This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.
Welcome everybody to the most dramatic podcast ever. You have me, Lauren Zima and Chris Harrison coming to you today with a little playbook on.
How to know who your real friends are.
This topic was spurred for us by Amy Robock and TJ.
Holmes talking about something that we definitely can relate to.
They went on their podcast and talked about their quote, fake former colleagues from ABC who they say ghosted them after their scandal. They were talking on their podcast, which is also here on iHeartRadio, and Roeboch said, quote Amy said, we went back to work for two days after that tabloid that shall not be named released those photos of their private relationship. And she said there wasn't anyone catching
us cheating. That's not what happened. But we came back for those two days were arounded by support, she said. But then Holmes interjected to say that their former colleagues were being fake. Some of it was BS, he said, and Robox said, yeah, once it was clear that we weren't coming back, I never heard from most people again.
The gravy train stopped. People quit coming to the table, Babe.
I want to go to you first because I think obviously with what we went through, we saw a lot of this just years ago ahead of Amy and TJ, so we can definitely relate, and you know, we really need to like just speak to them at some point and kind of you.
Yeah, just give them a little Let's have a mutual pod where we all just talk it.
What are your thoughts?
Well, I think when you go through any extraordinary event, it puts pressure on those relationships and you find out who your real friends are on a much deeper serious level. You know, we talked about this when your dad died. You find out who really is there, who's really vested in you, who really cares about you. And it's not
the people that'll bring the cast role on Tuesday. It's who's going to show up on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday of the following week and the years that follow and when we went through what we went through the same thing. It's a reckoning, right, It's a garage sale in your
personal life. You go through this, by the way, when you go through a divorce, when you have kids and you're going through divorce and you've made so many friends because of your kids and sports and you know, neighborhood friends, and then you realize, well, they weren't really with you because you they were with you for your wife or the kids or whatever it was.
And so or if they're the type of friend who like chooses the other person, you know, well they weren't really your friends. Yeah, and so sometimes people make people choose.
There are many stages in life, and so I'm glad Amy and TJ spoke about this because it's something that should be relatable to all of us, because we will all go through this at some point in our lives, when you transition out of one thing into another in life, especially when it is on a massive scale. And yeah, when Lauren and I went through what we went through, same thing where there was a reckoning of there were
those that stood beside us. There were those that called us immediately and spoke publicly or even privately, and they've never left our side and to this day they're right by our side. They're in that fox hole with you. But when the bullets start flying, as I like to say, you find out who will stay in that fox hole
and who will really take the bullets for you. And a lot of people won't And let me just say in their defense, because yeah, some of them are just bottom feeders and they're just trying to attach to a good thing when things are going good. But you can't always in their defense, You can't always expect people to go through everything with you. That's kind of a selfish,
narcissistic trait of like, this is big for me. I'm going through something traumatic, Therefore you should care and go through it with me.
Now, the people that people got their own stuff going on here. Yeah, people have.
Their own shit and they have their own stuff to do with, and you can expect them to understand the depths of what you're feeling. No one could ever understand what we were going through and what we were feeling in those moments. The people that loved us most dove in to try to figure that out. No one could really know what you were going through when your dad died. The people that loved you most figured it out and they stayed with you to learn that. But you can't
expect everybody. And when you're on set for Amy and TJ, they're at GMA, there's people in the green room, they come into your dressing room because you're surviving every day. There's people I traveled with, I took care of their kids, I helped them on day to day life.
You know, I would get a.
Bar set up in paradise or at a bar set up when we're quarantined when we were shooting Clayer season because we're stuck, and so I had a burger and a bar come in. And everyone loves you in.
Those moments you're trying to keep treat the crew.
You're trying to treat the crew, You're trying to take care of everybody, and everyone's like, oh, we love you, bro, we love you bro. And you think in those moments they would never leave you, Well they will.
I think.
You know, you've made such a good point in the word reckoning or the phrase garage sale, Yeah, are really applicable. There's friends in your life that are friends for a reason and friends for a season, right, Like some of what you're talking about is just the natural flow, and I think that's something we can't get upset about. Like if you move, you're going to hold onto some friends
long distance and some you won't. And it's not that anything bad happened or that there's any anger or malice there It's just you have to have a certain level of depth of friendship to overcome when when things get harder, when it's not convenient or easy friendship. But then there's like a tragic case or where something horrible happens, and that's a different story, and that's kind of what you're talking about with us or with my dad and that
kind of thing. And what I'm looking for in those moments is I don't necessarily need people to, like publicly as you're saying, go through it with you or stand beside you, like I mean, I know that, you know, we didn't. Really The problem with what happened was that at that time, anybody who said anything in your defense was going to get railed. The same was going to significantly suffer, And we didn't want anyone to.
Lose jobs or get in trouble for standing up and defending.
So I didn't expect that from people. I appreciate it, and I knew who our real friends were, the people who were like reaching out just to us directly, the people who stuck out to me, or the people who didn't reach out behind the scenes at all, like who you know, it's really telling if someone only reaches out and supports you.
