Monday 8/4/25 | Special Session Recap | David Haeg Grand Juries

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Live around the world on the internet at michaeldukeshow.com and across the state of Alaska, this is your favorite radio station and or FM translator. Hello, my friends. Welcome to Monday. The Monday edition of the show, and it is a, well, it's kind of a sad Monday in some ways. We watched the... We watched exactly how the Republican caucus became, I guess, was it Suzanne Dowling that called it the Overriders Caucus? They joined a new caucus this weekend, the Overriders Caucus.

We've got word and stories about what took place down in Juneau. The special session there lasting less than 30 minutes. And it's all over. That was it. is like the shortest special session in history. I mean, not technically, but I mean, you know, like one of the shortest special sessions on record. And, uh, and here we are, um, right back where we started in, uh, in the end of May, and I'll tell you all about it today. We're going to be going over...

All the things, the votes, the commentary, and more in our one this morning as we talk about what took place down in Juneau and where do we go from here. And we'll have all that here in hour one. In hour two, we're continuing our discussions on the grand juries. We had our conversation with Ben Carpenter and then we talked to Doug Engels. And now today we're going to talk. a little bit more with another person who has been following this grand jury

issue for years, and that is David Haig. He's going to be joining us in hour two of the radio broadcast today. We're going to talk to him about his experience and what they've been trying to do. Including an attempt to meet with the governor by Haig and Edna DeVries and Mayor Peter Machicke.

and others that took place here recently and we'll see where that goes as well that's all coming up in hour two today i hope you had a great weekend i hope you had a good uh a good time and got a chance to unwind and relax and get some things going on as we cruise on through August here into, into the end of the summer for this beautiful, beautiful summer.

Beautiful summer so far down here today. Just got up this morning, let the dogs out. Not a cloud in the sky. We'll see. We'll see how that proceeds. But so far right now. Couldn't ask for a nicer summer down here on top of the world in Homer, Alaska. And we're hoping that you enjoyed it as well. Well.

So I guess we should dive into this. It was unknown. Going into the special session, there was questions as to whether or not the governor's override would be... uh, would be if they would hold the line or not. And, uh, well, let's just say this, it, uh, there was no line being held, uh, this weekend. It's, it's kind of crazy. The 30 minutes that was, it was less than 30 minutes.

From the time they gaveled in until they gaveled out. They actually postponed the beginning of the special session from 10 a.m. to 1.30 because they didn't have one of the voting block was not there. Robin Burke, who'd missed her flight. From the North Slope down to Juneau. Had to catch a later flight. And so they waited around till 1.30 and they finally got it started. And when it was all said and done. They voted to override the governor 45 to, excuse me, 16. And.

Is that right? Is that the number? I'm trying to remember. It's been a day already, folks. Anyway, 45 votes in favor of the governor, of overriding the governor's veto. That means they have restored the $200 increase to the base student allocation. Now, surprisingly, because remember, the governor asked early on.

that legislators who were not in favor of the override spend you know not attend for the first five days that was a mechanism because the legislature from the time it gavels in had five days to override the veto before they would fail that. There's a five-day window there. But 59 lawmakers were present. The only one who wasn't...

was Senator Mike Schauer, who was excused. We talked to him this last week, and he had said he couldn't take off any more time from work, so we knew that he was not going to be part. of the uh you know we knew he was not going to be part of the special session because he was already committed uh to work everybody else was there um all other 59 lawmakers were present And in the in the end, it was members of the House and Senate on the Republican minority side who voted to.

override the governor. They were the deciding factor in this. Now, I guess I want to say that first and foremost, I don't think that i think that each member should be allowed to vote their conscience in the way they want to vote there's no there's no i'm not saying that the that any kind of caucus is a uh suicide pact or anything else

Although I will say that in the majorities, that's kind of what they've got. Because if you don't vote the way, if you don't vote in lockstep with the rest of the majority members, you will be kicked out. of the majorities. That's, that's what a binding caucus does. Um, and so while I encourage members to be able to vote their conscience one way or the other, and I'm not saying that they absolutely had to vote, um,

to uphold the governor's veto. I will say that I think that there was some pretty compelling reasons why they could have. The House members who voted to uphold the or excuse me to override the veto of course we knew that chuck cop we knew that louise stutes we knew that they were going to vote because they are majority members right and we knew that in the um

We knew that in the Senate, we knew that Kathy Giesel and Jesse Bjorkman and Kelly Merrick and Bert Stedman and Gary Stevens, we knew that they were going to vote in favor. They're all in the majority. But it was the minority members. That allowed this to cross the finish line in each body. The minority members in the house, Jeremy Bynum, Bill Elam, David Nelson.

Justin Ruffridge, Dan Sadler, and Will Stapp, and Julie Colom. Those are the ones that all voted in favor of overriding the governor on the House side. In the Republican side, it was Senators Rob Yunt, Mike Cronk, and James Kaufman that voted in favor of the governor's override. And this just, so FYI, this just passed. This just 45 was the required vote threshold. They got 45, not one extra. The only person to change their vote in in this whole debacle.

was Mia Costello, who had changed her vote from the initial override of the governor's veto to upholding the governor's veto this go-around. And her reasoning behind that was that she supported the cell phone ban and other things that were in the original bill, but she also believed in what the governor had said. Part of his reasoning. Had to do, of course, with policy, but also with the question of fiscal questions. How do we pay for it? How do we make all this work?

And, uh, so again, they're all free to vote exactly how, uh, you know, exactly however they wanted. This is not a, again, not a, not looking for a.

for a lockstep, mandatory lockstep voting. But again, the questions in my mind become, how does this fix what's fundamentally broken? In our education system. Right. That's that's really the that's the bottom line. How does this fix what is fundamentally busted inside of our education system? Because. I don't think it does. I think that this basically creates some real. But I think it just exacerbates.

some of the real problems that we have here. And it's frustrating. Now, I think the governor had a feel. Now, there are some quotes in there, Chuck Kopp and others. were quoted in a couple of the articles talking about they didn't know what they had going in. They weren't sure if they had the votes and that they should expect, you know, they were the Chuck Copps.

The recommendation was that people should expect to have to go down there and be there the whole 30 days and everything else. But I think the governor already had a feeling. of what was going on, because on Friday night, he issued a pointed statement criticizing the legislature and the leadership of the legislature for priorities.

saying that some of the lawmakers appeared more interested in overriding his vetoes than addressing what he describes as a crisis in public education. And not a funding crisis, but a policy. And reform crisis. His quote was in a statement on Friday, said the Alaska legislature will gather in Juneau tomorrow for a special session focused on public education reform.

and increasing Alaska's food and production security. There are reports that legislative leadership plans to hold at least two veto overrides before gaveling out and departing the Capitol building for the airport. He said that's a shame. No hearings on bills to improve Alaska's dismal student test scores. No effort to lift the public school system from 51st in the nation.

no tribal compacting to improve educational opportunities for our rural and native students, and no apparent desire to prevent high school seniors from being unprepared because they don't have the skills needed to compete for good jobs in an increasingly competitive 21st century.

is a shame. He goes on to talk about instead of focusing on outcomes, which is again, been one of the main complaints that we've had here on the show. Instead of focusing on outcomes, the focus has remained all about funding. Quote, public discourse is all about money. They say if we only spend more of it, the scores would improve. He says this is the same excuse that's been made for decades as soon as more money is approved the special interest groups and unions get very quiet.

He went on to talk about how Alaska has among the highest per student education spend in the country. And he emphasized that since 2019. state funding for public K-12 education has increased by over $1.5 billion. And that even after his vetoes, even after he vetoed just a portion of it, The most recent budget includes the largest increase to the BSA in state history.

Dunleavy said, the budget I signed this summer contained a BSA increase of $500 per student, even with my partial veto. That's still the largest BSA increase in state history. Now, of course, the... ADN, take a look at that school funding. And said, you know, when they talk about the one point five billion dollar increase, when asked about the source of the figure, a Dunleavy spokesman pointed to a document that summed every education. It summed up every education.

budget item approved by lawmakers outside of the base formula, including eight years worth of school maintenance and construction funding and $621 million in federal coronavirus relief funding. So, I mean, it's...

