Seven notes. You're listening to the best of the Money Show. The Money Show. Welcome to the best Bits of the Money Show, your weekly digest of what we think are the most interesting, sometimes the funniest, sometimes the silliest parts of the Money Show, but easily the most important parts, the parts that you actually need to share with someone because they're going to have a direct bearing on their
on their life and maybe on your life. Maybe they'll explain something that's happening to you for you to send on a podcast of this of the Money Show to someone who you think needs to hear it. To start, some of the big news stories that piqued our interest from the week that was first, and perhaps most importantly, our unemployment rates still I'm afraid to say a disaster, the unemployment rate climbing point three percentage points in the second quarter to thirty three point two percent just I
mean just under a third. We should call it what it is, which is at least a third of people who want to work aren't able to find a jobs. Are exporters facing massive tariffs from the US, They're going to get a five year reprieve sort of under a government plan. It'll allow firms to work together against competition law,
to shoulder shipment costs, intelligence and infrastructure. Basically to try and make sure that our firms are able to stay competitive and but coin again approaching record territory as treasury
investors have boosted the crypto market. Tonight we bring you a mixture of stories from the world of money from the week that has been your shape shifter this week was doctor Nimrod and Baile, Managing director of the Knowledge Anchor Group, someone who has combined knowledge academia and business, a master's in public Policy, Development and administration, a PhD in corporate governance in state owned Enterprises from the Vitt
School of Governance. He's also had influential roles at the National Development Agency, the ReGenesis Business School where he's the head of Local Government, the Vitz Business School, and do you point holdings. It's a fascinating conversation and he does not hold back from some of his views about what's going on in our society.
It was quite remarkable, Stephen, as you currently pointed out, you know, everything changed at the time. We had new publical dis dispensation that was eminent. You know, we came from you know, richardly diverse education system. Uh you know, back then I used to be an a student, but I realized that the standards are completely different when I go to FITZ. You know, I had to adjust, you know, you know, in an a most atrocious way because the
gap was just too huge. Everything you know, us compete with clim teller cream private schools, you know, so it was it was. It was quite tough at the time, but you know, you stay focused and you don't forget the reason why you were there. You get support from you know, they visited a time, had a very good support system for especially back graduates, you know, because they understood the the the performance standard of the standards were completely different. So you just have to enroll and you
are vide yourself irrespective of how you know. Uncomfortable it was because it's a cultoll shock. You know, you did very well at some points and you realize that you are just beyond mediocre. Just need to literally pull yourself up in about bootstraps and focus on business at hand.
You came from the CAUSA, yep, and the courser itself, I mean recall was the sense of some terrible things. It was learning, Yeah, and that must have been quite tough. I mean, were you still living there and commuting where you on raised Vitzl somewhere in central Dubik, your family would still have been intercourse.
Of course, my family was still intercursa. But because of the social upheaval it was it was not pretty practical. I had to I stayed in Hillboro as a residence with friends even during the recess. I will not dare set foot at home because it was that volatile and and then that's how I survived.
It was not easy, but yeah, I am the community that you came from to get you to its when the government really did not help much at the time, that must have been quite something. I mean, where what kind of school were you at?
Well? I was in an ordinary public school called Londonloasi and we're phenamental teachers. Our principal was very supportive. His name was port Clatter, and he understood, you know, the the the the the makeup of black people. He understood the makeup of students. He was a white person, and back then we had quite a sizable cohort of white
teachers in the township. Uh and and most of them were after parents speaking, you know, teachers, uh and and and who were just there to offer their services in uplifting, you know, community uplifting the College of Education because they were relatively better off. Whether the best, I'm not shifted, were the best, but the wouldn't be better compared to the teachers that we had.
At the time.
I mean, you know, we didn't have the right mets teachers. We did write science teachers. You know, the schooling was disrupted from time to time. Literally you were lucky to go to school for the week because of those disruptions. But we stay focused. We had a very good support system and the rest is history.
As they say, you were studying politics in the early nineties, right, and I was.
I did.
I did just one course in politics. I shouldn't tell you this, but it was in nineteen ninety four, and I remember my poor lecturer having to make it up as she went along because everything was changing. Right, you must have been through the same thing. I mean, you never really knew. I mean, how would you describe the South African political system in nineteen ninety three, I mean, I have no idea.
