Foraging for tasty mushrooms

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Aaron Patterson tells the jury about picking wild mushrooms, putting them in food for her children, and adding to a jar of dried mushrooms in her pantry. The accused killer crying in the witness box as she told the court she never should have sent expletive laden text messages about her in laws.

Victoria's mushroom mystery, the mushroom lunch that claimed three lives an.

Australian family's meal is now the center of a homicide investigation. For bizarre tragedy now grabbing global headlines.

Aaron Patterson's alleged victims died after eating a family lunch she'd serve them at her home. I cannot think of another investigation that has generated this level of media and public interest. Four of the guests of that lunch were much loved members of this church.

Only one will ever return.

People are feeling very heavy with having lost such wonderful people.

Today, Aaron Pattison remained here inside her home.

She's continued to plead her innocence in a courtroom in Country Victoria.

Aaron Patterson is on trial accused of using death cap mushrooms to kill She's pleaded not guilty to murdering three of her former in laws and attempting to kill a fourth, the town's church pastor. It's up to the jurors to decide what happened when Patterson's loved ones sat down to eat. Aaron Patterson has been on the stand for a number

Yeah, there was many, many, many topics that were gone through today in the hours that Aaron Patterson's on the stand. It's her second day in the witness box, and we heard towards the end of the day, specifically just before lunchtime and after lunchtime, was when questions were raised not just about her personal situation and circumstances and thoughts and feelings,

That you cooked?

Yes, Sharon, she does.

Aaron Patterson said yes.

And she also was asked a number of questions about foraging for wild mushrooms, about picking them on her property, picking them in other areas around car and Borough and surrounds.

Yeah, she gave a bit of an insight into her turbulent marriage at that time. She explained that she explained that there was a number of break ups that had

Let's hear a little bit of what Aaron Patterson said in her evidence while speaking with her barrister, Colin Mandy.

It's voiced by actors.

So after that period, shortly after that period that formal separation, how was the communication between you and Simon, Like.

In the immediate after math, you know, weeks it was difficult, as it had been at other separations, but that had only lasted a handful of weeks. We went back to just being really good friends.

Did you reflect on the reasons why the two of you had separated?

Yeah, constantly. I didn't want to be separated, but I felt there was no choice.

And what do you put the breakdown of that relationship too?

Our primary problem was if we had a disagreement or any kind of conflict, we didn't seem to be able to talk about it in a way where either of us felt heard or understood. We just would feel hurt and we really didn't know how to do that.

Well.

You said that when you separated, you maintained the friendship that you'd had before.

Yeah, we did because we continued to like, really liked each other still, it was just the living together that didn't work. Now.

Aaron Patterson was also asked about the family relationships and dynamics. She gave evidence that when that she and Simon decided to move to Victoria after they'd been living in wa with their young son, that by that time she was pregnant with their daughter, and that she moved over to Victoria and they stayed in car and borrow with don and Gail Patterson for around six weeks, after spending some time traveling over and traveling in New Zealand as well.

She said that was the time that she really enjoyed.

She said, well, while that they were staying at Donn and ga Ayle's house, they were the three of them all in the one room, and it was quite yeah, I guess, quite.

Busy in the household. She did really enjoy it.

She really enjoyed being around Gail Patterson in particular, who she told the jury was really good at sort.

Of helping her with parenthood.

Yeah, and she sort of talked through this time also about getting to know other members of the family and the part of the reason that they had moved back from wa She said was that their young child at that time really enjoyed spending time with their cousins, and they wanted that child to grow.

Up in that way.

And as she mentioned and I said before that she knew at the time that they were coming back over to Victoria that she was actually pregnant with their second child. And she went on to talk about this relationship, and she was asked sort of about how that was in the later years as she and Simon had gone through these separations. Let's hear a little bit more of Aaron Patterson's evidence while she was speaking about the broader family relationships with Don and Gail as well as Ian and Heather.

This is for by actors.

So does that mean in terms of Don Gale, you and the children continued to see them often.

Yeah, we did. We'd go to their house often for lunch with Simon. Without Simon, they would drop in and knock on my door sometimes to drop things off. They would have the children over to play and have sleepovers. They were very involved.

What about your relationship with Heather and Ian over the years. You told the jury that when you met Ian when you came back from Western Australia in twenty thirteen, did you start attending the current Borough Baptist Church.

Yeah, it would have probably been twenty Yeah, it would have been twenty thirteen. Yeah. I have a clear memory of sitting with my daughter not long after she'd been born in the pews, so it'd definitely been going by then. Yeah.

And how much contact did you have with Heather and Ian?

So I'd always have a chat with them after church if I could. You know, Ian was very popular as the pastor and always had a lot of people wanting to talk to him. But Heather would always make a point of coming to talk to me, and I saw them sometimes at Christmas gatherings, you know, that side of the family. I probably didn't get to chat with Ian so much, but Heather would always go out of her way and come and sit with me and make sure that I had company.

