This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast. Chris Harrison and Lauren Zema coming to you from the home office in Austin, Texas on a very special Father's Day edition of the most dramatic podcast ever. And this is an important podcast I wanted to do today because there are these weeks of the year, well really all holidays that hit differently for different people. Mother's Day, Father's Day among them, because unfortunately, not everybody has their mom
and dad with them. And this is a perspective that I have really gained thanks to my first guest today, Lauren Zema.
Oh wow, guests, Well, I mean.
Really today's I have two very special guests day. One of them is you and then another is a doctor Chris Taylor, who is you know, has twenty years of experience in therapy and in especially twenty years experience in parent teen expert and helping families. And what I wanted to really dive into today because you gave me this amazing perspective once we got married, was you know, Father's
Day hits different. Your father, Gary Zema, an amazing dad to three beautiful children, is no longer with us, and so these days these weeks are so different for you.
Yeah, I actually did a little video for Experience Camps where I volunteer about this weekend because we talk about it a lot in the grief community, because yeah it you know, you see a Father's Day card display and that's like this little kind of mini punch to the gut, you know, and years ago for me, it was a bigger punch to the gut. Like one thing that I do want to say and while and it makes me excited to have this expert come on, is because I'm
a little bit removed from like those first years. I mean, I lost my dad almost fifteen years ago now, and from a positive perspective and not from a viewpoint of like forgetting about your person. I want to tell grieving people it gets better. Time does help. But I think he'll be good to help remind us and give pointers for if you're like fresher into loss and loss can also be you know, I don't know, was your dad never in your life?
Was that person? You know?
Did you never know your dad because then Father's Day hurts in a different way, or did your parents split up and maybe now you're estranged or there's all kinds of different loss and grief, and it does make these holidays hit a little bit. So I have my ways of dealing with it, which we can talk to with him about. But let's bring him on because I want to get into his expert opinions on all these different types of loss and how to navigate on.
Chris Taylor twenty years of experience, passionate about helping families. He's also an accomplished author speaker, and he joins us now.
Chris, thanks for being with us.
I feel like you might be the easiest guest name to remember we've ever had, because we have my Chris here and his daughter's name is Taylor. So thank you for your convenience and your expertise.
Yeah, no, awesome. I always joke I've never met a Chris I didn't like.
So well, it's weird how handsome we all are.
I feel like that's true, and I think we're like, what three fifths of the Avengers something like that.
That's true. I always lose out to Hymnsworth in the favorite Chris category.
I know in those polls they'll do like brackets and I love you, babe, But Hamsworth does usually be check and proud.
But anyway, Chris, thank you for joining us on a very special Father's Day edition. And I wanted to kind of dive in with you and with my beautiful wife, Lauren, because she is really the one that's giving me perspective on this. My dad is still alive, we still get to talk, we're very close, we have a great relationship. So my Father's Day experience has always been the same. It's that traditional, you know, Hallmark edition. But as Lauren has taught me and I've learned even more, it's not
like that for everybody. And so I wanted to bring you on to talk just about that that there are very different, wild versions of Father's Day.
Yeah, absolutely, I mean, you know, Lauren, you know, I'm sorry to hear about your father's death obviously, and you know you've had a lot of years to you know, sort of acclimate to that. But you know, absenteeism in father's and abandonment, and you know, so death is just one part of this sort of overall experience. You know, I think it's just giving people permission to experience all that it is and not sort of predefining because like you said, I think we all go in It's like
Father's Day. You know, we're going to get that barbecue set, We're going to get the car wax kit. Right, But there's people out there that are like, I have no frame of reference for what even Father's Day is, and they just treat it like every other day. And then you layer on when you've had a dad and you've experienced death. I mean, that's just so painful because each year represents just time moving on and you know that lack of that presence in life so totally.
And I was just saying you probably couldn't hear before, Chris, but yeah, there's all sorts of different types of loss or people who never even had a father. And I think think you just hit on something important, which is I find this and I'd love your opinion on like what to say to people or how to explain this
to people. But the problem is you become the bummer, right, Like if I'm not super happy on Father's Day, or if I'm like having a moment where I'm crying or missing my dad, then I'm bringing the mood down and people like not only maybe feel uncomfortable, but they don't know what to do or say, and they sort of
feel like you're killing the vibe. What's your advice to people on how they can help support I guess just first from an aspect maybe of people who have lost a father, but how they can support someone who for them, Father's Day is maybe a bit of a grief moment or maybe even more so, like it's gotten better for me over the years, but earlier on God, I would see an advert like a commercial for something for Father's Day, like home Depot doing Father's Day, and that could potentially
put me in tears.
