Jackie Goldschneider and Jennifer Fessler

This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast. Chris Harrison coming to you from the home office in Austin, Texas, and we have a great show today. I'm really excited that Jackie Goldschneider and Jen Fessler from the Housewives of New Jersey are going to join me. They also just kicked off a new podcast, Two Jersey Jays. Get It Jen, Jackie, Two Jersey Jays. The podcast has been a smashing success.

You're having so much fun with it.

I mean, we could have gone the blonde, the brunette, we could have gone a lot of directions, but two Jersey Jays is pretty solid.

Yeah. No, we're loving it. I actually the brunette we still change, Yeah, you still change it.

What have you both enjoyed about this podcast? Because by the way. It has blown up. It's on the top ten list everywhere, so it's really been a huge success. What are you guys enjoying about it?

Go ahead, Jed, Okay. I mean, well, first of all, I just can't believe it myself. I cannot believe that we even have a podcast because I've so enjoyed doing podcasts in the power being a guest on podcasts. So I guess what's really enjoyed about it is that it's just shooting this with Can I say that my lifehouse absolutely with Oh good, Okay? That I like that about it, and I love shooting this with Jackie and it's fun and it's you know, the response has been so nice.

We we always banter, so why not turn it into a podcast, right, But I love being creative. I have so much to say about so many things, and anytime I listen to a podcast, I was always like, I can do that. We have some dream guests, We do have great Yes, well, Jen's got like a massive crush.

No, it's not. I don't have crushes anymore. I' way too old for crushes. I just have a massive respect and love for Michael Rappaport.

Oh yeah, okay.

I think he's just so funny and so interesting and so passionate, and he's taken up the cause. Yes of y allan. I just respect him tremendously. I'd love to have him on.

He would be a great interview. And I know Michael a little bit, and first of all, he's unbelievably funny, good actor. But you know, it is has been interesting to see him really shut down everything else he was doing and take up this cause. Good for him for standing by his convictions and deciding this is what I want to do. I think you have to respect. Whether you agree with him or not on everything, that's that's up to you, and you can debate that all you want.

I feel the exact same way when he used to talk. I told him I had the pleasure of meeting him and his beautiful wife, and I said, during COVID, you know, he's very anti Trump, but with that the politics of that factor out for a moment. He was so passionate, but he would start screaming and the veins in.

His neck about I feel that it's on the daily with him.

Anyway, I can't and I would laugh my glass off just watching him.

He would become so overwhelmed and scream and.

I just like I would just die.

He does cameos. He did one for a friend of ours who lost a bet, and he just would go, you know, he's very blue. He doesn't mind just cussing and going at people in his cam. It's really funny stuff. But anyway, I agree, And that's one of the great things about these podcasts. Very cathartic, but also the amazing things that I've learned. Lauren and I just had an amazing conversation with the concierge doctor of Beverly Hills, doctor Ali, and we went deep on something that you guys have

Sure. Thanks. I don't know that I'm a proponent of it. I'm a proponent of it for myself. Yeah, And you know, today on Good Morning America, there was a doctor on and I don't remember his name, talking about the other positive aspects of these drugs, and they're called what are the letters, Yeah, but no, but they're called to me anyway, not just for weight loss, for heart disease, stroke, holycystic

Has it diminished that at all for you?

It's a great question, because there are there have been times, not recently because I've lowered my dose, but where I really couldn't enjoy eating and I I that was never my goal. So I when I lowered the dosage that came back, the joy of eating came back, and it doesn't without plaguing me, but still have an appetite. I was just away in Mexico and we ate our way, you know, through this vacation and loved every minute of it. The sort of torture that comes with that has dissipated for me.

Yeah, and Jackie, where do you stand on all this?

I dislike the drugs for you know, losing the last few pounds or getting skinny for a number of reasons, and I have no issue with any particular person using it. I don't think it's the easy way out necessarily, because I think there's a lot of side effects that people have to deal with. My fear is number one, given my history with anorexia, which I battled for twenty years and it nearly killed me, and I've been in recovery

Well, that's on me, right, I mean, that's that's on me, right.