Now, other areas that Aaron Patterson was taken to in her evidence was also financial matters.

Now.

The jury was told through her evidence that she had been the beneficiary of an inheritance from her grandmother, that she started receiving a sort of installments of that around two thousand and seven, and that the last was in twenty fifteen.

She told the jury that commercial.

Properties had to be sold in order for that to be worked out, and she gave evidence that this allowed her and Simon to buy their first property, which was in wa without a mortgage, and then to help out his siblings as well.

They were also able to do a bit of travel international and across Australia in terms of that traveling and when they eventually moved back to Victoria, Aaron Patterson was explaining to the jury that they sold the property in Western Australia and were able to purchase property in the Gippsland area and by the end twenty fifteen, should I say that the end of their relationship, the houses were

And she was asked why.

That was, and her explanation was she really always saw it being a family home, sort of coming back together in a way, and that was the way that she was trying to cite way that she was trying to show Simon how she felt about having to use words but by using actions to show him that this is what she wanted.

Yeah, she said that was sort of she felt a tangible act by putting both their names on these properties. She felt that it showed ultimately that she would really have liked the family to come back together. But it

Now.

She was also asked.

Quite a bit about her health over the years and about particular concerns that she'd gone to a doctor about, and she was taken back to evidence that the jury has seen a number of times, which included screenshots of different sort of medical website screenshots about symptoms and diagnosis notes regarding different forms of cancer.

Yeah, it was at this point Colin Mandy asked his client point blank did you ever have cancer?

And she said no. She was also then asked if she'd ever had.

A biopsy on her arm, on her elbow, and she said no, and that's when there was more questions about her medical records, which was shown on the screen, and she was speaking the witness box about how she was feeling at that time, and she explained that she was really worried that she could have cancer, that family members had cancer. There was also discussions over whether or not it could be ams or other sorts.

Of things like that. So that was her headspace at the time.

Yeah, it will take you to a little bit of this evidence now, inn Colin Mandy is referring to some notes that he says the jury has heard before from a doctor, doctor Cassie, who was referred to a number of times in Aaron Patterson's evidence and has been referred to previously in the trial.

What was what were your symptoms? What was going on?

I'd been having a few months by then, a multitude of symptoms. I felt very fatigued. I had ongoing abdominal pain, I had chronic headaches, I put on a lot of weight in quite a short period of time, and had like my feet and my hands seemed to retain a lot of fluid. And what set me over the edge to actually go to the doctor was my wedding ring suddenly wouldn't fit, and so I took them to the local jeweler to be resized. Only a few weeks later, when I picked them up, like they like, my hands

Now the note indicates this erin Warriors ovarian cancer has been googling her symptoms. That's right, Yeah, is that what you had been doing?

I had, Yeah, I consulted doctor Google.

Were there any other reasons, apart from your own symptoms why you thought you might have avarian cancer?

Yeah, there were a few. I had a family history of it on both sides of my parents. I'd had an ovaria insist myself in about two thousand and two, and my daughter had an avarian mass when she was a baby.

And how was your daughter's averian mass identified?

So right from when she was born, I thought there was something wrong. She cried a lot, but not normal crying. I'd already had one baby by then, and I knew what to expect. She cried for a lot, for long durations that I thought demonstrated pain. I took her to a lot of doctors and even the hospital, and what they communicated to me was that I was an over anxious mother that should relax, and she's just a normal baby. How old was she so all through that period she was.

Diagnosed, diagnosed by a doctor.

Yeah, that's right. But I discovered the mass myself. So I had formed a habit of giving her a massage on her belly after a shower. It seemed to calm her down. And when I did it that day, I could feel something and so I said to someone, we've got to take it to the hospital, and that's what we did, and they still dismissed me. Even then. They said that they thought she just had a very full bladder and we should wait until she voided her bladder and it was still there.

So, in terms of that experience with her in hospital, how did that make you feel about hospitals thereafter?

It considerably damaged my faith in the health system. I didn't love hospitals before, like who does, but I didn't trust that these people knew what they were doing. I was just in a heightened state of anxiety. Ever after, it was hard enough to get her in the first place. I didn't want to lose her now.

Her barrister, Colin Mandy, took Aaron Patterson through a number of other elements as you mentioned MS, also lupus and other autoimmune disease was mentioned whether she maybe had concerns about her brain and her heart at different points in time, and Aaron Patterson said that she did. She noted in her evidence that she was quite anxious about her health, and she said that she'd lost faith in the healthcare system because of this anecdote the listeners have just heard

That's when the conversation between the two then changed to what was going on with the copair granting, the child support payments, their arrangements and alike. This was late twenty twenty two, around December twenty twenty two, when she was having these conversations with Don and Gail and Simon about what was going on with the kids and paying of school fees and things like that, and she was telling the jury that she'd grown quite frustrated with the situation.

