7. In Plain Sight

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Where businesses don't just grow. Find out more at Poland, your place to grow dot com We focus on the part of the internet that most people don't know about. It's called the dark web. Undercover. Web. Move in now. From the BBC World Service. Yeah. follows their shocking investigations. Yeah. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. Quick warning before we begin, this episode contains strong language.

Since when is that uh woman uh missing? 2017. My gosh. What's her name? Ruja. Her name is Ruja Ignusova. How old is she? She's thirty. She's what? Thirty-nine. Mm. Bella. I'm thinking about how I can help you, but I'm sorry, but lots of uh women that look similar, you know that. What's the background of that that she's missing? This is a very big story. It's a very strange story. She was just the face.

Get on the ground, get on the docks, get on the ports and talk to the lower level. Don't talk to people that she's probably paid off. Talk to the workers there. Talk to the people who've might have seen her in the cafes. I think she's definitely in hiding. I mean, she couldn't. I said, how sure are you that she's she could identify? He said 100% me, she knew and recognised that lady. Sorry I can't help you in that story. In that case, I'm sorry.

What sort of area is this? There are lots of people having lots of money. That's no secret. Hi, how are you? Not too bad. Not too bad. So we called up the restaurant in Athens and then we emailed them across some photos of Doctor Rouge. And they got back to us last night. Yeah. Dear Georgia, Lady in Photos seems familiar to staff. They all remember this lady with a party of six or eight. To me that what that does is prove that Alan

She was definitely there not so long ago, which means she's definitely in Europe, which means she could maybe just be still travelling around Europe. She's not leaving dyna'r hyn sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n mynd is probably in Europe. EPISODE seven, in plain sight.

We need to talk about money. Billions have been invested into OneCoin, but no one knows where they are. And there's a famous saying in journalism follow the money. Maybe it will lead us to Dr. Lovely little cottage he's got there, I can see that. He was coming down the pathway with his dog. Bullock has spent many years investigating the ways illicit money flows around the world, including in Eastern Europe. Unpicks the same. And we're gonna see if he

Can help us figure out what the hell is going on with all these billions. Hello. Hey, Georgia. Hey. Oliver is an expert on what he calls Moneyland The shadowy parallel world where complicated shell company structures and unscrupulous banks allow the super rich and criminals to hide their wealth.

A place where money seems to disappear. The US authorities estimate that four billion euros has been put into this. People are still being recruited into it, but the money has vanished. No one can get their money back and no one knows where the money is. Bloody house. I mean, it's a lot of money.

Fascinating. It's like a you used to get these in the nineties in the former Soviet Union in the Eastern Europe, these ludicrous pyramid schemes. I mean it just it broke Albania one of these. I mean Albania descended into anarchy because of a pyramid scheme.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I can't remember what year was that? I meant it was when must have been ninety six, ninety-five. I was in Macedonia at the time and I wanted to go to Albania and They'd shut the border and basically uh you know, the police had lost control of all their weapons and and just things had got real.

Because of a pyramid scheme. I mean they're incredibly powerful things. I think there's often a window in which a population who are used to trusting things, so used to trusting, say, financial institutions.

immediately exposed to a new range of financial products and there is a window in which they're vulnerable to those products. And I think you saw that one of the reasons you saw it in a big way in Eastern Europe in the nineties is because people had been essentially restricted to a single state savings bank.

And suddenly there's this bewildering array of banks and presumably they're all fine, right? Because the state saving bank had been fine and they're offering these crazy returns. And it takes people like a period of time, ten years, to say actually, you know what? It's a con job. And I suppose in a way that's repeated itself with with cryptocurrencies because, you know, look, it's a whole new thing and this is look at the return.

