On episode 47, I speak with Markus Watson. Markus has been a Presbyterian pastor for almost twenty years. He currently serves as Interim Pastor of Westmorland Community Presbyterian Church in the small farming community of Westmorland, California. Markus is also the host of the Spiritual Life and Leadership podcast and is the author of Beyond Thingification: Helping Your Church Engage in God's Mission. Markus lives in San Diego with his wife and three kids. In this conversation we discuss Markus...
Jul 06, 2020•59 min•Ep. 57
Episode 46 features a timely conversation with author, pastor, and hopeful theologian Derrick Day. Derrick Day literally wrote the book on Deconstructing Religion. He's a long-time pastor, the host of the Love Forward podcast, and takes his message worldwide on social media via Derrick Day Multimedia.Derrick unpacks his spiritual journey for us and takes a hard look at the history of systemic racism in America and the protests taking place around the world in the aftermath of the brutal murders ...
Jun 19, 2020•59 min•Ep. 56
Episode 45 of the podcast is now available featuring David Meyers. David is a father of 4 and has been married to his wife, Nicole, for 22 years. He is a touring musician turned pastor turned firefighter and is a singer/songwriter creating music with his band Of Light and Shadow whose music is featured in this episode. In this conversation, we discuss David's spiritual journey, why he left local church ministry, his music, and living a life with no regrets. The songs "The Arc" and "Wide Awake" w...
Jun 12, 2020•47 min•Ep. 55
All the way from Manchester, England, Phil Drysdale joins us for an in depth conversation about his spiritual journey, his intense study of the current deconstruction moment that we're in, how this new reformation started, and where it's headed. Phil Drysdale helps people who are in the process of losing their faith and hopefully helps them discover something much more beautiful to believe in. He founded The Deconstruction Network, a site dedicated to both helping those deconstructing their fait...
May 18, 2020•57 min•Ep. 54
Episode 43 of the podcast features one of the most encouraging people I know-Kyle Butler! Kyle got his start in ministry when he was just 13 years old. He was ordained at the age of 21. Five years later he was installed as the pastor of the church he grew up in. In 2008, Kyle received a revelation of grace that changed his life and ministry forever. As his understanding of grace increased, Kyle began to understand the unconditional love of God and humanity's oneness with God. Kyle is one of two ...
May 11, 2020•1 hr 1 min•Ep. 53
In this special episode, I provide a quick podcast update and describe a recent experience that I found helpful in healing the wounds of life. I was recently a guest on Todd Vick's very first episode of The Reconstruction Rebel podcast. You can hear that interview here . This week, I was a guest on Eric Nevins' "Halfway There" podcast. You can listen to that interview here . To register for the NOMAD 2020 virtual conference, click here . Early bird pricing ends soon so register today for the bes...
May 06, 2020•18 min•Ep. 52
Episode 42 of the podcast features Licensed Clinical Social Worker Seth Showalter. Seth is a co-host of the Fade to Gray Podcast and also runs a solo podcast called Mental. He comes from Southern Baptist roots and was headed into ministry until he realized he had same sex attraction. Seth has had an interesting journey and isn't shy about sharing that journey for the benefit of others.We discuss Seth's spiritual journey, what led him to pursue ministry as a vocation, serving as an intern at a me...
Apr 24, 2020•34 min•Ep. 51
After a COVID-19 sabbatical, The Messy Spirituality Podcast is back with Episode 41 of the podcast featuring contemplative and podcaster Eric Nevins. Eric is the host of the Halfway There podcast and the founder of the Christian Podcasters Association. He is also a husband, father, and seminary graduate. I really enjoyed this conversation as we discussed Eric's spiritual journey, how he learned to pray, why he isn't a pastor, moving toward contemplation, and his advice for those undergoing a spi...
Apr 13, 2020•41 min•Ep. 50
Episode 40 features a conversation with author, speaker, and activist Shane Claiborne. We discuss Shane's spiritual background and the evolution of his faith as well as what drew him into the struggle to overturn the death penalty in the United States. You can purchase Shane's paradigm shifting book on this issue, Executing Grace, here . Years ago, another one of Shane's books started a revolution of understanding in my heart and mind regarding social justice. I highly recommend his book Irresis...
Mar 29, 2020•45 min•Ep. 49
Episode 39 of the podcast features author and former pastor Bill Thrasher. Bill calls himself a uniquely ordinary guy. He's a life taught academic and a warrior who is at peace. Through experience, study, and prayer, Bill has found an amazing outlook on life and its ultimate purpose. He has a burning desire to share his story and its life changing insight with everyone. A U.S. Marine, husband, father, and love of life-Bill is also a passionate teacher gifted with a unique perspective and a skill...