So, but that's a lot of people like you lose a lot of muscle masks, which is not good for an aging woman.

Very true, absolutely true. But I will say that you don't have to I mean, you have to lift weights and you have to choose vegetable And I had an incident. We spoke about this as well on our first podcast, where I had an impacted bowel and I was not drinking any and it was my doctor was very clear, you had got to drink water, you got to take fiber, you got to eat your fruits and vegetables, and I was ignoring all of that advice.

I'm curious, Jen, And this is an awkward question because I've never seen you, ny are no awkward, Yeah, but so I'm just curious as you look at your own body, so you get out of the shower, what are you seeing now that you didn't see them?

So I see a lot of hanging skin, and that's just the truth of it. I see a woman who's the bottom half of her body looks like she's ninety years old? But why do you want it? Because it doesn't I'm not trying to be Keeni ready, I'm not you know, I'm not walking a catwalk. And I never loved the lower half of my body anyway. But I've definitely lost muscle again. I'm not doing squats every day right like I like I should be. Well.

Doctor Ali actually brought up something very interesting. You know, you can really kind of maintain but you're not going to gain muscle mass. Let's say a guy like say I wanted to be ripped. Getting on these drugs will not do that. You're not going to slim down and be all fired up, because he's like, you're going to lose muscle mass. You know, you can stay on the protein diet, you can do all these things, but you're not going to get ripped. You're not going to get bigger.

So I've lowered my dosage. Yeah quite a bit, and I actually put on maybe five pounds, which I wanted to. I was actually feeling like I was looking just prel But if I'm being honest, I maybe maybe I'll stay on it indefinitely I don't have a plan to go completely off of it.

Yeah, Jackie, it's you know, your story really struck a chord with me. Someone very very close to me almost died in college with eating disorder in arexia and bolimia, both of them, and I thought the same thing when I heard this. I'm like, man, this has got to be at the very least triggering for someone who has dealt with this, who battled so hard. And by the way, it's kind of like addiction. You never stop that fight.

Yeah, it made my recovery a lot harder.

Yeah, it doesn't trigger me.

I know that I could go on it if I really wanted to, so it's not like I never would. But it's not triggering in that sense of like, oh my god, all these people are getting skinny. I don't envy that I had it for a long time and I chose to change my life. What I selfishly don't like about it is that I had a lot of people that I looked at during the course of my sickness where I would watch them eat and say to myself, how do you do that?

How do you just eat.

Something and not freak out about it and not worry about what's in it and just enjoy it and then move on with your day. Because I was never able to do that, And when I recovered, I looked forward to being a part of that world. And then many, many of the people in that world who I admired started using these drugs. So now I am the person who has the healthy relationship with food, and they are the people who are on these drugs and are have

So I just want to jump in for one second. So of Chirs, you wouldn't know this, but I actually was believe it for most of my twenties. And I will tell you that I totally get what Jackie is saying.

Yeah, I think maybe you are the one of the exceptions.

You know.

Also, Chris, people don't realize that a lot of these studies that tout how wonderful these drugs are are funded by the drug companies who.

Create the strug.

Well, doctor Alie and I were very frank about that there are.

Side effects that people are not like reading about in the paper every day because they're not you know, there's there's a lot of things behind the scenes. I mean, go watch Dope sic, you know, like you'll see what these pharma companies do, and it's just scary, Like I would never be able to be on a drug like this knowing that everything could unravel if by some chance it had to be taken off the market. Yeah, you know, like that would drive me crazy and I would never be able to relax.

And you know, Laura and I after talking to doctor Ali, and we've been talking a lot about this because Oprah was, you know, very open about it, and you guys in your your Housewives world, we'll talk about that more because you know, I don't know how what's the percentage of housewives do you think are on one of these drugs?

I don't know, but I will say at Bravocon this year, every like there was no one overweight.

No one was overweight. Have there ever been a house Has there ever been a housewife that was over Yeah, everyone was thin. I would say, God, I don't know a third of them maybe that were heavy. No, No, that are on on I don't know. I mean, I your guess is as good as mine. I don't know.

I mean on our cast, like at least half the cast, right, I.

