Running for School Meals (Because Learning Requires Eating)

[upbeat music] It's Quinn. Maybe you're like me, and sometimes you just spiral out, not just because everything is a lot all of the time, but because some part of you actually wants to do something about it. But, I mean, holy shit, where to start, right? Great news. We built an app for that. It's called What Can I Do? Even better news, it's free and it's fast. It takes just three clicks to start unfucking the world. Visit whatcanido.earth to get started for free.

[upbeat music] I think we can all agree that kids shouldn't go hungry, ever, really, but especially at school. Let's come back to that. You might feel right now like you are giving it everything you got, but when you look around, things feel kinda dark out there. So you, our listeners and readers and viewers across the country and across the world, want, demand, need more examples of fight and real progress you can actually see and touch and feel and taste.

And in these conversations, in partnership with our best friends at Run for Something, we're giving you exactly that. We're giving you what you asked for. Each of these episodes features two guests, both sourced from the Run for Something pipeline and graduating classes, so they are the next generation of American leaders. First, I'll introduce one young elected official at the state or local level who's made real measurable progress on an issue facing more Americans than ever before, like food.

And then in the same episode, I'll introduce a bright-eyed candidate currently running for state legislature, mayor, city council, or, like today's guest, school board, who's similarly hell-bent on attacking the same issue in their own hometown or state. And it matters because for all you know, it could be yours next. It could be yours already.

But progress is right on the other side because you and I will find out together what these folks are working on and why they have to do this work, where they've made progress, where they've struggled, and how their exact tactics and strategies can be transferred to other schools and districts and towns and cities and states across the country.

And so look, if these conversations we're doing inspire you, I would plead with you to do two things today, because it is not just their job to save us. It is our job to save us. There is only us. Number one, find out what office you, yes you, or some other young person you love and respect, can run for at runforwhat.net. You would be surprised.

Number two, find and support incredible candidates endorsed by Run for Something, but also other incredible organizations that we love and respect at whatcanido.earth. And last, number three, because of course there's a third one, please share these conversations with family members, school board, friends, whoever you want, frankly. 'Cause if you need it, and I definitely need it, many more people need these. So first up, again, today our topic, school lunches,

school breakfasts, after-school meals for students and teachers and parents and caregivers and whoever needs it. Because without food, teachers can't work. None of us can learn. Students can't learn. Kids can't learn. We can't sleep. We can't focus without food. And kids can't be expected to behave, whatever that means, when their blood sugar is completely unpredictable.

Now, some states and school districts have made schools a place of nourishment. Others are not there yet, to put it gently. And that's why we're here today. So introducing our incumbent. Jessica Spillers is a mom, a social worker, and an advocate with 12 years of experience in community mental health, the criminal justice system, and the government sector.

She currently serves on the school board in Manchester, New Hampshire, and was named the New Hampshire Young Democrat of the Year in May 2024. Jessica recently announced enough is enough and decided to run for mayor of Manchester. Next, we'll talk with our candidate. Talia Rodriguez is running for the Buffalo Board of Education West District to be the first Latina on the board. She's a mom, a nonprofit development professional, and community advocate.

She holds a law degree from the University of Buffalo and a master's in public policy. She has extensive experience advancing educational equity, food justice, and bilingual programs. Talia is committed to uplifting diverse families, supporting student-centered policies, and creating safe, inclusive schools that meet the needs of all children.

I'm so excited to introduce you to these two amazing humans who are fighting for kids to have food. For kids to have food. Let's find out what it means for their hometowns and for yours. [upbeat music] Jessica Spillers, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me, man. I'm excited to be here. Absolutely.

Can you tell us a little bit about who you are, what your current position is? Because you're a, what do they call it in, like, a dual threat, right? Shohei Ohtani. Like, you can pitch and hit. You're an alum of Run for Something, and you currently are on the school board, I believe, and you're also running for office as well, 'cause it's never enough with you, Jessica. No. Tell us about yourself.Yeah.

So you're right, I'm on the school board here in Manchester. I represent Ward 8, the largest ward in Manchester, and pretty diverse in terms of, like, socioeconomics. And so we have a little bit of downtown, we have a little bit out towards kinda Litchfield, Londonderry. People from around here will know those names, but kinda more rural, bigger houses kinda areas.

And then we have a suburban little neighborhood too. So I've been doing that since 23 was when I got elected. I ran against a well-known Free Stater. I'm not sure if folks know of that group or have heard of that group. Please edu- please educate us. So Free Staters are kinda this interesting group of, like, far right conservatives who have come to New Hampshire specifically because we don't have a lot of taxes, we don't infringe upon personal freedom in the way that they're kind of opposed to.

Right. Something like you might see in, like, New York, California, things like that. And they have quite literally moved here from out of state to try to influence the politics and to create kind of a community of like-minded individuals. [chuckles] And they have started infiltrating our government kind of at every level and trying to really take over. They have used some pretty deceptive means to do that.

And so it's an interesting group, but there was a well-known Free Stater in my area, and he ran for school board against me, and I beat him by about 200 votes, which is pretty handy in a municipal election, so- Hell yeah... he didn't get out there and start doing anything until a week or two before the election. I started seeing his lit everywhere. So it was a good race. It definitely taught me a lot, and been happy to be serving on the school board for Ward 8 here for the past two years.

I am now running for mayor against an incumbent, conservative incumbent, who was basically an unknown until he became our mayor. He's an interesting guy himself, but I am also a mom. I have three little kids, five, two, and nine months. Me and my husband have lived here in Manchester since 2016. He was in the Air Force, and when he got out, we moved back to the state.

This is where I kinda feel like I'm from. I'm a military brat, so my dad got stationed here in 2000, and they bought a house in Nashua, which is just south of here. We love Manchester, though. I mean, we really did choose to move to Manchester because it's a bigger city, because there's more diversity here, because there's more services here. So we're really invested in this town.

And yeah, I'm also a social worker, so I have a master's degree in social work with a specific focus on child and family welfare. I've worked in community mental health. I've worked in criminal justice with the public defender here in town.

And I should also mention I worked with the VA for a little bit in their homeless program, but now I work for the state as a SNAP program specialist, so the high view of SNAP, where we oversee the implementation and management of SNAP statewide within, like, local district offices. Not an interesting time to be doing that at all. All right, let's back up for a minute. Thank you for sharing all that, by the way.

