Episode 28 - Nancy "Lady Magic" Lieberman

Then I went to, and I love football by the way, but then I started playing baseball and I could have played on the boys' baseball team at Fire Rockaway High School. I mean, I, I loved it. Played with these guys all the time. And I was getting ready to play P Pal Baseball in a league. And the day of our first game, the coach of the team said, You can't play. And I said, Why? He. It's crazy, but they won't assure you because you're a girl.

So I think that was the first time I probably, I didn't know the word for it, but you know, it was the first time that I was ever discriminated against and I went to the local Y M C A, the gust of Y M C A in Hays Water where I lived in Far Rockaway. And I went to the main window and I said to the guy, Do you have basketball leagues? He goes, Yes. I said, Great. Can I play in the boys league? He said, Yes. I said, It's okay. That I'm a girl. And he said, Yes, we'd love to have you.

And I'm very grateful for whoever that person was who said yes, because I, you know, the guys that I played against, you know, toughened me up and taught me how to compete, helped me to be you know, the development of the player that I became.

I made it to the training camp and I had my ribs broken and decided right then and there I was gonna come back and I was gonna just play so hard and get a chance to try out, you know, for the, the Pan American team. And so I finished my junior year at Old Domin. And I, I, excuse me, my, my junior year far high school and I tried out and I actually made the Pan American team. We won the gold medal in the PanAms, and then 76 was amazing. I'm at the tryouts.

I didn't know if I was gonna make it or not, but in a, a kind of a, a crazy twist of fate, I ended up beating Maryanne Stanley. For that last spot on the 76 Olympic team, you know, I was bigger, I was more athletic. She was much smarter and savvy about the game. She was a FreeTime all American FreeTime national champion, and I was just this kid from the hood in New York, but they figured they were gonna pick that spot for the history of the game and I appreciated it.

And I think, as they say, right, it all worked out the way it should work.

But I needed to go to college and I needed to get out of New York so I could then grow as a person. And you know, I had over a hundred scholarship offers and I kept asking, So what was your record last year? It wasn't very sophisticated. So you did, oh, you won the championship last year, or you did this or that? I wanted to go to a school that nobody had, never had ever heard. I wanted to go to a school that was losing, cuz I always felt like I was kind of an underdog in a sense.

And Old Dominion, I don't know, you guys could go back and check the record. I think I fudged, but I think it was like, you know, seven or eight and 20 or whatever you were, and it was close to it, you know, I could drive from New York, it was seven hours, and if I got nervous or scared or homesick, I could, I, I didn't have the money to fly home, but I could drive. And it, it turned out to be the best move for me. But I will tell you this, the seven freshmen, we made a pinky.

We made a pinky swear in the locker room. I'm taking Debbie Richard's job, so and so's taking Ave baggage job. So and so's taking Wendy Larry's job. So and so's taking, We all decided we were gonna take an upperclassman's job and we were gonna do this every single day. In practice. We were just going, every possession, every drill.

We were just gonna play, even though we might not have had the experience that they did, but we were going to go play and we were gonna change the culture at Old Dominion University and put our thumbprint on this, on the history of the program. It's kind of cool that, you know, seven freshmen could do that.

She was young, so I think she still had a lot of competitor in her. And you know, we didn't talk that much my sophomore year, and I think it was maybe. Like in the exit interviews that, you know, we sat and talked and she, she asked me a really hard question. She says, Do you make you good or do you make everybody else good? And, you know, being young and stupid, I went, I make everybody good. Not a very humble answer.

And she said, Nancy, if you'll make Inne and an All American, if you'll make Jan Trump, lay all state, if you'll make your teammates better, I think we can. And we can win a national championship. And I went, you know, I said, Well what, what are you asking me? She goes, I'm asking you, you know, to shoot less, pass more, be more selective. At that time I was probably a volume shooter.

I was probably taking 25 shots a game and you know, I could get shots anytime I wanted, but it might have been good for my scoring average. But it really wasn't good in the big picture, even though we went 30 and four, we won the n i my sophomore. I needed to give better if we were gonna be champions. And, and Maryam, you know, had the guts to, to look at somebody who was an All American and say, I need you to be better.

And I respected her, pushing me like that, and that's what Pat Summit did on the USA team. She was always in my face, pushing me to be better, and I became a better player and person for it.

