This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast. Chris Harrison and Lauren Zema coming to you and Elsie today we're opening up the playbook. When do you know it's over? How do you know when it's time to get out?
I feel like I have this discussion with friends all the time. And then you and I were talking about so many celebrity breakups that have happened lately, Sophia Regara and Joe mngnello. Natalie Portman and her husband are reportedly splitting after news of him having an alleged a fair leaked our own. Caitlin Bristow and Jason Tartick announced that they have ended their engagement.
There are so.
Many celebrity breakups and this is a topic that no matter how much technology changes things, relationships, as we know from this podcast, are always something you have to dive into and dissect. And I was just then on top of the celect news having this conversation with someone we were spending the week with about how she would know if her relationship was over. And I you know, when you advise people, I think everybody, everybody kind of wants
you to tell them the answer, right right. People want you to help them make the decision, and.
Then they don't usually want that answer right.
And we never we never listen to all the advice that we get, because really.
What you should say is please tell me what I want to hear.
Right. Well, and don't you think on some level you know that you have to get to the place where you can admit it to yourself. But you know there's an old episode of Sex and the City, the original, not the new, and just like that which I have not watched, where Charlotte, the character Charlotte says that the amount of time it takes to get over a breakup is something like one month for every year you were together.
And I was thinking, is there an amount of time dependent on how long you've been in the relationship, an amount of time that it's going to take you to know it's over?
Well, yeah, I would think that grows. I think just as she's saying, you would cut because I heard the breakup thing, and I think a therapist even told me this once the amount of time you've been married, it'll take half that long to get really over it, truly,
fully and complete. So if you're married for ten years, five years is what it's going to take for you to mentally, emotionally and everything to truly it's not like you can't move on before that, but to really officially be kind of unwound and move on, which is very interesting. But I think the opposite is true for being in a relationship. If you've been in for a year, yeah, it's probably not going to take you that long to be like, okay, the emotional ties your lives aren't that intertwined.
If you've been married for twenty or thirty years, yeah, there's a lot more to unpack.
I think it's also dependent on your age.
I think when you're younger, it's a little easier to I've noticed with my friends make that breakup happen. The older you get, the more you start to ask those questions, well, is that my person?
And is this the one?
And I've put so much time in and then I'm going to be X amount of years when we get out of it, And that was kind of the discussion I was having with this person too. But then also the older you are, the more you kind of know who you are and what you want and maybe you can be more confident. So I mean, listen to all the factors we're bringing in of how difficult it is to know when to break up with someone.
Well, I think the overall, you know, and this isn't going to be great if this is what you were coming for. There's no one simple answer, you know, there's no one thing that will let you know Okay, it's time. But with that said, I think it's always important that you're not too old, you're not too deep into something
to have a future. Yeah, and I know you have a very good friend who you've dealt with through this process, and she was in she's in a marriage and she's like, well, I'm this old and I just don't want to start over. That That cannot be an answer. That cannot be a path. You can't be so afraid of starting over whatever that you are going to stay in something that doesn't make you happy.
But I do think that you and I each have one really big telltale sign. Yours is from your grandmother. So now that I've laid that on you, I'll let you think about how you'll share it. But because I've heard you say before, I'm telling Chris like, no, no, honey, you have this is what you I know you have a barometer for this mine is this. I do think this is a very simple telltale sign that it's time
for a relationship to be over. I was in a relationship and I realized one day we were living together, I would pull into the driveway and hope he wasn't home. I would literally hope almost not on even not that I would say that out loud to myself, but I realized this tension i'd have because I knew that when I walked in the door, it meant not anything you know, abusive or bad, but it meant like he was a person who I did everything like, I made every dinner reservation,
I did all the lawn. I was taking on so much of the workload, and he was kind of a he was and for a long time had been really lazy. He'd been like, very unmotivated, and so I knew I was going to have to, you know, go in and talk. If I just knew that when I walked in the door, it was work for me. The relationship had become work.
You would really lament the fact that you'd open the garage and see his car.
Sitting there, Yeah, I would.
And I found myself spending more time apart from him. You know, maybe oh, I'm I gotta go to work drinks and I have a work thing and I'm seeing and so that was a really sort of basic, simple way of do you look forward to spending time with this person? And you know, we can get clouded and we can justify to ourselves and say, well, you know, relationships take work, but relationships shouldn't be work. They do take work and effort, but they shouldn't feel like work.