You know, even if he took out the corona, it's still almost a billion dollars in increase outside of the formula. But nobody wants to hear that. Nobody wants to hear about the outside of the formula. They want certainty. That's how they would continue to justify this. That's how they continue to wrap the flag around this stuff and say, well, that was outside the formula. We need fiscal certainty. And here we are. Here we are with an education system that we're one in four, don't even graduate.

Those that do graduate, most of them still have to take some kind of remedial math course to get into some base, you know, college level math courses. We're still 51st out of 53. That's it. And do people care? I don't know. Rick just in the chat room just made a commentary, said that Channel 2, which is KTUU, Alaska's news source, gave this story about five seconds. That's how long they covered this story.

I mean, I guess it's only $50 million. I guess it's only $50 million in a state where billions are, you know, I guess that doesn't matter. You know, all they're focusing on is the money. You know, they want that fiscal certainty. What about the outcome? What about where the kid, well, you're starving us. You're starving us. We're not failing. We're starving. Yeah, you are failing.

And I think I would argue based on things like what's happening in Mississippi and some other states where they're paying a fraction of what we're paying and still moving ahead by leaps and bounds and the achievements, you'd think that I... I think that that's a misnomer. All right, we got to go. The Michael Duke Show. Common sense, liberty-based, free thinking radio. If you missed the show, you can listen to it on your time with Duke's On Demand. Oh, and it's free. Like America used to be.

Okay. Okay. Okay. We are in the break right now. I'm sorry. I'm just trying to get that squirt away. Okay. Boom. OK. Yeah. Ben Carpenter says the NEA statement yesterday. This funding is a step in the right direction. But it is not yet enough. We must continue to invest in real dollars and collaborative solutions. I told you, I mean, they're saying the quiet part out loud now. It just doesn't, it's not enough. Not enough.

That's the question. Terry asked the question, how can we have fiscal certainty when we don't have the money? Well, I don't know. You better figure it out. You better figure out where that extra $200 million, $180 million, $200 million a year is coming from for the rest of time. I mean, you want the fiscal certainty. Better figure out where it's coming from. From now until the end. It's never going to be enough.

It's never going to be enough. Yeah. The education task force is their answer. That was something I haven't gotten to yet, but yeah, that's where they're going. You know, that's where they're going. Absolutely. Ben Carpenter's got a new link here as well. You don't want to miss this discussion on grand jury, says Ben. Go check out that link there.

Chris over on YouTube says special interests will always have just enough to support to keep the just enough support to keep the money flowing. Yeah. Yes, sir. I'm still scrolling backwards. Got up at 3.30, went to the couch. Oh. Rick is feeling about how I'm feeling. Last time I looked at the clock, it was five minutes to three this morning. That's the last time I looked at the clock as I laid down this morning. That's kind of how it is. That's kind of how today's going.

Kind of how today's going from just from the get go. Frank says, I'm not voting for anyone who says they're a fiscal conservative anymore. Well, I mean, you know, I don't know, Frank. It is what it is. I mean, do you then vote for somebody who doesn't say that they're a fiscal conservative? Do you vote for the other side then? Do you vote to just accelerate it? Yeah. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning.

Jim Clark says they had one goal, to continue to feed the state to an outrageous amount. Mission accomplished, Jim. Mission accomplished. That's what it's all about. Kevin McCabe says, say what you want about Dunleavy. The guy is a lifetime education principal and school board member. I'm pretty sure he and Dina Bishop know what they're talking about.

I mean, you'd think so, but not the way that they, I mean, you'd think that the way that he's being painted by the education lobby, that he has horns and a goatee and a pitchfork. collaborative solution in this context means nothing, says Brian, in regards to the NEA's comment. Yeah, what is collaborative solutions? What does that mean? What does that mean? Double rainbow, what does that mean? Yeah, fiscal certainty. Willie says, I'm totally bummed about the traders. Yeah, but are you surprised?

I mean, like I said, I feel like this at least was a win for the governor because at least he got it done with early on this time. Well, we'll see. We'll see where it goes from here. All right. here we go the michael duke show not your daddy wait sorry not your daddy Ooh, not your daddy's talk radio. I was scared for a second. Thought we were going down. Here's Michael Dukes and the show.

All right. Welcome back to the program. Common Sense, Liberty-based, free-thinking radio. We're talking about the vote this weekend. The... special uh the special session the special special special session I mean, it's like, wow. It's kind of crazy. 30 minutes, less than 30 minutes when it was all said and done. Less than 30 minutes. And here we are. And my friends, if you think that this is it, if you think that this is the end, well, you're not paying attention.

You you're just you're not paying attention because not only did legislators like like Loki Tobin and others. You know, not only not only are they saying the quiet part out loud of, you know, hinting around of saying things like. well, this is a good start and some of these other things. No, the NEA Alaska came out with a comment right after the override yesterday. NEA Alaska came out and said,

This funding is a step in the right direction, but it's not yet enough. We must continue to invest in real dollars. collaborative solutions, whatever collaborative. I mean, I don't see a whole lot of collab going there. Do you, do you see, I mean, I don't, what does collaborate, what does that word mean? Collaboration. What does that mean? Collaborative. But it is not yet enough. We must continue to invest.

I mean, we're already spending, what, 25, 26, $28,000 per student. We're already spending, I mean, big bucks, no whammies. How much is enough? If 28,000 doesn't do it, is it 29? Is it 30? Is it 35? Is it, I mean, what is the amount? What is the magical, mystical amount that will make it all work? And the answer is all of it. That's the answer. All of it. What do you got? I want it all. Then we'll stop and we can talk about it later. That's what the answer is.

And I mean, that pretty much sums it all up, my friends. That pretty much sums up the whole thing. Once we have all of it, then we're happy. Until then, shut up and sit down and give us our money. Now. I guess this is where I start asking questions about, this is where I start asking questions about the legislators who voted in favor of this. Now, I would say, like I said, the ones from the majority, that's not surprising, right? I mean, we...

Totally expected that. And there were the ones that voted in favor of there were the ones that voted in favor of of it during the legislative session as well. And again. No real surprise there either. We knew that some of those folks were going to dive into it. But people like David Nelson? I mean, come on, David. I thought that, you know, maybe we had a chance.

I thought there was a chance. I gave this a probably a 65% chance of being overridden. That maybe these other, maybe these other ones, you know, maybe, maybe it wouldn't happen. But instead, here we sit with a bunch of these people making that decision who we probably should have expected. You know, expected to maybe take a deeper cut at this. I just don't understand why. So David Nelson was a surprise.

I don't know Jeremy Bynum or Bill Elam. I've never spoken to either one of them. But I guess I'm a little shocked that there wasn't a little more. um uh a little more uh uh chutzpah coming out to at least have some kind of discussion dan sadler i mean that guy he just he I've never seen Dan Sadler take a really strong stand on anything. He's kind of the go-along-to-get-along king. Will Stapp, I'm really disappointed in Will Stapp.

Not because, I mean, I expected him to override it. But I will say that what I really expected from him, because he spent... He spent the entire. Sorry about that. He spent the entire legislative session going on and on asking the question. Who pays? How do we pay for it? All this kind of stuff. And in the end, he just kind of blinks. He's just kind of like, oh, no, this will be fine.

We'll add another $170, $200 million in spend from now until the end of it, because that's what this does, for those of you who don't understand, by adding it to the BSA. by adding it to the base student allocation, the legislature is now on the hook for this for eternity. I mean, basically. So it's not just finding that additional... you know, $200 million this year, it's finding that $200 million every year moving forward every year.

And so, I mean, here we sit. Here we sit, doing our thing, wondering how we're going to pay for it. And then Julie Colombe, who, I mean, I really like Julie Colombe. I really like her. I really do. But how? I mean, how? I mean, again, how do we pay for it? How do we pay for it? How do we make all this work? And not even even if we had the money like right out of the gate, the question is, is this going to fix the problem? The governor's not wrong.

I mean, if he wants to account for it the way that he accounted for it, you know, with the, he said that the one, because the governor talking about $1.5 billion in education funding since 2019. And he talked about all the items approved outside of the base formula, including the federal COVID money and everything else. But even if you use... Even if you use Sarah Montalbano's numbers that she put together when she was back with the Alaska Policy Forum.

it still shows an increase of over 20% in the last 18 years. So even if you don't use his numbers, Again, spending more and more and getting worse results. Rob Myers is fond of pointing out that in 2015, we were, so 10 years ago, we were. the highest funded per capita per student spending in the nation. And yet we're, we were still in the bottom. We were still 45, 46, 48. Out of 50 plus 53 jurisdictions. So, again, is there a fix for this? Do people care?

