Cheryl Burke needs some TLC

forward to doing that. We're gonna do it just a little bit. But first, Elsie, we gotta put I don't think we're gonna put a pin in it, because this thing's going to continue on. But the vander Pump rule scandal has since we talked about it just a couple of days ago, has taken several more big key steps.

It has gotten physical, it has gotten litigious. Well, what you're referring to is, yes, that Raquel Rachel filed a restraining order against a cast member against Shena, alleging that Shena punched her or somehow gave her a black eye. And what that is apparently from or at least whatever

the incident was, was that in that moment. That was the moment Shena found out they were together, the two of them after taping Watch what Happens Live in New York where they're promoting the show, and Raquel, according to all the different accounts and reports, goes to take a phone call. The phone calls from Arianna. Arianna's calling her saying what you know, something like, what the hell is

this video that I found? Shena comes outside to check on Raquel, and what alarms me the most about this is that apparently Raquel sort of casually said to Shena, Oh, I'm on the phone with Arianna about because I've been having an affair with Tom. And that's when Shena, who allegedly who knows some kind of incident happened according to Riquel, So who knows? I got to tell you. Look, I don't condone physical violence ever, but I don't think Raquel.

I don't think Raquel should have filed the restraining order. I don't think there's a real It's completely my opinion, but I don't think there's a real threat of any future harm to her, And I think it makes her look bad. I mean, I don't disagree. I found it interesting when Raquel released her statement after she had been on Watch What Happens Live, and she said, beyond my own actions, I have been physically assaulted, lost friendships, received

death threats and hate emails. Most of that. I was like, Okay, I understand, but I was like, wait, physically assaulted. That's not something you just slip in a big statement like that. So I was interested if Moore was going to come out about it. And obviously now it has that she was shoved against a wall, suffered a head injury, and then was punched, and you can see because she filed a picture of herself with the court filing. For some people are like, it's faked, it's dramatic. Who knows, I'm

just playing the Devil's advocate here again. I'm not condoned physical violence. It's interesting to me, though, that you, because I think I'm I am so much more entrenched in it that you than you that like you think that that's kind of an interesting part of it, because it's all so much has happened that I'm like the physical violence, I'm not. Well, that takes it to another level. You know it's not on the show. This was something that really did happen, And I agree. Did she need to

file a restraining order? She'd already pulled herself away and left. I think unfortunately, filing the restraining order makes her look like petty, like mixed up, like it's just gonna make everybody hate her more at this point. Well, and I guess, allegedly is it Shanaina said or has stated that she doesn't regret it and if she hurts my friend again, I'll do it again. Um that that was one. That's

what she said in her filing. That's why Raquel filed, is that that was the kind of common sentiment out there. And so I just don't believe it. I don't. I don't know that what's she going to do, like show up to her house and beat her up. I mean, I'm just telling you my opinion. I don't think. To me, basically, here's what's happens. Since we've all left off everybody, I mean, maybe everyone is now following everything too up to the minute,

like like I am. But since we lasted this episode on Tuesday, Arianna, I mean, Tom released a statement, a second statement where he actually addresses Arianna, though he addressed himself much more. Rackel has released a statement which I thought was a well written statement for what it is. I mean, obviously she had a PR team helping her with it. I've read from Raquel's statement. It made me

think she's distanced herself from Tom. It made me think she's she's second guessed because all the reports were saying they're in love and they're going to try to be together, and there was a report they'd kissed in a scene on camera. But to me, it made it sound like

she's taken a pause there. Well, and Lisavaner Pump was on with Ady Cohen the other night and she did say they have you taped some scenes and they were together, and so maybe in the moment, because she hadn't stepped away, maybe they did, maybe they kissed and they were going to play this as you know, Tom and Raquel were moving on. But now that she's pulled herself away, hopefully she will come to her senses and hopefully maybe she

has changed her mind. Seem right to me, that's the smart thing there is, Raquel, And I'm not like, I don't know, I've changed my mind on all this A lot I've been going back and forth a lot. I'm exhausted and stressed out by it all because I'm so lost on the why still, like as I find out, as more and more comes out about it, and as I actually start to realize because I didn't watch last season of vander Pump Rules, I think I'm like, I'm doing a little more research and realizing that Raquel and