You know, and and no one understands the technology. In his garden overlooking rolling hills, I ask him how money can disappear. If you are rich enough and well advised enough or clever enough, you constructure your assets in such a way that they become invisible. They still exist, you can still use them to buy things, you can still use them to buy political influence in nice houses and yachts. But

when it comes from someone trying to find them, whether that's a journalist or a police officer, the assets are invisible. And so that's what Moneyland is. Moneyland is the place where these assets go. I say a conservative estimate. I mean you were talking sort of one in seven, one in eight of all the dollars in the world. are in money land other people estimate far higher you know it's a lot of money so how do you how do you make

money disappear. I mean there is an old way of doing it, which is you dig a hole in the ground and put them in a hole in the ground and then fill it up. And it worked very well. It was a very good way of making your assets disappear. But but it had the downside which is they were stuck in a hole in the ground. The good thing about Moneyland is it means you can make them disappear while also enjoying them and spending them. As if you're sufficiently well

Then all the rules go out the window anyway. Banks prepare to take risks on your behalf. You know, there are investigations into into banks, you know, significant banks. in which the the people have emailed, well listen, I think this client is worth the risk of taking it on. And once your name is removed from the ownership of assets, Then

Essentially those assets have disappeared. They have vanished. They they they're they're gone. They're in moneyland. I can't work out how you can get away with it, I suppose. Well i it it's because it's in so many interests that you do get away with it. You have a if you have a lawyer who is looking after the company on your behalf. Um that lawyer will be the person who will disperse the money to you. And they won't want to tell anyone because you're a good client.

It's all about incentives. It's not in anyone's incentives to blow the whistle on this whole thing. Occasionally whistleblowers do come along, they tend to be mad. I mean genuinely mad. You know, brave, wonderful, glorious people, but bonkers. Because this is Oh better go inside. Well you can tell the rain's coming. The changed fast. It was lovely a second ago.

How easy is it then if you're s if you're trying to move money around, how easy is it for you to do that? Well, ludicrously easy. I mean, you know, in in a very basic way, if you create a British company Uh that costs you thirteen pounds. You can do it online. It takes you about ten to twenty minutes. You have to give no proof of identity at all when you create it.

that's you've got a British company, then you use that company to open a bank account, and then once it's there, you know, you can move it around. And if the bank account is owned by a a Bahamanian company which is controlled by a Marshall Islands Trust, you know, levels of sort of sophistication which I mean, no one could cut through. Really no one.

Rouger and OneCoin's corporate structure is incredibly complicated. For example, Rouge's big house, that's the one we saw in Sophia, was owned by a company called One Property. One property was owned by another company called Rizk Limited. Risk Ltd was owned by Rouge but was then transferred to some unnamed Panamanian. But it was still managed by another company called Paragon, and Paragon was owned by another company called Artifix, which was owned by Rouge's mother, Vesca. You still with me?

And then in 2017, the ownership of Artifix was sold to an unknown man in his twenties. This is improbably. There was a company that that was given the monopoly on gas trade between Russia and Ukraine, which is literally a license to print billions of dollars, and that was controlled by a pensioner in Transylvania.

So yes, that your twenty eight year old doesn't surprise me at all. He will have signed a document saying essentially I resign. So if they try and And you know, were they to be unwise enough to court death and say, I'm gonna head off and keep this company, then you just fill in the letter of resignation and they're no longer. Literally a cutout, that's it. For several months a French journalist called Maxime Grambert tried to be a very good thing.

The corporate workings of OneCoin, and he collected as many company names and bank account details for OneCoin One Life as he could. He shared that information with us and we've brought it to show Oliver. Well, it's good to see so many British ones. Why have we got so many British companies here? British companies are the br are the companies of choice. They're very easy to set up. They look legitimate. You know, so this for example the top

This is part of our transparency agenda in this country. You're supposed this is an anti corruption thing. You're supposed to be able to find any company in the UK. We're very proud of this in this country. This is a key anti corruption tool. The problem is that that when you create this company no one checks any of the information you provide. So if you look at filing history, then you should be able to see, yeah, this is classic, look. And then nothing has happened, right? They have filed no

Financial information at all. So there are no company accounts here. So why is no one checking this or calling four million companies registered in the UK. But then look here, if you look under people

This is a new innovation that we came up with within the UK to try and so person with significant control this is the real person who owns this company. And this is supposed to be mean that you can no longer use a British company to hide behind. Let's let's have a look. Who is the person with significant control for? There you go. Click on that and that is Oh hey presto they haven't filed a person with significant control. That's illegal.

I mean this is so this is a British corporate structure. This is literally just the first one on the list. I didn't pick out a a rank. That is is an anonymous shell. That is as anonymous as anything that you can buy anywhere in the Seychelles or Nevis or the Marshall Islands of Vanuatu. You think that this is all super sophisticated. It's like how can they how can anyone be so clever to figure this out? It's it's crazy easy. Yeah.

