This is the most dramatic podcast ever. And iHeartRadio podcast Chris Harrison Lauren z mcomedy from the home office in Austin, Texas, And today we're talking about divorce. Don't worry, it's not ours, but could divorce be positive? Could it be a positive experience? And I'll be honest, I did not know the phrase that I'm going to say to you right now, divorce coach. I had not heard of a divorce coach. Didn't know what it was. I was reading an article and saw
the headlines, as many of us have. Former Bachelor lums Brian Abassolo and Rachel Lindsay are going through a divorce. Apparently it's pretty toxic, and Brian has urged us to use a divorce coach. He's using one. He's been very open about this, and I found it intriguing because Elsie, honestly, I didn't know when I came to you and you said.
No, I had never heard of a divorce coach.
So we just wanted to explore what this is, and, like we said, just kind of sought in passing headlines. But as two divorce as we were curious did we make a mistake?
Should not have the product of divorce. Yeah, you and I have both been through them.
So we have used a divorce coach.
So we got in touch with Tara Eisenhardt and she sounds like one of the best of the best. She has been a divorce coach for well over a decade. She studied divorce coaching. She is known as a pioneer in the field. She is trained in mediation, Advanced mediation, Family mediation. She's completed training in conflict coaching, collaborative law, nonviolent communication, active parenting, and dissolving conflict from within, and in twenty nineteen achieved the status of CDs Certified Divorce
Specialist through the National Association of Divorce Professionals. So we are so excited to welcome this expert in divorce coaching and to learn about what this is. We are going to get into how much it costs, what exactly a divorce coach does, and with one whether or not you need one.
She is a six degree black belt in divorce.
Please welcome Tara Eisenhard.
And Tara joins us. Now, first of all, thank you for joining us. It's good to have you on the show.
Thank you, happy to be here.
As Lord and I were just talking about in the intro. Until the recent headlines, we hadn't heard of a divorce coach, which is ironic because my parents are divorced. Lauren and I have both been through a divorce, and I think, man, did we miss something? Like we should have found this on a good gues I feel like this might have been a daily and a lot of dollars short. But Tara, let's start off by what is a divorce coach and why do we need one?
All right, so there are I want to start by saying there are different kinds of divorce coaches with different backgrounds, that we work differently. So the way that I work, I like to tell people I'm here for the human side of the process. I believe divorce is a human process with a legal document attached to it. And so while people are working on gaining legal document, they're dealing with changing relationships. They're dealing with the need for self
care and setting boundaries and having difficult conversations. And That's what I'm there for. And I'm a coach, not a therapist. So that's also a really important distinction. Coaching is a directional process, whereas therapy goes deep I don't unpack emotional baggage. I don't make diagnoses or anything like that. I don't deal with childhood trauma. My work is very much focused on where are you right now? What are the challenges
you're dealing with. How can we help you to move forward by taking some next steps or shifting mindset.
Not as much looking backwards as much as let's move forward, and how can we do so in a healthy, positive way exactly. I find it interesting that you made this choice to this is your calling and became your passion, because obviously it's something you went through your parents and you got divorce. You've been broken up with and you've broken up with people. But it's funny that you decided, Okay, I'm going to go into this, I'm going to study divorce.
What was that light bulb moment where you're like that, I want to now figure this out.
Yeah. So when my parents got divorced back in the previous millennium, it started off. I told you, they didn't give me all the information upfront. I didn't know how things were going to go. It was really scary. It was nerve wracking. But ultimately what I learned from that process is that it was a benefit to my family, and my parents' relationship improved as a result of their divorce, and so my life improved, My family got better, and I grew up from there on thinking that divorce was
a solution to a problem. And then I got married, and when I got divorced, we realized that it was the solution to the problem that our marriage was and I was really happy about that, but nobody was happy for me. And that was the first time I realized how toxic, yeah, how toxic our culture is around divorce. Everybody was angry for me. They were sad for me. They were telling me that I need to, you know, take them to the cleaners, whatever. And I didn't feel
that way. So I started looking why does divorce make people crazy? What is going on? Why do we look at it this way? And I read every book that I could find, and I listened to the experts that I could find, and eventually I started a blog because my friends and family got sick of listening to me talk about divorce all the time. Years after I got divorced, and then I just kind of it went from there. Once I joined Twitter, that was when I found a divorce coach, and I thought, oh my gosh, that's it.
That's exactly what I want to.
Do, Tara.
