This is Dramatic: Money, That’s What I Want

We celebrate both. Oh, okay, celebrate the right word. It feels yeah, No, you celebrate, Yeah, okay, it's subserve, observe and celeb Can we celebrate Passover? We celebrate Easter. Those are both celebrations. You do both. Actually, I don't know if everybody knows that about you. Yeah, I'm a bit of a religious mutt. And so I drove up to Dallas with the kids. Laura and I kind of separate, divide and conquer a little bit during the holiday sometimes. So you were out with your family in LA I

was up in Dallas with my family. We did Passion. By the way. Some people think it's a little weird that we do that, but I basically what we do is, so I've got family in Orange County, California, Los Angeles, California, Chicago, Illinois, and so usually me, my mom, my sister, and brother and I try to meet somewhere and celebrate together. But then Chris has family in Dallas. His kids are sometimes in La sometimes in Dallas, and you know, you might

have the kids for some holidays, might not. So it just sends that we have like a lot of places to be, and so we make time for each other's families. Yeah, quite a bit. You definitely do with my family, and your family comes here. We spend a lot of time together. So we make time for each other's families. But when it comes to the holidays, sometimes it's just easier to divide and conquer. And Elze can go spend time with her family, I can do mine, and then we come

back together and we celebrate ourselves. And I'm okay with that. I don't know. Some people are like, so, you guys aren't together. I don't think we were together last Christmas. We were, If you're being honest, how are you okay with it? Because I sort of started this. It was my idea to be like, why don't I just go with my mom's sister and brother. You go with your mom and the kids, and we'll just make it easier. Look, if I have my brothers, we're together, and I think

you feel the same way. If all things being equal, we want to be together. It's sure. It's just easier to facilitate our families and our lives to do it this way. And I think that's the growth of us. It's the growth of the experience of life. Of it's just a day. We can celebrate our day whenever. Well, to be honest, I will say there are some things I enjoy about it because there is a certain like when it's just me with my siblings and my mom.

You know, that's like your core group. I'm sure you're very different if it's just you and your brother hanging out versus if I'm with you and your brother, and I would love for you to be with my family, and you are quite a bit. You've been to pass Over with my family, and look, there's thirty of us that got together this year. I have a very big

family on my Jewish side of the family. And then we got together for Easter the next day with the other side of the family and so it's awesome when you're there, and everyone of course asked about Lauren because Lauren's more fun than I am. You're very Everybody in my family loves you more, they love me more because

you're usually around. And it's this interesting thing now, even with my family, who clearly loves me, but when I walk in the room, like, oh, we thought Lauren was going to be here, and I'm like, wow, okay, even my kids are like that now, you know, oh Gooma. Taylor's like, well, I thought Lauren was gonna I'm like, no, it's just you got your dad, Okay, Like con well, my family loves you and all that, but it's We've

talked about it before. But it's one thing I love about our relationship in that whether I'm going to see my friends or my family, like have a girl's trip with my mom and sister, or if you're going to you know, you're doing a fishing trip upcoming with your brother, you and I have never once said to each other, oh, you're going on that trip, or well no, why don't you stay home? Like we've never ever not just been fully supportive and greenlit go on that trip. Yeah, Oh

my gosh, that's awesome do that. And I love that so much about our relationship because a it makes me miss you and be it makes me like I never feel guilty about any of that. I don't know. I don't envy couples. I hear stories from people, like somebody told me the other day, Oh, well, my husband was going to go on this bachelor party and I told him he couldn't go. No. I told him he couldn't go because it was going to be like they were going to be partying a lot, and I don't really

like that group of his friends. And I was kind of thinking to myself, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong on this, but I was sort of thinking, well, he's a grown man, and if you don't trust your husband to go on a bachelor party, I think that's more of an issue with you and your relationship than with it. If you feel like you have to create a blockade between he and his friends, yeah, you have bigger problems. And by the way, he's not going to stop that

