In this episode, The Court Watchers Aaron Patterson's police interview. When asked why she hosted her ex partner's family for lunch, the accused killer replies, I love them, and that she thinks Simon hated the relationship they all share. Asked if she owns a food dehydrator, she replies no.
Victoria's mushroom Mystery, the mushroom lunch that claimed three lives.
An Australian family's meal is now the center of a homicide investigation. The bizarre tragedy now grabbing global headlines. Aaron Patterson's alleged victims died after eating a family lunch she'd serve them at her home.
I cannot think of another investigation that has generated this level of media and public interest.
Four of the guests of that lunch were much loved members of this church.
Only one will ever return.
People are feeling very heavy with having lost such wonderful people.
Today, Aaron Pattison remained here inside her home continue to plead her innocence in a court room in Country Victoria, Aaron Patterson is on trial accused of using death cap mushrooms to kill.
She's pleaded not guilty to murdering three of her former in.
Laws and attempting to kill a fourth, the town's church pastor. It's up to the jurors to decide what happened when Patterson's loved ones sat down to eat. So the jury has been told that the last witness has taken the stand, and this is a homicide detective. We'll get to his evidence a little later in the episode because this is where the jury has been shown for the first time a recording of a police interview with Aaron Patterson.
Yeah, that's right. There was an almost twenty one minute long section of her police interview that was played to the jury today. They were told that it appeared to skip at times, some of it was taken out, but not to turn their minds to that and instead focus on the twenty one or minutes of interview that was played. But we had an number of witnesses that started off the evidence today before we got to this detective, Detective Steven epping Stall.
Yeah, so Sally Anne Atkinson, who people might remember from our last episode, she was still continuing her evidence on the day that we're talking about, and that meant that she was undergoing cross examination with the defense now she
is an official with the Victorian Health Department. She works in the public health side of things, and she's told the jury that her role was sort of trying to investigate where particularly the mushrooms from the lunch may have come from in case there needed to be some sort of public health response to that. Now today, when she was questioned by a Colin Mandy sc Aaron Patterson's barrister, at times, it was quite firey.
In the courtroom.
She and mister Mandy were told by Justice Biale at one point stop speaking over each other, yeah, and for her just to answer the question. She was being asked that the prosecution would re clarify anything in re examination if they needed to, and also for mister Mandy to stop speaking over the top of her. So it was quite back and forth, and she was really staunched, wasn't she on particular elements of her evidence When she.
Was Mandy challenged her quite a number of times on her memory and recollection and her notes in particular that she took following conversations that she had with Aaron Patterson in that early August time period, and she was asked repeatedly, you know, could you have heard this instead of this, or that instead of that, and she was like, no, no, no,
this is the evidence I've given. This is my memory. Yes, I have my notes here and they may not have been as extensive as what I'm sitting here telling you today and telling the jury today, but she was really adamant that her memory was her memory, and she didn't budge, she didn't accept any of Colin Colin Mandy's suggestions really of maybe something else could have happened, or maybe Aaron Patterson said a different suburb at a different time, or
explained you know, did she actually say to you on the phone to the witness that she got the mushrooms on a Friday and the witnesses seat of explaining all, well, noh, my memory, she said she got you know, majority of the three mines, so that they were really looking at these finer details of her statement and comparing that to what she was saying on the witness stand and.
As you said, to her notes and part of what was mentioned. There was this doctor Connor McDermott who'd initially made contact with her. She was really questioned on whether at any point he had said the suburb glen Waverley and she said no, definitely not Glen Waverley. She remembered it as Mount Waverley. And then also on the fact that she said initially in her evidence that what he'd relayed to her was that maybe the dried mushrooms were frozen,
she said yes that. When Colin Mandy challenged her, saying, maybe he never said that, would you accept that, she
said no, he did say they're initially frozen. But the more information came, and those other finer points that you've mentioned there included when she was being asked about whether Aaron Patterson had potentially used the mushrooms previously in a past edition, she went back and forth a number of times, which people will have heard in the last episode that she felt that it was unclear the first time she spoke to Aaron Patterson if they'd been used or not.
