#82. On Writing Our Own Playbook in Life, with Nancy A Shenker

My mission is to empower women like you to believe and save with. It's my time now, and to help you rediscover who you really are, what you really want, and how to get there. As part of this mission, I interview incredible women for this podcast who share their stories of reinvention and who will inspire you to face the obstacles in your way to reach your vision for yourself in your next stage of.

This week is absolutely no exception, and that I'm honored to have on the show today, Nancy a Schenker.

Nancy is a marketing innovator, a brand builder, writer, speaker, and self-proclaimed rule breaker. She is over 60 and likes to say I have dual citizenship in the analog and digital worlds, a brand growth consultant and content strategist and writer. She established her own business called the On Switch in 2003 when she was close to.

She is a champion of cross-generational collaboration and regularly moderates interactive panels, bringing together professionals from their twenties to eighties in various industries. Nancy also has published a column called The Silver Hair Playbook, how to Be a Badass After 50, as well as Guides to Dating over 50. She also recently launched a standup act called I'm Not Your Effing Grandma, about perceptions of older women. over her 40 year business and marketing career.

Nancy has been a CC level executive, an entrepreneur, and a mentor to hundreds of small businesses and professionals at all stages. And if that isn't enough, she has written eight books, an AI machine learning robotics site, a travel and lifestyle site, and authors a newsletter called Route 66, about energetic aging. Wow. That is so great. I'm so pleased to have you on the show today. Nancy, welcome.

So, and then you also have mentioned that you're kind of in your sixth professional. And personal reinvention. So I'd love for you to tell our audience about all your reinventions and, and what is a driving force behind it and, and what keeps you moving in this direction.

So when I do some of my coaching for women in their professional lives, small business owners and other women, I. Try to get them to wrap their heads around what is their innate superpower that they may have had since childhood. And for me, that has always been storytelling. So that was my first 10 years. , I'll lump a bunch of years together. I floundered for a little bit trying to figure out what I wanted to do professionally.

I was very creative, but it was the eighties and there was a tremendous amount of pressure on women to be professionals. Mm-hmm. . So I thought I was gonna go to law school instead, I went to publishing grad school at night while I was working full-time in New York, and then I got tired of being poor. and I kind of accidentally fell into financial services.

I had, I think it was probably about 12 or 13 interviews because I was changing industries and ended up at Citibank, where much to my amazement, because I'd never taken an economics or business class, I rose very quickly up the corporate ladder, and then I left Citibank. To MasterCard and spent a big chunk of my adult life in financial services in fairly senior executive jobs, doing really heady, wonderful, lucrative things. And along the way I had two daughters and.

Big house in the suburbs, great car, yada, yada. Like everything that we were supposed to want. Supposed to want in the eighties. Yes, yes. And I was not feeling fulfilled, so I left financial services and I finally made it to the C-Suite again, which was the holy Grail of corporate life and was the head of marketing for an international company conference company that now produces Comic-Con and got to fly internationally.

Big job, big office, big responsibility, and I was just exhausted from corporate bureaucracy raising two kids, getting them ready for college while working full-time and commuting. And I'm not really counting my reboots here.

I'm probably up to at least six . And when my position was eliminated, This last corporate job, I inter, I remember interviewing for a job at a big money center bank and I was sitting in the chair listening to the recruiter talk and it was like that Charlie Brown cartoon where all I heard was And I said, I just, I don't have it in me to do this again and use some of my s. To launch my own consulting practice. Nice. And that was when I was 48. And it was very successful at the beginning.

I almost got to, um, the holy, the holy ground number, a million dollars in gross revenue, which only 4% of women business owners ever make it to that point. Nice. But with a big business, when it's your own business, come a lot of big headaches and. Responsibilities and when the recession hit in 2008, 2009, everything unraveled.

I was also going through a divorce at the time, and I had to do a lot of soul searching again because it was that same sort of, I hate to use the word compulsion because it was more rational than that, but I realized I didn't have to have a big company. To fulfill my big dreams. Hmm. So I downsized the company. I sort of blew it up and started all over again.

This was in 2010, 2011, and since then I've been still doing a fair amount of brand consulting, working with a wide range of businesses, but also doing a lot more writing. As evidenced by the eight books and blogging, professional speaking, I am now flexing my video muscle and doing a little bit more. I just ordered myself a new tripod and ring light for a belated holiday gift. Yeah, I am moving in that direction.

