The Playbook – Mind the Gap

This is the most dramatic podcast ever. And iHeartRadio podcast. Chris Harrison, Lauren Zema coming to you from the home office in Austin, Texas.

Coming to you with a sixteen and a half year age gap, everybody, that's what.

We're getting into today. Let's just rip that age band aid off. Is it different when an older man dates a younger woman as opposed to an older woman dating a younger man. Is it looked at through a different filter? Do we treat it different socially? Do we talk about them differently?

So part of the reason this is coming up is because, at the time of recording of this podcast, Kristin Cavaleri is taking getting a little heat online for dating a younger guy. Kristin is thirty seven and she is dating a twenty four year old. And I am here to say, no heat needed. And I think this is a total sexist thing that happens where yes, for some reason, well you know what, I know the reason, But it does seem to be more accepted for men to date a

But what do you think?

What is what do you think the stereotype? What's the reaction when a woman dates the younger guys?

I was also curious. I was going to ask the heat that she's catching. I'm curious how that breaks down as far as gender goes. Is she catching more heat from other women or is she catching heat for men?

You know what I mean? Interesting, No way to know the statistics, but.

Because I would guess men probably.

Well, that's why I wanted to ask you, what do you think what is the male reaction to this?

I bet men would say, don't care who Kristin Cavalet if she's AND's not just her, I just mean a woman dating a younger man. And typically what you also see is the success rate right of this is a very successful woman. She's able to date a younger guy, and I don't know why she would catch heat for that. They are but thirteen years apart. If my math is correct.

We're great at math here.

But you know that the only thing I would say she's that it is dabbling in the I wouldn't want her to go younger. And it's not the age gap, it's the age. Twenty four is young. But that is presumably I'm just assuming this person's graduated college. Usually you graduate twenty two to twenty three, maybe right at twenty four, so at least they are out of college. Movie.

We talk about the life place thing a lot, right, That's what I mean more of Yeah, I mean I think that for us is always a thing we talk about in age gap relationships. And by the way, I say this, what is an age cap?

You know what I mean? Like, is it ten years or more?

If it's less than ten years, do you have an age gap relationship.

I don't think there's a definitive scale there.

But I don't think we would have worked if, say, we'd both have been single, which we weren't, but if we'd started dating when I was in my early twenties and you were in your forties, because.

I would have had no I would have been in my thirties, sorry, late thirties. But the difference too is I would have had kids by then, because I had kids. So I have two young children and I'm dating a much younger woman who's definitely not in that life place.

Yeah, so life place difference. Do you both have kids? Do you both want kids? If you're fresh out of college, I think that can be tough because you might not have been in the working world yet you're still in that school mindset. But the most important factor to me in any relationship when it comes to age is really your maturity. Is how your maturity has developed and how you've allowed your life experiences to affect you.

I do think maturity is a choice.

And the reason I bring this up is because we're talking about the life place of young people.

But we know a lot of people still know a lot of people who are older and are totally immature.

Yeah, I complete knuckleheads have.

Not allowed their life experiences to affect them. Who are We know people older than us who are not good at relationships because they've never learned how to be good at relationships. I think if you're younger, you might have been through like, we don't know when life's going to.

Throw at us what it will.

People who are younger can have already been through the death of a parent or like a hard upbringing, versus someone who's much older might have never been through either of those things.

And I will say also, it'll probably force some conversations that need to be had sooner, Like you and I did, I wanted to make it clear, Hey, I'm not going to have more children. That's not in my future. Does that align with where you are in your life? Kristin Cavalary. I don't know where she is in her life as far as kids. But if this guy's twenty four, maybe

Well, you just.

Hit kind of hit something I wanted to bring up to, which, okay, So maturity is a factor. What you want where you're headed. Life place is a factor. But the other half of life place can be that the person who's older does not want something that serious right now, do you know what I'm saying, like Kristin Cavalery.

I was just going to say this too, that's funny that if it's a phase they're going through, but by the way, and it's okay, Like it's totally fine if this is just something you need to do.

Yeah, like I well, and I don't want to okay, But there's a difference there. I don't like the phase thing because phase makes it seem like again yeah like, and there's this thing like, oh, this older woman just wants to try dating a younger guy or something. I'm saying life place in that. Kristin Cavalre has talked a lot about how she and I've interviewed her before she got married, had three kids, you know, she got divorced a couple of years ago. She's been really outspoken of saying,

He's fabulous great. So, by the way, that's awesome. Good for them, and they've been quiet. I mean, I can't remember the last time I saw Share publicly doing anything odd. Side note, SHARE's house was two doors down from the original Bachelor mansion. Did really Yeah, she has a beautiful, sprawling estate overlooking the piece. Ever see her the Pacific Ocean? No? I mean, because what you see is the entryway to her villa asque like land.