And you know, by the way them taking work does matter. Another good way to I think, see if a relationship is over this simple question, is that person putting an effort for you? Because I do think sure, again, we all have times where one person is carrying a little more low than the other and somebody's going through a
rough patch. But if you're not seeing effort anymore. I'd been cheated on in the past, and I talked to a friend of mine who was cheated on, and I told her, actually, the cheating isn't the reason that the relationship ended. I think people make mistakes, and I would have been willing to work through some of those mistakes. The reason the relationship ended is that when that person cheated, he didn't put in any effort afterwards, he didn't try to be better. He didn't and then in fact I
caught him cheating more. So, you know, there's another really clear sign. If a person keeps cheating on you over and over, yeah you deserve better. But yeah, so I think, do you look forward to spending time with that person?
Sure?
Is that person putting an effort in because at the end of the day, any relationship in your life should always be a two way street. And you know I would expand cheating on you over and over again. Does that person respect you? If you don't feel respected, that's something so basic that you got.
To get out of there.
It's really hard to be honest with yourself. You hear people justify things and explain things away. Oh he's like this, or oh she's like this. But and there are these telltale signs when people keep coming to you and keep your friends, and your friends quit hanging out with you as much, and they.
Gosh, it's funny when you break up, isn't it. I feel like then you hear from your friends, right, oh yeah, I didn't think it was.
Right for you.
Well where were you then? Why didn't you tell me? But also probably wouldn't have listened if you told me. Okay, so you have this barometer from your grandmother. With many people, she.
Had amazing advice. She was kind of towards the end of her life. She was in her late nineties. God bless her. She lived till she was ninety nine and a half years old. But I was talking to her one time and about do you want to She lived alone, and I said, you know, would you like to go live somewhere else? Do you want to be around people? Do you want to go to wherever? And she said no,
I love my life. And I believe that if you can't surround yourself with people that are equal or better than you, they don't deserve your time or attention and
they shouldn't be in your life. And I have taken that and made it a part of my life, my kids' lives, and it is so true, whether you're looking for a friend, a partner, a business partner, if that person is not equal or better than you, if they're not challenging you, as Lauren just said, adding to your life, giving to you and loving as much as you are, don't add them to your life. And I think equally, if you
dissect the life you're in now. If that's not happening, then yeah, maybe you should look elsewhere.
I think we're telling people they should.
Well, and really that goes to respect also, right, do you respect that person? Are you in awe of that person? I mean, just like I'm saying, if somebody's lost respect for you, if they're not respecting you and valuing you, you got to get out of there. I noticed in a relationship of mine in the past, I mentioned that person being lazy and unmotivated over time, and I gave it time, but I lost respect for him. And it
really is this super basic thing. I think sometimes I don't know with all I do think sometimes in our society we've lost a little bit of just these basic things you need in a relationship because we're we really embrace people being unique and all the things that make you you. But at the end of the day, some of the stuff is still really simple. Do you respect that person, because if you don't, you'll actually become a worse person. You'll start to walk all over them, You'll
become worse. I notice that in my relationship when we'd argue, I look back at some of the things I said and I'm like, that's not the person I wanted to be. And I'm not blaming him, but yeah, he'd kind of dragged me down with him a little bit. And I the friend of mine who I counseled on getting out of this marriage she was in. I did tell her, you know, sometimes it's not your it's not on you. It's not oh, everybody's at blame here, it's not two
to tango, it's not well we all. Sometimes that person just really has a lot to work on about themselves. And when you've tried and you can say to yourself, look, I gave it my all here, walk away, because all you're doing at that point is ruining your own precious moments that we have on this earth. And it did take her some time to get there, and I kind of knew. I mean, I talked to her every day, I called her a few times a week or we texted, and I knew she would get there, and eventually she did.
And wow, once she turned that corner. She even told me there was something that was.
The last straw, and she said, I feel like I got to the top of the mountain and suddenly I could see clearly and I was getting out of there.
It is hard to see the forest from the trees. And I always call it the kind of the death spiral, the toilet bowl, when you're just you're spinning. You're spinning around, You're spinning around, no matter how hard you swim, You're going down the toilet and there it is this act
you have to go through. I think we all feel like you got to go through this where you want to, you know, turn every stone up and make sure you're doing the work, and you don't want to just give up on it, because it's something once you know, you put your pride in this, you put your heart in this and your effort. But to go back to something you said is very interesting if you have that respect. Because we have another friends of ours, a couple, and
they were struggling. They'd been married for quite some time, and they were struggling, and I thought, this may end in divorce, a this may break them up. But what was at the root of everything was they had respect for each other. She was a great mom and she was a good wife, and he was a good man and a good husband, good father and all these things. And so they just were in a rough patch. But the base the foundation was there, and I think that
is something that you were dancing around. I think is a good nail to hit on the head. Look at your own relationship. Is the foundation? There is there something to build on and build from. If not, you're not going to go back and add a foundation to a house, it's too late.
