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Sometimes people have asked me, how did you end up supporting President Trump? In many ways, I think the campaign I'm running is not particularly partisan. However, there are realities about running for office in the US. But look, he's not on the ballot and this is a point of choice for California.
Steve Hilton, once a British political strategist, now the Trump backed Republican running for governor of California. Do you agree with his decision to go to Warneran?
Well, look, I'm just focused on this race.
You really don't think you need to or the voters of California deserve to hear you express a view on that. You're trying to be a leader of the state.
No, I understand, But there's plenty to fix and focus on in California.
From Bloomberg Weekend, this is the Mishal Husain Show. I'm Mishal Husain. Over the next few months, the US political climate is going to get even more intense as we get closer to the midterms. This November's set of elections will mark the halfway point between one presidential vote and the next, and while most of the attention will be on Congress whether the Democrats can seize control of one
or both houses. There are some fascinating contests elsewhere, and one of them is the race to be the next governor of California. Now, California is a notable Democratic leaning state, but it has had Republican governors Ronald Reagan, more recently Arnold Schwarzenegger, and this time a Republican is through to the final stage. One of two candidates on the ballot in November is Steve Hilton, and he is unusual, not least because he only became a US citizen five years ago.
He's someone whose name I've known for about twenty years because he used to be embedded in UK politics. He worked for the Conservative leader David Cameron before and after he became Prime Minister. So when I saw Steve Hilton's advance through the California governor primary, I knew I wanted to understand it, and I reached out to him. His rival in November is Democrat Javier Bessera, someone who used
to work for Joe Biden. And California is such an important place economically in global as well as US terms, that this conversation does go beyond state matters above all. I hope that through it you get a much better sense of a man who wants to be California's next leader.
How are you doing great?
Thank you for saying yes to my email out of the blue. How are you most importantly good?
Thanks? Onto the next round?
Well, yeah, I know, absolutely, Well stop next round of interviews, or next round of the campaign, the.
Campaign, the next fight, you know, like there's no break. We got to keep going. There's not much time now.
Well, look, we'll talk about all of that. And it's clearly it's been a remarkable few weeks for you. And you've obviously been involved in politics for a long time. You've been a strategist, you've been a political aid, you've been a commentator on Fox News. I'm still curious about the moment when you decided to run for office yourself, because that's a very big decision to make.
I don't think there was one one specific moment, but there was a period of time that I can recall. As you mentioned, i'd been a host on television, a most unexpected turn in my career in media. I greatly enjoyed that, but as the years went on, I felt that I wanted to get back into actually doing things rather than just talking about things. I love California, been living here since twenty twelve, raised my family here, started
a business here. I could see that things were going off the rails pretty badly from a policy point of view, so I started a policy organization, Golden Together, started working on some of our big problems in California. I then started engaging with Sacramento trying to advance those policy ideas
through the legislature. And that was the point where I realized just how dysfunctional and broken California's system of government is, because every single meeting I had with legislators, Democrats, Republicans, it was the same story. Yes, you're right, these policies you're advocating would make a huge difference. We'd get more housing built, we'd lower the cost. All those things are true. However, it can never happen because the unions won't allow it,
the climate activists won't allow it. The system just can't make it happen. And I just realized then that something has to change otherwise I love it is just going to continue to decline.
Yeah, it's the state you've made your home in the country that you've made your home having left the UK. And we're going to dig into all of this and the nuts and bolts of your campaign in a moment, but I just want to understand you more broadly. To start with, would you say that being on Fox, having that kind of prominence on TV, that's got to have played an important role in rising in the Republican Party?
Right it?
Donald Trump, it helped his rise because he was known from television and he was a fan of your show on Fox.
I think that's right that it gives you a platform. But I think it's that combination actually of media experience, policy and government experience and business experience that actually is a good fit for this role, not only running for governor, but as I planned to be being the next governor.
But when did you actually become a Republican because twenty seventeen you were very clearly saying you weren't partisan, and you were you were neither Democrat or Republican.
Well, it's interesting in many ways. I think the campaign I'm running is not particularly partisan. It's based on some broad, common sense principles that I think most people can get behind. So I've never thought of myself as a particularly partisan person. However,
there are realities about running for office. In the US, it's basically a two party system, and of course I identify very much with the principles that underlie the Republican Party, just as I do the Conservative Party, where I work for some years and was part of a coalition government led by Conservative Prime Minister. The basic ideas that you would associate with the center right are ideas that I share in terms of limiting the role of government, enhancing
individual freedom. Those sorts of things have always been part of my political philosophy and therefore connect very much with the Republican Party here in America.