the rest of his life. You're not. That will only make him want those things more and try and get around you. And then you get into creating false narratives aka lying right, You're just hiding from you. I'm just going on this trip, or I'm going out and it turns out you're in Vegas or whatever. So if you have a problem with that, you got bigger problems in your relationship. And I think you and I have all

has been a firm believer. You got to have your own lives and you got to support your own lives. So we had our own lives and had a wonderful passover with my family. I loved it. They didn't love it as much because Lauren wasn't there. And then we had a beautiful Easter, so I hope you did too. It was a wonderful Holy Week for everybody. And so

we're back though, and we're back in Austin, Texas. And there was a story that came out Caitlin Bristow, who was on this podcast a while back, and I did her podcast quite some time ago, and in that podcast where she came to my house in la this is back pre lz and we opened up some wine. We drank way too much wine. Had a great podcast, and

in that we talked a lot about it. She got very emotional about how her feelings had been hurt when you know she was denied dancing with the stars for so long, and about you know, the way she became the bachelorette. It was her and Britt pitted against each other. Well, she dove in a little bit further. She went on her fiance Jason Tarti's podcast and she talked a little bit or about the finances behind being the Bacherette and

how those emotions got involved in that. They offered her what she said, a Measley forty thousand dollars to be the Bacheorette, and she got a lawyer, She got an entertainment attorney, which by the way, was brilliant, and an executive producer came to her and said, oh, you got an entertainment lawyer. You're asking for this amount of money. I'm sorry, I thought this was about love for you, which Britlin, which which Bristow recalled. She continued, f off,

it's about love and money. Okay, they go hand in hand for me right now, because they said you're going against Britt. And this was where Caitlin was smart. She said, I want as much as Chris Souls got as the bachelor last season, which was around seventy but it was funny how you know her emotions were in the negotiation, and I found that to be interesting beyond just the Bachelor Bacherette. You know, I don't know this. I don't

know if you do. You ever did you ever talk to people like when they're in that period, when they're in the negotiations period, and discuss anything with them? For sure you did. Certain I mean most of the bachelors and bacherettes I got to know towards the end of their season on the previous they would be like the finalist on christ Souls season, and then I knew that they were coming in to be the Bachelorettes, And so it depends, you know. I always told them, if you

ever want to talk, I'm here. I will help you. I don't have a dog in this fight. Yes, I want the show to be successful, but I did not have the final say on the Bachelor Bacherette. I did not negotiate those things. I don't even know really who ended up negotiating it. I know it probably goes to business affairs at the end of the day, but which producer. So I was not you know, I didn't have intimate knowledge.

I would hear later, Oh Emily Maynard got one hundred thousand or Shan Lowe got a hundred whatever it was, and so did they. Yeah, they got the Emily Mayner got a big chunk of money and she got to dictate where we shot the show. We went to Charlotte because she had a daughter. She had her daughter, and she's like, if we're going to do this, I need to be close by and good for her and her daughter. Well, that's interesting that Emily and Sean got such bigger chunks

than also think both Crystals and Caitlyn did. Was that reflective of the show, like not being as big on That's where the ratings were at the time, and it's and it's the worth. Look, take the emotion out of this because that's your weakness and a negotiation like this is you getting emotional. That's what they hope you will do, is get emotional when you're going into any job interview and they're going to try and use that leverage against you.

You know, it's all about all these negotiations are about leverage, and it's where the ratings are, where you are, who are you? And look take Caitlyn Bristow, for example, relatively unknown woman who had just been on The Bachelor from Nashville, Tennessee. Okay, there are plenty of those in the world that the Bachelor can go to. Now that's their stage. Your stance has to be. I resonate with America. They want me to be the bachelorette, and that is the push you

have to decide your value. They're going to try and diminish that because their job is just to get to you as cheaply as possible. You know what you just said. I have to thank you because you have helped me so much with my own negotiation skills. And you know what this is. It's frustrating. It's one of those things I feel people. I see people say things a lot