Mar 22, 2020•53 min•Ep. 48
Episode 38 of the podcast features a conversation with Michelle Collins, soon-to-be Quoir author and the host of the podcast "Book Ish: The Canon Continues". We discuss Michelle's spiritual journey, being part of the church's inner circle of leadership, and what it's like when your pastor/best friend tells you to leave your church. We talk about the grieving process and psychology of deconstruction. You can find Michelle's wonderful podcast here . You can follow Michelle on Facebook . Be sure to...
Mar 15, 2020•51 min•Ep. 46
My friend, Todd Vick, and I just had a wonderfully "messy conversation" about the dark side of local church ministry, learning to be transparent, experiencing Jesus in a mental health support group, and Todd's upcoming book. You can find Todd Vick on Facebook . You can order Todd's incredible first book, "The Renewing of Your Mind" here. While you're on Facebook, follow The Messy Spirituality Podcast and join our private group exclusively for the listeners of this podcast, Messy Conversations . ...
Mar 11, 2020•50 min•Ep. 47
Thanks for downloading episode 37 of the podcast featuring writer, podcaster, and hopeful theologian Chris Harman. Chris is a Southern California boy living life in the low country of Charleston South Carolina with his wife Abby and his boxer Jaxon. A husband, bible student, film buff and hopeful theologian Chris loves fast paced theological discussion, great films, good bourbon and a nice cigar. His passions include social justice, rediscovering the church’s prophetic voice, and spiritual forma...
Mar 01, 2020•43 min•Ep. 44
Recently, I had the chance to sit down for a raw, uncut conversation about the current state of the church with my friend, author, and former pastor Karl Forehand. We discuss the following: Is evangelism still a factor in light of our evolving theology? Is it possible to be addicted to church? Is there a "best" model of church? Feeding the machine Would Jesus go to church? The Role of Women in the Church Purity Culture Finding community after walking away from church As you can see, this was a w...
Feb 27, 2020•58 min•Ep. 45
Episode 36 of the podcast features Martin Brooks, the Acting President of Peace Catalyst International! Martin was recently appointed the Interim President of Peace Catalyst International. Peace Catalyst is located in 15 cities and three countries and focuses on greater understanding between Muslims and Christians. Drawing on the teachings and examples of Jesus, Martin has worked with local churches and mosques to create safe spaces to ask questions and build greater trust between Christians and...
Feb 23, 2020•47 min•Ep. 42
A common question I hear from folks escaping the grip of the doctrine of eternal conscious torment is, "If God is that good then what are we saved from?". In an attempt to answer that important question, I'm recording a video series for our Patreon supporters and releasing the audio to all of you via the podcast. This message is just the start of the series and new messages will be added to that conversation over the next several weeks. You can get instant access to this video (and others) by jo...
Feb 21, 2020•24 min•Ep. 43
And now for something completely different... In this episode, I share some rough, unedited thoughts that have been percolating in my heart about learning to live at peace with God, ourselves, and the whole human family. I invite you to join me in praying the following benediction at the end:Creator of all Who keeps no record of wrongs Who points no finger in blame Who loves every member of the human family with scandalous love Teach me to see you, myself, and the whole human family through your...
Feb 18, 2020•29 min•Ep. 41
We're excited to release episode 35 of the podcast featuring author and podcaster, Josh Roggie! Josh is a graduate of Southern New Hampshire University and Ozark Christian College with a Bachelor's in Creative Writing and an Advanced Associate's in Christian Ministry. He works an ordinary 9-5 in the telecommunications world while spending all of his other time and energy telling stories that he feels people need to hear. He is the co-host of The Harbor podcast and the author of his heartbreaking...
Feb 11, 2020•35 min•Ep. 40
This episode is the fourth installment of our "The Church We Dream Of" series on our collective hopes and dreams for the future of the church. My guest for this final conversation of this series is recording artist/songwriter Derek Myers. Derek is a Los Angeles native transplanted in Atlanta, GA with his wife, Rachel, and two sons, Rayne and Rowan. In 2018, Derek released his debut EP entitled "Reign Freedom" with Furnace Music from Fredricksburg, VA. He is a diehard Dodger fan and shameless foo...
Feb 03, 2020•41 min•Ep. 39
On this episode, we continue our "The Church We Dream Of" series on our collective hopes and dreams for the future of the church. My guest for this third conversation of this series is prophetic artist "Naked Pastor" David Hayward. David has a Master's Degree in Theological Studies from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, a diploma in Religion Studies and Ministry from McGill University in Montreal, and a diploma in University Teaching from the University of New Brunswick. He served as a local ...
