Episode 50 - Jay Ingram & Wayne Parks

to me, growing up, born in 1970, Old Dominion was always there, you know, it was always a big school. That was the local school. my dad played baseball and he played for Bud Mathy. Uh, but I didn't know anything about Bud Mathey. I didn't really know anything about, the William and Mary college system. I didn't know that, old Dominion had been part of William and Mary. I didn't know there was a whole system there. VCU used to be part of William and Mary at the same time.

The project interested me really just learning about, the area that I'm from and, uh, and really found out a whole lot of fascinating things, honestly, about Old Dominion, about the baseball program. Uh, got to meet those teams, those championship teams from the early and mid 1960s, uh, like Wayne. really for me, it's been a great experie.

Regional at Yankee Stadium. my dad got the month and even though he was a huge, Yankee band, he never got to go to Yankee Stadium with the team. so he missed out on that. for him, it was a great experience. Um, and, and actually I probably should have said right off the bat that you, you asked me why did I write this book? Well, actually, The end result of the book is every copy sold, every bit of the proceeds is gonna go to a baseball scholarship at Old Dominion in my parents' name.

so my dad actually passed away in October of 2020, but the book was still underdevelopment. I didn't never think I'd really make a ton of money at it anyway, I wasn't gonna retire from my job. but it was nice to be able to honor my dad and I really, both my parents. Setting up a scholarship at Old Dominion and using this book, to fund it, and how he kept up with the, with the team over the years. I'm not sure that he was the best at that. Wayne.

You can ask Wayne about that, because Wayne was the co-captain. and one of the stars of the team.

But because of being a co-captain, I had kept up with most of the guys and could reach out to 'em with contacts and so forth. And, uh, back in those days, most of the people that liked to play ball in the area, we were playing high school ball and we'd play American Legion Ball during the summertime. And uh, then there was a Norfolk City League too that continued until 1966 semi-pro team and a lot of us played in that as well. So just, just through those kind of things.

We all knew each other from playing ball and so,

but since I moved back to the area, I've reconnected with a lot of the old guys. we've, we still have, eight or nine of us that are still walking and talking and can move on our own. We've, unfortunately, we've lost two or three of the guys just since Jay started the book, including his dad. but we, we all still keep up and have a meeting, get together for lunch, uh, now and then, and. talk about the times and those were some of the best times of our lives, that's for sure.

And the campus has changed tremendously. I mean, when we played before, uh, as Jay says in the book and describes it quite well, we played in Largemont Field right across from Hampton Boulevard. And um, bud was the only coach. There was no assistant coaches. Everybody packed their own gear for away games and, took it with you. We did have a team manager.

We traveled by in my freshman year, we, we had like two or three vans and, bud asked me to even drove my personal car during basketball season and baseball. Uh, so we, we'd have no transportation, but uh, and they were all good times and I still keep up with a lot of the guys.

And then we'd go out to what we generally, a very, very cold February field to practice in. When we finally did get outside,

Norfolk division of William and Mary became Old Dominion in 1962 and this baseball team was winning Champ. Through the power of the internet today, I can look and see, where the team was making news. the team was in newspapers in Hawaii and Nevada and of course they're playing in Yankee Stadium. one of the things I mentioned in the book is that, nothing builds a university and nothing buy-ins alumni to a university like a successful athletic program.

And, uh, the example I use is, is Frank Beamer. I went to Tech, Virginia Tech in the late nineties and I saw before they had a successful program, and now I live in Roanoke, so I'm, I'm in Blacksburg pretty routinely, and I see the way it's exploded. Well, dominion is pretty much the same way, you know, if you think back to the sixties, um, how does it become a 25,000 student university or there?

the coach Mathy, a Yankee coming into town, a World Series champion, um, he has, there's not much competition for baseball talent in the Hampton Roads area. So he's dominant in the recruiting. He's putting together teams of elite athletes. Um, and, you know, he's got all Americans, he's got Jim Zadel, you know, that's making news.