Well, it was very interesting because you know, typically every black folk in the main we ever do law and arts, a very few back then we're in the faculty, like a commis engineering that type of stuff. I mean, growing up in a township, you know, politics was in you, was ingrained in your system. Social justice was part of
your gender. Transformation was part of your gender. So you obviously we were exupposed to Russian politics, European politics, colonialism and and that ideals on how you you you move away from uh colonials set up to a post colinial setup ily in South Afcan context. So it was quite
interesting from that end. But I soon realized that I wasn't kind of for politics in as much as I did very well academically, because I have a really good sense of debates, grasping you know, diversion views and and and altding my thoughts in a very convincing fashion, I would imagine, But I realized that politics was not my my, my my field because.
I maybe you're just too good a person.
No, I just don't have patience for full full Yeah, I just don't have patience for people who are not authentic. I don't have patients for people who who take out us for a ride. I have no patience for you know, spending time in million million less conversation where we're not going anywhere, you know, take a decision, step by it and let's let's let's move. That's I don't not just like to go into business.
You went into business. You also did some more education. I don't know if you felt you completed it with the doctorate or if you're still learning. I'm gonna come to that no moment. I was interested to see that you spend some time with the ReGenesis Group and you were the head of local government there, and I can't imagine how you feel, how you felt driving here tonight through the streets of Joe Burk And it's not just pottholes,
it's water, it's this, it's that. And having an academic and a deeper understanding of local government than almost everybody. I mean, that must be quite a sort of thing. Yeah.
Look, I mean the condition that deteriorated badly, you know, over time, because we failed as a system to pursue meritocracy in terms of appointments of leaders, in terms of providing sufficient incentives. We have allowed patternary system to take over. We have allowed a system that appreciates mediocrity and that appreciate underperformance. And it's very difficult.
We can't fix potholes, you.
Can't fit strict lights, we can't fix letter and these are not big ticket items. And I would often say, you know, the health of any environment started by cleanliness.
If at the moment you say later in municipal buildings, then you realize you've got a problem and you get to administrative issues like unqualified audits, you have disclaim us so reaches is back then ran a capacity building program that is meant to try and address those competencies for senior executive within many silities so that they are on a positive trajectory that adds value to the system which
they served. But unfortunately, as we all know that when you know FAED fed and fitted out to a point where you know every other municipalities is technically bankrupt and we've got audit findings that adverress and there's no consequences management. You know, AG from time to time brings a whole lot of reports which don't go anywhere because we just don't have a culture of accountability, and impunity has become part has been systematized because patronage has has literally you know,
like an albums around the neck. Maybe there's a there's a there's an end insight because political system has changed. Coalition has their own pros and cons. But on the positive side, we're seeing the middle of accountability picking up a little bit, which is positive. Which is positive.
I mean, I'd hope that there will be a lot more accountability because we were moving away from from you know, sort of predictable elections and and gosh, I don't see that. Well.
I mean, we we we get in there. I mean, it's gonna take time because unfortunately, we have to get to a point where we get the economy right. And the focus in any economy development is to get in the economy back on track. Let's fix our so e s which I have become liabilities. Once you sort of so is in terms of legislative frameworks, in terms of competent boards and clear mandates of those ass we were more likely to transition.
You know.
I'm sure you all know that we've got a National and Enterprises Bill which which which felt which failed, you know, to materialize purity because it just cut and paste in so many instances, there was not enough consultation around the the ideological posture of these entities which are meant to create value as opposed to being a drain. So I'm quite optimistic that we are moving towards the right direction.
I'm going to throw you into some controversy now, Okay, I don't know what your answer will be. You you pointed out that what happens in councils is patronage, and there's a massive debate going on in society again. It's happening now again for various reasons about black economic empowerment. There are some people who see bee and patronage and cadre deployment as three different words to describe the same thing,
and they are defenders of black economic empowerment sucking. Matclosomo was sitting in that chair a couple of months ago pointing out that without the it would be very hard to imagine black leaders in his position, or very hard to see the to see the economy transform. Where do you sit in that? I mean's be in patronage the same thing.
