Announcement [00:00:00] The following podcast has adult content material, so if you're not an adult or if you have little ones with you, probably a good time to put something else on
Huda and Sahil [00:00:21] Hi, everyone, and welcome to the mind behind it. My name is Huda and I am Sahil
Dr Silva [00:00:29] I'm so nervous. I am a psychotherapist specialising in sexology, relationships and based in London. I'm fully accredited.
Announcement [00:00:37] One thing that the common public doesn't know about you?
Dr Silva [00:00:41] One way I really love to relax is by peeling carrots.
Sahil [00:00:45] Wow!
Huda [00:00:48] That is really...
Dr Silva [00:00:49] I don't know why, it doesn't work with apples or pears or anything else, but for some reason when I peel carrots, I feel very much in the here and now and I've just it just relaxes me. I don't know why.
Sahil [00:00:59] Is it because it's you're taking off layers after layers of the.
Dr Silva [00:01:04] Maybe
Sahil [00:01:05] What really attracted me to getting in touch with you was essentially the article that you wrote on porn and why I wanted to talk about it because I watch so many Tik-Tok videos where they bring porn stars on. But I think the people get a lot of shame around watching porn. Like, I don't know if, you know, there's this trend going on. It's called No FAP, where people are asked not to masturbate because it increases the testosterone level in a week and you'll be able to lift a lot better. And it's almost like - Can't we do anything anymore?
Dr Silva [00:01:34] I'm so glad that there are more porn performers and sex workers talking on platforms like Tik-Tok, because at least then it's kind of a real interaction between the performers themselves and the public. And I think it's great because for so many years, a lot of people were assuming what porn performers lives was like or what sex workers life was like, assuming they were traumatised people, assuming they were exploited, people that nobody really ever talked to them directly. They just assumed and made some made up some stories about what they think their life is. And so now it's great. You know, that's one of the good things with technology and with platforms like Instagram, Tik-Tok and things like that is that people can actually talk directly to the performers. And I've talked to many sex workers and many porn performers and, you know, with really balanced views about the porn industry not being that great, you know, it's not fantastic, but it's not also the the evil thing that some anti-porn people make it to be. And many porn performers go to or sex workers go to that those professions for many, many, many, many different reasons. It's not just because they're traumatised people. Some actually feel really empowered by these kind of professions. Others go there because it's making more money than working in a coffee shop for the universities. That isn't. And why not? And some other people for all sorts of different reasons. So it's not really one kind of cardboard cutout of personalities that goes to the porn industry. So that was really fascinating. And the thing is, that keeps coming up with people that I have talked about who are in in the sex working industry or the porn industry is not so much about the porn industry itself being a terrible place to be, but more about the government legislation. It's not protecting them. And because those professions are not legitimised in most countries, it means that they are open to exploitation from the people who are paying them. And so I hear that there are many, many porn studios that are really great, looking after their performers, paying them fairly and so on. But there are many others, too, who are not so great and they can exploit their performers because there's no legislation around it. So really, if you think about it, is it the porn industry that's evil or bad or wrong, or is it that the governments in in so many countries need to step up and make it a legitimate profession and actually protect these people? Like workers are protected in many other professions. And I think that the porn industry is never going to go away because it's so popular. So what we do need to do is working hard at protecting those people.
Huda [00:04:07] I have a question for you
Sahil [00:04:08] Good. That's what the podcast is for.
Huda [00:04:11] You're like what you have a question for me? I didn't expect that. Now, I'm not I'm not against porn as such. However, I do have this idea that it can sometimes distort a person's sense of reality when it comes to sex in the real life. And I find that I've spoken to many people that actually say, you know, I had sex with this guy and he you know, he just kind of completely slammed me and that was it. And I find that that's sort of portrayed a fair bit in porn. You know, they kind of just go at it and it's all very filthy and whatever it is and others kind of like it a bit more intimate. And what are your thoughts on that?
Dr Silva [00:04:50] Yes, it's something that we hear so often. It is definitely an issue. I've got two thoughts about it. The first thing is that most people watching porn is like they know on some level that they are watching something that is entertainment. OK, so it's just like somebody who's going to be watching every day some sci fi movie with aliens do not end up with a distorted view of the world today, because they know they can separate what's onscreen from what's real. We know we've had lots and lots of research, people watching horror movies, people watching violent movies, but they did not make those people violent. And it's the same with porn. There's no indication scientifically that porn makes somebody be something else that not they're not originally. It doesn't distort people's mind in that way. But what you are talking about is not so much about people brain changing because of porn or become distorted. What you're talking about is people using porn for sex education. And that is because the problem is not porn. The problem is the poor sex education that most countries have, you know, have not yet seen a country, maybe Scandinavian countries where they are just little bit forward with that. But most countries have real issues at teaching proper sex education. So then people from the age of 14, 15, 16 in adolescence, they have lots of hormones rushing through their bodies. They are going to be very interested in sex. Nobody to talk to about it, nobody to ask questions. Terrible sex education that is just about reproduction or avoiding STI's basically nothing else. So they actually turn to porn and especially now it's very easy because it's very accessible.
Huda [00:06:28] It is, yeah.
Dr Silva [00:06:29] So they go and they watch it. And because it's not a sex education, they think, oh, this is what I need to do for a woman to scream of pleasure. This is what needs to happen. And the problem is that porn because it is entertainment, it is not sex education, it never wanted to be sex education. It doesn't show the lube that you have to put on. It doesn't show the preparation with condoms. It doesn't show preparing your body before sex, it doesn't show how messy it is. It doesn't show how awkward sex is. It doesn't show consent. It doesn't show how you speak to your partner about what they want to do before sex. It doesn't show none of that, it just goes straight into the penetration with hard erections. Thirty minutes hard intercourse. Because that's what people like to watch for fantasies, when people use phone for sex education and then they try to replicate that with a partner, obviously some things are going to go wrong.
Sahil [00:07:19] And it's interesting that you said that it's not education because it isn't their responsibility. They were never made for that. They weren't made to educate. And talking about sex education, I grew up in India. We didn't have any sex education like none. So where would we go? Like, mind you, my parents were both doctors, so I saw baby coming out of a vagina when I was like nine years old. And I was just like my brain was blown away because I'm like, that is just humanly not possible what's happening right now.
