Revenue Leadership Strategy in a Digital World with P. Cory Hogan of Lob

Hello and welcome back to the Modern CFO Podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Sesky. today i'm thrilled to be joined with the chief revenue officer of lab corey thank you so much for joining me thank you andrew great to be on so corey i wanted to get started right into this podcast with going through your personal background and landing at Lobb and explaining what Lobb is and why you're still excited to come on and share what the mission of the company is and how you got there.

Yeah, sounds great. You know, I've listened to your podcast. It's a great podcast, great series. And I think a lot of your guests refer to kind of a non-traditional background. I certainly have a little bit of a non-traditional background myself, which I guess if they're all non-traditional, we're probably all actually traditional, right? But either way, I'm not a CFO nor am I really a typical CRO either, frankly.

I'll give you kind of my story here is after a very brief time as a pre-med student and actually in college and kind of wrestling with OCHEM and realizing that route was not for me. I went the opposite direction entirely and completed my undergraduate in construction management, of all things. I became a general contractor and, believe it or not, founded a small design-built startup.

which it grew surprisingly fast. We had seven years of 100% CAGR, as we would refer to it today, although I wasn't thinking in those terms at that point, certainly. I was very young, started early. I was in kind of my mid-20s at the time. and found that construction is one sector, this was like early 2000s, was an industry really overdue for modernization, which has kind of become a career theme for me personally.

And at this firm to scale this small operating and kind of leadership team that I put together, we selected and deployed a wide variety of technologies, right? And this was kind of me being somewhat of a digital native to the technology space. We attempted to streamline every function of that company, whether it was on finance or operations, sales and marketing. We did ERP, CRM, SEO, PPC, all of these TLAs.

I think in that space at that time, the primary tech in construction was probably an F-150, maybe a cell phone. right so that that really that adoption of technology and the modernization that came with it again became kind of a career theme for me so we had we had a surprisingly great run there at that at that startup i was really just i think a lucky kid right place right time if i'm being honest and i sold that company

And then went and worked briefly for the same boutique M&A firm that represented me, Sellside, and some other closely held firms. And my plan was, Andrew, to just like... keep buying another lagging company, modernize it, inject new leadership and tech, sell it, rinse and repeat. But we got into the 2008 slump and nothing really looked enticing. A lot of SMBs were highly leveraged and frankly in rough shape, where they were in great shape, but they were not looking to exit.

So this is happening and it was a great education. And then one day I'm flying back from Kauai, which if you haven't been, like probably one of my favorite places on earth. And I hear this kind of over here, this big tech conversation on the plane. And I realized in that moment, one of those like pivotal moments we all have in our lives where.

I wanted to go and try something very different. I wanted to go and try enterprise software, work for the Fortune 100. I've been dabbling in software, I've been dabbling in the space, but I hadn't really been in with two feet. So I ended up spending kind of long story short, eight years at Oracle working everywhere from like solution engineering as I got started all the way up to some go to market leadership roles. And Oracle was.

It was a great place for a lot of reasons. They were kind enough to pay for my MBA or help pay for it, which was amazing. But really the best education I got. was helping that company modernize again kind of from an old on-prem database juggernaut right if you will to this modern cloud company

And that was a cultural change, the product change, the way we thought about recognized revenue, all of that changed. And during my time at Oracle, we acquired over $8 billion in kind of MarTech or what we call customer experience applications alone. And that's where I was very, very focused. And I found that each of those acquisitions, whether startup or public, each did something uniquely well. Sometimes it was the culture of that acquired company or it was the leadership.

ways of approaching leader engineering or product or people or the go-to-market strategy right so i really learned i say the most i've ever learned in my career honestly during that period because i got to see so many different companies coming into the oracle umbrella if you will after that i got excited about going to a smaller company like the ones that we were acquiring through a personal connection ended up at qualtrics

If you're familiar with the Qualtrics store, I helped with some of the enterprise growth on that side of the business. We were literally four days away from ringing the bell for that IPO event. SAP came in, made us an offer we couldn't refuse.