I just don't know. I don't know if people care if they're just not paying attention. And if the politicals are just making their choices here to feather whatever nest that they need to feather and.

keep whoever they need to keep happy. Obviously, that's the thing. It's not like it's somebody you can keep happy. Because again, yesterday, right after this vote, right after this veto... The NEA, this is a step in the right direction, but it's not yet enough. We must continue to invest in real dollars. So it's... There's more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more. That's where we're going with this. So I don't know. I just don't know. On top of that.

We still, we still, then we saw them vote against the governor's or vote to override the governor's veto of the. of the audit of the Department of Revenue and their audit statutes where the governor had been made an argument about separation of powers and they're saying, no, they want it in a certain way. And that also. passed. The override of that bill also passed. So we'll see what happens. And then, well, I guess, sorry, I'm jumping around here a little bit. On top of that,

They said, well, some of the governor's ideas are good, but, you know, we really need them to be, we really need that to be vetted by our task force. The task force that's led. by two NEA lobbyists, essentially. Two of the most liberal members of the legislature are leading the education task force, which is supposed to kick off here in 20 days, 21 days.

And they're going to wait to run all that stuff through their lobby, through their task force and see what's going to happen with it. I just, you know, again, I'm not... In fact, I got a text message that said, okay, it just happened. It said, okay, it just happened. The BSA override passed 45 to 14. And my response was, of course it did. Of course it did. You know, I wasn't really surprised. Still disappointed, yes. But was I surprised? No.

Because this is what happens in this state. Historically, if you were laying odds, this is what happens in this state. The government spend gets protected. No solutions. No, you know, they keep talking about stability, you know, fiscal stability. and predictability what about predictability of outcomes for the kids yeah that's the question all right we gotta go The Michael Duke Show. Common Sense, Liberty-based, free-thinking radio.

running on 100 pure beard power oh also some coffee we dip our beard in coffee nice beard The Michael Duke Show. Okay. Um... I'm totally bummed about the traders. Okay, that was Willie's comment from before. Brian says, you do what we tell you. Yeah, of course it is. Of course it is. Jeffrey just threw his hands up in the air. He's like, okay, let's burn it down and start over. Let's just burn it down. I mean, sometimes it feels like that, right? I mean, we have to restart from scratch. Yeah.

Fat Ray says collaborative means that the commies give the commies everything they want. This is why compromise is a bad compromise is not a bad thing in and of itself. The problem is when compromise is one-sided. That's the problem. Bipartisanship, says Ben, gave the education lobby a task force to promote their agenda. And one half of the funding to accomplish it and the political capital to secure the remainder next session. Yeah, it's coming. It's coming.

Uh, Brian says, can we adopt George Carlin's definition of collaborative? The word usually means some larger than usual deception is being carried out. That's, I mean, right. Right? And remember what I said, how much is enough? And then I said all of it. And then Jim says, Yeah, once we have all of it, then we'll start to tax. Because that's what's coming. This has just guaranteed the inevitability. of a tax because this, this is $178 billion, you know, um,

They didn't get the inflation adjustment because then it would just automatically go up. But I mean, $178 million, this go around. If they double that, let's just say they get another 700. That's still only 14. Remember, they wanted 18, 1900 on the BSA increase. So that's another 170. You know, if you make it all the way up to the 1800 mark that they were looking for.

Now you're looking at half a billion dollars a year, every year moving forward, more than what we have right now. You just guaranteed. You have just guaranteed a tax for the state of Alaska. And then Chris says, this is when calls for voting harder start up again. I mean, I don't know, man. I feel you.

I feel you. We keep voting in different people. We keep trying to change the formulas to who needs to go in there, try and change out the players. And then the players just get subsumed. And here we are. Here we are. Cassie said, I think it's time Bill Elam comes on the show and tells us why he voted to override. I've actually reached out to Bill once or twice. And I've never heard back. You know, I haven't heard back. So maybe we'll see if we can get him on the program here as well.

David says, what is what the hell is it with Dan Sadler? He's in a safe Eagle River seat. He has no worries not to override the veto. Well, but that's that's just who he is. He's always been kind of that way. He's never. I mean, Dan is a nice guy. Don't get me wrong. But he has always been very wishy watch. You know, which way, which way do I go? Who did I talk to last? That's kind of the way that I'm going to go.

David said, Julie Cologne will not be reelected next time. She has a great opponent. She will have a great opponent, he says. Well, I hope, you know, I kind of hope you're right. Again, very nice lady. has some good ideas, but also has some crazy ideas. This whole thing of healthcare and everything else is just, it's nutty.

But it is, again, one of the higher income areas around the district. So they don't care about the PFD and they don't necessarily seem to care about the size and scope of government. One day, Michael will figure out it's not whether you like a politician. It's what the politician does. I'm.

I understand that. I understand. I'm just saying I'm trying to make a point that I'm not attacking somebody based on who they are or their personality. I'm basing it. If I'm if I'm criticizing somebody, it's based on their policies. I understand this is how politicians are, Fat Ray. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to say that just because they're nice people, they do good things.

Well, it is what it is at this point. All right, here we go. Getting back into it. The Michael Duke Show. Common Sense, Liberty Based. The Michael Duke Show. Seriously humorous with a pinch of intellect. Pinch of intellect. Sorry. That is humorous. Here's Michael Dukes. Okay. We're continuing on here, our discussions about what's going on in the legislative special session.

20, I got that message, by the way. They, they gaveled in at one 30 and I got the notice that they had passed the override at one 52, 22 minutes. 22 minutes from the time they gaveled in to the time they gaveled out. So, I mean, yeah, no discussions, no nothing. No discussions, no nothing. That's that's just that's just how it is. That's how it worked. And here we are wondering where we go from here.

Well, I'll tell you where we go from here. I'll tell you what's gonna, I tell you what's gonna happen. And Jim makes the point in the chat room and he's, he's a hundred percent right on this. When I asked before, when I asked, you know, How much do they need? How much do they want? How much is enough? And the answer was, of course, all of it. More! Right? Yeah. That was the answer. Jim says, once we have all of it, then we'll start a tax. And that's, we've just guaranteed.

Well, we've guaranteed a couple of things with this. We've guaranteed the death of the PFD because again, coupling the things that we list, let's string together everything that we just talked about here in the last 30 minutes, right? So we've already voted to go ahead and increase the BSA $700 per student every year. in perpetuity. That's like 178 million-ish, somewhere in there. And then we tack on the NEA's comment.

The NEA's comment is this funding is a step in the right direction, but it's not yet enough. We must continue to invest. We know that their stated goal was over $1,800. we heard a couple different numbers one was 1963 the other one was 1800 and change but let's just say they come back next year and they get that they get that that second bite at the apple okay it's eight you know

That's nearly that's not that's not 178, 200 million. That's half a billion dollars every year moving forward. Well, that's pretty much the remainder of your PFD. It's gone. I mean, just forget about ever getting that again. And then once the PFD is gone and there's no longer an easy pot of money to draw from. There's no longer that easy thing to tap into. Well, then here comes the tax.

And whether it's a sales tax or an income tax or whatever it is, here comes the tax. So remember that thing that everybody spends so... butthurt and bent out of shape about and worrying about. And we can't, it's, it's coming. It's here. It's it's finally coming down the pike. And I guarantee you, when the when the when the tax does come, we will I mean, it will be the it will be possibly the worst. type of tax because we refuse to talk about we refuse to discuss it

And to handle it and to try and guide it and at least give us some kind of soft landing that if there does has to be a tax, it should be the least impactful tax. But no, no, it's don't worry because nobody wants to talk. Nobody wants to discuss it.

This is inevitable. This is what we've got. Oh, and that's not even, Politadick just said, DB, that doesn't even mention the defined benefits thing. Defined benefits and pensions are coming next. That's yeah, that'll be in there as well. We'll be talking about all the stuff and defined benefits and pensions. And where do we go from here? So, you know, yeah. Ben Carpenter said, do you want a PFD and a tax or no PFD and a tax?