Arianna weren't just friends, they were very close friends. And I can't find the why here. I can't find what was Tom and Raquel's plan? What were they going to do? Well? That brings me up because I was going to ask you the question. This Lisa vander Pump theory, this was her theory that she talked about on the show, is that Tom and Rickell, We're gonna wait until after this reunion that, yeah, that was gonna be the only thing. I can think, get to the reunion, break up, and

then they had months to kind of let everything, Arianna breakup. Yeah, he and Arianna would break up, He and Riquel could be together, announce it, get past that reunion, and then they have a few months before they start taping again. Things calm down. They come back on the next season and Tom and Rickell are now a thing, and Arianna

they have broken up. So that was Lisa Vanderpump's theory that actually that was my that was what I also thought that could be the only maybe plan they had, and that's why I guess that's why they were keeping it. I don't know why though they'd keep it secret through this season, like just break up sooner and like break up before this season started filming. I don't know. I

also can't I can't get it. I think I'm more so, I mean, I'm lost on the why of why Raquel would be getting would be entrenching herself even closer with Arianna, would be I don't know, you had everybody loves guilt. Maybe you know, she felt so guilty about what she was doing behind her back that like I'm just going to try and overly lover. I don't know. It's a weird,

twisted thing to say, but I don't know. It's a you're right, the putting the why on this, like maybe Tom was telling her things about Arianna that you know, maybe Tom's painting Ariana as like because he keeps talking about her mental health, Maybe he was painting her as unstable in all that, and so Riquel was thinking, Oh, we really I'm in love with him and we really can't tell her yet, and I've got to be there

for as a friend. I don't know. I think also at this point, this is my opinion, I think Tom's a narcissist from everything I've seen, from what we've seen of him over the years, I think Tom's a narcissist. I think he's incredibly immature. I won't be surprised if more cheating comes out, that he cheated with more than Roquel and Arianna. Um. I just think he thinks he's smarter than everyone, and he thought he could get away with this. Raquel. I can't. I still don't know what

Raquel is. I don't like why. It's so painful now to watch I just watch this week's episode and to watch or hang out with Arianna. It's so painful. Everything is so cringe now. Everything they do is so cringe.

Do you think they're going to go back and re edit episodes now, the episodes they had in the can as as a producer, Yeah, what what you would do is you would go back and look at your stock footage, the stuff that probably got left on the cutting room floor, and you would bring that relationship in those scenes into

more prominence. You would definitely lay into that. What we would do often is, you know, on any show, on any reality show, if you're trying to beat a deadline, you start pre editing pretty early on your basic storylines. But if you see something resonating with your audience, if you see something that really pops in the ratings, clearly you're going to go now and heavily edit yet it. You will see much more of Ariana, Raquel and Tom.

Now here's another question. A lot of people think that that Raquel is going to try to avoid the reunion. The reunion tapes in two weeks. They had not taped the reunion yet. I think she should go to the reunion too. Why, I just I think she should own it. Yeah, you have to face it. Yeah, Yeah. If she comes in and doesn't play the victim and doesn't and look, she's going to take a beating. So you're going to You're going to mentally have to prepare yourself, Raquel, for

what's going to come. Take it. Own it. Just try and diffuse it by owning everything you did. When I did reunion shows, The worst thing people would do is they would come back and they wouldn't own who they were. It was just so difficult for somebody to admit they were wrong and to take that stance, and so they would fight it and it just made it worse, or

pouring gasoline on a fire. So I think she could come out of this not unscathed, but I think she could come out of its successful and maybe heal some of these scars. Tom, I don't think so. I think he's a dead man walking well. I mean you look at his statement too, and the things that he said, like like something like I wish things had happened in a different order, Tom, the only person controlling the order that all this happened in was you. You were the person.

So there's no wishing it had happened in a different order. It happened this way because you didn't known up to it. I think he's defensive. I mean, there are reports that he didn't as we said, like filming the scenes because he was painted in a negative light. That is a trade of narcissism. They've got to be the good person, the good guy, and I think he and it's on everybody else. If you're not, and I think he will come to that reunion very defensive, and it will only

be better for Raquel. I mean, I'm just strategizing here. I hope it's genuine, but I think it would only be better for her to come to the reunion to not be defensive, to own it completely, to fall on her knees and apologize, and that to you know, you want to talk about that. I mean, we've talked about this before, like when people cheat, the level of guilt

they have matters, right. And according to UM, I listened to some of Kristen Dody, who's a former cast member who's still friends with Everybody's podcast, and she said she was there when Tom was with Arianna after all this. She said he walked in and they're all there, and he goes, oh, I know everybody hates me. I'm the bad guy, and that he wasn't apologetic to Arianna, that he was just kind of gaslighting her, And I'm like, God, that just that sounds like narcissism to me. Or you

don't want everybody to think you're the bad guy. You're not grasping the gravity of it. You should be groveling, apologizing. I am so sorry I did this to you if you really loved this person. So I don't think Tom really loved Arianna. Not in the end here anyway, I don't know if he's capable of healthy life. I was just about to say the same thing. I don't think he's capable of it. I think he sounds like was he forty one? Forty one year old? Who like? You are who you are? I'm in a rock band in La.

I'm like, come on, dude, Like we can all evolve in change, but I think who you are, you are who you are at forty. I guess that's why I brought up Raquel's age and got again. I am not justifying what she did at I mean, what she did was horrible. No, she's not a child, and what she

did to her friend was horrible. The but I just hope I think she maybe still has time to look back and regret all this, if she can mentally get herself to the place she needs to be, because also, like, wow, what a choice to I don't know what she was thinking, or if she was thinking, because doing this meant she was going to lose this group of incredible women she

has she had as her best friends. Katie and and well, I mean, she wasn't great friends with Katie, but she was going to lose this group Shena and Arianna and Katie and Lala, and she was growing those relationships. And no matter what when this Tom thing came out, like you were going to lose that group of women, and a great group of women in your life is more important than almost anything A bad narcissistic want to be rock star. I think that's worth throwing your life away for.