That was a little bittersweet for me because it was 100% the right thing for us to do financially as stewards of that business. At the same time, for me, that was like a step back into kind of big tech, which I had just... exited so i ended up going instead after that event to another company in that category referred to as in moment

I had been there for the last three, four years. It's a PE-backed firm. So I've done kind of the public. I've done PE-backed. I've done VC-backed. Obviously, at the moment, we're thinking about both top and bottom line, EBITDA, profitable growth, right? themes that we hear about a lot today and then concluding that i ended up where i am now as you suggested at lob where we are really kind of series c series d on that ipo track

So I want to focus on one of the first things you said for a moment. I don't think many people on their first entrepreneurial endeavor are able to have any sort of exit. And you're saying that, you know, when you were in your mid 20s. That kind of kicked off this career. So I'm kind of thinking through the different types of success and all the different roles that you've had with different types of stakeholders and different types of investors. Where did you find that?

I know you said you had a few moments that were just these realizations that you had to go attack some of these opportunities to modernize and grow businesses. But did all of this stem from that first success? Or how did you think about risk in those early days as now you're in a CD-backed firm? So still some risk in the venture-backed world.

But kind of curious is how you think about risk and how you took those early lessons of your first sale of your company into basically doing similar functions of modernizing at all of these different types of firms. Yeah, you know, I can't take too much credit again for any of that success. Right place, right time is definitely a theme here. And I think there's a lot of people who are both harder working and smarter than I am and have or have not had those types of.

events and exits in their own past i am to your point though risk loving for sure for better for worse and it sometimes it's for worse to be clear right um but i think that appetite and even that like desire to go and find increasingly risky but exciting opportunities has just always driven me whether that was like hey i'm going to start this little company

I don't know the first thing about what I'm doing here, but this sounds like a really exciting opportunity that the ambition that comes with it. The motivation has always just been part of my DNA. Like I can tell you childhood stories of like going around town and like picking up rocks, throwing them in my wagon and selling them door to door, believing that somebody would buy them. Right. I mean, it's just like that level of.

entrepreneurship and kind of ownership and accountability that comes with the risk side has just always been part of who I am. So let's take a moment to explain what Lob is and kind of the market opportunity that made you excited to join the team. Because you've been there, you've made the move relatively recently, correct? Yes, week 11.

officially i know because i've got a weekly report and i'm on my 11th now excellent so let's talk about the the marketing space in general and then kind of where lob is fitting in and uh solving and uh yeah solving the needs of the kind of fragmented marketplace of marketing automations yeah you know if you'd hit me up

even six months ago, 12 months ago, and said, you know, Corey, you know, one, do you think you'll leave your current role? And two, do you think you'll end up being in kind of the direct mail category, if you will, in the future? I would have said, absolutely not. uh it absolutely isn't where i saw myself headed but here we are and i think again just like my past this will end up being a very serendipitous and fortunate move um if you think about law right our mission

with highest levels to connect the world, as we like to say, one mailbox at a time. And the premise is like in the digital world, I think the most powerful connections can be found human to human or on the physical side even within the mailbox and you know both both modern marketers and their audiences andrew i think are getting pretty saturated with like the ubiquitous

expensive digital ads that are out there right our phones our searches our inboxes they're all full of ads to which most of us are increasingly numb and oblivious in spite of some really serious and significant investments behind them. So I think all of these modern marketing methods will clearly continue to evolve. But Lobb is finding surprising success. as we bring kind of this tech-first digital approach to the direct mail category, which is a $75 billion champ that is not going to go.

away anytime soon in spite of what might happen in the macro environment and effectively what we're doing here is replacing what we call junk mail with intelligent mail think of highly personalized content arriving at your home at the perfect moment like you have no choice but to actually open the mailbox whether you want to or not and look at all those pieces and give them at least a couple seconds of thought which is more than a lot of the

you know messages that come in our inbox like one example we work with a large leading retailer everybody knows well on

kind of what we would consider an abandoned card campaign, similar to what you might see or not see in your inbox. Leave an item unpurchased in your e-commerce shopping cart, and then tomorrow, here's this beautiful...