I of course remember you from your time in the UK working for David Cameron before he got elected. After he became Prime minister. You were part of that effort to detoxify the Conservative Party, to make it more electable, bring it into more of the center ground, more socially liberal, more climate conscious. Are you still the same guy who did that?
Oh, very much, very much. I understand that some people who haven't been following the intervening years may look at that and say, well, it's very different. David Cameron's a very different personality to the president, who's the leader of the Republican Party in America today. I can see that
very clearly. But everyone has their own personal style. But the ideas that really drove that process of change for the Conservative Party, in particular, focusing on people who've been left behind, on dealing with poverty and inequality, on helping working people, that was a really big part of the work that we did twenty years or so ago with the Conservative Party. And that's a big driver of what I'm really arguing for here. And there's many other similarities
as well. I think perhaps the broadest one is a sense that I've always had, which is a sense that we need to put power in people's hands and enable them to fight back against establishments or systems or centralized power that benefits a small group rather than the majority of people. That's always been a really dry and important driving force.
Yeah, but what you did for David Cameron, the person who you still say you are, that is very, very far from not only Donald Trump himself, but MAGA And I just wonder how you reconcile that, because you are endorsed by President Trump himself, what you're representing yourself as is I think more than Arnold Schwarzenegger wing of the Republican Party in California, and he's someone who endors Kamla Harris in the last presidential election.
I don't think that the box is a quite as neat and defined as that. I'm endorsed by many different kinds of Republicans. Of course, political parties are coalitions, and as I say, I think this campaign everything I'm arguing for it's not particularly partisan. The fact that we've got Democrats supporting the campaign is an example of that. And I think that what I've always tried to focus on
is really the substance the ideas specific things. I'm a pragmatic candidate in this race, not an ideologue that the arguments I'm making about how we need to turn California around. We've got the highest cost of living by far. I'm not sure it's appreciated around the world because you look at the headline for California with the fourth biggest economy, and there's a sense of complacency there on the part
of the current leadership. They keep saying that as if that answers all questions underneath that this is a state that's in real trouble, especially from an economic point of view, and the solutions there actually go across party lines. They're just practical things to make life easier for families and businesses. So I think this whole conversation around you know, labels and whatever doesn't really get to the point about what is needed in order to help California get back on track.
Okay, but I don't think you can bat away being the fourth largest economy in the world quite so likely. This happened last year it was the fifth largest. Then California overtook Japan under Gavin Newsom. It doesn't feel like a failure to many people in the state, I would suspect, and certainly to people outside.
Well, I think it does to many people inside, because they're struggling to even live. That's why during Gavin Newsom's tenure as governor, nearly two million Californians have actually moved out because they can't live here anymore because it's so expensive. Let's just look at that number. The fourth biggest economy in the world that's driven by two things that don't actually tell a story of health in terms of our economy. Partly, it's driven by very small number of tech companies fantastic
success stories, which I strongly support. I'm very proud of the fact that we're leading the AI revolution in California. They generate enormous amounts of revenue, but not very many jobs. The second part of the story in terms of the size of our economy is that it includes the size of government. They've doubled the budget of the state of
California in the last ten years or so. Meanwhile, the results on every measure education standards, the quality of our infrastructure, the highest unemployment rate of all fifty states, the highest poverty rate of all fifty states, tied with Louisiana. I think if we don't change direction this year, California really
is heading for economic disaster. I've heard from so many business leaders that they're waiting to see what happens in November, and if we don't vote for change in California, they're out And the exodus of businesses in California that you've seen in the last few years could turn into a stampede.
So if California is doing that badly, I want to put two other points too. One is whether you think there is something longer term going on that is affecting the poorest in California and elsewhere, and that is a long term decline in living standards that's happened over the course of the last fifty years. So it's not about the Democrats ruling California now. It is about something more systemic that reflects poorly on American leadership for decades.
Well, I agree with you. Actually, sometimes people have asked me, how are you going back to your earlier conversation, how did you end up supporting President Trump? I do remember back in twenty fifteen, I for the first time saw this chart based on US data. This is going back ten years now, eleven years, showing the earnings of the
majority of workers in California. I think the technical term was non managerial, non supervisory workers roughly eighty percent of the workforce after inflation, and it's basically a straight line, just flat so through a Republican and Democrat governance in fifty years since nineteen seventy four. I think it was basically the economic.