And the standup comedy really was an offshoot of the fact that I had already gone into the professional speaking world, had gotten over my fear of standing on stage and speaking to an audience. And I've always been told that I had a snarky sense of humor. And because I feel so passionately, About the way older women are currently being mistreated by the media and by employers.

I said I'm gonna surface the, what I call the final ism, but I'm not gonna do it by being an old crone critical ranting raving school arm. I'm gonna use my sense of humor and my command of statistics to. People about what's really going on in the world today, in the advertising world, in the business world, and I'm just beginning to chip away at the biases that exist. Yes. And as you know, as a, as a professional coach, many of those biases live in our own minds.

We believe that we're washed up then. , we will start to behave that way. Mm-hmm. . So I think women just need, and men, but women are, we're the masters of reinvention. We need to take back some of that power. Mm-hmm. . And as I say, when you, you see something, say something. Yeah. Because our, our silence is complicity in many respects. Mm-hmm. . . Wow. Okay. I'm just, I, I'm just kind of analyzing

So this happens to so many women and it's like, oh, I'm exhausted, but I'm not fulfilled. I'm successful from the outside, but I'm not fulfilled. And then, but then you went ahead and you did, you started your own business, which is amazing. So, and then realizing that the big business is. Maybe not fulfilling your big dreams, but why don't I do something? And now you're doing all these other things like the a, comedy and writing books.

And so I guess the lesson in that for me is that following your passions and not always having to. Go according to what society tells that we should

. But then my mother got ill, and she lived to be 95 and I became a primary caregiver, and so she passed away in November. Not this last year, but the year before. I spent time with my brother settling the estate, and then I really have, then I often say factory reboot or reset the clock. Mm-hmm. . So for all intents and purposes, my adult life didn't really begin when I graduated college or when I got married, or when I got my degree.

. It really began in July of last year when I no longer had to take care of anybody else. Yes. Right. And whether it's employees or independent contractors or aging parents or kids, we as women, tend to be the caregivers and the nurturers, and giving ourself permission to only take care of ourselves is a novel concept. Hmm. . Kavita Ahuja: Absolutely. That's why I call my coaching program. It's my time now. It is, yeah. It's, it's our time now because you are right. We're take caregivers.

We're looking after others and, and that's okay. But I mean, there comes to point where you have to ask what do we, what are we doing for ourselves? So I love that. Thanks for putting it all together.

And it's, I also wanted to kind of ask you, I know that you. you mentioned that you were in the corporate role, but you also have this kind of entrepreneurial spirit. And then I think, um, your first, your first venture was selling multicolored potholders, door to door and running a comic book release. We sell business or something. And then your, your name, uh, Nancy was named after Nancy Drew and Nancy Sinatra. So tell us about that.

And I think it's, you mentioned it, it's like about your fearlessness, right? And your curiosity and, and, That would be where I'm gonna ask you this next is that oftentimes as women and, and we're faced in this juncture of life, we're in, in transition, and it's time now to think about ourselves, but we're fearful, like we get scared. Like we're, we're held back by these interferes that you talk, we, we are discussing.

But so how did you manage to be the Nancy Drew and be fearless or whatever, and go after what you wanted and what, how would you, how would you. Yeah, I'm sorry. Fearless was the outside projection. Yeah. But internally, I was always very fearful. I'd be lying if I said that I confidently rang every doorbell and knocked on every door and had my sales pitch down path for my potholders.

I was terrified when I was doing it, and one of my favorite stories is when I dragged my poor older brother, he is 18 months older than I am. Off to school in the middle of a blizzard accusing him of being a sissy. And I was the one who ended up hugging a tree on the way home and saying, I can't go very dramatic for a seven year old. I can't go on, go get mom and get help. And he, he probably dragged me back to the house. But yeah, I also did a lot of really stupid.

Taking risks that I may not have taken as an adult, but once you start taking risks, it kind of feeds on itself and it's that adrenaline rush. And remember the first time I skied a black diamond, or the first time you're left ALO home alone Within newborn, there are lots of moments in women's lives where we have no clue what we're doing. . And yet we survive and we flourish and then we look back and we go, oh, that wasn't so bad. That was actually kind of fun.