The W N B A wasn't even a thing at, at the beginning, and of course it was a little bit later, but you were a pioneer in basketball when we had a dear friend of yours, Jay Harris on the podcast earlier this year, he shared with us one of his favorite basketball stories about him playing two on one against Michael Jordan. And it was pretty funny. Could you share one of your favorite basketball stories with.

I was like, Okay. And I looked at him, I go my ball out, Title nine, and he just kinda looked at me and he, the one thing that I will say about Michael Jordan as a prelude to, I was playing one on one. I kept asking him, Why do you play so hard in the coaches games? He said, They'll beat me when they can beat me. And I've always used that even with my son tj, who as you know, as a profess. You'll beat me when you can beat me. And so with that, Michael played hard.

And I always tell people, I mean, we were going at it, I mean, I was attacking him, I was making his bald head sweat, you know, He was two time champion. Three time champion and three time, you know, player of the year in the nba. And it was, it was one of the toughest games I've ever played in my entire career. And Michael, Michael barely beat me. He was amazing. He, he beat me 10 to two and people were like laughing at me. I'm like, Dude, I scored two points on Michael Jordan.

He was one of my best efforts ever. And my job was to make him shoot gem shots, not to have him dunk on me, cuz I know he wanted to and I just refused to let him do that to me. And you know, you know, we all have a story of something that meant something that was because it was so unique, but actually went in the national championships and, and being up on the podium, you know, with my teammates. Are the two greatest things. I love old minion. I'm a monarch for life.

I love the players of my generation, the next generation. I love the football players. I'm friends with, you know, Taylor Heineke and Kent Baysmore and you know, I love that we have, you know, the first African American President and President Hemp bill at Old Dominion. I'm not just about my time there, I'm about the history of Old Dominion and sports and education.

And I did find out when I was on campus with Wendy Larry when we brought the three championship teams together, and you guys probably didn't know this, there was a library on campus, very little known thing to me, And she lives me. She goes, You have got to stop. We have recruits. Here I go, Is that a new building? She goes, Nancy, it was built in the seventies. Really? That's the, Did Wilson know that? Or you know Joey Caruthers or, Or fur Tommy Conrad. That's amazing.

I was up on a ladder cleaning gutters, and I was the player of the year in college basketball. I don't think I've told anybody that story, and I was like, Why am I doing this? I'm an all American. He goes, Super do. You can't get a free meal. Well, obviously I'm not getting free milk cuz I'm on a ladder cleaning the gutters on your roof. If I fall, they'll Dr. Jared will kill you. So yeah, that was, I loved going down to the beach.

I loved, like, I loved having Mr. Wilkins and Har and Pam as my family because that was one of the things that, you know, was really tough in my childhood. So they, they really represented family. And then West Locker, you know, the, the mascot. Crazy West and we are inseparable to this day. We talk every week since 1976. We talk every week inseparable. It's crazy and.

Women's sports were important to Old Dominion before it was cool, before it was mainstream, before Title nine, but eventually larger schools. They entered, they changed the landscape od and his last few hires with Nikki McCray and deletion, Milton Jones appeared to have a renewed commitment to women's basketball. Now, how does a mid-major like ODU compete in the current college basketball l.

And, you know, hats off to, to my guys on the game they won on Saturday that was phenomenal. And they, they really right. They should be three and out right? That Virginia game, so,

You know I think Woods done a really good job getting us into conferences that are gonna push us, stretch us, and challenge us to be better. And I think you're now getting those athletes who want to play, you know, at an elite level and not just at, you know, a level that they're comfortable at.

We had like a group chat you know, if something happened, Tony Ellis and Furman and, and, and Wes and, you know, everybody is on this group chat and it's, you know, Ricky Kazinski and it's, it's so cool like names that I hadn't seen some of these people in years. Something good will happen, or even Oliver Pernell.

And Coach Webb, you know, I'll pick up the phone, you know, when Charlotte died and, and, and call, you know, Coach Webb and he was like, You know, Nancy, it is really, really nice to hear your voice and to talk. And I just tell him, Coach Webb, you did so much for our university. So the women's team, Chris Elli you know, our managers, you know, I'm trying to think Rose, you know, Rose leave. It was rose rig.

You know everybody, we get on calls, There's like eight or nine of us that get on these calls. Sandy Burke will get on the calls and it's amazing. It is amazing that everybody could see what they're doing.