Position of the most stated Nobel Prize winning economist has done the seminal work on that, and I don't know if those are the figures you're referring to, but he's absolutely laid this out for the last fifty years. But that's exactly why I think the challenge is much broader than the political points you're making. It is one about choices that America's leaders have made, right.
I agree with that, and I think that there needs to be a much bigger emphasis on the gap between the very top and the super rich and so on. Of course that's been in the news with the SPACEXIPO and so on. I think the real issue is the fact that you've got so many people in the lower end of the income scales who just feel stuck and that social mobility has gone. I think that's absolutely a
broad point. However, within that, one of the great things about America and our system here that you've got this experiment in policy making through the federal system, the fact you've got fifty states that do things a different way, and even within that overall framework, which I agree needs
serious reform, some states are doing better than others. And you can see it in the fact that people and businesses are leaving California and moving to states with more welcoming policies to business and where the cost of living is much lower Texas, Florida, Tennessee. Even our neighboring states Nevada. You've got a lot of evidence now that the high tax, high spending, progressive model of governance that you see in the Blue States as they're known, like California, like New York,
is not working. We've had sixteen years of one party rule in California, where one party's controlled everything. There's really been no barrier to the democratic philosophy being implemented fully in California. The results are among the worst in the country.
But you know, on people leave. There's an aspect of this on which you could agree with Gavin Newsom, which is that he is trying to stop the wealth tax on billionaires that's been proposed by one of the labor unions. He's determined to try and stop it because he thinks it will drive more people away. So area of agreement, yes, between.
Very very although I have to say, given his close relationship with the unions, I would have hoped he would have acted sooner to stop that even becoming a consideration. For example, right now, there's a process going on in Sacramento, very typical. It's going to a horse trading process where it's possibly one that the union itself will take it off the ballot now because they're negotiating some other kind of agreements that could have been done a year ago.
He's working on this, that's the point.
No, I agree with that, But as often with Gavin Newsom, a little bit more attention and focus earlier would have worked. Wonders.
Okay, The other point I wanted to put to you about your econom critique of California is a question really about whether the policies of the federal government are playing a role in making life more unaffordable for Californians.
Well, it's certainly true that there which examples you're thinking of?
Particularly, I'm wondering, Well, let's take tariffs for starters and their impact on the cost of some goods.
Well, I think that if you look at the detail on that, it's nothing like as significant. We have the highest grocery prices, for example, in the country. The main drivers of that of policies made in California. Energy cost the highest in the country, The labor and environmental regulations that make operating here so expensive.
Can I give you others? This is Bloomberg analysis from earlier in the year that the jumps in the prices of children's clothing tools, outdoor equipment, furniture, bedding, motor vehicle parts. All of this is linked to tariff policy and trade. See that the administration brought in last year.
Yeah, but if you basically look at where we settled on tariffs in terms of the percentage rates, and then you and you look at the way that the international trading system has worked for a long time before the tariffs,
it is a leveling of the system. And I think that the impulse that drove that policy is absolutely correct, which is that there hasn't been fairness most other countries, most of America's trading partners, for example, have a value added tax, which distorts the picture in terms of imports and exports.
It favors Okay, so you support do you support the imposition of tariffs?
Well, it's not a California state policy. So I try and avoid weighing in on policies where there aren't really the subject of this campaign. I mean, I can give you a general observation that I think it was important to try and do something to bring manufacturing back to the US, and that's happening. Unfortunately, it's not happening for California.
Okay, I remember, I remember I mean, I've read you talking about global and supporting globalization, So is your view completely changed on that because that was something that you used to say you believed in. Well, the globalization was a force for good and a force that created wealth rather than lifted.
Yeah. Right, but you've got to nothing is all good or all bad. I mean, I think that the point about policy generally about in all sorts of areas, it's about trade offs. And of course it's true that over the years that we've seen the globalization of trade and so on, it's in tremendous advances in economic opportunity in some parts of the world, and that's a good thing, obviously,
I think anyone would support that. But at the same time, partly because of this sometimes the speed of transition, Partly sometimes because the concentrated effects of a transition, places have really lost out and suffered. And so the policy goal is to try and keep as much of the positive while alleviating the negative. And I always bring it back because I am running now for governor of California. What
does it mean in California? Going back to the AI companies, You look at Nvidia Andthropic, these big companies making major investments in the US, none of them in California. The job creation that's coming from the AI boom in America is happening outside of the home state of those companies. That's something I want to change so we get the full stack as I describe it, of AI jobs in California.
