Small businesses now. They are the backbone of our country and I know firsthand how tough it is, long hours, constant hurdles, and too often feeling like you're in it alone. And what I keep hearing from you is that small business owners don't feel heard. My team and I are paying close attention to our small business community and the feedback that comes to us through the Mental podcast. Now,
one thing is clear. You want to hear from more businesses beyond Sydney, from across the country, and especially those that are doing it tough. That's why my team and I are launching the Small Business call Out. The Small Business call Out, which will be under the Mentor channel, will talk to business owners all over the country every single week, no matter where you are. We want to hear from you. What's working, what's not working, What do
you need from the government to actually succeed? What are the things can you enlighten us about what it's like being in the small business community. This is yours chands to make your voice count. We want to hear from all industries, from those struggling, from those who feel overlooked, or those who have something to say but haven't had the platform to say it. I'm going to continue hosting the Mental podcast, but the Small Business call Out will
be uploaded between episodes. So let's get into this week's edition of the new Small Business call Out. What is the name of your business and in simple terms, what does your business do?
Yep, my name is Anthony Lloyd and our business is Lloyd's Building a construction we are we're subcontractors, so we specialize in commercial carpentry fit outs and we basically contract to the head contractors doing the carpentry components, which is just based off based off tendering for the project, putting it out bit submission and then you were successful. We end updooring commercial office fit out, schools, various various elements.
In that commercial sector.
And I'm the managing director along with my wife as she's not a director, but she's in charge as well.
So as a family.
Run business, where was your business founded and where is it located?
Found in Camera?
So I should state that as well, where a camera based family company started that in twenty twelve. Yeah, I can give you a bit more background if you want to. Yeah, it's still located in Camera. It's probably been twenty twelve. So would you say fourteen fifteen, sort of years now we've been doing it. I started off in my carpentry apprenticeship, did then decided to do a bit of work as a subcontractor, and then decided to go and start my
own business, probably in twenty twelve. And so I started that and started with me on the tools with one other person give me a hand, and sort of built it up from that.
Just hard work.
And I'm off the tools now our project manage and in the office full time.
So and what inspired you to start your business?
Basically it all started Originally I was with my grandfather that said he like construction, so, you know, stupidly, I'm like, yeah, that's a great idea. I wanted to be a fighter pilot, but that ended up being a bit hard.
So he was kind of my inspiration.
And then I was always always liked men hands on and seeing what I produce, and like, you know, it's a pretty cool thing. So that's what inspired me to do subcontracting. I guess, I guess I'm just just sort of I'm not afraid of hard work. I just like to get in and work, So you know, it's at the time I wouldn't if I forecasted it I was doing this. I don't think that's what my plan was, but.
Yeah, so we did.
I started doing housing, residential housing, frames, trustes and that, and then just ended up going into more commercial just camera based. There's a lot of commercial office use and sort of found a niche for that. And I said, I hated commercial carpentry, but I'm still doing it. Say there's it's good, good money in it's hard work, but it's yeah, it definitely pays a bill.
So how is your business doing right now?
I'll give you a bit of an array. It's quite interesting. There's a bit of a bit of a background to us, so we got caught up. So the business now, so circumstances now, it's it's quite hard at the moment. I'll give you a bit of a little bit of a brief on where we are now and then how it's been the past two years leading up to where we are now. We're probably in the best position we are now for you know, since COVID we've finally got some
sustainable work. But still, you know, they only lasted a couple of months where waiting for this selection to get called.
Because we find a lot of.
The decisions around work based on what we do is sort of getting put on hold and decisions aren't being made. So camera market at the moment is probably the quietest it's ever been, to be perfectly honest with you, It's usually quite consistently busy with the commercial, but everyone's struggling a bit at the moment and just sort of it's kind of I guess for us as a business, I'm having to work harder to keep the work in front
of the boys. I call it chasing a biscuit. It's like you know that this is always chasing work, chasing work, and it's mentally training. So that's where at the moment, like as I said, it's still good. But as a business now, if you're not prepared putting the extra work, it's you're going to get yourself undone. So I guess leading up to sort of where we are now, we've obviously it was off the back of COVID trying to run a business. We got caught up by three builders
going into administration. So we got caught up getting basically not paid FO one hundred and forty thousand dollars. So that was the past probably over the past two years so the past two years have basically been passed down, bum up, and just work your ass off to basically dig out of a whole someone else has created for us. So that's been a hard thing to stomach, to be honest with you, But at the end of the day, no one's actually going to get you out of it
except for yourself. So yeah, I've managed tome luck in a privileged position to get over that hurdle.