I really appreciate the context, and now I'm just mad at all these people moving into New Hampshire to ruin everything. Tell me, what was the moment you decided to run? When our school district budget was cut by eight and a half million dollars. Yeah. Out of how much? Out of... So we had requested two hundred and forty-three or forty-six million dollars, and then we wound up with about two thirty-six, two thirty-seven million. And it doesn't sound like a lot, right?

And like percentage-wise- So much... you can kind of look at it and think, "Oh." But, I mean, a million dollars is, like, 15 to 17 teachers, and 15 to 17 teachers is basically an elementary school. So folks wanna argue about semantics and why we're all upset about it, it's because this is how we pay our staff, and this is how we support our students and their learning, and we just snatched eight and a half million dollars right out of their hands, and it's upsetting.

It's frustrating. So when I was sitting there when that budget was finalized, I just kind of thought to myself, "Well, this isn't us. What are we doing?" Did a lot of reflection, had a lot of discussions, and decided to go for it in July, and I filed on the second to last day. I love that. I'm always very interested in the moment where somebody says to themselves,

"All right, then what am I gonna do about it?" And, you know, my wife is a screenwriter. It's a little of a hero's journey where you're like, "Ah, okay." Right. "I'll, I'll do it. Okay." Yeah. Not that there aren't amazing people doing it, but like you said, you look around and you see what I affectionately call bad guys and go, "We can't cut that many teachers. That's it."

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That's readwise.io/quinn. Again, it's right in the show notes for you. Just click it. Please check out Readwise today, support our partners, and never forget what you read ever again. Which is not something I thought I'd ever say. [upbeat music] How did you get involved with Run for Something the first time and now? Back in '23, before I ran, I got this text on my phone,

and I thought it was a robo text, and it was just about, you know, some basic, like, political sorta questions, which is, like, not unusual in New Hampshire. We're all very involved in our state, and- Sure... you know, so to get something like that, you know, it's not terribly unusual. I'm doing it 'cause I'm just, like, kinda pissed off at the world, and- Sure...

the least I could do is, you know, fill out this stupid text form, right? Mm-hmm. And I get to this question where it said, "Would you ever consider running for office?" And at this point, some of the questions stopped having the check one for yes or two for n- you know, and I thought, "Oh, this is kinda weird. Maybe this is actually a person." So I sent sure- Uh-huh... as my answer to see, you know, if anything would happen, if it would come back as, like, an error or something. Right.

And it went through, and then I swear I got, like, maybe an hour later, a rep from Run for Something was on the phone with me asking- Love it... "Oh, you answered our thing and, you know, we were wondering if you really would consider it, and I'd love to connect with you more and talk about it." So Amanda Boulden and Amy Bradley were working for Run for Something at this point. They've both moved on, and now I'm working more closely with Manny Espitia. And yeah, and so that's how I got involved.

But Amy was really the person who set me up for success in that campaign and really showed me the ropes and got me connected to everything I needed just in terms of even just setting up, like, a website and stuff- Sure... like that that I've never done before and never- Yeah... thought about. And that's how I became involved with them. I love it. It's like you've seen the meme where, like, the guy's setting up the one domino and at the end it's, like, the fall of civilization. Yeah.

You know, you answered one text, and next you're, like, gonna be running for governor, and you're like, "What happened? I just answered one text." No, I said sure. You said sure. That's amazing. Meanwhile, you know, Run for Something crew is, like, lingering in your driveway just waiting for that to come through. You give them- No, they said that... an inch, man. They don't mess around. I love that. All right.

This couldn't be more timely, but that's why we're here. Every one of these issues I'm talking about with folks is super timely 'cause now we're fighting for the basics all over again. Let's talk about feeding children and specifically school lunches and, you know, we can bring breakfast into that. You worked with the state on Snap stuff.

Obviously, you're running for mayor of your city and you're directly involved in school board. You know this stuff really well. Correct me everywhere I'm wrong here. From my usually, like, semi-questionable research, I believe New Hampshire guarantees access to at least one school meal and prohibits lunchtime shaming for things like school debt, but lacks statewide universal free meals and has not adopted the Medicaid direct certifications.

Which means, like all the other Medicaid stuff, it's up to families basically to do the paperwork. Does that feel about right? Yes, that's about right. We don't have Medicaid direct cert, but what we do have is a direct cert through Snap. So if people- Okay... are on Snap, they're able to be directly certified for National School Lunch. They can always opt out.

Everybody can always... has that option here in the state, but the info is streamlined so that hopefully people are able to kinda get connected more quickly. Okay. Well, that's great to hear. I mean, you know, I don't know what the percentage is again before next week over the past couple years. You know, I think something like 30% of the folks who've had to drop off of Snap is because of paperwork issues. It's just... It's crazy. Yeah. It is a challenge.

So in your experience, you know, again, as a social worker with the school board running for mayor, there are examples of parts of policy in other states and cities where there's not big preemptions, where there are universal school meals, whether it's just lunch or lunch and breakfast, or where there's no debt or whatever it might be.

What are you targeting? What is sort of you feel is most achievable but will actually really move the needle the most as school board member and hopefully as mayor? Yeah. I mean, we have been pressing for Medicaid direct cert just because that reaches another group of students. Because as we think about these things on a higher level, just because you qualify for Snap or just because you qualify for Medicaid doesn't mean that you then also qualify for the other program.

So I think Medicaid direct cert could really help to bring in the fold families who would naturally qualify for National School Lunch Program, which I should say is not administered under Snap. That's actually administered in New Hampshire under the Department of Education. So we don't touch that in Snap, but have some understanding of it, right?

So I think that Medicaid direct cert and being a strong advocate for that would be crucial in terms of engaging the community and making sure kids are able to eat. That's just one, one thing. Yeah. We're all about trying to help folks understand that I'm not the biggest advocate for incrementalism, but at the same time, we have to fight for every piece of these things that, that we can get.

And every one of these things counts 'cause that's another kid that's not going hungry in their classroom or already hungry by the time they get to school, or leaving school and going, "Well, I haven't really eaten much and I'm not gonna get much at home," which is gonna be more and more true, obviously, over the next few weeks.

Stories, the personal side of this is really what inspires people to do more. Tell me a little bit about your experience, again, social worker with the school board, as a parent, seeing your kids' friends and such. What happens when a kid doesn't get breakfast or lunch or both? Well, they can't learnThey can't focus.

I mean, you think about yourself as an adult, you know, when it starts to be around lunchtime and you're working, like, I mean, I don't know about you, I get super distracted 'cause I'm like, I'm thinking about what I wanna eat, thinking about what I'm gonna go make. But there are increased behavioral issues. You think about that term hangry, right? Like people are hungry and they're angry, and they can't focus.