And she really was questioned by Colin Mandy on the fact in her notes she'd said that they'd been these mushrooms have been put away in a tupperware container. That surely that meant they hadn't been used, and she said no, My understanding was that I still wasn't quite sure. That's why I wanted to clarify that.
Yeah, and the witness said Penny. Ultimately their investigation, which went from about the first of the fourth of August twenty twenty three ended the formally ended as they tended a report about the eleventh of August twenty twenty three, and she explained on page six of this report that ultimately they found although the initial information suggested that there could be this mushroom poisoning and that may have been purchased from some Asian grocery store, their investigation established it
was highly unlikely commercial mushroom supply chains had been contaminated.
And she also said because of that there.
Was a very low risk, deemed a very low risk to public safety, and that it was confined to this lunch group.
And she was asked as well about the when she was told by Aaron Patterson in her evidence that there may have been at glen Waverley as one of the suburbs, whether she passed it on to one of the council officers who was investigating, and her evidence was yes that she had passed that on, she potentially hadn't then re followed it up, which is what Colin Mandy was asking her, But she was adamant she'd pass that on and again
that those were the findings of that report. That this investigation then from the eleventh of August was all finished with nothing else added. So the next witness to enter the courtroom was from the homicide squad. His name is Detective Sergeant Luke Farrell. Now he was wearing a navy blue suit a blue tie, and he entered the courtroom and began his evidence by standing answering most of his questions rather than sitting down. He had his hands clasped
in front of him. And what he was taken through was a search warrant that was conducted on the fifth of August at Aaron Patterson's home. And confirming the fact that he was a part of executing this search warrant.
Yeah, he said that he performed his investigative duties at that time in early August alongside a team of others, including the detective epping Stoo, who we know is the police informant who essentially is in charge of making sure
the investigation is completed or followed through with. On August five, twenty twenty three, Detective Sergeant Luke Farrell explained that he attended Aaron Patterson's home in ly and Gatha to execute a search warrant that police had obtained, and in that search warrant was items of interest for police to look for food waste, including mushrooms, food packaging, mobile phones, and electronic devices.
And he noted in his evidence that Aaron Patterson's two children were home at the time that this warrant was executed, and that he was sort of asked as part of the questioning whether that was a sensitivity that police were aware was of, and he said it certainly was, so there was a certain way they were going about this, and he was taken through that when they arrived at the home.
About eleven forty am Penny that.
There had been a conversation and he had to check his notes and sort of a transcript on this, but he confirms that, yes, there was a conversation where he spoke to Aaron Patterson and confirmed to her that two of the lunch guests had actually passed away, those being
Heather Wilkinson and Gail Patterson. And his words on the stand that her reaction to that was that she seemed surprised and that she said who died and that's when sort of more of this information was given on who these two people were and exactly what time this had happened, and what police knew at that point, because we know three lunch guests had died, but at this particular point they say they.
Were only aware of two.
So now, as his evidence continued, there was a number of still images shown up on the big screens in the courtroom, and it was explained that these were taken from a video that was taken by an investigator who was filming as they conducted this search Wererant and that showed a number of items at Aaron Patterson's home, including the kitchen cupboards and things that were in the dishwasher and those kitchen cupboards.
Yeah, so while Luke Farrell was assigned, he said as the team leader of the search, he had other officers with him, one who's in charge of photographing the items and filming the items, and another one who was in charge of female officer seeing a Constable Crawford who was recording them all in an exhibition log. And then he took the jury through the time of that search and the end. He said that search went for over about four hours, but started with and the pictures that were
shown started with some kitchen drawers. There were white kitchen drawers and they had black handles, penny, and inside it, he said, on the bottom left hand draw there was a Sunbeam manual there. He said, it was on top of two piles of documents that the rear of the files, and that was one of the first photographs will be shown.
