The Hero's journey — Margaret Malewski

Two men exploring what it really means to build, lead, and live fully. We challenge assumptions, shape comfortable thinking. And sometimes open doors you did not want to enter. Because the world needs more people who are willing to turn bold visions into living reality. And maybe. Start movements bigger than themselves. If that moves something in you, keep walking with us. Welcome to the Morning Edge. Good morning, everyone. Good morning, Henrik. And good morning, Margaret.

that it's not just us, but the whole world needs to hear that. So how we see you, Maggie? For me you are A three hero a true hero. Or we've been playing around with this a true heroin. This word is a little bit catchy, but yes, I think we all get it. Because what you've been through, not just in this story, but in your whole life, is it something so extraordinary that you should be in books? People should write about you. Биказ за пово And the mindfulness and the mindset you're carrying.

how to achieve something you have on your list and you have as a goal It's it's unbelievably strong and powerful. So this is how I see you. And this is why we would love to know more

And then I and then I realized that you didn't see how strong you were, just to some extent. That you know, you you crushed so many problems, you pushed through so many resistances and Eventually you made it out in a in a victorious way. Uh and there's a twist to the story which we're not gonna give away. So yeah, stay stay tuned for that. But I'm really I I I is I think you are a true role model for for grit, for perseverance, for innovation, for being a leader.

And balancing all kinds of different aspects that you have to do when you when you head up a startup.

And this was a remarkable achievement and he was a great innovator in the space of freediving. Um, one of the things that happens when you're at depth, um, to get to that depth on that single breath, you're in a streamline, so your whole body is in one line and you are undulating. You're sort of undulating your body to fin down to the depth and at some point the the natural um gravity uh you know starts pulling you down so you become motionless in the streamline.

Uh it's very dark, it's very cold. At some point your body experiences narcosis, so you get disoriented. And you have no idea where you are. So he sa he started innovating to solve for some of those problems. One thing he created were fluid goggles. They were liquid filled uh swim goggles with lenses installed so that you can see at depth and that the pressure doesn't crush your eyes. If you have air filled goggles your your eyes would get imploded at that depth.

Um just to give you a sense, your heart, which is, you know, large at surface level, becomes the size of an apple when you're at depth. It gets that compressed. Um, and the other problem you have is you have no idea how do how deep you are. And if you're wearing what used to be the m main kind of dive computer um on your wrist with an L C D display that has, you know, black letters on a gray uh silver background.

Um when your arms are extended above your head, not only can you not press a button to turn the backlight on, you can't read it. So he was struggling with these two problems of of seeing, so he invented goggles. and of having a reg uh an accurate depth meter. And so he invented a product called the F one, which was a dive computer with an OLED display.

Now I should contextualize that in those days nobody had ever heard of OLED displays. Very few products were using them, and certainly not a home designed computer uh that went underwater. The advantage of the OLED is it's light emitting, and so you don't have to press a button to activate the light. So and also it has a configurable screen. You can make the letters any shape and size you want.

So he was able to design a device that gave him a depth reading and a time reading that was readable while his hands were extended above his head. So at that time I met this this man who invented this product and was thinking about how to commercialize it. So I completed my MBA in July 2007. Um I used his um

initial freediving product as a case study during my MBA to create a new business plan. We discovered that freedivers generally don't have much equipment and generally don't have much money. So they're not a good market. But we realize that scuba divers uh do invest in their equipment in a in in a really interesting uh market to cur commercialize our product at where we could really rev revolutionize the state of the art.

So I made a business plan during my MBA to uh create the company that became Liquivision. Um, and the company launched in 2007. So I'll pause there and let you. Comment, interject, as you wish.

Building, right? It it's it's very varied, so I love that. But I also knew I didn't want to be an architect on graduation. Um then I worked for Procter and Gamble and Marketing in the Middle East. And I manage brands such as Head and Shoulders and Pantine. Um, eventually I left that role and wrote a book called Gen Expat about my experiences uh living internationally and as a guide for young professionals who wanted to make an international career.

Um and I started teaching at the University of British Columbia, intercultural communication for mostly Asian students who were coming to study in North America. and uh consulting with expats based on my book. So that's what I had done prior to this and then I did my MBA and uh co founded Liquivis.

So we we created this product, and it was extremely technically challenging. So What you're facing with a dive computer is basically electronics underwater. Electronics don't like to go underwater and so one of the things about the previous types of dive computers is they very frequently failed. Uh one of the reasons they failed is water would get into the dive computer at depth and damage the electronics and that would be the end of that.