So kids have increased outbursts in school, especially younger kids, I would say. So, you know, I think about my own daughter, and unfortunately she also gets hangry. So, [chuckles] Oh, mine, m- mine are... Yeah, every day. Yep. You know, as soon as it gets around to mealtime, you know, if people are upset or they're, like, responding kind of more emotionally than they normally would to something, like, it is definitely because they're hungry.

Like, when you don't have those basic needs met, you can't focus on higher needs.

You know, there's this thing in social work called Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and that is what I think of most frequently as a social worker 'cause I think- Mm-hmm... it's just one of the most helpful basic concepts, and I think it's the easiest way to explain w- why we do things this way, why we address- Mm-hmm... the basic needs first, things like housing, things like food, things like, you know, just physical safety, because those are the bottom of the pyramid, right?

And then you go higher and higher towards self-actualization, and you start to see things like purpose or work or s- education. You know, they start to fall in those categories. So we have to ensure that our students have food at breakfast and lunch so that their bellies are full, so that they can focus, so that they can reach those higher needs.

Because those higher things above the basic needs are gonna allow them to make progress in their own lives, whether that's, like, financial progress, you know, being able to get a good education and go to college and get a good job, or just make progress in terms of, like, their day-to-day grades and, you know, focusing in class or participating in the discussion, being able to problem solve.

So if we're always constantly in this backlog where we're just addressing basic needs, all we're doing is we're fighting for survival. Sure. We're just fighting for survival day to day. And when it's like that, I mean, your mindset, you just literally can't think about anything else. Let's pull the string a little further because that's missing a meal or two, and we all know how that feels like, even though, you know, I'm enormously privileged, I'm gonna get a meal.

But we're all a lot closer to Snap than we are to being a multimillionaire or billionaire. When that is chronic, even a few times a week for some kids, if not more, and those behavioral issues become chronic- Mm-hmm... that's gonna compound in the other way as well, and that is gonna affect, I assume, you know, their standing in school- Right... their ability to contribute to activities.

Now they're falling behind in, in some classes, I imagine. Do you see much of that? So we have issues in terms of our just test scores, right? We're not really performing well compared to the rest of the state, and I do think that there is a connection. I know that there's kinda las- lingering sort of issues from COVID.

People don't wanna admit that, you know, COVID did some pretty big damage in terms of kids' progress in public education and in school, but it does compound on that. And, you know, kids fall asleep too. If you're hungry and you don't have enough and that's, you know, day after day, you start to lose energy, and kids will fall asleep.

So it's, it's an uphill battle, and it's definitely something that if we as a community can get behind and can do something about, we should. These kids are our future. They're gonna take care of us when we're older. Sure. So I want them to be well prepared for that, and I want them to have a happy life in the future, you know, and be able to thrive here. Sure. It seems pretty basic. Sorry, I just go off on this...

There's a few issues that just, like, rage Hulk, Hulk-wise, and I'm trying to not do that, so I don't keep you here all day. Who are your local and, if applicable, state allies, other folks on the school board, in the city, on the state level, advocacy groups operating in New Hampshire for this specific issue?

We have New Hampshire Food Bank is one really large nonprofit. They actually supply most of the food pantries throughout the state. Okay. And so they're based right here in Manchester, so they're a huge ally in this.

New Hampshire Hunger Coalition is a group of advocates who specifically, you know, are in Concord most of the time speaking with legislators and representatives, trying to move forward and move the needle on these things like Medicaid Direct Cert or just ensuring now that people have food and that we're doing something as a state- Yeah...

to address that reality of November 1st when benefits may not be distributed. So, you know, there's still one or two days, and I'm looking at my calendar because I'm like, "The clock is ticking-" Yeah... "in my head for somebody to, to get something done there." But I haven't looked at the recent LSRs that have been put out in terms of our state legislators to see if there's any one particular that we may wanna follow up on in terms of food security.

But I know that in Manchester we have around 30 state reps and state legislators, so, you know, we need to be all working together to ensure that in particular kids are affected. Such a metaphor for my life. Just everything falling apart. Those are the folks in particular that I think of as being kind of the strong allies in the community.

There's a lot of smaller, like, churches and places that have food pantries that when I think about people kinda advocating and doing the work, like, they kinda come to mind. You know, places like Fit 1269, who, you know, they're a couple of local organizations that have either provide meals or provide food for folks. Well, hopefully they are getting the funding they need right now.

What other, again, school board, city level, and even state level, are there other school boards, school districts, cities, states that you're looking to going, "Oh, this is not just a piece of policy they were able to pass again," whether it's Medicaid DC or whatever it might be.No lunch debt but the actual strategy for them to have gotten that done that you are like, "Oh, that could be a blueprint for us." Anything like that out there?

'Cause that's really one of the big things we're trying to help folks with is look and say, "This has worked in multiple cities," and not lowest common denominator, but these are the transferable pieces of something that's worked in a variety of cities of sizes and shapes, and here's how you could take it to your school board or city council or whatever.

I- So I'm curious how you're looking at that. Yeah. So one thing that I think about is just the schools themselves and, like, being able to offer breakfast at a variety of settings, right?

Not necessarily having kids have to be in a cafeteria at a certain time. You know, offering after the bell in the classroom is actually more feasible and a bit more successful- Okay... than having kids, you know, show up even earlier to an already early start time, and then that way they're able to, you know, have a muffin, have a quick bowl of cereal or something in the classroom, and then get back to work.

And then there's not that drag of, "Okay, everybody sit down. Everybody eat. Everybody walk to your classrooms." You don't have to have the extra staff to manage that. It's just the teachers in the room or the assistants in the room who are helping with that, and I think that's been pretty successful in its own pounds. I think in Nashua there was a, a school that instituted that saw an increase in participation, so definitely I think one way that people can look at that is to just adjust.

And that doesn't require legislation or anything. Yeah. Like, that just requires you working with your school district- Sure... to get that in place for people. I think as well, you know, we in Manchester have food pantries right in our schools. Not every single one, but a couple in kinda key locations. I think in particular of an elementary school downtown, Beech Street.

They partnered with the New Hampshire Food Bank to open a food pantry right there. They also have clothes too, and they have a small clothing closet now too, which is amazing. That's awesome. You know, it's open after school, you know, during pickup. So I mean, families can come and they can just, like, you know, pick up their kid and then go pick up a few things, you know, for dinner that night or whatever. Sure. So that people are eating and, you know, we can make it convenient for them.