Yeah, you know, it's so hard. I mean one, I think it's giving space for human emotion. I mean emotion. It makes people uncomfortable, right, and so I get it. You have this like joyous day for some people that are that are celebrating and excited to you know, to to bask and you know what that relationship has meant.
But I think just talking about it with people just being present in whatever they're experiencing, you know, because if if you let sort of that emotion linger, right and it just kind of sits there, I think it does become this weight because it's uncomfortable and it's like almost like, oh, you see that person over there in the corner, like their dad died, don't talk to them like just I hope they leave soon and get so uncomfortable, But it's like, why not just go up and be like, hey, it
looks like you're having a hard time, like are you doing okay? Giving space to like share what they're experiencing, even if it's just a small story about their dad. You know, it's interesting that this podcast came about because I was just talking to a couple of friends the other night. We had them over for dinner, and the wife was telling me the story about how year three was like the hardest for her. Interesting and she said, yeah. She said year one was like her dad was still
with her, like the memories were there. She still felt kind of fresh and in the relationship. Year two was kind of more of a grief year for her, of just acknowledging the loss. And then she said, the year three anniversary hit and it was like the bomb dropped. It was like time had moved on. He wasn't there. And I said, what did you really want people to do for you? Like, what were you experiencing that was
you know, that was good and bad? And that's why she said, she said, people just sort of like avoided her like a pariah. It was like they didn't want to talk about it. It was uncomfortable. Her family members were kind of like, well, you should be over this
by now. It's like three years, right, and like your family members said that, and then, you know, we had talked about what she did when that first Father's Day came up, and she said she had a little ritual about it, right, She had her own little thing where she had his ashes in a box and she kind of just sat with him and had a little moment of sort of peace and communication with him and was
able to move on. So, you know, I think it's just being with people, you know, and just kind of sitting in that emotion with him and not trying to say the right thing, not trying to fix it or make the emotion stop, but just just letting them experience what they need to experience.
What do you think they totally Yeah, I think, And you know, I also understand that a lot of people come at it from like a fear of hurting you more.
They think if they bring.
This up like then that's just gonna send you into a dark place, and they don't want to put you in a dark place. But maybe that first question is like, hey, do you want to talk about this, because if you do, I'm here for you.
Or do you want to, like, you know, go ignore it.
Do you want to go do something totally different and that community. Like I have a friend who just lost her dad suddenly and horribly, and I'm so proud of her. Like I've kind of talked to her and she's decided on Father's Day she's going to get together with a group of people who she knows all have these dad issues and they're going to go do something together and the kind of just create a whole outing together out
of it. But yeah, they're you know, I think making space for all the different complex things because now that you're in my life, Chris Harrison and Chris Taylor, I'm glad you're in our lives now too, But now that you're in my life, babe, like I want to celebrate you as a dad and we have the kids and so that's kind of a new joy that's been brought in. But I've had thoughts in my own mind of like, well, I don't want to bring you down on this day and I don't want to not make.
This day about you. Because it is.
But of course I miss my dad and I do want to talk about my dad. And I've literally said to my Chris, I want to talk about my dad and Father's Day. I've made that super clear, Like I want you to ask about him. I want to raise a glass and toast to him at night, even if it is kind of a sad moment, because I don't want to forget him.
At the same time, I don't want to be again a bummer on the day.
But like I love what you said, Chris Taylor about the space for all the different emotions.
Yeah, you know, it's interesting. So my story when I was about a year old, my dad walked out in her family and just kind of disappeared off the face of the earth. So for you know, gosh, thirty years of my life, Father's Day was a foreign concept. People would celebrate it, and all it really meant to me when I was a teenager was my friends were busy doing something and I couldn't hang out with them. It was sort of inconvenience, right. It's like a really interesting experience.
And then when I became a dad, I've got two kids, it was like this total flip where now there's like this energy coming at me for Father's Day and it's like whoa, Like what do I do with that?