And now we're.
Kind of and that's also due to me having the business for fourteen fifteen years, Like it's kind of not fair that I've built it up since then. I've had to take a bit of a hip of that hard work. You know, that's the only thing that's kind of got me through. So that's yeah, that's sort of kind of where we're up to now with work in sort of things.
So just trying to basically, you know, wake up and generally was sort of like, well, I'm just going to make twenty twenty five, like my bitch, just have a good crack at it. So yeah, it's kind of where're up to at the moment. You know, I've got not that it's a thing. I've got it, you know, adhd as well as a business owner. So I've got you know, that gives me my superpower to drive. But yeah, it's it's pretty much no sugarcoating it. It's just like twenty
twenty five, it's been a hard couple of years. Just you know, get out and just as I said, make it my bitch. That's just but you could put it in a better, better terminology. It's a tradesman. It's a tradesman sort of just keeping it real sort of thing.
So yeah, what challenges have you faced as a small business owner and how do they impact your business and how did you overcome them? Did they affect your family members, did they affect your relationships? How did you solve them?
So I guess.
Challenges are and we've been doing a bit of advictousy stuff myself, mainly my wife.
She's very inspirational.
So challenges, the main challenges where you found was sort of started all back with COVID, just with.
Just with all the work and elements like that. It was I'll go back to that, so I think I'm thinking in my head.
So yeah, so we found COVID just trying to keep everyone employed and the arm.
Try to put notifications on, so we had COVID.
Trying to keep people employed during that process and just trying to keep the work up to it was quite challenging, and we kept all of our staff employeed just due to the fact that it was hard for everyone at that time challenges out of that, we thought, yelp, the
COVID is done. And I don't like talking about COVID because it's been and done thing, but it's it had an effect on the businesses a lot of them just with cash flow, that free cash that you had before that period of time you've kind of spent getting through the COVID period, so you know, the residual cash and you know the I say cash bank balance that you had, you kind of was chewing through that to try.
And just get through the other side.
So you get through that, and then you know your near as challenges. Our interest rates rise than which is a which is a thing for everyone as a challenge personally, but as a business owner as well, you know, it affects us because you know people aren't We're not so direct to clients, but you know, even the government stops spending money like small little office fit outs and little alterations that they used to do. You know, they've stopped spending money on that type of things here, I guess.
And other challenges are and you know a lot of people work from home now, so it's shifted. So government office fit outs used to be consistently doing fit outs and remodifying the surroundings and offices and that sort of thing. That's sort of you know, had a limitation as well. Challenges. The biggest thing in the construction industries are basically the materials have gone up massive, massive amount. Luck it's jip
rocks doubled in price. You know, for example, like plasterboard you've put in your house.
You know, you've got.
All your supplies. The main big supplies are still increasing as of now, and even with inflation, and it's sort of struggling to see how they can increase it. So much like this consumer wise, it's just it's ridiculous. So as a business owner, you've also got labor's fluctuating as well, with the price of leaving is going up as well, and people just think that as a business owner you just put your ais up.
It doesn't work that way.
Kind of business owners now, I would say running on tighter margins than they were before, So the margins are NEETs to nowhere near what the margins haven't changed since COVID basically, and since inflation, Like you know, they've gone up a little bit in terms of materials.
But because it's so competitive with the.
Inflation and all the things that's happening in the world, it's it's really if I want to put my prices up, I won't win as much work. But then you need to win work to keep people employeed. So I find a lot of businesses as well, and people going into you And this might not be one hundred scent crept, but there I feel like people there'll be more business going into administration, and that because you don't have the time and effort to put into your business at the moment,
it kind of that's where you get undone. So before you could have been a bit lazier and have a blowout with some materials and you know it'd be all right covered here and there. But because because you've got so many different challenges that you're having to deal with, it takes a lot more of my time now to
run a business. And you go, well, that's your decision, Yes it is, But some of the things that you're having to you know, it's just a simple things like checking your materials that don't blow out, checking your labor costs because you're trying to operate on a less of a margin. So you know, you put all of that into into play and you know that's your day done.