No, definitely not. Let's understand the principle behind black you're coming in pound first, it's about social justice, which which which invariably speaks about equity. We all understand where we come from as a as a p people. We needed to have a readdress mechanism, and he was perceived as or conceived as one of those interventions that could lay the political uh that could lay the economic landscape. The execution is different, but we must direct distinction between policy
design and implementation. The design is justifiable. The design had to happen. For every other country where there's been in the disconnect or inequalities, there have been some form of intervention by the state. How BEE was translated into into action, and how it was implemented. It's something that where we need to focus our energies on.
Professor William Goumydie. I'm sure you know him. I don't know if you've ever managed him. I don't know what he's like to manage. Always find him incredibly thoughtful in public. I suspects he likes an argument. I hope he does. He suggested, and I see that his his view is now quoted in The Economist where he said that bees probably cost us a trillion rand or so, and that
that's being divided by just one hundred. People have asked him about it informally, and I think I think there's a bit more nuanced to what he's saying, but that is a hard thing to justify, if that's if that's anyway close to true.
Look, I mean there's element of truth in the article that he that they wrote about. I mean, I do know him quite a crowd. Well, you know, he taught me at some point, and we've also shared numerous spaces where we discussed these kinds of issues. There's a elementum truth of truth in in his posture because we and
again we failed to implement the policy correctly. If you're going to deploy people who are not qualified, if you're going to ring fans, you know, strategic problems or strategic contracts to few elites who have no credibility, who have no history of delivery, who are not qualified, you you are going to spend a lot of money. These builders that is making reference to are going to be wasted
because you're, you know, not really filtering down wealth. You concentrating wealth through those that have those that have approximity to power in the main a c. Kidas who are still raking at big time with such importunity. But that doesn't mean it was ill conceived. Mind still know.
From doctor Nimrod and Verre speaking about his journey through leadership, governance and strategic development, but also sharing some of his views about our society. Seven notes the best of the Money Show from this week, How I Make My money? It was the most interesting conversation we've had in quite a while. Lisa Taylor is a color analyst. She's actually a color forecast, so she can tell you which colors are going to be moving a couple of years from now.
Really extraordinary. She was also part of the creation of the natural color system. Did you know that colors come with numbers? Did you know ten million colors exist, that women can see ten million of them, and men me myself and I we can only see seven million colors. Did you know that Lisa Taylor knows that she'll tell you how she's made money from it.
A lot of artists are said to have symthms here, there's a lot of musicians. The color and music is related as well. Music is chords and harmony, as is color measurement.
So you knew you had the sense? Yes, you, I presume had to go through school. I imagine your coloring in was a lot better than mine. What did you do?
I've never called in the alliance?
Oh really, that's interesting, definite adhd O So you know you have this. I don't know. Do you see it as a gift?
Sometimes? Most times I see it as a gift. Sometimes it's not so much because color is kind of overwhelming unless you learned to switch it off or filter it out.
So how do you, then, I'm sorry to how do you then develop an interest in it? I mean, do you study art? Do you do something else? Do you to start to make a living? Where do you go from school? Is what I'm asking.
Well, I went from school into architecture. I studied. I was the first intake of the Fitz Technicon b Tech course in architecture, which kind of gives my age away mentioning that's Technicon and b Tech and qualified my bursary.
I was the last person to get a burstuy with Anglo American and I worked in architecture, but I tended to job hop because as soon as I got I learned everything about hospital design or housing design, I would move on to the next practice, and in the eighties that wasn't such a good thing on your seat, So
every eighteen months, hopping from job to job. I then decided to go into marketing because I can talk a hind leg of a Donkey, worked for first or for Steel Company roofing, the major roofing people, and then onto Paint, which was awesome because I got to do color, color, color, color, color. And then I was headhunted by a granite company and spent another two year three years traveling the world with that.