I know. Look is her statement was her statement about how she's like addicted that she mentioned things like she's addicted to love and she she gets fulfillment from that. Was that written with the help of a PR team, Yes, But I don't think it was all wrong. It still felt like there was some self awareness. I thought there was a lot of good self awareness, and I thought, I rate, Okay, I'm gonna challenge you. I don't know if she has the self awareness yet. I think the

PR team's helping her, is telling her what to write. Maybe, But I mean I think I think whoever wrote that statement and had had some accuracy in their assessment of Raquel. Look at already on this season, she's like made out with or or going to be hooking up with like four guys from the show. I think she's getting her fulfillment and her confidence in all the wrong the attention. Yeah, it's which is easy to slip into that in this

reality world. Um, and what she did to her friend was awful but more but what Tom did to his partner is awful And the worst part is he doesn't seem to have any real remorse. Well, I'm all emotional about this. Now, this isn't a break, This isn't over. Obviously, this scandal will roll on because now we're obviously going to watch it play out on Vanderpump Rules. And as Lauren just alluded to, you watch each episode now and it's cruneworthy because you just will see things that make

your skin crawl when you see them together. And this will all lead us up to that just huge reunion. And again, I am so jealous you are to not be hosting that show. Andy. If you need help, if you get you know, laryngitis, call me. I will be there in a heartbeat. So I do want to say, you know, Arianna, I can't imagine well, I mean I can't imagine, but the pain she's going through right now, they're together almost a decade. She finds out he's sleeping

with her friend. It's been going on, some people now speculating it was going on even before last summer. So painful, so shocking to the system. But I do want to say anybody who's been cheated on, it's like Arianna, I promise you this, Things will get better from here. It is only bigger and better from here. You push through this pain, and you're going to look back and be so grateful actually that you were able to get out of this when you did, you are going to be

onto a much better relationship. And when you're in that better relationship, you're gonna think, oh gosh, I'm so glad I don't have to put up with Tom's anymore. I think it's it's I'm glad she's for you. This bullshit rule number one, This two show pass a lot. You are full team Arianna Talk Arianna. If you need another PEP talk, call Elsie. She is here for you. There is no other team speaking of this team. Thank you, Elsie.

I appreciate you jumping in and putting a pin in this, but we will continue to follow it and We're going to take a quick break. We come back Dancing with the Stars. Cheryl Burke is going to join me. We have a lot to talk about. Welcome back to the most dramatic podcast ever. I'm Chris Harrison. She danced her way into our hearts for over seventeen years on Dancing with the Stars. But Cheryl Burke is so much more than just a star from that long running show on ABC.

And Cheryl joins me. Now, first of all, it's so good to see you again. It has been way too long, my friend. I know, I mean, how many years has it been? Well, actually I had to actually do research. It was half ass internet research where I went back. I'm like, when did dancing starts? Because I remember I remember vividly being in New York. We were shooting Bachelor Bacherette, and I remember one of the executives saying there's going to be the show where celebrities dance, and I was like,

what are you talking about? But that was like two thousand and five, right, Yeah, so I started season two, so that was back in two thousand and six. Yeah, so two thousand and six, so a good seventeen year. Now, because me and you did Uh, we didn't Miss USA together or something. Yeah, America, Miss America America. Yeah, you were a judge on Miss America as well. Out there in Vegas, our pasitive crossed many times. That is that's why we were in Vegas, and that's why we went

out that night and danced our butts off. And that's what that was when I was drinking. And we will get to all that as well. Hey, So Laura and I were just talking about this Vanderpump rules of fair in this scandal? Have you kept up with that? Do you watch it at all? Do you know about it? Honestly, I don't until I had a conversation with one of your producers last night, and then I listened to your

last episode, and so now I'm caught up. It's pretty bonkers. Yeah, actually, now that I actually know, maybe the gist of it, I mean, is it though? Yeah, I guess, I guess you're right. It's not that bonkers. Is just normal life. And when you put normal life on TV, it seems crazy because and that's what I really I didn't want

to talk to you about Vanderpump. I want to talk to you about our lives in your life, because you and I have both been through something very similar, and that is public relationships, public breakups, public divorces, public everything. And you know from this Vanderpump thing, you know, an affair is not the craziest thing. Affairs happened all the time, but when it's public, it's very difficult. And you went through this, yeah, but you're you know, yes and not.

