Dropping like Fleiss

down and do this episode. I mean, we're planning to do it, and then some major news did hit though, babe, and I have to say, it's making me wonder what kind of questions we might get today because I've had several people text me, call me ask if you were going to do a podcast about the news that broke this week, which is that the creator of The Bachelor, Mike Flice, your longtime boss of about twenty years, the man who hired you, has quote per the article, stepped down,

stepped away from the show. So several people reaching out and asking is Chris gonna do like an emergency podcast on this But you know, obviously, you know, I've had like twenty four hours to process this news. I didn't want to ask for everybody out there, though, what was your first reaction? I actually what was giving me your first emotional or one word for when you first saw the headline? Surprising. I was surprised. It was news that

filtered out early Tuesday morning. Obviously planned very carefully to come out after the finale on Monday night, early Tuesday morning. This announcement comes out and very surprising. I would say, I had to sum it up in one word, it's very interesting. It's very interesting to me. Obviously, before you and I ever started dating, I covered the show as a journalist for three three I don't know, three four years before we started dating. And then we started dating,

and I continued to written. We kind of kept things separate, you know. I wanted to cover it from a place of also joy, and so I would ask you to not tell me spoilers and not tell me things. But this is very it's very interesting. Maybe do you want to explain for everybody because this is kind of, on the one hand, huge news for the Bachelor world, but on the other hand, like I watched a lot of shows and I don't know who the creator of those shows might be, So do you want to explain for

everybody who make places. Yeah, because it's kind of interesting. You know, this is huge news, It is massive. Mike Flice created The Bachelor, it was his idea, it was his baby. He's the person who hired me, as Lauren said back in two thousand and one, that's who I met first. That's who I had several meetings with. That's who was on hand every day of the show, especially

early on. His involvement ebbed and flowed throughout the years, but that's who's made every major decision casting who the Bachelor bacherette is, the direction of the show, the pulse of the show. That is what the creator and slash executive producer does. So that's who Mike Fleiss is or was to the show before he quote unquote stepped away

as of Tuesday morning. And I say that because this is what I found confusing about this surprising announcement is I'm not sure what that means stepped away, Because as the creator of a show, you can be a lot of things. You can be active, you can be an executive producer and be there day to day, or you can just sit at home and collect mailbox money. There's nothing to step into or step away from? Right. Yeah again,

I guess I'll put on my journalist hat here. And when I first read this article, the first sentences Mike Fleiss is stepping down in the I'm in the article Deadline Hollywood, which is where I think it first came out. Mike Fleiss is stepping down from the creative team of the Bachelor franchise after more than twenty years. Look, I'll be honest. My first reaction was l ol, I just don't buy it. I don't think that Mike is stepping down. I don't know why he would. It's the this franchise

is from what I always understood his whole world. This is the show he's known for, and these are the only shows he does. And there's no reason. There's not a reason ever given in the article. And I don't know why it's something you would need to announce like stepping down. Why would you need to Why would what would be the points like there's no he's stepping down to do this or away from or there's no reason given,

which is very strange to me. Maybe let me give some some backdrop on what Lauren saying that has nothing to do with this show and nothing to do with this person. Mark Burnett incredibly creative, brilliant man, creator of Survivor, if you didn't know, among many other things, The Apprentice and other great shows. He quote unquote stepped away from Survivor many moons ago. Jeff Probst and his crew took

that show over a long time ago. There's no major announcements because Burnett's still it's still his baby, it's still his show. He's still the creator of the show. But he quote unquote stepped away. Would you compare if you're a parent and you announce I'm stepping away from parenting my Child's like, get it? It doesn't make sense to me. And there's one sentence in particular that I actually take issue with it this article having covered the show for

many years quote. While he's remained associated with the franchise, Fleiss hasn't been involved in the day to day operations of each series in about a decade. First of all, if you just go look at his Twitter, Mike, that's either not true or Mike doesn't want you to think that's true. Because he would tweet photos from the set. He would say at night one, here we go. He would tweet that he was making major announcements about the show. He would say, this news is coming up. He would say,

are you watching? And I mean, it was always my understanding that he was like I'd heard from other journalists that he was in the control room on night one. There were some journalists who were sometimes brought into the control room. I never was I and that and that was very recent. That was in my time on the show. I think somebody did. Somebody did like a piece like reporting from the control room a few years ago. Who