Twil The thing, how confident are you in Australian government's ability to support small businesses effectively?
That is a great question. That's a stark question, stick question for me. At the moment, I could confidently tale you and I'm just going to be perfectly honest, they're doing nothing.
There are I don't know.
The statistics as such, but the small businesses in Australia are quite a massive amount of the revenue for the government and there's no support.
Like it's.
What would you say, like, why don't they support us? It's just you know, I lost that as an example, I lost that money and there's literally no one, no systems, know, nothing to help me at all. Like literally I could have lost my house, I could have lost everything, just you know.
For the for I was just lucky.
I was in the position that I've worked hard and I had to take some equity out of my home to pay back the tax office for instance, like even even like the I guess the tax office like stuff like that. We found with them, they're getting stricter and stricter and getting back. You know, if you say, as a company you haven't had a tax debt over the years, you're lying because during COVID everyone was putting on payment terms and stuff with it with the ATO. So the ATA,
I guess they are government based. You know, the government could be talking to the AhR of somewhat assisting with that because they're quick to tax you on it and take your money off of you. But then the circumstances are we didn't get paid for one hundred and forty grand I still had to pay all.
My tax based on the job that we did.
But I didn't get paid it, and I still had to technically pay that, and it hurt.
We had a tax debt.
We had to pay basically down a lot of money for the banks to remortgage to restructure my house because I had an ATO debt.
So that's a big thing for businesses.
I guess that's what governments could do is look at, you know, the taxing of the businesses. I know, they're like, because of what's happened, they're coming after small businesses now more than ever that owe money to the tax office and those putting some people. Yet you've got to pay tax, as simple as that. But there's circumstances like ours that you know, there could be a bit more accommodating. But like I said that, the tax office and stuff is
like they're like robots. It's just like there's no there's no there's too many. Like everything's like straight one eighty. But then once you look at the whole, be a picture of what's happening in the world. People are doing wrong things left right and center, and you know, it's sort of yeah, I feel like the governments could be doing a lot more to support small businesses, even like even through the tough times like now, like.
It just seems no.
Like we've been trying to work with them and stuff, like even our local like federal governments be really good. Working a bit with my wife, the Act government. I'll tell you what they do not give two you know two f's about.
Us.
We've tried to reach out to them, they're not interested. They could be doing a lot more to support businesses as well, like I think businesses in general, like the Australian dream is to work, wake up, own a business, make good money, fend for your family. It's like should be the Australian dream that you get paid to have a business and the hard work.
But there's just there's no support.
Like literally, we're the only support we had was with that little COVID incentive money for a business, you know.
That's all. That's all we've had. There's been no.
Just yeah, I guarantee if you speak to every business owner in Australia, I can tell you right now that they're they're hurting and they're sort of feeling the same thing about the government.
It's just yeah, if you could advise Australian government on one acur to take to better support small businesses, what would it be.
I'd be suggesting, like, you know, a bit of tax relief, you know, in terms of that, Like it's it's looking at some businesses, like some people do the wrong So it's like looking at the people that are doing the right thing and working with them rather than you tightening it up and making it a harder situation. It's even like, you know, the government has nothing to do with inflation or anything like that.
But it's that they say they don't.
They say it's the main bank that they've guaranteed you right now, they've got, they've got they're involved in that somehow. You know. It's just just other things like even like just the economy and stuff like that. Just at the moment, there's no influx. There's no like, there's no influx in terms of like the work. They could be sort of putting out a bit more work, spending a bit more.
They seem to not be spending any money either. Like it's just with this election, it just seems everything is so stagnant, so like for the construction industry and things to start booming again, I feel like that they could be or sort of not sitting on their hands and sort of releasing money on the projects and getting through the projects to stimulate the economy again. Because at the moment, everyone's sort of construction wise. You speak to everyone, they're
not that busy. So to help us out it would be to you know, they're in a deficet I understand, but they've put themselves in that situation. But the biggest thing is the construction industry. I guess in general, is the biggest thing. So you get busy with construction. People are making money in construction, and they start spending money in terms of retail, and they start spending money at cafes because across the board even cafe shops and stuff.