But but we sign up for it in a way. I mean for me at least, being on Dancing with This or was still weird. Still hard to say, very hard because it's only been a few months really, but yes, when I was on Dancing with the Stars, it is not necessarily I don't like think that's a reality show like Vanderpump for example, because it's more of like the art form, right, Like my job is to up as a teacher, is just to get this person or celebrity how to dance, right. So it's like they're we don't

they're not looking for that type of stuff. But yes, with the tension and being on primetime television for so many years, it's bound to happen for sure. Well, especially you know someone like you who was on so long, several of you, there was like a small group of you, I would say that became celebrities, and you were bigger than the celebrities on Dancing with the Stars, so that I don't know where you draw that line or if it's case by case of Okay, how much do I

deserve to know about Cheryl Burke? Well, I mean I don't know. I mean as a as a viewer, you mean, yeah, Well, I just mean, you know you're on this show, and you're right, it's it's not a docu reality follow series.

It was a dancing show. Yet you know, you you became public fodder and consumption and people wanted to know and obviously one begets the other, and that means we love you and we wanted to know, right, I mean, if nobody cared about you, then no one would care about your relationship either, So that popularity came with a price for you. Yeah, I mean it all started like for me, I think you know, I never signed up

to be famous. I guess it was the case for me back in two thousand and six and still is. Like I came here purely for the art form of dance, and I just happened to be at the right place at the right time, and in the right situation, right, So I didn't come here to like I didn't even ask to audition, like they auditioned me. And I didn't even know if I could even do it. To be quite honest, I was like twenty twenty one. I just had twined professional, didn't know if I could teach anyway.

And then I danced with Drew Lache And this was at the height of Nick Lache and Jessica Simpson's divorce, and so I again just fell into this and I never I mean, I had so much anxiety. I think that's when my anxiety really and that's really Yeah, the booze helped during that time, supposedly, but probably not. Yeah. Then game addiction and trying to cover up the Vanderpute rules thing though was interesting because of the affair and how public and how tawdry it was. Have you ever

been cheated on? Absolutely? Yeah, I said, you know, Lauren, and I said on our podcast, if it's not one hundred percent, it's ninety nine, I mean, or you're just completely not wanting to know, right the great point, Yeah, you're just completely in denial. But being cheated on is something that it is a wound that that cuts you deep because it's a different kind of betrayal and this involved a friend as well. But um, that takes it

to another level, doesn't it. I mean, look, I know you're kind of not defending her, but yeah, she's young, but she ain't that young. You're right, You're right. It's not like she's nineteen, you know what I mean, Like, she's almost thirty years old. So like, look, at the end of the day, you either have morals and values that you follow or you don't, you know, and regardless whether you're a narcissist or not, or whatever happened, you

just have to take accountability over what happened. Because with accountability, I find that forgiveness can happen, but not if you just continue to not hold yourself accountable or blame. That is the hard part. It's like, you know, I think with any relationship I was in when there was infidelity involved, if that person could have just come to the plate, there would have been there could have been a solution,

you know. And that takes me to your relationship because you just went through a very public you just want to through a very public Everyone thinks I've only dated one person, but nope, there's a bunch of people I've dated, not but not like that, you know what I mean. Actually, I'm one of those people that know that you have dated other people. Thank you, thank you. But you've been married. You were married with you know, to Matthew Lawrence and got divorced. It was a very public divorce and if

something you guys kind of kept quiet. But he's now gone on his podcast and has been very vocal about how the relationship tested him and how quote, I ended up getting involved with people that I was trying to please and it never fricking works. And no, do you agree with him? There was another thing that he said. I thought it was very interesting. You can love someone to death and you can be in a toxic relationship and it can spiral out of control and ruin both

of your lives. Obviously referring to your relationship, was it did you think this was a toxic relationship? Look, I mean out of etiquette, Like I like to speak for myself only because I am not going to speak for other people. But look, again, it goes back to accountability. It's like, if that's what it was for him, that's fine, but that doesn't mean it was like that for me in any scenario. Now, as far as toxic, absolutely, there were moments of it, absolutely, but like the whole pleasing.

By the way, this is the first time I'm hearing these quotes. I haven't googled myself recently. I've decided to stop doing that actually, But you know, it's interesting because it's all a choice. Life is a choice, Yeah, and you could either choose to people please, but that has nothing to do with the other person, you know. I think that no matter what, honesty and transparency and accountability will always get you further, no matter what. You haven't

googled yourself. But now that he has this podcast, he's been speaking out and well, it's here's the thing. When the average Joe or Jane goes through a divorce, goes through a breakup, especially when there's no kids involved, you go, you go your separate ways. You're not going to hear about it. You're not going to see headlines. You know, Matthew's continuing to make headlines because he's speaking about it

on his podcast. And so is that a kind of different level of just toughness and just difficulty of already handling a situation that's hard emotionally, I mean, which you don't know. It doesn't hurt you, hence the not googling myself good point and you saying this. Normally I'd be like, oh, look he did good. More like I really, look, I have a lot on my plate. This has been a huge year of transitioning for me, and the biggest break up for me was with the show, to be quite honest,