was it. Was it Christin Baldwin, Yes, and she was like live in the control room, and I think she talked about it. So if you're in the control room on night one, I don't that's you being pretty involved in the operations of the show. And I mean, I have met Mike a few times, but it's been at Bachelor things. He was when they started to do the those Bachelor live when they tried to do that live tour with Ben and Becca a few years ago, he

was like there on the opening night. It was my understanding that Mike was still involved in a lot of the show, and to say he wasn't for a decade is wild to me. There are obviously a lot of things I know and I just can't say, but there are a lot of things that make you go. I can definitely say more will come out only that I know. I don't know what these people are working on, but I heard that there are multiple journalists working very hard

on this story, and that I found very interesting. And again, I don't know anything about what those journalists are working on, but I did hear that that is happening, So there is a lot more to come. We will follow this story because obviously it is a big story that I don't think we'll just be swept under the rug because it came out Tuesday morning, the night after The Bats are finale. Hey, guys, sorry to interrupt, but I'm just curious, who are these producers that are taking over? How do

you feel about this, Kendall Producer Kendall. I love when Kendall jumpson because Kendall is such a long time fan of the show. Kendell, I'm glad that you brought that up because that stuck out to me too, actually, and I'd forgotten to mention it. So it says longtime executive producer Bennett Grabner, along with Claire Freeland and Jason Erlick. We'll be taking over as executive producers and showrunners for

the franchise. Now. I know Bennett. I'd met Bennett several times covering the show over the years, and he's just been there a long time. That was not surprising to me. But having covered it and met meeting several of the producers year after year, I was really surprised by these other two names because I don't know them, and many

other producers had come to mind for me. Who I would have thought the show would have promoted along with Bennett, people who've been putting their time in there, who are incredibly talented people. So, Babe, do you know Claire and Jason? I think it says Claire was from Bachelor Canada. Yeah, so Claire, I do not know she came from Bachelor Canada. Jason Erlich worked with me. He's an old friend. I've

known Jason for many, many years. Famous uncle Kenn Erlick who did the Grammys and a lot of award shows for many years. Yeah they're related. Nepo baby, no different story, but yeah, Jay worked on the show for many years and then went off and then kind of came back and forth and jumped in a bunch of reality shows. And then obviously Bennett, as you said, you know Bennett. He's an old friend as well. Bennett's been with me on the show for decades. He came rose through the

ranks and talented producer. And so yeah, those three are now according to this article in Charge, you know the Bennet of it all. Even Jason Erlick not there's most shocking. But I was a little surprised. There were a lot of people I worked with for decades who are unbelievably talented that I thought that their names would be on this list. Were even either executive producers or co executive producers that aren't there anymore. And that's that again surprises me. Again.

I'm just speaking from my experience of covering the show. Look, I would sit on set for hours to explain you, guys, like I would go on what's called a set visit, and so that means you sit on the set and you wait for hours waiting for the contestants or the bachelor bachelorette to be available to do an interview. And during those hours of waiting for when they'd have a break in production, I would talk with the producers and make small talk with them and get to know them

a little bit. And again, many of them are just lovely and talented. Some incredible female producers there by the way. And I would hear a lot from producers frustrations that they were not getting the chance to move up, that they were not getting their talent fostered, that they were not getting opportunity on the show. So that popped into my mind a little bit when I saw that these

other two names, again, I just knew. I mean, I covered the show for like six seven years, and there are so many other producers who I thought would have been in that trio with Bennett, and so I was just a little bit surprised by this. And I don't really understand why, what it means, or where it comes from. It's another strange point of note in this article to me,

so very mysterious. I think what it leads you to believe is that there is more to this story, more to this than what was kind of quietly put out Tuesday morning, the day after the finale. So there's a lot more to talk about when it comes to this. I know there's journalists and other people looking into this that think there is more smoke where this fire's burning. So we'll see, We're gonna wait and see. We'll continue to follow it up with you, Chris. We actually had

a direct message. That's a great question, and I'm actually curious what the answer is. Did Mike Fleiss hire you? And how did he find you? Yeah, it was he actually did. Being the creator of the show, he was you know, there were others involved, obviously from the network in the studio, but yes, he was the first meeting I had, and he was essentially the person that had to give the final say, just like he does on who the Bachelor Bacherette's going to be, etc. So yeah,