My first instinct would it be a maybe top level service level, but would it be a faiish analogy to say, you're almost like a midwife helping someone through labor, Like you're not the doctor, but you're a midwife.
Yes. Actually, another thing that I like to say is that divorce is a birth. So yes, absolutely midwife.
Oh love that a birth, a rebirth.
I was reading through your bi and one thing I absolutely loved that you said in your bio. And I'll just read a few quotes from here because they're all great, but you say of yourself, she has been cheated, she has been left, she has left, she has been broken, and put herself back together. And what I love here is that you say that you refuse to view divorce as a problem. You prefer instead to see it as
a solution. And that's something that Chris and I say a lot, Like we recently did a Q and A on the podcast and someone asked us, how do you know when it's time to get divorced? And as we were answering that, like one of the things I said was. I think it's really hard because I think overall people view divorce as this failure, is this very negative thing, and I think, you know, for me, I thought, look, I had my marriage, I tried at it, I learned
a lot from it. Mistakes were made, but ultimately it was better and more positive to move forward separately. And so do you find that that's an issue people like that you have to talk through people with or is that part of your job to help them reframe divorce.
Yes, that's a really big one for people. As a culture, we tend to prize marriage and despise divorce, and so people going through divorce they think they're a bad person or a bad parent, they think that they're a bad partner, and none of that is true. I really believe that, you know, people change all the time. I'm not the same person I was six minutes ago, let alone six months ago, let alone six years ago. And relationships change too,
And that's okay, it's normal, it's healthy. Sometimes a marriage runs its course and it's simply complete, and it's time to move on and find something new, starting a new chapter in a new way of relating.
I said in the same conversation, It's how I felt in my divorce is when I could no longer affect change. I couldn't bring happiness to my spouse, I couldn't bring happiness to my own life. I couldn't affect that change. Neither could she. So we amicably decided to move on. And Laura and I are both proponents of a positive you know, look, it can't always be amicable. We wish it could. It can't, but you know, at least a positive divorce, and that's what I like that you put
a positive spin on it. You are not the let's get them screw them, It is trying to it sounds like work within the parameters of what we got and make the best of it.
What are some of the things that you typically find yourself advising people on, like overall the most common issues that you see and how you kind of help people reframe and better the situation that they're in as they're working through a divorce.
Well, shame is a really big one, so we talked about that a little bit. I talk a lot about reframing this so that they can feel good about themselves, so that they can feel good about their relationship, and so that they can also help their children to feel
good too. This is a really big one that comes up because a lot of times people don't necessarily think about They think about the kids, but they don't think about the kids in terms of children need to feel good about where they came from, and they need to know that their parents are good people, that they love them, that they support them. And so I talk about that as well, and how can we position that it's not just for you, but also for the whole family, the
story of how this family is moving forward. And on that note, I also talk to people a lot about how to talk to their kids about the divorce, how to talk to other people about their divorce, and how to take care of themselves throughout that process. And when I talk about self care, I say that it's about three main things. Self care is about respecting yourself, protecting yourself,
and investing in yourself. And so I dive into each of those components with people as they're navigating this process, whether that means that they need to eat better food, they need to set better boundaries, or they need to look at their goals for the future.
Can we back up and kind of dive into the kid thing. I'm very interested in that because as I was going through my divorce, I had young kids, and I know that people listening right now are going through that similar situation. What are some keys that we can take way? What are some things you could help us with about communicating with our kids as we go through divorce.
So it's really important that you consider the age and stage of children. Kids who are younger have a the You know, their cognitive function isn't there at adulthood yet, and so they tend to be very self centered view the world. According to them, these are where you want to focus on. It's not your fault. There's nothing that you did wrong, you couldn't have behaved better to keep your parents together. That kind of message is really important for younger children as they get older. They want to
know how does this impact me? What's going to happen next? And really that's important at any stage. But it's not your fault. Isn't quite so important for teenagers as it is for younger kids, but everybody wants to know what does this mean, What does this mean for me? What does this mean for my family? What can I expect next? And when is it going to happen? And so when I coach people on talking to their children. I coach
them around that as well. Don't tell them we're going to get divorced at some point in the future and we don't know. Kids get really anxious. They want to know what is happening. And that happened to me with my parents too. They had the big discussion. I overheard the fight. They said to me, yeah, we're probably going to get divorced. We don't know, but we'll let you know. And in the meantime, I came up with all kinds of scenarios in my head. I determined what their divorce
needed to be. And when they told me what was happening, and it wasn't what I had anticipated, it was very upsetting. So it's really important to just be there for kids. Let them know that you know, we're still your parents, we're still a family, We're going to work through this together, and this is exactly what you can expect moving forward. I also tell people to have ongoing family meetings with their kids too.
