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The Money Show with Stephen Curtiz is brought to you by ABSUR CIB, proud sponsor of the UBSIR Africa Financial Markets Index twenty twenty five. And I'm starting tonight's show with the good news. Firstly, I'm Jane Uttonhallo. I'm in for Steven. South Africa's off the gray List, the global Naughty Corner for countries that don't do enough to stop money laundering and terror financing. It's about money credibility, whether the world still trusts US to play fair in global finance.
After nearly two years under extra scrutiny, the Financial Action Task Force has wrapped up its meetings in Paris and South Africa's being given the all clear. We'll unpack what this means for your money and the country's investment future. Then a small but powerful shift from ESCAM. The utility is quietly dropped its costly rooftop solar sign off rule
for homeowners. What does that mean for energy independence and your pocket After the markets, I'm going to be profiling Jonathan Ferree, the man behind bus Cuisine, Cape Town's new luxury dining experience on wheels, where fine food, meats, city lights and rolling views. It's all about money power and something to wet your appetite right here on seven oh two. Please give us a call w hear your thoughts on any of these topics. Oh one one double A three
oh seven oh two. You could speak our guests as well. You could tweet or x us on at radio seven o two or send us a WhatsApp on seven two seven o two one seven two and I'm also on at Jane Dutton The Money.
Show on seven OS Monday to Friday six to eight pm.
So South Africa is off the Financial Action Task Force gray list. For two years, we've been under the microscope. Its dented confidence and investment has been accused of weak enforcement, dodgy compliance and political interference. Now the FATF says we have cleaned up our act.
Joining me is.
National Treasuries Ismael Momoniat and Rebecca Thompson, Partner and head of Investigations, Compliance and Ethics from Baker McKenzie, to discuss what this move actually changes, what it actually means for you and me is well, let me start off with you. You put a lot of work into this. What is your response?
No, Look, clearly, south Etika. After state capture, you know, our institutions were weakened and we were gray listed. And let me say it to put the ironically of Baker McKenzie, because they were one of the companies that were directly involved with weakening institutions like Stars. But because of all of that, we were great listed. Quart of has found is that we've now managed if we begin to tackle financial grunts, and I would take companies like Bacon mckenzy
or so accountable for what happened during state capture. But going forward, and that may be clear, it doesn't mean we've solve all our problems. All it means is that we've begun to deal with our problems and we're going to have to continue to strengthen our institutions so that when the next mutual evaluation comes, which will be over the next two years, that we will not be gray
listed again. I mean this must be the point is that Jane, we must do this for our country, not for fat up, to make sure that we can rid our country of corruption, maximize delivery to our people and get economic growth, investment and economic growth up.
I mean from a reputational damage point of view, how bad has this been for us and how quickly can we get back on track.
Well, look, it's obviously been really bad for us from a reputational perspective. It's been quite humiliating for the country, and you know we've had to slog for over three years now to make sure that we deal with the concerns that.
All right, we seem to have lost him for the moment. We'll try and bring him back up. But on the line as well as Rebecca Thompson and Rebecca, I don't know if you were listening to him, but he was accusing your company of being one of the players that has brought some reputational damage onto the country and it should be held accountable.
What's your response to that?
So I wouldn't call onto this show to be a spokesperson for my firm. Quite frankly, I'm not sure what mister Monmonet is on about. We certainly haven't been accused of any thing, nor have we been hauled in front of inquiries such as the Step Capture Commission. We've certainly acted for clients in a whole range of matters. But perhaps mis Deemmonias and I can have a separate conversation on that. I honestly I'm not sure what he's on about.
Be that as it may. I'm here to speak about South Africa's exits from the gray List.
All right. So, I mean, we talk about headline reforms, the legislation, pasted, frameworks upgraded, But how do we know that these aren't just box ticking? Where's the evidence of this?
