This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast. Chris Harrison Company from the home office in Austin, Texas, excited about the show. Today, we have a return guest because well, her life has changed so much it basically made the last interview we did completely obsolete talking about Jana Kramer, country music singer, author, podcaster, mother now about
to be another mother again. Last time Jana and I talked, you know, this is a woman who has been publicly so unlucky in love, and we've all learned so much, and she's taken us on this journey. Well, last time I talked to her, she was about to go red carpet official with her new boyfriend, Alan, And I mean that night like we were hours away from them stepping out on the red carpet and everybody was about to
find out about this relationship. Well that was only a few months ago, and in that timeframe, Jana is pregnant, her and Alan are engaged, they have finished a new house, he's moving from overseas to join her in Nashville. Her life couldn't to say it's done a one point eighty would be a gross understatement. So I felt like we needed to put a big pen in that last conversation because we have so much more to talk about with Jana Kramer. And Jana joins me. Now from are you in Nashville? You home?
I'm in Nashville.
Yeah, is this the new home?
This is the new home. This is the house that I've been buildin for the last year.
Okay, So we talked just a few months ago. Oh how life can change. You were about to go red carpet official that night with your boyfriend Alan, who knew nobody knew about. Now you are engaged, you are pregnant, you are living in a new home in Nashville. Holy crap, Jana.
You know it's about our interview. Is I found out the day before that I was pregnant?
Shut up? You were pregnant in that interview.
I was pregnant. I had just found out. We obviously we were in La. Yeah, we were in LA for that, and I just like something felt off right. And then I was like, you know, it's a woman's intuition to go and you've.
Done this before.
The body remembers the body, The body keep score. And so I was I went back to my calendar and started counting days and was like, oh hmm. I was like, I might be a day or two off here, but I'm not like alarmed yet. But something remember my last pregnancies, I had this metallic taste in my mouth and I felt that taste again. I go, hey, I think we need to go to CBS and get a pregnancy taste. And so yeah, the day before the awards, we took the test and I was just like, and you could
just you know, see the very yeah. I was like, okay, like, you know, very very faint line. But then that's when I was even like, you know, my dress got like a lot of crap or whatever. But I was like, at that point I knew I was pregnant. I'm like, I'm not going to be wearing this probably ever anything like ever in my entire life. So I'm like, I'm going to Like that was kind of my like little joke to myself for that.
What was your reaction? What was his reaction to being pregnant? Because I mean, is this something y'all had talked about already? Had you planned this at all?
So it was one of the things where when I was dating in previous relationships, I would say really truly I'm I'm done, Like, I really don't want any other kids. I have two beautiful children. I'm good. And with him, he had asked me, he said, do you want another kid? And I said, well, you know I've said no, but with you, something feels different, like I want want to say yes, but that also scares me. And you know, I'm about to be forty and how does that even look.
And I've lost so many pregnancies and I've struggled conceiving, and so I'm like, if that's something you really want, I might not be the right one for you. And this is a conversation we had, you know, early on just hit me, you know, both us saying like do you want kids? Do not? And U And then when we really started really talking about and getting more serious, I told him, all right, well maybe we should We could just try this year and let's not put any
pressure on it. And you know, once I hit forty, it'ull be like, Okay, we tried it, it didn't happen. There's no regrets or no like, man, we maybe we should have tried when we had the chance. And it was the first month trying and I'm like, and again for me, because I've had multiple miscarriages. My first instinct was, no, I'm going to lose it and I really want this like that that was the feeling, I know, and that's but when you've lost before, it's like that's Unfortunately. What
came to my mind was no, like, don't, don't. Don't give me this beautiful thing and then and then take it away. I don't want to. I don't want to feel that pain again, especially in this new beautiful situation that I'm in, and I don't want to have to go through that with him, and I want to be able to. So it was it was a very scared. But when I was like, I call him up because we were staying at his friend's house and I was like, Alan, you please come up here, and he's like, is that
a line, I'm like, I think it is so. And then a few days later we got the actual and we both got teary eyed and gave each other hugs and was like, Okay, that's that's so.
You were pregnant on that red carpet that day, that is, by the way, and he was poker face.
Thank you, I know. I was like, oh god, pers if you only knew and what I just would have just happened, because that day too, I took another test to see if it was still a darker line.
