This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast. Chris Harrison here coming to you from the home office in Austin, Texas. I have such an interesting, such a compelling show today because of the guests that I have, Larsa Pippen and Marcus Jordan. They are a couple. If you don't know about them, let me explain briefly before we jump into this interview, because context and the facts
that surround this are incredibly important. Larsa Pippen was married to Scottie Pippen for some what twenty twenty three years now. They did meet and fell in love at the latter stages and really at the end of Scotty's run with the Chicago Bulls. Marcus Jordan is Michael Jordan's son, the greatest basketball player of all time, the Goat. But these two gentlemen, Scotty Pippen and Michael Jordan, will forever be intertwined because of their run with the Bulls, their dynasty.
They were the greatest basketball franchise probably ever and without Michael, there wouldn't be Scotty. Without Scotty, there wouldn't be Michael. They went on to the Dream Team won Olympic gold. I mean, these two guys were as synonymous as peanut butter and jelly. They just go together. So when news broke that Scotty's ex wife, Larsa and Michael's son were dating, it's just the optics and the sound of it all was just too much for our little brains to handle,
and our imagination started to run wild. There's Larsa with a young Marcus, a baby Marcus Jordan babysitting him and robbing the cradle and is that what it was like? How long did they know each other? And it had this weird feel and then the tabloids went crazy. Well, none of that is true. That perspective is a false narrative. And what I wanted to dive into today with them, what are the facts, what's real and what's not real
about your story, about your relationship, about your love. And so let us begin and joining me now, Larsa and Marcus, Larsa, Pippen, Marcus Jordan, guys, thank you so much for being here. It's good to see you.
It's good to see you too, Thanks for having me.
You guys are in Miami together. Correct, obviously we don't have the video for the rest of the world. But you guys, are y' all living together in Miami?
Yeah? I mean pretty much. So.
I own a retail store actually headquartered out of Orlando. It's only three hours away, and so I'm finding that I'm spending like three and a half weeks in Miami these days, and I get up like a half a week.
Yeah, exactly.
So can we let's define this relationship? If we're on Facebook right now? How are we defining this?
Definitely in a relationship. I can't remember the Facebook status?
Are we in love? Are we? Is this a serious relationship?
Absolutely?
Yeah.
I just saw you. I was reading through and I see you know, it's like, well are they aren't they? Is this for real? And so that's the main thing I wanted to clear up this is this is legit.
This is for real, very much so for real, I think. You know.
Obviously, the title of our podcast is Separation Anxiety, and you know, we came up with that name because we genuinely experienced separation anxiety when we're not together.
I love that. What is the origin story here? When did you guys first meet?
Yeah?
We met in La We met at a party four years ago. I talk about this all the time because I feel like people think we knew each other.
Yeah.
Well, that's the thing is you when people think of you, and whether it's fair or not, you think Scottie pipp and Michael Jordan, you think of the nineties, whether you just watched the documentary or like me, you were a sportscaster back in the nineties. So I think people take this snapshot of you two. But Marcus, clearly you were there in those days with your dad, But Larca, you were not.
Well, I was in college when they played together, So I was in college at you. I see Scotty and Michael played together for one year when I was there. I caught like the back end of it was my senior year in.
College when you and Scotty were dating. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, so but that was the end that was like late we're talking late nineties.
Yes, yeah.
I just think that's a big misconception is that you know, she was around, she was babysitting me when I was young. But no, I think you know, obviously she started dating her exit, you know, the tail end of the nineties, and we met four years ago, and that's really where our relationship started.
And but I think it's just the two names. And I know you guys get this.
Really honestly, I think that's what's the names. Yeah, it's been names that really, like I feel like, is the problem the names?
They are synonymous with each other.
Yeah, And I feel like people have their own opinions of what their actual relationship was, and you know that might differ from you.
Know, what it really was as far as Scotty and Michael.
Correct.
Well, I mean the two were intertwined regardless. I mean without Scotty there would be no Michael. Without Michael, there would be no Scotty. I mean it really was the Batman and Robin of a dynasty. And so those two names were just so intertwined and it was funny. I just without knowing I was doing this with you guys. I just rewatched The Last Dance again, the great documentary on your Dad, and you know, one thing that struck me and I'm glad you're here when I was watching
it was the lack of family. And I don't know if that was meant to be, if that's the way they wanted it. You guys kind of came in at the very end. But yeah, I kind of wanted to see that side in your relationship and what is your relationship with your dad right now?