So the fact that the fat F has removed us from the gray list in itself is evidence that they are satisfied that we've produced sufficient evidence to be removed from the graylest. But you must also bear in mind that it's not simply a matter of saying, okay, you're off the gray list, now go on your merry way to the delisting. South Africa will transition from increased monitoring to regular follow up, a regular follow up process under
the fastest mutual evaluation cycle. So we will be required to submit periodic follow up reports to the fact if we will have to continue to demonstrate sustained reforms in m O and CFT, which is counter financing of terrorists, terrorism compliance and continued enforcement of laws, investigations and prosecutions.
So how hard is that going to be? I mean, we've just been hearing.
Over the last couple of weeks how corrupted we are in so many areas pers judiciary, finance, I mean, you name it. How hard is it going to be to stay off the list?
So I think if there's a sustained effort, and I'm very mindful, I mean, I'm an eternal optimist when it comes to this country. I'm very mindful of the fact that everything that we hear in the news is typically bad news, so we continuously bombarded with the bad side of the story, whereas there is in fact a lot of good work being done, both in state institutions and in the private sector to keep South Africa afloat, to improve our image in the marketplace and to attract foreign direct investment.
So it's not a simple task.
Corruption is rife. I've just started reading the book The Beta Decran's Murder, which is quite quite enlightening, especially you know, listening to the commission into the police at the moment as well. So corruptions obviously rife, issues like money laundering continue to plague this country, but with sufficient will, which is required in both the public and private sectors. I think we can get there. I think we can what
we've already gotten there. I think we can continue to keep ourselves off the gray list as long as that. I think if the will to do good and to attract for our indirect investment outweighs those individuals who seek only to enrich themselves, then I think we can stay there.
Okay, Rebecca Thompson, partner and head of Investigations, Compliance and Ethics from Baker McKenzie, thank you for that. We've got Ismael Momaniette back on the line, Rebecca says she has absolutely no idea what you're talking about, but has suggested that the two of you have a conversation off air and iron out the allegations that you threw at them. Let me just ask you, what does this mean for you and for me?
What doesn't mean ignorant? She should read the Newton Commission's report, all the so called Baker McKenzie investigations that were done by paying and none of those reports have been made public. And frankly, there were.
Some investigations and this is just an issue.
When you're dealing with greatesty we've had to regulate legal firms as well, and they must not use prime confidentiality to cover up, for example, the capture of stars. Yeah, they disclose fully and that's why I'm just finding it ironic that companies like this are legitimized and have never come to the party to confess their full role in the capture of Stars, in protecting the cricket companies like Braine that captures starts, I feel very strongly about it.
All Right, we've lost Ismael again and hopefully we'll be able to get him back because it'll be good to get a little bit more details about what does actually means for you and for me. I mean, what impact will it have on interest rates, on foreign direct investment, the cost of borrowing? But you know, according to the FATF, the good news is that we seem to have ticked all the boxes the requirements that were needed of us,
and we've got to really clean up our act. It's going to be hard not to slide back off again because of the staggering number of players who are out there for their.
Own good and not for the good of the country.
And it'll be interesting to know as well when a country is gray listed what exactly happens behind the scenes two ordinary investors to businesses and financial institutions here in South Africa.
Isma, we've got you back again.
I just want to find out from you what this is going to mean for the man and the woman on the street has How are we going to be positively affected?
Now?
See all right, Ismael, We're going to leave it there. That's National Treasuries Ismael Momo Niat talking about South Africa being removed off the gray list.
That happened in about an hour and a half's time.
The Money Show explainer.
Right.
So, ESCAM has made it easier for homeowners to power up their own sunshine. The utility has scrapped the costly sign off requirement for rooftop solar systems, a move that will could speed up installations. It could cut red tape and give South Africans more control over their energy. It's a small step with big potential both for the grid and for your wallet. Let's bring on Kevin Play, general manager in Distribution at ESKHAM. A very good evening to you.
What has ESCAMB changed? Why this exactly? How big a deal is it for the homeowner?