Huda [00:07:47] And it's scary. It is actually quite intimidating.
Sahil [00:07:50] It is just it's one of the things that can make you feel like the world around you is not real. Like something bizarre is happening.
Huda [00:07:57] Yeah. When you're young and you experience that for the very first time, that could be a bit much.
Sahil [00:08:01] And then when I was 15 or 16 and I was in an all boys school on top of that and not having sex education and being in an all boys school, so your whole understanding of sex, it's it's on another scale and you don't know anything else. Like everyone was like, you need to watch porn. That's how you're going to learn. I remember mates telling me, why aren't you watching porn? How are you going to learn otherwise? And then you start doubting yourself. And I think men have this specially and I know I'm generalising, but men especially think that they need to do something to get a woman to orgasm or be pleasured. And they think that there's only one way to do it and that's penetration. And then all you're thinking about is how long can I last? That's all a man's brain keeps on thinking, fuck, do I do well? And it becomes a thing about your self-esteem. And that's why it affects so many people, because it can really fuck with your self-esteem. That's what they should be teaching in sex education. Like your self-esteem shouldn't be based on that.
Dr Silva [00:08:56] That's right. And you're right about masculinity in particular. There is so much pressure to be a certain way with women and sexually in order to feel like a real man, because otherwise you're just less of a man. That's absolutely happening in most societies and stuff just in the UK still now, although we're trying to challenge it. But, you know, across the world we see it. We see that the pressure that boys from early adolescence, when they think, oh, I have to have girlfriends, I have to conquer the girlfriend, I have to be super sexual. And as you say, it's a lot of pressure on self-esteem. And you're right that then, you know, if people have only porn as the sex education, they think, oh, my penis is not as big as the one in porn, my penis is not as hard. I'm only lasting three minutes, not thirty minutes-
Huda [00:09:40] Yeah, that's...
Dr Silva [00:09:42] -bit of a hard penetration and all of that stuff.
Huda [00:09:44] It does, it does misconstrue a lot of what's reality. The other thing is I was going to ask, I know that you say that we talk about men and women and having that masculinity problem. Is that the same for gay people as well, like men with other men? Do you think that there's an issue there when it comes to sexuality?
Sahil [00:10:02] I guarantee that.
Huda [00:10:03] But I wonder out of curiosity what that would be like, what would that be for them? Because that's two men-
Sahil [00:10:10] So you're saying same sex couples essentially, yeah,
Dr Silva [00:10:12] well, same sex couples that have literally no sex education at all. If the sex education with the sexual people is very poor, the sex education for same sex couples is basically
Huda [00:10:22] nothing.
Dr Silva [00:10:23] Yeah, nothing. So, of course, all they have is porn. But funnily enough, the gay community does have a better relationship with porn than heterosexual people because the LGBTQ culture is more accepting of different sexuality and a different way of doing it. They can incorporate it into their sex life with their partners. There's usually a little less shame about it. There are definitely some gay men who would think they have some problems watching pornography, but it's not quite the same. A lot of the time in heterosexual couples the porn problem starts with the female partner, who is the one who usually has a problem about their husband or their male partners watching pornography. That doesn't happen so much with gay couples. I hear a lot less. Somebody says, my partner is really upset that I'm watching porn a lot in the heterosexual couples.
Sahil [00:11:10] If the husband is watching porn, how does that make a woman feel? Why do we watch porn? I think is the bigger question? I think with porn at the end, there's something really fantastical about it, which is what makes it so addictive I guess
Huda [00:11:22] Yeah but that's the same with movies.
Sahil [00:11:24] Nah movies can be real reality based as well.
Huda [00:11:26] Or not
Dr Silva [00:11:28] I think it's a lot to do with insecurities, actually. And so the equivalent is that men feeling not liking the girlfriend to have a sex toy, for example, because they think it's a replacement of their penis and they feel really insecure about the penis if they know that their girlfriend is using a sex toy. And for women is the same with porn, women feel insecure about themselves if they find a boyfriend or their husband, watch porn because they think they're watching somebody with much better body than me, they're watching somebody with bigger breasts than me, they're watching blond and a brunette. And somehow they think that's because they're watching something that's different from them. It means they're not really attracted to them. And that's really part of the of the big myth that people really misunderstand is that when when somebody is watching porn and watching images, it's not because they are attracted to that image and they would wish they had sex with that images. It's just something to do with fantasies. Actually, when they finish watching porn, they can turn back to their partner and still very much fancy their partner just as much as they did before. But a lot of women have this kind of insecurities
Huda [00:12:27] unless it is actually an addiction, which it can be.
Dr Silva [00:12:30] Well, scientifically speaking, we have not found any evidence that porn is addictive. Porn addiction, sex addiction are really popular words that are out there a lot. Clinically, it's actually not been proven and there's been quite a lot of research about it. And they've never found the clinical components of addiction. Porn can be compulsive for some people, but compulsivity and addictions are two very different things.
Sahil [00:12:52] Yeah, and I guess compulsivity, I think you've differentiated two very big terms there. And the whole idea that we we treat sexual addiction as a disorder. And I think that's that's the problem is that now we have names for everything and we can categorise them. So, of course, when we get a chance, we do that. But they face a lot of stigma.
Dr Silva [00:13:10] That's right. Because it's-.
Sahil [00:13:11] Especially if you're a woman.
Dr Silva [00:13:13] Oh, yeah. Of course. You know, the addiction word is a pathology word, you know, it's a disease. And a lot of people think they have disease or they have a disorder if they watch too much porn or their partners think they watch too much porn or have sex that is not the lovely Christian heterosexual sex. It's kind of like people are pathologised unduly with those kind of terrible terms which have, again, I really want to stress, have not been clinically endorsed. The addiction, the typical addiction kind of method is the first to stop the behaviour. It's the first goal. And of course, it's understandable because when it's to do with drug and alcohol, the real addictions that we know, that actually is a real disorder, you have to stop this behaviours because there's a high, high risk of death. So, of course, this is how the addiction treatment starts with the primary goal would be to stop it. But with sex and porn, actually there isn't a high risk of death. Nobody has ever died of an orgasm overdose and the risk of having sex with multiple partners or the risk of injuring yourself by watching porn is really, really, really minimal. And also, when people watch a lot of porn, they have a lot of sex with people their brain is not impaired. If I took drugs five minutes earlier before the podcast started, I would not be able to speak coherently because my brain would be impaired. But if you watch two hours of porn and then five minutes before podcast, you can still go to the podcast. That's totally okay because your brain is not impaired.
