S1E10 | How I Misunderstood the Real Point of Circumcision | Romans 2 Reflection - podcast episode cover

S1E10 | How I Misunderstood the Real Point of Circumcision | Romans 2 Reflection

Feb 12, 201912 minSeason 1Ep. 10
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Episode description

Have you ever considered how your external expressions of faith align with your inner convictions? Stripping away the facade of religious symbolism, we tackle the critical issue of hypocrisy in Christianity, drawing inspiration from Paul's poignant words in Romans chapter two. Our candid discussion cuts to the heart of what it means to live authentically in faith, challenging the tendency to prioritize outward markers over genuine inner transformation. We dissect the ancient rite of circumcision not just as a historical practice but as a metaphor for personal covenant-keeping today. This episode is a call to self-examination, inviting listeners to reflect on how their actions mirror their proclaimed beliefs.

As we journey through the complexities of spiritual and personal growth, we share a message of hope that often emerges from the ashes of adversity. It's a reassuring reminder that our darkest moments can set the stage for our greatest breakthroughs. We offer a moment of contemplation, giving our audience a chance to process the depth of our conversation. With heartfelt gratitude, we thank you for joining us on this explorative journey of faith and look forward to sharing more insights in the episodes to come. Let's continue to seek alignment between our words and deeds, fostering a faith that's as sincere as it is visible.*

*Description generated by AI.

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Transcript

External Markers in Christianity's Significance

Speaker 1

We might not trust in circumcision anymore , but there are certain things that we look to and point to . There are certain signs of a quote , unquote good Christian man or woman , and like if we got these bases covered , then we're good .

Speaker 2

Welcome to the move , hey , where we're vibing with the text . We're vibing in the book , in the book , 10 minutes at a time .

Speaker 1

Today we're closing out to Romans chapter two . It's been quite the journey . Paul's letting us have it , he's going hard and he's not letting up in this passage , so be sure to spend some time and read it . Have you read it ? I read it , you did .

Speaker 2

Did you guys read it yet ? Please read it .

Speaker 1

Go ahead , we'll right here . You can subscribe while we're waiting . By the way , we haven't said any of this yet , but feel free to also leave a comment below . We'd love to know . What do you think ?

Speaker 2

about this .

Speaker 1

Because we've been , especially in the last one we talked about some stuff that might push a few you know a little , to some uncomfortable places , and that's okay . Yeah , please interact .

Speaker 2

We'd love to hear it . We'd love to know .

Speaker 1

So cool , while you're doing that , let's go ahead and start that 10 minute clock and we'll go .

Speaker 2

What do you think about this one ? You know , I was just thinking what is Justin think about this one ?

Speaker 1

I'm thinking you know we stole some time from our viewers in last one . I feel like this one is going to be a quick one , because the message seems to be really , really , really quick , snappy , and I love it and it's a great message .

And it's like listen , paul saying you guys have been judging the Gentiles real , real harsh , not looking inward , and then he's really just he's coming at this whole hypocritical attitude .

Speaker 2

Yeah , because this is a summary of the first part of his great argument that you know I used to be inward . He's saying I used to be for my nation . Only I had great zeal . You know Philippians , chapter three , great zeal . You can read it . He talks about his former life and Judaism . He was advancing greatly before his peers .

It's like I had great zeal but then the Lord called me . I had to leave this to go with that . I was freed from this to that .

As we've talked , he turns around from inward outward to the nations and maybe , as he's going out to the nations , he does this sort of play where he sets them up and the Jews are thinking , yeah , go tell the nations how wrong they are . Then he turns back around and looks at them .

He's like if you weren't willing to die for them , you actually haven't accomplished the goal of the law . And they're like huh . So then this is a quick conclusion . He goes if you call yourself a Jew , are you a covenant keeper ? What do you mean ? Do you keep covenant , like you who say don't commit adultery ? Are you committing adultery ?

Are you who say don't rob God and you abhorrred idols ? Do you rob temples ? So it's like this overtones of the indictment of temple worship , I mean where they were elevating the gold of the temple above what it was actually saying . So there's this indictment that I hear here , this quick , snappy indictment .

Speaker 1

Yeah , I love that how he just puts the questions . Like you who teach others ? Like , do you not teach yourselves ? Like you spend so much time talking about all these things ? But then , like , where does it interact with your life , with your life lived ? Is there a transformation that's taking place ?

Why does it seem that , while you care so much about these things that you're just lacking in the area , oh , you're hitting close to home , because that's human nature . You're hitting close to home . We all do that , right .

Speaker 2

Don't we see that right now ? Yeah , in the intense political environment that we live in , there's always a cry for justice or liberty . Or I was wrong , or I was victimized , or you're positioning me as this At that , using these labels , and everybody's appealing to being wronged , right , like , oh , I've been wronged .

And then there's this sense of everybody's looking for the rightness of the thing , for justice . And then if we listen to Paul , paul saying hey , while you're pointing the finger at somebody else for what they didn't do , yeah , aren't you kind of doing the same thing ?

So how do you call yourself a Jew If you're not doing the things a covenant keeping Jew would do ? And then he throws in the question what it actually means to be a covenant keeping Jew .

