This is the most traumatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast. Welcome to the home office in Austin, Texas. Chris Harrison my continued conversation with Jason Tartik, who's here in Austin with me, Buddy, I really appreciate you being here. I don't know if you're still appreciative of being here.
You know what, this seat is pretty hot, but you know what, Chris, it's always good to have you across the way. Thanks for having me back.
Before we left, obviously, things had gotten a little emotional. We were talking about Caitlin, talking about the breakup and everything you guys had gone through. So you know, we're just gonna jump right back into it.
Let's do it. The breakup itself.
When I heard from you guys, it I'm trying to think it didn't. It didn't surprise me only in that I kept you know, I think a lot of us kept waiting, Okay, when are we going to hear about a wedding or wedding so whatever. And I guess personally, what I found what struck me is when I talk to you guys, I didn't hear a lot of future plans, and so I guess the The question inside all of that is when you guys broke up, was it a surprise to you? Did it catch you off guard?
Like was the rug.
Completely swept out from your feet? Or when she broke up, did you say, oh okay, Like I get it.
I saw this coming. Kailan meant so much to me and still currently does. And it's it's such a I get so worried that, like I want to preface this, like so when people are hearing this, if they think I'm like skating or surfacing, I just get so worried about the repercussions of what I say. Yeah, and I care still so much for her, and it's it's it's it's really really hard for me to have these conversations. I'll do my best. I to answer the question though I felt like it was it was on the horizon.
Mhmm yeah, mhm h ah h, what was it?
You haven't even asked a good question. It was a tough time, so to go back to it, it's tough. I'm also bad at that. I've worked on it. I've always been some and I hate showing my emotion. I hated I hate it. I hate it. I remember at the bachelor people would be like I remember someone was like, he's trying to force tears. I'm like, no, I'm trying to hide every tear and then when the camera's off, I'm gonna go nuts and cry. I'm trying to get better. I felt like that at my wedding.
I read I read my vowels fifty times thinking I won't break down, and of course I did.
I cried like a baby, But yeah, I am, I am. No. It's very sensitive these days, especially this topic.
But you loved her so much and so clearly the emotions still run deep and naturally.
Yeah.
Fuck so yeah, I saw give me a second, we need another tequila shot me, I'll.
Get it together here. I saw, I saw it. Yeah. It was the way I would say is there was a lot of deteriorating complacency. Fuck. So that's my answer. Oh yeah, yeah, so yeah I did. But no, there was definitely no sweeping. Uh, there was no shock. I you know, I think in general my stance is, uh, all right, it's I just didn't want to believe it, right, And I think that's something that I need to That's a takeaway for me is that if you if you run from problems or hide or burrier, don't address them.
You know, eventually it's gonna catch up and you can't. You got to step into hard times.
The proverbial kick the can down the road, and you either do the work now or you do twice as much work later, or I guess feel the repercussions of it.
God.
Yeah, okay, I'm good. Well, bring me back and get that out. Name it to drain. It is what I'm told. So I'm good now. It was just a hard time. So to go back to it's tough.
Oh yeah, I mean, you know, I if I go back and talk about, you know, my own divorce or own whatever, you it's like those post things are still.
Yeah, it's still at the surface. I think I've also put so much work in trying to understand emotions because for so long I've buried emotions and now they're like get it. It's like a floodgate in my life. Yeah, because for so long I just asked it. Yeah. So yeah, it's six months. I've cried my entire life. But that's with all things. Like I finally I feel good about it too, because I could finally name emotions and understand.
But I'm just I'm still so mad at showcasing. I'm like, I'm so embarrassed right now.
You know, It's funny, you know when it comes with age. Obviously you're still a young man, and I'm not elderly. I'm just older. Having my daughter did it for me. That's what changed me. When I went through my divorce or whatever, I became a hard shell and protected myself because it was so public and I was I could kind of wrap it around protecting my kids and my family, and so I just was like, I won't. I don't have time for this. I don't have time to show
the emotion. To deal with my own emotions. Not a healthy thing to do, right again, being a Texas boy, you know, what do we do with our feelings?
We swallow on their town inside.
But he was once I had my daughter, you know, and Tay was born, and like I became a it's just an emotional ball back. Yeah, if she sings or if what you know, if she's like you know, and I'm like that with my son now too. You just opened up this whole can of emotions. And it's good. It's it's it's a good thing.