They don't have to travel to a different side of town, and that's one thing too that people can do that's real easy is just think about where people are already at. Like, where are they already coming, and that's where you should be. That's where you can offer these things. I love that. You know? So.

That matters so much when so much of our economy at this point, or what used to be our economy, is hourly service workers. You know, if they have to take another 45 minutes to get across town- Right... by the way, whether they can afford a car or not, again, we can keep pulling this string, it might just not happen. Even if you have help, it's hard.

Like, if you don't have good public transportation, which, I mean, we have a bus system here in Manchester. It's not the best. We make do with it, right? I've had to ride it myself. Yeah. At one point in time, we only had one car. But it just, it adds an extra step to everything. Yeah. And people may say, "Well, we'll skip it for tonight or whatever." The kids just can't do it. Yeah.

They can't do that bus ride. No, I love that idea of- So-... consider where are the kids and the parents already gonna be. You know, where do they have to be? Which is where they're probably gonna be, and like you said, in the classroom, dropping off or picking up their kids from school. If they're not on the bus or the bus doesn't work for them or whatever, that is, like, step one. And work with organizations who are already doing the work.

Like you said, New Hampshire Food Bank, th- this is what they do all day long. So I- That's right... I really love that. Okay, how you feeling about the election? I'm feeling pretty good. It's- Okay... an interesting election. You know, like I said, he's an incumbent, and it's not necessarily something that people expected because I filed so late. Yeah. But it's been good.

I mean, it's important, minimally it's important for people to have a choice and for people to have to make a decision. Flat out. We can't just hand it to people. That's how you end up in, you know, autocracy- Mm-hmm... and monarchy. Mm-hmm. Right? It's- And if folks don't know, I'll find the statistic. I don't remember where I saw it. It might've come from Run For Something or someone like that.

The number of local and even state seats that don't go contested at all every single year, it's incredible. Like, it, you- we're the dumbest people f- to not do that. Like you said, you have to at least make people make a choice. And I feel like the word has gotten out there. We've been really focused on just having a robust communication with the community- Great...

and trying to, you know, knock on doors, meet people, again, kinda where they're at. Hosting events around town that are at parks or at local breweries or whatever it might be, even in people's homes, at a church. So it's incredible. I have a group of amazing people who have volunteered their time and energy and their skills to help with this campaign, uh, because it's a huge undertaking, and I definitely could not do it by myself.

A lot of credit goes to a lot of other people for making this happen and for making it as, as much of a challenge as to our incumbent. Yeah. It's been fun. It's been good. We just had our last debate last night. Oh, nice. So we're, you know, in the final stretch here until Tuesday, and then all the cards will be out on the table- Yeah... and we'll know what happened. It's been great, and I am, I'm really pleased with that.

I'm just happy, like you said, we're just giving people a choice. And when they look at me and they look at the incumbent, I mean, we don't necessarily look that different because we're both fairly young. We both have young families, you know, and you can't just look at somebody and go, "Oh, I'm gonna vote for him because he's younger"- Yeah...

or, "I'm gonna vote for them because they've been doing this forever, and I think"- Sure... "they have a better pulse on what's happening." I mean, I have lived here since 2016, and he has not. So there are some differences, but really you can't just go by the cover on this one. You gotta open up the book and read the pages. If only more people read the pages. I love that, and that takes me to my last question.

What is a book you would recommend for all of our listeners? It could be something you're reading to your children, it could be about, like mine, dragons and something that is not related to right now. Anything you want.Well, we love Halloween in this house. It should be a national holiday. It is, like, our favorite. So my daughter discovered this small series. We call them the creepy books.

Creepy Carrots, Creepy Underwear- Awesome... and Creepy Crayon. And- Love it... those are just, like, so fun. They're kinda silly. I think Creepy Underwear is probably my favorite. Wait, I feel like I know these. My kids are older now. Hold on. I'm looking them up. And they're just annoyed by me all the time, but I'm pretty... I know exactly what Creepy Underwear is, 100%. I didn't realize it's a whole series now. That's awesome.

Yeah. Yeah, there's Creepy Carrots and Creepy Crayon and those are... If you're looking for something fun just to take your mind off things, those are great. And I love Creepy Underwear 'cause there's kind of a twist at the end. Mm-hmm. And I won't spoil it. Don't ruin it. I know there's every...

I mean, Little Blue Truck, I think, had a Halloween one when we were doing- Yeah. Like, there... Every option. Yeah. Well, that's awesome. Thank you so much for your time after your debate last night. Oh my gosh. Really appreciate it. And yeah, thank you for stepping up to do this. We gotta feed children. Yeah. This is a basic thing.

I don't know why it's even in the mix, honestly, but we'll do everything we can here locally and make sure that doesn't happen. That is all we can do. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. Go get 'em, okay? [upbeat music] Talia Rodriguez, thank you for joining us on this fine drizzly morning, and welcome to the show. Thanks for coming. Thank you so much. It's a privilege to be here. Oh, you're very kind.

You're very kind. Talia, tell us a little bit about who you are, what you're running for, and where that jurisdiction is. Absolutely. So I am a working class mom. I am from the city of Buffalo, New York, up by Canada. So I tell people I can see Canada from my house. And I am a graduate of SUNY Buffalo Law School. I have a master's degree in social policy and a political science degree from St. John Fisher University.

And I also am a lifelong volunteer, and I'm extremely committed to democracy and excited to be a candidate. And we can talk about why I'm so excited for this privilege, but again, I am running for school board in Buffalo, New York, and I am running for the district in which I was born, which is called the West District.

That's so awesome. I love folks who come back to that. I spent a little time in central New York. Uh, obviously you're, uh, above central New York. I went to, uh, Colgate University. Maybe even colder, but who can know? But a lot of love for it. My wife is from Rochester, so got the whole thing. Tell me a little bit about your district. Yeah, absolutely. The district kind of represents my life story. It's extremely eclectic.

So I am Puerto Rican, Irish, and Sicilian. Yeah, that'll do it. Okay. Sure. I'm a persistent person, and as a result, I'm really proud to represent the West District. It's incredibly diverse. I think at one point we were the most linguistically diverse zip code in New York State. We had beat out Queens for a bit. It's so fun. There's about 47,000 people in the district, and, you know, cultures, traditions, experiences all really drive and have historically driven the district.