So we had a lot of different design parameters for the product that we had to meet. Right? One is we didn't want to have any moving parts. Moving parts. Can rust, can break, can leak. And so one of the innovations that Eric brought to the computer was Uh tap navigation. We had an accelerometer in the product. So if you tapped on the casing, tapped downwards, uh tapp sideways, you could move a cursor down and you could select enter effectively.

Um and again you have to realize that this is, you know, two thousand four, two thousand five, two thousand six, this is b before the iPhone, before any of these things were common or known or obvious. Um The other thing we did was the product was completely potted. So rather than have a thick casing with a very strong seal and electronics inside, which was one design choice that Tech Dive computers

uh were making. We made our product extremely small, and that came out of its pedigree as a free diving computer. It had to be compact to not damage the streamline. So we put our electronics in gel, in a potting gel, and That was actually the secret sauce that we never patented of how we made our computers. Because

This gel had to have certain characteristics. It had to be soft enough that it wouldn't rip the co uh the components off the board. Um, but it also had to not change based on pressure and temperature. so that it wouldn't damage what was inside. So figuring out the right gel was crucial and many of the early product failures in our design process.

were due to the fact that we did get the gel right and so our displays would develop lines, right? You'd have lines of missing pixels because there was pressure on the the connector between the display and the circuit board. So there's a lot of real difficult technical challenges we had to solve. to make this device reliable and functional at 300 meters depth in adverse conditions.

The other part was the software, because we realized that we are the first company to have uh a Q computer grade, a desktop grade processor in our product. So if you're a scuba diver, you need to decompress, right? When you go down to depth, your body absorbs oxygen that's very compressed. If you were to go up to the surface right away, your body would explode as the ex the oxygen uh expands. So you have to ascend very slowly in a measured way, in a certain way, to off gas

The gas you took at depth and on gas slightly larger air bubbles and slowly you can ascend. Sometimes these ascents can be eight, nine, ten, twelve hours if you go to a hundred meters or more. You have to stage different gas tanks at different depths. And sometimes you use different gas mixes. You're not just breathing oxygen, you're b breathing uh nitrox or trimix. So our computer was the only one capable of

But it became inaccurate because if anything happened during your dive that took you one minute longer at depth, that can cause half an hour more of decompression, which you wouldn't have in your plan. So having a live calculation was a huge Safety factor, but also huge responsibility on our side to have the correct software.

what was unusual I s I had to create a team that was not just a team of managers, but also manufacturers. So one of the early lessons I learned is that It's very different type of interview process if you're hiring often non native speaker, uh often immigrant uh folks to work in your assembly team. than it is to build your you know custom customer facing management team. Um so building a team that could meet all the requirements of our business was an interesting challenge.

the side of the technical challenges of the business, but also from the human perspective. But who is the actually the buying market? And marketing approach

And be able to extract the essentials of what's going on and translate it to others, right? So one of the challenges I had was working between Eric, the technical guy, the hardware guy, and the sort of basic operating software guy and the the uh the crazy genius who designed the decompression uh software f desktop software who was brilliant but a difficult personality to work with and to get these two guys to talk to each other because

They were used to working in brilliance and in isolation. So often I would sit down with one and say, Okay, so this is what you're saying. All right. And then translate to the other guy and say, This is what you're saying. And now you guys need to talk to each other and moderate that conversation so they could come to actionable outcomes rather than just a a a technical geek conflict, right? So that was one axis. Um the other was, of course, we had to sell.

And I was a thirty one, two, three year old uh woman at the time. We would go to dive shows. and most of our buyers were technical divers. So think of SWAT teams, think think of Navy SEALs, uh think of rescue divers. Generally these were, you know, uh beefy middle aged guys with a very kind of bro culture, uh, some toughness to them. And they usually thought I was just the showgirl, right? They thought I was one of those hired models that people have at their booth to attract lies. Right? And

Uh, so they'd ignore me and go talk to other people. My co-founder was brilliant, but not very sociable, so he wasn't great to talk to them. So we ended up hiring uh a gentleman named Doug Marcou, who was a uh G U G U E diver, a tech diver, um, also had a police background, so he was able to talk the language of our customers to them. Um he was

You know, we we joke he could he could sell fridges to the Inuit, right? He he could s sell cancer. I'm sorry, the jokes you know, the level of the jokes is exactly like that of my audience. Um we we would used to say cancer is the answer, right? I mean He he could present anything and so He was in some ways our customer facing um interface, but his personality was diametrically opposite th to that of the two gentlemen I just named, and then our office manager

So that we could all deal with our difficult interpersonal dynamics sort of for the sake of the mission, right? That was where we had to come back to.