on social media. Why didn't I learn this in school, Like we're learning the Pythagorean theorem, but where's the education on how to buy a home, how to invest, what a four oh one K is and I would include in that. Negotiating your salary at work. We never are educated on that, and you helped me with that so

much when we started dating. What's more important than life a squared plus B squared equal C square or how to negotiate a damn contract which you will do fifteen to twenty times in your life that will make huge, huge impact on your life. I want to drive home two things you just said because you had told those to me before, and it sound like you maybe advised other people. And I've since gone on to tell my own friends, well, Chris told me this, and these are

two important things. One, their job is to get you for as little money as possible. When you are negotiating your salary, a contract, whatever it is, you have to realize and it's hard because your employer will probably play on your emotions, just like they did with Caitlin and say, well, aren't you in this for love? They are going to tell you like, well, you know, don't you care? And we think you've been doing a good job, and like, you know, this is all we can give you, and

why aren't you happy with this? But you have to remember to try to take your emotion out of it, which I know is not easy because our jobs are so much of our time in life and it is personal. And remember that they are trying to get you for as little money as possible. And two, you have to remember that they are going to tell you, you know, there's a million people who can do your job. I was told that in my job negotiations, negotiations so many times, Lauren,

do you know how many people want this job? And what I learned to say was, Okay, we'll go get one of them then, because I think there's a reason you want me to do this job. So if you want me, here's how much I want. And then when you've done or said both those things, you also told me you got to have a hill you're willing to die on. There has to be a number in your head where you're like, if they don't hit this, I'm walking away, and you have to be willing to walk away.

You have to back up what you say that is that that, to me is the best advice, is that you have to pick that hill. And again you have to be willing to die in. And this goes for me too. I mean, and I was going to say, we're all expendable. We are all expendable. Every time I went up for a contract negotiation, we could have been the number one show in the world, which sometimes we were, and they would come to you and say, yeah, you know,

the show struggle and we got to cut back. You know, we don't use you as much as we used to. We don't need you, you know, they will just just bury you. And so, you know, I told Caitlin in this podcast we did a couple years ago, Caitlyn, if they treat me like that, if I'm a pimple on an elephant's ass, what do you think you are? Like? How expendable are you? It goes down the line. And so there's a lot of people who could host the show. Christy, how many people want to host this show? And I

always said, great, do it. And at one point, and we're going to talk to him this week, Sean Lowe. He was used as a pawn against me one time, and I'll talk to him more in depth about it. But it was a political play because I was pushing the envelope hosting some other shows, and they wanted to put me in my place, and so I said, fine, let Sean come in and host these live shows. It was a disaster and it didn't go well. Sean, first of all, is not a host, and he was doing

live TV. It's an incredibly hard thing to do do. I think that played into what happened to me a couple of years ago. Absolutely, I think it was partly financial and political for sure. You leaving period, Yeah, I mean leaving period. If they thought that I was still so important that this show couldn't survive without me, the move heaven and earth to make that happen. If they think maybe we can do the show for cheaper, better, whatever, then they're going to try that. And again, sometimes it

works out, sometimes it doesn't work out. I think that they saw that the show did not do better without you, and I'll t it your horn on that, I mean. But so that's that's the thing. Though. Some there were hills you have to be willing to die on. And there was a hill that I was willing to die on, and you have to be at peace with that. You have to know your value and by the way, don't overvalue yourself either. And you have a great quick story as we wrap this up. You have a great quick

story about a chef. Oh yes, well, dinner, we were just out. You were just at this dinner and this chef is telling me that he just moved. He'd moved here to Austin and he's trying to get a restaurant open, but he's having such a hard time finding people to work right now. And he said it was in part because he's getting people who are have no experience telling him, well, this is the salary I demand, and he's like, but you have no experience, and I can't afford to pay

you that. And so he has all this incredible experience himself, and he's kind of trying to tell people, look, you know, part of this job is you are going to learn from me. You have no experience, but we're going to come in here and get an incredible education as part of the job. Now, that is sometimes a tactic employers will use against you, and you just have to be aware. But in this case, I think he was right, and what it made me realize is the reason he's right