Good evening, Jane Good evening to the listeners, thank you. So, in essence, ESCAM has relaxed the registration requirements to a certain degree, and that is on the back of wider industry consultation and a few tweaks we put into the
final process. So we previously add what was perceived as an onerous registration requirement, and we we had that in place for many reasons, and we then sort of compartmentalized the requirement to a less onerous requirement, specifically for residential installations.
I mean, this sign us rule cost tharsand and slowed installations as you were saying for mats. Why did it take ESCAM this long though to drop it?
I think, firstly, ESCHIM is a utility, isn't unilateral decision making abilities. We are bound to ensure that we are very clear in terms of adherence to regulations, to legislation, et cetera. So there were several regulations and legislation requirements that we're guiding our requirement one two that noted that a lot of these were compiled or came into being in during sort of the first generation of inverters that
entered into South Africa, and those were legacy systems. So there were a lot of safety requirements in built on the registration requirements, and now that we have a better presence of more modern inverters et cetera, we then sought to put in a few control points in terms of
type TIS certificates, et cetera. So should they invert and meet the requirement, then you enjoy this now less onerous option to have your installation signed off now by an accredited either master electrician or installation electrician registered with the Department of Labor.
Here are thousands of people saying, who are finally, is it also okay? Said ESCOM realizes that it just can't police rooftop sellar anymore.
I don't think that was ever our intent. I think maybe what we should note is that any home owner, any installation is free or has the liberty to install whatever system they want at their premises and they are duty bound in terms of the regulations of South Africa to ensure that that system is safe for the house, so that certificate of compliance, etc. And ESKIM never intended to encoach on that liberty that's available to the own
owner or premise owner. However, when a system seeks to enter the grid, we are duty bound to ensure that it doesn't impose risk to the grid or any other participant.
On the grid.
That means your neighbor or a worker on the system, etc. And we needed to ensure that we play out that requirement and not just whittle it down to just a basic requirement for a single installation not connected to a grid. So we have been as responsible as we can be to protect a larger community.
And the grid.
Now, I mean, we know that ESKAM has lost millions in potential revenue from people going solar. How will it manage that? I should imagine growing financial.
Gap looks so so I think it's and this is a much contested question, but the long and short is that the the cost to serve the residential sector has always there's always been some sort of imbalance between what it costs to serve versus the terriff et cetera. Albeit, it that the price of electricity is going up, but I mean the cost of providing that service is also
going up. So in terms of the the the way we are looking at the revenue side, none of our rules or registration requirements, et cetera, looking at two or in place to close the gap. From a revenue perspective, that's never the reason. What we are doing is we are rather positioning the grid as an open grid to anyone that wants to enter the whether it is an ipp that can utilize the grid to move energy from A to B or even a homeowner worth an insulation
that can put in excess units onto the grid. They to have access to the grid to move that energy to other offtakers, and we are working towards reimbursing.
Them for that.
So what it means is that we separate energy and energy costs from costs associated with utilizing the grid. So therefore, if you are earning a return on the energy that you're putting on the grid, you then need to pay that fee to utilize the grid to enjoy that benefit. So in our grand strategy, we are repositioning the grid to provide grid services and allow more players, including households, to.
Have this ability hower back into the grid.
Right.
Is that.
So just confirming that a homeowner is already running on solo, they don't need to reapply rec We can just carry on as before.
No, so there's no duty upon the homeowner. So first thing you've got to ensure that you get a valid certificate of compliance for your installation, which includes your threat supply to your house, the dB and the wiring to the rest of the house, and the embedded generation which is your PV system, all encompassed in the certificate of compliance. Now, who does this for you? We've relaxed that. Previously we
enforced a professionally registered engineer with EXA. Now that we've built in the control point to say, okay, if you can get an installation electrician or a master electrician which should come with lower fees, registered with the Department of Labor, that can give a typefit certificate and meet the EGI installation tests report, then that would be admissible in terms.
Of thank you for your time.
Kevin Play, General Manager and Distribution at ESCAM.
The money show the market.
Let's talk to Cio Benguela Global fund managers Zuelake and Goni and quite a day, right, I mean, how wonderful to start the weekend knowing that we off the gray list. It seems that the rand is holding relatively steady. Do you think this was already priced in such a risk.