But my first love was always coming back to me and I was hunting then the Internet, trying to find out about this ability of mind with color and synthonisia, which I didn't know at that time existed. And I came across the AARIC and in turn the CSR in Pretoria, being a member of the ARC. The ARC is the International Color Association. I went to the metrology laboratory. Boy, it's a difficult word to say, and it was like
two people coming together. Yeah, I was this metrologist who's this colour scientist and me semi architect Marketer, and we came together and we literally went and she said, oh, by the way, we want to make NCS and she touched the NCS atlas. We want to make this the national standard because the defense force, who holds the heraldry of the country. I don't with you know that that's the whole concept of defending the flag they own the Heraldry. They said, our new flag, the six colors, the only
flag in the world with so many different colors. It's very difficult to reproduce. So we want to make NCS the national standard. I in turn thought, ha an opportunity for business. I approached NCS. This was nineteen ninety seven and they for the next two years, I kept nagging them and nagging them, saying, please let me be your distributor,
and they refer to me as this mad woman from Africa. Eventually, nineteen ninety nine, the md came out to South Africa and him and I went around a lot of paint manufacturers and I started my business. And that's kind of yeah.
So basically what you were doing is you were categorizing colors, right.
So measuring measuring color.
Okay, so you get white off white cream. I mean, would those be examples of what to me might be white? But you are three different things.
No, what you get a six elementary colors white and black at the top and the bottom, and then the four elementary colors of yellow, red, blue, and green. And with those six elementary colors you can actually measure the ten million colors the human eye can see and give a value and communicate that across the world.
Can your eye and my eye despite the fact that I have no understanding of color, married to someone who's a deep understanding of color, and I do feel for her. But do our both of our eyes see the same number of colors, even though your brain clearly interacts with it very differently to mine.
We've researched, and yes, we have matched the ten million colors the human eye can see. We have researched in every human being sees color the same given normal color vision. But what the where the difference comes in is it goes when it goes to the central process of the brain. We don't have equal preference, so we react emotionally differently to the color. And that's the only difference. Why would we need color standards otherwise if we don't see color
the same. So when you buy, you as a man, will only see seven million colors and me, as the privileged woman, see ten million colors. We are better?
Really, why is that? Is that? Is that a rain difference or an eye difference?
It's it's to do with the central process of the brain. You as a man with a hunter, So you had to throw the sphere in the distance and knock off the antelope. And as the woman I was carrying gathering the berries and looking for the rape and what was poisoned and was what wasn't, So I had to come up with seeing differences in color, whereas you had to see in distance. And that's the only reason. But the woman carries the color defect g So we passed it on to our sons.
Sure I had no idea about about any of that. Okay, so waste money on me. Can I just want to go back a little bit. So so that ten million colors, I would imagine coming up with ten million names for colors might take a little while, So I presume we use it. We use numbering.
System for this numbering system only. So for instance, a red that I think your glasses are, that would be defined as S fifteen sixty red red twenty percent blue. So that gives a value. So that's fifteen percent blackness, sixty percent chromaticness, and it's red twenty percent blue.
Okay, you're going to have to explain blackness and chromaticness to me.
Now, Okay, blackness is the percentage of how much blackness is in the color and chromaticness is the resemblance to the four elementary colors of either yellow, red, blue, or green.
Okay, And when you see a color with your sort of sense of it, do you know what number it is? Or is that asking too much? I mean, that must be asking too much.
Normally, most people, even with training, would still need a standard, would still need an instrument, because we have spectrophotometers, we have color readers, and we have color atlases and standards. But I can, to a certain extent, I'd still have to check myself. It's impossible to have the value and the numbering system in your mind of ten million colors.
Yeah, no, I think I'd be sure.
But it's kind of difficult.
Why does color matter? And I'm really asking about the link that you made at the very beginning about emotion. So I've been into a house or a room I thought I don't quite like it here. I don't know why, And I've been into another room where it's the same physical size and felt a lot better. My wife has pointed out later it's because one was a dark shade of brown or something awful. I mean, color really does affect your mood? Is the point I'm making well.