Because remember, the old one was, do you want a PFD or a tax? Either or. Well, now it's not either or. It's going to be, do you want a PFD and a tax or no PFD and a tax? And, you know, at this point, I mean, I don't see how we pull out of this nosedive when it comes to the spending in the state. I don't see how we do it.

I just don't see an option to pull back out of this because there's just not the political will to get it done, which means you and I, if you're listening to this show, we're all in the minority. We're all in the minority in this state. And we should either just get with the program and just lie sideways in the public trough like everybody else, or just get used to disappointment.

Because that's where we're at. It's amazing. And of course, again. We've got this new educational task force, which is made up of essentially NEA-based lobbyists. I mean, NEA supporting... Democrats and majority members, they're the ones that are making up this whole thing. And what do you think that what do you what do you think? Can I can I make a prediction as to what the task force is going to find?

They're going to find that they need more money. That's what they're going to find. We need more money. We need more. Shocker, I know. But that's what they're going to come up with. We need more money. That's where it goes from here, my friends. You know? That's that's where that's where it goes from here. So we'll we'll see where it goes.

They will see where it goes, but I guarantee you this next session is going to be a free for all. It will be a funding feeding frenzy. Whatever available dollars are left, they will snap them up. If they can get them in education, they will. If they can get them in to find benefits and pensions, they will. Whatever dollars are left there, as the PFD kicks its last and takes its last breath.

Whatever money is left will be siphoned out to whatever pet project they want to get done to make sure that after that, there is no more. What does this mean for what does this mean for schools? I don't know. Again, they don't have a real they don't have a real plan here. But I think you'll continue to see the outflow from the regular schools. I think more parents will finally just say, you know, we're sick and tired of this. We're not getting the results we need.

I think you'll continue to see the outflow. So we'll have to see. All right. Yeah, and then they'll go out to the corpus of the fund. I mean, this is so, this is a bright and shiny, is this Tuesday? All right, we got to go. The Michael Duke Show, common sense, liberty-based, free-thinking radio. Back with more right after this. you All right, you guys talk amongst yourselves for a minute. I got to fix this light thing. It's bugging me. I'll be right back.

Okay. Accidentally ran over my own cord, pulled my own stuff out of the wall this morning. All right. Chris just made a comment. He's like, think positive. Think positive. We can't get lower than 51st. Just be positive. We're positive we can't get lower than 51st on this, for sure. And that is the case for sure.

all right i believe that we've got our guest on the line right now i believe david is ready with us can you hear me david i can can you hear me okay i can hear you okay all right good just wanted to test the audio before we get uh before we get too far along here so we'll uh i'm going to put you back on hold and we'll be right back to you here when the show starts in just a couple minutes okay no problem thanks okay thanks david hegg uh our guest

here in just a moment as we get things going on. David Boyle asks, what about the tribal compacting piece? How much more money will this cost the state and the federal taxpayer? Will the tribal schools demand more K-12 funding from the federal government? Similar to Medicaid funding? I don't know. Brian says, want to take a bet on the task force report recommending tightening up on educational alternatives? I mean, that's the scary part, right?

I mean, I don't have any more kids in school. So, I mean, I don't have any more dogs in this fight now. But, I mean, I fear for the people out there right now who did what I did with my kids and homeschooled them with correspondence allotment schools. I mean. They want to take those things down, folks. You know? They're going to take those things down. Make this a what? Make this a race issue? I don't want to make it a race issue, Henry. That's not what I want to do.

Miguel says, maybe our representatives just don't care anymore because once they retire, they'll be leaving the state. So it won't be their problem anymore. Food for thought. I mean, I actually remember having a conversation.

Um, with, um, Hank Hove, who was the borough mayor at one point in Fairbanks and then went to the legislature and then came back and, um, something about the comment of, well, it doesn't matter to me cause I'm retiring. leaving the state anyway. It was that kind of thought. I'm going to get mine while the getting's good, essentially, and I'll leave this mess for somebody else to clean up.

Willie says, just remember, Lyman Hoffman said years before, the PFD will be gone before I retire. And Bryce Edgeman said, we're taking it with or without the public's consent. Now, I don't know where those comments... Willie may want to cite my sources here so that I can see it. But I mean, that's kind of the feeling, isn't it? It's kind of the feeling we get that they're going to take it all and then some. Um...

Chris says, Chris Byers says mass migration, leaving Alaska to live in a state with no taxes on your hard earned money. I mean, the thing is, there's really not many states left, Chris, that have no taxes on your hard earned money. But at least in some states, you can go and pay taxes, and if you don't pay your electric bill, you won't die, right? That's the downside here.

Brian said the Alaska legislature never fails to disappoint. I am used to the disappointment. Yeah, that's true. It's true. I mean, like I said, I was not surprised to see this.

disappointed yes but not surprised um um i'm just scrolling back here to say Rick says there's no way out of this mess. uh out migration will be even greater once attacks hits i mean that's the thing that's part of the do that's part of the doom loop right that's the death spiral that i talk about once you have attacks which they say they'll have to implement because of, you know, the lack of revenue.

And the out migration, they'll point to those two things. And so then they'll institute attacks, which will force more people into the lower end, which means more people will move out to evade it or to escape it. Leaving a smaller pool of people to be taxed at the same amount because they're not going to shrink government just because there's less people. They're not going to shrink government. And that creates a smaller pool of people to tax on.

which increases that burden there, which in turn drives more people out, which in turn leaves lower, less people in the circle, which, I mean, it's again, it's a self-licking ice cream cone. It's a doom loop. All right. We got to go. We're going to continue here. The Michael Duke Show. Common Sense, Liberty-based, free-thinking radio. We'll be back right after this.

Buddy, put that thing back in its holster. We haven't gone anywhere. I don't understand. Check out themichaeldukesshow.com for information on how to get access to the podcast. Welcome to the party pal. The Michael Duke Show. The greed and the entitlement is astounding to me. What more could you want from a low-budget radio program? This is a dumpster fire. That was just BS.

It is time to get a new perspective. We know just what you need and we've got just the cure. Open wide and prepare for steaming hot cup of freedom. I just don't. Fathom it. The Michael Dukes Show, streaming live across the world. Live around the world on the internet at michaeldukeshow.com and across the state of Alaska on this, your favorite radio station and or FM translator. Good morning, my friends.

Welcome to the program. It is hour two of the big radio show. We spent hour one discussing the special session, all 22 minutes of it. That's essentially how long it lasted, 22 minutes. And the governor's votes getting or vetoes getting overridden and what the ramifications are for that. And I'm sure in the coming days, we will lament that and talk about that at length.

But that's it for today. Now it's time to move on to another topic. We've been covering the role of the grand jury here on the program over the last couple of weeks. We had Ben Carpenter on from Must Read. He went through it with us for a full two hours that day. And then later on, we talked to David Ignell, who is a who's a reporter and has written for the Must Read Alaska.

And it's talked about a lot of the stuff that's going on there. And he talked about what was happening in the weaponization of the grand jury down in the Southeast area. with the police chief there in Ketchikan and everything. Today, we're taking a slightly different tact. Today, we're bringing on David Haig, who has been in a tussle.

with the state over the grand juries for years. David's been on the program before to talk about his challenges, his personal issues, but today we're going to talk a little bit about What was going on with the grand jury here recently? The grand jury in early this year, earlier this year, a group of five individuals, including borough mayors Edna DeVries and Peter Machicke.

asked to meet with Governor Dunleavy and the Attorney General Treg Taylor so the group could present evidence of corruption requiring appointment of an independent commission to investigate in public. Particularly, the group wished to present one evidence that Marla Greenstein, Alaska's sole judge investigator for over three decades, is falsifying original investigations to keep corrupt judges on the bench.

And two, evidence that Deputy Attorney General John Skidmore and judges are illegally stopping grand jury investigations into Ms. Greenstein. However, the governor's office asked that the group meet instead. with Deputy A.G. Skidmore, one of the guys that they have a problem with. When the group countered with evidence of Skidmore's corruption, the governor's office then asked to meet with Deputy A.G. Corey Mills.