Sahil [00:14:39] Unless you take a great drug, you take a lot of cocaine and then you're amazing on the podcast and you're like, well,
Dr Silva [00:14:47] That's a different story.
Sahil [00:14:48] Silva feels different today. I'm not sure what it is.
Dr Silva [00:14:51] I think this is what you were talking about with the no Fap thing. This is where they come in, No Fap and a lot of other anti porn organisation that really bang on that fake idea that porn is a disease and porn is an addiction and people must stop it. And what it ends up doing is shaming everybody watching porn, which is basically most of the planet, because it is so popular. If it was a disease, let's just think about money, if it was a disease, given there are millions and millions, millions of people watching porn every day, therapists would have been drowned in people knocking on the door for help. Right. It would just be just a public health crisis, literally, and research over time, again and again and again show that there is no causation between porn and mental health problems or sexual dysfunction.
Huda [00:15:37] OK, so when you go back a bit, what about so I know of people that have basically got this compulsion to have a lot of sex in their life and that may be with anyone or in any sort of situation. What about those sorts of situations? What would you do with that sort of patient? I guess that is actually saying I can't even help myself. I want to literally fuck anyone and everyone. Yeah, that exists doesn't it?
Dr Silva [00:16:04] Good Question. Of course it exists. It is a good question. And before I even talk to them about the problem, I talk to them about what might not be the problem. And so I make an assessment about what is the nature of the sexual behaviour. Is it that they are pansexual? Is it that they are erotic orientation, not just sexuality orientation, but the erotic orientation or their relationship orientation is not monogamous and heterosexual. And so that could actually explain that to a lot of people would have the urge to have sex with multiple, multiple people because it could be part of their sexual orientation. And we can't change that. And we should not change that. But putting this on the table as an option is important so that people can really think about their sexual behaviours by themselves and explore it. And that's what I do first before we talk about the problem. But then, of course, there are some people who will have true compulsivity with sexual behaviours. So basically behaviours that are not aligned with their values and what they actually want in their life, definitely not aligned with their erotic orientation or their relationship orientation, but somehow feel compelled. And most importantly, they don't know why they do that. There's a lack of awareness. And so for these people then because it's compulsivity and not addiction, I look at what is the function of the compulsivity, because compulsivity only exists for one reason, which is to soothe some underlying disturbance. Right. Because there is another problem and that is not a sex problem.
Huda [00:17:31] And that's just. And that's just the symptom of it or something.
Huda [00:17:35] Well it's a symptom. But actually sometimes it's a it's a way of managing underlying disturbance.
Huda [00:17:41] OK, it's like the way-
Huda [00:17:42] Because it's important to manage it means that the last thing you've got to do is to take that away from them. Right. The first goal can be to stop them doing this because that's the first goal you might be taking away their one way of coping with underlying disturbance and then that can make them worse.
Sahil [00:17:57] This I guess this situation has always intrigued me. So there's an actor called Armie Hammer. I'm not sure if you've heard about him. He recently got kicked off of all the movies because apparently his girlfriends came out saying that he's heavily into BDSM. How do you define consent in something like BDSM? You can't blame a person later telling him that you know he's heavily into this because there was consent in the first place?
Huda [00:18:22] That's very interesting because BDSM communities are the people who understand consent the best. It's one of their pillar of the community. And so it means that the rest of us could really learn from BDSM is about consent and talking to their sexual partners about what's going to happen and what's not going to happen and be very, very clearly boundry. Because most of us, we are not into BDSM and again, because of poor sex education, we've never learned to consent. So the issue then is when BDSM is another thing that's really, really misunderstood and sometimes BDSM, because it can be perceived, although it is not, it can be perceived to go on the edgy, dark side of sexual behavior. It could be people looking at it, not knowing anything about it. They could think, oh, gosh, that's bad, that's wrong. And surely it's open for harm. And that is when then suddenly BDSM can be blamed for unnatural, inappropriate and offensive sexual behavior. And that's actually why we see that a lot. And that's a big conflation of terrible between compulsive sexual behaviors and sexual offending behavior is another myth that people get really confused about. But actually, there are two very distinct things. People who struggle with their sexual behaviors with compulsivity, most of those people do not offend, do not have offending behavior. They engage in sexual activities consensually with other consenting adults. But there are some people who do offend, and that is a completely different category of disorder. And that is the kind of disorder that should address it with a sexual offense specialist, not sex addiction. We've seen that with Harvey Weinstein abusing women all over the place. Where does he go? He goes to a sex addiction clinic. That was the wrong place! He needed to go to sex offenders, not to sex addiction, but going back to this actor, I've not really looked into the case very much, but the only bits and pieces I read about on kind of newspapers, I'm not sure if the report was correct, but what I read, it sounded like he harmed his partners. That was not the proper BDSM behaviors and context. So either he did not do BDSM and was blamed for it because it's all very easy to say, oh yes, he's got this kink and this fetish and therefore he's going to be harming people. Now within BDSM, the reason why consent is so important is because there is a risk of harm if the BDSM behavior is hard hitting with a lot of submissive, dominant, that kind of stuff. And some people do like pain as a sexual arousal. And that is actually, there's nothing wrong with that. But it's important to know where the line is, of course. And in Britain, the law says that we cannot consent to self harm. It means that if the behavior at the end of the sexual behavior, even if you say, yes, I want to do it, you are left with your body having to recover for several days because it's been hit too hard, or if you've been cut and bled in a way that can be dangerous, even if you said, yes, I wanted to do it, it's actually not, cannot consent to that. So that would be crossing the line that's when those practices become unsafe. And that's really when maybe people can come to therapy and think, I like to do those things without also harming me and trying to find a way to practice BDSM in a safer way. For those people, we should not blame BDSM. We should not blame kink or fetish. We should just really help people understand BDSM a little better.
