This is the most traumatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast. Chris Harrison and Lauren Zema coming to you from the home office in Austin, Texas. We have been very busy this semester, and I say semester because it is dealing with school. The kids are back at school, they're at college at TCU. We have a daughter, a son who is a senior. And Laura and I were going to going over our calendar, which we do from time to time, of like, Okay, when are you going to be out
of town? What trips are you taking? And I've kind of based my calendar on Josh's lacrosse schedule. He plays lacrosse at TCU and this is it. It's a senior year. And so I was debating this trip coming up with Lauren and I was like, well, I may not go, and I'm like, he's only got a few more of these left. This is another chapter closing in his life.
And so we have this discussion about just that of chapters closing in life, whether it's yours, your own kids, and being present for those and kind of drinking them in as much as you can, because when they're gone, they're gone. And with Josh who's playing lacrosse. It's been a journey of and it's the culmination of everything. Right, It's not it has nothing, well, very little to do with lacrosse. It's just the culmination of a lifetime of
watching him grow play sports. I coached him in little league and in soccer, and you know, remember when he could barely hold a stick playing lacrosse and now here he is a senior in college and he has his last few games that I just want to be a part of. And I'm glad you came up with me the other day and watched. It's just fun and my heart gets filled up and I get sad and I get emotional because that door is closing.
That's what I wanted to ask you, is how you approach that mentally, emotionally? What are you thinking about it? Because you said something to me that stuck out as we were driving through campus. You said, gosh, you know, in just a couple years, Taylor will be done and then we like won't be up here anymore. I mean now we go to TCU a lot, we have two kids there. There's parents' weekends and lacrosse games and sorority weekends and all these.
Things across that campus a million times back and forth.
And by the way, we're very blessed to have two kids at the same school. It's been so fun for us and so great that they share this experience. But you said that, you said we won't be up here anymore. And I noticed that you said it in kind of this emotional, reflective way, and it's not even really a thought that crossed my mind. And that kind of made me realize. I think you and I approach chapter closings
a little bit differently. But first tell me what went through your mind, and what goes through your mind?
I think to be very deep at your own mortality. It is your own life kind of flashing before your eyes. I remember when my kids went to kindergarten or pre k whatever it is, early days at Westminster in California, up in Westlake Village, and I remember like were they were there for the first couple of years of school, and there's this oak tree and we're like sitting I'm like talking to a buddy, and I'm like, man, are
we ever going to leave this courtyard? And you know, are we gonna be sitting under this oak tree forever? And then boom, like that it's gone and you're in elementary school, and then boom, you're in middle school and then high school. And it's just things fly by so fast. And you know whoever came up with the line that you know the years go by.
Oh, the days are long, but the years are short.
Yeah, it's so true. Days are so long, and but the years do fly by, and that all of a sudden, I vividly remember trying to think about where's Josh going to go to college? And then it's like TCU and so now he's there, and now it's he's already coming to an end, and he's already thinking about that next chapter. I think we're all blessed with God gives us this blessing of not being away of those things were going through ourselves, like do you remember the last time you
walked off stage in high school? Right?
No, it doesn't hit you at the moment.
Right And I for me, I played college soccer and I loved soccer. I don't remember walking off the field and thinking this is it. I've scored my last goal. I've you know, this is it my last truly competitive game. Now I went on and played a little semi pro and goofed around, but you know, for some reason, and I think it's to protect ourselves from ourselves. You don't
have that realization. But my point is I do have that realization for Josh as a parent as a parent, and I have that realization for Taylor as her dad and watching her take these steps and watching Josh, you know, I I, well.
You're so right that you can't convey that to them. You can say it, but it doesn't sink in, like it's like self protection.
I spoke to me. I went back to Oklahoma City University where I went to college and played soccer, and I spoke to the team one time and they said, you know, my coach, who the late great Brian Harvey, was like, he called me Harry. He's like, Harry, you do have anything to say to the team? I said, yeah, enjoy everyfing moment. And what I meant by that is like I remember he used to you know, practice, practice sucked.
You're like, oh, it's hot or it's cold or it's whatever, and you're just running your brains out and getting yelled at. And I would give anything to know that. At two thirty every day I got to go play soccer, like what think of it? It's recess, but back then it was like a job, right. And so I told joshuas he's heading into this senior year because he's just kind of getting going, and I said, hey man, this is it.