is knowing your worth goes both ways. Yeah, you have to know your worth, understand and have a real clarity on your talents, your education, your experience, your knowledge, but also know what you don't know and be like, you know, Okay, I see what you're saying. And if you're promising me that this is this apprenticeship in a way, then okay, I will take a little bit less money because I

know what I'm going to walk away with here. But I get scared, so I speak at universities, and I used to speak at a lot and there is you know, I don't just want to call it an entitlement that has such a negative connotation. But one thing we are teaching a lot of kids, especially in colleges, you know your worth and go in. Well, you also need to know, as Lauren just said, you have very little worth coming out of college. I don't care where you went, Harvard, Syracuse, TCU,

doesn't matter. You don't have worth. Yet. You have to be able to go in and grind and earn that worth. In the professional world, that means working for very little money. Don't worry about the paychecks starting out as much as getting that experience and working your butt off. Then you have. You're building that worth. You're building that collateral for the

next negotiation and the next negotiation. But just coming out and saying, for example, this chef who was this French chef and this girl came in and she's like, I demand this, and he's like, I have to teach you how to make croissants. You don't know how to do that. You don't know the first thing about this. Once you learn that, you're going to be unbelievably valuable to me and the next person, So you have to earn that worth. Yes, And I will also say I always give people the

advice to switch jobs. I just saw this on Instagram the other day. Was like a study done by Forbes in twenty fourteen that showed that over time, if people stayed at a job, they made less money than people

who switched. And we had people at entertainment tonight who would tell me, like they'd come to me and ask my advice and say, I'm frustrated here, and I'd say, you know, if you can, I mean, depending on how the job market is, but consider switching going to another place, because you were always going to get a bigger salary bump going to a different employer, and then you can always come back, you know, and it's only going to make you more valuable. And I do. I just had

a friend who I advised on this negotiating thing. She'd been in her company for like a decade and she found out someone knew who came in and her same job was making way more than her. She went to them, and I talked with her the negotiation and she said, this is where I want to be. They wouldn't meet her, so you know what that was the hill she died on. She walked away. In less than a month, she has a new job, she is making the money she wanted to make, and it is all because she switched jobs.

So I've given that advice a lot to producers on the show. You're you're growing in the job. First of all, you just need to go see how other people work. You need to work for others. Even if you have a great job, go figure it out, and then you're much more valuable when you come back. Was there ever a time when you were close to when you were in negotiations for a job for a show, whatever show it was that you were hosting, where you did almost walk away, where it almost fully broke down. Oh I

have I've walked away? What do you mean? Shows from hosting? There were shows that I passed on and just it was no but I mean a current show that you were in and you were in negotiations and you were like, this might be the end for me. Every time I negotiated it it was ruthless. I mean, you know it's you're you're such a small you know, fly in this wheel because you got to figure I'm negotiating with two of the biggest studios in the world. You're negotiating with

Warner Brothers in ABC, ABC is ABC. Disney is one of the biggest public companies in the world. That's how you're negotiating with how minute How insignificant are you? Now, if you are a value add to them, and that's what you have to be a value add, then great, you have a little leverage, but if you don't, you're pretty expendable. And so every negotiation was ruthless. And that's

why you have agents. Typically they can go and talk to business affairs, and business affairs can say horrible things about you, I mean horrible things, and your agent will take those and they'll say great things about you, and they go back and forth and back and forth until you're both pretty unhappy with the number. Then you say yes and you move on. But you don't have to hear those horrible things. You don't negotiate on your own behalf.