Now you can notice that they're not as busy because people don't have the money to spend it. And I guess that's all to do with inflation. But once again, the government's got you know, it's a I think listening to something, the major banks have a stronghold on everyone. I think mister Barrus that as well. He was quite
you know there that they dictate to the government. You know, so it's like, wasn't the government take a bit of their own terms back and sort of start putting things in place to you know, like another thing too, is I guess to help business as well. We exit I don't know exactly, but we export a lot of stuff overseas and that sort of thing, like you know for businesses itself and Australia and STUFFI is like, what are they doing to bring more back into like manufacturing in
Australia and everything like that. And I understand that probably circumstances that we don't manufacture a lot of it is because our labor labor rates a lot higher and there's a lot more cost to do any internal manufacturing. But once again that that can be the government. Why can't the government be sort of putting in schemes or you know, waiving some tax incentives or something like that to be you know, start smaller businesses to be manufacturing again in Australia,
producing your own thing, like we live. We pay so much for everything. It's ridiculous because we get it all from everywhere else because where you know, I still reckon for Australia going forward and stuff like that. Manufacturing and doing all of that something that the government needs to focus on as well, which gives more jobs, even the construction industry, Like what could they do to help us?
The the reason why everything costs so much is because there's limits and tradesmen like the trades when are going to be the million dollar trades. Eventually there is not enough labor, so you as a homeowner will be feeling the price of additional building costs and everything like that. It's just because that's just the nature of how hard it is. So there's a lot of things that the government have control over that they could be you know, just a you know, like it's just it's just I've
kind of lost more confidence with it. To be honest with our life, I'm kind of if you're waiting for the government to help you along in.
Life, it's not going to happen.
You know. My advice to you is be an honest person and work hard and you know, do what you need to do, because that's the only thing that's going to get you through. If you're going to wait for at the moment, if you're waiting for a handout from the government or any assistance, then they're not there for that. It's you know, there's some different agendas going on and stuff like that. But businesses, small businesses in Australia are really starting to struggling fall behind.
It used to be the powerhouse of our economy.
Like I'm pretty sure I don't know the statistics, but you look at how much small businesses contribute to the growth of Australia, that should be their fourth foremost of their agenda to get back on, you know, even terms. I guess the thing to say to them too is like we're finding a lot of the government and politicians
stuff are removed from the normal world. Like you speak to some of them and about circumstances, and the actually don't understand how bad things are, Like just even explaining to them as a business and there's like, oh, what do you mean, you're not going to get that money back? You should get that money back, Like you're a politician. You guys make the rules. You're the ones that have put everything into place and created all the loopholes for people that.
Are doing the wrong thing to get around.
And that's how people don't pay you the money because there's too many loopholes and you're like, well, you guys, should you guys made the rules, you should know about it. That's it's even I guess a good example of like just speaking to someone in hospitality. They're sort of changing just the way casual workers are and everything like that.
Like I think from my.
Understanding, they've changed the rules now that we work for a certain period of time as a casual you have to there's no obligation, but you have to put.
Them on as full time.
So even as a small business and cafes and that sort of stuff, the fluctuation of works just so up and down at the moment that you can't afford to have full time staff on all the time because it's just so inconsistent. So you know, they're having to employ casual employees. But now there's a bigger picture of that now because they're changing the rules. They're getting pushed to put people on full time when theoretically you can't afford to put them on full time, but you have to
because that's the rules that they've got. That's you know, there's a lot of I find like even with us now, it's just the industry so like it's like a rollercoaster. It's like there's just up and down and up and down. It's like one day busy, one day or not. And then you have to be diverse and move people on
and you know, try and keep the good people. But then you know, you get put into positions that you shouldn't have to as a business say enough that you never used to before, even just I guess a bit of education too, and just it's just yeah, it's just no, yeah, it's it's very just it.
Doesn't make me want to go and just shut up shot.
And go work for someone because it's easier, you know, that's kind of and if the government's not careful, a lot of people are starting to get out of the I know, the trade because they're sick of just chasing the work, sick of having all the difficulties and the hardship materials costs. People are qualified tradesmen getting out to go and work for people on a full time basis
because it's less stressful. It's which you know, at the end of the day, you turn up and you get paid to do you know, eight hours and you get to go home and then actually spend time with the family and do the things. You're like, well, why wouldn't you do it? There's there no incentive there anymore to have a small bit business.