personalized piece in your mailbox hey andrew you know we see you're interested in this particular patio set yesterday here are three others just like it scan this qr code go hit a personalized landing page with the discount and some other options available we've curated just for you And that level of a personalized, timely, extremely relevant message.

it really gets attention, right? It gets results. And without technology and the lab approach, it would have been aspirational, but extremely difficult to pull off when you think about all of the content and the fulfillment that's required for that type of a use case. You know, it works. Our customers are seeing on average 19 times better returns than some of these other digital only marketing methods. And today law breaches one in two households. Wow.

i had to i knew there was going to be some metrics that were going to blow me away in this episode because the second i saw that you have leading investors like first round uh you know financing i knew that there was going to be such an impressive measurable roi to differentiate just relevant and timely marketing so it's pretty exciting on that note i'd love to spend a moment thinking about how you would describe what a modern cro looks like and maybe some of the characteristics that

you'd consider when you give us your personal definition of a modern CRO. I'm thinking about that mostly because I know that there's likely a conversation about culture and scaling. Typically, VC backed companies are looking or VCs are looking for their backed companies to scale pretty aggressively. The pandemic and remote and hybrid work has all thrown unique challenges into the mix of hiring and creating a really defined culture within firms.

so we'd love to kind of just hear how you think about all that yeah yeah so there's there's a great book just came out from david chili of the alexander group i think it's called like revenue growth model i say great like It'll get me going. I'm not sure it'll get everybody else going. It's not Paige Scherner in the traditional sense, but I love it. And he does a nice job, albeit a little academically, of outlining clearly the modern CRO, to your point.

is more than just a glorified VP of sales. The modern revenue team includes all of those customer-facing motions, both sales. service, marketing, the entirety of the customer experience. And that's where a lot of my background has been in that customer experience space. So it's really about revenue leadership. But that includes, he lists things like customer segmentation, the value proposition, the engagement motions, channels coverage, direct versus indirect.

organizational and job designs, sizing, deployment, talent and enablement, something we're talking a lot about here recently, metrics, quota, performance, rewards, revenue operations, all of that. I think today the modern CRO needs to master both the art and the science of a revenue system. Strategically and tactically, you have to develop that three-plus-year go-to-market vision and strategy.

and then simultaneously jump in the trenches, send that email to close the deal this month or this quarter. When we talk about the culture aspect of that, particularly in the… kind of modern remote hybrid environment or whatever this is we're all kind of going through right now.

I think one theme I'm seeing consistently is the boundaries really between professional and personal or work and home have forever been softened, right? If not entirely eliminated, destroyed, obliterated. For better or for worse. And I think as leaders, our responsibility is to provide, obviously, a safe environment, but also one that is collaborative and creative. And of course, one that promotes productive work.

you know and zoom has its limits uh we've all experienced that just as the office does too so i don't think it's one or the other and the future might be the metaverse but i don't think that's today i think for the next few years a lot of our success will be found around the edges, like in the hotel lobbies and the coffee shops and the basement offices, occasionally in the corporate office, sometimes on the balcony or the back deck.

Not to mention the co-working spaces and the conference rooms. I think it's a very shared and flexible and distributed model versus like, hey, all in or all out of the office. All that said, I think individually that puts more burden on all of us as human beings to create our own boundaries. Physically, yes, but also mentally and emotionally.

you know, without clear start and stop times or kind of work in home spaces, per se, with everything blurring together. We can work or we can play without forced interruptions. And that's not always a good thing. Transitions. like in my life, are almost non-existent. For example, like Andrew, I might finish a very, very intense, you know, kind of work negotiation call or something on Zoom, hang up, and then literally be sitting at the dinner table with my family.