Belie In Jane and your listeners, certainly, I don't think it was fully fasting. I don't think the full benefits have come through. I think, as you know, that the gray listing does impact the county quite significantly, particularly in the banking sector where you have high compliance costs and you're also having delays in cross border transaction. But I think that the government level, you're also seen that the cost of funding becomes higher and your FDI investment becomes
quite hindous. So this would basically mean that some of those impediments to be taken away and we should see a slight improvement in the economic performance. And I think if one looks at the precedents from other countries like the Philippines Takey, there was a meaningful improvement in the
economy performance post the change. So I think there may be positive surprises both in terms of the course of capital to the government and the country, but also there may be people who are willing to invest in the countries as a result of this.
Okay, okay, that's uh, that is very needed.
Absolutely, And let's talk about the roller coaster week for Gold and the outlook there.
Yeah.
I think, I mean we've seen that the goal process put back quite shappy and significantly as well. So so, and we are seeing that leading into our markets in the gold stock and the big question now becomes from where we are, is gold going to at least hold up about four thousand or are we going to see the continue to radio or break down. So the effectation is that it would hold up. I mean, we've seen some of the big bodcus. Some are calling for four
thousand and hundred by the end of the year. We think that the key drivers this whole tariff battle battles do affect the confidence of markets and in terms of the auto for the economy. But you also have in central banks that are buying gold instead of the dollar in US treasury. So that is the fact that that would affect those two factors that affect the long term aug But in the short term we might see a bit of volatility, but I think long term we might
see continued momentum. But the goost stocks are actually under quite a bit of pressure because the market has seemed quite a big really and they thinking that it's time to take profits.
Okay, so I like it, and Gourney, thank you for your time for the money show.
The Friday File, the.
Friday File.
Well, and then the Friday file with me Jane Dutton a taste of motion, Cape Town's bus Cuisine Revolution. Going to be talking to Jonathan farre about bus Cuisine. It's Capeton's ground breaking luxury dining experience on wheels, where gourmet meals meet breathtaking views and unforgettable journeys through the heart of the city.
Jonathan, Welcome on to the show.
Hi, JANEA, thank you so much. Thank you for the invite. Looking forward to talking a little bit about our concept and what we're doing.
I mean, when you first pitched it, did everyone think you were a bit crazy or a bit brilliant? I mean, what business opportunity.
Were you solving?
I think firstly when it was a concept that's actually overseas one or two European countries, but it was never being done in South Africa, and we just thought we've got to do it. We've got to try it. And we worked a year and a half up and forth building and at some states worried about is it going to work? It's isn't it going to work? But I'm
so glad that we went through. It's taken off in Cape Town, and I must say for us to bring bus Cuisine as South Africa's first mobile upmarket market double decker restaurant to South Africa delivering a one of a kind dining experience was so great, and the Captonians and the people here as taken to it and enjoying what we're doing. And note that we're very excited about the journey, the growth, the new bus is coming, and very excited about the way forward and what lyinghead of it.
So just paint a picture for us, you, I mean, do you move while people are eating? Is a bus static while you're join your wonderful.
Cuisine and.
No, it's a double decker, upmarket, double decker luxury BUSA on the top section, we've got thirty four seats upmarket, soft econ music, up market that we prepare meals. The bottom section is where we prepare our food and obviously our bathrooms. So we give a full five course lunch wine pairing tune off our trip and a six course dinner trip with wine pairing. So we leave typically the VNA waterfront, we do the Atlantic seaboard, Camps Bay, we go through to twelve Apostles to eight Oat Bay and
come back. You've got that Scenique mountain on the left side Sea on the right hand, elevated views and it's just an amazing experience. It's a wine pairing with award wedding wine farms. The food is some of the best that belief that you can get and we're just giving the people actually a nice tour as well as a nice meal and goll mat experience that that you cannot have somewhere else.
I love the idea of it.