However, during the meeting in February of 2015, Ms. Mills, in opposition to the governor's request, refused to discuss the evidence that Ms. Greenstein is covering up corrupt judges. Further, she refused to discuss the evidence that Skidmore is covering up for Greenstein. Citing Deputy A.G. Mills' refusal to comply with the governor's request, the group renewed their request for a meeting with the governor and the attorney general. Unbelievably, they both refused to respond.

even though the evidence of cover-up now includes the disappearance of a Kenai grand juror, still missing to this day, which was also used by Alaskan judges to dismiss the Kenai grand jury's felony indictment of a judge who was exonerated by Greenstein. And it just goes on and on and on. Goes on and on and on. Joining us this morning to talk about this and more is David Hegg, who is a grand jury advocate.

uh, here on the, uh, Kenai Peninsula. We welcome him onto the program this morning. Good morning, David. Good morning. Thanks for having me on. Appreciate you coming on this morning. Thank you for being part of the show. All right, David, I want to, I want to. I want to break this down, break this down for me, Barney style. So here you have a group of people. This is not just people who, you know, you comb the, comb the woods and, and.

brought out a bunch of crazy coots from the woods. This is people like the borough mayors of the Matsu and the borough mayor of the Kenai Peninsula requesting a meeting with citizens and the governor.

and the attorney general talk to me about how this got started and then we'll walk through this okay well it well originally started with the evidence that cropped up against marla greenstein and you know citizens tried to get something done about that you know filed criminal complaints and it all went nowhere um Kind of fast forward, we finally figured out that grand juries are the citizens way to look into government when government won't investigate itself. In 2022.

After months and months of public protests out in front of multiple courthouses in the state, there was finally a grand jury started investigating. It's actually in Kenai. And the grand jury, by majority vote, voted to investigate Ms. Greenstein. And Judge Jennifer Wells came into the courtroom after they had voted and she ordered them to stop investigating.

And then she disbanded the grand jury. And so a group of folks started organizing a sit-in at the Kenai courthouse until that grand jury was brought back. and reconvened and allowed to finish. And that is when somehow another grand jury was convened solely to investigate. Marla Greenstein and John Skidmore and other folks. And so that happened in 2022. And what happened with that grand jury is beyond comprehension.

They were impaneled with the bare minimum of 12 jurors. The court rules said they were supposed to impanel 18, not counting alternates. No alternates were impaneled. Right after the grand jury indicted or subpoenaed Marla Greenstein, the Alaska Supreme Court made an emergency rule change that stripped the grand jury of their powers to indict and do other things.

And then one of the grand jurors went missing. And because one went missing, they were now below the constitutionally required minimum of 12. And so they were powerless to continue their investigation. However, before that happened, they wrote a report to the public on what they found. And that report was written when they had 12, so it should have made it to the public. But the judges sealed that so that we can't see it.

And so just, I know I'm getting a little long in the tooth here. We figured out that in a case in New York. city that had similar types of corruption, the mayor of New York City appointed an independent commission to look into everything when the system itself was, you know, it.

you know, indications that they were not doing their job and in fact covering up, they appointed an independent commission to investigate in public. You know, one of the problems with this Kenai grand jury is it investigated in private. or in secret right and because of that when they got when everything got suppressed the public has absolutely no information on what they found but if they had investigated in public you know like

When they subpoenaed and questioned Marla Greenstein, who, I'll add, she lawyered up and refused to testify. But if the public could see that in real time. There would be no ability to cover up what the evidence was that came out of the investigation. And so that's where the, you know, I asked a couple folks along with.

Edna DeVries and Peter Michicki to join me in asking the governor and attorney general for a meeting to make the case there must be an independent commission that investigates in public. not only to investigate Marla Greenstein, but to investigate the bizarre occurrences that happened to the Kenai Grand Jury itself. Now, this is interesting, David, because I know when we had Ben Carpenter on, he said that the state knows where this 12th juror is.

They know the locate. I mean, and again, this is if they were going to re-impannel it, it's not like the guy has disappeared into the ether. They know where he is, but they won't re-impannel this jury. And they're they're acting like he's MIA or she is MIA, I guess I should say. And so this. this really starts raising some questions. When you have your faith in the state shaken and when you have your faith in the judiciary and in the grand jury process shaken like this,

This is the last, I mean, this is the last and final bastion of public citizen oversight on the government. It is. raises the question that if there was nothing to hide, why don't they just, you know, impanel 18 grand jurors like they would do with you or I with alternates? Why don't they let the... You know, the indictments go forward. Why don't they give us the report? So, yes, I kind of sometimes I realize that this is a lot for people to.

absorbed but i like to think about it like this is that a bunch of citizen protested for months simply to get a grand jury investigation to address our concerns of corruption in the judiciary being covered up by the executive branch. And that process was the Kenai Grand Jury. And at the end of what happened with that Kenai Grand Jury are people's concerns addressed.

Do they now know that there's absolutely no corruption? Or with what happened to the Kenai grand jury, are concerns multiplied by an order of magnitude? Yeah, I mean, it definitely, again, even the appearance of impropriety is a problem for this because we know that perception in a lot of ways is reality. So even the perception. of impropriety is a problem with this. And the fact that the governor won't meet with citizens, let alone two borough mayors who want to discuss this.

is, well, I mean, I guess I would say troubling. In fact, you say in one of your emails, you say by refusing to act, they're facilitating incalculable harm to innocent citizens. And I mean, I would agree with that. If the people have a problem, and especially if they're able to rope two borough mayors into this to ask questions, they at least owe you a meeting to tell you why they are refusing to act on this.

And has there been this this email you sent out this email late last month? Has there been any movement on this at all? Has anybody reached out to you or the group or the mayors to discuss this? There has been no movement other than the Department of Law put up a new website with a new quote-unquote process for grand juries. Their process is provably, provably unconstitutional. And I'm just going to give you one example. And I know I'm maybe getting off track here a little bit.

is this new process backed up by the Alaska Supreme Court, SCO 1993, says citizens do not. And in fact, I think there was some statements by John Skidmore and Nancy Mead, who's the... court system general counsel that citizens do not and never have had a right to appeal directly to the grand jury okay so that is what's in this new process that you got to go through the department of law a whole

slew of attorneys have to approve a citizen going to the grand jury except the problem with that michael is that the 55 delegates who wrote our constitution said The right of the citizens to appeal to grand jury directly is an invaluable right. Now, you compare that to what is going on now. it kind of shows how, uh, bold or, or, or I don't know how shocking this blatant blatant. Yeah. And what do we do? I keep struggling to figure out what we do to address this.

And I've actually come down to, you know, like the civil rights movement in the 60s. It took just normal citizens stepping up to the plate and having sit-ins. You know, people like Rosa Parks, the Greensboro Four. You know, all of that. And what I am now kind of working on is either trying to get a governor elected that will appoint an independent commission to investigate in public.

Or if they're not willing to do that, I'm just going to start asking folks to go into the governor's office. You can't get into his office, but we can probably get into his building and just sitting down on the chair and saying, we're staying here until. A commission investigates what happened to the Kenai grand jury, what happened with Marla Greenstein. And, you know, of course, you would at some point probably be arrested for trespassing. But think of it. What else do we have?

We have exhausted basically every resource we have to get to the bottom of this. And I may be wrong. I don't know what to do. So I'm asking you and you're listening. What do we do? Well, I mean, my main question here becomes the major question of the time, which is who's watching the watchers? Right. I mean, the Department of Law, the judicial system, this is supposed to be, you know, the ones that protects the citizens.

This is the one that's supposed to be, you know, overseeing and supposed to be above reproach. But when we have the one system, the grand jury, that's supposed to allow citizens to oversee and have oversight of this, and then they disrupt, they disband. They roadblock it. Who's watching the watchers is the question, I think, of the day at this point.

I want to get into some of the details of what you're talking about here and some of the things that I mentioned earlier before we go, but we've got to take a quick break. So we're going to come back in just a moment. David Haig is our guest. We're talking about grand juries here in the state of Alaska and the governor's refusal to meet with citizens and borough mayors.

about questions on the grand jury and how things are being handled. We're going to continue in just a moment. The Michael Duke show, common sense, Liberty based free thinking radio. Don't go anywhere. Back with more and David Haig right after this. Bye. Bye. listened to by more staffers in Juno than any other show. Because their bosses told them to. And after what they just heard, oh man, they're gonna be best. You're a bad, bad man. The Michael Duke Show.

Okay, we're in the break right now. David Haig is our guest. We're continuing on here. Let's see if there's some questions in the chat room. If you have any questions for David. Now's the time to ask him in the chat room here. I'd love to hear what your questions are for David.