So I do want to ask you about your attitude to big tech, because I remember you being really critical of these companies' Facebook as it was then Amazon and Google, talking about their dominant position, how you'd like the kind of framework where if they became too dominant in the market, then you'd want them to be treated as a monopoly, that you'd want maximum pay rates for senior execut Have
you changed your mind? And at that time you were talking about regulation of big tech being really important to you, And now I'm trying that kind of thing in your in your set of policies.
I've changed my job, which is now running for governor. As I plan to be governor, my job, my responsibility.
And does that mean you can't afford to take on big tech?
If I just finished this at the point, which is that it's my responsibility will be to support every business in California to help them grow, so we create jobs and wealth and opportunity in our state. So, regardless of my personal opinions about this or that company, I see it as the responsibility of the governor of any state to stand up for the people and the businesses, small business, medium sized, big global corporations, whatever it is, that is my responsibility.
So what is your personal opinion of big tech.
Well, I think that, like we were just talking about, in other areas, tremendous advances and change people's lives in a positive way. I'm usually proud of the tech sector and the fact that it's that we're leading and dominating once again in this new wave of innovation. That's fantastic and I'm proud of that. But as with everything, you know, there's positives and downsides, and the goal of policy makers should be to be really careful about not kind of
leaping into trying to fix things. There really is a danger of over correcting and having unintended consequences. I think that's the skill of governance, and I think that when you look at tech, of course it's had positive transformation effects. I remember, people are choosing to use this technology. No one's forcing it on anyone. People are using it because they find it helpful, and businesses are using it because they find it helpful. I don't want to stand in the way of that.
Yeah, And I do understand, of course that you're doing a different now, and running for office is different to being a commentator and having much more freedom when you can say. But there is also a question of belief and core principles. And you clearly felt strongly and thought a lot about tech, not least because you've spent so many years, you know, seeing it up close and living in California. So do you not have any concerns today
about the dominance of these companies in our lives. They're a key part of the stock market, a lot of American wealth is wrapped up in them. They're at the forefront of AI, which will change, if not destroy many jobs. Like have those one things gone away? Or you just can't talk about them anymore?
No, No, I think that. Well, first of we'll not just observed. I started and ran a tech company. I taught at Stanford University. So I absolutely agree with you that you've seen you're seeing companies with a huge transformational effect. But that's new and it's what innovation is We've got
to be careful about what happens. That's what that's my attitude to the whole question of the impact of technology on society is to just be very open about what's going on, but not necessarily think that we as speaking now as someone who's running for office, has has the ability to really drive a change without causing unintended consequences. Right now, for example, on AI, you've got major disagreement about what's happening, even within the leaders of the sector. No one really knows.
What do you think is going to be your biggest hurdle in this race in the next few months.
Well, I think it's actually a belief that we can turn the desire for change. There's no question that California wants change. Every single piece of data you look at shows that there's a clear majority of people who think that we're on the wrong track and that we need to change direction. Now, what you've got to do is close that gap between the desire of people for change and actually voting for it by doing something that they haven't done in sufficient numbers in recent years, which is
actually voting Republican. And so my job is to say, look, I'm running a someone with a positive, pragmatic plan which for very specific benefits that will help you in your life. Three dollar gas, cut your electric bills in half, your first one hundred and fifty grand, tax free starter homes for young people so they can afford to buy a home in California. These are positive, practical and my job is to get out there and show people how it
can be done, and then I think will win. I'm very confident of that.
You're going to need to have Democrats vote for you, essentially.
Absolutely. I mean, it's a clear requirement that given the numbers that you've seen in recent years. Of course, it's true that democrats and independents as it's called in California no party preference voters need to join our movement for change. They already are. I mean, we've been doing events up and down the state for a year now. Town holds hundreds of events, thousands and thousands of people now have
come out. Many times, people come along, they're open to everybody, and many times someone would stand up and say, I'm a Democrat. I've never been to a Republican event before. I voted for Kamala Harris. But something's got to change in California. You're already seeing that happen.