There's a reason for that. Okay, Well, the typical person is not in the You know, I have an agent or I have a lawyer. And again you said it was so smart that Caitlin got an entertainment attorney to help her. What would you advise someone who's going into their salary negotiation trying to get a new job, whatever it is, who is feeling like they're being told, well, you know, there's a bunch of other people who want this job and you're expendable, and who feels like they

have no leverage in that situation. Do your homework, have some facts to back up your value. Don't just go in and say, you know I'm valuable or I think I'm worth this. You tell them why give them a laundry list of things that you do that nobody can do, and what is your value in this company? That is the most important thing is have reasons. Why don't just go in and just say a number, But also being willing to die on that hill. Pick that number, like you said, stand by it and be willing to walk.

And you have to be willing to walk. And that's a scary thing because we're all trying to pay a mortgage where all we have kids. And that is their leverage is your emotion. They know they got you, so you at sometimes you've got to just stand your ground. So I want to talk briefly about this Tom Sandoval scandival, the scandal that will never die. It's like going on, It's back to this Vanderpump rules thing, and it's not. Look for those of you that are like, oh my god,

please don't dive back into this, We're not. We're not going to get into the meat of it. But Sandoval just did an interview, oddly enough, on the Howie Mandel podcast. I did not know how He Mandel had a podcast until this interview, So I will say good get by

Howie Mandel. But actually, I think what we want to talk a little bit about is not the meat but the media of it, because I think the big question is for everybody who saw these headlines that Tom Sandoval did this interview, it was on Howie Mandel's podcast, like what, and I have heard from a couple of friends who report on all Things Bravo that apparently the way that Howie Mandel got this Tom Sandoval interview is allegedly that

Tom's band's drummer is married to Howe's podcast producer. And by the way, that is a lot of the time how interview has happened through like an intimate connection. But I've also seen people online saying, wait, why would Bravo let him do this. They filmed the reunion, but it hasn't aired yet. I think the answer here is Bravo's

not happy he did this. Um Andy Cohen named Howie Mandel his jack hole of the week on Watch What Happens Live because Howie Mandel did this interview with Tom Sandoval and by the way, seemingly knew like nothing about Vanderpump rules. He asked. He was asking who major characters are, So luckily there he had a sidekick this this co host, I think it was his I think that's his daughter. Is that okay? So she's the one that ran the interview basically. I mean, I'll be honest, I haven't listened

to the whole podcast. I've just seen clips of how he being like, wait, who's Sheena? And not knowing the show, and look, I know, you know how he a little bit.

I'm saying anything bad about how he is a person, but I will say as an interviewer, I was a little bit like how he Come on, man, you got to do some basic research, even having your daughter there, especially if you know you got a really good get by getting really good whether you're interested in this story or not, the fact that he went outside the Bravo family and this reunion hasn't even aired yet, And first

of all, Bravo has lost control of their people. Everybody's out doing their own interviews, kind of creating their own narrative, talking on their own podcasts. I mean, by Cohen's got to be just like damn it man. But didn't you

feel like you had those struggles with The Bachelor. I know you didn't deal with them, but like your producers and everybody that people would go rogue and do things outset without The way it works if people at home don't know, is when you're a contestant or a cast member on these shows, you know you're under contract with

the studio, with the network. You have to go and get approval to do interviews that they have not set up for you, like ABC or I mean, it would kind of be a combination of in The Bachelor's case, ABC Warner Brothers. Your producers would coordinate and set up interviews, and then if someone gets offered, Hey, this person wants me to come on their podcasts, you'd have to get approval. Yeah, most of the time, the network is actually likely saying no because they want you to do what they want

you to do, and that wasn't the case. It was funny. We had to learn the hard way. And I don't know if we were the first, but we used to just wrap up our show and it was over. That was it. It's like, okay, you know, Bachelor Bacherette, y'all just go go onto the world. And then they would do all these magazines and you know, podcasts weren't really a thing yet, but we didn't own those stories, and Trista and Ryan would go off and you know, and

everybody else would talk about it. And then finally we're like, wait, there's a lot of heat and a lot of meat left on this bone. Let's keep picking at it and let's own these stories. It took us a while to kind of learn let's do a reunion show. Oh, let's do an afar after the final rows wrap up, and let's continue to have these people back on and own these stories. And it became a three hundred and sixty

five day year arcing story that we own. And that's what Bravo's trying to own right now but doing a very poor job of keeping it under wraps. Well, tell me what you think from them behind the scenes perspective of like some people are saying, you know, Tom's job is on the line over this because he's so going outside. I don't think his job is on the line because he's he's made the biggest plotline in the show's history.