What was it?
Yeah, I think my relationship with my dad is super tight. I think with regards to the last Dance, I think there was a lot of interest and intrigue around the dynamic of the team, the dynamic and the players and the ownership. Obviously, that documentary took place with regards to like the ninety eight season, and you know, there was as you know, there was a lot going on going into that year, and so I think for the documentary purposes, they wanted to keep it about what was happening on
the court, the front office, et cetera. You know, obviously I was working tightly with the producers and the director. They actually sent me episodes early just to try to make sure from an authenticity standpoint, everything was on point. But you know, I think that was the focus was those you know, basketball playing years and the dynamic there and so yeah, I don't you know, regarding our relationship today, we just got back from a trip, a family trip
to Turks and Kkos. You know, I talked about all the time, I go play golf at Grove twenty three all the time, so you know, I see him very frequently.
What was your because well, Larsa obviously didn't know you during those days. Again, let's let's clear that up. But you knew Scotty, you were around the franchise, around the team a lot. What was your relationship with Scotty back in those days and do you still have a relationship with him?
No, you know, honestly, my dad's relationship in Scotty's relationship, that was between them, you know, And you know, I was very very young. I was born nineteen ninety and so even through that dynasty, I was very very young, eight.
Nine years old at the.
Eleven eight nine during you know, the taping of dance and so, you know, their relationship was their thing. And you know, obviously as an adult, you know, I've been around my dad more. I kind of, you know, started to understand what was going on more. But you know, I didn't really have a relationship with them. That that's you know what Scotty, I should say, that's more you know, their business.
So you mentioned you hang out with your dad and vacation and golf. Has the conversation come up, Hey Dad, I'm dating Scotty's ex wife Larsa.
Yeah, I mean, look, I think how we came up originally was through the press, in the media and all of the different levels of interest.
When we first started dating, and.
Honestly, before we were in dating, we were just friends going on lund hanging out, and so you know, once all of that stuff became public and was in the media, he definitely reached out to me and was like, hey, what's going on?
Is this is this a real thing?
And I let him know, you know, as it developed that it was definitely genuine, and you know, he gives me the utmost support and just wants to see me happy, just like you know, all of my other siblings, and so there was nothing really there.
Larsa, how about you. Did you ever talk to Michael or Scotti about this and their reaction?
I feel like, I, you know, I feel like I want to talk about us, I don't really I don't really talk about I don't really talk about any of my you know, to any of my access about their girlfriends or whatever. I feel like, when you leave a relationship respectfully, like it's done, there's nothing else to really talk about. I don't feel like I need to talk to anyone about our relationship. I feel like we're both adults.
Weren't a really good place. We bring out the asked in each other, and I feel like that's where we are today.
What I found interesting is I was researching you guys. We have a very similar relationship with my fiance. My fiance, Lauren is sixteen years younger than me and you, Larsa, if I'm not mistaken, we're ten years younger than Scotty, and so I think there is this dynamic. Again. I go back to the optics of it all. If you don't do the math, and if you don't pay attention to the situation, you think, oh, someone like the same age of Scottie Pippen is dating Michael Jordan's son, and
that's not it at all. There was a twenty six year gap between Scotty and Marcus, and so the sixteen year gap is very interesting to me because that's exactly where my fiance and I fall. So, Larsa, I guess my question for you is you've dated an older man, been married to an older man, now you're dating a younger man. Give me the pros and cons here.
I don't know.
I feel I always dated older guys. I never really wanted to date younger guys. I feel like I'm I
feel like it's based on the person, you know. I don't really go through a relationship like thinking like, oh he's younger, I shouldn't date him, or you know, I kind of feel like I would date someone twenty years older than me if I liked him and we had you know, similar interest And I just feel like it just so happens that Marcus and I are together, and you know, we're sixteen years apart, but we have everything in common. I'm sure you find the same thing with
your fiancee. It's not really that much of a difference. I feel like if you're doing the same things, it's like we do. We enjoy doing the same things. That's kind of where we are today.
Like, sounds like you might have to come on our podcast.
We have a lot to talk about. So I knew you guys were friends, and again, this reminds me of my fiance She worked in entertainment tonight would interview me from time to time, and then there was that moment where it went from friends to oh there might be more here. What was that moment for you guys, and who made that first move.
I definitely feel like it was me.