I mean, it's just it's what a fantastic idea and finding something that hasn't been done here before. I mean, but you are launching into a fragile economy, right, I mean you've got high fuel costs, you got rising food prices.
How do you work that in?
I think the big thing for us is when we priced what we were doing and compared to what they're doing overseas, we wanted to try and make sure that we it wasn't a bucket list. It was the top of pricing that that that the locals could afford to. We were not that sid about the international market. National market is fine, but we wanted to price and get into a place where the locals can enjoy it. The
birthday we've got a lot of birthday celebrations anniversary. So I believe looking at the trip and the food and the offering of what we do, is we priced right? And because of that, that's why we're getting the success and the high volumes and the full buses that we're currently getting. So yeah, it's important for us to look after the locals.
And yeah, tell me frustrated and just being priced out of everything from homes to.
So what do you charge?
It's looking at a lunch option. We're looking at one thousand, three hundred and fifteen. Now that is a turn off our trip. That's five courses, and that's your wine printing, so you can have your wine throughout the trip, with your mottels, your beverages, and it's a turn off our luxury trip that you do now. And I can say, needs you to go to a restaurant, do you start to maintain and a dessert with your wines and see
where you get. So we're trying to get to where there is and and and the evenings we do a sixty seven course dinner and as well with your wine pairing and and I mean, if you look at our food, you're you're getting your fish, you're getting your and we were trying to make sure we also incorporate our local producer. It's your your king clips and your brace lamps. And but I promise you it's experienced, worthwhile and and and it's not overpriced. It's we we've done this as well.
It's for our locals and our international clients. Is just bonus wise.
Well, I'm definitely coming next next time. How did you finance?
It?
Was that personal capital? Angel investors? How did it work?
No, the first one was is its personal capital? I think there was a a matter of risk in this whole thing. So I don't think a lot of other people would have invested because it's the first for South Africa. It's the first that we're doing, so I think there was resse. We always knew we would have to do it ourselves, but we believed in the concept. I mean, we from from Victoria and we believed we built it
that site. We brought it the site because the concept we believed was good enough that it were would carry. And and I think the big thing is, unlike traditional restaurants, bus Busin is not confined by location or food traffic. It's mobility, adaptability and multi sensory value sets. It apart from anything else. So we've got a restaurant taking people out, they can see the views, they still having their restaurant experience, and so we're giving them a pure and a restaurant experience.
And we always knew it would definitely work, and that's why we're so excited. That's why our next two buses is up and running by the end of November, and we're going to expand and we're going to do different food offerings. We're going to give people different options and just make sure that we utilize what we've got and give the people of Cape Down and our international tourist
one of the best experiences I can. I mean, Cape Down Cape TWN is one of the world stop curiss and I think it was something it was due for, something bolt like bus busy and I.
Mean you answered my question if the model is scalable, I mean, could we see your bus cuisine here in Joeberg in Durban or even a wine route edition.
No, definitely. I think for us it's important to protect the brand in the sense that we do not outgrow. What we're doing is to to make sure what we do to that the model works, that we keep the essence of what we're doing. So definitely we're scaling. We're doing three in Cape Town, We're going to the Winelands, We're going to the Garden. Were looking at the diferent options for Pretoria and Joe Work. So definitely currently we're
going to have three. Were doing another two early next year, and we're looking at about ten fifteen, and then as well doing partnerships maybe with hotels that take this opportunity with us. So now definitely we're going to take it them. I think being trum Petoria, joe Burg as well, we've got an idea where now we want to do it. So what's this place?
It's on its way And yes, so obviously it makes sense you touched on as well that you'd be collaborating with hotels possibly caped on.
Tourism to package their experience.
And then I guess there are a lot of players who will benefit from this ecosystem.
