Ep 158: Real Life Kitchen Design with Camille Finan

done. So let's simplify the process and clear the clutter to see the blessings God has for us. I know your time is valuable. So thanks for joining me each week for a healthy dose of organization and a whole lot of motivation. Hello, hello. Welcome back to the moms organization motivation Podcast. I'm so excited to be joined today by a wonderful, I'm gonna say friend, you guys, here's the truth. We just met but we hit it off instantly. Gotta love some zoom. And I want to share a

little bit about her really, really quickly. But first I want to say hi Camille, thanks for the how are you? I'm so good. And I really so appreciate you being here because we were talking about how this crazy California weather has just been making a lot of us feel under the weather. So I told her it was cold, but I'm pushing through. She says she's a tiny cold. She looks and sounds fabulous to me. But I told her that if she needs to take sips of hot tea and you know have a

cough attack, then that's okay. That's what great editors are for as well. So, but we all feel for you Camille, I hope you feel better very soon. Thank you again for being here. Let me tell the people, the amazing listeners today who I know we're going to totally resonate with the things that you're doing in

your business. Let me tell them a little bit about you. So Camille finden is an author podcast host and CEO of kitchen remodel Rockstar and host of the ugly kitchen challenge over her 35 year span as a carpenter, she has helped over 10,000 women create their kitchen design dreams and have to tell you

about this podcast I just heard she has a few podcasts. On the kitchen sink podcast, Camille shares inspiring stories around kitchen design, planning and how to bring back the heart of the home for regular families that are left out of the expensive HG TV experience. I have to say, I kind of want to go there first,

because I am a lover of HGTV. And I really have this 5050 feeling when I watch it because I get super inspired. And then also I feel like dang, if I don't have a gajillion dollars, I don't know if I could do that. So can we start there? How do you feel about those people who were like, I really want to do this to my kitchen, but I don't know if I can afford it. And I see all these great things on TV. How do I do that? Yeah. So I mean, I love a great, you know, before and after on an HGTV show

as well. Of course, they're inspirational. But my I guess my my, you know, against the industry position is that unfortunately, most of my clients are using those as their kind of starting point, they watch those shows, they hear the prices, and they think, Oh, I can do that. And unfortunately, it's so much of it is really misleading. Like a lot of the kitchens that you're looking at are 200,000 300,000 $400,000.

And they're they're saying it cost $50,000 $60,000 It's just very, there's a lot of deceit that goes on in the industry. And I know a lot of people that work at those shows, and all the materials are donated, the appliances are donated. So when they're sharing those numbers, they're often extremely well, they're just not, they're not real at all. So a woman will come to me with a picture on Instagram or something she

snapped off of Chris loves Julia. And I'm like, Honey, that kitchen is $600,000 I can just tell right now, what the cabinets are, are like 250 and you have $40,000 So then it just leads to this big, you know, like, loss of, they're just really disappointed that the things they want are like so like, really, really expensive. So that's my thing against HGTV. Well, you know, I I wondered about that. It's interesting to

hear you really spell it out. And I hope that if people are listening today, and that wasn't something they knew before that that almost brings them comfort, because if they do get into it and feel like what is going on? Why is this happening to me? It doesn't happen like that on TV that you're comforted because this is actually real life. Yeah. And so what I do in my like in my program, the first thing I do is look at their picture and give them an actual assessment of what that actually

is. And then we say okay, what's your budget? 50 60,000 25,000 Whatever, and I go, Okay, here's what we're going to how we're going to use that to make it look like that. but you're not going to have a college $15,000 oven, you're not going to have an $8,000 hood. You're not gonna, you know, like, we're gonna make it look like that picture. But it's not, you don't have the budget for the actual items. Okay, so why

don't you try to figure out how to do that. I love Did you hear me say I feel like it's like a kitchen do like you see all these influencers hop on and say, oh for this, you know the designer here's, you know that very similar vibe without breaking the bank and I am all for a budget, especially as a professional organizer. When I go into I was sharing with you I typically am talking with busy moms of littles, and they need some relief immediately from wherever it is. We were kind of

joking. We wish you guys could have heard we joked that we needed a podcast episode for the podcast episode, because we were talking about all the behind the scenes stuff about, you know, in our business isn't just the reality of we want to help our clients, but we also have this very realistic conversation with them going in and seeing what is it that we could do right now that's going to add style or value to your home? That is not

going to have you regretting hiring me? Because I don't want to go down that path and feel like oh my gosh, it's a gajillion dollars later. And I'm still not quite where I wanted to be. You talk about that first photo that you look at? Is that a good place to start? If there's something that you really want? Do you think it's a good idea to look at places to get that inspiration? First? Is that where we start? Well, so my process, I think, I think you mentioned that I always say