less than one minute later. No transition time whatsoever. trying very unsuccessfully to be present for my family while you know that last call obviously kind of still occupies my mind and it take me 30 minutes to kind of wind down and be present for the next moment so i i think Fundamentally, the workforce and the whole workplace thing has, again, modernized and accelerated in the last 24 hours. I think that's incredibly positive, but it does require us.

as leaders and as individuals to make some adjustments. And that's more than just like better lighting and better backgrounds on our Zoom calls. I think we have to take control of our lives in a new and very proactive way or some of this change. may actually control us. Yeah, I was thinking about there is a comment that I think was Coinbase's CEO came out and just said, we're not doing politics.

at the office. I'm sorry, we're a public company. We're staying singularly focused on building out the crypto environment. It's an example of a hard line of one way that you can go. It sounds like the team at lab and what you're describing though is just a level of empathy that is just really required to lead and lead by example and putting in some of those

kind of pillars and barriers so that you can have transition time and just leading by example, by not setting up a 24 seven work environment in your basement, even though I'm sure many of us have. done that at one point over the last few years but i think it's really really great to hear from you because it demonstrates that i think it probably is best coming from the the top down coming from the c-suite uh one of the things you sort of mentioned

is that it's tricky to have transition time. I wanted to ask if it's not too personal, maybe some of the other things that have been helpful for you to manage both family life and being at a... fast-paced VC-backed firm. I think most of our listeners are highly educated, in the C-suite, likely CFOs, and I think everyone should be sharing as much advice as to how to...

you know, maintain probably the level of professionalism and work ethic. So if there's anything that's been especially helpful for you or for how you're communicating to your team about managing some of this, I think it'd be appreciated. Yeah, I think it comes down to, and I haven't got this figured out, by the way, so I welcome advice from anyone and everyone on this topic. This is a perpetual pursuit for all of us, I think, and then we get these COVID type.

curveballs thrown at us and then we have to adjust what we thought was the balance we had finally achieved right so all of that said i'm finding right now i have to be again very intentional and protective of my time as much as i love working and i truly do I think of it as something of a hobby for better or for worse. So I could work day and night and neglect some other responsibilities and duties within my own life. I have to instead be proactive.

and protect and block out that time frankly at my calendar and whether that's like hey i i'm actually gonna have lunch today you know i'm gonna take 20 minutes right and that's all it comes down to i'm gonna get away from the screen the phone i'm gonna get

some food i'm going to sit outside for a minute get some fresh air right or i'm going to make sure that this weekend Even if work trickles into the weekend, as it often does, and I don't mind, that I'm going to do at least one organized, formal or informal kind of activity with my family.

That I make sure that above all else we plan for some of that quality time together. And everybody's cadence and everybody's background is different. I do the same thing for kind of my personal exercise and hobbies too, making sure that I've actually blocked that time off.

and then i attempt to treat that with the same urgency and prioritization i would give anything else in my life professionally or personally i think that's the only way right because again the boundaries are kind of gone you don't wake up and then like start your day and i don't know exercise and eat breakfast and not think about work until you get into the office at 9am that's not how it works

uh my good dad who i love to death still calls me about 12 10 every other day almost and he's like hey corey i'm hoping i've caught you on your lunch break you know is this your lunch hour right now and i god bless my dad i've told him like 30 times dad i don't have like a traditional lunch break lunch hour that's not how

my world at least works anymore. So yeah, still figuring that out, but creating those little time blocks has worked well for me. And I know a lot of others do the same thing. I want to talk about the differences and well, the evolving demands of your role.