I said, I don't expect you to understand what that means, but just go enjoy every moment and when you walk out there at practice or a game, just smile and know that you got your boys with you and this is it, like this is awesome, and just enjoy those moments more than anything because you take that last shot, you will have that last goal, and that you know, the game of life ticks down on everybody. And so I'm trying to also drink that in with you this season and go to more of his games and try.
And say, yeah, well, I mean I think there is exactly what you're talking about, some self preservation in not having that full awareness, because if you did, you'd be too sad to enjoy the moment. Yeah, there's also something triumphant and amazing and like, you know, yeah, I'm playing lacrosse and I'm a senior, and so you want that to be joyful. And I think I'm a little bit more like I don't stop and think about that stuff as much, but I kind of do it consciously because
I go back to this a lot. But I think it is because of my dad. Like I think that when my dad died, which was sudden. I realize I've said this before, but you don't know what life's going to throw at you, right, And so that applies in a multitude of ways that philosophy, Like I don't really like to stop and think, oh, this might be say you're moving out of a house. I don't want to stop and think, oh, you know, we're moving out of
this house. It's sad because I want to focus on where are we going and what's next, and like let's look at the happy stuff. And then also I just think, you don't know. For all you know, you could come back to this neighborhood. You don't know where life's going to go or what's where it's going to take you. So yeah, Josh, like a little bit where my mind goes is Okay, don't be sad because it's over. Be happy that it's happened. And yes, Josh is closing this
chapter of Lacrosse, but you know he hadn't. I mean, they went to champion, they were district champions. He had so many great.
Wills of the national tournaments.
Yeah, and I think, well, I hope he continues not in the same way, but I hope he like finds other ways to play lacrosse.
Well, and you bring up an interesting and.
I'm not saying you're like depressed and I'm just saying, you know, but.
I do look at things sentimentally. But I agree when when it's you, when you're in that moment, like when I was in college, Well, you're still competing, Like like Josh is competing now. He's not going to have this thirty thousand foot view of life and reflect on it now because he's trying to win. He wants to go, you know, to win the conference and go to the national championship again. And like you're trying to win, so
you don't stop and think. Also, by the way, this is it for me and so as an adult though, like when we moved out of the house in LA when we moved here to Austin, that's the house didn't have tremendous meaning for me. But at the same time, there were it was a it was a time a very interesting and special time in my life were the kids. I was a single dad, which was bizarre and crazy.
I never thought I would be, but I was. And I watched the kids grow up there, you know, going through elementary school, they went to middle school, went through high school in that house. So I remember when everybody was gone and the house was empty, and well, I just walked through the house. And you have these pictures that come up in your head, these videos, if you will, memories of taking pictures outside before dances, or you know, throwing Taylor her birthday, the mom and me a birthday
party that you and I threw her. Just stuff like that that just were sweet memories. Now I haven't thought about that house, and I didn't particularly like that house. I love this house fifty thousand times more. So it's not that I miss it or lament the fact that I'm gone, but I do hold some of those things to your And same thing with Joshua. You know, I remember driving home from Palm Springs. That's where his last
big club lacrosse tournament was. This thing called Sandstorm. You can drive out to Palm Springs, and I remember driving home and every year we would stop at the in and out Burger on the way home get a burger, and we'd drive home. And I pulled in and got a burger. I'm actually getting choked up thinking about it. I got a Hamburger and I literally tears come to
my eyes. And I was just thinking. I was looking across at this eighteen year old man, and I'm like, this is the last time I'm going to probably be in like a hotel room with him. Like I just was pick up in an out burger, coming home from a game, doing our thing, you know, where he's reliant on me. You know, he's a man, but he's not a man yet. So it just that crushed me and
I realized that was it. So some of these chapters closing, it's gratifying, exciting, you're so proud, but at the same time, it's okay to be sad and miss them.
I think I'm realizing we're different than this. Maybe part of it is that I don't like to be sad.
Okay, well, okay, so you mentioned you mentioned why year different, probably because of your dad and the way you reflect on life, but you didn't how does that translate then about how you see things.
I think that grief made me realize that the most the single most dangerous thing people can do, I feel, for their own mental health is to be stuck in a chapter of their life. Greed is to not move forward, is to when life throws the traumatic thing at you, to get lost in it and not keep going.
It then defines you the rest of your life.