and that that continues for me to have. I have a heavy heart. You know, it's really sad because I feel like that marriage was definitely a longer one, yeah, and more intimate, and it was because I grew up on that show. So look, it is what it is. He's going to say what he says, and you know, I wish him well, I really do wish him well. He's uh, I don't I assume you know he's dating TLC sing or Chili. I'm a huge fan, by the way,

you're a TLC fan? Really? Oh my god. I had it on my like six disc spinner at back in the nineties. Remember those Absolutely you knew you were rich when you had the five disc changer in your car. My parents, that's for sure. Yeah exactly. Um so, yeah, so's he's dating Chili now and that relationship he's been gushing quite a bit about. And he spoke about wanting to have kids and and playing you know that that's the plan as soon as possible. Is that something you

guys were never into? Did you ever approach that subject? Are you surprised by that? No, I'm not surprised at all. Like he comes from a huge family, and I think that, you know, especially his mom. Like, there were definitely, you know, conversations, but I always had said, you know, as long as I have to shove my body in a dance costume, me getting or thinking about being pegged out probably isn't something I can talk about at the moment. But yes,

there were discussions of like possibly freezing my eggs. But then you know, I also you know, and I'm working through it, but I don't plan on suffering from body dysmorphia in my whole life. But like, yes, with dance in general, yeah, you know that that comes into play. And then being outed years ago for being too bad for TV, you know, so it's like there's all of this trauma and I hope, I really truly hope he can actually you know, have a kid with with Chili.

I think that's amazing because I think he's wanted that. You know. Um, so at least you would still go to the TLC or reunion concerts. No, I'm not going to a concert, but I was still sing along to the song no Scrubs. You know what I'm saying. Fair enough, that's that you know what we meet in the middle. That's fair enough. You know. I didn't want. I don't want to get too much into the divorce. But one thing I am very happy about. You got custody of Isabella,

your bulldog. And I make light of something that was pretty silly when you guys were actually battling over this. This was your dog. That was silly. Yeah, that was silly. But the fact that you actually got custody of your dog, I was really happy about that. Thank you. Yeah, that's a win win for me. You know, like this dog, I feel bad for her. She has just felt it all like you know, dogs can actually feel like my energy, like in general humans energy. Right, So, um, Isabella has

been my row. As crazy as that sounds, if you would have told me this ten years ago, that a dog, not a human being, would have been there for me more than an actually even being I would have been like, you're crazy. No, yes, it's a hell is actually therapeutic. It's called unconditional love, right, well, we all need that. And it's also called they don't talk back, right, that's maybe that's the definition of unconditional love, as they just

don't talk back. So you mentioned that you were what twenty one, twenty two years old when you started Dancing with the Stars. That was your longest relationship and it was you know, when you're in the arts, when you're doing a show like you and I both did, it is personal. It's something that it's a piece of your soul, and you did that. You know, from the time you're twenty one to the time you were thirty eight years old,

that is such a impactful time in your life. To go from your early twenties to almost forty years old. When you look back, like how much have you changed? Can you quantify what a different woman you are? First of all, you should hear my very first audition tape. I don't I didn't know what my favorite color was.

I had really zero identity whatsoever, coming from the competitive world, which is very much like a man's world, and the woman follows the man and it's like that in real life, unfortunately as well as some times, you know, And so I guess I never I was really quiet and shy, and I don't know if it's because of, you know, the abuse I suffered from as a child or what it was. But regardless, dance was always my way to move. Movement in my body was my way to express myself,

not through words. So when I did this audition, they came to Harlem, where I was living at the time, and they asked me to spin do a dance move. This is when my hair was really sure that yeah, yeah, I only looked good in movement. So I just continued to move and I was like, my name is Cheryl Burke, and I like, name one thing about you, and I'm like, and I'm a tiger on the dance so crazy, And my voice was so high. I sounded like a little mouse.

I had a partial English accent. Don't know why. I think because my dance coach was English and coming here. Long story short, it has helped. I have to give credit to dancing. It's kind of like they throw you in the pool of sharks. You gotta do interviews. You got to speak for yourself. You got to speak up. Also, I had just turned pro, so I didn't have a lot of teaching experience under my belt, so it was

really a huge challenge. But it made me grow up as an individual and as an independent person instead of living in someone else's shadow quickly. And I'm so grateful for the show for that, you know, So you'd look back and fondly remember your time, there a lot to

you totally listen. Of course, there are little things, like any relationship, there's always going to be this, but the bigger picture that I will never forget and be grateful for the show being a part of my life for such a long time, Like it really has helped like make me the woman I am today, I guess, you know. Yeah, no, I mean by the way, I said the same thing about The Bachelor. You know, I didn't want it to

end the way it did. But still I can't help but be grateful because it was such a part of my adult life. And I was a little older when I started, but went through about the same time frame as you. And so yeah, it's you can't spend that much time on something. How do you feel after all of that? What was your initial reaction. I guess, like, how long did it hurt for? I guess, well, that goes There's a lot of layers to that, much like