Interesting?
Yeah? So's it's an interesting you know, sort of one eighty and like, you know, sort of you have this absent you know, sort of experience and then all of a sudden you're thrust into sort of the spotlight of it. So you know, obviously that's a lot different than sort of navigating you know, the grief of it.
But that dichotomy is interesting for someone who it was almost something.
Like never a thing something you lamented, yeah.
And probably was like, oh, please go buy, please go buy. And now you're you, you know, being a dad. How old are your kids?
So they're almost eleven and almost nine.
So okay, yeah, so you're in this and it's a great that's a great stage of life. And so to have that moment now where you want them to be present and maybe it just gives you better perspective on what you want from it and what.
Yeah, I think, so, you know, and it's just those mornings of fathers, say, you get love bombed, right, It's like they just jump on you and mob you and it's like cards and this and that yeah, it's like, oh my gosh, Okay, what am I supposed to do with this? And then they always ask like, what do you want to do? And I'm like, I really want to just kind of be by myself and like sit in some quiet But it's like the energy of what everybody else wants from you.
Yeah, can I say I just want to go watch the US open and disappear for six hours exactly? Okay, what I really want to do is take you guys to the park, take you to get ice cream, and then barbecue for you tonight. That's what I really wanted to do, and.
Then separate the bickering about twenty times in between all that.
You know, Father's Day is not during the school year, so you don't get the cute things that all the teachers make you, you know, put together for your moms and dad. You know, the moms kind of get like talk about love bomb moms get really love bombed. Then Father's Day is kind of like, oh yeah, it's in the middle of June. What do you want to do?
Well, it's funny he said that just as a side I was I was watching a reel or something. There was a comedian and you know, apologize for quoting him and not knowing who the comedian was. But he was talking about how Father's Day was the twentieth most celebrated holiday in the United States and mother Day is the second after Christmas, and he was like, I can't even think of nineteen other holidays, right, And You're like You're like, yeah, like what like like Canadian boxing days?
Like we behind the groundhog? We are we losing to PUCKSATONI Phil damn it.
I mean I know as a person, I'm far less interesting than a groundhog. So I'll take the l on that.
One thing that Lauren has taught me. And I think this would go to a dad who walked out on his family, abusive dat, whatever it is. It's being cognizant of that as a friend. If you know somebody, what is your advice to people to, you know, take that just reach out on Father's Day or just maybe just this whole week reach out. Just know, Hey, I'm thinking about you, and however you want to do this, I'm with you.
Yeah, I think you know, if you knew the dad, I think it's just maybe reaching out and sharing a story. Hey, I was thinking about your dad today and I remember, you know, this conversation I had with him, or this thing that he taught me, or this really cool experience we had together. And I think that just gives permission for the other person to lean in and say like,
it's okay to share back. And if you kind of lean in and share something positive, you know, you do create a little bit more of a positive energy about it, so there can be that more uplifting share rather than the you know, the sadness of the loss and just kind of sitting in the grief. You know, although I think sometimes when that when that grief gets triggered again, it is kind of sitting with people and being like, hey, it's okay, it's okay to feel that loss and sit
in the sadness for a little while. But sometimes I think asking too, like what is it that we can do together to kind of just honor your dad in this moment, or you know, is there anything that he really enjoyed that we could go out and do together to this, you know, for this day, like golfing or you know, going and catching a certain movie or listening to some live music or something.
Chris, I love what you just said about making it an uplifting share because I hate this and I don't want to put this pressure on people. But it's interesting sometimes when people text me, and again, I know their hearts in the right place.
But like.
My friends will sometimes text me on like the anniversary of my losing my dad, And what's interesting is how much that's changed for me over the years. In the first few years, I really appreciated that they did it, But now I've been able to like forget that day a little bit more, and I actually need to tell them, Hey, now when you text me on it, you just like remind me, oh, dear, like I'm glad that I forgot that day. So now it's sort of oh, now that
was just hairminder. This was a horrible day, but like making it an uplifting Okay. You know, God, I always think of your dad and I see this thing or remember when your dad did this. That's such a good way to start it from a positive note.