And then as it sort of moved through these kitchen draws and this dishwasher that we mentioned as well, we could see a number of plates in the court and he was asked about these different plates.
In one of the drawers there was what appeared to be a stack.
Of darker colored plates at the back, and then a brighter white with bright colored plainbow stripes, yeah, at the front. And then in the dishwasher there also appeared to be more of these darker colored plates as well as a white plate, and then on the opposite side to that a white or light colored plate with some sort of drawing or pattern on that. And he was asked a number of questions about sort of can you see this
and what color is it? And he did note in his evidence sometimes that because of the way things were stacked, well, I can't confirm exactly what color that is or what the other side of that color is. But he went through all of these different sort of plate objects, but then also moving on to these electronic objects.
The jury was shown a number of.
Photos of a computer which they were told was a cool Master computer.
A black, quite large box.
People may not always remember if you think of a computer, you might think of a laptop, but an actual box that was shown to the jury, as well as a couple of other electronic devices.
So they were in the Sun's bedroom inside a wardrobe and the doors had been opened, and the photographs showed one of them being in that wardrobe and a couple of them where they were taken out in photographs separately. And it wasn't the only room that was searched as part of the investigation, Penny. There was also a search further of the kitchen. We know that they went into
the butler's pantry. There was some kitchen scales in there that were photographed, and then on the kitchen bench, the detective was explaining that he found a cookbook and he said it was in this particular position when he found it. Now that position was between a microwave and the stove. The pages. The book was closed, and he said he found it. There was a piece of tissue almost used as a bookmark, but it was otherwise in that closed position.
And it was then picture number nine the jury was shown where he located what he explained to the jury was a recipe of relevance.
Yeah.
Now he said that wasn't a bookmark page as such, but there was this page of beef Wellington recipe, and he said that page was spatted in cooking.
Yeah, in this particular book.
It was shown to the jury a number of photos the front sort of and then throughout the.
Recipe sort of process.
The book itself is a recipe tin eats book by Nagi Mahashi, and it is called Dinner. So they were shown this dark covered cookbook that was sitting on that kitchen bench. And then as it went through these number of other images, was the recipe for beef Wellington, and you could see a large photo of what appeared to be a cooks beef Wellington sort of cut in half so that you could see that quite a.
Medium rare meat.
There as well as then some photographic steps and some writing on different pages, and a photo as well of the top of this recipe of the beef Wellington sitting in a tin baked pastry almost plattered on top. So there were quite a few steps that were shown to the jury, and we will explain a little bit more in some of the later evidence, some of what the other detective mentioned when it came to that particular book.
But there was quite a bit of conversation as well, Penny. I know you mentioned before about the plates, but that was something that there was a bit of back and forth conversation about looking at these plates from both the prosecution and the defense when they were asking Luke Fowl about these photographs, and you mentioned earlier there was some darker colored plates on the bottom, and he later confirmed in his evidence that it was like a reddish color.
The top was a reddish color and the bottom of the plate was darker, and they were stacked vertically, some larger and some smaller. Inside that bottom shelf of the dishwasher, on the outside of those reddish colored plates was a couple of white plates, and then above the dishwasher on the kitchen bench was another couple of piles of plates as well that appeared to still have food on them and hadn't been washed.
Just yet.
And then also the witness was explaining that they found this fruit platter inside the fridge and also there was a jug of gravy. These were some of the exhibits that they were logging and taking photographs of as they walked through the house.
Yeah, and there was also a bit of questioning around the handing over of a mobile phone. So we've heard about all of these different items that were cataloged. There was another mobile phone taken from a room and a few other things, a tablet, and it was mentioned whether these different things were found in the children's rooms, and then also in a bedroom that was called bedroom too, that they believed to be Aaron Patterson's bedroom.
But this phone was a different one. Penny Yes, was right at the end of the search. Warrant Luke Farrell explained it was about three point thirty pm. We were shown actual footage of this conversation. It was video recorded and we have Aaron Patterson sitting on the left hand side of a kitchen table in the dining room area and on the right hand side was the detective and somebody was filming in the in front of them. We could see the kitchen towards the back of Aaron Patterson.