never pick your colors first. And so that references is kind of like this basically don't think about the outside. First is my is what's different about me, as a cabinet maker for all this years, like I used to do that I used to pick all the colors used to pick all the outside stuff. And then I realized that watching my clients do that over and over again, and actually didn't solve any of the functionality problems. So I kind of over a period of years developed this

process called vfio, which is designed from the inside out. So we actually start with the problem solving, we look at the existing space, we look at the actual real problems, we list them, we look at all of your stuff, we do an assessment to see how much volume of stuff you have how you use it. And then we create a cabinet plan for the functionality first, then we go and pick colors, then we go and look at the inspiration for the

outside parts. So what I do is really from like the inside out. So as far as like, yes, you can get some inspirational pictures, I generally limit most of my ladies to 10. Because in 10, I can encapture you can show me what the overall basic look is you're looking for color texture, mot how modern it is or not more than that, honestly, it just becomes more difficult for you to make a decision. So I don't generally have them keep

looking for pictures. I generally have them go to like the first 10 they're drawn to, and then explain what they like out of it. And I can generally piece it together from there. That makes not better in this industry. Oh, say that, again, I stepped on always find more stuff that you love. And you'll get it'll just continue to make you dissatisfied with the choices you've already made. Yes, okay. Hotline moment more

is not better. It's so drivers talked about less is more. And I really like this concept of designing from the inside out. And you and I both know, especially again, as a professional organizer, and working with busy moms of littles, you need to make sure what's happening behind those cabinets is working for. So I really, really like this concept of designing from the inside out, I often will talk to my

clients about the outcomes they want to see. Because if your kitchen for example, same thing, if I'm helping them work on their closet space, or their kids play room, even these things need to be working with this style of the people who are living in it. If you are not a person who absolutely loves to cook and needs to have a whole bunch of shelves and needs to have space for every spice known to man and all that kind of stuff. You don't need to focus so much on all of those things.

But if that is important to you, like I would imagine you come across a lot of people who really do you enjoy cooking, and they don't want to be in their kitchen. They want to be cooking in somebody else's kitchen, because theirs isn't functional. So you definitely start with the function over the form. Yes, yeah, that's the first thing we start with because that's the thing you use every day. It's not the colors beautiful. I mean, I have a white kitchen, you have a white kitchen. I love

it. Every time I walk in, I look at her. I'm like girl, I love you. You're so cute. You make me so happy. But the reality is what actually makes me happy because I cook every day is that all of my stuff is exactly where I needed to be in the right shape. It's accessible, it's visible. It makes it effortlessly and fun for me to cook every day. And that is the function that's not the color of the front of the door front or

the handle. Well a large handle helps but that's the part that makes it feel luxurious is how Functional it is how easy it is to do the thing you want to do whether you're a baker, whether you like making huge stews and pots, whether you are, you know, love your airfryer like whatever that thing is that you do, however to make that work for you is what makes the kitchen feel luxurious. Yes. I love

that. And you're right, a good a good handle that contributes to functionality, right? We didn't do that most people do too small of handles on their kitchens. Oh, okay. You know what, let's move into this section of give us give us your tips tell us things we should consider and things we should maybe stay away from. That's just not necessary. Oh, that's a fun one. Okay, I'll talk about my two biggest pet peeves first. Okay, which are lazy Susans Lazy Susans do not work. They've never worked.

They've never worked for 50 years. If you have a lazy Susan, and you're using it, it's just because the rest of the kitchen is not designed well, it should be the absolute last space you ever think to do. I usually say like the corner just holds up the countertop. That's its whole purpose. If you're using your lazy Susan, it means you're not using other parts of the kitchen well. And then the other thing would be what's another one, um,

spices and your upper cabinets. That's another big pet peeve of mine. We make spice inserts that were really easily and inside of a drawer that you could see the labels. Spice pull outs don't work very well. Same reason you can't see the labels. They're down low. And pull outs behind doors are my biggest pet peeves because they don't work again, because a drawer does a better job of that. So that's all I don't like. I have to say my mind just blew wide open. Because I have a love affair

with Lazy Susans. First of all, I feel like they get a bad rap. Because I've never met a lazy susan in my life. All the Susan's I know, are the opposite of lazy. So I figured that's not nice. I do love. So I do a lot of organizations for pantries. And it's really funny that you just said that about a corner holds up a house because that is especially in a corner and a pantry. One of my go twos because I feel like things can

get lost. And so I so just imagined in my mind that you would talk about and even in my kitchen, which I can't take any credit for the design. But there are two areas where there are

really deep cabinets. And I have a couple of them that have been built to where you can pull the appliance around to the front to get to it. And it's very helpful for me. So could you please explain as my mind has been blown, explain why you are not a fan of the lazy season like to be able to get to an appliance easier, because they're still low and dark, and they have a very narrow opening. And those pull outs are incredibly expensive. And they typically don't work if yours has been