You know, especially during Covid, we were sitting in our houses and we were probably, you know, I caught a fish, you know, this big and you know, now it's this big and we just, we just talk about each other and family and, and that's why I, like, for me, it's really important when I come back, you know, on the fifth you, you prob do you guys know about the statue?

And you know, we represent, if one has success, we all have success, but that's gonna be able to have a young man or a young woman. Volleyball or, or, or golf or tennis or whatever, walk up there and go, Man, I want a statue one day. And then they're gonna unveil, you know, the mayor's gonna unveil the street that's being changed. And Nancy pass, which is unbelievable.

And then my friends at Pepsi we're giving a $25,000 NI to the women's basketball program with Pepsi, you know, stronger together. And so some of those athletes can have, you know, some pocket money, which I didn't have when I was there. And then we're gonna open up another dream for it at the Boys and Girls Club.

And again, it's gonna be for og, it's gonna be stronger together, it's gonna be, you know, Pepsi and, and, and Derek Lewis, the, the president of Multicultural and Racial Equality in, in North America. They're so, For women and they're, you know, old men is a Pepsi poor. And then, you know, like our mayor, he's a graduate of old Doen and I got to meet him at the, the t-shirt court when we opened up our court together. So there's, you know, we want our friends at Norfolk State to come over.

We, we want our f you know, I know football, we have a game at one o'clock I think against Marshall, but after we do all that in the morning, we're going over to the football stadium and people are coming. You know, friends of mine are coming back. The low zones will be there, Wes will be there, hopefully Tommy Conrad, and so many of our family members. It's, it's not my statue. It's our statue and it's, it, you know, at Old Dominion we're dream, you know, we're dream givers.

We're not hope Steelers and old many gave me hope that I could be more than I thought I was at 18 years old. And it, it changed my life on, on such a, a world stage. So I feel like I, I owe this university a lot.

He and Bruce Smith, I think they got me drunk one day cause I thought it was Jello and apparently it was Jello shots. They left out a little information and I was flipping the coin and I was like, Yeah, I feel weird And they both were like, you know, that's Jello shots. I'm like, You could have told me. Okay, so I'm, I'm not happy with Jay or, or, But you know, Bobby Dridge is gonna come. We want everybody to come. We want our alumni to be there. We want you guys to be there.

That's gonna be a real cool thing for, for Old Dominion. And, you know, not only for myself, but for all of us. Be kind of cool.

So something like that, that's what our hope is it once we hand it off to the folks there, it's semi court, it's your court and, and it's a, a gift to the kids in the community from, from us and, and from Pepsi. And so they never, you know, one day they could have their own legacy of what they give.

Some people, you know, need more love and kindness and empathy and understanding, but you know, you can be firm, but you can be fair. So you really have to make sure that you're knowing. One of my favorite things that I tell people, and this is since I was coaching in the W N B A in 90. Was K y P. Know your personnel. Know your people. You know, if somebody can't catch a bounce pass, don't throw 'em a bounce pass. You're setting them up for success. So I need to know my players.

I wanna know Catino, I wanna know his, you know his daughter Sam and, and Miles his son. I wanna know Corey Mcg, Getty's kiddos. I wanna know Millie, his wife. I need to know Big Baby Davis. I need to know exactly how big, Big Baby Davis. And, you know, we can have a little bit of a wink, wink and a smile and we're birdman or tell me about these tattoos and, you know, when did you get 'em? Why did you get him? Did it have significance?

Quentin Richardson is one of the all time, all time greatest. Pros. Pros, I miss him. I adore him. Koran Butler, Seth Curry, DeMarcus you know, Raan Rondo. You know, I've been very lucky. And then, you know, great W B A players, everybody's different. And now in the big three, you know, last year this summer and we, we made it to our, the third championship game in five years. Team power, which is hard to do winnings hard. We won the championship in 2018.

But, you know, you, you, you have Glen Rice Jr. Right? His dad was a, a bucket. He was unbeliev. TJ played for me for the first time. And, you know, trying to navigate, you know, how to, how to coach my kid. Cause he had to, he has to be one of the boys. He can't be mama's boy. He has to be one of the boys and they have to believe in him that I'm not just giving him a payday. So there's so many different intricacies and I haven't even talked about X's nerves right now.