It is a good thing because you gotta, I mean, to grieve it and to understand it. You got to feel it. You got to be community to be able to communicate it. And for so long, like two years ago, I couldn't even name what an emotion was. I go to therapy now every like three weeks, Thank God for my therapist. And the way you grieve is understanding it, is feeling it is demonstrating it. We've all been there. It's just I my whole life. The way I've protect and secured myself is to not show it. So it's
tough to show it. But I'm working on it and we're getting there. It's a Buffalo guy, It's a Buffalo.
Yeah. It's like just like Texas. You know, it's like we swallow it. You know. Buffalo is the same way. There's not a lot of guys in Buffalo.
Grind out, you know, just make it work. It's all good. But that's no way to live. And when you understand your emotions, I've learned it gives you the ability to grow. It's just that I probably don't step into conversations about that time often maybe it's even too soon to do it. But yeah, it was. It was just a really really tough time.
It is important that the takeaway from this too, and Laura and I have talked about this. It's you don't want to be little somebody who's lost a significant other, and you.
Don't want to compare.
But a big breakup, a divorce, it's a loss. You are mourning the loss of something, and it's it's different than losing a significant other. It's it's different than Lauren losing her dad. But at the same time, you are still losing something and you're losing someone. And what's also difficult about that is that someone still exists. They didn't go away, they did not die. You're going to see them at Chris and Lauren's wedding. You're gonna have to
see them on social media. It's like, you know, a lot of these breakups, there's not a clean breakup anymore, and that's kind of a sign of our times that we live in. But that makes it, you know, doubly difficult for you.
Yeah, and well, I think the thing is is that no in breakups, no one, especially this one, no one wins. This isn't about for me at least, there's like there's only two people lost here and lost in a hard way. Four and a half years is a long time in really important years of our lives. And so there's no no one's winning. You're both losing and growing, and so
that's that's what's tough. But it's the reality of the situation. Yeah, it's like you know, there's there's a lot of time and energy and pain for both of it, both both of us. Right, I can't say I can only speak from my experience, but what I've observed. And so it's just four and a half years of you know, it's family at that point, Yeah, their family becomes your family and vice versa. And so it's so easy from the outside to critique or pick teams or anything like that.
And I think at the end of the day, for anyone that's gone through a breakup, and I'm assuming most people listening to this have based on the severity of it, no one loses. It's just how how can you learn from it and how can you grow? And how can you do more thumb pointing as opposed to finger pointing, because it's so easy. The easiest thing you can do is start finger pointing, the easiest thing, and at the
end of the day, if you continue to fingerpoint. The only thing that's going to happen is history is going to continue to repeat itself. So through the time, I'm trying my best to just look in the mirror and see what I could have done by And I think some of the things I already alluded to with the kicking the can and yeah, maybe not addressing some things towards step. You know, the idea of like, okay, that the pain of stepping into something, it would be easier
to just assume that time will heal. And I'm talking What I'm talking about too, is immaterial things, right, I'm talking about everybody who can relate to like little bumps or discussions or disagreements. I'm not talking about anything material. But when you let when like little baby paper cuts don't go treated, they become infections. And if the infections don't get treated, you know, the end is inevitable.
I feel like so, as you said, I never really asked you the hard question, and all this has come out, So now I'm going to ask you the hard question.
Oh boy, I have a breathe in for a second. All right, fire away, buddy, Glad, my podcast is Max. I'm coming for you.
Zip aal beer. All right, do you still love Caitlin?
Mm hmmm, Chris Harrison, I have a ton of love for Kaitlin.
Yeah.
Yeah, I have a ton of love for Caitlin. When I think what's so hard is when we broke up, I was still so in love with her. Oh God, but I have an a love for her. She's such as she's very special, unique as everyone knows person, and so yeah I have I have a ton of love for Caitlin.
Yeah.
So clearly you're still dealing with a lot of emotions.
I think it's a lot of grieving, right, It's. Yeah. What I've noticed is that I bounced through. If people you know, at any capacity you grieve, I've bounced well, I've gone through the grieving thinking at times I'm like, okay, I have acceptance, can fully move on. But then you bounce back. I think that's I think that's often the case for a lot of people. I think it's hard to admit when you're bouncing back between clearing and everything,
all the different stages. So it is that ever flowing river, right, It's it ever flowing river.