And you actually really counseled those friends and said, I know and love you both as people, and I think you should stay together. And they have said you really help them through that patch and that your advice was really valuable as somebody who'd been divorce yourself. And I think that's important to note because with this podcast we are not saying break up everybody and your relationship. One piece of advice you told them was, look, guys, I mean I'm taking your words here, but you said, I've
been out there, I've been dating in my forties. Now I've seen it. It's not necessarily that the grass is greener. You're not going to suddenly have this huge, incredible dating pool open to you. So look, you will, you can find love again.
But is this worth it? I mean, am I one.
Hundred percent No? And that's why I guess the flip side of this coin is we're not. Yeah, this whole playbook isn't about breaking you up, and it is looking at it intelligently. Is there a foundation to save? Is there respect and love there? Because just jumping from lily pad to lily pad is not a great way to live life either. The grass is not always greener when
you get back out there. And I think people have that mentality sometimes of like, oh things are getting hard, I'll jump And so I think that's what this whole playbook was about, was when is it time? Because it is hard, it's hard to like do I need to put more work in? Or am I wasting time? And so I think it's going back to that those foundational questions.
Yeah, And like I said, I've asked myself in the past, have I done all I can do?
Here?
There's one actually one barometery thing. I mean, so far we've had have you done all you can do? What do you feel the person has completely lost respect for you? Or have you completely lost the respect for the person? Is the respect there between you two? Do you look forward to spending time with them or do you dread it? And there's one from the show, and it's a phrase I have to admit I didn't really understand when she
was using it, and she used it a ton. Claire Crawley on her season said I want someone who will show up for me, Who will show up for me. She said that over and over to the point of I kind of teased her about it because I think she used it so much that it lost its meaning.
And it was right. Yeah.
But when I was talking to this friend the other day, what happened was they were supposed to go on a trip with friends and their guy. This woman's partner said I'm not going. I think we're in a rough place and I'm not going to go.
I don't want to go. We'll talk when you get back.
And I said, Babe, that's a the red flag is waving in the wind for me on that one, because that person is quite literally not showing up for you. And there were moments I had in a relationship. The guy I was dating was supposed to go to brunch with my mom and some of her friends, and we got in kind of an argument and he said I'm not going. And I remember going to that brunch and I was so embarrassed and having to make excuses for him, and man, you do not want to be in a
relationship with someone where you have to make excuses. I said to this current friend, Chris would never do that to me. If we'd had an argument, you would never say I'm not going to come. You would have showed up and actually used it. I think as an opportunity to say, hey, maybe we can go on this trip together and it'll be good for us, or maybe it'll really show us if we can make this work or not.
Maybe it'll be a telltale moment. But to just say I'm backing out and to allow you to be embarrassed to that group of people, that's a no for me.
To me, it's over because.
You're really rubbing someone's nose in it. And by the way, nine times out of ten, when you're on the drive over or you're whatever, you look at each other and you realize how silly it was that you were arguing, and you realize how much you love that person, and yeah, it was like it only exacerbates that moment. And you're right, Claire did say that a lot. I've heard it.
In this case. He was quite literally not showing up.
This guy and he's not here, he's absent, he has not attended the event and him not showing up to me. What that indicates is I don't want to try to work on this. I'm willing to let you go. I'm willing to put this on pause and risk losing you. I'm willing to say, hey, you know, for all he knows, this woman is incredible. She's beautiful and smart and fun. She could have had so many new flirting with her in the week she was gone, and hey, then you lost her, buddy snooze, you lose well.
As we wrap up this playbook, I hope this is you look and I think you should always take stock of your relationship when it's good, when it's bad, when it's great. What do you what's great about it? Because you need to remember those things too, What made you happy, what makes you happy? What drives you? Why you know? How is he or she showing up for you? What do they bring to the table? And then when you
fall on hard times, you can remember those things. You can talk about those things, yes, and even bring them back up.
We're all human, we all make mistakes, and we're all going to falter. But to me, it's all about how a person comes out of those mistakes. Are they trying for you? Are they putting in that effort? And that is something you constantly work on. You and I laugh about in our jobs. In our business, we renegotiate contracts every couple of years, and we've often said, why is that not a situation for relationships?
Every five years you should have to go renegotiate your contract. Is this in a relationship? Is this still working? Are we still where we should be? That's when we become King and Queen's That's what we're going to add. But thank you for joining us today's playbook. We love chatting and bringing up all these topics. If you have something you want Lauren and I to dive into, reach out to us. You can always find us at the Most Dramatic Pod Ever, at Lauren Zeema and at Chris P. Harrison.
Thanks as always, and we'll talk to you next time because we have a lot more to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the Most Dramatic Pod Ever and make sure to write us a review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you next time.