Um, he has Bob Walton, he has Fred Co. He has Fred Covner getting drafted right after Johnny Bench in 1965 and before Tom Sever and Nolan Ryan, um, bud Matheny himself, national Coach of the Year, uh, after the 1964 season. To me, all these things compound. Um, and so how does, how does a fledgling college get the name recognition? How does it become, that huge 25,000, student university, and to me that's what, that's one of the things I'm.

it really is the influence of Coach Mathey, and those elite baseball.

It was a long time ago, so I don't think folks really realize exactly how world events were shaping, what local things were going on. So if you could share just a little bit, uh, to get people interested about that.

so just a real wealth of information there. They also have, they had an archivist, Dr. James Sweeney, who had interviewed a lot of the key figures in Old Dominion's early history. And so they're the, um, old Dominion Library actually has, uh, audio or audio and transcribed interviews from, coach Mathey, Lewis Webb and so on. that's where I'd start first. I mean, there's just so much information and, uh, the library has. a great job of that stuff.

Uh, but the Old Dominion starts as a two year school, purely a commuter school. there was no dorms at Old Dominion until 1965. so you're talking about a two year school, you're talking about a commuter school. basically a community college. so the team to be competitive in sports was playing local high. they were playing ma in baseball. They were in a league, Tidewater, scholastic league, with local high school teams. And, um, that stayed pretty true through a big part of the thirties.

And then of course you got into, world War II years and that pretty much drained the University of Male students. so there was a couple of years where the, there was no baseball program. and when there was a baseball program, you know, they were primarily. Local Navy teams, uh, at the time. And so that, that's kind of the early part of the, uh, of the program. And you got into fifties and you, and in the fifties you started seeing a lot of changes.

So 1955, they started the, the school started a four year program, so that obviously benefits the baseball program. they got included into the little eight, shortly thereafter into the ncaa. And then in the early 60. the Mason Dixon conference. So you saw a lot of changes start happening in the fifties, um, that really, helped. I would have to say it helped, coach Masini really recruit that stable of elite athletes.

We had to furnish our own gloves and our own shoes. Uh, bud did have some, uh, really nice, uh, Yankee pens, stripe uniforms that we were all proud of and wore. And, but the equipment was fine. It, you know, it wasn't anything of a, I just had one sidebar I, I thought I'd throw in too. I grew up a big Yankees fan as well.

I did so because my, uh, grandmother, uh, used to rent rooms when an awful tars were here back in the days, uh, just after the war and all she, she used to rent rooms doing during the, uh, minor league, season. In spring training, she would, she rented rooms to like Phil Zuto and Yogi Baron, people like that.

I grew up, remember watching my first World series on TV in the fifties and back in the fifties there was always Yankees and Dodgers usually, and I'd go over and watch the World Series cause they were day games in with grandmother. But that, that's how I grew up, a Yankees fan as well and really enjoyed, uh, the whole Yankee atmosphere and the trip trip there as well. But the equipment was, was fine. but we had to be careful with it.

Cause Bud didn't like you breaking a lot of bats, that's for sure. Cause we want a very limited budget.

How did you end up at Old Dominion?

And so I played a lot of games there and, uh, bud would come out and, uh, watch games at night and he would see a lot of the local talent then. Primarily it was just talent from Norfolk, uh, Virginia Beach, uh, Hampton and Newport News that that made up most of our team people from those areas. We'd get occasional one or two from Eastern North Carolina. But, but that was, that was, and there was plenty of players to play in from, from that part.

So he was also athletic director of baseball and basketball coach. when scrap retired, he was also in charge of the whole physical ed education department, for the studies part. And that's sort of thing, the college grades and all. He had his plate full, but, um, he. Bud was an easy guy to play for the like, and uh, he very seldom had any discipline problems.

you'd always have a few characters like you do on any team, but, uh, but as team, as a team, Bobby Walden and I would talk to guys and, uh, so we never had any real bad problems where we had to throw guys off the team or anything like that. But Bud was real easy to play fun, and he was well, like, well respected in the community and, and, uh, most people learned a lot of good traits from Bud other than playing sports for him as well.

Jay and Wayne, can y'all, can y'all talk a little bit, about how Bud led you guys through those particular times? Because it was a very, uh, um, precarious moment in time in a lot of different.