he hired me. And it was really a funny story because I did less to get this job as the Bachelor host than pretty much any job I had ever had in my life. There were you know, usually you'll have to go in and read or you'll audition, but there was just this show that was rumored about for quite some time, like six to eight months, and I had an agent. My agent said, there is this reality show and again this is early days, so that didn't

even mean much. And it's this kind of relationship show about dating and it seemed very odd, very weird, and all I knew it was from the guy who did it Who wants to Marry a Millionaire or whatever that old Rick Rockwell Darvia Congress show that was on Fox. And when the list there was, you know, there's always a list in Hollywood. This list got narrowed down, narrowed down, narrowdown. I ended up on the final four, and they said

they would like to meet with you. I went in and met with Mike and some other executives and the meeting was horrible. I mean it was a disaster. Mike and I hated each other. It was like oil and water. Really yeah, it was, I mean the worst meeting hate someone in a meeting. What happened? We just we just didn't get along, honestly. So, my son Josh had just been born. He was like six weeks old. I was so tired. I think I probably had spit up on my jacket. I was just a mess, and so on me.

I did not put my best face forward. They were looking for. What I heard was the guy next door kind of that just married, you know, a dad, someone who wasn't threatening. Yeah, you know it was interesting. I remember you told me they really wanted someone who was married. Yeah, and another thing that was in my favor, they wanted

a no name. A lot of times, what they'll do with shows is, oh, we really want a name that'll help sell and help promote the show, and so you know, it's like, oh, bring in Jimmy Kimmel, will bring in Jerry Seinfeld or whatever, so that'll help. And they wanted an unknown. They didn't want anybody to steal the limelight from who the Bachelor bacherette was. Thankfully that played right

into my hands because I was an absolute nobody. When it makes sense they wanted someone married because you're going to be around possiful of women. Yeah, they didn't want it. I want questions raised or but I did hear later it's funny that first season because nobody knew the concept. No one knew what the heck was going on, and we didn't even really understand how to set up Night one.

When everyone got out of the limo, there was Alex Michelle, the first bachelor, and I stood like twenty feet behind him, and I heard later, you know, to us, he was obvious, but the women, they had no clue. So they got out of the limo and the women said, well, I don't know who the bachelor, which one is the guy? Which dude is it? Yeah? Which one am I supposed to be excited about. So that's how it kind of started. And then later obviously I was nowhere to be seen

on the arrivals and all that stuff. We clearly got the hint. But that's how it all started. When. But so in that meeting, what went wrong? It was just we were like oil and water. Realized we were you know, I was, you know, buttoned up and my suit and tie, you know, hair combed, combed over and you know, typical ready for a job interview. And Mike Flice is kind of this large man that wears sunglasses indoors and wears

flip flops and yeah, very la. And so I see you were like Texas, We're a college shirt and he was like, lam in my flip flop. Yeah. At that point in my life, I was fresh off the boat from Oklahoma City. So I'm coming out of Oklahoma, Oklahoma City, where I'm a newscaster, sportscaster, and I meet this very La guy, and I don't get this city. I don't get to Hollywood. That's not me it's not my family, it's not my life. So we just didn't click at all.

But bizarrely, I got a call several weeks later that says, they want to meet you again, And I said, why to continue this joke? Like are they punking me? They just want to see how much worse I can be. But I went in and flies came out and he yelled across the room. He's like, Harrison, you were horrible at our first meeting, but I hear you're a good guy. Let's do this again. And despite our differences, we hit it off and I got the job and the show

began that spring. That was like in October whatever, November two thousand and one, heading into the holidays. And then that spring of two thousand and two is when we started shooting the show and we started the Bachelor franchise. But that's how it all began. And so yeah, he was he was there from day one. Let's go back to the phone lines. Julie's calling in from Sacramento, California. Julie, what's on your mind today? Well, I'm wondering your thoughts.