But there was a conversation that began that was asking that Luke Farrell was asking Aaron Patterson, did you have a mobile phone? Could she handed over? And we saw that in front of her on the kitchen table, Penny, it was a mobile phone in an orange case.
Yeah.
And as this video was being played to the court, and it was said through some of Luke Farrell's evidence as well, that he asked Aaron Patterson, can you hand the phone over? And she sort of appeared to say yes, and she physically handed that to him, and then he said, you know, does it have a pin code? And he said in his evidence that she gave a four digit and a six digit pin But what we could hear when we were listening to that video was two different
pins that had slightly different numbers in them. And as she handed it over, he sort of then went to access it and they were both kind of touching it and looking at it scrolling in a way at the same time as she's leaning over the table, and then she said, oh oh, and it was sort of this like bumbling moment where he then clarified through his evidence as well that he didn't actually need a pin code to get into.
This device locked.
Yeah, despite being given those two different numbers that they weren't needed at all. So that was the first time that the jury's actually seen vision where you can hear some audio of Aaron Patterson. So they were shown that video today. But as we've mentioned previously, they are later shown this police interview as well, so there'll be more
that they hear of Aaron Patterson's voice. But after he was spoken to by the prosecution, this particular homicide detective was cross examined by the defense, particularly on some of those plates in the dishwasher.
Yeah.
During his cross examination by Colin Mandy sc the witness was asked about did anybody film directly those plates, and he said no, they did not. He was asked whether or not they were an item of interest and he said yes, he was aware. He was asked again, why did police not take any photos of each of these plates,
and he said no, no, we did not. He was also asked whether or not any of the plates were seized, and he said the only plate he could recall being seized was that one from the fridge, the one that had the fruit on it. And then the questioning then went into the color of the plates again, but that was really the end of his evidence.
And then the jury was told that they were hearing from the last prosecution witness, being the informant, Detective epping Stall, and we'll be back after a short break with his evidence, including what the jury was played from this police interview. So Detective Leading Senior Constable Stephen Eppingstall took his place on the witness stand. Now he's also wearing a susan. The jury has seen him sitting in the courtroom throughout parts of this trial, often in the front row with
other police. But he took to the witness stand and again he also stood like his colleague as he delivered his evidence.
And he was.
Initially sort of asked a little bit just about who he is and his involvement in the investigation.
And what is an informant, Yeah, and that he is.
Attached to the homicide squad. And he answered his questions in a very particular way. So to set the scene, we'll start by giving you a little bit of the evidence as the court heard it. Now this is voiced by actors, but this is Detective Eppingstall and Jane Warren from the prosecution.
Now, the informant is a lead investigator, a signed to a particular investigation, Is that right?
That is correct?
Yes, responsible for directing the investigation, yes, ma'am, and responsible for compiling all evidence and producing the brief of evidence in relation to that matter.
Yes, ma'am.
Okay.
Now I want to ask you firstly about the commencement of your involvement in this matter. On one August twenty twenty three, were you rostered to work in your role at the homicide squad?
Yes, I was, ma'am.
Yes, okay.
And on that day did the homicide squad receive notification of a reported mass food poisoning event that had occurred at Gibson Street, land Gatha.
Yes, ma'am.
Now, at this point the judge intervened Justice Spiel, as we have heard him throughout the trial. He piped up with with something and he basically said to this particular witness, you don't have to say mam every time.
Yeah, he did, and there was a lot of laughter in the court room at that time. The informant smiled. We know, we've got a packed courtroom with members of the public. Everyone was smiling. Even the jury were having a bit of a giggle at this time, and he.
Sort of then said, oh, yes, And when he was asked the next question and the next sort of series of questions, he very clearly said yes. But as you're hear throughout this evidence, it is something that occasionally seems seems to slip back in in his style of answering questions. Now he was taken through the fact that he was also at this search warrant on the fifth of August that was conducted at Aaron Patterson's house with Luke Farrell.