Or, oh man, I never wanna do that again. Mm-hmm. , I was just at Hershey Park with my older, with my, both my daughters and my older daughters, two kids, and I rode a couple of roller coasters and I'm like, that was great and I'm glad I did

Stop from becoming that fearful older person because if we as women look at everything we've done in our lives from the time we were little kids, we did a lot of scary stuff. just reminding ourselves of that. The first day of kindergarten I was, I actually cried so hard. My mother had to stay in the classroom. Something that maybe I appeared fearless in first grade, but kindergarten I'm a mess.

Yes. So yeah, and also acknowledging your fears and saying, I never really did that before and it kind of scares me a little bit, but I'm gonna try, I'm gonna take that calculated risk.

As if I'm like some horrible being, but actually my younger daughter said, no, mom, I think you should stay in Arizona cuz you like the warm weather and you'll be happier there. So that was very wise of her to have. to counseled me that way. But it was interesting how other women were guilting me. Hmm. But I love your, your tagline. It's my time now because it is like,

I also wanted to ask you, you, you mentioned, well, I, I mentioned in the, in the beginning that you've really been in the forefront of technology and you still are, and again, it's not typical as women to. In their, in your sixties or beyond, or fifties or sixties to, to be in the technology world. So tell us about that and why that to you is important or,

And I've been told I have a knack for taking really complicated stuff and making, turning it into plain English, which to me is as important a skill as a skill as coding is. But my father who died young, he was 64, was one of the pioneers of fetal ultrasound. In diagnosing heart defects and unborn. Children, so, okay. I think I probably inherited his tech gene. My older brother is an MDP PhD researcher. My younger brother was a computer engineer, so it's probably somewhere in my blood.

But I've always loved gadgetry. Yeah, I've loved tinkering. . I did a lot of arts and crafts when I was younger, which is not quite the same as technology, but it's, yeah, it's figuring stuff out and solving problems and, and then when publishing was primarily an analog, Ludite industry. But when I started working at Citibank, I worked on the very, very first home banking system and doing the marketing for it and helping people learn how to transition from tellers to ATMs.

And I remember getting my first ever personal computer, which was huge. So I realized, . Now I'm gonna use like a 1960s housewife analogy the same way the vacuum cleaner revolutionized women's jobs. Yeah. In that era. Yeah. I'm like, whoa, having an Alexa is making my life so much easier. Or having an echo. Or I could just say, Alexa put such and such on my grocery list. Yeah. Or, Scanning stuff and having it in my phone.

So I'm all about humanistic technology and technology that makes human life better. And one of my big marketing clients right now is, um, a company called Radius ai, and their mission is to help retailers primarily right now, keep their employees safe and keep customers safe using. Technology.

So if you start to look at what's the purpose of the technology, it's not just for fun and games and turning yourself into an avatar, dancing on TikTok, some of these technologies are gonna be invaluable as we age and age. Tech is now a 2 trillion, expect to be a 2 trillion industry because we're all gonna need help of some kind when we can't, when we have mobility issues. eyesight issues or hearing issues.

Yeah. So I'm like 150% invested in technology that makes us smarter, makes our lives easier, connects us with other people. You and I would not have met if not for technology.

Thank you . Do you remember the first, like how did we communi, like when we had a big thing going on, like when he got his first job and how did we actually communicate? He goes, I remember going. On the payphone and calling you from such and such location. And I'm like, like, can you imagine? So the thing is like we have actually lived through it and and we need to recognize that we've actually have learned through that. Oh yeah. My

. Because we have seen it from the very beginning. Yes,

And I was just telling this story this morning that a woman had said to some, a mutual acquaintance of ours, you should get to know Nancy because we work in the same industry and this woman's who's 40 said, oh, I don't wanna hang out with an old lady. and I was like, whoa. Like this is a Y younger person. Are you serious? Oh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah. So there is just rampant ageism at, I was at a Halloween party last year where four 20 somethings were dressed as old people with walkers and canes.

And I said to 'em, how old do you think I am? And they look very uncomfortable. and I said, I said, come on, like guess. And they were again, even more uncomfortable. And I said, I am an old person and I don't have a walker and I don't have a cane and I don't have gray hair. So this is. ageism. Like I said, you wouldn't wear blackface to a party or pretend to be an Asian person with a takeout Chinese food takeout container. Why is this okay?