You know, throughout our friendship, I would always invite Larsa if I was going to the Bahamas or going on a trip or coming to Miami, I'd say, hey, what's you know, what's your schedule, like we should link up, et cetera. And there was one trip where I was coming to Miami late last year and I said, Hey, are you in town. I'm coming with a group of friends.
I would love to link up. And I think you just said simple as like yeah, come, And so you know, I was coming in for two days, and you know, we ended up doing dinner and Cipriani or wherever we were at, and that those two days turned into twelve days. I stayed for twelve and we just ended up like doing everything together.
We were pretty much compable his friends, I had my friends, and we literally got like we were going to the pools, like at the w we were going to Tripriani dinners with like a group of like fifteen people. Yeah, we were just having the most amazing time just to hanging out with like a group of people. And then I remember one night we were at a club and it was.
Just like I don't know.
We just kind of felt like, I don't know, like there could.
Be something there.
I think it was just I think, honestly, what it is is when we're out, there's a lot of guys that want to come up and talk to ourselves.
I think, really exactly.
I think vice versa.
There's friends that you know I have, or women want to come up and talk to me, and I feel like there was some mutual jealousy of like, you know, who's talking to her, who's talking to him?
And so that's that's kind of when we knew, you know.
That's that's amazing. It was there ever a conversation between you two, because again, there's nothing wrong by any means, but was there a conversation of the optics are going to be? You know, we're going to catch some grief for this. Do we do this? Is it worth it? Because relationships are hard enough just any given day, much less the added pressure and you know, eyeballs, you guys are going to get because of your last names.
I feel like I've always been in a place of like my parents always telling me like this person isn't good because of this, this person's too old, this person has kids, largely this is before kids. You don't have kids, You're not gonna be able to deal with this. You're not gonna be able to deal with this. So I feel like me growing up in a place of like everything was forbidden fruit. So finally I feel like when I'm an adult, I felt like I should be able
to be with who I want to be with. It's not like, you know, in the very beginning, I felt like, is it worth it, like for us to like take on heat have people say all these things about us. But at the end of the day, like you said, like I wasn't a part of that. You know, I'm like I because of my last name, because if your last name, I don't think we should have let our last names determine if we're going to be together or not. I think that that would just be like not the right thing to do.
Yeah, I think there was definitely some tiptoeing around and being cautious just because we didn't know, you know, we were it was developing in real time, so we didn't know how serious, you know, we.
Were caught together. We were literally just from so I feel like people were calling us, blowing up our phone, like oh my god, you've been dating Marcus Jordan and I'm like, no, we're just friends and your dad and just everyone was calling us and it was it was not that we were just literally hanging out as friends. And it's funny because I wanted one of my friends to date you. I was trying to set Marcus up
with one of my girlfriends. So it was because I was like, he's such an amazing guy, you should date him. And then we were just hanging out so much that like it just kind of turned into more.
What I appreciate about the two of you is I don't know if a sense of humor or a sense of self maybe both. Is that you understand the enormous context of it all. Again, it's only because of the names and because of your ex husband and your dad, of they were so synonymous together. I'm glad you guys at least understand the context and you knew the heat was going to come. Should that negate the feelings you have. Should that ruin a relationship, Absolutely not, that would be crazy.
But you have to understand the way people hear it when they see you know, when they just see the names, that is going to bring the headlines.
Yeah, I think there's some shock value just if you're looking at it on paper. And honestly, I feel like you know that we tiptoed and we're a little extra cautious, just mainly out of I think my family's reception of it, because you're in a different position than I am. But I think once we realized that both of my parents, which actually it's my mom's birthday today, so we were
missed a birthday shut out, So happy birthday, Mom. But yeah, I think once we realized that my parents were, you know, at ease and comfortable with us dating, then I think it made it that much more easier for us.
Yeah.
I love that you guys are drinking wine.
Yeah, I mean I'm a wine snob. I took some wine courses actually my hospitality management degree, so.
I'm a wine snob as well. When we get together, A, we'll play golf. B we'll drink some great wines.
Absolutely, I love that. And some tequila too.
Oh my god, you're you're speaking my language, all my vices in one. Another thing that reminded me of Lauren and I about your relationship is, for quite some time, you guys kept it on the down low, and you had fake names in your phones, and Lauren and I did the exact same thing, and I was just curious why you guys kept it secret. What were you worried about getting out in the early days.
I don't know.
I feel like for me, I felt like I didn't want people to assume that there was more going on than there actually was.
Yeah, I feel like we talked a lot, but you know, it was friendly.