But maybe it'd be interesting to talk about the differences between working at public and private and private equity backed versus venture capital backed. I mean, I feel like there are slight differences when you've got different types of stakeholders. i would imagine different paces of the role and i would imagine so lob isn't your first venture-backed firm right qual qualtrics would have been

venture back before their eventual sale. But I've got to imagine that's very different than having the resources of an Oracle. Or is it similar and you're just in a smaller team within a big organization? I'm kind of curious as to what those different types of stakeholders demand on your individual role. Yeah, it's a great question.

four different chapters that startup that I referenced on my own, we refer to as upscale of whether it's Oracle, Qualtrics, Moment, or Live now. Growth has always been a consistent theme, but the way that growth has been approached. and for whom that growth has been sought after has absolutely varied uh you know my first experience as that very young founder it was all about kind of personal experience and personal lifestyle

At Oracle, as you might expect, it was 100% about shareholders and the public perspectives. As you mentioned, Qualtrics with the growth and the VC backing, we talked very much about how we're going to maintain. 40% plus year-over-year growth, X to the 20x, right? And that meant growth almost at all costs, right? Kind of in the traditional VC sense. And then at a moment, again, it was like, it's returns. It's returns for our private equity.

owners and everybody else that's part of that we thought about uh things like the rule of 40 or the rate weighted roll of 40 is one of measuring our success in that category and i actually think that's very relevant when we talk about what's happening in the market today frankly some of the current headlines can be really scary and clearly the market is evolving in 22 very rapidly right which i think is actually

short-term pain long-term gain it's a healthy correction we all agree on that but amongst all of the the fud the fear uncertainty and doubt you know you look at the numbers like global venture funding in april of this year totaled 47 billion dollars still right to put that in perspective that's down 12 from april of 21 so clearly we're down but this april still

this April's total still exceeds funding in any given month in 2020 by at least 10%. So yes, funding is cooling is one measure of kind of the health of the market and what's going on. but it is clearly not evaporating. Right. There's got to be a record amount of dry powder in the VC's hands still to deploy. So it will be interesting to see. maybe the maybe the rounds are priced a little bit more reasonably i think we've seen some pretty pretty expensive rounds for investors recently but

Maybe that correction will just look like slightly different valuations as opposed to a cool off of deal flow altogether. Yeah. I mean, if you think about the deal flow, where those valuations are going. know tomo bravo is a nice example in the public sector right now right pe obviously very active very acquisitive in 22 i think in march they deployed over 17 billion you know they bought anaplan

They bought SailPoint, right? They increased their position in user zoom. And, you know, if you talk with Orlando Bravo, he'll tell you that today's best tech companies, particularly SaaS companies like our own, have great growth fundamentals. This recurring revenue model is going to continually command probably the best multiples over the long term versus nearly all industries.

But the big but this year is the market has changed. He and others are looking for not just growth, but profitable growth. So those EBITDA multiples are the ones that are trending up today. even when all others seem to be heading down. So at LAWB, thankfully, we're in a very fortunate position. We've been careful, even conservative with our cash, with our raises, with our valuations. We're not exposed like some others might be right now.

you know we're going to continue our forward motion but that will include proper emphasis on profitable growth i think the days of like growth at all costs were probably a little excessive in some cases And frankly, I welcome the more sustainable future here. Yeah, it's really interesting. I was just talking to an investor who is kind of one of the earlier crossover funds that do both large public and private. investments and their rationality is that they just find good deals.

private investments or in the public markets, but they like to be kind of an early investor and stick with the firms through their IPOs and then even afterwards. And just think about some of the perspectives that that these investors have, I feel like there's a lot more of these large money managers moving into the pre-IPO world and competing against some of these other large VCs. It's a really interesting market development.

and still on kind of the theme of maybe a slowly merging public and private environment from an investor standpoint and maybe even some of these companies. I tend to think that there are probably probably just as much. media coverage on some of these pre-IPO companies than the small caps these days. It's a really interesting market to keep an eye on, especially as interest rates start to float around. I did want to talk about some of the great stories that you have.

about larry ellison at oracle if if that's a fun deviation from markets i mean we could speculate on interest prices all day if you wanted to but i thought that might be a fun transition yeah sure larry ellison wow you know great amazing entrepreneur you know an eccentric personality for sure but extremely impressive on so many measures