Yeah, like the I mean, grief is part of my life for sure, but you can't let it define you exactly. And I think that, yeah, if people allow that, and I do think it's a choice, it can ruin your life.
So people who then, by the way, just to be clear, we're not saying forget, hey, move on, suck it up and move on and forget. It's not that, but it's just if you live in that.
You need to keep going. You need to move forward with your life. And I think that like because of that mentality, I just don't like to be sad when a chapter is closing. I like to think, Okay, well, what's the exciting thing we're doing. And I really can probably take a lesson from you in this that it is important to do what you're talking about and to soak in a moment, like to reflect, to think back on Like sometimes I think I don't think back on things enough, but you know it's out of fear of
thinking back on them too much. But yeah, like I would approach, you know, I want to allow the space for your very real emotions and feelings about like your child is growing up and you've done all this stuff as a parent, How could you not reflect on all that.
I so like, hear what you're saying. My first instinct would be to say, like, but yeah, but like now we're gonna have all these other great memories to be made with Josh, Like we're gonna watch you know, get his first job and then hopefully all these great times ahead. But I need to allow for the moment of reflection before the moving forward.
And I don't know, you know. And again, even thinking about just I always get so emotional, like they did
this to us on purpose, and it was beautiful. But when Taylor where Taylor went to school, they did a father daughter dance, which they do a lot of places, but one thing they did was there was a book and so every year they took a picture and you would sit down with your daughter and you would write things, different questions, different things, and a lot of times it would be the same questions, so every year would be
a little different answer, right. And the point is when you get to your senior year, they would give you this book and you see all these pictures. And I remember the very first father daughter dance. This is back when she was in elementary school. And I left the house. I went to go get flowers. I got all dressed up because I wanted to pick her up from from house.
I wanted to ring the doorbell. I wanted her to come to the door in her dress and see what it was like to be picked up on a date, how she should be treated that I brought her flowers and opened the door for her, et cetera. And then we're dancing that night, you know, and you know, it's back in the it's the cliche, it's the Steve Martin. You know, she's standing, she's standing on your shoes dancing, you know. And then next thing you know, you're at
her wedding and you can't help but flash forward. And it is the flashing forward which is what made me think of this. It's thinking forward of one day, God bless and God willing, I will be walking her down the aisle and I will be dancing that first dance with her at her wedding, But here I am now with her standing on my shoes, and that passage of time goes so quick, and you just you try to hold onto it as much as you can without, as you said, living in that moment and letting that define you.
You know, she's not always going to be a little girl. And I've loved every single stage that Taylor and Josh have been through. I truly have, and I'm excited for the next one. Taylor's in college and she's a sophomore. It's it feels like she'll be in college forever, doesn't it. Like Josh is a senior. You know, it goes quick, but it feels like Taylor's going to be at this place for a long time and it's only two more years.
Yeah. Well, And I also I struggle a little bit because sometimes I'm like, I don't want to think about that too much because I just want to enjoy the moment. You know, I'm realizing something as you're talking to like, maybe I struggle with the reflecting part because with my dad, I only have the past to look at.
No, He's made you emotional, Yeah.
Yeah, maybe that's part of it, is that, like I don't want to reflect because all I can do is look back. I don't have anything to look forward to, so that I did not expect this. On this podcast today we were like, let's do a quick little podcast about closing chapters. I should have known closing chapter that has a bigger connotation to.
Yeah.
I mean, maybe that's part of it. And I think maybe I do need to I for sure have a little bit of like a fear of reflecting too much, Yeah, because then exactly this will happen. Then I'll get sad. And maybe what I'm afraid of is getting stuck in that Like I just want to make sure I'm not getting stuck in that place.
The late great Jim Valvano, who I admired and liked very much. He was a famous basketball coach who famously died of cancer, and before he left, he gave one of the greatest speeches of all time at the SP's on the ESPN Sports Awards, and he said, every day you should laugh, you should cry, something should move you to tears, something should create that emotion, and you should think. And we've done all that in the matter of the
last twenty minutes. Let's close this chapter. Let's close this chapter. Thank you, thanks for sharing, and this is why I love our talks because we've both got emotional today, we both laughed and it's definitely given us a lot to think about. So thank you, Jim Valvano, and thank you for listening. Truly appreciate you, guys, and I hope you have taken a little something away from today's podcast. Always love it. We'll talk to you again next time because
we have a lot more to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most dramatic pod ever and make sure to write us a review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you next time.