Huda [00:21:50] Ok. Going back a little bit to porn there was a question I actually had. How about I think this is a real problem. I know that some porn is fine, whatever. But then you have other ones like rape porn and child porn and all that sort of stuff. I mean, where where can we actually just draw the line in that case-
Sahil [00:22:07] I think the line is pretty clear there
Huda [00:22:08] now it is clear, but it exists.
Sahil [00:22:11] Oh, yeah. Like child pornography doesn't exist on mainstream pornography websites
Huda [00:22:14] I'm not even talking just about child pornography. I'm talking about rape pornography.
Sahil [00:22:19] I don't know if that exists in public forum.
Dr Silva [00:22:21] But I mean, first of all, I'd like to say that I really hate that term child pornography because it is not pornography.
Huda [00:22:28] No, it isn't.
Dr Silva [00:22:29] It is abuse. It is plain abuse. When you link it with porn, with that, it feels almost like it insults an industry almost because it's just nothing to do with pornography as the way that we understand it.
Sahil [00:22:44] It's not entertainment.
Huda [00:22:45] No, it isn't.
Dr Silva [00:22:46] And that's accessible on the dark web . To go to the dark web you have to be really knowledgeable. You have to really know what to do to get there. You have to have a particular interest in order to access it. And if you have a particular interest in it, it means that originally you have something that actually really needs to be addressed with a forensic psychologist. Yes. For the rape porn and the violent porn, that's kind of like a little bit different. And it makes people really uncomfortable to know. But unfortunately, it is the truth that a lot of people, and especially women, actually do have rape fantasies and they do not want to have it done in real life. OK, our fantasy world, it's really completely different from our real world. It is a very common fantasy, actually. And some rape porn could be accessed by people who enjoy that fantasy but are very clear that they don't want to have it done in their life or to do it in their life. Now, there's a big caution with that, though, is that if you are already predisposed to have misogynist views about women or you have a desire to be violent towards women, then it's really best not to watch that kind of porn. Because although that kind of porn does not cause somebody to be violent, it can increase somebody's desire to be violent if they originally already have some desire to be violent towards women. So there is an area of porn that is personally, I think violent porn is distasteful, but that is an area of porn that has to be used with caution.
Sahil [00:24:14] But that's very interesting. I think going back and I'm not sure if you know the etymology of why women have that as a fantasy in the first place. I don't know where that comes from?
Dr Silva [00:24:25] Lots of theories about it. I don't think we will ever know really completely what the rules of our fantasies are. But one of the one of the theories, which I think is probably closer to what is going on, is misogyny. I mean, one thing that we have to talk about here is that misogyny is so prevalent and again, misogyny is porn and makes men hate women. And that's not true. Misogyny predates Internet porn by centuries. But the the thing about that is that because of misogyny and because a lot of women from very early on in life are raised to be afraid of being in the streets, the fantasy of rape is almost reclaiming that and feeling power in being able to have their own story about it and have the control over it rather than it happening to them in an uncontrolled helpless way. That is one theory, just like homophobia in the world is very prevalent and the gay male fantasy of having sex with straight men is also very, very common. And I think it's for the same reason is to reclaim control, to have power over homophobia. So is it true? Is it not true? Is there something to do with that or not? We don't know. These are just theories.
Sahil [00:25:30] The idea of power is very intriguing as well, especially when it comes to sex like yeah, it's that power shift. People fantasise about that a lot. Where does it have -
Dr Silva [00:25:42] Power can be very erotic and it can be a big turn-on for some people. And if it's done consensually and respectfully it can actually be a great type of sexual play.
Dr Silva [00:25:51] Yeah, we're completely bare at that point. It's a very vulnerable position for us to be in and if we can still find power in that.
Sahil [00:25:58] But it's bizarre because when we originally started, when human beings were originally there, we were bare to begin with. Right. That was our natural state if we think about it. And then clothes came into being and then lack of clothes became shame. It's very interesting how whereas when we are born as babies, nobody goes 'fuck why is that baby naked' because that's how we are born. We weren't born with clothes on.
Dr Silva [00:26:19] And if you think about it, this idea of sex and sexual activities and sexual play and even wearing different kind of sexy clothes has been there as long as humans have existed, there are some paintings in caves about sexual activities and group sex and sex with power, like somebody with a crown, having sex with somebody who is, you know, those kind of fascination about sex and having to picture sex and put it on hold and looking at it has been there on and on.
Dr Silva [00:26:52] Group sex is an interesting one. Can we talk about group sex?
Sahil [00:26:57] I don't know.
Huda [00:26:59] Group orgies. What is with group orgies?
Sahil [00:27:02] Orgies are groups you can't have two people orgies. More than two is a fucking group. Orgies are group sex, right?
Dr Silva [00:27:12] Yes. Otherwise it will be a very sad orgy.
Huda [00:27:15] It would be very sad
Sahil [00:27:18] I can barely share my food with two people. And I think that idea of power would be so blurry when it would come to orgies.
Huda [00:27:28] So many naked people.
Sahil [00:27:28] It's like so many things to do. Who's going to turn off the light?
Huda [00:27:32] And there's a lot of people at that point.
Dr Silva [00:27:35] Yeah very interesting, just like we're talking something could be somebody's turn on and be somebody else's complete turn off. So the erotic mind is so wide and varied and rich that we don't always know why we are turned on by something or not. Like, for example, we don't really know why we like potatoes, but we don't like fish. You know, we like those kind of like food tastes.
Sahil [00:27:59] Everyone likes potato Silva.
Dr Silva [00:28:01] All right. Ok.
Huda [00:28:02] You're like ok you're right about that
Dr Silva [00:28:04] Now maybe you might love courgettes and you might just hate fish, you don't know why, it is just out of personal taste. And nobody is coming to you and say, oh, why don't you like fish? What is what's going on in your childhood, you know?
Huda [00:28:20] Yeah, but if somebody did say to me, if they didn't like potatoes, I would be questioning them.