Mean talked about it. Yeah, that are honest. Yeah, that admit to being on it. So we're not like outing anybody.

And Jackie, that's a very interesting point too. Those that admit it and then those that don't. You know, obviously there are those that are either denying, lying, or just ignoring but they're on it. What do you think that percentage.

Is in the house eize world? Are just in general, in the housewives world a few on each cast? I well, you know, in the real world, like I have so many friends that are on it, and they don't share that information with anyone but me because they know that I'm on it, because I'm so open about it, right, and then I'm sworn to secrecy. So I think that there are so many women and men who are ashamed to be on it, and you shouldn't. There shouldn't be shame around it.

Well, that's something interesting. We talked so doctor Ali, who's again he's the doctor to the Stars. He has a lot of celebrities, and he said, look, three quarters, he's like, probably seventy percent are walking around on one of these weight loss drugs. And there is this you know, there are those like you that are very open about it and very honest. I think it's very healthy. I'm glad Oprah is talking about it because if nothing else, it

Go ahead?

Well, I think there's a narrative in our and we were going to talk about this today on our But there's this narrative that, like you that these drugs are the easy way out, and there's shame. There's like you should be a shame to yourself if you haven't tried everything else.

First, Yeah, we ha'ds Sonny because we are going to talk about this today in terms of plastic surgery and why there's so much sort of shame around it. But I I think that they're okay. So this is just what I know. I don't want to get anybody riled up, but there's there was talk about the fact that there was a shortage and that people who needed it couldn't

Yeah, well, you're definitely not now. I mean, there's plenty of it. I also wonder, because look, I'm a big skeptic, especially when it comes to pharmaceuticals. Was it a I call it the pink's hot dog theory? Was there really a shortage or do they just want to create a line so it looks like it's busy, you know they did they announce the Oh my gosh, it's crazy. You can't get your hands on it, so you would rush to a doctor and try and get it. That's just the skeptic in making interesting.

Yeah.

Possibly, I think that people label, you know, ozembic users as lazy. There's also some kind of like resentment. I think that some of the people who are calling other people lazy really want to go on it themselves, and maybe they can't, you know, find one thousand dollars a month, which many many people can't, and that's you know, it seems like it's a drug for rich people to get thin, you know, and that goes along with that understandably.

Jenny, have you talked about which one you're on, because there's several now semi.

Glue Tide, which is like the generic I guess, okay, right of ozempic. I believe by ozempic. Right, So it's made in a compound pharmacy because.

There's ozempic and Wagovia. But then now.

Menjar, there's a lot more now, Yeah, And you know what scares me, Chris, is that now I believe the FDAs is working on approving it for kids, and that is horrifying.

Yeah, and I understand it all, Yeah.

An adult making that decision for themselves. But you take a child who doesn't like their body and you tell them that instead of trying to like help them understand how to eat in a way that's better for them or like more physical exercise, you put them on a drug instead.

For me, that is horrifying.

Yeah, I know it is. It's scary. And you know, I have two kids, you know, luckily they are grown and have kind of navigated this mine field of whether it's social media now, weight loss drugs and all that. I have a nineteen year well she just turned twenty the other day, twenty year old daughter, and you know, a twenty one year old son. And the reason I love talking to women about this is because and Lauren

I have a twenty one year old daughter and a twenty three year old son, same thing. So I concur Yeah, it's so different, am I daughter is has type one diabetes, not to be confused with type two diabetes, which is what these drugs are prescribed for. But I can tell you that my daughter is eats in such a healthy way in part because of the fact that she has type one diabetes, but also because of the weight issue, right, and the pressure that she felt, especially in middle school

Well, you know, there was this kind of shift from the perfect body. Are we really getting away from that or really is it just we're back to.

Where we were, So we're really getting away from that we're really getting away from that, and every day there's more drugs, and I think the whole thing was maybe a farce. And I am so grateful that this whole ozembic craze started after I chose to recover, because if it had started before, I'm not sure that I would have found the strength to say, let me gain weight while the whole world is losing weight.