And when he was asked again about as Luke Farrell was about Aaron Patterson being notified that two of the lunch guests had died, he said, after that detective told her that that he then actually sort of took her aside and had a little bit more of a chat with her about the fact that these two people had passed away.
You're at that point, he explained, so taking us back in the timeline a little bit of the first of August twenty twenty three, homicide got a notification of this
mass food poisoning. It was the third of August, a couple of days later that the homicide squad really took charge of the investigation, and then Epingstear was explaining that he had then by the fourth of August, received notification that Heather Wilkinson had passed away, and he got his colleagues, seeing a Constable Crawford, to start looking through bank records and phone records and alike, and he said it was at this point that a transaction of interest was identified,
and this was a bank transaction. He explained to the jury ultimately where he says the accused went to the Kunwara transfer station and they found a black dehydrator that had been deposited there, and that they also found the CCTV and a like. And then it was at six forty seven pm on the fourth of August twenty twenty three, he said he then received a notification that Gail Patterson had died. And he explained to the jury that the
homicide squad don't always investigate debts or suspicious deaths. Often they will come and help with complex cases to assist the coroner these coronial investigations, So at this point it sort of not unusual for them to get involved. But it really was that fifth of August twenty twenty three when he visited the home with this warrant and the other officer's penny, as you just mentioned that their jobs really began. Yeah.
So, as he explained through his evidence, initially they were coronial investigators is the word he used. That local sea eyes, which is local criminal investigation branches, can't always deal with some cases that the coroner might want to look at, so they were doing that. But we know that by the time of this search warrant and a little bit before that, the homicide squad had carriage of this investigation.
It was their case.
And then when this search warrant began to unfold, after he had an initial conversation with Aaron Patterson, he was taken through sort of different elements of the search and he noted that this recipe tin EAT's book had been found on the benches the jury had previously heard from Luke Farrell's evidence, and he was asked about sort of being directed to that page, and he said he and Aaron Patterson were in a different room at that time, to the kitchen, but that she had indicated that would
be a page around two hundred and fifty. Yeah, and that sure enough when they looked, they found that this was actually two hundred and fifty two was the page the recipe was on.
He was also asked quite.
A bit about how the mobile phone situation worked and how also Aaron Patterson was being sort of either supervised or not during this search warrant, and he said that pretty much all of the time during the search warrant there was always someone escorting her, but that there was a period for around twenty to thirty minutes where she was in a room of the home and they were letting her use her mobile phone, the same mobile phone he says, that was later handed over in the video
that the Juri had just seen with Luke Farrell.
Yeah, he recalled that Aaron Patterson said that she needed to talk and make arrangements for her daughter to attend ballet, and right from the start he agreed that she had this phone with her for about four hours of the police search. That was the only time he really remembered that she was left alone, but there was times when another female colleague was taking her back and forth to the bathroom.
Yeah, and that when she was left alone for that time in that room, that there was actually still a police officer, he said, outside the door while she was being allowed to sort of make those communications now.
Yes, so Jane Warren was reminding the jury and the witness, of course, that Ian Wilkinson had said that their meals, the four lunch guests were served on uniform large gray dinner plates and then the accused had a smaller orange e tan plate.
So let's hear a little bit more of the evidence.
This is the words of Detective Eppingstall Jane Warren, and you'll also hear Colin Mandy at the end.
Now, I also want to ask you about we heard evidence during the trials some time ago from Ian Wilkinson that when they had the lunch on July, their meals, that is his Heathers, dinond Gales were all served on uniform large gray dinner plates. Yes, and he said that the accused meal was served on a smaller orange e tan colored plate.
Yes.
I've heard evidence this morning that there was a video of the search warrant taken prior to the search being conducted on five August.
Yes, ma'am, you viewed that video, yes, I have yet.