Color is psychology because it's created in the psyche. Therefore is psychology. You can manipulate people just by having different colors on your walls. And that's why light is also so important. In the beginning of my business, I actually used to go home halfway through the day to change my outfit so that I would be reflecting where we were in the negotiations. So I'd start off with an orange and then go back to change into a green
suit so that I'm now formalizing the contract. It's that important. And I would also make sure that I talk to the MDS PA as I walk in and say, gosh, you know you've got all these beije walls around you. Do you suffer from a lot of migrains or headaches? And they go, oh, yes, goody, yeah, I really do. And my business card is a red card, and I say, just put this at high level in front interview and
what your headaches disappear. And then the next time I go, the receptionist or the PA comes rushing out and grass me and goes, oh my god, you're a miracle work. My headaches are gone. How do you do this? And drags me into everybody's office that I've been wanting to meet, because now I'm somebody that seems to know what they're talking about. I Meanwhile, all I've offered her is a little a focus on the beig walls that we have around us, and now obviously the popular grave, which is
also happening. There is lack of color, so they're not being stimulated.
About. You mentioned red, and we always know that red grabs your attention, but I sometimes feel I'm surrounded by so much red. As a result of that, I actually wonder if we can suffer from red exhaustion. Sometimes it just loses a absolutely.
We've done research which was presented at a conference in Thailand in twenty fourteen where the subjects were put in a red room and then asked when the thermometer was turned down when they felt cold, and then put it in a blue room and ask the same question. And in a red room they would say I'm warm, I'm warm, I'm fine, but I'm not entirely happy. In the blue room, they'd be freezing cold in a very short space of time.
So there's a big difference in perception. There's also a big difference in the way your heartreak goes up in a red room. Sure, you should never have read at a checkout counter because people will not buy the product. They will go away because stepping over and making a decision in a red room is not a good idea.
I mean you mentioned at designing hospitals. I would like to think someone who's designing a hospital where recovery in psychology of that is so important that someone's taking all of this into consideration.
Well, I have produced a whole paper on that that actually gives architect and hospital designers all the information on that. Did you know that orange is infect and pain reliever? People? If you put an orange board at the foot of a bit, people will ask for pain reliever a lot less than they do is surrounded with other colors.
Lisa Taylor. They're reflecting on their incredible journey as a color analyst and forecaster. Seven notes you'll listening to the Money Shows Best Bids Investment School this week. Vincent Anthony Raja, the CEO co founder a Differential Capital, looking at the real surge we've seen in global markets. Why are we seeing so many markets doing so well at the moment,
and particularly across our jas and in the US. He also looked at how long this upward momentum would last and how you manage your investments during this moment.
So look is I think we need each of them separately. Now, if I take the case of South Africa, I think we've had a really interesting mix of companies that have driven this performance. So if I take one of the biggest components of our index, which is the NASPUS Process Conglomerate and their underlying holding which is ten cent, arguably that was quite undervalued over the last two years and it's just continued to deliver very strong sets of results.
You know, despite the headlines about China, the revenue growth coming out of that one big component of our index is really really strong. And then also if you look at it still today, I mean if you look at their heart currency revenue growth, I mean it's in the teams, which is comparable to you know, the big tech company growth in the US. And when I say only, it's only on a price to earnings multiple over our eighteen
and some would argue it's got more to go. And then also if you look at our other two components that have driven the terms this year, your precious Metals, your platinum and gold. That's been a big driver, and it's somewhat linked to what's happening in the US. So just before I go to that, so the records on the JC aren't really a function of let's call it the South Africa ink story, which I think is probably going to play out, you know, in the near future.
But for what we're saying so far, it hasn't really been our South African stocks haven't driven that. Now if we look forward for South Africa, if a few things start to come right, you can imagine that this record high after record. I will continue then to briefly jump
to the to the US. Stephen. You know, if you look at it, the earnings growth of the top ten companies on the S and P five hundred continues to be strong, continues to be surprising, and it's the rerating on those companies, the market willing to pay more and more for those that's driving that continued performance. There are question marks, however, about the rest of the S and P five hundred, where you know, earnings growth and earnings
expectations seem to be stalling. So you know, there's some questions there.
Okay, I mean, I mean that there's a lot to unpack there. But in both cases it seems that it's just a small group of very large companies that are making this happen, as you say in the S and P and then here with Naspaz. So in other words, we should not mistake these records on the indices with the whole with what's happening with all of the companies.
It's really just a few setting the pace. And obviously to throw it to add to that, the sort of magnificence seven the text shares in the US are like largely responsible for what's happening there. So it is a in some ways is a right to say it's a function of a couple of very successful, very big companies and it's and it's not an indication of everything else.