Dr Silva [00:28:24] Yeah, you're right. Yes, I fell in the trap there, everyone loves potatoes especially in the form of chips.
Huda [00:28:32] I know.
Sahil [00:28:32] It's the most diverse vegetable.
Dr Silva [00:28:36] That's true.
Sahil [00:28:37] It's like if it was a category in porn, in vegetable porn, it would be up there.
Huda [00:28:41] High.
Sahil [00:28:42] Like potatoes would be up there. Most watched
Dr Silva [00:28:45] Proper mainstream
Sahil [00:28:48] It's on the first opening page. Brussel sprouts is all the way down. Brussels sprouts give me gas. I can't deal with that. So it's all the way down.
Dr Silva [00:28:59] That's great you know. If we could talk about sex the way we talk about food, then. Well, you can still have that shame melt away. But why can't we talk about sex, the way we talk about food, like, you know, what you like, what you don't like, and not just really feeling that somebody is weird or bad because they don't like Brussels sprouts or because they think courgettes are great. Right. So so what can we just do the same with sex? And that's really something I really want to try to help our communities be better at. You know, just talk about it without that shame and all those taboos and all those myths. And so going back to your question, a lot of people love orgies because it's a place where they can feel really free, empowered, safe. They love to be touched by multiple hands. They maybe like the kind of music that is played. They like maybe the kind of environment that they have to be in. You usually have to be in a large room and so on. So it's kind of like... some people like the scent of so many bodies together. It could be all sorts of different things that draw some people at loving that. And at the same time, other people would be the last thing they want to do in their lives. And why is somebody turned on by it and somebody is turned off by it? It's just kind of like, why do you like courgettes and not fish? And it's not always a particular meaning behind it. It just is.
Sahil [00:30:14] I think logistically it's a lot of work that's all I would say.
Huda [00:30:18] A lot of work.
Dr Silva [00:30:19] You gotta plan.
Sahil [00:30:21] You can't just decide today that orgy in the next five minutes. It's going to be like in your five year plan or something. It can't just be. You've got to have a place. You've got to have a venue. You've got to you've got to think.
Huda [00:30:32] I guess. Yeah. And I guess to about threesomes and stuff, this is just adding more people.
Sahil [00:30:36] Yeah. And this is just more than three. So foursome it's a five-some. It can keep going on. You get the point. What I did find interesting was that you said that why can't we talk about sex the same way we talk about food? Our taste in food somehow doesn't question identity as much as sex does. And, you know, people always ask you, which one would you give up sex or food like they always put in the same category. And I'm like, why would you do that? Why do I have to give up one of them?
Dr Silva [00:31:03] But also, like, it's interesting, you said it's it's not linked to identity. I think it is. I am French in general. We are identified by our food.
Sahil [00:31:13] that is true.
Dr Silva [00:31:14] You don't you don't mess about with a French person's food.
Sahil [00:31:17] But it is it's also that people don't have as much problem with someone's food tastes as much as their sexuality. You know people in this fucking world have died because of their sexuality. And I think that is fucked. Nobody has gone 'You fucking eat too many eggplants. I'm going to fucking kill you' and I don't know why that is.
Dr Silva [00:31:37] Women, women are killed for having sex with other people that they may not be married. Men are killed for having sex with same sex. Yes. A lot of people across the world are bastardized or even ostracized from the community just because they have a particular turn on a particular fantasy or a particular sexual behavior. So it is true, you know, the sex bit is a lot more taboo because of the terrible and negative consequences that can happen as the result of either society or political, or religious movements.
Sahil [00:32:12] I also think it's as as bizarre as this sounds, if we were to have sex with clothes on, people would not have that big an issue, I think.
Huda [00:32:21] Dry humping, though.
Sahil [00:32:22] No, not in public
Sahil [00:32:24] The idea that we do something so intimately and without anyone knowing. That's what makes it people think of it as something mysterious or something that they don't know, because it's the idea that I can't fucking see you having sex with another man. And that's why I have a fucking problem with it. And now I have to imagine it and that's my fucking problem. But but if this was out in the open, people would eventually be OK with it. It's like PDA with gay people.
Sahil [00:32:52] You're saying something really important here? Because that's exactly exactly the process of sex negative people, they cannot stand the erotic for themselves. So when they have a sexual fantasy or a sexual feeling that comes to their mind or their body, then they will blame somebody else for feeling that. And that's when they say, you know, it's all your fault and so on. And that's why porn is blamed a lot of the time. That's why women who wear skirts or yoga leggings or whatever are blamed for male erection. That's the attitude, the entire premise of No Fap. In fact, organizations like this, you know, they blame women sexuality. They blame for the blame everybody for them feeling sexual. And that's a that's a big problem because it is really when you can go into some really dark places in in how people are repressed and attacked and insulted.
Sahil [00:33:43] And also, if you have an erection, every time you see a woman in yoga pants, you have so much work to do. You have so many things to deal with in your life. It's like,
Huda [00:33:55] Yeah, it is your problem and at the end of the day that is your problem.
Sahil [00:33:58] And now there's this big campaign about no fap, which you are talking about which is very big among males, every male on tiktok, especially big alpha males, your so-called alpha males with like those big bodies and big muscles. And they're like, hey, if you don't fap, you think clearer and you've got more testosterone. So everything's better. And I don't know. You probably do know if there's any scientific evidence behind that?
Dr Silva [00:34:20] But the thing is, like anybody on tik tok or social media, they can just be speaking very confidently about something and people will believe them just because they have confidence. And actually, there is so much fake news about this. And it's not just no fap, it's all the anti anti porn anti-sex movement. Unfortunately, there's more than just no fap. Even the 12 step programs, the Sex Addicts Anonymous programs, they are all based on misinformation that has nothing to do with the sexology science at all. And no fap is the same. No fap really encourages men to have a particular way to have a particular prescription on how to be a man. And this is actually bordering on toxic masculinity more than anything else. And it's blaming women and everything that they are saying about not masturbating has nothing to do with science. There's absolutely no no basis on that. It's all anti-sex opinions and most probably driven by a strong religious movement hidden underneath.