your divorce. But it was, you know, in the beginning, there was the shock because it was a band aid being ripped off. It wasn't something maybe like you did, where you thought about this for quite some time and you're like, you know what, dancing and this is taking a toll on me and my life and it's time to step away. While I had thought about that, I hadn't put those wheels in motion yet. So for it to all happen so quickly in a tumultuous way, it

was a lot. It was a lot to handle, which is why I kind of stepped away from everything and didn't do a podcast and didn't do any interviews, did nothing, just just got healthy. As you know. How long was that process About a year and a half. I mean, away, I could have come back sooner, but honestly, I started enjoying it. I started really enjoying my life again. And have you gotten to that point yet? I mean, obviously you said stepping away from dancing was maybe the toughest

decision of your life. Have you come to terms with it? And do you feel good about it? You know, yes, it's very empowering, but it's also sad, you know, like I can't help. But you know, it doesn't not cross my mind that oh maybe I should have just stuck it out another five Like physically I could have done it, Chris, But mentally, you know, it's like I am on such I'm on a path right now, or I am so into my mental health and I'm really into sharing my resources.

Right I'm no professional, but I can share my experiences with people, and that to me that I can't explain the feeling when I can actually affect somebody else's life in a way other than me barking at them telling them to do a Shacha lockstep, you know like that. You know, it's it's so it fills me up. It's hard to explain, but you probably understand. And anyone listening right now, you know, like any relationship, and it's like I just knew that, you know, either it was going

to be my call or it was gonna be theirs. Right, So it's like this was just the time, it was time. I'm thirty eight, I've done twenty six seasons. Yeah, what else can I What else do I need to prove? Like, I don't know what else to do other than like I've already proved it from the first two seasons if you were to look at it like from the material side of things. However, you know, it's like it's time to move on, Like I want to be able to

challenge myself. I hate feeling stagnant with whatever I do. I hate it that two great points. First of all, it's very rare that an athlete and I do consider you guys athletes, and you are competing at the highest level of what you do, and so to go out on top is a hard thing to do because, like you said, you absolutely could have milked it, and you could have made it through another five years on your popularity, But would you have been your best? Would it have

been the Cheryl Burke we all knew and loved. And to have the self awareness to say no and to step away, that says a lot about you. It takes a lot. Oh. You know, the last time I felt like this was moving from Harlem to the Los Angeles. So I know that there is a good there is you know, the path is greener, but I just have

to I have to be patient. I'm very impatient. Yeah, but I definitely need to just like and also, by the way, I need to stop defining myself by my outside sources, Like I need to stop thinking that my job is who Cheryl Burke is or my friends. You know. It's like, I'm really trying to do that work and it's not easy. Well, it's not easy. When you are so popular and you're on, you know, a huge hit show and you are famous for that, it's easy to get wrapped up in that identity that you are Cheryl

Burke from Dancing with the Stars. Oh my god. People still people are like, you made the worst mistake ever. And I'm like, that's why I don't sprowl on freaking social media. Yeah, one thing I've I have not heard you speak of. And now that you're gone, maybe you can be brutally honest about this. Okay. I'm like, Okay, Tom bergier on, I love him, I do too. End and a wonderful host. How did the dynamic change and

what was different when they fired Tom and Aaron Andrews. Look, this is no dig at Tira, because I think Tyra is an amazing woman. But honestly, the heart of the show, it was gone. I can't even say it better than that, because you know, a lot of people don't know this, but Tom would like host mid season parties for us, and it was like casting crew, only we would have dress rehearsal. He'd come on Sundays during camera blocking and though he wasn't probably getting paid for it, like he

was still wanting to interact with everybody. I call him my dance dad, you know, and he was there from the beginning and he just made light of everything. And it was a smart casting decision on you know, whoever was the showrunner or whoever decided to book Tom, because Tom made Ballroom not so because it's so serious, right, like we take our freaking this is blood, sweat and tears,

like for what a nasty mirror ball trophy. But with Tom, it was like, okay, yeah, we can make light of everything, you know, and it's like it's actually he's so genuine and he's so authentic, and there was a comfort level like I don't know if I'm speaking more for the older demographic, but like at the end of the day, when you see it's like if you were to recast the cast of friends like you can't do it. Yeah. Well, and to your point, I think what he did brilliantly

was walk that line. Yes, he threw in the funny you know, jabs every now and then, but everything was out of love. And he also knew how to lean into the emotional moments when there were those, he paid he paid attention and he listened and and he's just a great host on that level. Altely, it wasn't about him, right well, and that's rule number one of hosting. It's

not about you. You are not the star. And that's something that's lost by a lot of host and and you know, obviously the ratings changed and you can see the numbers changed dramatically after he and Aaron left. We're not on maybec anymore right for that, So yeah, you can just look at the scoreboard. But I was just

curious from the inside. I mean that's what I felt as a host on a show across the network from him, and he and I had a very special relationship for a couple of reasons that we always just got along really well. We're very different, very highly of you. He's fond of you very much. Well, he's and I'm really

glad to hear that. We from our early days. He was one of the first that kind of reached out to me when I took over Miss America, which he had just hosted something that could have been an awkward moment he broke. He broke the ice and immediately was like, hey, man, congratulations, I'm happy for you. Let me know if there's anything I can do. There was another moment you probably don't know about. It was with your former partner Drew Lache.