working. That's great, but also means you're probably not using it very much. But they get out of square, they fall off. They just they're just like one of those sorts of fancy things that designers sell to people that look they do look great in theory, like it should work, but they just don't work overtime if you cook a lot versus and the other reason is that if you have a lazy Susan, the way the cabinets built, you have to pull back the cabinets on both sides to actually have room to have

that opening. Versus if you had your cabinets go all the way to the corner, you would have more space with the cabinets left and right. And those are truly the full depth, height and front to back. Where's the Lazy Susan no matter how how how much you think you're using it. There's a ton of wasted space inside of

there. And it's down, it's dark, you're on your knees, you're pulling it out carefully, you're banging the back of the door, you're banging the sides of the cabinets, like they're just like a poor solution to actually finding a place for that appliance in a better spot. And I'd have to actually like a schematic like a drawing, you'd be like, Okay, now I understand. So you've made it work, but you're also very careful, neat

person, you're a professional organizer. Most women are rough on their kitchens, they yank stuff out, they lean on stuff their kids step on those things. I can't tell you how many times I've ripped those things out within like two months. Okay, everything you just said makes complete sense to me and I will have a big kitchen where you have space to do that. A lot of people if you don't, you cannot give up those two corner cabinets. Hey there quick reminder that now there are four ways to get

my book. If you head over to Amazon, you can search up I've got your girlfriend, why getting organized and living the small life is not a solo mission. You can now get it on the Kindle app, paperback hardcover, and the audio book is finally here. So if you've been enjoying this podcast episode, I have a feeling you might love the audiobook. Thanks so much for making it a best seller and now back to the show. There so so right I do not cook a ton with those appliances

because they are download. There is so much weight Did space that's down in those cabinets. And I also feel like you're doing that dance of like, you know, that awkward cabinet corner cabinet where you pop open and you have to be really gentle. And you're like squeezing your booty cheeks together as you're lifting it out, because you're down low and you're trying not to do you are so you've worked, you've made it work for you. You've adjusted your body for it, but that's not

what I call functionality. Okay, so here, so this is huge. So this is why we have a professional kitchen, put her together, that's your new official title for me on the show. And this is because what I do as a professional organizer is I go in and I make the existing space work. So I will make those awkward corners and things work to the best of our ability. You're so right. But here's what you have just now taught me and you're so totally right is that that wouldn't even

be there to begin with. If you were really truly utilizing the other space in your kitchen better. So okay, then what do you like? What do you do to those corners? And what like, if you do rip that out? What do you do if people are like, okay, great. Well, I have that. And maybe it's not working the best though, what do I do to it, and then also tell us the things that you absolutely think we should have in our kitchen? Well, so I have basically seven types of things that should be

in every major kitchen modern kitchen. And the biggest

solution to that is the correct size drawers, like actual drawer boxes, drawers, and the right hinges and the right slides. The sizing, I kind of created my own sizing that I over many years of because I'm making the cabinets, I can change the height of the drawer fronts and the drawer boxes. So I came up with like the optimal mix of heights that maximizes every drawer base. And so most kitchens need six as a minimum, but nine was optimal

nine of these drawers. And you can fit pretty much 90% of your whole kitchen. If you have nine drawer bases, six to nine, that are the correct sizes with a real Blum Soft Closing hinges that hold 100 slides. So under 50 pounds, you can put things in there that you would normally never put in there. crockpots air fryers, vitamin X's stacks of dinner plates, like all kinds of things. And because they're soft closing, they hold all the weight so they become like the workhorse of the kitchen. So

you're never on your knees ever again. So that's like one of the biggest transformations is that. But it's not just any drawers, it's like the right kind of drawers will transform a kitchen. Then you have that spice inserts, you take all your spices out of your upper cabinets, so they're used for the what they're supposed to be used for. And you have to see their labels, so you need them on their backs not standing upright, a day use pantry, which is like my version of a of a

modern pantry. That's not the same as a walk in pantry, which is different than maybe what you would organize by separate stuff that the family uses on a day to day basis chips, snacks, to the high frequency thing. So I created my own style of day use pantry. And that can fit within like an 18 to 20 to 24 inch width wide, but it's full height. What's another favorite, a simple cookie sheet cabinet with dividers in it so your

cookie sheets are not flat, they take a very skinny amount. Let's see, what's another one, I'm putting custom putting dividers into shallow top drawers. So you have like your utensils you use a lot separated from the stuff you don't use very often. So most people's utensil drawers have like the barbecue thing from outside and 14 spatulas and 15 knives and they only use one knife, right? Like we all use the same two to three things