I just wonder if that gets more difficult from this point on. Because President Trump's popularity has declined. He's endorsed your ticket, You've thanked him for that. You are asking people who often will not like him at all and will feel harmed by some of his economic policies, or who are angry at the war in Iran to vote for you.
No, I understand that, but look, he's not on the ballot, and this is a point of choice for California. Do we keep going in the same direction we've had for the last sixteen years, or do we want to make a choice to go in a new direction. You mentioned the war, the Iran war. Of course, that's lifted up gas prices right across the country. But they are two dollars a gallon higher in California than anywhere else today. Seeing around the country that people are complaining about as
being incredibly high. We would have welcomed that in California before the war, because they're way lower than we had imposed here. President Trump is president in all these other states that have far lower cost of living. Gas price is, electric bills, housing costs, you name it, and so it's clearly not his policies, it's California policies that are the problem here.
Do you agree with the Iran war, his decision to go to war in Iran?
Well, look, I'm just focused on this race. I'm really not a commentator on every political issue right now. There's there's plenty to fix in California. That's my focus.
You really don't think you need to or the voters of California deserve to hear, can impress a view on that, That's not the point is just to know where you where you stand on it. You're going to be a leader of the state.
No, I understand, I understand. But then there's plenty to fix and focus on in California. And as I said, I'm not a political commentator. I can give you my my very strong view that it's completely dangerous for the whole world for Iran to have a nuclear and I think the basis for that is something that's broadly shared across all political parties. That's why leaders of all kinds have been trying to deal with this situation for many,
many years. I've also expressed a strong belief that you know, remember, my parents are Hungarian they fled communism in Hungary. I've always believed that the way in which the Iranian people have stood up to this brutal authoritarian regime something that we should support. So just as you know, see you take the side of people trying to overthrow oppression. Generally, that's something, of course I believe in that. That doesn't mean that I've spent any time looking at the specific
details of the implementation of this all that policy. I'm one hundred percent focused on California.
You know how President Trump is talking about the regime members. Now, who do you US is dealing with rational, smart, strong, not radicalized. It's the same regime and that's the way he's referring to them.
Now, Look, I'm as I said, I'm just not I actually hadn't even heard those comments. Truly. It's a big state. I'm on the road from morning till night, up and down the state making our case, and I'm just not focused on anything other than California right now.
Okay, Well, then you mentioned your parents and then fleeing communism, and I can imagine that that experience, you know, clearly formative for them, formative for you as well. Growing up. I guess, is it part of why you became a conservative because you were not going to grow up to be someone on the left of the political spectrum.
Ever, I think that's probably part of it. One of my earliest political memories is in the Yuka was born in the UK. Both my parents are Hungary and also my stepfather's hungar and my parents split up when I was young. My dad went back to Hungary. My stepfather's Hungarian also someone who's actually fled ran across the border with Austria and ended up in a refugee camp, and like so many working class immigrants, he had a massive appreciation for the opportunities of being in a free country.
I grew up in a regular working class immigrant home. He worked construction, he was a builder, as you'd say
in England. And I'd really remember very strongly around the early eighties late, you know, when Mark Margaret Thatcher had come been elected, this sense that she was for the workers, she was for working people and people who wanted to in the word that became very commonly associated with that strive and make progress and get on in life, and that sense of pursuing opportunity, climbing the ladder of opportunity,
upward mobility, hard work and effort. That was something that I found that was very formative as I was growing up, and I think that's part of it.
Too, And so that family experience in making a different lifely in communism. How does it make you view Cubans today, who, unlike in the past, are being deported, some of them with criminal records, but not always. These are also people who fled communism.
Well, I think that you but I understand deeply as you just noted, the desire for freedom. But you can't all of these migration patterns. Immigration and migration across borders, everything falls apart if it's not done in a way that is legal and controlled. You have everyone must accept that that. You can't just have an open borders system.
It just causes chaos. And so support for immigration, for welcoming people who of fleeing persecution, all those things I've always actually David Cameron used to talk about it the same way. Support for all of that depends on the government controlling that, and when the government fails to control it, support declines. You can actually see that change in public opinion. You saw a drop in support for immigration and welcoming asylum seekers and so on in the US during the
open border years of Joe Biden's administration. So I think that you've got to combine the desire to offer people that opportunity with a sense of orderly management of that process.
Isn't the example of Cuba a bit different in the context of the United States.