Chris asked the question, how many innocent citizens have been convicted of a crime they never committed because of a grand jury? Well, I mean, that's the thing. If they hold up the grand jury as the arbiter of these things and take people to. civil or criminal court based on indictments from a grand jury. And yet the whole grand jury process is called into question. That's part of that problem with the erosion and confidence in government. Right, David? It is.

Something else folks should know is that grand juries have two distinct separate duties. And this confuses a lot of people is on the one hand, they're there. indicting people based on evidence brought to them by prosecutors, evidence and witnesses, where the grand jury does no investigation on their own. And in those cases, because the prosecutor is the one that spoon feeds the evidence and the person being looked at is not allowed to do so.

It's a one sided thing and it's a rubber stamp. So they get the prosecutors get indictments. But what people forget is that the grand jury has an entirely separate. Duty. and responsibility and that is on their own or with concerns brought to them by citizens to investigate.

And so in the first instance, you know, with indicting, they do no investigation. They are basically captive of the prosecutor. And that's what most people are very worried about is because the prosecutor is using the grand jury.

to go after people. And the grand jury is basically an ignorant tool that is being used wrongly. But luckily, the grand jury has these rights in our Constitution. In fact, all states have it although it's been clouded like it's trying to be clouded here that on their own they investigate they decide what the evidence should be they decide to go out of the courthouse and go interview people

and get to the bottom of it. And that is being hidden and kind of clouded by the government because the government does not like that because that is the grand jury going after the government. without the government's authorization to do so. So I just want... And guiding of the process, right? I mean, and the government guiding the process. There are two different functions, the indictment and the presentment. You're talking about the presentment portion of it.

where they're supposed to be able to look into things and then present the issue as they see it, which is what this grand jury tried to do. Exactly. Yes, that is exactly right. And it got run right into the ground.

I don't know if I should get into this now, but apparently the grand jury... got rid of their state-appointed Department of Law attorney and asked for quote-unquote independent counsel. And the person they were provided used to work for the Department of Law. And in that position, he was the chief. assistant attorney general he was the one who investigated all of the criminal complaints against marla greenstein and exonerated her from all of them and so now he was

When he went into private practice afterward, he was then selected as the independent counsel. And when he was questioned, questioned about that, he said the system wants this to go. And this is an actual quote recorded. The system wants us to go away. And they pushed it to me because they thought I would be a conduit to kill this. Wow. Think of that. Yeah. All right.

We need to get back into this here, and I want to talk about some of the specifics, and we'll come back to that quote, because that is... I mean, because that's problematic at this point. And again, this is the same question that I had asked Ben Carpenter. You know, why is there, you know, why don't we have an independent, fully independent? support for the grand juries in their presentment phases instead of having the Department of Law, which of course is...

Again, if they're investigating the government, that's part of the government. Again, who's watching the watchers? And that becomes an even bigger question for me. All right. We're going to rejoin. Here we go. The Michael Duke Show. Common sense. The Michael Duke Show. Not your daddy. Wait, sorry. Not your daddy? Ooh, not your daddy's talk radio. Whew. I was scared for a second. Thought we were going down. Here's Michael Dukes and the show.

Okay, we're continuing now. David Haig is our guest. And we just, there's some bombs dropped during this last commercial break that we're going to get into.

But I want to go back here just for people who are following along at home and want to know. And because this is really not getting out there much, the news media has really not covered this very well. They haven't got into the details. And I know that getting down into the weeds sometimes is difficult, but we need to understand this. So let's go back in the first part of this statement that I was reading earlier.

You know, you wanted to meet with the governor and the attorney general so you could present the evidence of corruption that required this appointment of what you're calling for, which is an independent commission. And you wish to present evidence that Marla Greenstein is falsifying official investigations. Now, I know she's the only investigator and has been for 30 years. She's done something like 8,000 separate investigations into judges, essentially.

any call of corruption or anything else. She's the one that supposedly is into this. What is the evidence? What are we talking about here, David, with the Marla Greenstein? What is the... supposed evidence that you guys wish to present to show that she's falsifying investigations or what you know what's the what's the beef here give me the give me the the the rundown okay A complaint was filed against Judge Margaret Murphy that she was eating dinner with and getting rides with.

the main witness in a in a criminal case that she was presiding over and it was my case so you know way back when i filed a complaint it ended up going to marla greenstein and she said um Gather up witnesses to what was occurring and provide them to me. So I did. Gave four witnesses. And a year or two goes by and.

i talked to miss grain science says whatever came of that she said well i contacted all the witnesses and no one's seen anything no one you know what you claimed was happening did not happen well I had been appealing my criminal conviction, and it was for predator control on the west side of the state. During my post-conviction relief, Judge Murphy was put in control of my post-conviction relief. And I said, how can this be when my complaint is that she was conspiring with the...

the troopers against me to falsify evidence. So I tried to remove her from my post-conviction relief and that, and she denied it. So it was given to Superior Court Stephanie Joannidis. to review Judge Murphy's denial. Judge Joraniti says, Mr. Haag, go to all the witnesses that you have. And I'm thinking to myself, well, I already did this and gave them to Marla Greenstein. Apparently, nobody's seen anything.

Well, when I went to all the witnesses, every single one swore out an affidavit that they had seen everything I had complained of to Marla Greenstein. And they also swore that they were never contacted by Marla Greenstein. So I gave those four affidavits with the recordings, the tape recordings of Marla Greenstein saying she contacted all of them and gave it all to...

Judge Joannidis, and Judge Joannidis had her staff go through and certify and transcribe everything. And then Marla Greenstein sent it to the Department of Law. to the Alaska Commission on Judicial Conduct, which is supposed to be Marla's boss, to the Alaska Judicial Council, to the ombudsman, to everybody. papered the world with this evidence that Marla Greenstein, nobody even lifted a finger. And so then with that evidence, I filed a criminal complaint against Marla Greenstein.

Or a bar complaint because she's an attorney. And in the bar complaint or her response, she said not only had she contacted the witnesses I gave her, she contacted independent witnesses that. during her investigation. And so I ended up deposing the one independent witness. She said she had contacted. He, under oath, also testified.

that Marla Greenstein had not contacted him. And Marla, during that go around, that was written certified documents to the bar in which she did that. So now it appears to me. that she falsified the original investigation and then doubled down during the Barr investigation and then started doing that. And when I started putting this out to the world,

Innumerable people came to me and said they had filed complaints against judges. And every time Marla Greenstein had come in and said, there's no evidence. There's no substantial. Nothing is substantiated to. require a sanction of a judge or a removal from the bench. And so that's... The primary evidence that we have, there's innumerable other people who gave me evidence that I forwarded on. But the evidence I know best is what, you know, what occurred in, you know, with what I had done.

The second piece is that you said you had evidence that Deputy Attorney General John Skidmore and the judges were illegally stopping grand jury investigations into. Greenstein. So what is that? I mean, tell us the story behind that. What is that comprised of? Well, there was a grand jury in Kenai. Man, back in, oh, it has to be eight years ago now or so, they, I had given some grand jurors evidence.

They started to investigate and John Skidmore got on the phone. He wasn't in Kenai, but he got on the phone and ordered them to stop investigating in a court hearing. The judge. pulled the grand jury aside. John Skidmore got on the phone, ordered them to stop. The judge agreed to stop the grand jury. And again, you know, in our constitution as the power of grand juries to investigate make recommendations shall never be suspended and so the grand jury stopped and i

approached um it was at the time it was uh speaker of the house mike chenault and then senator peter machicchi and i said i don't believe that it's constitutional or legal for John Skidmore to order grand juries to stop investigating. Machicki and Chenault agreed to drive to Anchorage to meet with John Skidmore. And we got one of the grand jurors to go with. And at that.

meeting, John Skidmore says, because there was no concern of systemic corruption, I was allowed to stop the grand jury. The grand jury jumps up. And says, we told you it was systemic corruption. We told you. And he says, no, you didn't. No, you didn't. There was no concern of systemic corruption. That's why I could stop the grand jury. After that meeting, and, you know, Chenault and Machiki appeared to buy into what Skidmore said, and this whole meeting is recorded. There's a tape recording.