So, and you guys have gotten engaged. Yeah, have y'all talked about getting married? Do you get to try?
Well?
How far long are you?
I've got like seven weeks left?
Yeah? Well yeah, because I obviously you stood up a second ago, and obviously you were very much showing and very much pregnant.
And I've got a bump.
How are you feeling? How has this been?
Yeah, I mean it's been it's been harder. I'm not gonna lie. It's definitely more challenging pregnancy. The older you get. Things just gravity and uh things things gravity.
Gravity is undefeated, my friend.
Yeah, it just things hurt a little bit more. We've been working against a fibroid this entire pregnancy too, where the first who I had a hemorrhage in the beginning, which it was like, okay, fifty to fifty you might miscarry, and then now we got this, now the baby has to grow bigger than the fibroid. And then so it
was just we've we've been up against this. You know, a few things in this pregnanc scene, but it's he's been so amazing because what I hear from the doctor is oh, we're going to miscarry, and he's like, that's not what she said. She said you can, there's a chance, and it's a higher chance, but that you also won't you might not too. Yeah, And so he's just been very good for my freak out levels of like it's
going to go it's going to be the worst. I'm going to go to the worst, and uh, I've just never been I mean, he's he's just he's so sweet. I obviously this is the third pregnancy now, but he has been the most loving and just anything I need and like, babe, don't do this, don't care like, and I'm like, babe, I'm fine. I'm not like I can do it. I'm just pregnant. Like, but it's been it's been really sweet. Is he witness and.
Shelly moved over from Scotland?
He is, Yeah, so he was in England. He still goes back. He's got his son over there, but uh, he's still yeah, he travels back and forth, but no, he's he's living here. He got his visa and so it's and then we're talking wedding next year.
Okay, so have the baby and.
Then yeah, do it. It's not and we just want to do something super small, like it would just be like very small with the kids and close family and friends.
Just a little something. I'll walk in, I'll officiate, and we'll knock it out.
Just televised on No I'm not, I can't, I'm not, I'm not cool, like that.
Network television show. It's such a beautiful thing, and it is. I think you are speaking to a lot of people right now who have been touched by having a miscarriage before, and how much that weighs on you. The mental emotional baggage you carry trying to do it again, that's a lot. It's a lot to carry, and it's it's a conversation that'll I don't think we have.
Enough well because you can't really you're not spoke to tell people until twelve weeks, right, and so all the things that happened before that are when obviously the most miscarriages happen. And then after that you just feel kind of for me personally after the many that I had, it was, well, how can I even call myself a woman?
Like I can't even keep a baby? It just I lose it, And that is where I was like, I don't I where I was hesitant of trying again because I just didn't want to have to like go through that or feel that again. But yeah, it's I also I look at it and go when I was trying with my ex, I think there was a reason why I lost. I'm not saying the stress and everything. I'm not saying he caused my miscarriages, but I do think stress plays a huge part into loss interesting and it
can at least. And so I think when I look back the struggles that we face and having to do IVF and everything else and my body, and I think, again, I believe that, you know, there's your stress holds it and it affects everything. So for me, you know, I kind of look at my life now, I'm like, well, I'm not carrying all that toxicity and the stress of everything. So I think that's why it was a little easier this go around. I make up that at least.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. You have talked to your ex about this. What was his take on you being pregnant, you getting engaged so quickly and all of this.
You know, we were just talking about that the other day because I think he's going to come on the podcast in like a month or so and just kind of, you know, talk. And one of the funny stories that we have is he he's the one that knew that I was pregnant, Like he knew it right away. He goes,
are you pregnant? Because I did something really that I had done in years past being pregnant, and this was like early, early, early on, and I wasn't ready to just you know, because again I didn't know we were the hemorrhage at the point, and I'm like, I just I'm probably gonna lose it, and you know, that was where my mind frame was, and so yeah, but he it's it's gonna be funny to hear him tell that story back because he he definitely was the one was like,
are you pregnant? Because I think I made a sound or something that was very similar because I'm trying not to puke, right because I was very like sick with both with all my pregnancies, and he I said, I'm not going to answer the question, and he goes, I remember, he said, if it's true, I'm really happy for you,
and I just said thank you. Yeah, So he was and he's been he's been very sweet about it, and uh, you know, Alan, when he goes out of town and stuff, he's like, if you ever need anything, you know, you can always call. So oh that's right. Yeah, it's been really really really nice. Like he's not gonna the baby's not going to call him uncle Mike or anything. But you know, yeah, like, but it's it's it's a very we've evolved a lot good.