They have whole basketball teams, football teams and, and one, uh, one big dorm. Well, they studied, they practiced and all of that. basically we came to school, did our schoolwork, went to practice, and then went home at night. I just mentioned the four areas, which were all drivable. we all talked about that sort of thing at home and, and as a team, but it wasn't, um, and during the day, but it, it wasn't really, never was a problem where it was all consuming.

But we all talked about that, that sort of, Okay. You have something you'd like?

A lot of high school kids and Norfolk, rather than integrate schools, the Virginia governor at the time said, we're gonna lock these, we're gonna lock these schools instead. So there was, I can't remember the number now. It's in the book. 10,000 kids. it got locked outta school because the, the governor was, um, refused to allow the schools to integrate. that blows your mind when you think about that today. That's where we were, as a nation and locally.

but all those things, um, were kind of swirling around. These early sixties teams, uh, and that, that's another thing that's kind of amazing. Uh, here's a team that goes out and wins 88% of its game. I mean, it's in 1964. So they were really able to obviously focus and block all that out, um, and, uh, and have a pretty amazing year, uh, several amazing years. I, to go back to Bud Math just a little bit, uh, say talking about he had, uh, so much on his plate.

This is one thing, Mike, you asked earlier. Earlier is what kind of surprised me. it kind of surprises me now that I'm, uh, we're getting into talking about this, how many things he had on his plate. Because if you see in that book, he started coaching Old Dominion. He was still playing pro ball, in town. Wayne mentioned that Norfolk City League, for a while, coach Masini was also managing a Norfolk City League team in the summer. Wayne mentioned he was athletic director.

Besides being a. you know, the newspaper, you can find all kinds of, events where Coach Matney, he was talking to the Norfolk Sports Club or the Peninsula Sports Club or whatever, really just amazing, that he had that much energy and that much time, to be such a fixture in Norfolk and really raised the profile of the school.

for example, I was, uh, teaching, uh, doing my student teaching part, uh, at that time at Blair Junior High School and Came in between periods in the afternoon shot, you know, you how junior high, high school kids carrying on. I didn't pay attention to it first, but then, then I found out it was surreal and that was just a surreal moment. Remembering that they points out a lot of the guys, they, they, they remember exactly where they were when all this was going on.

we said, wow, we wish we'd have had those back then, and so on and so forth. But, um, the bat does make a difference. But they, they've gone to the aluminum for fairly, uh, financial reasons in colleges and so forth. You don't have so many broken VAs. And, and that big expense. But, uh, that really is, uh, a big difference and, and the ball gets on everybody a lot quicker.

Um, but basically the game is, was the same in aluminum bats or wouldn't bats, it's just you, you played at the time, you played against who you played against. And, um, our team was just, took. Every game is a challenge and we just, just, we'd get behind and we never, never felt like our team dude. And we had, I think it's 6 9 19 63. The first seven guys, I think we had a team average was in the three twentys for a batting average 63 team.

And, uh, the first selling guys in Atlanta were either hitting 400 or 300. And, uh, that was a year Jimmy zk hitting like 4 22 right field and made all American. Had a great year. But, um, but whatever the equipment was and whoever the teams are, everybody wants to compare teams in yours. You know, you, all you can do is, is play against who you played against at that time and do the best you.

And, uh, if we were playing two games that day, he'd usually start Bobby first with all his slow stuff, cuz he had pinpoint control too. And then he'd bring in Freddy, who hadn't, who could really throw it hard and. but I guess I, I, I guys had played so much ball that, between, uh, high school and then in the summers we'd go run into American Legion and then, and all the guys on the team, uh, most of 'em were also playing city league in the summertime.

So that, that, you know, that was against former pro players and, uh, some really good caliber, uh, of competitions. So we were really, when you look at that, we, we were really seasoned players when we got to college playing against all that different kind of competition and so forth. And um, so we didn't worry so much about 'em cuz we didn't have 'em anyway, scouting the ports and so forth and things like that. And we just felt like we could compete.

we took, took the field and we went between the lives. We felt like we were gonna win every game, literally. And we were surprised when we didn't.

This was the one Whitey Ford was playing and Mickey Mantle and people like that. And we all got just the old minion team. Got to walk through there and so forth and see that. Now I remember to this day, Mickey Mantle being one of my favorites, I counted he had five spares of five pairs, rather spikes that he'd left here. I don't know how many he had with him, you know? Back then, you know, if we had one Ferris fight, it lasted the whole season. So that was really an impressive thing to see.