And that video includes observations made throughout the accused kitchen, is that right, yes, yeah, and that includes observations made of each cupboard and each draw in the accused kitchen, it does, yes, And inside the dishwasher, yes, ma'am. And we've seen some images extracted from that video which include inside the dishwasher and inside some draws. Is that right?
Yes?
Correct?
In the remainder of that video or videos, were there any gray plates captured which matched the description of the four gray plates that Ian Wilkinson described in his evidence.
No, not that I observed.
No, did police ever recover four gray plates from the accused address?
I object to that question, your honor.
Now, after Colin Mandy made this objection, he sort of started to speak, and Justice Bill cut him off in a way and said, mister Mandy, maybe should the jury leave the room for this.
So the jury did leave.
The room, and then they later returned and the evidence continued.
Yeah.
They then were speaking a little bit more about the phone and what happened to the phone after Aaron Patterson handed it over, and the detective explained that his memory of it was he took it back to the homicide squad office and secured it in in a lock up area there that he was the only one that had control over. And after he was explaining that piece of evidence, the questioning then shifted to Aaron Patterson's police interview.
Yeah, so the jury was told by Justice Bill that this interview, the time stamps on it changed slightly, but that that is not something that they need to take into consideration, just to watch it as a piece of evidence.
And they were told this commenced at.
Four forty one pm on the fifth of August twenty twenty three, so that's just in the afternoon following this search warrants being conducted. Now, this interview, you began with a Detective epping Stall in the room along with another police officer who was referred to as a corroborator, taking some notes. And in the footage you could see Aaron Patterson. She was sort of the closest to the camera on the right hand side. It was really quite close up of the side of her face.
You could see her from the chest up Penny.
Yeah, and she was sitting with her hair down in sort of a light colored jumper answering these answering these questions and will be taking you through in the rest of this episode excerpts of what was plagued to the jury and this police interview and the voices that you'll be hearing are this detective Detective epping Stall as well as Aaron Patterson. So it began with the police officer establishing the time that it was being recorded and did Aaron Patterson understand different rights.
That she had.
She was also asked to state her full name, Penny. That was one of the first questions that she was asked. The jury was shown and she replied, Aaron Trudy Patterson.
Yeah, and she gave her date of birth, she gave her address. When she was asked, you know, have you had the opportunity to speak to a so listener, she confirmed yes that she had, and she was told by Detective epping Stall, now, the rights that you have in this interview, which include not having to answer questions, they
remain with you for the entire time. You remain with us, so that at any point she could sort of go back to this list of rights that she'd been given about consulting a solicitor and other things, and that that was all part of her right in this particular interview room at the time. But after these sort of particulars were established, it turned to why the detectives wanted to speak to her that day and we might play you
an excerpt. Now this is the words of Detective epping Stall and Aaron Patterson.
It's not their voices.
We want to discuss the deaths of Heather Wilkinson and Gail Patterson with you.
Yep.
When we were at the house, we discussed you hadn't really been kept in the loop and it came as news to you that both Gail and Heather had passed away. They all became so ill and ended up in the intensive care unit at the Dandinong Hospital and then the Austin Hospital. Following that, they had period of deterioration in their conditions and they have become so ill that their livers have failed. Don underwent a liver transplant last night. Oh,
and Heather and Gail have subsequently passed away. Ian, I don't have a current prognosis update on where he's at. We're trying to understand what made them so ill. Conversely, we're trying to understand why you're not that ill. Do you understand why we're interviewing you today?
Hm, I'm sure you understand. I've never been in a situation like this before, and I've been very very helpful with the health department during the week because I wanted to be help that side of things as much as possible, because I do want to know what happens. So I've given them as much information as they've asked for and offered up all the food and all the information about where the food came from.
I fully understand that. I must say you were very helpful at the house, helped us with the investigation, mainly the fruit platter Heather gave you and the gravy you kept, you said on advice from the Health Department, so thank you. You also pointed out a recipe book on the counter, page two hundred and fifty two, the recipe for beef Wellington, and indicated that as the recipe. Now.