Is there any positive that you see, say, say, someone is beliemic or inorexic, is that and there? Yeah, and you know what doctor could say, look, let's get you on this. And you know, I don't know. I don't know if that if that mindset would have worked on the person that was so close to me, or if it would have worked with you, like would you have started eating or No.

Not for somebody struggling with an eating disorder, unless it's binge eating disorder. Each case, I do think these drugs can definitely help, But if you're struggling with anorexia, no, these drugs are just replacing one form with another.

What about addiction? What about drinking?

Yeah, I'll be interested to see. I mean, obviously the studies aren't in on this, but people are talking about it, and you said the person on the morning show was referring to it, and Lauren and I have read studies about the possibility that you know, it could help addiction. I makes sense. It's a blocker.

Yeah, I think it's a side effect.

Yeah it could.

I mean, I think from what I remember, and I remember I'm fifty five years old and it was only hours ago. But from what I remember, it has been shown too really help with addiction. And as I was saying, I am a heavy drinker, I was. I said in our last podcast years ago, I was really concerned about my relationship with alcohol, and I checked myself into an

Look, at the end of the day, it is a fascinating topic. I think I'm glad that you two ladies are talking about it in such an open, honest way. I think the Oprah talking about it, I think other people kind of coming to the forefront. Lauren felt it you know, we were heading up to our wedding a few months ago go and she was asked by some of the ladies in the neighborhood, hey, do you know, do you want to get on this before your wedding to kind of sharpen up or lose ten pounds or

Yeah.

I mean, luckily, I don't feel there's not a single part of me that wants to be on these drugs.

Nothing. No, And I.

Hope for all the people who share my mindset that I can be a voice for that, because I am there's no part of me that envy's anybody who's on any of these drugs. And I'm so glad that it works well for you and that it's complemented your life. But there's I have there's no part of me that season upside.

In the long run, I love that y'all can love each other and have this this huge different opinion.

I mean, by the way, very anti housewives.

But it's by the way, it's okay that we disagree on a topic in this world. It's okay. You know, we don't need to cancel jin We don't need to cancel Jackie. You know we do it. It's okay you can actually disagree with someone.

Degree and knock it canceled.

Amen, What a weird concept. Speaking of housewives? A have has it changed you?

You know?

Was honestly Jenna's And I know, I don't mean to get back on the weight loss thing, like has it changed you? And that is that one of the reasons you got on it? How else? Has it changed your life and your world?

You know? It's interesting again. Our next podcast is about plastic surgery. And I got on Housewives and as soon as season one wrapped, I got a facelift and a nose job and started semi glue Tide. So I barely recognize myself in the mirror. But that wasn't all about it. This is my honest to god truth. That wasn't just

Jackie, do you feel the same, Yes, I mean no.

For me. Well, so, I've been on it for six years, and I think what was hard on me. I didn't really do anything to me. I haven't done anything to my face except like fillers and botox. But I think what was harder on me than watching it back was hearing what people said about me on social media. So I could watch back the early seasons and I'm like, oh god, you just you know, you look simpler, you

Like you went way overboard?

And I'll give you one example. I don't care if I get called out for it, but like she's a beauty a woman. Take Larsa Pippen, right, you look at a picture of Larsa Pippin from when she was married to Scottie. She is so beautiful and natural looking and just like gorgeous, and now she's still gorgeous. She's a bombshell, but like she looks like a completely different person and like she didn't need to do any of.

That, And so what is that? Because I mean, my Laura and I are talking about girls in college now, are you know, And they're at their most beautiful and voluptuous, and their skin is the tightest and most elastic it'll ever be. And they're already getting fillers in botox and this and that, you name it.

You want to know what I think it is?

Honestly, I think it's all these Instagram filters. Yeah, they make you think that people look a certain and we're going to talk about this on ours also, but like everybody's changing their pictures now.

I mean, the social media is the devil. We know this really, right, I Mean there's everything changed with the advent of social media, for sure, and I think that just all roads lead back to that, right. Is that comparison that is so difficult? I think especially for young girls. I know it really was for my daughter. It is for my daughter, and she's thirteen.

Speaking of housewives, how has that impacted your kids? You're both moms. You know, they see obviously a side of you at home, your mom or whatever. Then they see a site of you on housewives.