I go back to our last subject about leverage. This show will not be on the I mean, this is an overstatement. The show's nothing without Tom Sandoval right now. He is the story. He is the biggest story, one of the biggest media stories going right now. If vanderpump Rules loses him right now, what's the show? I know, we start next season like, well that was crazy. Hey what are you doing now? Right? I mean, like you can't not pay this off? And so yeah, Sandoval's got

them over a barrel right now. And if he's smart, he has a lawyer and he's negotiating and his rate is doubling right now, right not justifying what he did, just say he has leverage, I mean good or bad. He has leverage on this story. If they're going to use it, that's on them, I mean, I it will also be interesting to see if cast member, you know, how they handle continuing to film with him, you know, I mean that is because their lives are real, you know,

in terms of what's happening on the show. But two ladies involved also have a lot of leverage. Oh yeah, Arianna, I mean Raquel has it. She's doing Dancing with the Stars. I mean, I don't know how much leverage Raquel has in this situation. I don't know, you still need her,

she sees part of the story. I think it depends on the reunion, and it depends on if they stay together, Like if they break up, I mean, you're gonna want to see Tom and Arianna, and you're gonna want to see Ariana date again that I definitely want to see. I don't know about Raquel, but we'll see. And they probably had to. Okay, Arianna going on Dancing with the Stars. I didn't know she was on there. I'm not sure if that's confirmed. I think it's a report, but don't

quote me on that. But I do In terms of Tom doing the interview, also, I don't think it helped him at all. I think that it's like he did this interview, the timeline isn't adding up. His big argument is that he had tried to break up with Arianna and she wouldn't. Allegedly per him, wouldn't accept the breakup. First of all, I don't believe that because she's still like the whole point at which she found out about

this affair, she's at his show, watching his show. If you're broken up, why is she at your show cheering you on and holding your phone for you? But even if Tom, you're sitting here saying, oh, I had tried to break up with her a few weeks before. You'd been having an affair for six or seven months. So your big defense is that just two weeks earlier you'd tried to break up with her. He's how old is Tom? Didn't need forty? Okay, so that's even sadder than I thought.

I thought he's in his thirty so he's forty. My take on this interview and listening to him, he is such a bro. He is such a bro, and he's not the smartest guy in the world. Listening to him discussed this affair, it was like listening to a teenager. We were talking, we got closer, and we got clear. It was like this magnetic field bringing us together. When we kissed, it is painful, it's cringe just I could see him with like some sort of energy drink and

his shirt off and just like talking. It's just like he's such a bro, and yeah it's it's He and Tom Schwartz are the typical having lived in LA for well over a decade, they are the typical Peter Pan La man, and the Peter Pan syndrome is the guy who has never grown up. That's what they are. I'm still like on Sunset Boulevard, but not the good bars, playing in a band with my shirt off at forty years old with no real career or path. Yes, and

still like having affairs with twenty something year old girls. Well, blessings to the Vanderbump Rules cast. I wanted to talk about a different reality show headline. This is much more emotional and much more serious than the Tom's and Vanderpump Rules. The Kardashians. So, Courtney Kardashian has this new wedding special on Hulu about her wedding to Travis Barker, the first

time she's ever gotten married, the oldest Kardashian sister. And I read this headline that when she was getting married to Travis, her mom, Chris Jenner, gave Courtney her wedding ring. Chris gave Courtney, her daughter her own wedding ring from her marriage to Courtney's dad, Robert Kardashian, who of course is no longer with us, who passed many years ago.