Huda [00:35:24] With the no fap thing is it because they're using their testosterone to be able to lift?
Sahil [00:35:30] It apparently makes you think clearer. You're more active, you're more energetic, and it happens with I don't know if you know, but like a lot of UFC fights are boxing matches. You will always hear like these the players they're not allowed to have sex
Huda [00:35:44] Yeah they're not allowed to have sex prior. Yeah, it's a thing actually.
Sahil [00:35:47] And it happened, I remember during the 2003 FIFA World Cup or 2002 I think which happened in South Africa. I think Ronaldinho, Brazil's very famous player, he got so much shit because he was having sex with his girlfriend the night before the game and he got a lot of crap for that. And they blamed Brazil's defeat on him that because he wasn't energetic.
Huda [00:36:06] Oh, my God.
Sahil [00:36:07] And it's like, dude, holy shit.
Huda [00:36:09] It's like, the whole team went down and he's the one to blame
Sahil [00:36:13] And why the hell do you know that he's having sex? Like, why does it matter to you?
Dr Silva [00:36:18] There is actually real science. Let me tell you the real science, the real science is actually the complete opposite to what people are saying. Masturbating is a very healthy behavior and orgasm masturbating as well as orgasm is anti-disease. You have less chance to develop heart conditions, cancer, prostate cancer. And it makes your sperm better quality. The more you ejaculate, the more you sperm because of better quality. So if you want to or if you are struggling for fertility, you masturbate more and you have more chance.
Huda [00:36:52] Wow.
Dr Silva [00:36:53] All of these things, all of these things, of course, they're not they're not completely robust. Nobody can claim if you masturbate, you're not going to have cancer. Of course you can't say that. But there is the natural brain chemicals that flood the body after orgasm, which is a fantastic, super healthy cocktail of chemicals, which, by the way, you cannot get addicted to because you cannot binge on your own chemicals. Let's get that clear first. It's just really fantastic. You know, you've got oxytocin, which is great for bonding, is great for love. It makes you feel good about yourself. And you have lots of serotonin, lots of different types of serotonins that gives you a really great feeling. So it's good for your mental health because it reduces your stress. You're less likely to have headaches, you are less likely to have anxiety. And also it's good for your heart and it's a good anticancer boost. It's just like your blueberry superfood.
Huda [00:37:47] OK.
Sahil [00:37:47] Well, I'll put it in the blender.
Huda [00:37:54] That is so disgusting.
Dr Silva [00:37:59] Now you're going to think about it next time you have a protein smoothie.
Huda [00:38:04] I actually have a question real quick with is it true that when men have, like, specific foods, their ejaculation tastes different?
Dr Silva [00:38:15] Anecdotally, yes. So we have the anecdotes that if you ate pineapple, your sperm tastes better.
Huda [00:38:24] Yeah, I've heard that.
Dr Silva [00:38:26] There's not been any there's not been any science.
Sahil [00:38:28] I am I've always been very fascinated by that, especially with men when they masturbate, straight after they have this feeling of guilt and regret. And why is that? And I've never understood that. I don't know if it's a society thing or it actually does happen. Oh, it's the fact that you have lost something. Don't laugh. It's a real thing.
Sahil [00:38:46] Yeah, yeah.
Sahil [00:38:47] It's it's a feeling of loss. I don't know. Silva can you please just just explain?
Dr Silva [00:38:52] It's mostly a societal thing. It's mostly an external judgment that is inserted in people's mind after they do it. And that's because a lot of the time, you know, you've got that terrible label of the wanker. Right. And so you think, oh, gosh, I'm one of those guys who wanked again.
Sahil [00:39:11] You you call people that.
Huda [00:39:13] I do call people wanker.
Sahil [00:39:15] She's the one she's the cause of that problem. Well, she needs a fucking blueberry smoothie.
Dr Silva [00:39:21] But most of those people that will feel bad, it's usually because they have some religious thinking behind it. Either they are religious people, or they grew up in a religious household or they have some lessons that are based on religiosity that they might not even be aware that they do.
Sahil [00:39:37] Well, it's a belief system that, you know, especially nowadays where we are so obsessed with productivity. We think that you could have used that time to do something valuable. Right? People say that, you idiot, you fucking wank all day long, you could have done something valuable with your day and you're wasting your time and suddenly you start feeling 'aah fuck' And you're right there's this identity issue that comes with it. It's like people who maybe wank too much suddenly they feel like they're loners or they're outcasts and everything's harder for them. And there's a whole set of mental things that happen to a person who does that.
Dr Silva [00:40:11] Sometimes it has been shown for both men and women that they can feel sadness after orgasm and that is not actually a disorder or anything, anything bad about it, it is just that for some people, it's how they go into what we call restitution of the body after the orgasm, because the orgasm is a peak, is a physical peak. And and after that, you can relax the body to go back into-.
Sahil [00:40:31] Its release.
Dr Silva [00:40:33] - to a different state they have a moment of sadness. And some people think why do they feel sad after an orgasm, it sounds like it's not normal. So it's not guilt or shame. But you can have an unpleasant feeling after an orgasm. For some people, it's quite rare, but it does happen with some people.
Huda [00:40:48] So with a lot of masturbation, though, is it true that then sometimes men who do masturbate a fair bit like I'm talking nine times a day or something.
Sahil [00:40:58] Nine times a day?
Huda [00:41:01] They are out there.
Sahil [00:41:01] Who are you meeting who is masturbating nine times a day. Because I have a big problem with that?
Huda [00:41:06] You know, there are people out there right. Surely there are people out there that do nine-
Sahil [00:41:11] Nine times a day?
Dr Silva [00:41:11] Well, there are some people that do masturbate a lot. Yes.
Sahil [00:41:14] I think eight is fine.
Huda [00:41:16] So nine is not OK. Whatever.
Huda [00:41:22] Would it be true then that they can't enjoy real sex because of that in a way, because of the physical, the the hand and all that sort of stuff, is that?
Dr Silva [00:41:30] Yes, the the common term for this, it's called the death grip. And that's basically when people masturbate holding their penis very, very tightly. And so they then teach their penis to feel pleasure when it's hard fiction.