Yeah. So again, my kids were older. I just now they're twenty one and twenty three, so whatever. They were twenty and twenty two, and we had more than one family meeting talking about what this was going to be. Like, you know, they're adults and they have no interest in being part of the show so way easier. And I don't know for them, I think they were both they were both nervous about it at the beginning, right, you

Right, right, it's the point of the show.

Right, So I think they were nervous about it. But now I think that they're more proud of it than they expected to be. And I don't want them to be part of the show, right, and they don't really want to. So it's been way easier, I think, than it has for people with younger kids. Yeah.

Well, I mean, but my journey on the show has been entirely different. So, like the first two years, my kids really they were young. My older ones turned ten on the now turning sixteen. My younger ones were seven, so they just basically did what I said.

They thought it was.

Kind of cool to see themselves on TV. And then my third year, my marriage nearly fell apart because of the show, and so the show was, you know, not a very happy topic in my home, and there was a lot of like crying. And then the fourth year the show saved my life. So it's been like I, I mean, it really did save my life. I don't think I would have been able to recover unless I

So when you say it saved your life, literally, yes, meaning literally it helps you with your eating disorder.

And well, I would wake up, over the course of twenty years, every week and say today I'm going to do something about this, like this week i'll eat more, or this week I'll find someone to help me. And I never ever ever followed through. And when I realized that I needed to stop or else I was going

Because I was going to ask, you know, because you see a lot of divorces, and I've talked to other housewives, you know, it never seems to help a relationship. And you know, my thought is, what is the poll to go back sometimes? You know, what is that draw to remain a housewife for so many years?

That's so loaded because you go from I went from a mom who would just go to like the grocery store and school pickups. I was driving a mini van at the time, to an overnight celebrity. And it's very, very hard to go.

Back because it's intoxicating, or because it it's.

Just it's intoxicating.

I mean I also had a lot of mental issues that went into it too, like the validation and finally being seen and finally being you know, I always used to say, like I used to go into a restaurant and the back room like who is famous? Like I would try to like creak my head and see who was back there, And I would ask who was back there?

And now I'm the person back there? How am I going to? How am I going to go backwards? You know what I see with so many housewives, not just on our casts, but across the board, this desperation to stay on the show, and which is wild because you see what goes on and how hard it is and how it can affect people's lives positively and also so negatively. But it's sort of housewives at all costs, and it

Yeah, I was there a yah, and now I'm.

Not, obviously jend these series were going on before you, So was that the allure? Did you see that and think that that status? I want to be seen as one of these ladies. I want to kind of have that power.

Yeah. Growing up, I wanted to be an actress. And I graduated from college and I went to moved immediately to New York to go to the American Academy of dramatic arts. I was a horrible actress.

Well, that's definitely a great path to become a housewife.

Okay, so I always wanted to be on stage. Yeah, in some way, in some form. It's a different thing to sign up for the Housewives because you are opening up your life to so much scrutiny, I guess. And what are you trading it for? I guess fame and fortune. I don't know. But it's been a different experience than I predicted. It can be really really fun and thrilling and an adventure and also really hard and not just on not just during the filming of the show, but

It's not as taxing on your family, it's not as not evasive invasive on your life.

Big I mean that poll. I mean, I know even you know, working on the Bacher Bacherette that allows producers to have a lot of power. It's like, look, Jen, Jackie, look, if you want to you really want to be prominent in this episode. You really want to be a housewife, you want to come back next season, you want to have your own story line. You know that there's all these little things, these these carrots they can dangle in front of you.

Mm hmm, yep. I really hope that if or what listen, Housewives doesn't go on forever. You know, we're not actors where this is a lifetime profession. I don't think. I mean, maybe for some women it will no for them.

For me, you know, it's not going to go on forever anybody.

So I feel like, you know, being that entangled in what all of this means and who you you have to be very very grounded. I I'm really working on that myself. I don't ever want to feel like I'm so desperate to stay on the show. It's really fun and exciting, but it's not everything.

