Small businesses now. They are the backbone of our country and I know firsthand how tough it is. Long hours, constant hurdles, and too often feeling like you're in it alone. And what I keep hearing from you is that small business owners don't feel heard. My team and I are paying close attention to our small business community and the feedback that comes to us through the Mental podcast. Now,
one thing is clear. You want to hear from more businesses beyond Sydney, from across the country, and especially those that are doing it tough. That's why my team and I are launching the Small Business call Out. The Small Business call Out, which will be under the Mental Channel, will talk to business owners all over the country every single week, no matter where you are. We want to hear from you. What's working, what's not working, What do
you need from the government to actually succeed? What other things can you enlighten us about what it's like being in the small business community. This is your chance to make your voice count. We want to hear from all industries, from those struggling, from those who feel overlooked, or those who have something to say but haven't had the platform to say it. I'm going to continue hosting the Mental podcast, but the Small Business call Out will be uploaded between episodes.
So let's get into this week's edition of the new Small Business call Out. What's the name of your business and in simple terms, what does your business do?
Yeah, well, the name of our business is Boxes for Business in a simplest form, we do things like packaging supplies and cardboard boxes. Basically, we make life easier for businesses by providing the cardboard boxes and packaging they need to peckt to a store and shift their goods. And we offer both new and second hand boxes which reduce waste and cut costs. And obviously all our boxes are eco friendly, so that means customers are not only protecting their goods but also protecting the planet.
How's your business doing right now?
Well, it's grown in recent years. We did start out selling secondhand boxes, which is reuse of boxes, giving secondhand boxes the second life and keeping them in circulation and out of landfill, and that's more prominent these days than it was in the past. But basically, cardboard itself is eco friendly because it's recyclable, it's highegradable, it's made from renewable resources and stuff like that, so it's all eco friendly cardboard boxes.
Where was your business founded and where is it located?
Well, Boxes for Business started back in nineteen ninety two on the north shore of Sydney. It was basically a home business at the time and it was about selling secondhand cardboard boxes out of the back of an old
Dodge truck. And you know, as demand grew, you know, the business group, we moved to an old chuck shed in Oxford Falls and then you know, various other locations around Sydney after that where we've settled until we settled in Pendle Hill where we are now, which is kind of near Paramatta, which is I guess is the geographical center of Sydney, so we've got easy access to businesses across the city.
And what inspired you to start your business?
Well, I've always had a you know, an interest, a passion for small business and entrepreneurship, and even as a young kid I used to knock on doors of the neighbors and say can I rake your leaves or can I put your bin out or whatever? Or for money of course, and then I've had you been involved and run different businesses over the years. I had a window
cleaning business and also a sign writing business. And that was back in the days when you know, signs were painted by hand and I had clients like Honda and you know, Votaphone and stuff like that. Then you know, technology changed and you know, things evolved, and I moved on. I ended up getting a job in a cardboard box and packaging come so I actually, you know, I was working there as general manager and I actually took over
the business rather than starting it. And since then, I've you know, I've worked in guts out to you know, try and make it into something that I'm quite proud of where it is today. So we're based in Penderbille.
You know where's the most rewarding part of being a small business owner?
Well, there's a lot of things that are rewarding. I mean, I guess, as I said earlier, like it must be part of my DNA. I've always wanted to own and run my own business and I don't really know why, but here I am. But you know, there's lots of areas of reward. I mean, I guess I went into business initially thinking that, you know, I can be the master of my own destiny and at least has the
illusion of that for a period of time. But even things like you know, being able to set my own goals and you know, work towards them, just on a more general level, I actually enjoy, you know, providing people jobs and you know, looking after employees and looking after customers and providing great service. For me, part of it is about It's not all about making money. It's integrity and making sure I do the right thing by people.
We have signs up in our posters in our office which say things like, you know, smile or you know, treat others as you want them to treat you, or do what we say we're going to do. So they're not just words on the wall. That's how we try and do business every day, because I've come across businesses that you know, try and cut corners or try and you know, over promise or even cheat their customers, and
it doesn't pay off from the long ones. So I guess, you know, I get a lot of satisfaction and pride from knowing that we've done our best to look after our customers and our employees. I mean, even when it comes to boxes, you know, as I mentioned earlier, I'm proud of the fact that we're involved and contributes to sustainability, but also the boxes part themselves. I get a kick out of seeing all the different purposes and uses that
people use boxes for. I mean back in the day, we even supplied boxes for Celebrity Apprentice when Mark Boris was you know, at the realm, and so I think the producers wanted boxes to put in and container to make sure it was full. So there's a lot of different rewards for running a small business.