It was never like our conversations like the four years we were friends were it was basically like, hey, are you out, Yeah, what's happening in Miami? And you'd be to Orlando. I'd be in la and I'd be like, hey, I'm walking into this restaurant or It was not like like we were hitting on each other.
It was very late.
It was real like friendship.
I just knew that, you know, when Lauren and I went public, I knew it would be a story. I mean, the headlines right themselves, the guy from the Bachelor finds love and he's dating, and so I just knew it was going to be a thing. And that added pressure was something that I wasn't worried about eventually, but I wanted it to be on our time and when we faced it, we made that decision together and we knew
we actually loved each other at that point. Was that kind of your thinking along the same lines.
Yeah, I think again, a lot of our early stages of you know, transitioning from friends to a committed relationship was playing out in real time in the public eye, you know, and so you know, it almost gave us something to bond over as well, just because you know, we're seeing headlines and we're talking about it and we're like, I mean, are we sure we want to even do this? And I think that kind of cemented it for us as well.
Well, you have the whole Real Housewives world, Larsa, is that something we're going to see Marcus on? Are you going to be a part of that?
I think so.
Yeah.
I've you know, I was there at the reunion last season. I've kind of I've been supportive. Look, it's it's her world. I'm just a fly on the wall in it, but you know, I want to support her. I want to be supportive of, you know, everything that she's doing. And so I definitely make an appearance of two in the in this season.
I mean, name value alone. They'd be crazy not to be clamoring to get you on air. I mean, come on, if you're a TV producer, you're out of your mind.
Yeah, I think this reunion.
I definitely have some some some words I want to talk to Andy about.
I got some things I want to talk to Andy about.
For has Andy been dogging on you guys?
No, no, no, no, he's been super supportive. He's obviously, you know, the top dog, and so he's very, very very supportive of us.
So you mentioned you guys got a little jealous about each other. Larsa, I don't know if you still are, but I know you at one point you were on only Fans. Are you still on only fans?
I'm on only fans. I'm just not, you know, my only fans. Let me clarify this. There's one more thing I have to clarify. My Only Fans was never like I never did nudity or anything like that is basically lifestyle. So it's basically the same things that I would show on my Instagram. I my only fans, it's it's my subscription is free also, so it's not like there's anything crazy on my old events.
Well, see that just proves that I was not on your only fans page stalking you because I had no idea.
It's either never been only fans. You know, it's not my fa description stream.
It's basically behind the scenes. I do a lot of stuff like my jewelry line large Summarie. I post a lot of things that are behind the scenes, or like me going out or me being on the beach or things like that, or on Instagram. I feel like I don't want to have to read the comments and look back. If you post only fans, it kind of goes away. I don't have to like look at it or like nurture it, you know what I mean.
So you're not even you're not doing any provocative stuff.
No, it's not.
It's like mainstream.
It's not even feet No, I do sea, but like just it's like I'm just kidding.
I'll be on seat and I'll show my legs, like if I'm working out, and like now, I think a big part of her career is content creation, and so I think owns is just another platform where you can post exclusive content and you know, obviously reap the benefits of that. Yeah, So I think what you were trying to ask is is Marcus KARENOI does not care.
No.
Look, you know, for me, I want her. She's a strong, independent woman. You know, she has her own career, focuses, et cetera, et cetera, and so she was doing that before we started dating. I would never be the type of guy that says, hey, look, now that we're dating, you got to mix something.
You know.
I'm fully supportive of her, and honestly, I think maybe I've taken a picture or two for her just to try to help, you know, help keep her keep her status on there. So I'm I'm fully supportive of her.
I love that.
So you guys just started a new podcast and actually launched today. You can find it on UH well where you find all podcasts, and you guys are tied into iHeart as well. It's a good home. It's called uh Separation Anxiety. Yeah, obviously you touched on that a little bit, Marcus. About the name came from the fact that when you guys are apart, you have this separation anxiety. But what are you guys diving into together on this show? What is the purpose? What do you guys hope to talk about?
Yeah, I mean, for me, I feel like, you know, the purpose is just to kind of one clear the err about a lot of the misconceptions of our relationship.
But then two, you know, we do feel like, you know, age gaps in dating and relationships are a more common theme that you see today, and so it's all about just putting our perspective out there, you know, talking through our story and hopefully we help you know, other couples or people out there and you know, navigate this tricky world that we've called twenty twenty three.