Jan 26, 2020•1 hr 1 min•Ep. 38
On this episode, we continue our series on our hopes and dreams for the future of the church with pastor, writer, and creative force of nature Father Kenneth Tanner. Fr. Kenneth is the pastor at Church of the Holy Redeemer , a charismatic Episcopal congregation in Rochester Hills, Michigan. In our conversation, we discuss his spiritual journey, his calling to ministry, and his aspirations for the future of the church. You can follow Fr. Kenneth on Facebook , Twitter , and Instagram . You can vis...
Jan 19, 2020•59 min•Ep. 37
We all know the dark side of modern church life. Many have been hurt by it and have disengaged from it altogether. In episode 31, we are kicking off a new series on what the church can be. I'm speaking with some deep thinkers and theologians about the church they dream of and discussing how we can get there from here. For the first episode of this series, I spoke to Eden Jersak. Eden is an author, speaker, and former church planter. She is a mother of three men and Grammie to one sweet granddaug...
Jan 12, 2020•44 min•Ep. 36
It was an absolute honor to spend an hour in conversation with "The Shack" author William Paul Young discussing his spiritual journey, his thoughts on the modern church, why we're terrified of a God who loves without condition, the role of Jesus in our faith, and shining light on some of the lies we believe about God. You can purchase Paul's incredible books "The Shack", "Crossroads", "Eve", and his latest, "Lies We Believe About God" here . Visit Paul's website here . You can follow Paul's work...
Jan 01, 2020•1 hr•Season 1Ep. 35
This episode of the podcast features author and theologian Thomas Jay Oord. In this interview, we discuss his spiritual journey, his first exposure to God's uncontrolling love, and the ramifications of a deity who refuses to control us and those around us. This is a theologically rich and thought provoking conversation full of meaning that sets us up perfectly to launch into a new year full of new opportunities to experience God's uncontrolling love. You can purchase Tom's incredible book, God C...
Dec 27, 2019•47 min•Ep. 34
We have just released episode 28 of the podcast featuring teacher and podcaster Laura Forehand. Laura is a second grade teacher in Tarkio, Missouri. She has three amazing grown children and two beautiful grandchildren. She was a pastor's wife for 20 years, up until she and her husband both went through different journeys of deconstruction. She practices and teaches a type of classroom management called Whole Brain Teaching. Through her deconstruction, Laura has shed the vision of the God she tho...
Dec 20, 2019•46 min•Ep. 33
Episode 27 features author and theologian Matthew J. Korpman discussing a radical new way of reading the Bible. Matthew is a rising biblical scholar, itinerant preacher, and theological arsonist. Currently pursuing his Master of Arts in Religion at Yale Divinity School, he holds four bachelor degrees in Theology, Archaeology, Philosophy, and Screenwriting. He has traveled and excavated in Israel and Jordan, and is proud to call San Diego, California his home. Whether you agree with all of his co...
Dec 13, 2019•1 hr 4 min•Ep. 32
In this episode I speak to author and podcaster Meg Calvin about her faith journey, learning to recognize one's own voice, finding peace within, and more. Meg's wonderful book, "I Am My Own Sanctuary: How a Recovering Holy-Roller Found Healing and Power" is available this Friday by clicking here. You can get more info on Meg and her book on her website. Meg is a co-host of The Listening Chair Podcast which you can find here . You can follow Meg on Facebook and Instagram . If you haven't already,...
Dec 06, 2019•41 min•Ep. 31
Episode 25 featuring Michele Snyder. Michele is the host of "The Redheaded Ragamuffin" podcast. We talk about Michele's history of escaping fundamentalism and learning to see God as a loving Father. You can find Michele's website here . You can listen to Michele's podcast here . Recent episodes feature bestselling authors Mary Demuth and Thomas Jay Oord. Subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode! You can follow Michele on Facebook and Twitter. If you haven't already, please follow o...
Dec 01, 2019•42 min•Ep. 30
In this episode I talk to Nazarene pastor and "There's a God in My Closet" author, Ben DeLong. We talk about healing our destructive ideas about God and the damage they've done. You can learn more about Ben and his work on his website here . Purchase a copy of Ben's powerful book here . You can follow Ben on Facebook and Twitter . Check out Ben's great podcast "There's a God in My Closet" on Podbean . If you haven't already, please follow our show on Facebook , Twitter , and Instagram as well. W...
Nov 25, 2019•27 min•Ep. 29
For episode two of our new raw and uncut series "Messy Conversations", I spoke to my friend "Jesus Undefeated" author Keith Giles. We talk about the three dominant afterlife doctrines of the early church, Keith's own evolving views, why it matters what we believe about the afterlife, and how Keith handles very public (and often, mean-spirited) criticism. Keith is a co-host of the Heretic Happy Hour Podcast . Check out Keith's blog here . Keith writes incredible books that challenge, educate, and...
Nov 22, 2019•58 min•Ep. 28