What challenges have you faced as a small business owner and how do they impact your business and how did you overcome them?
Well, it's up and down to you the truth. There's periods of struggle, then there's periods of success and stuff like that. When running a business sometimes feels a bit like you're one of those inflatable punching clowns that you know, you punch it and it falls down, then it pops back up. So sometimes things come out of the blue curbles that knock you back down again, even when you think you're standing still. So there's a lot of challenges
involved in small business. So you know, things like cash flow, you know, getting money in you when sales dip or when customers don't pay on time, and I've often had to put my own money in to keep the business going, to pay the employees, to pay someone my own bills. And I know that's not just me, these other business owners that I speak to that are doing the same thing.
There's also challenges with things like equipment and vehicle breakdowns where you know, just the other week, my main forklift broke down the middle of the driveway, blocking everything, and we did our best to sort it out, but I couldn't because I didn't realize when I went into business how much of a maintenance guy i'd have to be
sometimes and that's not really my greatest strength. But more recently, one of the things that's been on my mind is workplace reforms that the government's introducing, and I'm not real happy about some of them, and I feel it's a bit imbalanced and you know, doesn't address some of the problems that small business owners have.
What is the one thing you wish you knew before you even started your business.
Well, there's a lot of sacrifices that I've made personally, and a lot of other small businesses I know because they're my main customer base. Other small businesses and I talk to them regularly, but things like you know, working late nights, you know, skipping breaks, for going annual leave or sick leave or things like that, or injecting my own money into the business to keep it going and
stuff like that. There's a lot of sacrifices. In fact that there's a joke amongst some of us business owners which is the only legal way to earn less than the award rate is to work for yourself. Every other way it's illegal. But basically, you know, running a business is not easy. And someone once told me the three rules of business success, and they were number one, persist,
number two persist, and number three persist. So basically, overcoming challenges is a lot to do with persistence and perseverance. I mean, obviously there's other factors as well, getting the right advice, surrounding yourself with the right people, all that sort of thing. But overcoming challenges, it's just like that clown that I said, you know, popping back up again when you get knocked down. That's a big part of what we do.
You know, how confident are you in this train and gup ability to support small businesses effectively.
Indigate that I'm not very confident at all. You know, I look up some of the stats, and you know, I've taken it upon myself to write to a number of politicians and not just you know, one party, like across the spectrum sort of thing, Labor, liberal, Independence, whoever, whoever will listen. But you know, on the last budget, the twenty twenty four to twenty twenty five budget, the government's put out a small business statement and it says
they're delivering a better deal for small businesses. Now, when I look at the figures, there's an organization called the Australians Small Business and Family Enterprise Organization, and they've got extensive documents, and in their documents it says things like, at the moment, forty six percent of small businesses are not making a profit and up to seventy five percent of small business owners are earning less than the average adult wage, and that's despite working longer hours than the
average employee. So that doesn't sound like delivering a better deal to me. And then on top of that, there's things like, sorry, there's things like the cost of living, which drives up business costs. You know, electricity insurance, you know, rent to all those sort of things. And then there's workplace reforms, which I touched on before, which you know, add more compliance, layers of compliance and stuff like that,
and just make doing business harder rather than simpler. So I'm not very confident in the government, you know, supporting businesses. As I said, I've written to plenty of a number of employee Sorry, no, what do you call politicians and stuff like that. And one of the documents I sent them was I sent you guys, was this document. It's quite extensive. It didn't start out, you know, that wasn't
that's evolved into that. But I found that some politicians don't even bother to get back to you, not even to say, you know, thanks for your correspondence and stuff like that. Some did reply, which I appreciate. It's always good to hear back from various politicians. I had method in my madness where I sort of tried to send things to politicians that I thought were responsible for different issues and you know, or had been involved at one
point in time. But sometimes the responses I've got, you know, there was long delays, or it was a limited response. Sometimes it was just copy and paste from for example, that document the small Business statement, and it didn't really address the specifics concerns that I'd raised, And that's one of my concerns, Like you hear a lot about small business, and you hear a lot about, you know, at least
with workplace, protecting employees rights and stuff like that. And just to make it clear, I'm or for protecting employees' rights, and I don't think people should be mistreated. But I think it's out of kilter, it's out of balance, and the focus tends to be more on how we're going to help employees and protect them, and that begs the question who are you protecting them from? You must be protecting them from employers, small business owners, they must be