These days, I mean, I feel like it's it's been fun for us. We enjoy doing it. It's almost like therapeutic. Do you feel like it's like that for you. I feel like we just discussed current things that are going on in our lives. We talk about basically everything, like today we talked about, you know, our age gap. And I feel like there's a lot of topics that I feel like in twenty twenty three that don't really make
as much of a difference in dating. I feel like, you know, people just want to be happy, and I feel like everyone just wants to be happy, and like, for me, the number one thing is your happiness, protecting your mental being in a good place, being with someone that makes you feel good because all these other things that we deal with on the day to day and they're hard. Life was hard in twenty twenty three.
Sure, I think you guys will find it very cathartic and it's interesting. Laura and I will talk about things. I'll be in the middle of a conversation and it starts heading in a very interesting area and I'm like, wa wait, wait, whoa stop, like, save it? Save it for the show, because we do. We kind of hash everything out on the show. Now, I'll do the interviews like I'm doing today, but then we'll do a show
just to us, and we are We're very similar. And I'm inntionted, you know, Marcus, because you are the Lauren Zema in this relationship. You are coming into a family. You know, Larsa has kids and I know you don't, And so what has that been like to try and weave yourself into the family that I know it was a difficult thing for Lauren to do. She's done it brilliantly and my kids love her. But how is the process been for you?
You know? For me, I feel like it's been easy.
Larsa's like best friends with her kids, with her kids and so I think that's one of the things that I admire about her both is that, you know, she just loves her kids. They're best friends, they talk all the time, and they're older, and so I feel like, for me, you know, my approach is.
Always to be a fly on the wall.
You know, I'm not trying to impose or you know, intrude on their space by any means. And with her, you know, the way that their friendship is, I feel like, you know, I make I chime in and I give my.
Two cents here and there when when necessary.
But overall, she's done a great job raising her kids, and you know, I think that they've recepted me pretty pretty well.
So I love you.
I feel like, you know, I think when you have something, when you have everything in common with someone, it makes it really easy for the person to come in. And I also feel like my kids knew you as my friend, so I think it wasn't a lot of times. I feel like when you meet someone with kids, the kids kind of have like a closed door because they don't want to see someone new come into the family. But because we were friends, I feel like they were already like so receptive towards you.
You never had to really think, Okay, I'm dating this guy, is it time to introduce him to the kids. You guys were already friends, he'd already met him, so then it was just, hey, we've started dating.
Yeah, that's that's really what it was. And I feel like we have so much in common. We like sports, we like business, we like fashion. I feel like all my kids that's kind of like our lane in our homes. So I feel like for you, you know, it's hard for I feel like, I don't know about you, but it's been hard for me to like bring someone new into my family because I feel like we're different. You know,
we're different. We're not like regular like I don't know, just like we talk about, like, you know, the NBA a lot, We talk about sports a lot. Like a regular person came into our life. They have to really be like, what the heck is going on?
So you do love basketball?
Yeah, you see to be a cheerleader. Yeah, my kids all played basketball. Yes, like that's kind of our thing.
Marcus. Obviously with you, I know you played college ball before you left and started a business. Did you ever think about not going the basketball route? I mean, I always think of like, I know Wayne Gretzky, and obviously you look at Charlie Woods, you know, Tiger's son, and I'm like, you know, would you play hockey, would you play golf? If you're Michael Jordan's kid, would you play basketball? Just because of the pressure. Well, look at Bronni right now, Lebron James kid, right.
I think there's just a natural, uh, you know, attitude to gravitate towards what you're around. You know, as a kid, for me at least, I always grew up around basketball, the bulls, my dad, et cetera, and so you know, being in Jordan, I'm super competitive, and so I always wanted to go out and make my own name on the basketball court.
And you know, there were some factors.
While I was in college to you know that made me end up deciding to go to business out. But you know, I always naturally gravitated towards the game, and my dad was super supportive of you know, if I needed help, you know, he was he was always.
There to help, and et cetera, et cetera.
So you know, I just feel like it's a natural thing as a kid of an athlete to gravitate to that sport, and so you know, for me, I ended up wanting to, you know, go the business route, and I'm happy I did that.
Yeah, you were probably a gym rat, I mean, just because you were always.
At the gym undercent and I mean, you know, playing sports as a high school athlete, collegiate athlete, it's a full time job, you know, and you're working around the clock and training and constantly staying in shape. And so you know, my senior year, going into my senior year, I decided to step away from playing basketball and you know, focus on getting my degree. And a year after that, I ended up opening my business. And so I'm happy I did that.