Yeah. Great Larry stories abound. So one of them he had at the time, I think like one of the largest super yachts in the world. Some of the stuff is almost embarrassing, right? Referred to as the rising sun. It was like 450 foot yacht. I think David Geffen.

uh it's floating around on it now it's like 85 rooms and there's a basketball court of course on on the deck uh because right all boats should have basketball courts on the deck and uh right and i think um there's this there was a contest where a top performer at oracle didn't happen to me that to be me that year you know got the privilege of going out on

larry's boat and floating with the boss for a few hours and shooting a little hoop so he goes out there and uh you know it's kind of playing with with old man, Larry, if you will. Right. And a well-beloved CEO, but maybe not the type of guy that you like go real hard at when you're playing ball. And so he wants to make the boss look really good. Yep. So this aspiring young man throws a basketball.

in a really awkward way on purpose to miss the shot, bounces off the rim, goes completely off the deck and into the water. And the guy is like super embarrassing. It's just like, what have I done? You know, like I ruined my chance to play a little hoop with a, with a big man. Right.

he looks at larry expecting larry to be you know pretty upset or agitated or something larry just kind of shakes his head kind of you know puts his finger out like hold on one second and no sooner does that ball hit the water than two guys on jet skis come out from behind the boat or wherever they happen to be and they grab that ball nearly the moment it hits the water and i think larry kind of implies like hey you gave these guys something to do today this is

This is great. This is their job. This is what they do all day, every day. Now, I'm sure they had other duties and responsibilities. And I think there's something like 45 people that staff that vote. But that level of, you know. excess and extravagance, which I will never see, and that's just fine with me. It's kind of indicative of the fun guy that is Larry, and I know Steve Jobs' children would refer to Larry as, you know, our rich friend.

to perspective. Just outrageous stories, but a good person and an amazing entrepreneur too. That's really cool. Thanks for sharing that. It reminds me of just a dream that I have someday of competing.

for him over some of the America's Cup sponsorships. I know that we were talking last time we spoke a little bit about sailing and you had a really unique experience and analogy that would be kind of fun to share if you're comfortable doing so i think it represents just a really unique framework for people to kind of view work and teamwork and leadership so if you're comfortable doing that that'd be great yeah so

on a sailboat and to be clear i am not a sailor not on large nor small boats but i had a friend who is and he brought me out on his boat fairly recently and we did an amazing tour around antigua and went around some of the Caribbean islands. Anyways, what I learned firsthand is where I'm kind of on the open water at a few moments is everybody has a job on the boat. Everybody has a job.

and sometimes that job might be you know the captain's role and it might be like navigating the waters and making sure we don't hit even those caribbean reefs and we've got the sails in the right position as the wind changes right Other jobs, and they're probably the jobs that I'm getting on the boat, you know, might be keeping the deck clean, making sure that the ropes and I'm sorry, they're not even called ropes.

He told me like there is no such thing as a rope on a sailboat. They all have proper names, which I don't remember. Nonetheless, like making sure that everything is in its proper place. The simple things like, you know, the cabinets are locked down so that when we get one of those big rollers, we don't lose all of our glassware or something.

um is is just as important and a really big part of making sure that that boat gets safely to its destination and then we have a lot of fun along the way and and just you know a little bit of a life lesson there i guess At the job, sometimes everybody wants to be the captain, right? And I appreciate the aspiration. That's great. We should inspire to whatever gets us going. But the best way to get there sometimes is to just know your job and do it.

Know your job and do it really, really well. And rather than like trying to tell the captain how to navigate, you know, share opinions and be helpful as necessary.

the boat actually has more success which creates more success for us personally as we know our jobs individually and we do them whatever that takes and i think i've had a good career because i've never been too good for whatever was required on the job you know call it scrappy call it not like having an ego uh certainly not perfect here but

you know if i needed to do a dirty job in those construction days and that meant as the owner of this company i'd have to go and sweep the job sites because no other contractor or team member did that i'd go sweep the job sites like whatever it took to help us be successful do your job do it well it's worked really well for me andrew yeah i really like that analogy and i think it actually makes a lot of sense that you've got that perspective given

all the different experiences you've had especially from you're starting your own company first just the amount of different types of tasks that you've got to be able to manage and then also having the perspective now in an organization that You've got a defined role and what it looks like to do it really well. So I'm going to hit you with more rapid kind of questions about things that are coming up, you know, things that you're excited about in the next 12 months to kick things off.