Well, I always said there was comfort in the fact that you know, you know, in this business, you're essentially going to be fired because every show wins. I don't care. You know, the Bats are ended up going for twenty years, which I didn't expect it to go. No one could ever or predict that. But you know at some point that ride's going to be over and so living that way is actually really good. You end up living usually below your means if you're smart, because you know, it's

You go first, Oh god, you take that one the bathroom six times a day.

Explain that to me. I mean, you with your impacted by like, I don't get it. What's the biggest ick. I mean, I don't. My husband's a nail bitter, and I don't know if it cks me out as much as it pisses me off. And I don't know why. When I see him biting his does something to me where I just want blood.

So and and by the way, so unhealthy that the amount of germs onto your nails, that's that's horrifying.

Listen. He would tell you that what x him out is the way that I have eggs on my feet. And I won't get into the details of that, but I'm way more icky than he is. Y. I eat chips in beds?

Yeah, Oh no, Laura and I have had some fights about that. No crumbs in bed So out of the ick, let's go to sex life. How do you keep it alive?

Such a funny question, and we're laughing because our last episode is about was it about, yes, whether or not our sex lives are in fact alive?

Are they alive? Okay, well that's a better question.

Are your sexual I make sure you know what. We make it a point.

I make it a point to make sure that at least once a week.

Yeah. But when you us back again, Chris, we will talk about how our sex lives are not you know, the way that it's portrayed sex on these shows. That's not what we necessarily relate to, right especially I mean, I'm fifty five and my husband's turning sixty one, so it's not the the priority.

So that brings up an interesting debate Laura and I are having. So Jackie just said, I want to prioritize at least once a week. Jen, what is healthy once a week, twice a week, five times a.

Week for us? I mean it's not it's what is healthy we have at the base of our relationship is this friendship, love, deep love and respect. So that is part of our sex is part of our relationship, but it's not the biggest part. So it depends. It depends on the month, it depends on the year, It depends on the holiday, depends on the holiday. Is it his birthday or not? At least a vander Pump used to say that.

Right, But I don't birthdays. So it's at least twice a year.

Yes, yes, but I don't know what's healthy physically. But for us, whatever it is, and it's not we're not hanging from the chandeliers. But it feels healthy emotionally, the little lot whatever that we I don't know, so I don't really know the answer if I feel content.

Would you ever be open to a threesome with your husband?

No, no, I agree, not because it's judgmental. No, I mean for me, it's not that.

I just I would worry about the impact afterwards, Like I wouldn't want another woman there because I'd worry about someone else. I don't want to see someone else touching my hand. I don't think you would ever allow another man.

Oh. No, last question, some housewives do not have a monogamous relationship with their partner. Could you ever do that?

I don't think so, same reasons.

I think that it would just introduce a lot of problems into our relationship.

I've spoken about on the show and also in our podcast. But my husband and I were separated for over a year, and so there were there was infidelity, and so we've been down that road. I'd prefer not to go down that road again. I wouldn't recommend it. Having said that, I wouldn't necessarily take it back either. So I think that there is a path back. I'm infidelity, do I And I think that listen, whatever works like if you're remember the word polyamorous. That's the word, right, and you're

Whatever floats your boat, Well, y'all floated my boat today. Jen Jackie is first of all, it's just so good to talk to you, to meet you. Congratulations. If you have not listened to their podcast, Two Jersey Jays, which is on the iHeart podcast network, you can find it wherever you find podcasts. It has been a huge success. And now I see why because y'all are so open, so honest, and you don't agree, which is wonderful. So I bet sometimes you do, but a lot of times

Amen.

She doesn't need bread anymore, but we'll break you bway.

Yes I do. I finally do bread.

Okay, we can't go back down that road.

Podcast. Thank you so much for having us.

You're the best, Jen Jackie, thank you so much.

I'll take care you, bye bye bye.

My thanks to Jackie and Jin for being a part of it, and congratulations on their podcast. They're doing good. I'm excited that the most dramatic podcast is a part of that as well and promoting the Two Jersey Jays, And I like continuing this conversation about the weight loss drugs. I find it fascinating and I think the more we dig into this, it's like scratching an edge. It just it goes deeper and deeper. It makes it worse and worse.