Kids need boundaries and facts and clarity versus well if and when and with yeah God, and like.
You said, as soon as my kids realize they're okay, oh, I can still go to my own school. I'm still going to soccer practice, I'm still going to have a sleepover at Timmy's. Christmas still exists, Like okay, I'm okay, because their world still exists. So it was just reassuring them of those things was really helpful.
Absolutely one thing.
I because I didn't have kids, by the way, But as you're just saying that, honey about like their soccer practice and all that, is it important once when the divorce is happening, to keep things as similar as they were before, or is there do you advise on any level like, Okay, this is kind of your new life now, and here's what's maybe exciting about your new life.
You tell me what's the right way to handle that?
Well, a little bit of both. And I always tell people that you can listen to all of the experts. You can listen to the podcast, you can read all the books. Nobody knows your family better than you. So when I'm coaching parents, I always remind them of that to bring their own expertise into this conversation. They know their kids, they know what their kids' boundaries are, they know what their kids' anxieties are, and as they're navigating the space. It's very important for them to consider that
in the ways that they're talking to their children. So some kids might be really excited about a new beginning and they want to move to a new house, and they want to decorate a new bedroom, and they want to go to a new school and meet new friends. And I can't imagine that, but I think there's some kids out there that might feel that way. And in that case, yeah, go ahead, hype it up and say, yeah, there's going to be all of these new changes and
it's really exciting. And some kids will just turn it into a ball of anxiety about any of those things. And so for that case, it's really important to maintain routines, maintain structure, look at the things that are staying constant and steady, and still position those new changes as something that is an opportunity as opposed to something more negative.
I like to, you know, encourage people to use words like curious instead of nervous, really curious to see how this is going to play out, what this is going to look like, and you know, just be interested and curious throughout the process.
I saw someone say recently that the biggest they it was a doctor, and she was saying that she thinks the biggest barrier people have to happiness is an inability to change, like an inability to be flexible, because life will change and it will keep coming at you. So I love that. I want to get back a little bit to the divorce coach. What is it? And like Chris and I said, we were just as we saw this in some headlines recently. We were both so blown away that we didn't know divorce coaches existed.
When do you.
Typically come into the picture, Like do you find that you are advising people on whether to get divorced or not? Or are you typically called when the decision has already been made? How much do you advise on should you get divorced versus Okay, you're getting divorced, let me help you from here, all right?
So I never tell people whether or not they should get divorced. That is not right. Once again, that is not my area of expertise. People know their marriage better than I ever could. But I do come into the process at all stages of the process, and typically when I'm working with people in the very beginning, something that I do recommend to them if they don't know, if they're on the fence, you know, should I stay or
should I go? There's some resources out there. There are discernment counselors who are specifically trained in helping couples have that conversation and make that decision. There's a lot of fact finding that people can do within themselves, within their marriage. I always tell people's self awareness is the root of
your personal power. So when you know yourself, you know your goals, your values, your feelings, your needs, you're able to take the action that's going to help you to get better, whether that means that you're staying and you're having tough conversations or you know that it's time to go. I also come in when people have made the decision and they don't know what kind of process they want,
So I talk to people about the different processes. What is, you know, mediation versus having separate attorneys versus sitting at the kitchen table and doing it yourself. What are the pros and cons of these kinds of things, What are their appetites for these different processes and things like that. And of course when they're in the thick of it co parenting, talking to other people helping their kids through this.
Those are the big discussion items at that time, and then also afterwards, because you know, you never stop being divorced, and if you have children, you'll never stop being co parents. So there's issues that linger long after. The ink is.
Driving a degree very much so. And you know, look, if you can, if it's somewhat amicable and you can make it through mediation, that's wonderful. It's a very nice way to go through it. But things usually and things always end because it's not good. You know, no one says this marriage was too good. Let's get a divorce. We're too happy. So let's deal with toxicity and someone going through a really bad divorce. Because I know people listening right now are either in that or have been
through that. That I'm sure is altogether different style of coaching and different advice that you might have for people.