I've watched this show from the very very beginning, and this was the one season that I chose not to watch it. I couldn't even record it. Oh wow, why what? What? What made you change like that? What made you turn away? I don't know. I'm just bored. I'm bored with that super predictable, you know. I mean, I just feel like

I could write the script. Well that's I guess if you feel like if if you feel like there is a script and there's a format that's repeating itself over and over and over, then yeah, that that you know is something and you know, look there there is something to that of the ratings, you know, being down there. This season was again the lowest rated season. Monday Night's finale was by far the lowest rated finale in the

history of the show. And there was something to know going in and talking to the bachelors or bachelrettes and I would say, Okay, we're getting ready to travel or we're doing this, and there was nothing that they didn't know. I mean, these people, as you just said, Julie, you grew up. You're going to date yourself because you've been watching you said from the beginning. That's twenty one years,

so you've been around as long as I have. Obviously, it's formulaic and things haven't changed that much in those two decades, and so the audience, you're not dumb. You know what's going on with reality TV, and so yeah, when you know what's coming next week and you've seen it and done it before, it's hard to watch over and over. Well, I think what you were alluding to,

Babe by Julie, how are you? I think what maybe you were alluding to, though, is the idea, like you just mentioned, when you would go in and people would

know what was coming. I do. It's interesting. A couple of years ago we started talking as I was covering the show about how you know, and I think everybody felt there's this problem with people wanting to come on the show just to be influencers, Like they know they're going to come on the show and they're going to get a certain following out of it, and so that takes away that genuine desire for love and makes it all seem fakeer and kind of gets them in their

heads on the way they're being on the show. I think now what you have. An addition to that issue is that people auditioning for the show have grown up watching the show, so they know the formula inside and out. It's like when you you know, when you've like prepared and studied for a test, you know, they just know what's coming. They're like, oh, here's where hometowns are going to happen, or here's where the travel is going to get announced now, And I wonder if that's contributing to

the boringness of it. But Julie, what do you think what's turning you off about it at this point? Well, okay, here's I mean, let's again dating myself, so twenty one years, I'm almost fifty four, so I mean I feel like an old lady. I'm watching girls that would be my daughter's age, So that could be part of it too, that it's just not interesting anymore at my age. That's a demographic change, right, Well, Julie, whatever. First of all, I think fifty four is you're a young as young

spring chicken to me. But I mean because I'm look, I'm in the same boat as you, not from the aspect of watching somebody who's twenty five. But I from the very beginning of covering the show, I always struggled with, like, actually, if you go back, babe, the very first Bachelor was in his early thirties, right, he was like thirty one, thirty two. Yeah, I believe Alex was. Yeah, I think he was thirty thirty one. I think this bachelor's twenty six. Maybe.

I've struggled for years with covering. I know it's not that many years of a difference, but there is something very different about where you're at and how ready you really are to get engaged at like twenty people. I'm not saying person a person, it could be different, but overall, I've struggled for years with twenty four, twenty five year

olds versus thirty two thirty three year olds. I think are in a very different place, and I do think that genuineness has been missing from how young the contestants on the show have continued to get over the years. Julie, thank you so much for your call, and I'm sorry you lost one of the great loves of your life in this show. I'm glad we were there for you for so many years, but it is it's tough when you when you kind of wake up and realize this doesn't do it for me anymore, and then you got

to go find that new thing. And so I hope you I hope you find the new loves. Thanks Julie. Elsie, you had a good point you brought up to me the other day because you mentioned something that just struck with me about the influencers and people that came on the show, and you noticed how that's changed dramatically as far as their impressions and their involvedment. Oh yeah, this was well, we were just talking about. I look, I'll be honest, I haven't watched the show since you left.

I had not looked up anybody on social media from the show in a why And I was just curious because I did see the headline this week that it was once again, I mean honestly, every season since you've left, it's been the lowest rated show, the new lowest ratings that there's been. And then I saw a headline when they announced Mike Flice's leaving. There was some headline like is this the beginning of the end for the Bachelor?

And I was just curious, and I went and looked at the instagrams of the leaving bachelor and the leaving the exiting woman then he picked and the new Bachelorette. Yeah, I looked at the new Bachelorette and the guy the Bachelor leaving the show, I think when I looked, had one hundred and forty thousand Instagram followers, And that spoke volumes to me because it used to be a million.