We live in a global economy where no one is really in charge and lots of people are happy for it to remain opaque. In this global economy, if one bank or one country asks too many questions, the money just moves elsewhere. And because everything is connected, a scammer in Bulgaria can easily reach a victim in Scotland and there's not much the authorities can do. But inaction or delay by the authorities can be disastrous.

In September 2016, the Financial Conduct Authority, or FCA for short, which is responsible for regulating financial markets in the UK, issued a warning on its website. We believe consumers should be wary of dealing with OneCoin. We are concerned about the potential risk this poses to UK consumers. In around August 2017, they removed this warning from their website saying it had been up for long enough.

Good afternoon everyone. It's me, Ken Levine, coming live once again from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. OneCoin promoters at the time took this removal as proof. That the UK authorities now considered one coin a legitimate investment. The reason I'm doing this video though, it goes back to those videos when I was talking about that FCA warning that the UK has now taken down. So guys, it's no longer an assumption or if it's being updated or any of that nonsense that these

haters want you to believe. Now here we go guys. Here's the official answer. As we believe the warning has been on our website for a sufficient length of time to make consumers aware of our concerns. And it's just that simple, guys. There's the answer right from the horse's mouth. It's official. Well, we got all these other people going out there being like, one coin's banned, one coin's this, one coin's under investigation, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Well, I'm sorry, but if they still thought we were a fraudulent company, one coin, then guess what? That warning's not removed. Game over. We have discovered there were several OneCoin events in the UK after this warning was removed and lots of money was invested. We approached the FCA for a comment and we did not hear back. And it's not just the

The same week that episode one of this series was first released, the City of London police dropped their investigation into OneCoin 2. They said The companies and individuals behind OneCoin are based outside UK jurisdiction. And we've been unable to identify UK-based assets which could be used to compensate UK investors. Jen McAdam, the Scottish OneCoin investor, messaged us as soon as she heard the news. Um I've just nearly had a meltdown.

I'm devastated for all the UK victims. Where's the support? Where's the help? More folk are going to promote this. The green light for the one-coin scammers to continue. Extort more money for innocent people in the UK and nothing has been done about it. Nothing. They don't care. They don't give a shit. We approached the City of London police for comment and they said The City of London Police has concluded its investigation into suspects linked to one coin.

There was insufficient evidence to support criminal proceedings against individuals based in the UK, though the force has never specified that there have been no concerns surrounding onecoin. The force has provided assistance to foreign law enforcement partners in respect of their investigations concerning OneCoin personnel and will continue to do this.

If you believe you have been a victim of fraud in relation to OneCoin or you suspect someone of actively marketing OneCoin, please come forward and report it to ActionFraud Online.

We've been putting our claims to one coin throughout the series. One coin have told us that the Accusations have been raised by competitors, enviers, and exponents of the old financial world. Numerous proceedings already prove the accusations are completely untenable. OneCoin rejects allegation that it is a scam and state.

OneCoin verifiably fulfills all criteria of the definition of a cryptocurrency. The series will not present any truthful information and cannot be considered objective nor unbiased. OneCoin also says that allegations made against them around the world are being challenged and states, Our partners, our customers, and our lawyers are fighting successfully proceedings against OneCoin. We are sure that the vision of a new system on the basis of a fact. of financial revolution will be established.

I don't understand why th that just immediately should ring alarm bells. That yeah, I mean that that presupposes that the authorities are interested. um in investigating whether something is illegal here, which isn't a given in a lot of countries. And it also presupposes that the authorities have the bandwidth to proactively investigate in that way. And and they don't. What do you make of all this then that we've just showed you?

Yeah, it's very hard to say. I mean, you know, but the It is th this multiple usage of of disposable British companies um to own bank accounts in multiple jurisdictions is is exactly what is done in major money laundering schemes. Sounds like we're it's it's a bit hopeless though for us to actually try to get to the bottom of this. Based on everything you've been saying, I mean, zero chance of actually finding where this money is or unpicking what's really going on. This not zero chance.

The old journalistic saying doesn't work with one coin. Following the money won't lead us to Dr. Rouge. We're just chasing shadows and cardboard cutouts.