That's that's a very powerful and very healthy thing as you guys, because you're still co parenting and you will continue to co parent for many, many many more years.
Yeah, And I think that's the thing that you know, something where we've kind of come to is we've had we've done it not right or not not good. The last two years. We've had wins, we've had bad times. We've let our past triggers on both sides come into our conversations. And I think one of the things we've realized was we have a new relationship now and it
has to look different than our old relationship. So how I talked to him in years past, how he talked to me, how the triggers and everything we have to leave that behind because now we do have a new relationship and it's it is a co parenting relationship and we have to be in each other's lives for our kids, and we both want to, you know, be together at certain things and and have you know, the kids see us both happy in the same place, will more together. And like, I'm like, I just I'm at a place
where I just don't want any negative energy. I don't I even like ex'es and that you know, we're awful. I just like I don't. I hope everybody's happy, Like genuinely, I just don't want any negative.
I read something the other day, someone puts something up on Twitter x whatever the hell it is, and basically they were saying, you get to an age and it does happen around forty, I'm fifty where you want less people in your life, and those people in your life have to be value adds only positive less, stress less, drama less ever. You know, all that is so true as you get to this point in your life and you really do find yourself holding a lot less animosity
for ex's, for people that have done you wrong. It's just it's not you realize, it's just not worth the burden.
MM hmm. Yeah. And I've you know, I've said sorry to the people in my past that if I go okay, is there's someone that I need to say sorry to that I that it would bother me if I don't ever apologize to them. So there was two people that I reached out to that I was like, I'd like to sit with you and apologize, and I don't want anything back. I don't wanna I forgive you, I don't
wanna anything. And was so interesting about that was because I genuinely I'm like, I just a'm like and you don't even have to like me after you write, and I'm not trying to defend. I just want to say I'm sorry because I was a total dick when I was twenty something to you and it's always sat with me bad and again like I'm not asking to be your friend or whatever. But it was interesting when I did do that too, they were like, well, I'm sorry. I'm like, I didn't say I want to sorry, Like no,
because we all play a part in things. Yeah, that's the thing, Like there's not just like my ex isn't just a bad person, like I played my part in that too. We all play a part so, but can't we all also wish everyone happiness and good things, like I hope they even the you know, people that have hurt me the worst, like go on, and like everyone deserves to have like happiness in their life and move on and not be defined by what they did five years ago or last week or whatever. It's just like
life is too short. It is.
I can't your life is too short, and it's equally too long to be miserable to be carrying that. And people have you know a lot of people have asked me when I went through what I went through with the show and the network and all that, like are you pissed off? Are you mad? I'm not, Like, I just it's not worth my time, my energy, my effort. I have so many blessings in my life to be
grateful for. Were there some bumps and bruises along the way and some bad bounces, Yeah, but there were a lot of good ones too, and you got to take the good with the bad. And and again I wish those people, well, let's all move on. Yeah, it's not worth me losing a day of sleepover or you know that negative energy that I think it really does it manifests in so much of your life. What I find
interesting is this you redefining your relationship with Mike. That's a very powerful statement that you thought about it enough to realize if we keep going the way we're going, it's not going to be good for our kids, our families. To redefine it and let everything else go and start anew is easier said than done. That's really powerful.
Yeah, I mean, and it was hard, and it's still there's still moments. I'm not going to be like, oh we just how are like? So there's still moments where things come up. But I mean I used to when he'd caught I would just get the worst triggered feeling, and I'm like, I got to stop this from me because now he's taking joy out of the moment that I just had in my day. Like I don't want him taking that from you know, from me, And he doesn't even mean to be doing that, but that's just
like from the old triggers of everything. So I think it was just really kind of just sitting down and going, all right, I got to bury all of that, And yes, things will still come up. I still get frustrated, he still gets frustrated if he feels like I'm trying to control or whatever. But again I just I'm like, okay, I always go what's new relationship? Old relationship? So and every time I talk to him like, this is our new relationship. You got to act how you want to act in this new one.