You know what's the most rewarding part of being a small business owner?
I guess the perfect example if my son had his regional swimming carnival, which is then yet step up, so I was able to sit with him for most of the day and watch him do his swimming. So, you know, those those rewards of the flexibility you work hard but then gives you the opportunities to spend that time with your children and to be honest, you know, even providing for my children like it's my children are very luckily lucky, privileged.
But you know, I wouldn't be able to do that if I didn't have a small business as such, I wouldn't have the flexibility to do a lot of the things I have in life. To be perfectly honest with you, if I didn't have a have a business, it's definitely given me a lot of opportunities in life. And to be honest, it's a positive. I look at it and go, would I do it again?
Probably not? But would I do anything different? No, I wouldn't.
Like it's I have no times, a bit tough at the moment, but I still have no regrets doing it. Like I'm telling you, if you've got a hard work ethic and you want to get a head in life, it's definitely that's the way to do it, is by having your own business and getting out there and putting yourself out there. So I wouldn't you know, as I said, yeah, a lot of it's a lot of negatives around it, But there as you said, there's a lot of positives too, like and I guess you know, to elaborate off it two,
there's been a lot of negatives. I've done a bit of soul searching myself. I've done some men's mental health these days is bigger than ever. I was lucky that I found Heart Led Warriors, which was run by Dan, and I had that through the tough times of my business and even our marriage. They have his wife, Nadine has a Nadine and Dan Muller have they have they do workshops and stuff, and we did that for our marriage as well, and you know that sort of thing.
Our marriage is better as well. You could say me and my wife Amy, our marriage is better. It's we've you know, you could say that that is a positive as well, Like we've some of the stuff that we've gone through, many people wouldn't be together any more. So I guess you could say we've grown with each other with that as well, we've grown with our kids. We sort of yeah, that sort of explains that. But yeah,
there's there's a lot of positives. And I've tried to change my mind thought from being negative to being because to be honest with you, there's more positives and negatives these days. But the negatives are the ones that stick with you and burn you up inside. And that's the thing.
Just what I want to speak to yourselves. Is just to sort of say that, you know, we're on the other side of what we're being through and to be honest, I'll tell you what not a lot of people in life go through that at the age that we are, and.
The fact that we could get through that is a testament to ourselves. But then.
There's a lot of other people like myself. I'm just I just you know, I've got ADHD or nothing wrong with it. I just like having a bit of an opinion. I like putting myself out there. A lot of people I think you'll find won't be as open and as willing to sort of elaborate on what they've done, which is the worrying thing because you know, the rates of suicide and mental health illness and stuff from running a business is I guarantee you very high, and it's very
concerning at the moment as well. So you just kind of want to reach out and tell people like it's okay, like go and talk to people, let them know how it is.
It's kind of you know, it's.
That's I guess if you go back to the government, back to that, But what could they do, Yeah, probably more more awareness around mental illness and you know sort of stuff around running a business and the mental toll it takes on yourself. Like, as I said, there's not a lot of people I'll tell you what I'm kind of so I still pinch myself and go, how'd I get through that period of time? Like I honestly didn't plan or didn't have a plan of how, but I
just group my teeth, shut up, get it done. But there's a lot of people that are in worse situations than us, and it's not as easy as just com down, head up, Like it's literally they've lost everything. So I guess, yeah, it's just want to keep getting the word out there and telling people it's it's okay, it's okay. If you're not doing okay, there's But I guess the thing is, you guys given this opportunity, and like what are the opportunities I guess to speak outside of outside of it?
You know what I mean, Like who's who can you go to talk to I guess about it, or who can you go assistance? You know, I'm just, as I said, lucky that I've put a bit of work into myself to get through it. But other people do need that assistance.
What is the one thing you wish more people knew about your business?
I guess that probably you know, just the stuff that we kind of do. I guess because as a business, where like we've done some pretty cool stuff like bill wise, but you know it comes under the head contractors, but realistically we're a big part of delivering that. Like as I said, that's kind of the reason why I got into it was you know, we've.