Well one day BASF that produced the gel that we were using, uh, came back to us and said, We're substituting a new product, new product number, same specs. We promise you it's the same product, just a different number. And it turned out to have completely different specs that didn't work on our in our product. And we had computers we had to sell to people that people had prepaid.

And we have to re qualify the whole thing and we don't even know what the problem is because the supplier is swearing that the specs are the same. Now what do you do? Right? So so so that would be an instance of Holy shit. Okay, let's go.

structural issues, right? There's customers who are waiting, right? So how do I communicate to them to change their expectations? There's the actual testing process, right? There's I need to devise some sort of a testing plan. To determine what's happened and I need to find some sort of alternatives, right? So there's some sort of process that needs to happen there. And what is that process? And then um there is the uncertainty, right? I don't know how long that will take. Um and then

Yeah. Uh what resources do I need? Who who who needs to be in the room? Well no, cash was not on the table. So th th the X factor in all of this is I started this with I dunno a hundred, hundred and fifty thousand dollars. So the big lesson I learned, one lesson I learned, was you do not start a computer company on a hundred thousand dollars of cash. Especially if you don't control your supply chain.

And and that's kinda why I asked you also how was it? Because It it's it it might take a toll on a person to to be in that uh combat mode.

This is where most leaders say, I need to replace the team because I cannot manage this as a leader. So I I just invite you to to look at back at yourself from this angle. How extraordinary was it and how how you managed all this?

you know, stressed about something, I would hold the fort down. So it's it's something that I developed or had early on, but developed, you know, through through practice. Um And so y you bringing that up now really lands deeply that that's something I do well. Um It also ha you know, as every diff gift it has a dark side. Um, because sometimes it lets me tolerate things I shouldn't, right? I I absorb conflict, I absorb uh challenge, I absorb

whatever's coming at me and find a solution and find a solution and find a solution. And sometimes that enables people not to find their own solutions, right? So it's always this interesting dance of every every superpower has its dark side. And reflecting how to stay on the right side of it, right? Where is it helpful? And where do I need to actually enable others to deal with their own stuff and not carry that? So that that's been some interesting reflection in the past few weeks.

So suddenly there's a challenge because we are married through the company and we still have a product to deliver and we still have customers to serve while going through this difficult period of realizing that we're not suited to each other. and how do we communicate to the team that the leadership of the company is going to be uninterrupted while we we navigate this and how do we also keep our lines of communication between the two of us open even as we separate and go do

uh different things. And the funny side of it was We only had one car and it was his car. So the day he moved out, I needed to buy a car. So I remember frantically going to buy a car in order to keep the ship afloat. So that was just a funny, funny aside. Um But it was that kind of thing, right? And so we sat down with the team and we said, Look

You know, there's a period where we we are figuring our things out where we didn't share this and at some point, you know, when we knew what was going to happen, we shared it with our team. We were very transparent. We said this is what's going on uh but this is this is our commitment to you and We're very grateful that everyone stayed on board. Um, but it was challenging because of course

All of a sudden I'm in a position of being the boss who's of someone who's highly creative, uh, works on a very different schedule and in a very different way than the nine to five. You know, he might be creative at two in the morning. um and explaining why he can operate on his own rules while everybody else has to come to work on time. Um and and sort of managing his behavior but not being seen as the evil of

evil ex wife, right? Th there's all sorts of interesting places where this dynamic was was challenging and and not easy. So so that was one one challenge.

And then the other was, at some point, uh, towards twenty twelve, I realized that As much as we are innovating in this space, as much as we are bringing to it, the diving market is a declining market. People don't take two week trips anymore, they don't buy that much equipment anymore. Um, we were in some ways over innovating for what the market could sustain. And so I didn't see a future for

myself and for Liquivision as we were in this business. So uh Eric and I decided we were going to try to sell the business and we started pitching it. Well, for two, three years we spoke to the top companies, to Sunto, to Oceanic, to Aqualong, to to all the greats in the dive world, and weren't getting any bites. Nothing was happening.

Um and s and I realize the first thing about M and A is it's not about you. You know, sometim one guy's wife died or got cancer and he couldn't do a deal right then, right? So but it was just unfortunate that he couldn't do a deal right then. Um So We we did this for a few years and finally um we we threw up our hands and said, you know, this is not going to work and then I made the decision that I needed to leave for for my own uh sanity. I needed to be able to move on from

my marriage, this relationship, this business, and all these things. But my assets guaranteed the loans of the company. So walking away would mean If I didn't do it in a intentional way, would mean I would be bankrupt. I would have to lose everything I owned to pay back the obligations of the company. So The first conversation I had with Eric was, look, I'm out. That's that's my decision. I'm I'm aware of the consequences and I'm prepared to face the consequences. Uh but that's where I am.