I'm just talking about people and life and love and kindness. I just want my guys to know I care about them and or the women that I coach. I want 'em to know that I care about them and they're not just commodities and exchangeable pieces. Now I can't, I can't speak for every other coach, but you know, I'm taking the, the Greg Popovich route. I wanna sit down and, and you know, have a glass of ice tea or have a Pepsi or whatever Gatorade with one of my players.

I wanna know about their, I wanna know what their childhood was like, what made 'em happy, what made 'em sad? If they know you believe in them, then even on our worst days together where they're exasperated with me or I'm exasperated with them, you don't break the bond. You're, you're upset, but the bond is never broken. And it's a tricky balance because, you know, you have so many players, but it's okay. And I, I actually feel. To have been given these responsibilities and think about it.

I'm, somebody said this to me a while back. I'm an athlete from the eighties and it's 2022 and I'm doing more in 2022. Right? I mean, a lot of athletes you mean here, really? Or it could be Jackie Joiner or be a ham, or you know, Martin, or you know what? What guys in the eighties, Mc Barkley. You know, Michael Jordan, you hear about, but a lot of 'em you don't hear about. So God doesn't make mistakes.

I'm the right person for the right job at the right time, and I'm here and I'm, you know, by the grace of God, I'm healthy. I'm eager, I still have that dog in me. I wanna win. I wanna make people better. I wanna change lives. And I, I know I'm an influencer and that's, you know, that's important to me.

Not at Niagara, not at Richmond, not in Europe, not at, you know, the, the Washington Wizards, you know, or the, the go-go. It's not my job, it's my job now it's his coach playing for team power. But that's not my job to call you and where you out about tj. TJ has worked so hard. He is such a professional from how he eats to how he sleeps, to how he takes care of his body. It's blown me away and he's got friends all over the world and I'm proud he went to Richmond.

I'm thankful you know, for Chris Mooney and Rob Jones and everybody over at Richmond for what they did. You know, they took a young man and they grew him into a wonderful, wonderful, mature. And they set him up for success, not failure. And you know, Chite would have been least likely to ever be the eight 10 player of the year. It's crazy. So we're, we're just, we have gratitude and you know, he has a lot of humility. He never will tell you who he is and what he is. And that about him.

And one of the funny parts about it is, you know, I was sitting court side and they, you know, they have you, you know, on the TV board or whatever, the LED d board and one of his teammates is like saying to another teammate, I think he putting that lady's picture up there. That, and the kid goes, You. It's TJ's mother, you know, he award 10. She award 10, and the guy was like, TJ's mother played basketball It was so funny. But it was, it, it was great.

And they treated him Richmond treated TJ and, and still does, you know. Like, I'm a monarch for life and he's a spider for life. And I love the fact that he's, you know, he goes there, he speaks, he helps mentor kids. Look what he's done with Grant Golden, who, you know, just signed and, and is gonna play in the NBA this year. So, you know, cre you know, Jacob Gillard, they're both programs have been incredible.

I don't wanna spend any more time on that, but can you tell our listeners how, they can help the Dream Court and the Nancy Lieberman Foundation?

But I, I had a pretty, pretty tough childhood. So without the scholarship for Old Dominion from Old Dominion, and I was you know, I found out later in life the first female to get a full scholarship at odu, the Donna Doro scholarship. I thought everybody was on scholarship, on, on the women's team. I had no clue they had sliver. But, you know, live and learn, you know, Title ix. So we've sent over 90 student athletes from high school seniors to college in the last 10 years.

We have a social and racial lecture series where we go to HBCUs like four to six times a year, and we talk about issues that are on the table. Tough issues. Of the day. But it's nice to have that interaction with students and they know I look different. You know, here's this older woman who's done some stuff, but cares enough to come on your campus and be there and hear what's important to you.

Far be it for me to sit there and tell young African Americans what they should be thinking, feeling, or doing. No. Tell me what you need. Let me see how we can help. We have 115 Dream Courts that are open. We have over 5 million children a year in our programs for, for stem, for financial literacy, kids and cops programs, career readiness and, and civic engagement. We've given over $300,000 in grants to dream court sites. We were given a COPS award for five years.