Because of a medical thing that in his family, Bergeron was maybe not going to make it back to host the show for the first time ever. So they called me on a Sunday and said, hey, Harrison, can you come in. We just need you to be on standby. You might be hosting Dancing with the Stars tomorrow night if his father died passed away, right he was. It was during he was had to do with one of his kids or something like that, and he ended up

making it in. But I went to the table read and I was ready to go, and just ever since then, we just had this and they asked me to keep that quiet and never tell that story while he was still going, and so we never spoke of it, but he just we always had that kind of mutual respect for each other. He also told me about the Emmy's. Was it the Emmy's when all the hosts of primetime? Oh my god, that was hysterical. He actually, he forget to tell me, so I just let him tell me again.

But like, yeah, it's so funny that that moment was great. Yeah, there was one year when all the reality show hosts hosted the Emmy's and it was he was pretty critically panned. He didn't go great. He's still traumatizing. Yeah, but thanks for opening up about that. I was just curious what the thought was because, again, a little selfish as the host, I noticed these things and it was a it was a big change at the time, and I think it I think if he ever talked about it too, it

hurt him to have that taken away. Chris. Yes, it's like, look, this show is so special, the relationships you make, the lifelong friends you make. There's some seasons that are the camaraderies a lot better than others. There's also some showrunners

that are better than others. To be just blunt right the end of the day, that is where it's coming from right, like if they're there, you have to in any business, you have to develop a personal relationship with these people or else there you're seeing how cold it is at times, and then you're seeing how warm and how we love to hang out with each other. It's about the environment we work in and a lot of that has to do with the people that you know.

To the executive, it is funny you think though you are on the inside and you're there on the daily and you're like, how can they not see it? Like this seems so obvious to me that this works, This doesn't How are we how are we messing this up? But they do, and I they look, they want to come in, they want to put their fingerprint on it. I get it. You know it's and it's ego. It's all ego. And then it's selfish, like when when we first started this show, we were like no one cared

if you hung out with producer. We were we were like parting in the green room on the floor, like smoking cigarettes, like trashing it. And it's like when we did the very first Dancing with the Stars tour, it was insanity. The popularity of this show right, and how we got treated like rock stars, and then it becomes normal, the new normal. Yeah, then it becomes a machine, and then it becomes numbers, numbers, numbers, numbers that you're forgetting about.

First of all, what the show was, which was a ballroom show. Let's stick, let's just start there. You know, like the dancing has changed, but it's about It's about the humanity of it though, and you know, it was never about the day. So that's the reason why ballroom works. It's not a so you think you can dance like, we're not gonna be doing hip hop with our partner because there's no communication through the body. Ballroom works because of the fact that two people have to work together,

not side by side. Yeah, it was a story. It was a relationship. And watching that and speaking of relationships, you are single now and this takes me very much. No, I'm not dating, Chris, I'm not dating. Well, this takes me back to a rumor when you and I were in Las Vegas and we talked at length about this about you being the bachelorette. Yeah, do you remember that? So freaking Lily, I even went into that meeting with

I forgot to snake Michael. So you did you had meetings about being the Bachelorette and talking about Juby Kennell talked about it. I'm Jimmy kim Alive. I'll never forget it. So that was real, that was legit. Yeah, I don't know why why the hell didn't work, especially when during my drinking days I would have been great. Yeah, you would have been. After the few days I spent with you in Vegas. I think maybe I said, that's not the best idea for her right now. Yeah, probably not.

It's probably a blessing in disguise, So thank you, that's what really happened. But you are single and you are not dating. Well, I'm dating myself, which is a great thing for the moment because I don't think I've ever actually enjoyed my own company. So this is I am not even interested at the moment still, and I know that I had a podcast with iHeart about it. No wonder it probably didn't work because I'm just genuinely not

into it at the moment. I'm really not. So you're not open to if you bumped into somebody at a coffee shop or and they said, hey, yes, but I'm not so desperate to get on a dating app like, you know, if that happened, so be it. But that would mean I'd have to leave this house, right, So

I don't like leaving this house. But if I knew a great fine mister Joe Schmo and this closet unfortunately, but if I knew a great guy and I send him your way, just saying there's a chance, yeah, I might have to do some get it like a background check and all that person. Of course, would you get married again? Absolutely, I love it, So that's that's in

the cards. Yeah, I mean kids, I don't know, I don't I don't mind even contemplating like that option of adopting, like I've always I never thought that even as a little girl, and never was a huge like I want twelve kids and coming out of me naturally like I'm not really I don't need that, you know. For me, a kid is a kid, like whether you're adopted or not,