I know we're gonna talk about food, but it's an incredibly food-oriented neighborhood and, you know, it's full of people who work really hard. [upbeat music] It's Quinn. Maybe you're like me, and every second of every day of my life, I have every intention of doing something, and I'm almost there. And then life, work, kids, whatever.

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[upbeat music] And I said, "I wanna work as hard as my neighbors," and I think that's one of the most powerful things I've said throughout this election cycle. I really love that. I really love that. I saw another quote recently, which again seems so obvious, nothing is obvious at this point, that said, "Our solutions to our problems are in our neighborhoods."

And it really is true, and we need that cl- more than ever. Let's pause for a quick second. How did you get hooked up with our friends at Run for Something? So I am a type of person who persistently goes online and looks for opportunity. Opportunity has never looked for me. I look for opportunities. [laughs] So I had the privilege of participating in a group called Latinas Represent, um, and it was an incredibly transformative experience.

And in doing so, they really educated us about different organizations that are out there that are explicitly designed to encourage Americans to participate fully in democracy as candidates. So Run for Something was one that they identified and, you know, I was fingers crossed. Like I said, I'm a blue collar girl. When I received the endorsement, I was h- so humbled.

It was one of those big moments, and for me, it's just been a dream this entire time. I love it. That is awesome. Well, we're 10 seconds into this, and it seems like you already fully deserve it, so you have my vote. Very excited about that. So at what point did you decide, "I need to run for school board in the Buffalo school system"?

One of the reasons I'm running is because when I was younger, my entire family, both Latino and Sicilian, was like, "Hey, you know, you have a lot of questions."We may not be able to answer all those questions, and I had a lot of ideas. So honestly, I really wanna answer that question saying my entire life. My grandmother marched with Martin Luther King. She was at the I Have a Dream speech with my dad.

She had a third-grade education, was really passionate about democracy and about the transformative energy that communities can bring democracy. So I come from a family of doers, of people who, when things weren't going right for them or they thought they needed to be improved, stepped forward and started to lead.

So for me, part of my candidacy is an acknowledgement of the legacy of my grandmother, who literally put her life on the line so that people who are working class people who come from diverse backgrounds, women can fully participate. So honestly, probably before I got here, as soon as she touched down in Washington, D.C. from that bus in Harlem, kind of it was written. Like, I'm just, for me, a dream actualized for her. That's amazing.

I'm gonna go cry for about 10 to 15 minutes. I'm a real tough New Yorker, though. I- Sure. Yeah. Totally. This is amazing. All right. Talia, so I'm gonna ask you this. My wife is a screenwriter. There's this idea in movies and TV, it's called the inciting incident, which is something in, in the first five, 10 minutes or so that changes your main character a little bit and sets them on their journey.

Something they can't say, they at least struggle with saying no to. Was there some sort of inciting incident where you're like, "It's time for me to run. It's time for me to step up and do this"? 'Cause you've got this, all these credentials. It's amazing. I can't even list them all. When were you like, "This is the position, this is what I wanna do. Not city council, not Congress.

I'm gonna start with school board. I'm gonna go now"? So in the West Side, or in politics in New York, in my experience, I say, "You don't pick them, they pick you." I was talking with some of the people in my community. I'm a columnist, actually, and I write for the Latino papers in Western and Central New York. And I came to someone and I was like, "Hey," you know, I always harbored this desire to serve, right?

And I came to someone and I was like, "Okay," someone from within some of the communities that I organize, and I was like, "You know, I'm really interested to write about the new school board candidate." And they're like, "Well, what are you talking about? That's you." I was like, "Wow." So I confided in this person that I was interested in serving, right? Right.

And then all my entire professional career, I have worked alongside- Mm-hmm... or part of the Buffalo Public School School Board. Okay. But I think for me, because of my cultures, there have to be elders, there have to be consensus- Mm-hmm... there has to be my neighbor saying, "Hey, it's you," right? Because if not, I probably wouldn't have been as confident to identify myself as a candidate. So, you know, it was really the confidence of my neighbors who were like, "You know, you're the expert.

You're the one that can do this. You are the one." And I prayed on it. I really did. I talked to my son, who's eight years old. He was seven at the time. You know, the people in my life, and also honestly, because of some of the identities that I carry, I felt that I needed to do it. I think people, examples of working class women who are fully engaged, who believe in the structures of democracy and are willing to fight for them.

So a little bit of my neighbors nudging me along, and a little bit of my internal desire to represent the communities that I'm really proud of. And then also the Latinas Represent class, I came in, right? And everyone was like, "Well, where are you with this?" And I was like, "Well, I am a potential candidate." And I left that experience after meeting women from all over the country determined and ready, like, "I am the candidate. I am the person."

And if I am elected, I will become the first Latina in history to serve on the Buffalo Public School Board. Incredible. That is so awesome. I love it all. I was wondering if there was like, a moment where you're like, "Ah, I don't know. Is this me? All of the, my neighbors and my community want me to do it. Is it me, or..." But it sounds like you really thought it through.

You had a serious discussion with your then seven-year-old, which is always important. I find that my discussions with my children, I'll be like, "This is it. They're ready. I'm gonna have a big talk with them." And 30 seconds in, they're like, "Is there a snack? Is there a snack that's gonna be provided during this family meeting?" It's always the snacks. Absolutely.

So my son is very food-oriented, but my son also has been on a journey since he's been five to make Latino-centered content that's been educational. Yeah, he has his own YouTube channel. And I think that some of the conversations I've had with him about representation in curriculum, about how he feels about his classroom, the confidence he has in himself and his school, one of the wisest people I know.

That's awesome. My children, sometimes they're the wisest people I know, and other times you just go, "What is happening? I don't understand. There's a trail of everything everywhere. I can see every sport you've played in the past week along the floor." Anyways, this is not about my kids. This is really exciting. Okay, so w- we briefly mentioned snacks. Can we talk about food for a minute?

So the structure of these episodes is taking, with the way things are on the federal level and the world and capitalism, it's not a level playing field, but we are really fighting for basics that a lot of folks, like your ancestors marched and fought for over the past 100 years. We're fighting for, again, really the basics as, as much as we can. These fundamental infrastructure that have provided whatever safety net this country provides for some people.

And that includes food, which food at schools, universal free school lunches, and if possible, breakfasts, and if possible, relatively healthy versions of those with no-Shame around lunch debt, if not no lunch debt at all. All these things are pieces that various states and school boards have been working on. And of course, you know, it's a complicated country, 50 different versions.