Done some clubs, like some clubs in Canberra.
I've done the National Museum, We've done various you know our kind of colamb works at landmarks in Canberra. Like there's like a regatta point and it's quite cool now that's sitting on the lake there and people come in and have weddings and all that sort of stuff. But we've done like all the carpentry where there and the hard work that goes into that. Like it's as a trade. It's a business. Obviously you get paid to do your trade.
But just even sometimes it's cool that what we've done and what we actually build in the community, like which I guess is kind of you know, it's kind of like you say to people, oh we did that mate. As soon as you say that, like, what did you really I didn't know if that's what you do, Like, you know, that's the type of stuff you do so without you know, wanting to blow your horning or anything like it's kind of you get paid to do it, but it's still you're still shaping the way of camera up.
You know, definitely that's we're camera based. It's just you're still shaping and you know, like a pretty cool thing we did was like fitz Roger Billion, where everyone goes to someone AT's every year. It's a big car festival. We did a pavilion there and it's scrubbed up quite well, and you know how I walk in there with my family and go, yeah, we're responsible for doing all the carpentry here.
You know.
It's that's that's a cool thing to sort of tell people what you've done.
Where can people find you and your business?
Let us know, Well, I guess I'm not quite an income on you for a shout out, but like I said, we had camera based.
We do commercial carpentry fit outs.
We mainly do a lot of our work to the main head builders sort of things, so we a lot of it's sort of closed books.
We tend to that.
But as I said, we're always looking to expand we're looking to eventually do bits and pieces ourselves. As I said, like without stepping on anyone's toes, they said, you've just
got to be a bit diverse in the market. But the main thing, like I guess, a bit of our story it's probably not the shout out for the business, but it's more so like our story we were we did me and my wife went on SBS Insight and that gave you a really good insight into the construction industry and basically elaborating on more of what we've lost and how and the circumstances, and that gives you great understanding of like what we're facing with and other things too.
Is like you know, my wife's jumped on the board the Master Builders of Australia as a subing supplier rapid Camera, so she's also there too to support trades and what she can as well, so like you know, you can reach out to her as well, and she's trying to do a bit in the community with you know, we want to work with the builders as well because they give us the work.
But we were kind of you know, I.
Guess that this shout out is like, you know, we're around as well, like we're camera based, happy to you know, see other small businesses as well of what they're going through. And you know, I can't technically, I can't make it all happy for them, but we can be a bit of a sounding board and tell them about our experiences and how we sort of got out of situations and stuff just to help people. So yeah, as I said, my intentionity is more like we're a pretty established business.
We want to keep growing the business. That's what we are in the process of doing at the moment. And they said, we're very a good privileged position, but you know there's other people that want to, you know, jump on board. And as I said, with the government, I find too like you know, shouting out. I just say, shout out with there's more, the more voices, the more numbers,
the more people can get you know, amongst yourselves. Like realistically, that's you know, if you have support and support behind you, that's you're going to get changed wherever you are. That's just the way the world works. So you know it's yeah, happy to chat with anyone. I'll see where you consists. As I said, Yeah, we're sort of pretty you know, we're busy doing our own little thing. As I said,
it takes a lot of time. But he said, you don't want to see anyone else go through what you shouldn't have to, so and we'll appreciate the opportunity and just hoping that this just it's a great segment that you guys are doing, because I feel like there should be more exposure to it because has said, we're all quite closed off and you know, closed doors. It looks great from you know, as I said it, has said one of the people, I'm starting to work with you,
So you can't you can't it's inside. You can't read the outside the bottle. You know, you can't read the outside of the bottle sitting in it. That's not the right terminology, but you know, you kind of basically saying you can't see what's outside.
So that's a that's a good thing. People just shout out and just elaborating.
It's hard, and you know, maybe I know, mister Boris is always quite good for small business and stuff to and that's hence why I reached out originally, because he always, you know, he said that that's the that's the driving force of our economy as well. So just businesses, do what you can to work with each other and try and help each other out.
That's all I can say.
Just be fair and try and you know, this is the times that we all need to band together and get through the tough times. It will get better, you know, it's not going to be a lot this forever. But just got to work together where we can't.
Mm hmmm.
Mm hmmm mm hmm