At that point.

She was feeling angry and unheard, and she turned to her Facebook friends. In this Facebook chat with herd a little bit about she felt that those women were her cheer squad, and it was in that group that she explained that they talked about religion, life, children and the things they cooked and news events. But when she was feeling this frustration, she turned to them and she sent

Yeah, and as the listeners will have heard us talk about many times. These messages are up on the screen for the jury to read, and it's on their iPads as well, and as part of it, Colin Man DSc as. Different barristers often have have read out different parts of what's being shown on the screen, and Aaron Patterson was certainly seemed quite emotional during this time.

She was struggling to get some.

Of her words out, particularly when she was asked about this message which will go to in a moment, But she was really talking about that she wanted Don and Gail Patterson to be adjudicating in the things that were going on between her and Simon at that time. But as you'll hear, she now feels she said to the jury that that really wasn't what she should have been asking at the time. He's a little bit of the evidence as it was presented to the court.

It's no one's real voice.

Did you communicate with each other about personal things?

Yes?

And was there something that you did or everyone did? We all did, and that is personal things about your relationships.

Correct. It became a safe vent in space for all of us.

And how did it feel when you were venting in that space?

I felt heard and validated and understood.

Because when you were saying things like this, this family, I swear to God, what kind of responses, were you getting well?

I mean, and even if you include the sentence beforehand about the emojis and about the praying. I knew that the women would probably support me being annoyed about those things, and so I said to them, knowing that they would latch on and you know, like become like a cheer squad for your problem, if that makes sense.

Yes. And in terms of the communication on this online friends chat, did you regard it as private? Yeah?

It did. Yeah, it was private.

Looking at those words now, this family, I swear to God, how do you feel about it?

I wish i'd never said it. I feel very I feel ashamed for saying it, and I wish the family didn't have to hear that I said it. They didn't deserve it.

We'll take a break and when we return, we'll come back with Aaron Patterson's evidence. When she was being asked about her interest in mushrooms, now, Aaron Patterson, as again part of these Facebook messages, was asked about whether she sort of told her Facebook friends and told that through her barrister that the courts heard evidence from some of these Facebook friends that she had a real love of mushrooms, and she agreed.

That yes, she did.

She thought that these were really healthy, and she said that they were just really tasty.

It was something that she really enjoyed eating. It was an answer that she gave again and again over a certain window of this questioning. And the mother of two told the jury that she really developed this interest in mushrooms and foraging also of mushrooms Penny during the COVID pandemic, and that was around twenty twenty for those who may not remember, but it was the March or April of twenty twenty, and she was remembering.

That she would go on walks with her kids.

She want to take the kids off the screens and get them out of the house, and they would go for a walk to the nearby coral Borough Potanical Gardens, and that's where she said she first started to see mushrooms or get a bit of an interesting in them, notice them, and then that spread over the following couple of years to looking for them at a nearby rail trail and also in her own backyard. There were places that she remembered picking them.

Yeah, And throughout this evidence, the listeners will hear when Aaron Patterson is referring to different properties. There's two properties being referred to, one called Shelcott Road and one Gibson

And will take you.

To a little bit of the evidence where Aaron Patterson was being asked, particularly about this love of mushrooms and about some of the different types of mushrooms.

The jury has been.

Shown in the evidence. This is some more of Colin Mandy and Aaron Patterson. It's not their real voices.

We've seen some images of the kinds of mushrooms that are sold in shops like that. Yeah, did you buy those kinds of mushrooms?

Yeah? I did, not those black ones. I wouldn't have bought ones like them, but other ones.

Yes, And how would you use them.

I'd use them in curries or pasta dishes or soup, spaghetti.

And what did you like about the more exotic mushrooms.

It just tastes more interesting, there's more flavor.

You've talked about COVID and noticing wild mushrooms.

Yeah.

She also shared a memory Penny of watching her dog eat some mushrooms in her backyard and it was at that point she said she wanted to try and figure out what they were, to see if there was a problem or there could be a problem for her dog. And she explained that's when she started researching a little bit. She joined some mushroom Facebook groups. She said, there's Facebook groups for everything out there, but it was a couple of mushroom Facebook groups she said had a lot of posts.

Slippery jack mushroom, and she said that they were the ones that she'd actually picked in Carra and Burrough Botanical Gardens. At one point that she noted that there was often some really interesting.

Type of mushrooms. She described them there and.

She said when she had particularly picked those that she found them, that they tasted really good. And going back to when she sort of was concerned about her dog maybe eating some mushrooms, this was on this Shelcott Road property.

It's voiced by actors.