It used to be one. You would leave the show as the lead with about a million followers, typically pretty much a week after we announced you were the Bachelor of the Bachelorette, you'd be at almost a million already before your season for guys who guys get much less following than women do, the vecherettes blow up even more. But I mean one hundred and forty thousand followers that and then I thought, you know, maybe I'm maybe the

following is happening on TikTok now. And then I went on looked on TikTok, and I could be wrong if I was looking at the wrong account, but I think

he had five thousand followers on TikTok. Five thousand. Like that's wild to me, because I do think that probably what the show has been saying over the years the past year or so is like, well, the ratings are down, but like the streaming numbers are up, but if people are watching it on streaming and still loving it, then they would still be going and following these people on

social media and that is not happening. Yeah, it makes you kind of go back to a point we made weeks ago, which is the social relevance is just not there. But you know who is there? Abby from Cleveland, Ohio is here with us on the line, Abbe, what's going on? Hi, guys? I love you guys both so much. I literally have The Bachelor and in the background, but I have it on mute because honestly, I kind of want to echo what you guys were saying about, like how this season

just hasn't been as great. I definitely like feel the same way like I feel like it hasn't been I don't know, it's not the same since Chris left. I think that's pretty obvious. But yeah, it's just not been like as good in my opinion. Well, it's interesting, is there something in particular? Abby? Well, so I love that it's now your background. It's like CNN at the airport.

It's just on a TV, just playing. But you know, I saw you know, stories written and social media, you know, saying that this was a snooze fest and people were bored by it. But I'm curious because I don't watch. I haven't watched since I left. Is there something in particular you feel has changed? Is there a tangible just reason why it has now means less to you? I think I honestly have a hard time like pinpointing. But I think the last season I really enjoyed was probably

Um Pilot Pizza. That was great television. Yes, I don't I don't know like what it is in particular, but it just it's dropped off for me a little bit, like I don't know, And I really think it has a lot to do with you, Chris, like leaving, but maybe just maybe it's bar Yeah, we all miss Bart, you know, maybe she was the key to this whole show.

I think you I think I would agree with you, Abby, But yeah, those couple of seasons there was a run there with like Hannah, Colton and Peter where there were some major moments. You just had TV moments, Colton jumping the fence, Barb, Hannah and Luke and her moving that pedestal away from him at the Rose ceremony, Like those moments so stick in my mind, and that was really

good television. I just love that. I'll never forget stating there and Hannah just picking up the entire rose pedestal, which, by the way, was it very light and while like I'm taking my ball and going home. Yes, that was brilliant. But yeah, those were epic seasons. Do you have a question? My question for you, Chris was what season of The Bachelor was your favorite to work on? Well, the way

you kind of articulated that question is very interesting. My favorite to work on is a great question, because it's not my favorite season per se. The one I enjoyed working on the most, honestly, would have to do with my kids. Most of the major events on The Bachelor I can relate to my children. My son was born when I got the job, and my daughter was born.

I'll never forget it was right around Tristan and Ryan's wedding and Meredith season of The Bachelorette was wrapping up, and so I remember my kids being born on this show, growing up on this show, traveling with me. They lived with me in Paris, they lived with me in Italy, and so those of the season's early days, when you know, it was more about walking down to the Trucadero and getting as my kids called a crape, a chocolate taco and sitting there and watching the Eiffel Tower light up

at night. And so those are the nights and the seasons that meant the most to me, and I guess I would go further. There are seasons where I just met dear, dear friends, people that are now a part of my life, our life as Elzie sitting here, like Andrew Firestone, Bob Guiney, Trista, Joejoe like. There's people that came into my life, Ben Higgins, you know, and I'm forgetting many. But those are all special seasons to me

that I really enjoyed working on. Some you know, weren't as fun as others, but it's work, just like everybody else's job. There were some seasons that were tougher than others to get through. Yeah, absolutely, I love hearing that. That's so cool that your kids got to travel and everything too. That's awesome it was, and to watch them

grow up under that was pretty good. And by the way, thanks to all the teachers out there, because I, you know, would allow us to say, hey, by the way, we're leaving this week again, can you just send the homework with us? And so we got a lot of support back home. But Abby, I appreciate Collin and thank you for listening. And I hope you find love either in this show or a new show soon. Yeah, I hope. So thanks Abby. We're gonna go to Katie in Ben Higgins'

home state of Indiana. She's up next. Hey Katie, Hi, Oh thanks, I'll just take you quick. Um, it's nice to be on the found you guys. Cool. I love looking to your podcast. Um. I just had a question, would you ever consider going back to the Bachelor now that there are new producers involved? Great question, Katie, great question.