the bad guys. And that's the mess, the narrative that's going out there, and I'm sick of that because you know, I provide employment like many other small businesses, I provide services and goods to the community and stuff like that which are beneficial. So I think the government is overlooking the whole range of issues because if small business owners don't speak up, no one's going to do it on
their behalf. Like I used to sit back and do nothing like many small business owners do, and think that it was all going to sort itself out in the wash and there'd be some common sense and stuff like that. But I realized, I'm not saying politicians are bad or whatever, just sometimes I don't think they understand, you know, some
of the issues related to small business. They've not had any real world experience and running a business, and yet they're making decisions about it, and I don't think that's a good thing. I was told, you know, in one response by politician, that they've had extensive consultation with employer groups about some of the reforms that have introduced. But you articles I read online and even you know what I heard on Q and A back in May last year,
said that there wasn't proper consultation, you know. So it's kind of hard to know what to believe sometimes. But it's interesting you asked about raising voices because when I was thinking about this interview, I remembered a movie I used to watch with I've got three daughters, and when they were young girls, they used to love Legally Blonde with Reese Witherspoon, and there's Legally Blonde one and Legally Blonde two, and she's like a blonde lawyer and stuff
like that. And she's standing up in front of Congress and legally blonde too, and she uses a haircut as a metaphor for speaking to the government. And she goes on to tell a story about how, you know, she booked an appointment at it exclusive so long, and you know, she was really excited about it, and she turned up and she sat in the chair and was waiting for
the things to be done. And then the colorist proceeded to put the wrong color in the hair, and then after that, the shampoo girl washed the hair with the wrong shampoo. I guess it wasn't designed for colored hair or whatever. But then she said the stylist a bob with bangs, which she said was all wrong for her. And she said her initial reaction was to feel anger, but then she realized that her anger was misdirected because
she just sat there and let it all happen. She said she'd forgot to use her voice, and so she's encouraging people to use their voice, you know. And that's what I'd encourage all small business owners do, to speak up about their concerns. It might not be exactly the same as mine, but I know there are some common ones. You know, small businesses are struggling in a number of areas, and I think small business owners should speak otherwise, you know, to put it in el Wood's words, small businesses in
this country is in for a really bad haircut. So that's how I put it.
If you could advise Australian governor on one action to take to better support small businesses, what would it be.
I've been on a journey, as I said, I've been writing to various politicians. I appeared like just to ask a question at the opportunity to appear on Q and A or ABS to just ask, you know. Firstly asked the minister who was the Minister for Employment Workplace Relations at the time Tony worked. I asked him a question about how they're going to support small businesses and make sure that the policies they introduce support not only the workers but also the small businesses that employed them. I
didn't really get the response that I'd hoped for. You know. I gave an example about the right to disconnect and how you know that is all about protecting employees, you know, personal time outside of work hours, which is fair enough, but it doesn't address all the personal stuff that employees sometimes do during work time, you know, which kind of balances the equation out and the employee. The minister really basically, you know, misrepresented the situation. Whether he just used poor
words or whatever, I'm not sure. But if there was one thing I'd say to politicians, and the opportunity to pier a second time. When Q and A back in November and I said, I think you should listen and address business concerns, and I go, you know, that was not long after the US election, and I said, you know, part of the reason some of the commentators thought Trump won is because he had appealed to the working class
people who felt ignored when they raised their concerns. And I've felt the same when I've raised concerns was various politicians. They sometimes don't get back to you, or they don't answer your specific concerns, or they give a limited response or copy and paste, you know, and stuff like that. So, for example, one of the things that I'm concerned about is payday super where you know, employees will be required
to pay super to employees every payday. And you know that's obviously to help employees make sure that they don't miss out on any stupor and to bolce to their retirement funds and things like that. It's all very well, but it doesn't address the cash flow challenges of small businesses who often have credit terms or you know, you know,
customs haven't paid on time. So it's basically we've got to pay money out more often when it hasn't actually come in sometimes and when I've tried to ask politicians, you know, how they're addressing that, they've sid skepped it. And one of the things I've done is I've sent you guys a box. But it was a little box, and I had a label on the side that said
Pandora's Box. And basically that was like a symbolic gesture to say, hey, this is how some politicians are treating these issues, is that they don't want to open it because they think it's like Pandora's box. Even things like wages there for example, And it's the imbalance that I'm more concerned about, Like they're targeting, you know, employees who aren't paying their employees deliberately, and that is wrong, you know.