Like there's so much love regardless. It seems like you're in a really healthy place right now though, if you're able to even talk about, Yeah, marriage is a thing, and maybe I do want kids down the road and I want that life. And now without dancing with the stars, you're able to work on that now. Well yeah, but I'm also not retired from work like I'm a workaholic, as everyone knows. How do you spend your days? What are you doing? I am honestly shooting so much social

media content. Just call me an influencer. Okay forgetting the last twenty something seasons of Dancing with the starts, I'm starting over from scratch. Then, now you're efficiently Now you officially are a Bachelorette contestant. You're just an influencer, right. I mean I was gonna say, if there's a Bachelorette sober version, I just don't think it would work without the alcohol unfortunately. So but you know what show I'm really into is Love Is Blind. I think they should

do a celebrity version. I think that would be fascinating. We can make that work. You mentioned your sobriety. How long have you been sobered? I know you have. It's fallen off the wagon and we've broken it, but you are back. How long have you been sober? Now? Almost five years? Congratulations? Thank you, that's awesome. I love that for you, and I know if I could get through this whole like year not taking a sip I feel pretty confident in myself. Thank you. I was going to

ask if that has been a struggle. Oh my god, every day, Chris, every day. Yeah, No, it's something so many addict will tell you that every single day, Like whether it just comes out of you know, nowhere, or if it's because of what you're going through. But like, this is why it's so vital for me to really just date myself, because if I'm not conscious, I could be on a date and like you know, depending on

my mood and someone's offering me and drink. I'm like, yeah, whatever, you know, No, I get it, and I mean I've I've been intimately surrounded by that in my life. So I understand that every day you are making that choice. And I'm so proud of you for that because I know when you go through tumultuous times, like you said, it's easy, it's so easy to slip. Yeah, it really is.

And I do remember, you know, and not to kind of bring up an old wound, but as much as I loved and adored you and you were such a good friend back in the day, I remember being in Vegas and those were dark times. It's like you would go from zero to a thousand, it's like, oh, here's Cheryl, and then it's like, oh, this is the girl I

don't recognize and it would happen quickly. Yeah, And I think I also was a functioning drunk, so it was like that was That's the scariest, you know, was when people when you're not drinking, people are like are you okay? Because I'm not as like social or you know, it is it's a different type of I guess scary when

you're an addict. Because I also, if you were to look on paper, maybe I'm the most successful of saying this when I did Red Table talk, like maybe I was the most successful when I was drinking, which is my rock bottom, you guys, because like a rock bottom doesn't necessarily mean being found in a you know, alley

way and then being you know, heading to rehab. Like, no, this is a rock bottom for me as well, because you're like, well, then my lazy brain, which sometimes happens, it'll like go in there, my unconscious brain will be like, oh, you know what, if you were the most successful, then you might as well start drinking again. You pulled it off, you can do it again, right, right? Was there ever a time that you were drinking, drunk or on anything

while you were working on Dancing with the Stars. I was always um, well, I used Dancing with the Stars like a sauna, so it was like I drank hardcore, then I would sweat it out. My partners would guess what I was drinking the night before, then I would do it again. This is the reason why I'm no joke ging here aside, right, but like seven days a week I was out And this was before Uber. That

was scary. Yeah. Well, by the grace of God, you are here, yes, and you're thriving, and you're in such a good place, and I'm just happy to see the way you're you're thriving right now and you're growing. You've always been amazing person, but I'm glad to see you figuring that out now. Thank you and congratulations on this podcast. This is amazing. It's been awesome. It's been really fun.

It has been a great platform to have to kind of speak in this way and then to rekind of connect with some of my friends and bring some of these personal stories out. Like you, It's like it's not just Cheryl Burke from dancing. This is a woman I've known for quite some time. Our paths of cross and intertwine many times totally. And I hope to actually hang out behind the camera because I would love to ask you some more questions about how you're handling this transition

of yours. It's really must be really challenging at times, you know it has been. And someday, thank you, by the way for saying that, And someday I'll be teaching a master class on this. Yes, yeah, please, thank you, Cheryl. I appreciate the time and the insight, and I will talk to you and my friend bye. And that was Cheryl Burke, an interesting person that I have watched intimately since she began her journey on Dance with the Stars.

Because our shows were so intertwined, we went to visit and be on Dancing Obviously a lot of people from The Bachelor Bachette were on there, and so we saw

them all the time. And then there were ABC events and they would always put the Reality people together, and so we got to know, you know, Maxim and the Huffs and Cheryl, and we spent a lot of time with these people, and so you to know the struggles that she went through on so many levels and to see how she's come out on the other side successfully is a miracle but also wonderful. So my thanks to Cheryl Burke and my thanks to you for listening once

again on the Most Dramatic Podcast Ever. And I will talk to you next time because we have a lot more to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the Most Dramatic Pod Ever and make sure to write us a review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you next time.