Yeah.
Correct.
And at the same time, in the case of South Africa, you've had precious metals, which if you look at the gold stocks, I mean, we all know what's been happening there. There's geopolitical risks that have really wrapped up the demand for gold from central banks from others, and that's driven that sector. So yeah, I think we can we can say that it's not a broad based rarey. Really it is concentrated in a few names.
Okay, how interconnected then is the JAC with the US? Indice, so we don't rarely have a tech sector like the Nasdaq. Our tech sector kind of iss pats something unfair, but you know what I mean. But we do also see a level of interconnectedness in how they've done every day. Sometimes not all the time, but often the same thing will affect them. So, I mean, it's quite an impossible question to answer, but they're not one hundred percent interconnected.
The JAC doesn't follow the US and vice versa, but there is clearly a quite a strong level of interconnectedness. What I'm trying to get to is if the US stopped rising with the JC stopped rising, and like the obviously is answers sometimes yes and sometimes know.
This is the way outlook at it. Even is what the market is pricing in for Let's call it the large tech stocks that everybody and myself included believe is going to be driving a material change in human productivity. Right, it's the AI revolution, Internet technology, et cetera. Now, increased productivity means a number of things, but when you sort of unpack it, what it means is probably a wealthier US as a result of more profitable companies. But at the same time, and let me just focus on that
for a second. So more profits into the US, better demand for things, and that has a spillover effect into a lot of the countries that South Africa trades with, and that could eventually spill over to US. So, you know, when you think about what we export, beat food, beat the fact that more tourists will arrive in South Africa and a lot of the countries that we trade with, like you know, Europe and China, they benefit from a stronger US consumer, which is a consumer for the world.
But then let's also focus on these textocks. I mean, what are they going to consume, you know, as they as they grow. You know, as you use more and more AI, you use more electricity, you use more copper, more minerals, and things like that. So I think there's a more closer link to to South Africa and other commodity linked countries emerging markets in that if if the broader market, the global equity market is right about what's happening in the US, we could see some direct spill
over to demand for the commodities that we mine. Out of the ground and then there's an interesting pattern. And yeah at credit you know, some of the research I saw from investexs securities which sort of very interesting relationship between when South African resource resource stocks start to do really well and that's starting to happen, eventually that spills
over into the South African economy. So if we just think about platinum, which is a recent substantially, you know, eventually that should translate into to wealth in the platinum regions of our country. And then and then we could see that filter into the other South African stocks. I don't know if that makes sense to even so I see sort of two drivers from the US that could help with what happens in South Africa.
Okay, is it true? So the personal finance people will tell us and this sort of gets you into passive investing and come to that at the moment. We'll tell you that if you put money in the stock market for thirty years, it is going to grow. If you just did it over an index, it's going to grow. And the reason for that is that over time, people in societies get richer. So I was reminded when the jc all share crossed one hundred thousand for the first time that at one point it had actually just been
one hundred. Now what is driving that? And is that just because over time economies grow? Yes, there are some that drink Babwe is a good example, unfortunately even in Venezuela is a good example. But generally speaking, barring massive accidents and wars, economies always grow. And if that's the case, if it was not for artificial intelligence, would we always still be having a record high in the US just because it always grows and so does ours generally?
Sure? I mean, but let's unpack that for a little bit. I mean, you know, when you say if it wasn't for artificial intelligence, there's a reason why companies profits grow, and the reason why profit companies profits compound in general at a macro level is because throughout time, you know, humanity has found a way to become more and more productive, and the AI is just the latest innovation that we
have in that journey of increased productivity. So increased productivity purely means more profits, and that's really what drives let's call it overall valuations and returns because it translates to what dividends you can you can pay out and and so yes, that that is true that if you've got the broad ingredients for success at a macro level, and you would you would tend to see you know, productivity gains in that group of companies. But you just need
to be careful. I mean, the comments that you made about you know, Zimbabwe and the others, those are those are pertinent. But also if you look at you know, economies like China, you know, for a long time, you know that equity market has actually been a terrible investment.