Yeah, because like you said, it just pushes you in the grief right then you just have to kind of sit in it. It activates all that emotion. You know, some of it's obviously going to be unresolved, and then what do you do with that, then that can corrupt sort of the rest of the day and you're just thinking, gosh, I just wanted to celebrate Chris Harrison as a dad, and now I'm just kind of sad in the corner, thinking of like great, thanks friends for being good friends,
but maybe not knowing the best way to support. And you know, I think sometimes you know, in in anticipation of those moments, right maybe a month or two before, when things are kind of calm and the emotion is low, you know, just establishing some boundaries with those friends and just reaching out and saying like, hey, you know, I know you love to text me on that day. I'm really trying to kind of like recreate an experience on that day of something that's not as sort of sad
or not as a as a constant reminder. And I love you guys for loving me in the way that you do, but I really need to be loved on that day in this way and real kind of like being able to create that roadmap form.
Well I could see it. I was, you know, when I hear your story again, I thought think, I think I thought of all these scenarios and then I, you know, hear your story and I think, wow, that really would be a lot, and I think it's maybe important to have that, you know, that talk with your spouse with the mom of like, hey, this is a bittersweet day for me, Like yeah, I'm you know, when the kids love bombing and they give me the letters and the bad tie, like that's all great, but just know there's
also a melancholy side to this to me, and like I might kind of go in and out today, so just you know, letting them be aware of like, this is also a weird day for me. But I'm also excited if that If that makes sense to you, you know, it's like, I think having that talk and giving yourself that grace to feel all those things is important.
Yeah, I agree, And you know, I've learned so much through the years of the therapist too. I mean, the influence of trauma in these relationships, right, I think you touched on it earlier. Just an abusive dad situation where the word dad can activate you know, sort of PTSD like responses and so it can actually really emotionally destabilizing for people. But you know, I also think of you know, the dads that aren't the dads that kind of became the dads, the sort of the fill ins, right, you know,
the stepdads. But you know also these people that are out there that just see the kid that's like with the single mom and they just step in and they're like, you know, I'm going to be you know, sort of this role for you and those kids don't necessarily have like a Father's Day, and I think giving permission, maybe there even just needs to be like a separate day for those like, you know, sort of caretaker men that come in and just are supportive, because I know my
wife had that experience with when she was young, her dad was kind of in and out, and she had a guy that was like, hey, hop in the car, we're going to go to the roll of a rink, We're going to listen to music. He was really close to her mom, and that really I think became, you know, what was dad for her. But she could never really reach out to him on Father's Day and say like,
hey dad, because he would be weird. But you know, and so as she's gotten older, we've had conversations about like maybe you should honor that reallyationship a little bit more in a dad kind of way. But again, another layer of like, gosh, nothing's as simple as we'd.
Like it to be, you know, not as black and white as it used to be. You know, you bring up a good point, and I do want if nothing else from Father's Day, like you said, And it's not just Dad, it's not just fathers. It's just good strong men who are good leaders, good communicators. They look out for others. They've maybe taken on a role that they weren't asked for of just helping you know, kids grow
up to be better humans. And whether that was your coach, a professor, could be you know, a priest, a rabbi. A lot of a lot of good men stand up in those roles. And I do think this is a good celebration of all of that. And because a lot of people take on those roles that you're right and they're not exactly the quote unquote dad.
Yeah, no, I love that. That's that strong male presence, you know. I mean I was listening to some of the other day talking. I've heard this through the years, but it's like, you know, like, well, I took my kids to the park, right, It's like that's not an accomplishment, that's just being a parent.
You know, the dad that's like I'm I'm babysitting the kids tonight. It's like no, no, no, they're yours.
Yeah, you're you're the responsibility you took on. Yeah, but there's those dads out there that are just those super dads that like never a complaint, will do everything and anything, and you know, set sort of that role model for
I think what we should all strive to be. And I think, you know, for those you know, and maybe this speaks a little bit more to your experience with your dad to really reach out and just you know, at whatever age you are, really love bomb them, you know, in a healthy way to just say, like, you know, as I've gotten older and reflect back on my childhood, gosh,
like you are an amazing dad. Like I look in the world now and I see, you know, the loss and the sadness and so much that isn't and I just think, Wow, how much I actually had And those are really powerful.
Moments, Chris, You've said so much that's going to stick with me.