Sometimes you're cruising, Sometimes it's there's the rapids, and sometimes you're falling over a waterfall and it's crazy and out of control, and then sometimes you feel great and it's just one little thing. And I've learned so much more about grieving because of Lauren and talking to her about her dad and yeah, and her dealing with that, and in her working at the experience camps with so many kids who have lost somebody.
And again it's like you.
Don't want to equate one or the other. I'm not comparing, but it is an emotional loss and you are grieving something and you're still going through it, and it doesn't mean tomorrow I won't see you and we'll have fun and play golf or whatever, but it's still gonna there's sometimes it's going to, you know, kick you in the gut totally, and that's okay.
Yeah, And I think for like for a low, like even I don't know, you're right exactly, And it's I think when you care and you love for someone and then it doesn't work out and you still have you know, you still care. So I mean that was I remembered my therapist. There was like month three or four, I was like, when the hell am I going to walk into this off and We're not going to talk about my grieving journey, Like how is this? Like are we done with this? Like can we move on to the
next topic? Like I don't know my childhood or something?
What are we going to talk about the bills never winning a Super Bowl? Like when can we talk about the important?
Shit? Gives me something? And I think she's just said such a good point. She's like, listen, it was fine. It was from twenty nine to thirty four, and this was a lifetime commitment that didn't you know, of course, obviously engagements out of marriage, but you know, you have an expectation of what your future will be and that takes a huge detour and reset and stepping into this and really understanding it and feeling the emotion of it. It's it's beautiful, and it's what's going to get you
to what you do need. It's going to get you to the partner that will make you the best version of yourself. And so well, even now, I'm just like, I feel so embarrassed that I like I felt that way of emotions. It is it's real, I feel it. But you're right, like tomorrow, like we'll go have a drink after this and we'll be good. But sometimes when I step into it, my brain just go like the photographic part goes back to some of those dark times.
And it's sad because it's the feeling like I just I get this like wave of it's I think what people are like, well, what's creating the emotion or why is he feeling that way? It's just it's a wave of just like sadness for her and me and us, Like there's a bit of loneliness. You're just like shit, and so it brings you back to that and so yeah, that's me talking through my feelings. Chris. It's a uh, I don't know what I just said.
Well, no, it's a there's there's moments of what could have been, and often, if you're being honest though, what could have been moments aren't real. Like you're you're manifesting things now of how great it was and how great it would be, and that world honestly probably never existed. You know, you start overlooking a lot of the big hurdles and a lot of the big issues and things
things start to like you remember good things. Yeah, it's what often makes us get back together with a with an X. Yeah, and you you remember the good things and you get back in You get back in bed, the proverbial bed, and you're like, oh crap, now I remember why we broke up in the first well.
For sure, which is what I personally, I think, especially like going through therapy and working through this, like the idea of jumping back into a relationship in general is I think extremely unhealthy because there's a reason as to why you broke up, right, So exploring that within yourself and growing from that takes material time for you would even wander those thoughts if you're doing it in a healthy way. Right, Yeah, that's not the band aid you want to put on the wound. No, no, no, no,
you got to fix the band name. You got to stitch that up right, everything I didn't do before. So are you are you dating? Have you gone on a date? I mean, nothing serious enough to talk about on the podcast? Yeah, you know, I know you're not seeing I know you're not seeing anyople in there.
I knew you're not seeing anybody.
I would know about that. You know, you'll get the first in trouble the next the next episode, I do.
We'll be I said, we'll do it right here, Chris, I knew you weren't seeing about significant I know you don't have a girlfriend by any means, which, by the way, good, you're not ready for that. But I just didn't know, like, have you gone on any dates and even ventured into that territory.
I'm open to I'm open to going on dates. I'm open to going on a date. I also know I have I'm like, you know, I gotta I'm just like, there's a lot going on in between the ears right now, right of course, and if I went on a date or had that conversation, I would be very open with that.
But I just, by the way, healthy and good to warn the warning back at you.
Just working through it all. So yeah, I'm open to.
Going I had those conversations when I when I when you set me up with Chris. I know, yeah, there's there's hey, there's you know, there was somehow else moms we saw, you know here in the neighborhood at lunch today. They would be more than happy to give a Tarctic a run.
Anyone you got anybody that can hand out tissues over I do think I'll say this too, Yeah, I don't. I think part of the reason I'm emotional, right now. Is also because I have a state of comfort with you, right, Like I think ninety nine percent of podcasts i'd go on, i'd have my walle up. But I do think it's again a testament to our friendship that I do feel like I'm in a space where my guard is let down to be like that. So, yeah, I gave you a warning. It's the beginning of this.