Publicly but not privately, right, yes.
And then a whole other level is the people who took advantage of the moment and who maybe you thought were your friend and who like slammed you and took advantage of getting their name in the headlines and made the moment about them.
That's really the worst kind of person, And that's someone.
I was thinking that too. It's the people that were jealous, the people that tug on your cape and take try and take advantage of a moment that that happened.
But I think some of what Amy and TJ are talking about here isn't like specific to our business. It's sometimes your work friends are not your life friends. And I think we have a lot of mentality, Like business culture is like your work family, and maybe.
It used to be a little different years ago.
I've talked to my mom about this, because we're two different generations obviously, Like our businesses used to be, like maybe you worked for your neighborhood furniture store and you might work somewhere for decades and those people really were
kind of your family. I think now a lot of people work for really big corporations, and you hear this oh, our work family thing, but it's like the reality is that company would fire you if they needed to, and there's not as much loyalty, and the camaraderie is more like for image purposes than it is real. And that's not to say you won't find work friends, but I think when you leave a job, if you walk away with like one or two really good friends from that, that's great.
Not everybody who is your work friend is going to stay your real friend.
I think it's important that and this is a good exercise in life to take stock in life of who you are pouring your life and love and emotion into. Are they really there for you? Are they really that into you? No? But are they really that good of friends? And I think it's important that you don't exaggerate in your own mind and your own heart of what these people really do mean to you, because, like you said, especially what you know you find out in these businesses
is that sure everybody's friendly. And the executives that we were, look, I was with people that would tell me they love me every day at the network, at the studio, So bro, we love you. We'll always take care of you. You know, you do everything for us. You've taken all the bullets, You've done this. We love you, We love you. Those people are nowhere to be found and they will fire you, sell you, trade you for a bag of catfish if it helps them. That's the business. And so I'm glad
that TJ and Amy brought this up. But I hope that they brought it up not to be bitter about it, but to just say, hey, this is something that happened to us, because it happens to everybody in their life at some point in some way, and I think it's a really monumental important thing to learn.
Yeah, TJ said, quote, we get it to a certain degree. Everybody's trying to hold on to their job. They don't want to be seen as being an ally of the two people that ABC News doesn't like. We get it to a certain degree. We stayed away from some of our former colleagues because we were so worried about them. I mean, yeah, it's look, I could you don't want to we would do that. Yeah, we did because we
didn't want people's jobs to be affected. I mean when we went through everything, you were so I don't even know how many times you said like you didn't you just wanted the show to be okay because you didn't want people lose their jobs. Yeah, And you know what's sticking out to me too, And it's a similarity between my dad and you.
Is also time Like that is what's a little weird.
Is it's sort of easy to say, oh, your work friends, Like it's easy to say what I just said, your work friends aren't your real friends. But when you have longevity at a place, like you'd been at the show for twenty years. My dad had been at his law firm for like thirty years, so you do think at a certain point, like we're friends, right, I've known you twenty years that I've heard about your kids growing up?
And what was that like for you? Because I don't have that same like I'll talk about my dad' stuff in a minute, but what was the What was it like with somebody who maybe you weren't best friends with but you'd known them twenty years at the show and were there people who didn't who disappointed you like that?
Yes, there were people that disappointed me. You know what. It was a lot of people that I helped kind of bring up in the business, and I fought form and I really tried to teach them, and because I loved being a mentor in that world and have watched young people grow up, because again we're a victim of our own success over there. So we'd been together so long. People had started on the show as interns or pas or what have you, that's like the lowest level of production,
and moved into really great roles. And so to watch them on that ride, to support them and help them, you know, fight the fight and what can be a very tough, cruel business, and then to kind of have them turn their back on you in a very grand way.
Some were very public. There was there was kind of one public thing that happened that I was really disappointed in everybody, but like t like TJ just said, I also kind of understand because when you're a drowning person and if you try to help that person, they'll drag you down too. I think everybody saw me as well. I just got to stay away from that. I got
to save my own job. And there was there was some animosity that had grown between me and the losses, and so I think these people were like, look, I'm just going to keep my head down and stay the course. And so interestingly enough, and I'll be interested to know if this happens with TJ and Amy. Time can often heal a lot of those wounds. And there are people that have later come out and said, you know, I'm sorry,
I wish I had spoken up. You know, now that I have reflection upon that time, you know, I really feel bad about leaving you or not saying something.
And it's easy to get caught up in the pac mentality.
And I tell them thank you. I love that, but I also understand because you have to always remember the moment and have some grace and compassion for what everybody was dealing with in that moment, because again later we think, oh, it wasn't that bad, or that wasn't that crazy, Why didn't you say something? You got to remember that moment and how crazy it was, because it was just as crazy for them, and so you got to have a little compassion and grace as far as that goes to.
And you know, I felt like that in my marriage, you know, when I got divorced. You've got to give people the grace to be like it's confusing for them too.