I'd be interesting if a guy like Bronni Lebron James Kid, or even Charlie Woods would reach out to you and say, hey, you know, what's it like, Like what advice do you have for me? Like what would you tell Brownie as he is about to try and follow in his dad's footsteps kind of like you were doing.
Yeah, I tell him have fun. You know.
I think you know, one of the things that I didn't listen to when I was in college was that it goes by quickly.
You know, you think that every day.
You know, you're waking up at six am and you know, getting home at nine km.
After practice or whatever.
You think it's gonna be forever, but in reality it goes quickly. And so I would just tell him to have fun, enjoy and you know, take it as far as you can.
That is so true. I mean, of all the things. I mean, whether you're dancing, for whatever you're doing, there is this window and you don't and maybe it's a good thing that God doesn't give us the ability to realize it's going by so fast, so you can enjoy it a little bit.
One per one hundred percent.
Is there anything else that you guys wanted to clear the air about, anything that you wanted people to know.
No, I think I think that, you know, I feel.
Like people there.
I feel like, you know, people think that you and to date me because of you know, my.
Status or wealth or whatever money, And.
I feel like that's I think you want to date me because of my.
Status exactly, And so I think that's like a common misconception as well, is that you know, you're some sort of gold digger or whatever. In all honesty, she's one hundred percent independent and she's got so much going on, and you know, she's she's definitely the bread winner over here.
It is just it is just so intriguing for people. I think it's just too tantalizing, especially in this day and age of social media, to not just create and run with these stories and and it's so easy for people, and I'm sure you guys have found this. It's so easy for people not to do your homework and just dig in and look at the facts of it all. I mean, I didn't know until I read it, you
know up on you guys, I had no clue. I had no idea until you know, age difference and when you guys met and how you you know again, weren't babysitting Marcus, et cetera.
I mean, it's a lot of misinformation out there. That's kind of where we're excited about our podcast.
Yeah, for sure.
And I just feel like, you know, it's easy for people to throw stones behind the veil of Instagram or social media, and so you know, when we're out in public, we rarely ever received negative energy.
Has there been anything that's that's hit you guys, that was said or done where you're like, you know what that that did hurt like that pissed me off.
I don't think so.
I feel like I'm happy, you're happy. We don't really like let like people come into our like happy place.
Yeah.
I think it's both of us being raised in Chicago. We've got tough skin. You know, people talk all the time, and I think we rarely let it get to us. I think there's there's moments where we want to respond just to clear the air in social media. But I'm glad we've got our podcast Separation Anxiety to, you know, to utilize that platform.
Well, there's tough in being in Chicago and then there's real housewives tough. So Marcus just be ready.
Yeah, trust me, I'm learning on the flot.
Larsa's got the playbook. She's got you definitely, she always did. By the way, I didn't ask, are you guys? Is marriage of possibility?
It's definitely a possibility. I mean it's on the table.
We we haven't really sat down and fully had those types of conversations yet, but it'll happen in near future for sure.
I love it. Well, we're on the way, We're on the way down the aisle. So I wish you guys the best not only together in life, but also with the podcast Separation Anxiety. You can check it out. We're all podcasts are found And next time we do this together in person with a nice glass of wine some tequila and then we go out and play little golf.
Absolutely bring the missus on our podcast. We'll make a weekend out of it.
All right, my friend, it's good to talk to you, Larsa, Marcus shall take.
Care alrighty have a good one.
Thank you, my thanks to Larsa Pippen and Marcus Jordan. Relationships are so hard. They are difficult in the best of circumstances. Lauren Ziem and I go through this a lot. And it's why related to this relationship so well, I mean, but they are doing it on a much deeper and crazier level where an ex husband and a other are two of the most well known individuals in the history
of a sport. Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time, his son is dating his ex teammate's ex wife, and so it's just a lot to take in. And I appreciate them being patient with all the questions, talking us through it. Speaking you know their truth and their narrative. I really appreciate it. And if I took nothing away from looking at them and spending some time with them today, they really seem like such a genuine,
loving couple. The smile on Marcus's face, that's real, that's love. They truly are in love with each other, and I wish them all the best. And again I thank them for their time and most importantly, for their candor, and I thank you for your time. As always, I love shows like this, and I love that we all get to spend this time together. And I will talk to you next time because we have a lot more to
talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most dramatic pod ever, and make sure to write us a review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you next time.