You've never sat in the chair across me before. I'm not a big fan of this, the hot seat. Who do you think invented the hot seats?
You are the hot set?
No, it was I remember vividly when I when I first got divorced, I'd been married, what seventeen years or something, eighteen years, And so yeah, you don't just come out of that two kids, divorced and all that after eighteen years and just jump back into it and be normal.
I was not hell at all. And so I would, you know, literally tell people I would go on, you know, because the weird part is, you know you're not ready to settle down, you know you're not ready to be serious with anybody, but at the same time you kind of need to start dating.
Yeah, And it's and especially for a one out of life, Like what's weird?
Is it's not fair?
You know.
It's like, hey, I'm going to go out a date with you.
I am not prepared to.
Be anything serious because I'm a mess, and it's like, so what what am I doing to this person? So I felt a little bit guilty in that I'm kind of going through the paces because I needed it. So I felt like, how do I use that guilt? I tried to be honest of like, hey, I'm a wreck right now, like my life is a tornado. I'm trying to figure out how to make sure my kids are okay and get back to school and you know all these things I said, you know, I don't have the bandwidth to do this.
Also, yeah, I get that that I think connects to a lot of my life right now. Again, going back to my therapist, she's a beauty. I'd tell her something and she said something that resonated with me and will forever resonate with me, and maybe it resonates to anybody listening to this is I find She's like, Jason, you're doing a lot of bobbing and weaving right now, Like you're a boxer. You're bobbing and weaving life and you're overthinking in this you're not in the ring anymore. Oh wow, right,
like you're you're not in the ring anymore. Yeah, you know, there was a decision made and then you had to leave the ring. And because of that, you gotta stop bobbing and weaving. You're like the spectator that's been acting like they're in there and they're not fights over man. Yeah, like wow. And the idea is like like live, like stop overthinking and walking in actually just go live, Like it's time for you to left the gloves. Put it down, like put the weight down, put it all down.
And that's phenomenal advice I had, very I love the way the analogy of that is perfect.
Exactly like an example, I'll give you a perfect example, Bobby, and even bobbing and weaving would say, know to coming to talk to you when I'm in Austin, that's bobbing and weaving. But if like for me, it's like no, I'll talk to Chris. I want to talk to Chris. Sure, I have to like follow what my gut and heart's saying.
Just do it.
Stop trying to please everybody and everything. Do what you need to do. Do your thing.
Well, you bring up a good point, and your therapist is wise. I like her, might have to have her on the show. She's a beauty, not to talk about you, but to talk about just in general. I love people like that in this world that we talk relationships with. But the added amplification of you know, Jason Smith is getting broken up with or divorce or whatever. Then there's
Jason Tartik and Caitlin Bristow from the batch. You know, it's like it's on steroids and you feel like everybody's watching, everybody's talking, and that is what also will exacerbate the bobbing and weaving, because you feel like you got to keep all the balls in the air, right. I felt this before when I was going through my divorce. I felt like I got to keep this going because everybody.
Was talking about it.
You know, the late night shows were making jokes at my expense. I understood it. It was funny, but it's stung.
You know.
It was still, like you said, another paper cut. So that is something else that will keep you. And I'm guessing it's something that even your therapist won't quite understand because she's never been in that ring that you're in. It's a big ring and it's loud and it's noisy, and there's a lot, as you said, read it in the Bachelor world, and everyone's got podcasts, everyone's talking about it, and so it feels huge.
Yeah, And I'm such a like my whole life, I've always been a path of least resistant guy. I've always been to like make people happy and check the box. And so I always get so worried that the pursuit of not self sacrificing and just doing what you need to do is going to make people unhappy or create issues or controversy or things like that, and that's just no way to live. Like you have to listen to yourself.
And that's a lot of the stuff I'm doing is like kind of like I've talked about this a little bit, but like you think about your bread and your water at dinner and your appetizer and your main plate, like just taking that main plate and like wiping it clean and like just making it me like what do I need? How do I need to pursue? What do I need to learn about myself? And so easier said than done based on personality type and stages you're at. But that's
that's kind of my journey. Right now. I see you.
Doing some also some things I did. You're keeping yourself way too busy. Yeah, that's called avoidance, called numbing.
It's called numbing. I know it.
Hey, man, I've been in you You're like, I'm busy. I've been in five cities in four days. I'm like, yeah, dude, you and be you're avoiding, you're avoiding being whole man.