He said, Absolutely not. We're continuing. I'll find another CEO. I knew that was not in his personality or sort of skill set to find somebody, so that didn't go anywhere. And I prepared to wind down the company. So we pre-manufactured a bunch of products. Um, I was gonna lay off all the employees, cut our costs, sell the product. So make as much cash as I could and then Close the company down, sell the assets.

and try to preserve as much capital and refund our investors. We had venture funds invested, we had uh we had loans from banks, so I wanted to repay as many people as I could and and hopefully salvage Something for myself, not sell my house, my car, my everything. So we did this and then on december ninth.

It was a Monday, I was going to go in and fire everybody. And I asked Eric to be there and he said he was not going to be there. He said he was going to go to a holiday to Cabo Saint Luca. And old me would have said You must show up. And you me, who had sort of learned boundaries and agency a bit better, said Look, I would like to have you there, but if you're not able to be there, then go do your thing. I I'm not gonna hold it over you. I will respect your your agency. So I showed up

And I I'll be honest with you, the night before I was bawling my eyes out on the floor of my my apartment, right? This was not an easy time. Uh but I I told the staff, look, this is this is what's going on, this is why it's happening.

And um, you know, thank you for your service. It's n it's not your fault. I'll give you great references, I'll make sure you land well. But this is this is where it's at. So They left and um Eric went on vacation and during that vacation he designed a new product concept which he emailed to all the companies we had been talking to. And a week later we get an email saying, Hey, we want to come have dinner with you in Vancouver December 17th. Let's connect.

So we called our m our broker. He he joined us. We went to dinner all together. Um, then we didn't hear back. It was December thirtieth. For some reason I was celebrating New Year's Eve one day early and we had far too much alcohol that night. And the next morning on December thirty first I got a text message saying It was a picture of a signed letter of intent to buy the company with a number. Problem was, I had no employees. I had no company. All my cash was tied up in product.

And then on January 3rd, when I got home, I'm I'm I picked up the phone and called my employees one by one, and I said, Guys, it's time to come back to work. Are you are you willing to come back? And they all came back. Uh which was a miracle. And then I had to restart the whole company's engine again because as I said, the cash was all in the wrong places. So I couldn't buy more parts because the money was already in in built computers, but I needed to to to to restart. So that took

An insane amount of creativity while we were also going back and forth on the LOI. Um, and then we finally had a signed LOI at the end of January. Um and then due diligence started and so I had to bu build a whole D D room um which only I could do because only I had sort of the full picture of everything that needed to go there. So on top of the day job of reanimating the company I had to to prepare this.

And then we finally closed on on March fifth. I was to stay on for three months to to complete the handover. Um and then and then leave while Eric stayed on with the company to to execute this new idea he had come up with.

I don't know, a greater inner resource to not grasp things so close and to respect who I am and what who other people are and to kind of let Eric go. Um, it's hard to explain. But it it was that kind of trust and looseness and and acceptance of how things were. It wasn't a passive acceptance. I wasn't a passive bystander in all of this.

It was just like this is the nature e of each thing. This is my nature. This is his nature. This is who we are. And and we can't go against our nature. We need to work with our nature, right? And so it came from something like that. It's hard to put better words to it.

And I I also would like to invite everyone to look back. And what are the things in your life what you have done and you have accomplished which seemed average for you? But if you would ask other people, they would be amazed because for them it seems impossible.

it's helping me see this whole experience in a very different light, you know, as I as you guys brought it up for me recently, I realize I felt a ton of shame. related to the story, right? Because buried in the success there was the shame of having uh picked a different difficult co-founder to work with.

to have married my co founder, um, to have picked somebody who wasn't a good fit for me for what I wanted in life, for not having known what I wanted, right? And and many other layers of shame, but those are just some of them. And those feelings prevented me from owning the the parts I did right. I had so much shame around having made these mistakes that I couldn't say, Hey, well

I made wrong bad decisions and now now I'm making better ones and and it was actually a conversation with my husband um who's who's a management consultant and coach. He said look Everybody makes bad decisions. CEOs make bad decisions, right? People come in with wrong inputs all the time and it's what they do with it that matters. And so that helped me say, Oh Okay, I was thirty one. You know, I made a lot of right decisions, but I made a couple foundational wrong ones.

And and A I paid the price, B I learned from it, but C I managed to to to make something of it. And so I think I'm slowly starting to feel the pride of that, but it's not a given. It's not obvious.

it founding a company is difficult but should be joyous on some profound level and it's allowing me to access that and reclaim that. So I'm I'm very grateful to both of you guys for for