You can't sneak into SHARE's house.

We tried, no, but it's funny. I was just she built that and like moved in while we were shooting those first couple of seasons at that old place on it's right on the pch right on the one one Highway overlooking the Pacific Ocean.

Gosh, she could have grabbed a bachelor.

Yes, good, but it's I like what you're saying in that. Look if they are happy with share, I love it. She's like, look, if you look at the statistics, No, this doesn't make any sense. It makes sense to us.

Well, you hit on something earlier, like when we're talking about why this is more common to see with men dating younger women than women dating younger men. I do think the success factor is a thing, and unfortunately you're not seeing as men. I would say that I don't have the statistics, but I would guess there's not as many single like free of dealing, you know, like like single super successful women who can date and provide like for a younger person. And I don't like that that Again,

Is the truth.

But typically I think these are that's not the situation you end up in.

And Sharon Madonna, these are big age gaps.

I will have questions in my mind about these age gaps. If this were a guy and a woman, I'd be like, I don't know, forty years is a lot, but you know they are they're able to do that and have that dynamic. Right now, if you were single, how much older of a woman would you date?

Well, when I was single, I dated I think up to five years older than me. Okay was the oldest woman that I dated. I dated everything I really did across the spectrum. I didn't really pay attention to age at all to a certain degree. I mean, obviously, you don't want to go too young because then you just start losing things that you have in common and there's no you know, it's hard to have those commonalities and views on life and et cetera. But I didn't mind old,

I am totally just injecting my own life into it. But I think when you get beyond twenty years that that's when it starts to raise questions for me, because then you're really starting to get into going back to life place, like what era of your life you're in, you.

Know what I mean? Like you can be.

Sixty and dating a forty year old and you're kind of both still active and like well and living, and but if you're like eighty dating a forty year old, it's just a very different life place.

Well, I think what you were saying earlier is true. It's like, how do you define age gap? And at what age? I think there's this tremendous spectrum in this gray area, and then there's just that thing that you look at and you know it's not right, right, you know, I think we can. It's just that doesn't pass the smell to us. You're just like, Okay, that's it. I don't know what what it is, but that's it. Like again, Crystal Hefner and Hugh Hefner when she was twenty.

One and year on the podcast.

Yeah, and she was on the podcast and I'm like okay, like, yeah, no, that's not okay with that. That's not right. No, that's not right. And and who am I to decide? I don't know, just in my own world, that just doesn't fit because I don't see anybody mutually benefiting from that, and I think that's where.

The power dynamic is where, Yeah, the power.

Dynamics way off and the mutual Like in a relationship, you should mutually benefit off of each other, you should be a value add to each other's lives. I don't see that for a twenty one year old and an eighty year old, or even a twenty year old and a sixty five year old, I would go, I'd take twenty years off that, which is crazy to take sixty Yeah, you could take twenty years off that and still Okay, what you'd really have to prove? What is this dynamic that's healthy for everybody here?

I think it's easier to play with a bigger age gap in the middle of our lives, like if you're thirties, forties.

Fifty, or you and I are right now.

Yeah, I think, well, because you're both people have established a career a little bit, know who they are. They're not in the figuring out well maybe they haven't figured themselves out yet, but both people have probably been working hopefully figured out who they are a little bit and are both still like very active working, not you know, in the retired phase or the whatever when you get in those extremes like twenties and sixties and set like.

Well back to Christian Cavalary, I mean, y'all aren't far off in age. That means you're dating a twenty four to twenty three year old. Okay, I can't see you. I can't see you. Like, what do you think when I say that to you? No, you're dating someone a year older than my son.

Yeah, No, that certainly puts it in perspective.

I when what's funny is we were just with the kids at and we took them out like and to dinner and stuff at their school a couple of weeks ago, and I really had a thought for a moment because I was talking to your daughter, our daughter Taylor, about dating, and I was like looking around because we were at this bar and looking at these boys, and I thought to myself, I don't mean this to sound me, but I thought to myself, how did I ever want to date a twenty year old boy?

So much has changed in our world, and so much has.

Not right, They're all still having the same drama.

And these are the same conversations. It's the same bullsh It's the same drama that we all went through thirty years ago, forty years ago, twenty years ago, ten years ago. I don't care what technology you implement. And I will say, going back to reality television and The Bachelor, that's why the show worked because so much can change relationships, don't Our need for companionship and the mistakes we make achieving that do not change.

And the obsessiveness.