Speaking of new relationships, you're going to get married. Lauren and I are discussing this, which is why I want your opinion. Are you going to change your name? Will you hyphenate your name or are you now of the age like Lauren is. It's like, no, no, that that's an old custom. I'm keeping my name moving on.
So I swore up and down I will never change my name again. I've changed it a few times, so I was like, I will never do again. Not only is it annoying with like the dsas and the airplane and stuff like you know, it just there's so much paperwork with changing your name. I've never wanted to be a Russell more than than anything, Like I I cannot wait. I still think it's the thing to do, And you know, I would like to be one of my children's last names too, you know, like now we'll have a son
that will be. It kills me that my kids don't have we don't share the same last name, but at least with you know, our baby, we'll have the baby's last name.
So it will be Jana Kramer Russell or so I mean, I'll.
Obviously keep Jana Kramer for like the the Wark stuff, but I will be Russell with any other thing going forward. We were just at it. We went away for like a little getaway, and I had it under Kramer, and so all weekend he's like, they're like mister Kramer, and I'm like, sorry, then yeah, it's like I promised.
That's not gonna we get that a lot. Whoever puts the card down at you know, down below that you pick up the phone, they're like, mister Zima and I'm like, oh, yeah, that's a good ring to it.
Sure, yeah, but no, I think I don't know. I just I'm kind of old school in that way. I still I still think it's and maybe who knows, maybe I can think about the hyphen a little bit. But I do like the middle name, so I would never want to drop my middle name. I don't know, what do you what do you guys leaning towards?
Well, here's the thing. And what's interesting is obviously you were sitting there with child, and I think that has such a profound effect on everybody's answer, because you want to share that name with your husband, your child, you're and so you know, for us, children will not be a part of it. We've made that decision and so the name is not that important to us.
Was that a tough decision to make? No kids? Because I know you have your older I do.
Yeah, we have two and that are in college and so twenty two. Just he just turned twenty two the other.
Day, because she's she's close to my age, right, she's a little younger.
Yeah, and uh yeah, Lauren is and so and my daughter's nineteen about to turn twenty so and yeah, Lauren's about your age. And so, you know, it's something that we definitely talked about right away. It was, you know, and I think it's a really important decision and an important conversation to have up front, especially when you're this
age and you don't want to waste somebody's time. You start dating, and you have that conversation much earlier than you probably should, because you know, if you see yourself falling for somebody the last thing I want is five years later to be like, oh, we should now talk about this after we've just wasted half a decade. So it's an important conversation. It was luckily we were both on the same page and it was a very easy conversation.
But you know, there were definitely relationships that weren't that easy.
Right, Yeah, Okay, Well that's good. I'm happy.
And it'll it'll remain Lauren's ema, okay saying yeah and uh, her exactly. And so much of it, you know, with business, as you said, I mean, you're about to publish another book. Yeah, and you know, the name on the book, the Instagram, the so much of it is already kind of spoken for now in our lives. It's tough. It's tough to unwind that.
Oh wind down though, maybe we can wind down and talk about it.
In the book you did, you talked about, uh, you know, kind of taking care of your past and dealing with it. And one of the things was your ex and how he belittled you.
Which one, which one? Which one? Which name? In the book?
I always think it's Mike, but maybe I'm not. Maybe I was wrong.
Uh yeah, that and that was uh, you know, I think we can all go back and go And I know he would say this too, and he's he fights with his words. That's something he always did and that was where he knew. We always know how to push other person's button, right, and that was his that was what always hurt the worst. And I'm like, man, I'd almost rather take something else than because the words always
stayed with me. Those are the words anytime anyone ever say anything to me, or he'd belittle me, or he would say something mean, those are the things that I actually kept on like, I carried those words with me. So when we got divorced, that was all the work I had to do. Post was taking everything he put on me and not having it be mine and not owning it.
Was that something that you had before you got married. Was that something a part of your relationship was like? Was that a red flag? Okay?
Well, but it was one of the things where and this is something where I've said, you know with my fiance is I always say that. People always say why do you love him? I go, he respects me so much? And I had this like light bulb moment and I was like, because it's for the first time, I'm demanding respect. I never asked for respect, right, So I never had respectful men in my life. They were mean, they were abusive, they were awful because I didn't think I deserve that I was told at a young age.