So you go through periods in which that happens, you know, even for large economies, And which is why when you're sort of starting to look at the markets from that way, it just make sure that you're not taking any singular bets, you know.
M So, okay, if if companies tend to innovate and humans get better, why do some markets not really grow? I mean what's happened in China, And I realize that there are probably a million different reasons in each case will be quite different, whether it's you know, it just sometimes sometimes we all know, we just go through that phase in the economy.
Yeah, so in many cases is geopolitical real reasons and let's call it suboptimal policy decisions. But at the same time, at the heart of it, you know, growth in productivity that sometimes comes at the cost of other companies and other industries. So if you think about what's happened in the US, yes, there s and P five hundred is up at all time eyes, Well, I can tell you can find a couple of companies, they're not a couple of many actually whose entire industries have been obliterated by
the changes that have been coming through. And I think you also see that from countries to country. You know, if you take South Africa in the nineteen eighties, you know, gold mining stocks are much much, much bigger proportion of I Index, and then they went through a sort of decline and now they're sort of coming back. But that's what happens even when you look at a sectoral level.
If you take through South African banks as an example, the success of Cafitech has certainly come at the cost of the competitors, and I would say even more so for some of the insurance companies whose lunch has been taken up by them. So I think that's just just the nature of it. And so again again going back to my point, just be careful. You know, when you start making sweeping statements that you know markets tend to
go up. Just ensure that you're not concentrating yourself. In one singular investment.
Vincent Anthony Raja there speaking about the really interesting surgeon market highs across South Africa and the US, and some advice on how to invest in this moment you will listening to the money shows, Best Bids your business. Book review Bronwyn Williams as the trend translator and future finance specialist of Flux Trends. She is a regular book reviewer, but we spoke to her about her own book, so
we spoke to her this week. As an author. The title Survived the a I Apocalypse, a guide for Solutionists. She unpacked our Artificial Intelligence is reshaping reality from AI generated news Goodness Me to Virtual Partners and CEO Bronwyn Williams a fascinating conversation about a fascinating book.
Well, we can blame the publisher for the title. I don't know how many of your listeners. Note, when you do write a book, both its title and the cover are not exactly the author's final but the content within the book definitely art. So maybe maybe a little bit of the hyperbole has made it through to the cover, but I think the point does stend and our thesis well, I've co wrote this book with white woman called Sharon Piers, who is a business transformation specialist and has been for
many years. Is that for a lot of people, this whole thing of AI, combined with the forces of globalization, which really mean moving into a very very competitive space, all going to be outright traumatic and might feel a bit apocalyptic to many people who currently are in or trying to get back into the job market.
What do you mean by a solutionist? I mean, I think we all think that we're good at solving problems. I mean, I know for a fact we're all. I've worked in talk radio for a while. We're all pretty good at talking and complaining about our problems. How would you describe a solutionist? Is it someone who works towards a solution, someone who comes up with solutions.
Well, it's very simple. A solutionist to someone who sees a problem, identifies that problem, and then finds a way to solve that problem. I mean, you're really just talking about the good old thing of like how to start a business, be an entrepreneur, what do you do? You
find a problem, you solve that problem. But what we're trying to say in the book is that it's not just people who currently identify as entrepreneurs, but really everyone, whether you employed currently unemployed, whether you run a business,
whether you're part of a massive organization. Our thesis is everybody's got to see themselves as a solutionist because what's happening now with this apocalypse, to use the publisher's term, is that basically is a reckoning in terms of the value you are bringing to the economy and the price that you are charging. Those two figures have to be aligned, and quite frankly, they not aligned at the moment. There are many people who add a lot of value, solve
a lot of problems, who are necessarily being concentsated. And on the flip side, the people are really talking to you are people who think that they add a lot of value to the economy, but maybe really don't. They just take home quite a big paycheck or think they do quite a big paycheck at the moment, and we're basically telling people you need to actually be adding value to whoever is paying you, whether that is a customer, whether that is an employer, whether that is an organization
or individual. Somebody is your customer ultimately, and are you really adding value to that person or are you really just extracting value from an inefficient market. Because we certainly see that what's happening at the moment was digitization and ultimation and globalization, is that there's a lot of scrutinity on where the fact is sitting on the system and where there are people that are extracting distracting value. And
two things that are happening. The one is quite fair that people who are extracting value and not adding value to society, whether they are overpaid consultants or whether they are overpaid people sitting in HR departments, whatever the case is, they're going to be found out. This is what all
these forces are moving towards. But at the same time, the more unfair side of this, the darker side, we don't have a solution for, maybe someone listening does, is what's happening is that fact in the system is ending up being concentrated in the hands of quite a few or very few individual and individual companies. You know, this is a case of like wealth accumulating and the top not ten percents, not one percent, but sort of like point not one percent of the market, whether they like
you get organizations or individuals. So as much as automation is destroying a lot of bs, it's also going to create new waves of it. But for us, those of us who are part of the trading plasts who have to negotiate in order to justify our paycheck or our place in the market, the pressure is on, the competition is on, and we don't have to be able to articulate the value that we add and define the problems.