But that's fine for now. It's fine, you know, but just.
When you know, you know, I think just recognizing it, right, yeah, so you know when you go home, it's still there.
Yeah, it's still self aware to say, hey, you know this right now is a form of numbing, and you're going here and saying yes to that event or going to this work trip because you're doing that, and inevitably that cures nothing. As long as I think you're self aware to step into the stuff, you gotta step into.
My advice to you, Yeah, that's my advice to everybody going through a breakup. And again, it's only because I tripped over these hurdles. I filled my time in my life with very meaningless things. I was going to parties and going to events, I was invited to someone, Yeah, we'll.
Fly you to Vegas.
We'll fly you here.
Sure, And I don't think I ever felt lonelier. Then.
I'm at these events with people I don't care about, with people I don't really know. It's not that they're bad people. I just didn't know them, And it was I had fifty superficial conversations that night.
There's no depth.
I didn't dive into anybody. I would go to bed and go. I couldn't remember one person from tonight. Yeah, and I didn't. I didn't make one connection. And so one thing I got off that marrygo round and started doing things that I really wanted to do, which going golfing with my friends. You know, buddy, you know, one of my agents called and said, Hey, we're gonna go fishing up in Oregon. Just a couple of guys, some whiskey, some cigars.
I'm like, Yeah, that's what I need.
So it's not that you can't keep yourself busy. Just be careful once you break up, how you're keeping yourself busy. Is there any nourishment for your soul?
Yeah, exactly. I think it's I think it's such a good point. I went on this journey that was like you know, July and August just like literally sit in tears. I was. I didn't drink it all, just tried to like really be there of therapy weekly at this point, feel it, feel it. And then I went to like the September October route, which was like just friends and nose really just like friends and family, friends and family,
friends and family, gonna go see it. And now I'm in this, like let's just find out, you know, let's just go here and I'll go to this, Let's go golf with Sergio and do this and all this, and now I'm going to hit the I'm like at the point, now all right, let's peel it back. Let's get back to kind of that like second stage, the friends the family saying no to some stuff because I'm thirty five and I hate to there should be no correlation to
age and what your next chapter is. But the reality is we only have so many years on this earth, and I want a family. I want to get married, I want to have kids, I want all that. And so the more you numb, the more time ticks, and the less progress you make towards like the things that truly matter in life right like the end of the day. I mean, you're the host of the Batcher and I'm sure the conversations and people you've got to meet over the last twenty years are unbelievable. What the hell does
that mean? Like in the blink of an eye, it's gone on death, right, you know what it's there? Yeah? Right, your two beautiful kids in LZ and your family, that's everything.
If you if it makes you feel any better, it should give you some inspiration about time. I found the love of my life when I was forty seven.
Fuck, it's amazing, you know.
And as you know, I got married a month ago to the love of my life, and my life couldn't be better, couldn't have more meaning, couldn't be happier, work, everything. And I went through those times of even me and I was you know, obviously had a little bit of money, a little bit of fame, and life was good, and I was dating and I had no trouble meeting people, but I wasn't meeting the one, and I thought, yeah, hey, not everybody has it all right, you know, I'm not
gonna maybe I don't get that. And but the patience of waiting for that person, and then when LZ stepped into my life, I'm like, oh crap, that's what it looks like. Yeah, and you know talk about the light bulb going off. So you're good, you got time.
Let me ask you this some point. I'm taking the host rule for one question. Yeah, what advice then, would you have for me or for anyone else that's out there that feels like they might need to rush into that because of their age? Like, how do you what do you do to avoid complacency and always pursue like the like dream relationship you imagine that you had got at forty seven.
I literally just had this conversation with a guy, yes, the other day, when he was kind of in this similar thing where it's just like frustrated, Right, you get frustrated because, like you said, you know, you were together with Caitlin for five years from thirty to thirty five.
Those are big years. No they're not. They're not. They're not big years. What's wrong with thirty five to forty? What's wrong with forty? Trust me?