And , I don't mean to digress, but that's a good example of how you had this group of four young people who were that clueless about how what they were doing might be offensive. Offensive, yes. And they were like, oh, it's. and the media is perpetuating that. Mm-hmm. , one of my least favorite commercials is the one about turning into your parents, and the parents are doing like annoying

Not this woman who thinks I'm just some old lady, but that's her loss and her discomfort. Yeah. But I've, I've gained so much working with people a third my age, even kids who are still in college and their perspectives, their skills, their. their habits. I just learn so much from people at all ages and it really needs to go in both directions. Yes, a hundred percent.

And is that one of the reasons that you have this column, this Route 66, and it seems to now it's all kind of coming together, the Route 66, the, the comedy where you're talking.

Kavita Ahuja: And so what do you talk, what, what are some of the things that, some of the topics you bring up in your route? 66 . Can we give one example? . Oh. Like this month? My theme is body positivity, Uhhuh, . And viewing people as we age. More like classic cars. Rather than old conquers eat up. . Kavita Ahuja: Yeah, jalopies. Yeah. Yeah. That it's all how you choose to take care of your body and your mind. I start every day at 4 30, 5 o'clock. I have my coffee, I do wordle.

I. on my phone. I go to the gym. I am very, very mindful about my fuel, what I put into my body. I don't eat sugar, I don't eat weed. I don't eat most dairy, and really preserving myself so that I could be my best self up. Mm-hmm. to a hundred and beyond. I think we need to, and I think it's starting to happen. I've seen more celebrities. Saying that they regret having plastic surgery, that models over 50 are coming forward and embracing their scars and their wrinkles.

Yes. And I think we need to just, this is gonna sound very sappy, but we need to love e ourselves first before anybody else can love

Absolutely. And I love what you're saying. I mean, congratulations. I mean, I, for you to be able to get a. Four, four or five in the morning. It's, it's about our decisions about who do we wanna be, right? That's the word be. Exactly. That's not, and it's not. And I think it changes from who do we wanna be? Like, before it was like, oh, what do we wanna do? We have to do this. And then, but I think the question about who do we wanna be, and then it all falls from there.

But that can be at any age.

Okay, so what does the AA stand for in your name? ? The

Somebody who jokingly said, it's like Nancy a Shanker, which is kinda comical. And so I just left it there. And there actually is another Nancy Shanker, who's a yoga instructor in New York, and people were always getting us mixed up at doctor's offices and in a place where we had our information. So it also differentiates me from the other Nancy Shanker, and I kept my maiden name. I was the first Shanker in my family to not only. graduate college, but go on to law to grad school. Mm-hmm.

. So yeah, the Shanker and the A are just part of Nice. Who I am. That's a great story. That's really great.

And what a visionary your mom was.

really the best place if you go to either. , LinkedIn or Instagram, and you find my link tree. It'll have all of my sub links. What's next? I haven't been able to travel as much as I would like a combination of the pandemic and my mother's illness. Mm-hmm. sort of kept me close to home, but. I can work from anywhere, have laptop, will travel. Yes. I'm off to Las Vegas next week for a tech company partner meeting, and then the Fancy food show, as I mentioned to you.

Yes. And so combining work and play is way up there in my priority. . Kavita Ahuja: That's beautiful. And I just love your energy, you know? Thank you. And it, it just comes through and, and, and like, you just, I love the way you, you said that work and play. I, my business name is power purpose play. Play is so important. Our lives. And you just take advantage of who you wanna be and what you wanna do, and just enjoy it while you can, because we have, we have.

Rest, half, second half of our life to, to play and be who we wanna be, right? So, yeah, and you wanna play while you still have all your faculties and enjoy the, enjoy the world around you. So seize the day.

Number two, we are the generation of women that is writing this playbook for the second half of our lives. It's not the beginning of the end. It's the beginning of the. Number three, challenge yourself every day to do something that scares you just a little, because that is how you stay fresh and how you grow, and how you don't become a geezer or that fearful older woman.

Four. If we as women, look at everything we've done in our lives from when we were kids, you did a lot of scary stuff and remind yourself of that every day. Number five. Our generation in many ways is the most qualified to lead the next technology evolution because we have seen it from the very beginning. Number six, cross-generational collaboration is so important. You can gain so much by working with people of all ages, their perspectives, skills, and habits.

And number seven, we need to love ourselves first before anyone else can love. Thanks so much for listening, and if you enjoy this podcast, please do rate review and share. Remember my friend, it's your time now to recognize, acknowledge and tame your gremlins. You can write your own playbook moving forward in life. You've got this Till next time. Stay well and stay safe.