There's one place we Not really looked. And it's probably the most obvious place of all. The internet. We put so much online now, and that information can be And that's what I'm saying. Where we're going to be able to do that It took weeks of extremely boring internet research and painstakingly going back through everything we've learned so far. So we've squashed it all into four minutes. Okay. Yeah. Alan told us about a possible sighting in Athens.

This was confirmed by the restaurant, but they couldn't remember how long ago it was. Nothing, nothing. Then we contacted ports and airports in Athens and asked about boats and private jets. Provide that information. We learn at the factory in Woltenhoffen that her husband, or maybe ex husband, was in Frankfurt. That's not much.

But we started looking a bit more into it. Female speaks German, bought nineteen eighteen. But there are other search engines too. Email addresses associated with it. And some specialise in finding people. Digging up publicly available phone numbers, addresses, associates. sometimes going back for years that we've not seen before. Remember that time you entered your phone number on an obscure forum in two thousand and eleven? No? That she's used that was the internet does.

Wonder what this got doing. A church. And then all the places she could say. There's an address there for her that it thinks that she is associated with and top of the list is Frankfurt. It's a lead, but it's not enough.

Hello. Andy. Hi. But then we spoke to a cybersecurity specialist from Namibia called Andy who was familiar with the story. So i is she a so is is she alive? What is your most recent picture d uh do you have of her? We started looking through every photo of Rouge that we could find. Here we go. Look. She is with a woman. Look. She's with a mysterious woman. This is a picture of her with Rouge in February 2012. She's been friends with Rouge since long before OneCoin. There they are again in 2011.

I don't know what she knows. Then we started looking at some of her more recent posts. Look at this. Look at this. July, she is in Frankfurt, Germany. On the way to Bulgaria. And on Monday last week a cyber forensics specialist analysed the pictures. That poster there. Anyway, so from the tiny little bit, few pixels, he got the name of Park in Frankfurt. There you go, get it there. There it is. And it was very close to the addresses associated with Doctor Rouger.

It's not far. No, it's not far, is it? Why? doing in Frankfurt. And there was another clue. Hello, this is Dr. Rujai Ignatova and um I would like to share Very very personal and exciting news. Last week my little daughter was born. We found a video online of Dr. Rougea from early 2017. And uh I want to thank all of you for the support, for the great wishes, for the presents, a lot of flowers. I thought this was just another fabricated cover story. There's very little about any of this online.

But in the last couple of weeks we were told that Dr. Rougea did have a daughter, but she rarely spoke about her in public. And that the daughter She absolutely loved that daughter. Gary used to work with Rouge around the time her daughter was born. Can you imagine her being separated from her daughter then? No, I think

I think she would have been absolutely heartbroken. Do you think that if Rougea is alive, she would try to be near to where her daughter is or she'd try to see her daughter? One hundred percent. This puzzle is enough on its own. Things are pointing at the same place. I think it's just about worth a trip, yeah.

Just keep your eyes open, keep your eyes open. Armed with photos of Dr. Rouge, we take a last minute flight to Frankfurt. and drive out to a couple of places in a sleepy suburb that were associated with Rougea in our internet searches. There's not actually much to say about this place is there? Have you ever seen her? No. Sorry. An email address somehow associated with Dr. Rouge was connected to an old church here.

There's no way she can hear that knock. Finally, the organist comes out. She didn't want to be recorded, but she'd never heard of Dr. Rouge. I think I don't know why this town with this church came up as a place that's related to Rougea, but it doesn't feel like the right sort of place. We drive to another address where she used to live. We think that Dr. Rouge's friend visited a nearby park in a plush suburb of Frankfurt called Bad Homburg, so we head there.

It's really upmarket and well I can this is where our forensic security person managed to pinpoint Exactly where Rouge's friend was visiting Frankfurt. She was right here because this is what the background was, this tennis a tennis club. Looks really nice doesn't it? Back in the English. It's this woman here. No, I haven't seen her before. So she's some other pictures of her But she's not a member here? No. Hard work. No. No. No, never seen that before? No.

There's two more restaurants. So can I see? Yes, it can be a little bit. No, but this this this one is this one is Nein, Sie kenne ich nicht. Sie kenne ich nicht. Nein, kenne ich nicht. Nein. Sorry. They look like Rouge's kind of places, but after a day of fruitless searching we get back to our hotel with really nothing at all to show for it. We phone up Doctor Rouge's husband or ex-husband Bjorn, and he doesn't want to talk to us. I think even though we knew it was a long shot.