Absolutely, if the situation is more toxic, it becomes all about the boundaries. And I do a lot of coaching with people where I try to help them understand that ideally their boundaries would lead to changed behavior from the other person. But it's sort of like when you're up against a fire breathing dragon and you have a shield. The dragon's not going to stop breathing fire. That's just
what they do. So having good boundaries and knowing that the boundaries are helping you even if they're not necessarily impacting the other person, that mindset is incredibly powerful.
You've mentioned boundaries a couple of times. Can you give us kind of specific examples of what that means in our lives?
Yeah, boundaries mean different things in different situations. But a lot of times when I'm talking about boundaries with xes, I'm talking to people about what mode of communication is most appropriated for them. Sometimes people can have a conversation in public. Sometimes they can talk on the phone. Sometimes they need to do everything in writing. Sometimes they need to use a co parenting app. Sometimes it needs to
go through their lawyers. In conversations with people, it's important to have boundaries to know that when things go off the rails that you either need to bring it back on track and follow that agenda, because every conversation when you're dealing with an X, you need to have an agenda. What is the purpose of this conversation, because otherwise you're going to end up five years ago when somebody burned
the turkey at Thanksgiving and that doesn't help anybody. So you've got to have good boundaries for that too, when you're in those moments, bringing things back to where they need to be, or even exiting those conversations if they become unproductive.
So true, I was just thinking that before you started talking.
The first thing I thought was communication, because we have so many methods through which we can communicate now, and I can't even imagine what it's like to go through a toxic breakup today because how hard must it be to not pick up the phone and fire off the texts and the calls and stalk them on Instagram and all these things.
Well, and it's also top you know, when you have kids. It's like, yeah, you know, if there's no kids involved, the break can be a little better because you could just not reply.
But well it's cleaner, you can end. Yeah, at some point. But Tara, how long have you been doing the divorce coach thing?
Oh goodness? I started. Actually I did my divorce coach training in twenty ten, okay, so about fourteen years.
So I was curious and that that is actually around like when social media started. I was just curious, having been someone who's you know, divorced, yourself and now doing this a long time.
How have you seen the rise of social media?
Because we're really sort of talking as a society now about you know, we're a little over ten years into living with social media. How much it's affected divorces happening or the way divorces go down, just different trends, Like, have you noticed or seen changes in what kind of difference it makes. I'm almost curious if people are getting divorced more because social media exists, and maybe it makes it easier to cheat or for problems to happen.
I don't know, what do you think? What are you seeing?
Well, social media absolutely makes it easier for people to cheat and for problems to happen. That's just kind of a given. We're much more connected the way that we interact with people, whether that is you know, our old high school sweethearts that we're connecting with on social media, or classmates from around the world that we're now in an online classroom with. It's changed the way that we meet with people. It's changed the way that we talk to people and the way that we relate. So there's
definitely a new complication that's thrown in with that. Another thing that I'm seeing with social media. On the good side is that it has given people access to new resources and new kinds of just people professionals that they might not have otherwise I thought of. So divorce coaching
is a big one. Mediation is another one that I'm seeing more and more people know that they're looking for a mediator, and they're looking for a mediator because they know what it is, not that somebody said that it's a way to save money. So there's a lot of learning opportunity about divorce that is coming from social media. However, there's also a lot of really bad advice out there.
And I always tell people you can find a lot of great support groups online, but you need to remember that those people are not your attorney and they do not know your situation.
I'm so interested also in how much the divorce coach process you mentioned earlier. You know, they're not your attorney, but you kind of maybe work with people who are currently employing attorneys. I'm sure how much do you work, Like do you speak to the attorney at all? Do you just advise the person who's getting divorced? Do you talk through some of the like say they're really mad because the X ones you know, I don't know the
house in North Carolina are something. How much do you weigh in on those fights that are happening and some of the arguments that are coming up through the legal process.
So as a private coach, I do not get in any case. I do not touch the legal process with a ten foot poll. I don't always tell people I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to those things, don't listen to me. So as far as what they're asking for, what they think that they want to fight for, what their strategy might be, I don't coach on that. What I do coach them on is themselves their self awareness again going back to that self
awareness is the root of your personal power. So we look at things like if they're thinking that they want to get the house, then we look at things like, okay, well, what's your budget and are you planning to stay in this area? What are your goals for the future, what kind of resources do you have, what's your tolerance for cleaning a house that big and mowing that lawn and
those kinds of things. So I'm helping them to look at those kinds of aspects of their process and themselves so that they can make the decisions that are the most aligned with them. Now, I do have a job actually with a family law firm, and that's pretty awesome because I'm the on staff client coach and I do get to talk to the attorneys, so I understand a little bit more about the legal process of my people that I'm coaching. However, I still don't get involved in that strategy.