I said this before when the rumors came out that were swirling several weeks ago about ABC or whoever the network talking about bringing me back or asking me to come back, and I said at that time, never say never. But I also said at that time there were some things that would have to happen. And it's not just financially. There are things that would have to change and things that would have to happen. I can say one of those things has happened. One of those things, one of

the biggest hurdles, has now happened. Now does that mean I want to go back or would not necessarily? I love my time on the show, and I liken it to a relationship. It's not necessarily a great idea to go back into a relationship because you just remember the fun great things about it. There were some bad things that you obviously got away from that were toxic and bad, or there wouldn't have been a breakup in the first place. So again, I never you know, as my mom taught me,

I'll never say never. But that has you know. Things things change in life, things can change. Well, you have been my favorite host, and when you asked, I was definitely sad, and I've watched a few season then, but I agree with everyone else. I think you've been the best post. Thank you, Katie. I appreciate it. And there there was one other part of your question that I will finish, um, because you mentioned about working for different

producers because there are new producers. Well, two of them I actually know very well, and they're both I would consider friends of mine, and that is Jason and Bennett. Bennet and I have worked together for many years. We still talk and text and Um he's a good man and a good producer, and so is Jason and Um

Jason actually met his wife on the show. His wife was a bachelorette on Doctor Travis Storks season and it was a contestant on the show, and they it was it didn't and by the way, nothing there was nothing nefarious. Let me just clean this up. Nothing nefarious. Nothing happened while they were on the show. It was much later that they reconnected and fell in love and got married,

and they'd been married for quite some time. But you know, Jason and Bennett and I know, um the woman they brought down from Bachelor Canada, I don't know, but obviously they feel like she can do the job. So it really wouldn't be that strange. As far as going back to people, I don't know, but Katie, thank you. I appreciate it. All right, Thank you guys so much. I hope you guys have a wonderful day. Thank you you too. God bless And let's go to Lisa, coming in from Tennessee.

We've been all over the map today. Hi Lisa, what's your question? Hi guys, go first? Oh okay, so huge, huge fan of both y'all. Thank Jim oh. I love your accent. Lisa. We have what for the beginning from the first season and actually Chris since I'm always going to be fans. He called me one day and said, you know, you should meet him. I'm married, so she sometimes said a good fans. She's like, you should be on he loves to be a millionaire. You can't be on the bat Flare. So I was on with you.

I was a contestant on your show, No Way, and yeah, I met you in the Beginner's Luck week. Do you remember that one that the contestants who had never been to Vega? I was. I say, so, we're talking Vegas because I shot. I shot in Connecticut one year, so you you were during the Vegas year and we had beginners Luckily. Yeah, where we did a I think it was a tie in with Caesar's or whoever it was, and so yeah, we brought people in put you up. Yeah I do remember that. That's that's amazing. How do

you do, by the way, did? I did pretty well? But I see what I remember about you. You were just as nice and sweet in person as I thought you'd be. And I know how it sounds that I met other celebrities and that's not always the case. Well, thank you, that's why you know you were exactly you were the Chris Harrison that I saw The Bachelor, and I think, actually, I've been listening and you were talking

about what the show's lacking. I remember our conversation. I remember you asking me questions in between us, you know, tasting the show, where I was from, what was my job, you know, the colleagues that I taught out at the time, and you were very focused and I think there's a lack of that. Nothing against Jessey, but I think when you talked to contestant, you were focused on them and very authentic, and I think that's what it is lacking.

I really do thank you. Lisa's part of what you brought to But I do have a question for you. Oh yes, please um since you yeah, since you found love after divorce, as have I, because you know, the Bators different. Everybody out here looking for love is you know, in their twenties or thirties, you go out of viewers. Fortunately I found love too, so I'm happily married, just like you guys are going to be. But haven't said that?