We thought we might find a trace. Yeah. But I also feel now we're up against this world that is a bit bigger than me and you sitting in a hotel room trying to Hotel room trying to locate it's so difficult, you know, you see these things online piece these clues together. And then when you get there you realise that there's so many people and I know it s sounds obvious but there's it's just

You suddenly realise you're looking for a needle in a haystack. Here's the problem with the internet as well, I think. You decide that you found the answer. And you think it's Frankfurt and then suddenly it's very easy with the internet to find ten reasons why it's Frankfurt and convince yourself that that is the answer. Do you think we were close? We might still be close. I still think this is I still think Frankfurt is a place she's been. I do. I do. I do. I'm really deflated.

In the morning, before heading back home, we have one more place to try. We think Rouge's friend may have spent some time in an extremely affluent neighborhood near to that park. The leaves are falling almost as if to make it like a movie scene, aren't they? Might do all the gardens. Hello. Hello. Where do you want to go? Well no, no. Stranger than that. We're um we're journalists.

from the BBC in London. We are trying to find a missing woman. We believe she might have been living round here. Okay, here we go. This woman here. Thank you. Couldn't it sign that it's uh uh it could be happened but I'm not sure. The biggest houses around here are they The biggest houses are on the left side of the house. You could see her here, couldn't you? Oh around here, yeah, definitely. It's a postman. Oh. Oh, hello? Are you a postman? I'm postman, yeah.

We are looking for someone. We have photos. Maybe we could show you the photos to see if you just recognise the face. Yeah, the problem is that when I'm in here in this territory I see not so many people because the people are here somehow Um how should I say? Here are the the more richer people. Yeah. And so you don't get so much in contact with it. I think this was one of the most expensive parts of the whole of Germany. Exactly, yeah. We could show you in case anyway, just you recognise her?

No. The moment I'm I'm not sure about it. No. Sometimes I deliver posts where the name is not on the uh mail. And so I I guess sometimes that people are living somewhere, just uh somehow hidden, I don't know. Her name, in case you've had a letter, is Ruja Ignatova. Say it again. Ruzha Ignatova. Ignatova Ignatov. Amen. This is yeah something.

the name Ignatov that's something that I remember somehow. Sometimes you you uh read a name and you think, okay, I I remember this somehow, yeah. I have uh When I was in the area after two or three months I knew the people by now. It's not so difficult. I knew all my customers by name, so it's somehow a kind of hobby. Yeah. This is her rush is a little bit. This is yeah, something. But I have not been alone with him.

My goodness me. He seems pretty confident that he That's that's something isn't it? That is something. It's something, it's not much, but it's something. It's not much, but it's something. We send the postman some information and ask him to email us back in the next few days if he hears anything at all. Is it really possible that Dr. Rouge is here, right in the heart of the EU? I don't know. But if Rouge is travelling around Europe, I still think Frankfurt is as good a bet as anywhere.

But I wonder whether, ever since the arrest of her brother Constantin in March 2019 and the US charges against her being made public, Rougea has gone even deeper underground. And there is one place. that she might have been able to do that even more easily than Frankfurt.

For some people, it doesn't matter where she is. Because one coin is bigger than Dr. Roucher. Camran is a UK based one coin promoter. Hello, my name's Jamie Bartlett, I'm calling from the BBC and I'm recording yes, and I'm recording this call if that's okay. Of course. Yeah, yeah. Are you still involved in promoting OneCoin? I am, yes. You are? So do you think though that if you're still selling it and there's all these allegations, do you think maybe it's a good idea to um

Stop Jamie, okay, and it's all been recorded, which is great because yeah I'm also complaining about B V C Oh and I'll be I'll be taking this further as well. Okay. Now y you tell me when you actually started investigating about one coin Did you not ever thought that let me find out what's happening about the investigation in the UK? City of London police investigated and they found nothing wrong. And your podcasting when I've listened to it

You said you were so shocked to see the offices operating, people going in and out. I was shocked. What kind of drama are you creating? Did you listen to your own voice? You have to present it in that right. Do you mean you're just my voice. Are you not a professional by calling your mother to try and, you know, understand what blockchain is? What's wrong with that?