I mean, that's the thing when I talk to you, know, our kids and their friends right now, is that no matter how much new information they have, I mean they all now have We all now have cell phones with access to insane amounts of information on how to be in relationships, on our mental health, on all that, and they are all still making all the same relationship mistakes.

That I made, that you made.

They are all still falling obsessively in love, obsessing over crushes. Maybe it's just that our hormones are they're not adapting right.

Your brand is barely formed and your hormones are raging. And you're at this weird life place too because you're on your own and you're trying to play grown up. Yeah, well you want to fall in love and you're trying to play grown up, but you're not yet because you're not really fully on your own. You're like, I'm my own woman, are you? Because you have your dad's credit card, you don't pay for your car, you don't pay for your cell phone, so you're independent, but you're not. So

Yeah, well, and again I will say like experiences.

Right, A twenty two year old who's been in college having their parents support them is going to be at a different maturity level than a twenty two year old who like didn't go to college and has been working on their own since they're eighteen and supporting themselves and paying their own bills.

That's going to be different.

Now, I did date someone who was younger than me right before you and I got together, right And.

The last person you dated before me, yes was.

Young, was younger than me, and actually had lied to me about how much younger than me he was. I thought he was only two or three years younger than me. He was actually like eight, seven or eight years younger than me. And I now listen.

He was great, but you said you could kind of tell.

As we kept dating.

I was like, oh, he's a little more immature than I realized. Okay, And so then when he revealed that to me, I thought, oh, that makes sense. But so I broke up with him and he.

Was We had this conversation.

He's like, why, Like, we're really great together, and I said to him, you.

Are really great.

If our timing, our place had been different, this might be different. But I'm like, dude, like, I'm someone who's been divorced. Yeah, you've never even been engaged. We are in such different life places. We've had different experiences to this point, and our we were not aligned on that, and so like, did we have stuff in common?

Sure, but we weren't going to work out.

But to your point, the last person I dated before you, she was older than me, and that chemistry and that life place and that vision still wasn't there. So does it have to do with age or is it just like you said, the life place? And what I find interesting with Kristin Cavalary. I don't know Kristin and I don't know this young man she's dating, but she's very successful. I know this about her. I know her life on a public scale, she's very successful, she's been in the limelight.

Is he?

That's a lot? That's a lot to be shot out of a cannon in face? I mean, you know, does Kristin Cavalary want to get away from that? And that's why she's dating this young man? You know? Is he a departure from all that? Because that's a lot for a twenty four year old to step into social media, the limelight every you know, Look, the reason we're doing this topic is because she's catching heat for it. So that's what this young man would be facing. That's a lot for a twenty four year old.

Yeah.

Like, I think the takeaways are life place, maturity, power, dynamic to be aware of that both parties. I think my like, I'm not saying thirty seven and twenty four is the perfect age gap relationship. I don't think it is generally, but I do think it's unfair for women to get judged for it more than men.

For women to be seen.

I think what it is is women are like seen as sad for doing it, and men aren't.

Men are like, yeah, oh cool, you know what I'm saying, which is commonplace, right. Yeah.

I think that's the general reaction from people that people think, like, what's wrong with this woman and all that sitting dinner trying to stay young.

We were sitting at a dinner last night with friends, and we were with three couples, us being one of the three couples. All of them had the same dynamic older husband, younger wife. No, you know, we know one about it an eyelash. And it's interesting if I said, Kristin Cavalary is forty years old, and you know she's dating a thirty seven year old or a thirty three year old. Sorry to do the math that thirteen year age gap. It's when you slide that gap that makes

Oh, it feels a little better.

You mean, yeah, so there's a thirteen year age gap between Kristin and this young man. But if you slide that gap, like you said, oh, you know, Kristin Cavalary's you know, forty three and she's dating a thirty year old man.

I'm telling you it feel it's for some reason we're talking about the feeling. It feels a little more. Okay, if people are in their thirties, forties, fifties.

Because you assume they have more life experience, they've probably been professional in whatever profession they're in. They've become a little more mature.

But I'm not going to green light share in Madonna's relationships.

I think those just like I think gets off that al Pacino is like eighty one dating a thirty year old.

I agree.

I think I love Share, I love Madonna, and they are divas who have achieved things beyond what I will ever dream of achieving.

But I think a forty year age gap is tough. I think that's it. I don't know about that.

It's it's funny because it's how we need our Share and our Madonna to be. They are. They are icons in our world, and so I just think, like, Okay, you know, I'm going to give them a pass. I don't love it. It's not right. Same thing with you know, Paccino and de Niro, or you know, having babies when they're eighty five, with twenty year olds. Some women, I don't I'm not Yeah, I agree, I'm not going to sign off on it. Now. Where is that age gap? I don't know that. That's just not it though they