Well, after we got home, the grand juror, I tried to get the recording of when the grand jury was ordered to stop. And because it's kind of secret, I couldn't. But the grand juror managed to get. the hearing because it wasn't an actual grand jury investigation it was the preliminary um legwork prior to them investigating so there was really nothing that could be hidden

And he ended up getting the recording in court. And in it, John Skidmore is told by definition, this is systemic corruption and must be investigated. So what it appears is that he lied to Mike Chenault, Speaker of the House, Mike Chenault, and then Senator Michicki to justify him stopping grand jury investigations. And again, it's into Marla Greenstein.

And so, you know, then we took that evidence and a lot, most all the evidence, the evidence against Marla Greenstein, the certified evidence that. Judge Joe and Edie's put together. It's on the website, alaskastateofcorruption.com. The recordings of John Skidmore proving that he lied to Machiki and Chenault are on there.

You know, and like, you know, like you kind of say, it's like a train wreck. And then, you know, then, you know, like I said, during the break, whatever, I talked to you about what happened with Clint Campion, the supposed independent. counsel the grand jury requested yeah it it just the whole thing is

Beyond comprehension. Well, and I do want to mention that because you said that at one point the grand jury said we need an independent attorney, not somebody who's working for the Department of Law. not somebody who's part of the system per se. And the attorney that they end up getting is somebody who had just recently left the Department of Law and still obviously had ties back to it.

And you said he had a quote and you read a quote from one of the things that he said. And read us that quote again. Well, before I do, I'm just going to preface it by stating. When this attorney was working for the Department of Law, he is the one who personally investigated the criminal complaints against Marla Greenstein and exonerated her of all of them.

People must understand that if the grand jury now found that she was in fact guilty, what would that say about him? You understand? Right, right. And so when he was questioned, how he was selected. And why he never told the grand jury that he had already investigated and exonerated Martin Greenstein. Remember, he never told the grand jury about any of this. His statement, paper court, his statement is.

Quote, the system wants this to go away, and they pushed it to me because they thought I would be a conduit to kill this, unquote. That's... Troubling to say the least, I think is what I need to say there, Dave. That's troubling in many different ways. We're talking with David Haig.

who's an advocate for the grand jury. We've been talking about some of the corruption that's going on in the state of Alaska and asking questions as to who's watching the watchers. We're going to continue with this discussion in just a moment. David Haig continues with us in one more segment. Don't go anywhere. The Michael Duke Show, Common Sense, Liberty-based, Freethinkin' Radio. We'll continue right after this. Thank you.

Broadcasting live through a series of tubes. Allowing all of these entities to provide streaming stuff going on the internet. Well, it's kind of hard to explain. Sorry. Streaming live every weekday morning on Facebook Live and MichaelDukesShow.com. Okay, we are in the break.

And we are continuing here. David Tracer on Rumble asked the question. She said, Judicial Watch, might they be interested in helping here? Have you reached out to any other? Have you reached out to any organization like Judicial Watch or the Institute for Legislative Justice, ILJ, or any of these other organizations? I have. um mostly you know years ago and i didn't really get a response and so um you know now because things have

you know, coalesced more, you know, I probably should. But what I've learned, I guess, is that public awareness and broad public support is where we're... you know, kind of where we're getting traction. And so, yes, it's something that I probably should do more of. But early on, I did. I thought I had a belief in the system. And so, you know, I started going to all these entities, but I think.

You know, kind of back then, we, you know, and you can probably tell, I have a hard time being objective and... you know effective explaining what's going on and so I don't know I you know I'm a little burnt out on kind of doing that you know I probably should but you know I work a job I have two daughters one's getting married here in a couple weeks you know what i mean you only have so much time and so you have to you know

Your bandwidth is pretty stretched tight on that. At some point you have to, if you can't get any traction on it, you got to let it go. And I could see that for sure. And that's, again, I think that's in the end. that's how they win, right? You know, don't let the bastards grind you down. That's the kind of thing, but that's what they do. They grind you down.

To where you can't do it. And Frank makes a Frank makes a good comment here. He says, since jury duty is an inconvenience to the vast majority of Alaskans, they do not educate themselves on their rights and duties. And that's the truth.

Brian says the hoops people will jump through to get out of jury duty is remarkable, let alone grand jury duty, because it takes even longer. And it's right. We don't treat it as the... responsibility that it is because we're all busy we're all busy we're all trying to make a living we're all out there doing our thing and this is again in many ways just one more inconvenience for us but again if we don't watch the watchers who will

Yeah, and that's it in a nutshell. And I do think that when things are going good, it isn't probably as important for us to put effort into it. while we've been sleeping things have kind of gone off the rails and you know I'm starting to be more encouraged with you know the amount of you know, awareness now and how it's gaining traction fairly quickly, you know? And so, you know, you know what I mean, Michael, it just, it, it, it's understandable when.

we don't have an ox gourd, you know, why, you know, everybody's bandwidth is only so wide. And so why should they take some of their bandwidth to look at this when there's never been a problem? You know what I mean? But now there's a problem and we need to wake people up. and take some of their bandwidth um and that i think that's where we're at right now and i think that's why the department of law is starting to get worried is they see that the the knowledge of this

And the willingness to do something about it is growing. So, you know, am I, you know, not happy about how long it's taken to get here? Of course I am. You know, it's, it's. It had a devastating effect on my life, my family's life. But I can now see that we may be able to change things for the better for generations down the road. Right.

Well, again, we can't grow weary in well-doing, David. That's something that we say on the program quite frequently because eventually we can win if we just don't let them grind us down and we don't let it go. And there is a Frank just said, can you imagine a fully educated grand jury? And that's the thing. We don't even teach the power. We don't teach people what the grand, you know, everybody knows from law and order that the grand jury is about indictment, but nobody.

about present nobody talks about the function of the grand jury in watching the state and and you know that's that's the most frustrating thing in the world right there We're going to continue. Fairbanks just actually came back to us a little bit early. Hello, Fairbanks. Thanks for coming in and joining us. The Michael Duke Show, Common Sense, Liberty-based, free-thinking radio. David Haig is our guest, and we're going to be rejoining the rest of the radio world here in just a second.

The Michael Duke Show, Common Sense, Liberty-based, free-thicket radio. Hold to the line. Here we go. The Michael Duke Show. Proudly splitting the left versus right dichotomy. Yeah, I had to look that word up too. I don't think it means what he thinks it means. There he is though. That guy. Michael Dukes. The one with the show. All right, we're continuing with David Haig now, Grand Jury Advocate.

David, I was just saying during the break there as we came back, education is a huge component of this because most people don't understand. what the grand jury does they may have seen law and order and understand that it's about indicting criminal indictments and things like that but they don't understand for sure the presentment component of this

And maybe that's one thing that we need to do is advocate for more education on what the grand jury can do. Unfortunately, the education system is rooted in government power, and so they're going to spin things the way that they want to spin it. anyway, but more education on the grand jury side might help this situation. Don't you think? Of course it would. Um, and you know, we.

A group of us formed the Alaska Grand Jurors Association to try to do that. But there's evidence that they are intentionally keeping this information from the public. And what I'd like to point out is the... The Alaska Grand Jury Handbook, the original one given to citizens, I think it was back in the 60s. It has quotes in it like this.

quote, charges of crime may be brought to your attention in several ways by private citizens heard by the grand jury in formal session with the grand jury's consent. In other words, it isn't. And then another statement, a quote, is a citizen is at liberty to apply to the grand jury for permission to appear before it in order to suggest or urge that a certain situation should be investigated by it.

See, that's what the original grand jury handbook says. Now, the Alaska Supreme Court gets to write the grand jury handbook. They now say, if you have a concern, you have to go to the prosecutor. You have to go to the Department of Law. Well, if you've got a problem with the prosecutor and Department of Law, do you think he's going to run right down to the grand jury and give the evidence against himself to the grand jury and say, hey, these folks want me investigated?

Right. That's where we're at now. And see, the grand jury handbooks have been rewritten through the years. I was told at one point when I'm like, you know, how can it be that the delegates of this? that wrote alaska's constitution said all this in our grand jury handbook repeats none of it in fact is lying about what they said and somebody said well maybe the grand jury handbook wasn't always like that

And so I went on a research. There's a nice lady down in Juneau with the archives of the judicial system. And she dug this up for me. And when I read it, I was just absolutely floored. Yeah, no. They have scrubbed it. They talk about presentment. They talk about everything. Yeah, that's the problem. Again, what we're seeing is we're seeing bureaucracy.