And Courtney said that when she lost her dad it made her feel like she never wanted to get married because she thought, well, who's going to walk me down the aisle. I'm sure she had her other reasons, but that statement really stuck with me. That was really powerful to me because you know, Kim has been married three times,

Chloe's been married, and they're both younger than Courtney. She's the oldest, and she had never been married, and for her to tie it back to her dad that obviously because I lost my own dad, I think that stuck with me a little bit. There's certainly something about when you lose a parent, you feel like you've lost that safety net, right, and you know, the moment of a dad walking his daughter down the aisle is such a

powerful moment in our culture. And I think it speaks to her marriage to Travis right that she's like, finally, this is the person that I think maybe she feels safe with. That it was worth her sort of setting aside the sphere about losing her dad now that she's found this guy. So I think that like that, the power of that spoke to me. I thought it was a really interesting sentence. I think of that moment. I

think of that moment with Taylor. Oh yeah, I mean from the time she was a little girl and you go to father daughter dances and you think one day, you know, and she's stepping on your toes as you're dancing and walking around. You think, at one point we're going to be doing this at her wedding. Oh that's interesting. I never thought about how yeah part I mean, it's what brings tears to your eyes when you're doing those things. It does. No, I never thought about you walking to

a Scots she's gonna get married. Oh gosh, yeah, that's crazy. She's a freshman in college. Hook And those moments obviously are pivotal, their landmark moments, landmark time stamp. Also in your life, it's like, you know those moments of when they are because it's also your mortality and where you are in your life of you know, I'm picking my daughter up in kindergarten. You know, I would always come.

I would always leave the house, go get flowers, come back and pick her up, because I wanted her to be picked up for dances and feel like what it was like when a gentleman came to the door, gave her flowers, open the door for her, took her on a date. We went to dinner and then go to the dance, And like you're just thinking you were showing her how she should be treated. Yeah, and you're thinking,

someday a gentleman will do this. Hopefully she'll demand this type of love respect, and then eventually she'll get married and you'll be going to her wedding. So those those things flash through your head all the time as a dad, and I imagine for you this also struck a chord for the opposite reasons. You've lost your dad, and as you and I are about to get married, your family will be there, Your dad will not. He'll be obviously

heavily on our minds and on our hearts. But is that something that is a daughter you thought about growing up? You know, I was never the person who thought that much about their wedding. I don't know, And maybe that's part of why I've been slow to plan ours. It's

not because I don't want to marry you. I just never had that vision of like this is the dress I want and this is the type of party, which sort of makes it more prohibitive when planning because it's like an open ended you know, I could do anything, and that's kind of like almost paralyzing. I wish I had a box to plan in my head. But the first time I got married, that was definitely a question right.

I mean, people don't mean it in a way that's hurtful, but the you know, the wedding planner before you they even know you've lost a parent. They're like, so your dad will walking down the aisle and then you have to say, well, my dad's actually not here, and then they're like, oh, okay, well what do you want to do. And people don't mean it in a way of trying to hurt you, but it is this sudden like shock back to reality where you all your grief starts flooding back.

The first time I got married, I walked down the aisle alone, and that was something I wanted to do because one thing I've always felt about the loss of my father. We just mentioned if you lose a parent, it's losing a safety net. Losing my dad also made me really strong and a lot more independent, and that's always been a silver lining of that. But so I think I wanted to show like I'm good on my own.

I don't have my dad, but he's with me in my heart, and I'm good on my own and I don't need somebody else to walk this walk with me if it's not him. So that was important to me. But I actually feel differently about our wedding. Who do you want to walk you down the aisle for our wedding? I want my brother to do it, Okay, And now I'm crying. Yeah, okay, I've I actually have thought about this, and it's not a reflection of me changing. I still feel just as independent, but it is a reflection of

a change in my relationship with him. The first time I got married, my brother was eighteen and he was like, I mean, he was still such a kid, and he was still very much reeling from the loss of my dad. He was fourteen when we lost my dad. And now it's a little over ten years later, he is such a stronger person. He's grown so much. He's so much more of a like presence that I lean on in my life now than he was. Then, and so I just I think it's a reflection of him changing in