I found that after I got divorce. There's a little bit of judgment people have if they think you're starting to date again too soon, And I wondered if you've seen that, and also like, do you keep working with people once the divorce is final on how they move forward from there maybe dating again.
I do work with them on moving forward after the divorce's final. I am not a dating coach again.
Not my wheelhouse, Sarah, you are so good at setting boundaries.
That actually is my wheel house. That one is my wheelhouse.
It is. But there are people out there who are really great dating coaches who can help people set up their profile and get the best picture in all of them those things, and so part of my work with people after divorce might be to say, hey, go find one of these coaches if you're looking to get into the dating pool and be serious about it. As far as when people start to date after divorce, it really is just a matter of personal opinion and personal readiness.
I always tell people that you want to make sure that you're healed first. There's a great phrase out there that floats around the internet, a great quote that says, you know, if you don't heal what hurt you, you're gonna bleed on people who didn't cut you. And that happens a lot when we see people who are just looking to fill the void that the divorce has left, and so they're out there just trying to be with
somebody else. And another thing that I like to tell people is that the relationship you have with yourself is the one that is going to last for the rest of your life. So it is much more important that you invest in that relationship. Get comfortable with yourself, learn to live with yourself, learn to live alone with yourself health, and feel whole before you start to look for another person, because another person can't complete.
You, especially when you know when people have gotten married at such a young age. I did that, and you don't even know who you are as an adult because you've never been alone and so you don't know if you're independent, if you are dependent, and so being comfortable with yourself and living and it's so much healthy for your kids too, Like to dive into that, make sure everybody's good, and then then you can move on feeling really good about who you are and where you are.
It is.
That's great advice. Like I remember feeling guilty Tara about like when I was, you know, thinking about dating of like, Okay, what if I'm seen out in public being you know, somewhat of a public figure. You know, what does that represent? How does that? And it was funny how how guilty I felt about moving on?
Well what other people think of you as none of your business.
Where were you when I needed you twelve years ago?
I want to bring to you a quote, and I know that you said, I'm interested in what you think of this because I know you'd mentioned that you don't necessarily help people decide that they're going to get a
divorce or you don't do that at all. But part of the reason that we wanted to talk to you was there's an alum from Chris's show from The Bachelor Bachelorette World who had said he used a divorce coach, and he said, quote, if you are thinking of separating, find a divorce coach so you don't make a decision by reaction but through clarity.
What would you say to that?
Yes, absolutely, and you don't necessarily need a divorce coach. Obviously there's a lot of us out there and we're happy to help. But the important thing is to have that clarity within yourself and that you're not making need your emotional reactions, because if you're doing that, then you're just you're not really responding to anything and thinking through.
I have all good divorce principles thing where I say that, you know, geez for goals, the first O is for options, or I'm sorry, the first O is for observation without judgment. Then you need to look at your options and keep your dignity intact. And it's really important to look at those options to be able to think through things and say, Okay, which one of my options is going to get me closer to my goals? Not just that person hurt me. I want to hurt them back. Look how hard I can hit?
And that really that surmises most divorces in our philosophy of like try not to get hit and try to hit them hard and make them pay for whatever you have, you know made up in your mind, and so having that mindset is huge, or having someone in your life that can help you get to that mindset. It's so important.
What pains me a lot.
And we have several couples we know who have gotten divorced or who are even in the process of getting divorced. It pains me to see. And I'm not saying divorce attorneys aren't important. You need them for many reasons, but a lot of money get spent in the process of getting divorced. Can a divorce coach help you in any on some level in terms of alleviating some of that?
What do you think?
Yes, absolutely so. A lot of times. One of the things that happens that drives legal fees is that people see divorce as a war, and they you know, they draw their their battle lines, they collect their allies, they hire their general to strategize their battle, and that's their attorney, and then they go to that person with everything and they say, here's what's happening now, what should I do?
Where sometimes people are just lonely and they want to talk to their attorney and they know that this person is on my side. This person I know without a doubt this person is on my side because I'm paying and so I want to tell them everything, and I feel like we have a really good rapport. And so those kinds of things can happen where people are just telling their attorney everything. They're giving their attorney information that
doesn't really have to do with the legal process. They're just complaining about things that the attorney can't do anything about. And so one of the things that I work with people on is choosing and using their team players wisely. To remember that your lawyer is not your therapist, Your best friend is not your attorney, That random person on
the internet is not your financial advisor. Make sure that you're working with the right people who are understanding and aligned with your goals, and that you're using them to the best of their ability and that will make the best use of your money.