Huda [00:41:44] That's what I, yes.
Dr Silva [00:41:45] Yes. And usually that's when, you know, if you watch porn, you have quite a lot of visual stimulation. And so you're not always aware of how tight you're holding your penis in your hand. And if that's something that you do, say, nine times a day or on a very regular basis and you're actually training your penis to be feeling the sensation, then if you try to have oral sex with somebody else or even vaginal sex that might not have such a strong grip, you might not feel the sensation then. And then you might start to lose your erections and you might start to think that sex is not as good, but it's just it's just a grip thing, really.
Huda [00:42:17] OK,.
Sahil [00:42:18] That's just physics, really. That's that's literally science. That's very smart. Yeah.
Dr Silva [00:42:23] Yeah. The best way to do it is to retrain for those men, to retrain how they masturbate and to masturbate in a different way more gently or with a sex toy or with some lube.
Sahil [00:42:33] Or ask someone else to do it
Dr Silva [00:42:35] Someone else to do it indeed.
Sahil [00:42:36] Yeah, that would be the best case scenario. So you're just sitting back. Give your death grip a break. That's a great movie title. Death grip.
Dr Silva [00:42:46] Yeah. Go go and write the script.
Sahil [00:42:48] Yeah. I think we have the script.
Huda [00:42:52] I've learned a lot today.
Sahil [00:42:54] Yeah this is, this is like if you've dropped a whole lot of like truth bombs that -
Huda [00:42:59] I know because I had a lot of misconceptions.
Dr Silva [00:43:01] I mean at the end of the day, you know, I don't do the research either. I just read the research and and I just I just really challenge myself with all those misconceptions. But at the end of the day, because porn is just entertainment, if you like it watch it. If you don't like it, don't watch it and that's it. You know, you don't have to just impose your views on others.
Sahil [00:43:20] And it's really, I find it fascinating that in a country like America where guns are legal, sex work is not and prostitution is not.
Dr Silva [00:43:27] Right.
Sahil [00:43:27] Except in Las Vegas. It's so bizarre to me.
Huda [00:43:30] It's actually so stupid.
Sahil [00:43:32] Like, guns are fine. You can shoot people, but like, no, we can't have sex work.
Dr Silva [00:43:36] I challenge you to do a mass murder with a dildo, see how that works?
Huda [00:43:41] I mean if I hit that dildo on someone's face.
Sahil [00:43:44] What if it's a really small person like a midget and you crush a dildo on their head, that'd be a shit way to die.
Dr Silva [00:43:51] Even though it's not quite like a bullet, I don't think.
Huda [00:43:53] No, it's definitely not.
Sahil [00:43:55] Don't challenge me.
Dr Silva [00:43:56] I notice that you've posted a fair bit about, you know, what's happening in the LGBTQ community as well.
Dr Silva [00:44:04] Yes.
Huda [00:44:04] Could you explain to us a little bit about all of that as well, like what the issues are at the moment?
Huda [00:44:09] I think for sex there are two very big, big things. One is for heterosexual people, it's misogyny and the idea of masculinity that we've talked about quite a fair bit on this podcast. And for LGBT people, it's homophobia. It's so rife and a lot of the time unchallenged too. And there are also lots of myths and misconceptions about it. And a lot of people sometimes seek a therapist because they think they feel bad about sex. They feel bad about the sexual behaviors, about their turn ons because they are told that it's not right, it's not good and for someone it's like, oh, you know, I should be monogamous, and I'm not monogamous. Well, actually, that's because diversity of sexuality is really, really wide and not everybody is monogamous. So so a lot of people have a lot of shame about it. But of course, there is in some parts of the UK and across the world in America, it's very rife too, it's what we call conversion therapy. And conversion therapy, and I hate that it has the word therapy in it, but it's basically the gay cure, which is a therapy. That is an aversion therapy, trying to attempt to change people's sexuality, to tend to turn gay people straight, basically. Wow. And and that is usually that has been going on for years and years and years. It was originally a Christian movement.
Huda [00:45:23] Yeah, that's what I thought.
Dr Silva [00:45:24] It's very embedded in religion. But now, of course, a lot of other religions have taken it up and Islam is not a fan of it too.
Sahil [00:45:31] Islam is a fan of it. It's one of its favorite movies. It's funny, though, because the amount of things that the Christians started, I have to put it out there, I'm probably going to get fucking shot for this.
Huda [00:45:41] Yeah, with a fucking dildo.
Sahil [00:45:45] I'm the first one who dies. The amount of shit that Christians have started is insane. Like they've caused so much fuckin problems. It's ridiculous. No wonder they're the biggest religion in the world.
Dr Silva [00:45:55] I mean, gosh, yes, I agree with you. You know, that they killed a lot of people and continue to do so. And so the conversion therapy is obviously... In the psychological spheres it's been deemed as unethical and harmful and nobody should practice it. And if somebody seems to practice it, they can be written off the psychological register straight away because it's unethical, but it's still in so many countries it's still not illegal. It means that you can disguise it, and not call it conversion therapy. You can call it anything else, religious guidance or or pastoral care or whatever, and have conversion therapy anyway. So it really, really does need to be made illegal and there should not be a religious exemption to it. At the moment in the UK just this week, the government is debating banning it finally after years of consultation. But they are also thinking of making another consultation with a religious exemption, which hopefully does not happen because they were just missing the point completely, that it's a religious movement in the first place, but the problem is still happening now. It's still happening a lot. And and unfortunately, as I said, it's kind of sometimes practiced under different disguise. And in my opinion, it happens in sex addiction clinics. And that's why that's another reason why I do not like the sex addiction thing, is because when somebody comes and even heterosexual people, you know, they come and they say I've got this kink, I've got fetish. I've got BDSM, it doesn't it is not compatible with my vanilla wife. And so rather than thinking-.
Sahil [00:47:25] Oh, maybe get a chocolate one.
Dr Silva [00:47:28] Yeah, right. I'm thinking about... yeah. I think maybe there's a conflict between the different flavors here and-
Sahil [00:47:33] Yes, maybe you're going for the wrong flavor.