In this case, the judiciary and the judicial system, the Department of Law, slowly interpreting things to benefit them and using their guidance as if it were law. uh to ignore the original verbiage to ignore you know what was originally said and then interpret it in their own way When Skidmore says, I'm going to call this grand jury off because they don't show any systemic. That's not what the Constitution says. The Constitution says shall not be impeded.

I mean, that's the thing. When they decide that they can write their own rules around that, that is a huge, huge problem. Yeah, and that's why we need to get to the bottom of it. You know, we had super high hopes about the, you know, the Kenai grand jury. They investigated for well over a year. I mean, you talk about a lot of time put into something. Right.

That was a tremendous effort. But now we can't trust grand jury investigations because we don't know who the counsel will be given to them. And so that's where, you know, we. What I've been promoting is the remaining 11 grand jurors, that would be the perfect independent commission to investigate in public because they already have over a year of investigation under the belt.

So what do you think about that, Michael? An independent commission to investigate in public made up by the 11 remaining grand jurors. And think of this, this is a concept that... I've been thinking about, and I'm going to see if you agree. If the Kenai grand jury asked for independent counsel and was intentionally given conflicted counsel, was that a legitimate grand jury?

investigation? You answer me that, Michael. Well, I would say that the investigation itself may have been legitimate, but the outcome based on the tainted counsel was probably is problematic then. Because their efforts may have been good, but if they've got somebody there who's advising them and running the ball for them, that's problematic. Well, the Clint Campion, the supposed independent...

He said the grand jury wanted to subpoena the Alaska Supreme Court. And he told me, well, I don't think they can do that. Well, maybe some other unconflicted counsel would have said, yes, you can subpoena them because. The grand jury apparently wanted to look into how the Supreme Court in an emergency session changed the rules to hamstring the grand jury in the middle of their investigation. And so.

How do we know that even the grand jury's own investigation wasn't impeded by the false counsel of Clint Campion? There might have been many avenues they wanted to pursue that they weren't allowed to.

Yeah, no, absolutely. I can see that for sure. David, one final question here as we run out of time. You know, what do you say to people? What's your response to people who say, oh, David Haig, that guy, he's just got an ax to grind. Right. He's just, you know, he's just going on and on about this. He's got his own thing. He was bitter about what happened to him. Yada, yada.

Uh, it's just, it's just ax grinding more than anything else. What's your, what's your response to people when they, cause I'm sure people have brought that up to you in the past. Um, what, what, what's, what's your response to that? And yes, I have. You know, heard that and dealt with that. I'll say this. The biggest storm in the world starts with a single drop of rain. And I think I'm the single drop of rain, but.

You should see the emails and the texts. And, you know, like we went to the Kenai courthouse. I wasn't by myself when we went there to ask the grand jury, you know, to protest. There were 70, 80 people out in front. of the Kenai courthouse when it was 10 degrees and blowing 30 and so you know it may have started with what happened to me and of course it did and you know

It is legitimate to say that I have an axe to grind because it did harm me and my family. And I'm very angry about that because it was done so unfairly and illegally that I started looking into it. But now. Everything else has kind of come to the forefront. And I think that everybody should look at, you know, if a Kenai grand jury spent over a year of their time to look into what I...

complained about and then others. In fact, there are many things given to the Kenai grand jury. Travis Stubblefield's death. I don't know if you know about that, but that was something that had come to me and I gave the grand jury, the Kenai grand jury evidence of what happened and a parent cover up by police and whatnot over the stabbing of their son. So anyway, you know what I mean? Is of course there's some truth to that. I have an ax to grind, but I'm just saying that.

If, in fact, Marla Greenstein's covering up for judges, isn't that of concern to everybody? Well, I think it goes to say that even though you have an axe to grind doesn't mean that some of what's being said is not true. And especially if you've got sworn affidavits saying that Greenstein never contacted people, never said.

when she doubled down on the bar examination and the independent witness said she never contacted me. I mean, just because, you know, you may be upset and just because you may have a dog in this fight doesn't mean that some of the things that are there may not. be true and don't need to be investigated that's i think my point on this yeah yeah and again you know i've dealt with this for so long that i you know pretty wore out and pretty jaded

But there is a very big problem. You know, like I said, when I may have butchered what the delegates said about the right, you know. But I have it right here. They say, quote, this is a quote from the 55 delegates without a single one dissenting. The grand jury can be appealed to directly, which is an invaluable right to the citizen. The Department of Law, the Alaska Supreme Court, and everybody else has said we no longer have that right at all.

I think that should concern everybody. I think it should concern everybody as well, David. I appreciate you coming on board and sharing this with us, giving us some insight into it. How can folks find out more? AlaskaStateOfCorruption.com. Correct. Yep. Or they're free to call me. And there's a we have another website, Alaska Grand Jurors Association dot org. It's a 501 C3. So, you know, if you donate to it.

100% tax deductible. So anyway, thanks for your time. Thanks, David. We appreciate it. alaskastateofcorruption.com. Folks, we're out of time. We'll see you tomorrow. Have a great day.

David, I wanted to give you one final bite at the apple here in case there was anything we missed, anything we didn't mention. You get the final two minutes here on the floor. Okay, well, I am... i'd like to i guess put this out there is the alaska department of law has this new process and a new website that basically is building a a uh

a skyscraper on top of SCO 1993 that the Supreme Court put in place. And I'm writing an article on it. And it is, I think, pretty compelling. I go through what... um you know what they're trying to build to be the gatekeeper i mean in the the The website itself, they say that because of SCO 1993, Alaska's attorney general is now, quote unquote, the gatekeeper to the grand jury. And, you know, I guess I just like folks to.

Be aware that this effort to chain up the grand jury is ongoing, and we need to do something about it, period. Yeah, what they're trying to do is they're trying to offer legitimacy to their bending of the law. That's what they're trying to do here. They've taken something out of context. They've created their own guidance.

through this uh through the supreme court order they've created their own guidance and now they're trying to build a build it up as a foundation and a wall so that you can't get through it even though it's not legally binding and not

not what the law says. And that's what's problematic about bureaucracies in general is that they do this. And we're going to get into that later this year with some other agencies around the state who are doing something similar where things that are not in law are being extrapolated. it out and they're saying, well, this is what we say the law is, even though that's not what the actual law says. And this is the same kind of thing where they're trying to give legitimacy.

to their interpretation of the law by creating websites and other things and guidance and saying this is how we're going to do it. When procedure and guidance have the effect of law but no statutory or constitutional backing. That's the problem. That's when we've lost control of the government. Yeah, yeah. And this, luckily, the people who wrote our Constitution did a damn good job. And I think this...

It's very likely may bite them in the hind end. Um, cause there's, there's, you know what I mean? There's a lot of times this process is, there isn't something that is in.

in such a revered position as the delegates who wrote our constitution directly opposing it you know a lot of it is it's subject to interpretation but at least this there's a lot of these things that are right are black white no when you have the delegates words when you have the delegates word saying that the citizen going to the grand jury is invaluable

is an invaluable part of what we have, and they are then preempting that by forcing you to go through the same government that's being investigated, that's definitely... a problem and a twisting of what the intent was so stay the course david don't Don't grow weary in well-doing. I know you're tired. I know you got a lot of things going on. Appreciate all your efforts. We're going to stay on this. We're going to keep talking about this. I appreciate you coming on and joining us today.

Yeah, well, anytime. And thanks again. And yeah, I think with broad public awareness, we'll be able to fix it. So anyway, thanks again. Show up anytime you want. Appreciate it. Thanks so much. Kevin McCabe, Rep. Kevin McCabe's in the chat room. He said, sounds like a train wreck traveling on a bridge over a river with a burning dumpster floating down the river. He says, I can't fathom it. This is a dumpster fire. And that I agree with.

100 keep fighting uh my friend uh stay uh stay in stay engaged and thank you david for coming on board and joining us we appreciate it all right folks that's it for today We are out of time for now. We will be back tomorrow. Chris Story joins us. Brad Keithley, The Michael Duke Show. Common Sense, Liberty-based, free thinking radio. We will see you tomorrow. Be kind. Love one another. Live well. We'll see you then. Have a great day.

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