Speaker 1

Which is which is crazy for them , because they they were not expecting this coming . There's this tradition , in kind of a fairsayical tradition , that says this that Abraham sits at the entrance of Gehenna or hell and permits no circumcised Israelite to descend therein , like that's how valuable circumcision was to them .

It was the thing that they banked on , like if you were male Jewish , circumcised , you were in .

Speaker 2

So then Paul comes , completely , shakes the thing and says in verse 25 , for circumcision , indeed , is of value , and then it's conditional . That's conditional . Circumcision is of value if you obey the law , so you're rightly a Jew circumcised , and if you obey the law .

But if you break the law , this sign of circumcision , it's of no value , because what it's supposed to signify doesn't actually follow in your life .

Speaker 1

So this thing is not the thing , no , and there's this daily reminder that this thing is not the thing . There's this daily reminder that you actually haven't kept the law . There's this sacrifice that goes on every single day . That's just like oh dang , I screwed up again .

Speaker 2

So this again hits close to home . What confession am I making with my mouth that I'm not actually living in my body ? What sort of marks do I bear that identify me as one thing but I'm living contrary to that identification , right , like full disclosure here . I got a tattoo of my family , my maternal last name , across my shoulder Right .

Oddly enough , it actually says Salvador , which means savior . Just kinda cool , right . But it's weird sometimes because when I see it in the mirror , is there times that the mark that I carry on my body I'm not actually living it out . So what good is this mark if I'm not actually leaving my mark with my body ?

So Paul's asking this question what good is this mark that you have if you're not actually leaving a mark with the body you carry ? Can you rightly be called a Jew ?

Speaker 1

What are some of those ways that we do that ? Because we trust in things . We might not trust in circumcision anymore , but there are certain things that we look to and point to . There are certain signs of a quote , unquote good Christian man or woman and like if we got these bases covered , then we're good .

Speaker 2

So it's really easy for me to , given the tradition I come from , it'd be really easy to say that we were really committed to making sure that we honored something like the Sabbath of the Lord , but the Sabbath , you know , on the seventh day , that was the idea of turning off electricity at a particular time , and not watching TV , not cooking making sure you

didn't do the dishes . So it's always what you didn't do is what marked you . But I just hear Paul saying , like what is it that you do do Right ? And then in my life outside of religion it was I was marked . I had strong political affiliations before Right .

I'm marked by this thing and I can proclaim it , but the ideals of what it's actually about I might not live out to it , but I'm proclaiming it . Then I had to take a liquid day and look in the mirror and see hypocrisy .

Speaker 1

I remember watching this news clip . Someone's being interviewed and I don't remember the full context of it , but the punchline of this video was and you can find it online If you Google the phrase she's like you know , I love Jesus , but I drink a little . I like that , and it's just like this , this .

It was very funny , I mean , it's just like God bless this woman's heart . But we like to point to things , whether it's the lack of consumption of alcohol or drugs . It's baptism Can I speak in tongues ? It's denominationalism , it's tithe paying , it's it ? I pray that I serve as a missionary , and we point to certain things as evidence of our standing with God .

Yeah , and we don't point to the only thing that actually matters .

Speaker 2

And here's where Paul's going . I'll give the game away . He's going to that . There's a righteousness that can actually come from our body . There's a righteousness that we need that actually doesn't emerge from the marks that we bear in our body Right , and that the mark that we will bear can't come by way of circumcision of the snip snip .

It can only come by way of the spirit . Yeah , right , so you actually have to .

This is all the way back to our first 10 minutes , after the intro , that there's an obedience of faith , yes , that a righteousness apart from us , apart from what we could do , has actually come , so that then the Jew is not just somebody who's marked physically , but somebody who's marked in the inside .

Speaker 1

Circumcision is a matter of the heart .

Speaker 2

Yeah , so that the glory , the honor and the immortality that's been demonstrated at the cross of Christ has done something here . Yeah , and I say yes .

Speaker 1

And we haven't used that language this far in our conversations . At least I can remember that . I can remember distinctly yeah , it's this new covenant language , this yeah , you got the law on the outside . That's cool , but the goal is to get that law on your heart so that it comes from the inside out and it infuses everything that you do .

And this is what it means when it's talking about the matter of the heart . The promise has always been , even from the Old Testament , that God is going to write that law on your heart . And the way that you do that is by being born again through that spirit . That spirit is the thing that comes . Notice this .

The circumcision is a matter of the heart , not by the letter , by the spirit .

Speaker 2

Yeah , I had to come to this conclusion that the markings that I carried on my body , my tattoos , or the markings I carried in my confession , my Christian confession , weren't enough for me to actually meet the requirements of what God would actually want and desire . And this is what Paul's saying . It's just not enough .

You have to be removed from that whole form of slavery where you're enslaved to the mark on your shoulder . I have to be this because of , or I have to be that because of , and then when I fall short , I fall into shame , like we spoke of earlier . Now I'm disconnected , and Paul's this whole language of that's not it .

The Future Improves After Adversity

No , that's not it .

Speaker 1

He's going to continue on this line of thought in the next chapter . Things are going to get a little bit worse before they get better , but they do get better , a whole lot better , a whole lot better , and so we'll leave you guys with an extra 20 seconds .

Speaker 2

Yeah , so press pause . We're taking some , we're giving you some time back . Thanks for kicking it with us . We'll see you in the next 10 minutes .

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