But there are some really transferable pieces of state and local policy that certain states have picked up on, certain ones have not. There's some federal stuff with the Medicaid direct work so that there's not too much paperwork for families, this and that. New York State does pretty well, which is really great, right? But

because it does pretty well, I'm gonna let you off the hook on a little bit for that and talk a little bit about what's coming up, which is that there's a lot of kids and families who get their food from school and might not have breakfast at home, might not have dinner at home because their parent is an hourly service worker.

If whatever it may be, they don't have time to pick them up, they don't have time to get food, they don't have money to get food. That's gonna become much harder in the next couple, few weeks. As someone who might get elected next week to the school board in Buffalo as the first Latina to the school board,

how are you now forced to think forward about how you might help feed some of these kids in the Buffalo school system when SNAP is cut and not funded and prices are rising and all of that stuff? That's a great question. So most of my professional work has been alongside Buffalo Public Schools, understanding, better defining, and strengthening what we call the food security system.

What you acknowledge is that informal kind of net of where is the food, how can people access it, and who is it made available to? So I'll kind of answer that questions in parts. You did an absolutely eloquent job of indicating that the Buffalo Public Schools and many public school systems are the largest driver of urban nutrition, right, for our children.

So what I've been trying to do is reframe people's understanding that our school is not just educating our children, it's nourishing our children, too, you know, both their bodies and their character. So one of the things that I am always an advocate about, right, is when we're asking or when we're uninviting our children from the classroom, and they need a time to take a pause, whether that be on their own volition or because their teacher suggested it, what is their food plan?

I love that. It's a question I feel like needs to be asked. I also feel that when we're talking to our young people and they're not in their best spirit or they're not performing their best, we should ask them, "When is the last time you had a hot meal?" How do you ask that without them feeling shame? Is there a structure to the day or the moment? Is it asking them privately? Is it a particular trusted teacher or administration official or whoever it might be who

can ask that question and get a real answer for them? Because, you know, my other conversation, a woman running for... who's on the school board up in Manchester, New Hampshire, and is running for mayor, uh, and has been a social worker, and listeners will have just heard that conversation. You know, she talked about a lot of the same things, which is like, I'm sure your kid's the same way, which is, you know, when they get hangry, as everybody calls it, right?

And it affects your ability to learn, your ability to sleep, to pay attention, your behavior. It happens to all of us adults, but we understand what's happening, and I'm lucky enough to have food, and my kids are lucky enough to know they have food.

But some of these kids don't know when, and they might feel some shame about it. How do we ask that question? 'Cause again, I unfortunately, you know, wanna help arm as many teachers and parents and officials and parents of those friends' kids to be able to comfortably and safely ask that question to get a real response from the kid in the weeks to come.

So your perception is absolutely appropriate. You know, I think those questions are best asked in private and by adults or trusted agents in the school that the children or, and our students have a rapport with. So, you know, kids in the West Side are pretty blunt. They're gonna tell you if they don't like your shirt. So [chuckles] they're gonna tell you, they're gonna tell you a lot of times if they've eaten. And, you know, sometimes they are not as forthcoming about the challenges at home.

You touched on something that was kind of my second point, is when we look at food security, we have to consider what is the state of food access for the adults who are coming to the school? How is whatever resources are available to the students, how are they communicated to the adults? You know, how are we including the adults in the school in the conversation and not making assumptions that because people are employed full-time, they don't need food assistance?

So for me, the schools are a great place of resource, but you have to deliberately think about the different portions of the school community that need food support and, to your point, how they might access it with dignity. So we have about 150 food pantries in the city of Buffalo. Wow, that's awesome. My neighbors get to it.

There's somebody preparing food right now for others, and that's one of the things I've been so humbled about coming into food work is that many people are called to this work, and there are new food pantries that are starting, you know, food cupboards. But one of the things that I mentioned previously is that I have one of the most linguistically diverse zip codes in the city. Mm-hmm. So how do you say food pantry in some of the languages that our students speak?

And then how do we socialize people to understand that, to your point, the food is a blessing and that there shouldn't be shame around it. So that's a process that I'm constantly thinking about. The other things that I would say that I'm really proud of when it comes to Buffalo is I had a role in building out a program here that has been implemented in other places called Community Schools.

Have you ever heard of it? I'm not sure, but I don't remember, like, dinner last night, so, so please go ahead.That is always the safest answer, and count on me to say that Oh, perfect. I- if there's anything that I've learned from, like being married to the world's most incredible, brilliant wife, and then having three children who tell me that, like, the sky is green and that I'm wrong, all I say is, "I don't know.

I don't know," right? Right. It's so much easier. Um, it's so humbling to be able to say you don't know, but absolutely. So community schools is this idea that really harks back to the historical fabric of what school is, that school is a place of resource. So we were opening up the schools on Saturdays, you know, paying our teachers and administrators to be there, but then also serving hot breakfast and hot lunch, and then caveat for the adults too, right?

So you're not just a kid that's walking in, your grandma, your grandpa, your tio, your big sister. My first year of project managing that project alongside with the administrators and the team that I was on, we fed tens of thousands of people within the schools, and because of that structure, you know, parents were able to meet teachers outside of, you know, parent-teacher conference.

They're able to play basketball. The children are able to knit and do all these really cool things, like basically turning the school into a community center. Mm-hmm. But for me, who was a summer lunch kid, for me, who went to the store with, like, actual food stamps, like kids now...

And you'll hear people in my generation say this, and I don't know if your lived experience reflects this, but kids now have a card. We used to have these dollars. Mm. Like, these stamp dollars and, you know, I don't mean to go off on a tangent, but I asked my family, my Latino family, "Who were these men on the food stamp?"

Because my feeling at eight years old on the porch was like, "Okay, well, if we can figure out who these guys are, maybe I can get my stamps earlier than my neighbors." Mm. 'Cause I was aware that we were all getting them at the same time, and we were all rushing to the grocery store at the same time.

So I have the lived experience of being supported by food programs, and for me, when it was time to project manage, I was like, "Hey, we're putting free lunch and free breakfast on the flyer, and that's gonna make people come out." Since then, the Buffalo Public Schools have added produce, so this c- upcoming weekend at Buffalo Public Schools, you can go and you can have a free breakfast, you can have a free lunch.

There's, you know, a variety of enrichment activities, and then you also can access free produce, so there are different food opportunities that are layered onto that program, and that's just an example.

And again, I think you acknowledged it's very unique to New York State that we have all of these places that we can access food, and I have great empathy for people in rural areas 'cause my mom's father is from a dairy farm, and people who, you know, things are further out 'cause I really represent a district that is very high density. So, you know, if you don't have food, there might be four or five neighbors within 30 seconds of you that might be able to support.