And then we'll go out and you can tell me what you're looking forward to with a more of a broader perspective in the next three to five years. Yeah, so short-term, at work, profitable growth, as I suggested, is the name of the game, or for a lot of SaaS startups, it's not even profitable, it's break-even growth, right, I think.

We're absolutely going to think about nearly triple-digit year-for-year growth. That's going to be our north star here as we establish and grow our very attractive recurring revenue base at LAB. But the winds have shifted back to the sailing analogies and making sure that we have an efficient business is super important to getting today's premium valuation multiples. We're not going to stop measuring and prioritizing growth.

When we think of annual recurring revenue, that's how we measure it, but we're also introducing and communicating in ways that some of our leadership have never had to, the notion of EBITDA and what that means and what that represents and how we manage a business accordingly. That's a relatively novel concept, right? For a lot of VC companies. But again, I think we're fortunate to be ahead of the curve a little bit here. When I go a little further out, like the next three to five years.

personally, professionally, on the job side. I'm at law because I'm overwhelmingly bullish about our opportunity, again, to modernize. and progressively own this $75 billion category. No company is in a better position as far as I'm concerned. Just a little bit of bias here to be the leader in this category. And I think between tech. we refer to that as the sas part right but the sas plus component like the supply chain the fulfillment sometimes a very difficult part of this business model

As we continually own and optimize that, we have every reason to achieve some really incredible scale. We're connecting the world through mailboxes in every country, all the way from design.

to delivery and you see examples of success with sas plus when you look at an amazon you look at an uber when you look at a doordash and the third parties that are involved in some of that fulfillment so really excited about our position there long term personally um you know i'm just excited to keep playing around on my backhoe uh build some more roads and trails on my little piece of property here i actually spent an hour out there early this morning night break you know

For me, outside of work, there are a few things more satisfying than just working alone for a few minutes in the woods, hands dirty, back tired, drinking some coffee, maybe listening to Motley Crue. Those are great escapes for me. Very traditional, but very rewarding too. Yeah. Well, that's great. I was just laughing to myself thinking if we've had any CFOs on the podcast who...

said profitability and SaaS company in the same sentence, just making me chuckle. Well, one of my favorite parts of the podcast and a question I ask every episode, one that is... Very interesting to me because we've got such a uniquely large breadth of types of people who come on the show is from, you know, from your vantage point and perspective, is there anything that you feel is underestimated in the world today?

How about this one? Self-regulation. Interesting. Yeah. We all get to experience negative emotions, right? Something at work or home upsets us. You know, it could be a coworker or a partner. you know a process or a project sometimes it's short-term sometimes it's long-term but the ability to personally control and manage our emotions

It's a really powerful and I think rare form of emotional intelligence. And if you show me a person who can own her triggers, her reactions, her responses, her fears to life. I'll show you someone who can own the world. I've got to say that's got to be one of the most unique answers to that question. I love that. And I feel like it probably is just as relevant at work as it is at home. So I really appreciate that.

It would be hard pressed to think of a way we could end on a higher note. I wanted to make sure that everyone had the opportunity to get in touch with you if they wanted to and how they could find out more about Lobb. Yeah, personally, hit me up on LinkedIn. It's probably the best place. Pete Corey Hogan. Obviously, lob.com, L-O-B.com is a great way to start.

Excellent. Thank you so much for joining me on The Modern CFO. Corey, I hope we can speak again soon. I'm thrilled to watch Lobb continue to grow at an amazing pace. So thank you so much for your time today. Thank you, Andrew. Absolute pleasure.