But on the other hand, they're not targeting the wages theft of employees when they deliberately chuck a city, or do personal stuff during work hours. I've even heard on the radio where people are bringing in and they're saying, oh, you know, I told my boss I was in a meeting, but I went for a swim, or I played gold for I did this, and that that's just as much rageous theft as a boss, you know, not paying their
employee properly. And I decided to check out the figures for this sort of thing, and I discovered that the figures related to unjustified absentees and you know, with checking sickies and you know, doing personal stuff during unapproved personal stuff during business hours was actually higher and at the very best equal to the amount that you know was employers weren't paying employees. So if it's more, why isn't the government paying attention, that's affecting the economy, it's affecting
small business owners, it's affecting other employers. So I guess i'd say, you know, sorry, it's been a long answer, But to go back to question again, I'd ask politicians to bring balance to the situations, to balance the situation between both employees and employers. Because some of the organizations that are responsible for dealing with this. The course themselves called fair Work. So to me, fair is a two
way street, you know, it's not one sided. And I read a report recently on the what's called the Secure Job is Better Paybill, and there was findings that are viewed with findings, and one of the findings was that Australia has an adversarial industrial relations system and it said where you know, business groups and unions are often fighting over various workplace rules and regulations and stuff like that. But I think the government actually contributes to that by
not having a balanced approach to the situation. As we said at the beginning, it's also important to speak to other small business owners because we share common struggles sometimes or we share common goals and stuff like that, and
by working together, I think we can achieve more. So it's not just about speaking up, it's also about multiple people speaking up because I found, you know, I'm just one guy, you know, you know, as I said on Q and A once, I'm just a regular guy trying to have a go, you know, and I'm I'm not used to being on TV or doing interviews or whatever.
And sometimes that's easy for the government to ignore. That's one of the reasons why I spoke to the New South Wales Small Business Chamber because they carry more weight than you know, for example, someone like me. But I also wanted to go on Q and A, you know, to use that platform, you know, to raise awareness of
some of these issues. And I'd encourage other people to write to you know, their local member or to write to a particular minister that's involved with a certain aspect of small business and stuff like that, because you know, it's important and as I said, you know, getting help
when you need it. The Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Organization they sent me some various links to various information so that at least you're more knowledgeable about what to do and what not to do and stuff like that. And even organizations like Business New South Wales like they send circulars out sometimes newsletters, and sometimes I read them and I discover something I wasn't a previously and that helps me, you know, change the way I do things or do things better.
What is the one thing you wish more people knew about your business?
Well, I guess I just wish more people knew about my business. And you know the way that we help businesses run smoothly, but with the eco friendly cardboard boxes and handy packaging suppliers that we offer. I mean, we've got an easy online ordering system to make it simplify the process. And our aim is to grow our business and to reach more businesses and to expand our product range and make it as easy as possible for businesses
to get the boxes and the packaging they need. You know, I'm also proud of the fact that, you know, we contribute to sustainability and you know, help raise awareness of the environment and those kinds of issues because we provide practical solutions for businesses. So we're not only helping them protect their goods, we're helping them, you know, support the environment and stuff like that, which is a worthy cause.
Let us know where can people find you and your business?
Yep, Well, we're trying to strengthen our online presence. That's one of the goals for this year. So people can find us at our website, which is Boxes for Business dot com dot Au so it's b O X f O R b U s I n ews dot com dot Au. But also on our socials and you can access our socials through our website, you know, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram.
One of the things on our agenda this year is we're almost there, but we're releasing a number of promotional videos and things like that to promote things that we do and answer frequently asked questions and things like that. So I guess I'm saying watch this space. If you do, go on to the socials. But a lot of people, you know, we supply the cordboard boxes and packaging supplies online, so people can go online and have a look and see whether we've got the sort of things that they needs.
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