I'm not sure what you're referring to specifically.
Because of fleeing communism, that thee.
Who wants to flee communism should be automatically accepted anyway, you.
Know, there's well the Cuban there are many Cuban Americans today who feel very upset with the with the deportation of Cubans for precisely that reason. I guess you're telling me you think they're wrong.
Well, I don't. I actually don't know specifically the case is you're talking about, are these illegal immigrants? I don't know exactly what you're describing.
I mean they are they are people who've entered the United States from Cuba and now they are being deported.
Well, did they enter legally or illegally?
They would have entered and now been undocumented. But that has been the case, that has been the case for a long time, but previous administrations didn't deport them because there was a certain protection for Cuban Americans that was different for others, and that has changed now because of your family history. I'm just wondering what you think of it.
No, I don't think my family history means that I support illegal immigration. I don't see how that follows at all. I think it's very important that we try and approach it in a calm and reasonable way, lower temperature. I think there's been far too much divisive, performative rhetoric on the Democrat side demonizing all of this. I think most people agree that immigration is a positive thing, but should
be managed and controlled by the government. That's a common sense position that I think the vast majority of people support.
Yeah, and of course you're an immigrant yourself to the US. You became a US citizen a few years ago. You've renounced your British citizenship, which you didn't have to. Was it just awkward to be running for office being a dual national or did you really feel that you just didn't want that passport anymore.
No, I feel very strongly that you're I feel very strongly that you're asking for people to put their faith in you, their trusting you. They and to make a commitment to you, and I think you're obliged to make a commitment to them and say I am one hundred percent all in for this country and this state, which I I am, but I wanted to have absolutely no doubt about that in anyone's mind.
Is there anything you miss about the UK?
Well, not particularly, I mean obviously friends and family, but we get back usually at Christmas time and see people, and so I love California deeply. I feel at home
here in a way that I haven't ever before. And I'm so proud to be an American, proud to be a Californian, and really honored to be in the position I'm in, which is to actually do something, you could say, in a way to repay the incredible opportunities that I've had here and to restore that idea of the California dream, which is a very particular thing about our state that other states really don't have, to really try and bring that to as many people as possible.
There's really nothing you miss the pint in the pubty in business.
That's a fair point. I do know that's right. When we go back to London. One of my first moves is is calling a friend or meeting of the friends, said yeah, we've got to go to a pub. That's a fair one.
How do you think the next few months are going to be, are you? I mean they're going to be grueling, right, You're going to be on the road, yes, But it's.
An honor to do it, truly, it's an honor to do it. It's such a struggle for people in California, and I feel this tremendous sense of responsibility to not let them down. And that's why on election night when we got the first results and it seemed that we were going to be okay, my feeling was overwhelming, the just relief truly that we okay, this is good. We haven't you know, we haven't let people down, the people who place their real faith in you being able to
help lead a change. And now it's a very clear choice, actually very helpfully clear, because you've got my plan for change and on the other side have Ebase, who's the living embodiment of more of the same. And so it's a really clear choice for California. And I'm excited about being on the road and putting it out there for people.
Would you like President Trump to come on the road with you?
Look, I think I haven't thought about that. Honestly, He's got a lot he's focused on, so I don't suppose that's something that he's thought about either.
I feel he might not be an asset to you. On the campaign trail in California, a lot.
Of people voted for him, More people voted for him in California than in any other state in twenty twenty fourth. Of course that's a function of being a big state. But I would just say that California is actually more of a Republican state than people think. And there's I get a very strong sense that there's a groundswell of people who felt that it's just not possible in these years of one party dominance, that actually change isn't possible.
And part of the reason I'm running a campaign in such a high energy way, which people say they haven't seen for a long time, is to try and get that sense of belief back that we really can do this.
Steve Hilton, thank you very much.
Great to be with you. Thank you, And that's.
Where we left the conversation. Bloomberg subscribers can read my notes on this and see pictures of how Steve Hilton has evolved since his UK politics days. That's at Bloomberg dot Com, Forward Slash, Michelle and so to the team. That producers are Jessica Beck and Chris Martlew, The video producer is Andy Hayward. Social media is by Alex Morgan, our music is by Bart Warshaw, and the executive producer
is Louisa Lewis at Bloomberg Weekend. Our thanks as ever to Brendan Francis Newnam and our executive editor Katherine Bell. Until next time, goodbye,