I think the biggest thing is just like the yeah, all the different because we grow up and you see the commercials and you see the greeting cards and on the one hand, that is great, but what we're really celebrating is the goal, like the goal of like a man,
you know, being a great father to his kids. But often that is like, but what that doesn't do is acknowledge all the steps towards that goal, like the journey that everybody's on to find that person or maybe you don't have that person and maybe you'll become that person. So I love the idea, you know, I love Father's Day and that it celebrates that, but just being aware
that not everybody has that. I mean, one thing I want to ask, if I can steal a little bit of your therapy for a minute, is like I said, I'm so far out from this, but if you know somebody who like, you know, I don't maybe they just lost their dad, they're kind of fresher in the trauma, or maybe you've just learned that someone is like yourself and like, like I just learned that you you know,
grew up without a dad. What do you advise to those people who are really fresh in their trauma, or what do you advise to someone who like you've just learned that your friend's gone through something, and how you can support them.
Now, Yeah, it's it's tricky. I mean, grief is just such a powerful emotion, you know. I think the first thing is not assuming that you know what somebody else is going through or what stage they're at in grief, because they might be in that super angry stage and you're coming in with that attuning to the sadness approach, and they're just like, I don't want any part of that.
So sometimes it's just asking permission even like, hey, is it okay if I just kind of bring something up or I just wanted to mention to you that I'm here for you, and I don't really know what you need, but if you do need anything, like I'm here because you know, when we experience loss, all you hear is the sort of I'm sorry, I'm so sorry for your loss, my condolences, and I think we all know, like, yeah, that's a courtesy, but it's like, what does that even mean?
You're like, okay, you know, am I even sorry right now? I don't even know what I feel. I'm like so in the throes of this just mixing pot you know, of emotion that when I think of like a singular emotion, it just sort of doesn't compute. So I think just asking permission, leaning in sort of exploring where they are at first before making any sort of assumptions of the
type of support they might need. You know, I think when people are sort of in that, you know, early stages, it's just time spent with people that means the most. So I'm always just like, hey, I'm going to go pick up my friend. I'm going to say, hey, we're going out to grab a cup of coffee, or we're just going to go for a walk in the park. You don't even need to talk. I just want to
be around you. And it's not even about the grief, right, It's just about the human connection to be present with them, to say you're loved. I don't know what you're going through. I'm not going to attempt to understand. But then when you're in presence with somebody, I think generally people will go to a place where they'll start talking about the things that they need to talk about.
Awesome, Chris, thank you so much for your time. I think it was really important to have this show today, And you know, I want to celebrate dads, but I also want to let everybody know that we these holidays are so nuanced and these there's such a wide spectrum of how we need to approach these days. So I truly appreciate the knowledge and the expertise.
Oh absolutely, thanks for having me on. I appreciate the opportunity.
And Happy Father's Day to you as as to you and.
You know, Lauren, try not to, you know, bring it down too much. For Chris, he does buy the ice cream and take the kid. He's reached the bar.
It's always a working Father's Day for him.
I try to do something for him and I'm like, what do you want to do, and He's like, I want a girl.
Steaks and watch golf.
So I end up getting a great relaxing day on Father's Day.
Honestly, everybody wins.
Appreciate it.
Chris, thank you us, take care.
Guys my thanks to Chris, and Elsie, thank you for coming on. I really wanted to get your perspective on all this and Father's Day and this week. I think a lot about my dad. Happy Father's Day, Steve Harrison, and I think a lot about your dad, and I'm grateful for, you know, the dad he was and the kids that he left and the work he did before he left us, and so happy Father's Day to Gary Zema as well.
Our love, yes, and thank you for doing this. It meantal heft tomy that you wanted to do this episode of the podcast, and I see how much you've taken in what I've said over the years. Sending all of our love to anybody who is having that type of day where it's not necessarily the grilling and golfing and happy all day day. Whether you had a dad who disappointed you, or you never had a dad at all, or you had a dad you loved and lost, or you had a dad who you hated.
And lost, or who made you sad and lost.
There's so many different types of father experiences that we all have, and this day I hope encompasses all of them in moments of reflection, in moments of joy, in moments of welcoming all of the emotions that we all have. We're sending our love and support to you.
Love you guys, Happy Father's Day. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most dramatic pod ever and make sure to write us a review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you next time.