In terms of the ones that you found growing in Shelcott Road, did you identify them?

I identified the ones that were growing in the paddocks where I had the animals, yet to a degree I was confident of.

Yeah, And what did you think they were?

There were field mushrooms and horse mushrooms in those paddocks.

And did you consume them?

Yeah, eventually I did.

Yes. When you say eventually, what was the process?

I mean it was a process over several months in the lead up to it. But you know, when I got to a point where I was confident about what I thought they were, I cut a bit off one of the mushrooms, fried it up with some butter and ate it and then saw what happened.

Then what happened?

They tasted good and I didn't get.

And thereafter what did you do with the mushrooms that you found on that property?

So? If I saw mushrooms the same mushrooms growing, I would usually pick them and eat them and sometimes put them in meals.

We all ate what months did they grow in?

So are there were lots of them in autumn, tapering off a little bit to winter. Yeah.

How big was the property at Shelcott Road. I'm not sure if you've said that already.

It was three acres. It was a house block with gardens, and two paddocks for animals.

You said you put them in meals? We all ate. Does that mean you and the children?

Yeah?

How did you put them in the children's meals? What did you do?

I chopped them up very very small so they couldn't pick them out.

Now.

Aaron Patterson also was taken in her evidence to buying a dehydrator, and she told the court yes, she had bought a dehydrator in the April of twenty twenty three, and that she'd shared that news with her friends on Facebook.

She was also taken to a number.

Of photos from this particular Facebook chat and some messages about drying mushrooms at that time.

Yeah.

She said that it was yeah, April twenty twenty three that she decided to buy this dehydrator, and the reasons were she wanted to preserve both wild and store bought mushrooms, as well as potentially other foods. She was explaining to the jury that sometimes mushrooms were all always available at the supermarket at the stores.

She also noted that sometimes she wanted to preserve these wild mushrooms too, and she talked about the fact that she felt she usually would see them around the autumn of years, but that she wanted to preserve some of those mushrooms for her cooking as well.

It was at that point Penny she was asked questions about whether or not she may have picked any mushrooms or if she had picked any mushrooms in or around any oak trees. Aaron Patterson at this point, was sitting facing the jury. Her defense barrister again was on her

And she noted through this part of her evidence that when she was being asked broadly about the areas that she'd picked mushrooms and who might have seen her between this sort of twenty twenty to twenty twenty three period, she said that her children, especially during the sort of COVID lockdown periods, were with her on these walks and that they may have perhaps even pointed out some mushrooms that she picked, but she did say that she certainly

For the meal that she cooked.

She acknowledged that yes, she believed that that meal did contain death cap mushrooms, but when asked where the mushrooms for that meal had come from, she said the vast majority had come from the Woolworth the Lee and Gatha woollies, she said, and from a grocer, a Melbourne grocer. And her barrister then took her through a bit more information regarding these particular mushrooms from the grocer, and she noted

Smell was really strong, so she had.

Put them in a container and popped them away, But then she later bought that container with her back to her home in land Gatha.

Yeah, this is a little bit more about what she had to say while she was in the witness box.

You've said that you bought some mushrooms from an Asian grocer in April. Yes, was that when you were staying at Mount Waverley, Correct, And there's been some evidence about what you did with those mushrooms. What's your memory of what you did with those mushrooms?

So the day I remember that I was going to use them the day that I bought them, but they were very pungent. I didn't think that would be a great smell for what I was making, so I just put him a container and put them in the pantry at that point, and.

What happens to that container in the pantry.

So I took the container back home to Gibson Street when we went home.

After the April correct. And so you have mentioned putting some dehydrated mushrooms in a container in the pantry.

Yes.

Was that at Gibson Street.

Yes?

And you mentioned putting the Asian grosser mushrooms in a container, yes, a tupperware container, yes, which also ended up at Gibbson Street.

Correct.

Was that container from Mount Waverley in your pantry at Gibson Street when you dehydrated the mushrooms in May and June?

Yes, it was.

And the mushrooms that you dehydrated, you said you put them into a container. What container did you put them into?

Well, generally I would put them into a container that I already sort of had going with the woolies mushrooms and whatnot in there, so I will just dry them and put them in a container. And if there was no container, I'd start one, if that makes sense.

Do you have a memory of putting wild mushrooms that you dehydrated in May or June of twenty twenty three into a container which already contained other dried mushrooms.

Yes, I did do that.

Now that's all that the jury has heard from Aaron Patterson so far. Will bring you more evidence when it's presented to the court. Thank you for listening to this episode of Say Grace, Please press the follow button in your app to get our next episodes as soon as we publish.

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We'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land that this podcast was recorded on and wherever you're listening to it now.

Say Grace is created and hosted by me Penelope Lesh and me erin person.

This podcast is produced by Genevieve Rule