Your forties is where your life starts. Yeah, that's when it really gets good. That's the best decade. You haven't even gotten there. You're still an appetizer. But and that's not to diminish or demean but it's just what I told this person and what I would tell anybody if you're thirty five, forty five, sixty five, seventy five, is
be diligent, but be patient. Yeah, don't you know. I found myself, even in this role, as well versed as I was in the world of love and dating, I kept trying to shove a square peg in a round hole of like I'm gonna make this person fit. I'm gonna make this person fit. I mean, let's be honest, and I'm intimate enough with your relationship with Caitlin. Y'all weren't perfect. You weren't right for each other. There's a
reason you broke up. It doesn't mean it doesn't hurt, doesn't mean you don't love her, and she probably still loves you to a certain degree.
But that wasn't right.
She's not the one, and the sooner you realize that, and you will, then you're gonna go back and you'll
start looking for someone who is. And when when you find that, if you're patient and it's not, I don't mean sit on your ass, don't work at it because it's almost like a job, like you need to go put yourself in situations where you're gonna meet people, whether it's apps, whether it's going to events, going to church, going to your synagogue, going to your book club, going to you know, you don't have to just go to bars.
That's not what it's about. Go to wherever where you're putting yourself in situations where you're gonna meet like minded people that you might be attracted to. And then it's having the balls to go up and say Hi, have the guts to go up and break the ice. I mean the good news with you, you're the ice breaking, right, you are immediately disarming, you have something to talk about Bachelor World.
That helps.
But for those that don't have that immediate icebreaker, be the one to go say hello, Like if you've made eye contact and she didn't throw up, or if you've made eye contact and he didn't run for the door, that's the doors open. Yeah, Like too many people go home thinking what if, Oh I should.
Have talked to that girl. Yeah, I should have got up to that guy. Do it?
Yeah, Like, break the ice, go have that conversation. What's the worst thing that's going to happen. Swallow your pride.
Yeah, good point. I think that's a really good point. And I think the one you said about like in I think in society in general, we hold these bullshit standards. I mean it's literally probably the mission of majority of what I talk about is like breaking the blueprint of the way that we're taught to think. And here I am saying such critical years, which to me it feels like, but you're right thirty to thirty five and hopefully we have, you know, fifty sixty plus. More So, who's defining what
this gap is and the importance of it? Those are made up beliefs that I've put into my head, and so I get that.
It's a you know, I always say the elevators really meet when a guy turns forty. That's when you know you're still at your healthiest physical peak. You know, you're a handsome dude. It's like, you know, at forty, guys kind of always ask themselves this. You just take stock, right, you take stock if you're like, Okay, this is my life, this is where I'm at, you know, career wise, usually by forty you kind of got it figured out. And so we we guys kind of have this come to
Jesus moment around then You're not even close. All right, there we go up boards and out, Hey, you're on the second hole and you spray to one out of bounds. You're still going to go play the next sixteen.
Right to sixteen more holes. Go, let's swing away.
You're not on the first team anymore. Yeah, but I'm off that box, but you're.
Definitely we're on the second home.
Man, I'm on the lf on the back nine.
Yeah. My thing too. I just keep telling myself, I'm a big relationship guy. I just am like g at history. I have like three people I was in very long relationships with for like four to five years each of them, And so I keep telling myself, like, I know that when I do commit, it's very likely going to be a for a significant period of time. So like put in the work for a myself, and then also put in the work to make sure whoever, like the next person is the right person.
I don't know, and I'm not saying you did this with Caitlin, but for everybody listening, don't be so because people like you and I'm kind of like this too, where you're so eager to have a relationship, and you're so you're so devout, you're so convinced that you're gonna make this work, that you're so headstrong that you're making it work for quote unquote the right reasons that it's
actually working. Right, You're not trying to make it work because you want to be in a relationship, and by g I'm going to make this relationship work because that's who I am and that's what I stand for.
But is it working? Is it right?
Make sure it's right before you're making sure it's working, if that makes sense?
And like, did you.
Want Caitlyn to work out so bad because of Caitlin because you really loved her and that love was so great? Or did you really just want that relationship to work?
Yeah, you know what I mean.
And I don't know the answer and don't need it, but I'm just it is something to Definitely, I think we all at said times we're again forcing that square peg in.
A round hole and you're like, what am I doing? Yeah? I think one of the I like, if I'm looking within Caitlin at her to me, Caitlin at her best is such a specially unique individual person that no one will replicate and and and the love I have for for that person is so significant knowing that it's irreplaceable. And then I think the reality is just because you know that's the person that you are so in love with, doesn't mean that that's the best person for you, right
and as a unit. Right. So I think that's a big one too to think through.