So, you know, thinking as a policy person, as someone who's policy-minded, I have great empathy for people who are more socially isolated and don't have those infrastructures to really provide the backbone for their food access. I'm overwhelmed. That is one of the coolest things ever. We're gonna have a whole email side conversation about the community Saturday school thing, about how you got it through the budgets, h- how that works, 'cause that's pretty special.

That's really awesome, and it is so important to not forget the adults, right? Whether it's the parents, the grandparents, the teachers, the support staff, whoever it might be.

I mean, you know, I'm in Williamsburg, Virginia. We're among every version of armed forces you can think of, and before a month ago, before the shutdown, before SNAP, the food banks were traditionally, you know, a quarter to a fifth people in the armed services, which is completely insane, but in itself is only gonna get worse, and we cannot forget the adults, right?

Who will often go without a meal for their children, but if there's not a meal to go without, then we need more structural setups like you described, which is pretty amazing. Okay. You get elected to the school board. It's all going great. What is your first intersection of achievable and, like, real measurable outcome?

And it can be food related or not because, again, I know you get a lot of support from New York State, but considering the current circumstances, considering what Buffalo might be dealing with, w- what are you really arming yourself for here to go into?

Well, I think that for me as someone who's gonna be first of few, because there are other people around me who have been the first of few, there is gonna be a huge learning curve in terms of the systems within the school board because, again, I've served on the nutrition committee, I've served on the garden committee, you know, I've been a volunteer mom, but it's a really different lens when you're reviewing the budget.

So, you know, I would be remiss if I didn't acknowledge that there are some learnings that I need to spend time to invest in just to learn more about the process. And I also think that when you're the first of few, no matter what your identity is or what infrastructure you're coming into, you sometimes face a little bit more criticism because you're the first of few.

So for me, I am all about diligently preparing, so I really wanna spend time to learn from the board members that are there all of the things that as a... I consider myself a junior board member, need to know, having the time to talk with them. Before I get to work though, I think the other thing I need to do is call the people that helped me get there.

I think there's a feeling a lot of times that when you're elected to office, they never see you again until- Mm-hmm... it's time to get, be elected again. And I have told my neighbors, I said, "Hey, when it's time to make a vote, I hope you pick up the phone."'Cause I'm gonna call you. No, I'm not making these decisions on my own. I am also a very data-driven person.

I love the data. Yeah. So I love culture, I love the arts, I love sports, I love all of the stories and the history, but for me, I am a very data-driven person. So there are some data points that I hope that we can work around to identify collection opportunities for. So one of the things I'm really passionate about knowing more about is our Buffalo Public School students' work.

Mm-hmm. A lot of my seniors, my juniors, my sophomores, like my nana, who was Sicilian, they leave their high schools and they go right to work. At this time, per my knowledge, we are not collecting data about where they work, how much they work, or what those work environments are like for them. And I am really passionate about identifying areas like that where we can bring that data into our decision making, and it can help illuminate the social realities of our students in a different way.

I love that, and I love, just to backtrack for one second, the way you said you love sports and theater and stories and all that, but you really love the data. And you are always gonna be most successful when you really marry the two, right? 'Cause cold, hard data, some people are never gonna be moved by, and a single story can be written off as anecdotal.

But when you really find a way to marry those, so you collect all this data, you understand what percentage of kids are leaving, what demographics are leaving to go to work, where are they working, like you said, what are the conditions? How late are they working? Are they getting food there, or do they have enough money to take home to then get food? Are they missing a meal? How often do they get paid? All these different things.

Again, you understand, like, what a student is going through, and understanding their whole day and their whole night really can go such a long way to nourishing them better, right? And I love that. That is such an instrument, I hope, for you all to help those kids even more, and their parents, right? Yeah. And understand how they help us. I think, you know, when we think about the health infrastructures.

Also, I wanna collect a lot more data about alumni. We have amazing Buffalo Public School alumni who do so much.

So I could be here forever talking about data points, but we have the YRBS, which is the Youth Risk Behavior Study, and one of the things that sticks out to me when I talk about the experience of our students, specifically the middle schoolers, when they were asked, almost 20%, 18.5% of them indicated that they were left at birth or they were left by a birth parent for a reason such as some of the things we know manifest in our community.

So having almost 20% of our kids have been impacted by the justice system, 18.5% having been left by a birth parent, I feel that just kind of speaks to how we have a responsibility to nourish their souls, their entire character, right? Their academics, their health, but very specifically their character.

And if they're working after school and they're coming to school and they're valedictorians with many of our students are, you know, maybe new Americans or first-generation students, if we have that data, we're better able to thank them, and that's really a lot of what we need to be doing because they work incredibly hard, you know.

And for me, as an adult, it's important that I acknowledge their energy and effort, especially in economy. Oh, yeah, 100%. It really just helps build such a comprehensive, fundamental understanding of the community, right?

Because the best programs might be great, and a lot of what we try to do is find out what are programs or policies at the school board level, which is different in so many states, at the city council or board of supervisors or state level, that are transferable to the most places, right? The elements of it, of a particular policy, have worked in enough different places that we know that the transferable parts can go to more places.

But if you don't understand, if you don't make an effort to understand who your community is, right, which can change over time, especially when it's as wildly diverse as yours, th- that policy might not be applicable, or it might cost a lot more than you thought, or there might not be much uptake because of some cultural reason, you know? Before COVID, one of the biggest reasons, you know, you saw vaccine hesitancy in places like East Africa was simply religious and cultural beliefs, right?

The messenger really does matter, and understanding who you're talking to really does matter, and that can, yeah, go as far as food and work and what beliefs are about how much someone should work and when you should start working, because prior generations, you know. Yeah, that is fundamental. I totally agree with you. So I studied comparative politics at St. John Fisher, and one of my passions is comparing, you know, is understanding, to your point, what are similar districts?

How are we performing alongside them? What are the things that we can borrow and, to your point, localize? And how might my neighbors respond to some of those efforts? So a lot of what you're saying is consistent with my desire to run. You know, I really wanna bring my skills to service and say, "Hey, you know, I'm willing to spend hours and hours talking and reading and visiting other districts to understand how we can serve our students better."

And I think it's with an understanding that no matter how well we're doing, either a- as Americans or as people, we can always improve. That is a fundamental feeling that I have about our nation and about myself and my family. We can always improve if we're diligent. Amazing. I love it. We might have to come back and do a version two after you get elected here. Let me ask you the last two questions. Okay. They're slightly more fun. What is a book you would recommend to our listeners?