From there, the discussion turned to Asian and Indian foods and we heard a little bit more from Aaron Patterson about those.
Yeah. Eppingstall was explaining in this interview that Aaron Patterson had been really helpful at the house pointing out this recipe book and I like, but he said, we didn't really see many items from an Asian or Indian grocers stores.
And she was also asked about her second house, which she has in Mount Waverley, and we heard that police had also had a search warrant for that property later that same day, and her response was, No, I'd had a big clear out of the pantry the last time she'd been at that Mount Waverley home, and you wouldn't you wouldn't really find much food that was like that there.
Yeah.
And she also when she was sort of asked about those particular types of food, she said, have looked in
my fridge sort of. When they were talking initially about this Lee and Gatha home, the conversation continued around this Mount Waverley address again and whether she was actually considering selling that property, and Detective epping Stall sort of prompted her on that, and then she started to talk about the fact that potentially she might have hoped it was somewhere that her son could stay when he went to university in a few years.
Yeah.
She confirmed that she'd studied at Monash University years earlier and had hoped that one of her children might have studied there. But she explained to the investigators that her son wanted to be a pilot and there was a possibility that they may sell that house and repurchase in a different area.
Yeah, she mentioned a sort of wanting to maybe purchase at Philip Islands to be a bit closer to where their activities were at the moment. And then the next part of the interview sort of moved again to trying to work out the investigators where the mushrooms might have actually come from, as well as asking Aaron Patterson a little bit about why she'd had these people over for lunch. Now, this is what the jury heard from the police interview. It's no one's real voice.
Obviously, we've got concerns of relation to the mushrooms and where they've come from. Is that something you've done in the past, foraging for mushrooms? No, never do you have a dehydrate or anything like that. You've described to me the relationship with your ex partner, Simon. Can you please explain why you'd have his parents and uncle and auntie over for lunch.
They've always been very good to me, and I want to maintain those relationships despite of what's happening with Simon. I love them a lot. They've always been really good to me and they've always said to me they would support me with love and emotional support even though Simon and I have separated, and I really appreciated that because my parents are both gone and my grandparents are all gone.
They're the only family that I've got. They're the only grandparents that my children have, and I want them to stay in my kids' lives. That's really important to me. I think Simon hated that I love them. Thing he's ever done to me will change the fact that they're good, decent people that have never done anything wrong by me.
Ever, while we're watching this particular interview from what the listeners have just heard, when asked about the second time if she'd ever owned a dehydrator, Aaron Patterson, there was a silence, so she sort of shook her head but didn't verbally respond. And then in the bigger sort of answer that everyone has just heard, where she's talking about her relationship to the lunch guests and to Simon and these were her family, she did seem to be.
Quite wavery in the voice at that point.
There was a lot of the audio that really couldn't we really couldn't understand today. There was a lot of inaudible parts where you could see Aaron Patterson nodding her head or at times she would sip from a cup that she had in front of her and she sort of leaned forward. There was further nods of their head and at some point her eyebrows would raise in response to some of the questions. But yeah, there certain parts
that were quite difficult to hear. Responses we couldn't quite hear, but there were there's a lot of yeses and ms that we could hear, and that continued in this next line of questioning.
So then Aaron Patterson was asked about going to Lee and Gatha Hospital, leaving the conversations that she'd had with doctor Chris Webster, and then the police came to say to her that they had found a manual for a sunbeam dehydrator in one of these draws that she was searching. So we'll go back to a little bit more of the interview here.
Do you own a dehydrator?
No, nop. I've got manuals of lots of stuff I've collected over the years.
When did you own a dehydrator?
I don't own one. When I first got a Thermo mix, I got really excited about making everything from scratch. I'd get lots of everything from scratch ingredients and I did a lot of that.
We'll bring you more from inside the court room in our next episode. Thank you for listening to this episode of Say Grace. Please press the follow button in your app to get our next episodes as soon as we publish.
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