From the DOJ for our work with trying to bring you know, kids and cops and communities together, we've put over 3000 basketballs in the trunks of police community cruisers. So they pop the truck trunk, they see a kid, they throw a basketball, they rebound, they talk, you know, drip, drip, poor, poor, you know, some love and kind. And you know, then when they have to go, they give the kid the basketball and they give a card.

You know, if your parents ever need us, you know, I'm officer friendly and please call. So they don't, you know, we don't want 'em to look every police officer as a adversarial. So we make sure that kids know that, you know, Michael is a dad. He, he loves the commanders. He's a Monarch fan. He's got two puppies at home and a do a girl.

And you know, we, we humanize the men and women in blue so people realize they're just, you know, they're trying to do the best that they can do and then we have to be better and we shouldn't steal and we shouldn't rob and we shouldn't beat up people we shouldn't take, you know, it's like Teach De said in the locker room after giving the guys the day. On Saturday, he goes, Guys, you have two days off. Please don't get arrested. Please don't take what's not yours.

Please don't take what you think is yours. Make sure this locker room is, there's nothing on the floor that the people that come in to clean it, they're not picking up your Gatorade bottles, your, your, you know, dirty that put your stuff in, in the laundry bin where it belongs. It's just about discipline and love and, and treating people.

You know, whether you're the janitor or somebody has to paint uniforms or a young person who hasn't had just respect for one another, and maybe we become the difference maker. And that's what my charity does. We, we bring people together. We've given, you know, over 2000 iPads to kids who you want them to be on a level playing field academically. And if you don't have technology, Right. I mean, my phone right here, it's my, it's my oxygen, it's in my hand, my smartphone all day.

We want kids to be able to have that, and I wanna be able to walk into Rucker Park and kids gimme hug and gimme high fives. I want them to know that I care and, and what I am gonna say is, you know, the politicians in this country, they can't pull me apart from my brothers and sisters. Who are black and brown and Hispanic or Asian or you know, straight or gay or trans, you can't pull me away from you.

I'm, it's just gonna pull me closer to you because I have the power to be friends with anybody I want to be. And there's so many people who are trying to pull us apart, and the negativity in our country is just horrible. And it is okay. I'm a Yankee fan. I know a lot of people don't like the Yankees. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person, It just means I, I'm loyal to my hometown team. Like people are loyal to Old Dominion or you know, to the Nationals or mad school member.

But you know, Medio mediocracy cannot rule our. And we have, we have the power. Know the power. You don't know you have, you have the power not to steal, not to rob, not to get into these fights. Just lead with love and lead with kindness and, and a belief system of, Hey, what can I do for you? And ask yourself the question, What else can I do? What else can I do for you? How can I help you? And that was Ali. That was Muhammad Ali. You know, he says there's two people in this world.

There's givers and there's takers. He taught me, well, He was my hero, my mentor, and my lifelong friend. By the grace of God, he picked me and you know, he, he said, Service to others is the rent you pay for your time here on Earth. What can I do for you? I don't want anything in return when I was poor. That's what I learned. I learned this from him because he is my hero and my idol, and that's I say to people. Don't fall into that. Somebody has this.

And it sucks in society with sometimes with social media and you see what other people have and you feel less, and that makes me feel bad because people aren't left because of material things. There's some people who don't have as much. And they're so powerful and they have great faith, and whatever your faith is, just do it and trust to the best of your ability. And that's where I am today. I, I, I always wanted to be the greatest basketball player in the world. I wanted to be the goat.

I'm not worried about the goat. I wanna be the goat of helping people, and that's why. We'll come to Old doin and that's why we're doing NIS with Pepsi and that's why we're doing Dream Courts. And that's why we've done, you know, three of these courts for Vanessa Bryant in honor of Kobe and Johnna in, in, you know, Anaheim and then his hometown of Philly. You know, life is short. Just trying to do our fair share and help people and spread positivity and, you know, I'm not stupid.

I know there's a lot of negative stuff out there. But I'm just trying to do my, my part and I'm not afraid, You know, there might be some people who are afraid. I'm not afraid to go to Norfolk State. I'm not afraid to go into an area that people say, Nancy, you shouldn't go there. I'm not afraid. Maybe somebody else is afraid, but it's not me, cuz I have friends in those areas.

And we could really use, and it doesn't have to be a lot, some have a lot, some have a little, But you know, I sure could continue to use your, your help, especially from the Monarch nation.