And people come into your life for reasons and for seasons. Yeah, And when you lose somebody, whether it's to death or to a breakup, and they go their separate ways, or your friend right moves to the other side of the world, you just don't see them again and they kind of fall out of your life. It doesn't mean that relationship wasn't meaningful and impactful to your life. You will take things from this that will take you the rest of
your days. And so, look, she came into your life for a reason and a season, and you move on, and it's not like it doesn't hurt, and it hurts your pride a little bit and it sucks, but this too shall pass. But you're still going to take things from that. You'll share a lot of lessons from that about what you're looking for in the next.
Yeah, good and bad. Right. It takes so much good and so much the life learn from. I agree with that.
Business wise, are you're good? I know you're crushing it on. You have Trading Secrets podcasts. We have the new book Talk Money to Me. Pre sales now go go on Amazon. Then the book will drop soon. You can look at my instuck aus. I'll be having it on as soon as it drops. You know, I'll be naked in the bubble bath reading his book.
But what else do you have? What else is in the hopper? Yeah? So, so we have the podcast Trading Secrets, which is every day. It's growing at a significant rate. We have the book that you talked about, and then had the first book that came out. I do some consulting for small businesses, so that's been growing at a fast rate. I also have an agency, it's called Rewired Talent Management. And so what I learned at a quick rate is I was able to monetize my social media
pretty fast late right after the show. But I learned the nuances of all the forms of marketing to it, and I would talk openly about it. And that's when I started this group called Restart Consulting and So as a result of that, a lot of people off The Bachelor and other reality shows would come to me and say, Hi, how are you doing this? And I would consult with them and how I was doing it, and then started
a talent management company. So we now have well over two hundred people in all different categories that we're doing deals with our pipeline of deals, and it's all things everything from TV appearances to social media collaborations to almost all forms of marketing in which age andcs and brands are paying talent for some type of execution. It's well over five million dollars now just in the pipeline and the business is growing at a rapid a rapid pace,
So that's a big one. And then just like random stuff there was there's I don't know, there's there's a couple like random TV media entertainment things that get talked about thrown around, or that I have filmed and might come out we don't know, and stuff like that, So I don't know. It's it's a crazy but it's all centered around all this this whole world that that we currently live in, which is kind of crazy. But the agency is the one I get the most excited about it because.
I know there's a I know a million people that you work with because you know a lot of mutual friends and stuff, and.
You guys kill it for him. Yeah, crush it. Yeah, that's been that's been a really it's been exciting. It's been great. And it's more of like the long term place. So yeah, and then you know small investments, invest into different real estate projects, CpG companies, stuff like that.
So yeah, those are the mailbox money, the mailbox money that's a try, and the passive income. I'll let you off the hot seat, the seats hot I'll let you go.
Give me a breather.
I'll give you a breather. I am going to reciprocate. I'll be on Trading Secrets, so go check out Jay's podcast Trading Secrets.
So where we're gonna.
We'll talk about a lot of stuff, more business stuff and all that, so we will get out of the relationship space and give him a break.
Oh, Chris, you are going right in the hots.
I'll see you know, I'd love to see your skills, see see what you've learned.
Over the years. Oh yeah, we'll be going. I've taken a couple of notes out of your book.
Appreciate your friendship. Yeah, you have always been a huge supporter and always been in my corner. I truly, truly am grateful for that, and I'm grateful you sat down and had this talk. It was you know you you mentioned your kind of disclaimer, and I will give you mine. I said from the beginning, Caitlin's a friend of mine, and I had trepidation about doing this too, because I don't want to be seen as taking aside, bagging on her his his you know, he said, she said. I
didn't want any of that crap. I just wanted the honesty and the emotion, which I got, which I'm appreciative of. I didn't want to get in the weeds and the dirt and all the you know the stuff. I'll leave that to Reddit.
Yeah, well, you know, I appreciate you doing. None of that crap matters anyway, None of it matters, and that's why I appreciate this conversation. I hope that's you know, that's how it the discussion. You know, obviously, when you're sitting in here, I'm sitting in a puddle over here. I'm not really sure how it all came together, but I want. It felt like nothing but love and respect. Well that's the I think the intention behind every question you asked and everything I asked was pure and to
create no disrespect for anyone. That's the goal. That's what I wanted to come on and do, and I hope we did it. We did it.
Cheers, come on, got one issues, one last sip before we go.
All right, thank you for being for having me. This really is the most dramatic podcast ever.
Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most Dramatic pod ever, and make sure to write us a review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you next time.