But that was really impressive. And then, uh, of course I graduated in 64, but the firing year after we'd won two, the two, um, championships in a row, uh, the guys that were juniors on the 60 14 went back and they still had the nucleus of a good team and made the semi-finals and lost in a very close. Well, that would've been three years in a row, but they got to go back to Yankee Stadium that, that next year, some of 'em. But that was just quite an experience.

Uh, and growing up a Yankees fan, getting, have played third base in Yankee Stadium. I'll always remember that.

It wasn't the Division 1 23. the College World Series, that was University division Penn State, had participated in the College World Series the year before. So you're talking about one of the premier big schools coming to. Um, and the boys from Norbit Beta. 50 years later, 60 years later, I interviewed everybody from the, the, the early sixties team that I could. I interviewed them and you know, I've donated that to the Old Dominion Library too.

I don't think they're posted yet, but I'm asking Zele, do you remember beating Penn State on the double in the ninth inning? He's like, no, I don't even remember those. uh, as Fred Covner. You remember playing Penn State. That was a pretty impressive team. He says, do we play Penn? Did we play Penn State? I don't even know. They were just teams. We went out and beat 'em. and pretty much everybody I asked about that Penn State, they don't even remember Penn State. Not impressed by Penn State.

And it's just like what Wayne said. It's an attitude of, uh, you know, let's get between the lines and whatever you got. Let's see it, uh, let's play.

for a lot of us, our freshman year being 61 and 62, those two teams, when we were, little eight and then got into Mason Dixon conference leading up to the 63 64 teams, I combined record that year was like 34 9. I read in the book, I didn't realize it was that good for 61 to 62 as well.

What kind of things did you guys have that kind of fueled you when you were gonna play a game?

But, it was limited what Bud's budget was. It was, I can't remember exactly, but it was like two to three, $4. So you'd spend that after a basketball game or whatever. But no, we didn't have anything to snack on during the games, and I don't remember food ever being a part of it between games.

a lot of times Fred would be on third base if I'd get a single to write or something like that, and I'd be on first and or Fred would be if he stopped on second, but have the. Just a delayed steel play. It's like if, if, uh, Fred Conner was on the second and I was on first, um, I would break towards second base and Fred would start towards third and deliberately get caught, deliberately get caught and hung up.

And, uh, Fred would always make it a third base and then I could coast in the second on there was a tail end of a double steel. That's about the only way I. and I told the guys kiddingly, bud used to always kidding me about, I was a really good drag bonner for a right-handed batter, but then I couldn't beat him out nine times outta 10.

So I quit doing it and one day, one day after I did it, I came back to the bench and Bud calls me over and says, Wayne, I don't mind you carrying that piano, the first base. Just don't stop and play it though here.

Um, no, we, we, we weren't just a singles and doubles team, more or less, but when, when you get a chance to look at the stats in the book, um, You'll see some of 'em. Jay compiled the, uh, stats on every person for 63, team 60 14. And uh, he did an amazing job on writing it. And, um, Jay touched on it briefly, but I, anybody listening, it, it's a really good read.

It's not just about the championship baseball teams, but in depth about, about Matheny and what went on during those years and so forth and, um, Jay is donating. Um, um, all of the profits from the book, um, go directly back into this, uh, endowed scholarship. He's endowed after to name it, after his mom and dad. Um, so any books that are sold goes right, all the money goes, goes right back in to the, uh, scholarship.

I'm bringing that up, making that distinction because there's actually a little bit of different, um, amounts. if somebody buys a book from mascot books, I'm gonna get the purchase price minus 15%. That's, and then that's all gonna go to the scholarship. It's available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble, what have you, but but instead of like 19 bucks going to the scholarship, there's probably gonna be more like 12 or 13.

So the best place where I'm directing people to go, hit mascot books and hit the bookstore link.

But if anybody wanted to get up with me about a book, I'll just, uh, feel free to give my phone number and, and or my email and I'll, I'll contact them or just let her be Trim, you know, everybody knows and he'll get off with me.