We are solving very very carefully. And the solution, as part of the book, is really a model that sharing is developed and I've helped to translate as that's what I do, basically a system as the harder people can check whether they are adding or not, and a few steps that they can take in order to start doing this.
So so I think there is a sense and I think your publishers using this, So there's a sense that literally it's the end of the world as we know it, And I'm supposed to feel fine, but I don't. And what I've seen, because I'm now old enough, is that people will say the world is going to change very quickly, and the world changes quickly and slowly at the same time.
And that's a strange thing. But I often notice that people say all of these jobs are going to be gone in ten years time, and actually you find some of those people are still doing very similar things. Well they're using the same skill to do something that's almost the same, but there's a different delivery system or something.
Yes, of course, that is part of it. That's where the sort of hyperboleum the whole AI and automation sort of conversation and a glocalization migration conversation, which is really part of a competition on landscape that we find ourselves in. It is a part of right. This is this idea that all our jobs are under threat and everything's going to change over night. That's not the case. What's really happening is the concentration, as I said, of value. So
for some people, things don't change. For a very few stick people, things change very very well in their favor. For the most of us, we're gonna have to work that a little bit faster, harder, run that little bit faster on the treadmill in order to justify our place
in the economic scheme of things. And this is the way it gets really really hard in that overall the whole things, the world's moving quite slowly, and all those like really scary numbers put up by the World Becoming Forum are hyperbole, They are nonsense, and they say all these jobs are going to disappear. But what is going to happen is these jobs are going to concentrate, and these jobs are going to change. The tasks you do
within your job is going to change. But also there's extra chairs being pulled out of the sort of the game of like ring a rosie that you're playing, or musical chairs that you're playing, which means that every time that's the music plays and every single cycle, you know, for the greater concentration as wealth, but a fewer seats at the table and seats the table. Very specifically, here have been job jobs, the salary output not so defined,
but income very defined, the arrangement of work. But many of us, particularly in South Africa, understand as being economically independent, try to so idear of having a job. But the truth is there's going to be less jobs, and the jobs that are there are going to be concentrating in
terms of where where those opportunities lie. So you see, for most of us, it's going to be a case of more precarious employment, and employment itself is going to shift, and we're going to have to justify our place in
the value chaits. That's part of the mindset shift we're trying to explain here, is thinking beyond being a finding a job and becoming a salary dependent worker in a corporation, towards how do I identify myself as kind of like this incorporated individual, which lot something many people want to
have trained economists. I know that most people would happily trade a bit of freedom for security, But what we're saying really is that security is being taken away from the majority of us, and we're going to have to learn how to swim and choppierwards face more uncertainty, which is something that of course I've said most of my career looking at uncertainty and features and all of this.
So hopefully the book gives people that are perspective on where the nonsense is or where the bs is, and where where the truth of the story is, which really is a personal reckoning of use. Joanny in front of the Mirra say what is the value I add to society honestly, not what is the work that I do? Not where am I busy? Not why am I tired? But actually, what is the value that I'm adding here? Britney, there's all of us have values to add.
That was Bronwan Williams giving you a look into the future shape by artificial intelligence. Her book. It's called Survive the AI Apocalypse, A Guide for Solutionists. I must tell you I didn't really like the apocalypse part, but I quite like the survive part of that type.
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