our relationship changing. Yeah, Like we're much closer now, and so I want him to feel included and recognized for his growth in that way. He is grown into the man of the family, yes, and definitely following in his dad's footsteps as well, which is ironic in a beautiful way. Yes, my dad was a lawyer. He's a lawyer. My mom was a lawyer too. He's following both their footsteps, but

he's a he's grown a lot. There's one other aspect of this whole ring thing that you and I have never talked about, and this is my side of getting a wedding ring. So my wedding ring from my first marriage was built by my grandmother and I it was my grand It was a replica of my grandfather's ring, a lover's not that my grandfather wore, and my grandfather was my idol And this is on the Jewish side

of my family, very important man in my life. And I still have that ring just because it means so much to me because it's a tie back to my grandmother who's gone now as well and grandfather. So coming into this marriage, that that that tie is still important to me. Now I don't want to wear that ring again. I would not do that, but I thought that would

be weird. Yeah, no, no, that's not the question. But I thought, how, you know, could I implement some sort of love you know, I'm trying to figure out maybe there's a lover lover's not like inscribed on the inside of the ring. That's so weird. I was just going to suggest that, yeah, something on it that is still

that tie to my grandfather. But it's like, I don't want it at all, only on your behalf to have anything to do with Oh, that would be weird my last marriage, but that but that one thing was very significant to me and I always loved I loved it when people asked me about my ring because it was so different, and a lot of people saw it on the Bachelor and Batch Room were like, what what do you What is that ring you're wearing? And I got to talk about my grandfather and why I wore that ring,

and so I got to figure that out. That balance. But that's funny that my my initial thing that I was about to say was or what if we iding? I think that's the safest thing, and it's like, in no way do I want to upset you or tie it back to something that was not well? You know. I think it's always a balance, and it's a case by case discussion of how much your past plays into your present your relationship right, because actually, oh, I was watching the show ninety Day Fiance the other day and

this woman's getting so upset. I mean, by the way, some of the healthiest relationships on TV. Just kidding. If you guys watched that show, please DM me about it and be happy to talk about it. Maybe we should have some of the ninety Day Fiance cast on this podcast. But this woman's so mad at her husband because he didn't tell her about a termination of a pregnancy from

a previous relationship he was in. And I was like, I don't know that he had to tell you that, Like, I don't think that in your current relationship you have to tell the person every detail of your past relationships. Perhaps in aren't out of respect for those other people. Maybe they don't want their details, you know, spread around like that. I don't think those are always your stories to tell. Does it help? Do they need to know?

That's a good question ask then don't. Yeah, I mean I think when you share it is when it's a critical part of you, right, Like just now as you're saying, yes, that was your ring in your first marriage. But the reason it was your ring in your first marriage is because it was a tie to your grandparents, and so that tie still matters to you now. And I'm the youngest of seven and all the grandchildren, the men have

those rings, they have some semblance of those rings. So it's it ties my cousins together, my grandparents, might you know. So it's it's a thing that somehow I want to keep those bonds, you know, no pun intended with the ring. I want to keep those bonds together. Well, maybe we should get tattoos, Okay, I don't think. Part of me always like throws that out there just to see what you say. I don't think I'll everything not a tattoo guy. Well, we got to wrap things up. But now I'm going

to wonder have you told me everything? Oh? Of course you haven't. And by the way, there's things I just don't want to know. And I am fine, that's true. We don't need all the gory details. We just need the necessary I want to believe in my mind that I am the biggest best thing that's ever happened to you, and I don't need to know otherwise. Damn it, you are. And with that, I always enjoy sitting down with you.

I always enjoy these moments because there are things that you and I get into, like pass Over Easter, like this that we don't intend to, but this is our life, this is this is truly what you and I do. We have these bizarre, intimate conversations, but it's what I love, and it's what I love bringing here to the podcast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll talk to you next time because we have a lot more to talk about.

Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most Dramatic pod ever and make sure to write us a review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you next time.