That's huge.
Yeah, Well, as I'm listening to you, I'm just thinking, gosh, divorce is such a big thing, right. It's even if we're not viewing it negatively, it's still monumental. It's one of the most defining experiences that people will potentially go through in their life, just like marriage. So it certainly makes sense to choose your team wisely and have the best people on your side. And on that note, I don't know how much you want to answer, but well, how.
Much does a divorce coach cost?
It depends. The answer is always it depends. So the way that I work, I have a regular hourly rate. I charge one hundred dollars an hour for people who just want to have a call and go over whatever the hot button issue is. Sometimes people want to talk to me once a week. Sometimes I talk to them once in the beginning, and then I hear from them three months later and they're like, hey, all this crap happened and I want to unpack it and you know, decide what to do. So I have a lot of
people who just work with me. AM very good about just meeting people where they are whatever they need, let's just dive in, let's talk about the challenges, and let's find a way through it. I also have online courses that have different price points. There's different coaches out there that will do a lot of larger coaching packages. So they will do you know, a six month program for instance with people, and those can you know, cost a
few thousand dollars. If people want to book, you know, a bunch of sessions with me, then we can negotiate a lower price for a bundle. But there's just different ways that people work and everybody's a little bit different. That goes right back to choose and use your team players wisely. So figure out how you want to work with somebody, figure out what they do as far as how they offer to help. Some divorce coaches do have a legal background, so they can help on the strategy side.
All just depends.
Yeah, well, I think one thing I've learned a what a divorce coach is, and that very useful when you're in the middle of that tempest and it feels like the waves are crashing on top of you. It is so much easier said than done to hey, think clearly, you know, and so to have somebody who can think clearly with you and to walk you through those steps because you know, you mentioned something very simple of it's so easy to get into a divorce and say, screen you I want the house, and it's nice to have
somebody who's like do you want the house? Like, really do you want?
When you said, do you think about do you want to clean a house? That big?
I thought, Oh my gosh, these are no one thinks of the logistics.
They just want the house to spre you. I want it because I don't want you to help.
Yeah, it's like they think I want the house. They don't think, well, what about actually owning that house? And I think another big thing is just oftentimes when people are going through divorce, it's the first time you've ever done this right, and just like anything else, like with parenting, we take parenting classes and it makes sense that going on your first time going through something, it would really help to have an expert helping you along the way.
Tara, thank you so much for joining us for shedding such a bright light on divorce coaches.
Yes, and if people want to get in touch with you, Tara, how can they?
What's the best way?
The best way to get in touch with me is through my website. It's Tara eisenheart dot com. I'm also on LinkedIn, I'm on Facebook, I'm on x although I don't really post there too much, but I'm there, and I'm on Instagram and TikTok.
Thank you all right, sounds good. I have a great day.
Thank you you too. Bye.
So helpful like that, that is, It's funny you and I both were, so I'll.
Be honest, I think I was a little skeptical of it at first. Here's why sometimes I get a little skeptical. Like you know how like everybody knows someone who became a life coach.
Right.
I know she's not a therapist, and she was clear about that, but it's a specific type of therapy.
And I think that's why I like it. It's not just life coach.
It's I'm getting you through this specific process that has a whole set of hurdles to overcome.
And as somebody you know, because it divorce is nothing if not emotional, because it's dealing with your emotions, and so you are very emotional, very volatile. And that's on a you know, a positive good divorce, you know, much less a very toxic, bad one. So to have somebody that could just say stop, I'm in your corner, but let's talk about this and walk you through this, and or things are going badly to hey, you need to
work on setting up these boundaries. And I'm going to help you and and to know that this person wants what's best for you at the end is a wonderful thing. So yeah, I you know, we started this by saying, you know, Brian Avisola is the one that introduced us to the term divorce coach, and I have to say, Brian, You're onto something. This is a very good idea.
Tara is available at Tara Eisenhard dot com and her last name is E I S E N H A r D dot com.
Thank you again to Tara and everybody. We will talk to you next time.
Because divorce can be positive and we have a lot more to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most Dramatic pod ever and make sure to write us a review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you next time.