And establishing the terms in your relationship.
Yeah, So of course he can talk to me like that because I've allowed him to talk to me like that, and I believe that what he's saying is true. So when he says that I'm x Y and Z, I have had those messages told to me before from another prior relationship that I believed and carried. So of course I believe him and I can't leave him because who would want me?
And now that you have established better and sought out better, you have found better.
Healthy attracts healthy, right, Yeah, so that is that is the thing, you know.
I think it attracts it, But it also if you're not ever allowing that in I'm sure maybe you went on dates with other people before Alan or while y'all were dating whatever that wasn't healthy and you cut it out, oh for sure.
And that's the thing. Even in my book, Yeah, I talk about this guy named Seth, and it's like Seth is a great person for someone else, but at the time I was still so wounded in my own stuff that like and but yes, he was the same person that wasn't honest. I picked it again, a non honest person, which then ignited all my insecurities. And it's like, well, of course I'm going to act this way because this is you know, this is the same frickin' pattern all
over again. Like I've done no growth whatsoever, so of course I'm picking the same thing.
That's interesting, and it's fascinating, I know what you're saying about. Once you establish those parameters and live by it, you find you attract good people. Probably not just Alan, I bet you have if you think about it, it's manifested itself throughout your life in business, people you're dealing with now, I bet it's been not just him.
Yeah, it's you know, yeah, it's business, it's friends. And having said all of that, I still have you know, I just had therapy yesterday. I just still working on things because it was it's been thirty something years of believing all these messages to now going My work now is believing that I deserve the goodness that's here because I'm for so long I'm like, well I don't deserve that. Yeah, But now I'm like, so now I'm constantly thinking, am I about to get sick? Am I dying of cancer?
Like?
Why is this happening? Like why is this goodness happen? Like I'm like, it's hard for me to accept it, and I'm just constantly thinking the shoe's going to drop because that's what I'm used to. I'm used to not staying. It was almost like the drama in my past relationships were comfortable, and so when I met Alan, it was so respectful and loving and safe, and it was that scared the living daylights out of me.
Well, enjoy the season you're in.
I mean, that's I'm trying to. Yeah.
Look, I mean, as I said before, it's like you have to enjoy and expect the highs, but you have to appreciate that there are lows and there will be lows. Things are going to happen. Sure, it's life. Yeah, it comes at you. And you know, just when we think we get it all figured out, you know, God shows us we don't.
Yeah, yes he does.
You're about to launch this book. I think it comes out late October correct.
Actuaber twenty fourth or fifth.
Yeah, so around around Halloween look for the new book from Jana. And when you are dealing with your past and putting so much of your own person onto these pages, what is the most what did you find was the most difficult chapter of your life to deal with?
This is interesting when I and I I haven't spoken about it a lot, and every time I do are always good emotional because it's just a piece that's really hard for me to speak about, even though I've done years and years of therapy around it and I can
write it all day long. I've journaled about it for years, and I remember doing the audio recording of my book and I had the hardest time through the abuse chapter because I still like when I wrote about hiding in the bushes, I still almost judge that girl in the bush, going what the hell were you doing? Why were you hiding in a bush from a man that was trying to kill you? Like? What were you? And I still
placed judgment on her. I still am shamed, like I have shame around that being like that was me and and that's I think that's just a hard kind of that's that's just always been a really hard piece for me to talk about, which is why I don't really if I'm honest.
What do you think you have to do to forgive that girl, because you know you should. You know, that's an unfair burden to put on yourself and that girl that was in the bushes.
Yeah, I think it's And you know, I spoke about it on the book and just kind of the journey of just all the years of and not realizing that I was carrying all the shame and going Okay, Well, of course she thought she deserved abuse because she witnessed X, Y and Z. She thinks you should stay when someone hits someone. She thinks that you should, you should be allowed to be talked that way, and then it's their fault.
So it's like I have empathy for her, it's still just hard as a woman now, like if someone was to ever touch me, or if my daughter ever felt that way, and like that's where it's like when someone DMS me and they've been in abusive situations, I'm like, get out, but I know it's so hard to get out. You know, I've gone back to the same men that have hurt me countless times before. So it's like it's it's such a journey and it's it's sometimes you just
want to shake the person you know. And I would love have loved to have been the older, wiser person going, don't why, Like it's not your fault.