I agree and and Jay, And the big thing is we don't we're not competing in other restaurants and they're doing what they're doing. I think we were just bringing something new, something fresh. So we are collaborating ready with a few hotels. We're getting a lot of requests from from tour companies that that that want to sell this already to the over his market as well as your
cruise shops. And that's so they see the value because you've got the two on the one side and the food on the other side, and it actually marries and works so well together. So no, we're getting a very a lot of requests and I think we've got a model that I don't want to elaborate now on where are we going to involve hotels and and and also to give them their service offering to their hotels, guess something just to the next level. So it's still something evolving,
it's still something we're working with. But I must say the adoption and what's happened has supplied us. I mean, in the first month we had five million views on different social media platforms, one and a half million on TikTok, So everybody was so excited about the prontip so made our marketing if it's very easy and you know, I mean it's something that period.
I mean, I'm excited about it.
It's just I think you can see it and it's just it's so clever, so smart. I mean, a friend of mine she started hot huts in Cape Town and Mobile Saunas and I know that the compliance and you know, going through the cutting through the red tape and all of that was was a bit of a headache.
Was it a problem for you?
It was?
It was definitely, But I must say because the only reason it was a bit difficult is because I didn't understand what we were doing and it was something new. It's easy when you've got references, so it was something new. But I must say, Cape down and the local government saw the potential and they assisted as far as possible to make this work and to make sure we get all the compliances. But being a tourism city it made it very easy as they were also eager and making
sure that that it would work. So where we thought it might be a little bit more difficult, I think we got a lot of assistance from from from the Western Cape government and the local authorities and we we we assume and hope that that would be the same ones we we expand and bring it down to houting in those places.
But obviously social media plays a big role here.
Yes, definitely, but it's it's definitely social media. Instagrams and all those is big, big, but the naicingness everybody's sharing, is sharing the experience. It's one of those things every it goes on. We've got engagements on the bus, anniversaries forty fifty percent somebody is celebrating something on the bus, either a birthday an adversary, like I said, engagement party.
We're also getting a lot of group functions and groups coming on, corporate companies doing their year in function and doing a lot of functions on the bus as well.
Okay, so if somebody.
Wants to book, if we want, somebody wants to book it all out. If they want to book one seat, what should they do?
I think that much. Just go to our website. It's ww dot bus cuisine, dot co dot zda. They can book online for the guys that to the guests I just want to do two or three. The bigger groups can just obviously mail us to Infight bus Cuisine and reassist them through the old process.
Jonathan Free, wonderful talking to you about bus Cuisine and I wish you all the success.
Thank you so much much appreciated. Jane, thank you for the opportunity. I hope we'll see you soon yet.
Oh yeah, the money show on seven Monday to Friday, six to a pm.
So it is time for the Friday Blitz Biz and I'm going to be asking you a question and if you answer it, I'll keep asking you questions. If you're going don't get it right, we'll we'll get the next person on the line.
And the first.
Question is which international body sets global standards to combat money laundering, terrorist financing and the financing of weapons proliferation?
It has just removed South Africa from.
The gray list. Can me remind you of our number one one A three seven oh two? You can also wash what's up your answers on seven two which would rather speak to you on the line.
The Money Show with stebad Cuotes is brought to you by APPS cib croud sponsor of the APPS Africa Financial Markets Index twenty twenty five.
The Money Show Friday Buslitz and ask the question which international body sets global standards to combat money laundering, terrorst financing and the financing of weapons proliferation? Montler from Rosebank thanks that you have got the answer.
Good evening.
That is infractice.
Yes, do you know what it's what it says, what it means. But as You're acted excellent.
Which European museum was hit with one hundred and two million dollar jewelry heist earlier.
This week.
Laverne Parry the Louver in Paris.
Yes, it remains closed as police investigated daring daylight robbery that saw thease makeoff with priceless French Crown jewels. And this all happened in broad daylight as well. Bash American Swiss and Corey Croft are retailers controlled by which blue chip company.
Um the loi.
Thank you, minche, thank you very much for your time. It is the TFG, the Facini Group. And earlier this.
Week, the Fascini Group saw its share price dropped by over ten percent following the release of a lacklustered trade update for the first half of its twenty twenty six financial Yeah, that wraps up this hour. It's seven o'clock in time for the news.