And it can be anythingFrom a book you read to your children to your fiction at night, like me, it could be dragons or my books at night tend to be a thousand years ago or a thousand years in the future. Nothing to do with right now. Anything. When you asked that question, my first answer was the Bible. Okay. I am a person that is really motivated by faith, and I try to use it as the core for my family values.

I think it is a very discouraging time for some. And, you know, every book, no matter what version you read, you're gonna have feedback on. But for me as an adult, when I've needed inspiration or when I've needed pause, 'cause again, I'm Irish, Sicilian, and Puerto Rican, and that is very, that is a lot of energy, right?

I look to books that were inspired by faith. So if it's not the Bible, it, read or learn about other cultures or other faiths outside of your own. You know, that's one of my passions. There's a church on every block in the West Side, they say. They're pocket churches. There are lassems in my neighborhood. So that was my gut answer. I read poetry, too. Ooh. So that's my more whimsical side. Okay.

I- There's a Russian poet that was my favorite poet. I can't say her last name. Anna Akhmatova, I think it is. Great. I w- I am a very cultured person. But that was my first instinct, and I try to go with my first instinct as an answer. I love both of those. I am an atheist monster, but I studied comparative religion in college, and I've got bookshelves full of that stuff over there because, you know, uh, everybody's parents are complicated and great, but my parents' whole deal was like,

"Just learn about them all. Just understand what makes people do what they do. You don't have to subscribe to anyone. Do whatever, because this is w- you know, these are among the most influential both moments in history and reasons for history throughout." So it's great to study political science, which I also loved doing.

Not in my research. I may have answered differently if I knew that, but thank you. Oh, no, not at... No, but that's the point. I got, I got a Bible right over there. Like, I don't... A- again, like, I'm an atheist monster. Same time, it's so important. This is why people do what they do, you know?

Whether it's the Western side, which is, a, you know, slightly more structural, or it's folks in India or Buddhists who, like, it's just the way you live your life, right? It's not like church on Sunday. So that stuff is so important. But I also love poetry. That's very exciting. We're gonna have to talk. We're gonna actually exchange some poetry books. I'm pretty excited. Thank you for allowing me to answer that way.

I really appreciate your insight. Oh, no, a thousand percent. Again, we could do this all day. Last one. Even more fun. What's a playlist you can't get enough of right now? Oh. Mm-hmm. I listen to, and I don't wanna be cliche, but I listen to a lot of Bad Bunny. I- How is that cliche? He's incredible. 'Cause we're talking about food, there's a lot of energy around Bad Bunny. Great.

Being connected to the music of, of, of the Island and, you know, during the electoral process, like, during being a candidate, I did have an opportunity to pause and go to Puerto Rico. You know, I've never been to Sicily or I've never been to Ireland, but for me, Puerto Rico is kind of like what it would feel like to go back to those places. One of Bad Bunny's CDs had just dropped at that time.

So when I need pause, there's a track, Nueva York, where Bad Bunny talks about the promise of a Puerto Rican going to New York. And I try to connect as much as I can because I am scared. I am unsure. You know, this is my first time. I am balancing SOC day and, and elections and all this kind of stuff. And when I need that pause, when I need that affirmation that it's okay to be imperfect but to be fully participating, I listen to Nueva York because it reminds me of my grandmother.

You know, when she marched with Martin Luther King, she had one dress. She had no bail money. She had no money to get back to New York City. She lived in public housing. She was on food stamps. She was raising seven kids by herself. And I try to draw on that strength because, to your point, I have so much more than she had, and she still wanted to fight for our nation, for the democracy that she felt was promised to her. So it's Bad Bunny.

That's incredible. That's... Wait, you didn't get back when he was doing all the concerts, did you? Were you there then? No, I didn't get back to doing all the concerts. When I'm in Puerto Rico, I basically am an employee of my son, and I'm at the beach. I fully get that. Like, like, you know the vibes where- Oh my God. A vacation. He's, um... Yeah. Right.

He's very oriented toward the water. He loves the coral reef. Mm-hmm. So I'm literally just, like, holding his flippers. But, you know, I think that's a privilege, too. It is. Being a parent or being a caretaker, we have them for such a short time. So I'm sure that when I'm older I'll be able to do f- you know, more adult fun stuff.

But when I go to Puerto Rico, I try to disconnect from my phone and, you know, kind of just engross myself in the spirit, and then I do a lot of eating. I'm gonna be totally honest. I do a lot of eating, too. So, you know, for people who are new to Buffalo, for people who choose Buffalo, I always thank them.

I always thank them, "Thank you for choosing Buffalo," because I know in a way what it feels like to leave a place that you're comfortable or that seems magical for the promise of, you know, better opportunity. And people continue to choose Buffalo, and for that reason, I wanna continue to choose to work to improve the way that we serve them from a school board perspective. Wow. This is one of the best I've been lucky to do.

This was, uh, fantastic, Talia. Thank you so much. Um- I really appreciate you and the space that you have and voice. Like, I watched some of your other episodes, and I was like, "He really says what he means," and I value that. Oh, you're very kind. Again, we're gonna have another conversation, so you're just gonna have to deal with that. Yeah, pinky swear, 100%. Can't wait. Thank you so much for your time. Yes.

Thank you so much for stepping up to run and everything else you've done before you'd even decided to run, before your elders said, "You're running, Talia." And you're like, "Okay, got it. I'm her. Got it." I can't wait to see what you do, and yeah, can't wait to talk more. So much. I appreciate the privilege, and thank you for making time.

You know, while we're both parenting, I really think that the space that you're building, you know, enriches our democracy and is what we're all fighting for. Thank you. Go get 'em. That's it for this week, and I hope you loved these conversations and people as much as I do. Huge, huge, huge thanks to our partners at Run for Something for all of their hard work every day, but also to bring these conversations to life. As always, this conversation was produced and edited by Willow Beck.

Reminder, you can find candidates who are endorsed by Run for Something and other awesome organizations we trust at whatcanido.earth. If you or someone you love is under 40 and wants to run for something at the state or local level but doesn't know what's available, head on over to runforwhat.net.

And if you wanna know more about our work, read our newsletters and essays, check out our other podcast, or even get some of our awesome T-shirts, hoodies, stickers, or coffee mugs, head to importantnotimportant.com. Thanks for listening, and thanks for giving a shit.