What advoss would you give for your viewers who are in their forties and haven't to navigate being single again? Because there's a completely different dating world as you know, um, you know, when it's been you know, ten twenty years since you've been out there. For me, I guess my advice because this is what I did. Find your own lane and find your own speed, and it's not a one size fits all, and it's up to you to

make it your priority. And I do think you have to treat it a bit a little bit like a job. If you're going to date, it has to be something that's important to you to go put yourself out there in whatever arena that is. If you want to try the apps, if you want to try it, that's fine. But maybe you're a different type of person and you want to just try and meet someone at church, or you want to meet someone in a church group or something different in that regard. So find your speed in

your lane and go with that. Because it's what works for Lisa is not what's going to work for me. It's not what's going to work for Elz and Elza. You weren't married for twenty years, but you had to do the same thing. You had to get back out there in this modern age and you had to decide. Well, when you just said treat it like a job, I'm a theater kid, and I always made it made the analogy of you've got to like do rehearsals, you know, I think that I think it can be a really

intimidating thing to start dating again. But I would just tell myself, look, what am I really going to lose if I go out on this date and it amounts to nothing, you know, nothing really like, Okay, I had a date, it didn't work out. It doesn't reflect on me. It just means we weren't a good match. I think a lot of the time people take rejection personally it's

very hard not to. But I looked at it as you're just trying to find the right Finn, and we weren't the right Finn, and that's okay, And you just kind of have to know you're going to have to get those reps in to find that right person. You are going to have rejection. You are going to have dates that go bad because you've got to get your rehearsals or your practices in before you find that new

right person again. You think about how long you were married, Well, it's going to take a little while to get back in the dating pool again. So don't be discouraged and It's just as important to know what you don't like and what you don't want out of love and life as it is to know what you do want. And the only way you know what you don't like is to find out, and that's going on dates. And look, those bad dates, they made for good stories that I

still tell to this day. And I'm sure many of those women tell stories about our first date and how bad it was. Well, Lisa, I appreciate the time. And by the way, I'm so glad you found love. Oh okay, thank you, thank you, and congrats. I can't wait to see this wedding. And I'm so happy for you guys. Lisa, thank you. What a sweetheart. Thank you. From Tennessee, let's drop down to Florida. Sarah Sarah, Hi, you just might be the final call tonight, so the pressure is on. No, Sarah,

how are you doing? I'm great? How are you phenomenal? I just have a smile on my face, honestly because I'm just talking to listeners and I enjoy this, Elsie and I love this. Oh, that's so wonderful. And your relationship, this seems so beautiful. You and Laurence seem so happy

and I'm happy that you seem happy. I've been watching The Bachelor since the very beginning and you starting this podcast has been so therapeutic for me because I've been going through just sadness and withdrawal not watching you on the show, as I'm sure there are many fans who have felt that way. And Katie brushed John what I was going to ask you, you know, how do we get Chris to come back? And whether you even want to or not. You know, I can tell that you've

made a peace with a lot of what's happened. But my question was going to be, as a fan base, is there anything that we could do to our love for Chris Harris? And first of all, Sarah, those are

unbelievably kind words, and thank you. I have found peace and that is the best thing you can say about me and about this whole thing that's happened and going through this process as I am one piece and this podcast has been cathartic for me just as much as it has apparently for you, and being able to come out here and connect again and talk and it has kind of reignited the fire, and so to go maybe a little bit further on a question I answered earlier

from Katie about coming back. You know, coming back doesn't necessarily mean it has to be on the Bachelor or Bachelorette, and maybe there's a better way, Maybe there's a new way, and so I'll leave it at that for now. I want to thank everybody who took the time to call in today. Truly appreciate talking to you. That's what this whole show is all about. It's what the podcast is all about. As one of our callers said, just reconnecting, a chance for all of us to be together and

speaking of this show obviously is for you. So I'm curious who would you like to hear and see on the show. If you have a suggestion of a guest that you would like me to bring on to interview to talk to, let me know, leave it the comments below. Go to our Instagram page at the Most Dramatic Pod Ever and let us know your thoughts and you can always leave your questions and comments there as well. Again,

thank you so much. We will continue to follow the big story out of The Bachelor as well, because I think there's a lot more to be said out of that. But in the meantime, thank you for listening. And I'll talk to you next time because we have a lot more to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most Dramatic pod Ever, and make sure to write us a review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you next time.