over and over and over again. So my process is separating out the stuff you rarely used organizing in a different location and having the things you use close to you accessible because that's what you're washing every day, like multiple times. So and then I kind of do some fun stuff with like Tupperware for kids, right? So like, again, anybody with littles has multiple versions of like 1000 sippy cups, and 1000 miniature bowls with the little

silverware. And so those things tend to be mixed in with everybody else's stuff. So I kind of separate that and put in dividers that hold just that stuff. And that tends to really help like moms with littles because it's tough work can be like a real struggle. Oh, can it both things. One of the first things that I do when I go into a kitchen that feels overly cluttered is we talk about how many of these things are you actually using. So I really again, it goes back to that

functionality. Because here's the deal. This is the heart of the home, whether you are a major chef and you've been trained at a culinary school, or you are just trying to prep snacks and lunches for your kids. It needs to be functional. So I think immediately before you even have all the pretty stuff on the outside, it sounds like you're feeling the same

way. Let's put some things in behind the scenes that are actually going to make this function for the faint Only because you automatically just congregate there, there's

something special about breaking bread together. So whether it's your family and my kids love to do their homework on the countertop in the kitchen, as I'm yet at them, having conversations with them moving about the kitchen, because we all got to eat, even if I tapped into a local resource at the grocery, and they did the hard work for me, or you know, a place down the street that we got food from, I am still assembling it in the kitchen and plating it. And all of those

things really, really need to work well together. And it brings the family together, if you've got a decluttered space, that does not make you crazy, and it is functioning properly. So I really appreciate you really spelling these things out about what you can focus on in the kitchen. So our time is running short, which makes me want to cry, because I have so many more questions. But please do please do automatic invite. But could you please

just share all your platforms so we can follow up with you? I did talk about the kitchen sink podcast, I would love that title. Tell us more not only the podcast where we can find you and I'll make sure I put your links in the show notes. But where else might we take a look at some of the work that you've done? Yeah, so so they can go to kitchen remodel Rockstar, and that's where women can sign up to work with us and help us

design your kitchen. There's a free class on there, you can go through that and kind of learn a little bit about my process and how that works. You can go to dream underscore kitchen underscore coach, that's our Instagram account. And the podcast is the kitchen sink podcast. And we're the ones with the little yellow lemon. That's how you'll know it's our logo. There's actually quite a few Kitchen Sink podcasts. I'm the only one that talks about kitchen design.

But you'll know the little yellow lemon. And yeah, we'd love to be we have a whole group of private group of women in a Facebook group where we help them design their kitchens all over the country. And we help them put cabinets together and install cabinets and do a lot of DIY, like we're really pro women feeling empowered, and really kind of taking back the kitchen space instead of it just being like a male dominated industry. So yeah, we'd love anybody to reach out, we'd love to help. I

love these options. I know I'm going to be going down the rabbit hole, I am so excited to have met you today. And I really appreciate you, you know, blowing my mind multiple times. This is really exciting. I have to say as many kitchens as I have reorganized and redone I think I have a fresh new take on things and especially the renovation part of it as well. And just having that reality based sense of what's happening on TV and what we can actually

do in our own home. But it sounds like you know, ladies, don't be discouraged if you're listening to this and think, Okay, well, she just said it's gonna be a gajillion dollars, if I want a kitchen that works for me. No, that is not what I want you to take away, I want you to take away the fact that you can go to Camille and you can say, here's what I want, I'm not going to give you a billion pictures and have you know,

paralysis by analysis. I'm going to focus in on things that are really important for me, and I'm going to trust that she is going to lead me in the right direction to truly get this functional kitchen that I love. And of course, the beautiful part will come along with that as well and save a lot of money. That's kind of our big thing is to help help you save a lot of money. That's a big focus of what we do. Absolutely. Because we need to spend our money on lots of important things,

raising a family. As we all know, there are certainly things that come up that are unexpected. And also just the expected stuff is really stinking expensive. So to be able to save a little money in our kitchen but still have one that is working well for us and is truly the heart of the home I think is all the reasons that we need to go check out everything that you're offering. Thank you for sharing your services. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. I have been forever changed today.

Camille, truly. Thank you so much. Thank you all so much for listening. And I will talk to you next week for some more organization motivation, and probably some other conversations about kitchens these days. Now I know I'm fired up about new stuff to talk about. I look forward to having you back on Sunday to talk to us a little bit more. Camille, I hope you have a great rest of your week and feel better soon. I will thank you so much. And this was really fun. Yay. All right. Thanks so much.

You guys. Have a great day and I'll talk to you next week. Bye bye. Thanks for listening to another episode of the moms organization motivation podcast. For more resources to organize and style your busy life, head over to everything with style.com and connect with me on Instagram at everything with style mom. If this episode was helpful for you, please share it with your friends rate and review it on iTunes. That's Apple podcasts

now and let me know what you'd like to hear about next. Thanks again for listening and happy or uniting