But I hope you will find some peace and some grace and give yourself some grace in that. Yeah, forgive that girl because look at the woman that she's turned out to be.
Yeah. Yeah, and you know, hopefully for me, I flip it with I hope telling those stories can help other people realize that it's those things are just not okay. And it's and again when I read DMS and people like is that normal? And I'm like no, but I also ask the same question, Yeah, you know, but it's so crazy. I'm like, of course it's not normal. It's not that's not okay, it's.
Not that's nothing you need from thirty thousand feet, it's so simple. Yeah, but when you're when you're there at ground level and you're in that storm, it feels so big and.
It feels really and just like when you're going through a divorce, I mean, covers up. I'm never going to be loved again, No one will ever love me. Like everyone that gets divorced, has that like or again I make up people feel that that they're never going to find love again, and it's like, that's just not the truth. Now I found it in different ways, and then I found Alan.
So you, uh, and you mentioned journaling. You you've journaled the good, the bad, the ugly.
Uh.
You keep it by your bed and you just constantly journal. Is that something you've always done or is it something you kind of learned through therapy.
No, I've just always written stuff down, even like I mean, I like to even write out my plan I have a planner, Like I like to just write things out. I like to check it off. I like to like I mean, it's just I'm just I love to write things out. I've got I've got journals for both kids that I write for them.
Okay, yeah, that's really cool. I wonder if they will pick that up and do that as well.
I hope.
So.
But you know, my daughter has, she's got her a little diary. I give her diaries sometimes. So I'm like, here are you going, honey.
And by the way, we we know we're having a boy, right is it?
It is a boy?
Okay? And so the kids excited about having a little brother.
They're so excited, and I was, honestly, I was worried about my son, just because you know, he's the baby and he's my little boy. But he's so pumped to be a big brother. It's so cute. He kind of outgrew one of his an old lovey, little stuffy. He's like, I'm gonna go give it. I'm gonna go put it in the baby's room. He can have it now. And I was like, okay, buddy, have.
You and Alan started talking names yet, Oh yeah.
We have the name. I've slipped a million times and I'm always like, cut it, cut it. It's like I share everything. I'm going to keep one thing private.
That's awesome. You should, yeah, because well here's the thing when you when you announce a name, everybody then puts their spin on it, whether it's a positive or a negative of like, oh I hated this Sally girl that I went to school with, like or you know whatever. It's like, whatever name, it's never going to be perfect for everybody. So just keep it a secret and then just announce it and we can all live with it.
We started taking suggestions because I had I narrowed it down like one was Jagger because I kind of wanted to keep the j name going. Jolie Jay's Jagger. We want a Jagger. I wanted Jackson, but his last name's Russell, to close to a dog. So and then we had a few other ones and there was just too many opinions, and so I was like, you know what, We're gonna
just name what we want to name. And it's funny because the one best friend of mine, I'm actually going to call her right now, it's Lee Bryce's wife, Sarah Bryce. She's one of my best, best best friends. She does not like the name, but yet one of her suggestions was Alfredo. So I was like, you can't have a say when you tried to name our baby Alfredo.
You named our baby after a sauce.
I was like, I don't actually care about what you think.
Yeah, exactly. Your opinion no longer matters. That's amazing. Yeah, well, it's going to be whatever it turns out to be to be beautiful, it's going to be perfect.
And thank you.
I'm so happy for you in this season of your life, with the book coming out in October, the baby coming out, and the new house, the new life, it really is crazy to think that we were sitting there talking about going you know, Instagram and Red Carpet Official too. You're sitting here now rubbing your belly in your new house. Life can change. And maybe that's the takeaway from all this.
No matter how low or how defeated you feel, the season can change so quickly in an instant, and if you believe in that and you can hold on, things will get better. This too, show pass and that's a great lesson to learn. If Janet can do it, you can do it too.
Just keep believing in love. You know. I'm like I'm the guinea pig. You just got to keep going until you find it.
Well. I'm very happy for you, my friend.
Thank you, viv. I appreciate it. I'm happy for you too, bid up with the wedding and everything, and I'm excited for you guys.
And I will talk to you soon.
Okay, perfect, Bye, guys, Thanks for listening.
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