Yeah, I've had friends like apologize to me later and say I wasn't really there for you when your dad died, Like I gave you a card right when it happened, but I wasn't there for you. And I have no anger. I'm like, oh my god, we were like twenty two years old, Like nobody understood it and nobody got it.
I think is emotionally are they equipped to come to you?
Yeah. I do have some resentment about like certain family members who I don't think we're there for my family, who should have known better, who were adults.
Like.
And you know my dad's I mentioned my dad's company where he worked.
He was there for thirty years, And I.
Do think one thing my dad did was he spent so much time where he worked because he wanted to provide a good life for his family, and he didn't really invest in that many friendships, Like he had work and he had his family, and that was all of his time. And I do think he thought the people
who he worked with were his friends. I have not heard from any of those people since the funeral, not ones, and that blows my mind when I think about it, because I watched them stand up there and talk about him, and I put together my twenty one year old self with the help of a friend, cried over putting togethers sorry the slideshow of his life, and you know, it was a lot of work stuff and that was his time away from his kids and everybody who I met
who he worked with. One thing did make me really happy was like they knew so much about me because they were like, oh, all your dad did.
Was talk about you guys.
But they didn't reach out, you know, they didn't check on us. And that was like a learning moment for me, and a lesson. I kind of wish I'd remembered a little harder when we went through everything, which is like you might think that these people are your friends, but sometimes when I connective.
Thread the job or whatever it is, or maybe they had.
Their own issues or resentments, like that goes away and maybe part of it wasn't real, you know, it just it shines a light.
And to me, I think, you know.
As we're all operating different friendships in our life, like, yeah, I get the I you know, I've got kids to provide for and I have my own job to worry but I get that.
But I will say, you want to be able to.
Lay your head on the pillow at night and think I did the right thing.
Yeah, And I.
Think in your situation, there were some people, and those were the people who later reached out back to you who looked back and thought I didn't do the right thing.
I should have stood up.
For him, like the behind the scenes people who didn't have to stand up for you publicly but should have stood up for you behind the scenes, or the people who should have reached out more they knew that they didn't do the right thing there.
And the good thing is, at the end of the day, I know you and I can put our head down on the pillow and know that we did do the right thing through that whole situation. We didn't, you know, try to burn Rome down. We didn't try to take anybody personal down. And I think the takeaway from all of this is, and we always talk about, be careful of what defined you in this world. Be careful if it's your job, be careful what you know, what defines
who you are. But also be careful who defined you and who you really put your stock in, and who really is the sum total of you. The people that are closest to you, you know, think long and hard about who those people are, what they represent, and what they give you and what you give them. And this goes both ways. Who are you to them? Are you a good friend? Are you that person? Are you that mentor are you the person that'll go the extra mile? Are you the person that when they just lost their
mom or dad you really were there for them. You know this isn't just on everybody else. You are a part of this as well. Are you that good of a human being? But I guess the takeaway is because ful of not only what defines you, but who.
Yeah, the simple test for me is this friend, this partner, whoever it is. Are they making you better? Are you making them better? Are you both challenging each other to be better? Are they like growing you as a person and not in like a distinct let's have a talk
about this way. But like I surround myself, my friends are all honestly like really and we've stayed friends because they're all super smart, driven, loving women like in their careers and being moms, And so they make me better just in who they are and in all the conversations we have, not in like an overt way, but in all the things we talk about, in the perspectives that they give me.
So Yeah, you know, it's interesting.
I just thought of something. You know, my late great grandmother always used to say, Chris, surround yourself with people who are greater, equal, or greater than you, and people that will help you grow. It's kind of what you were just saying. And what I realized as I look back, is I away from that in my professional life. I was not around good people in my professional life, and
I think I got caught up in the machine. I got caught up in the glitz and the glamor of it all, and I didn't look at what was really important, and so I didn't surround myself with people that are equal or better than me as human beings. They weren't good people. And I think that's why I'm so excited about what we're doing now with Merritt Street, is we have surrounded ourselves with people who are equal or better and good people. And I look back and I'm like, damn, you know what that's on me?
No, But look you also again, you had kids in a family, and you had a job, and I think you love the fans. That's the thing is, it's like very much everybody who watched the show that was always such a good relationship for you, and I think, I really think that's what kept you at the show as long as it did.
I mean, I'm speaking for you for sure.
That connection and that love and the joy that you know as you walk through an airport that everybody seemed to have, you know, it's what it was, that connective tissue.
For so many relationship people.
Great people and a lot of people. Again, a lot of people I did work with were very wonderful and our good friends.
But you're right as we walk into Merit, that's something you and I like why we signed on with Merret really early. We talked about like whoa, We didn't know it could be like this, Like these people are all they all seem to be really good people in Hollywood that's hard to come by, so we are super excited for all that's to come. Hope this has given everybody
a little perspective today. Please feel free to dm us with your thoughts or more, and as always, we love talking to you guys, and we will talk to you next time because we have a lot more to talk about.
Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most Dramatic pod ever, and make sure to write us a review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you next time.