Dr Silva [00:47:36] Yes. Instead they say BDSM is bad and wrong let's try to fix it and let's try so that you can fit into your vanilla sex life. And that is to me a form of conversion therapy. It is widely, widely, widely practiced.
Huda [00:47:50] What happens in conversion therapy? Like what do they how does it work? Like what is it like a machine? I picture it to be like a machine for some reason.
Sahil [00:47:57] Like, you just sit in a chair and they put something over your head and you come in like you solved.
Sahil [00:48:01] What is it?
Dr Silva [00:48:04] And people do it in many different ways. A lot of it is psychological abuse so is basically to say each time you're going to have that thought, each time you have that fantasy just tell yourself you're a bad person, you're evil. And God will save you and then you pray.
Sahil [00:48:17] It's like religion. It's basically religion
Dr Silva [00:48:20] It's praying to gay away.
Sahil [00:48:23] It's literally like a religion or a cult.
Dr Silva [00:48:27] There are some people who do some things even more kind of harmful when they're psychological abused. Psychological abuse is very harmful, but physically harmful when they get to hold one of the stress balls that have pins inside. And each time you have thoughts or fantasy they just squeeze the ball and and then their hand is basically bleeding with the pins
Huda [00:48:47] So that staff would fuck you up. That is actually abuse.
Dr Silva [00:48:50] I heard in sex addiction treatment, I heard some people say, oh yeah, my therapist told me that when I have a fantasy and I think of having sex with somebody that's not my wife, I just I have to put a ice cube in my mouth to have a brain freeze. I mean, that's kind of not far off, rather rather than just thinking, well, you know, I've got a sexual fantasy and it's part of my erotic world and there's nothing wrong with it. And I can hold it lightly and also engage with my partner.
Sahil [00:49:16] I did want to ask one last controversial question, which was India has now been given the name of the rape capital of the world and, you know, the number of rapes that happen in India, like by far, like I get that the population is large, but the number of rapes are just so fucking high. And people have always been really conflicted about what is the right way to address it. Is it education or is it the idea that sex work should be made legal in a country like that, or does it come from religion? So it's such a blurry idea and people now feel unsafe. Women feel unsafe in India. And I've always tried to think about, you know, if I was the prime minister, I could be the prime minister. What would I do? Like what is the kind of... where do you start? Because it is a genuine problem.
Dr Silva [00:49:59] Yes, well, there is, I'm not sure that's going to answer your question, but there is definitely some studies that suggest that in countries where sexuality is repressed there is more sexual aggression. As in countries, it could be communities as well as the faith communities that repress sex, they are more likely to have aggressive sexual behavior. Same thing in a country wide maybe if their sexuality is repressed. But that's not just it's I think it's also to do with women's rights. If women's rights are not actually up to scratch and women don't feel they will be listened to, heard or believed or even or even attacked because they speak up, then that's going to be part of the problem. Because, of course, rape is a common practice, because a lot of those men know that they can get away with it. And so it is something to do with women's rights. It's something to do with sex education, might be something to do with sexuality being repressed. And it might have to have something to do with this idea of masculinity as well. And what it's like to be a man and that kind of misogyny, basically misogyn world.
Huda [00:51:07] And it's not just women that they rape, they they rape animals. They rape children as well. It's not it's not...
Sahil [00:51:12] It's sexual repression.
Huda [00:51:13] It is. I think that people have thoughts and a lot of them may have these thoughts and go, no, that's wrong. And have that moral compass to go, no, that's not OK, because we all have thoughts and some of them can be pretty fucked up. And that's just human. But yeah, but I think that, you know, I think Silva is right in a way that women's rights aren't strong enough. You know, animal rights aren't strong enough. And I don't think children's rights are strong enough over there.
Sahil [00:51:39] Well children are not given rights.
Huda [00:51:41] But that's what I'm saying. I think that's what the problem actually is because, yeah, like here you can have people that have messed up thoughts, but they'll go, no, I'll either get caught or I shouldn't do it, because morally that's wrong. But I think that that's what the actual issue is.
Sahil [00:51:54] Yeah, but I think what sexual repression, I think the idea it's very-.
Huda [00:51:58] Well it adds to it.
Sahil [00:51:58] Yeah. But it's also interesting how the brain works. Like as soon as you say that's a wrong idea, the brain obsesses over it. And it becomes a thing. That's why we have such an obsession with the wrong, because we want to try it. Because the brain obsesses. Why is it wrong? Why is it wrong? Why is it wrong? Why is no one telling me is this wrong? You have to try to see if it's wrong.
Dr Silva [00:52:14] Prohibition sometimes can be quite erotic and it can be quite arousing, you know. But then you've got to be very clear about values and consent as well. And you know, and when people say this is not allowed to do, you know, the more you're going to be thinking of forcing yourself not to do something the more you'll want to do it. But then, of course, if it's done in a way that breaches people's consent, it's very it's very bad to be looking at. And I think that if people think that they can get away with it, you know, they won't have to challenge themselves too much about the consent issue.
Sahil [00:52:45] Yeah, it's like eating donuts, like we prohibit people. And then, like, you're like, fuck I just wanna eat donuts. Now, all I can think about is donuts. Everything looks like a donut.
Dr Silva [00:52:55] Right. Exactly. Food and sex and you are sorted.
Sahil [00:52:58] Sorted. Basic like so basic. Oh God.
Dr Silva [00:53:04] You're so funny
Sahil [00:53:05] This has been an absolute pleasure to have you. And I was kind of on edge about talking about this stuff because I haven't really in public and normalize it for us to talk about it and really, really appreciate that.
Dr Silva [00:53:17] Thank you very much. Fantastic. I'm so glad you enjoyed it. It was really, really great fun to speaking to you both. It's pretty great.
Sahil [00:53:23] You reckon is the best podcast you've ever done. Right?
Huda [00:53:25] Don't say that.
Dr Silva [00:53:26] Actually, you know, I think yes, I think so. You know, it was really, really good fun. We laugh. We laughed as well. You know, it was really, really super enjoyable.
Sahil [00:53:34] Thank you Silva
Huda [00:53:35] Thanks
Sahil [00:53:36] Bye bye.