These are all true all the allegations and everything, okay? Why don't they shut down, you know, the head office? Why don't they actually stop any of their websites? You tell If they found any evidence, okay, of money laundering and everything else, why don't they take the case to the judge and to The US. Why? Well why are they asking for the U.S.? But they are. But that is but that is But Cameron, that is what they're doing. I mean do you think that an exchange is going to go public soon?

Of course. Okay, and if it doesn't, because it hasn't so far, despite several promises that it would, if it doesn't, what will you do then? إذا لم يفعل ذلك فأني أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع أن أستطيع

I promoted one coin, truly believing in the education. Okay. In your episode you never ever mention about what kind of you know, education are these people getting. We hear this from OneCoin promoters a lot. They claim to be selling education packages, and the coins come free.

We've not brought this up so far because no investor we spoke to ever mentioned education packages. We managed to get hold of these packages, which are essentially seven PDF documents that cost tens of thousands of dollars. and found significant chunks of them are plagiarized. So what won't you I have level. I have. I've seen all I've seen them.

Not very much that I couldn't learn that wasn't already publicly available, and I don't believe people would pay one hundred and eighteen thousand euros for six or seven plagiarised PDF documents, do you? So why why do you think you have to Are you gonna answer that question? No, I'm actually answering the question. I think I've learned quite a lot from the education and I know what I've learned and I've got my Did you know that Doctor Rouge has my conviction for fraud? So far that's the same.

Yeah, there hasn't been a single case. So if this is the first, then I'm sure we'll all learn. Well I'm well I'm telling you that she does have a conviction for fraud because we checked. I'm not For now there isn't anybody Okay, with this kind of, you know, educational background. Hm. You must be a bit worried though after all these you know what the FBI's said.

Really you're the one who's gonna be more worried because when this goes to Ofcom so let's forget it. I've answered your question. I'm sure you don't have any more questions and you can now end the call. I have nothing more Cameron, I appreciate that you spoke to me, okay? I appreciate that. Thank you very much, Jamie. Thank you for answering. Okay, good goodbye. What a strange phone call.

If in the UK, with its well-resourced police force and free press, people are still openly promoting OneCoin, then what is happening right now in countries which don't enjoy the same advantages? Dr. Rouge's vision has travelled far further than Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Your mother had saved some money for a store. Yes. A maze store. And you and your father discussed it and thought you could spend the money in one coin, not mail store. Right. Kwa hivyo kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa kuwa And did your mother sp spend a lot of time saving money to get this maize store? Chikatuaru um yes. おめでとうございます

She's saying that massively she was the one here working on it mostly. She has worked for so many years and she's tired. She says that it's too much like the pain is extreme due to working hard. Does does your mother have a computer or a smartphone, anything like that? Oh no. So did she she was your mother was not able to look into this any further? Yes, she was just

going just supported because of what we told her. So she couldn't go and research this herself, she couldn't look into any of this. No no no no no. Yeah but what I remember sh she came on one coin offices for a lecture. Yes, but the lectures were in English. So, since she doesn't know much English, she was not understanding anything. But the only thing she saw, it were responsible people, people who looked money, people who looked educated.

When she saw you, she thought that maybe things are now becoming real. Becoming real? Yeah, like the money's coming. Why did she think that? If you have your mind And it's taken away from you. If you have information that it's not a good idea, you're not going to be able to do this as your mother, what what am I supposed to say? That's next week. The final episode of The Missing Crypto Queen

The Missing Crypto Queen is presented by me, Jamie Bartlett. It's written and researched by me, Jamie Bartlett, and Georgia Catt, and Georgia Catt is the producer. Philip Sellers is the And the music is by the London Bulgarian Choir and Desislava Stefanova and Phil. It is a BBC radio documentary.

To round out episode 7, I thought I'd read you a short extract from the OneCoin educational package level 2. And I'll read page 178 from Personal Finance for Dummies. By Eric Dyson. Sounds interesting. Doesn't it? Differ in what industry or line of business they're in and also in size. In the financial press, you often Capitalization. Where's the thing? And Oh that's different. This here says cap stands for capitalisation. Yeah, caps.

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