Paul Giles. Welcome to the Mental mate.
Thanks for having me on.
Mark. You are a co founder along with me and along with Andrew Nugent, and we are here at the Burdenhand filming this and we've got some great wines up behind us, and of course our great whiskey up the top and enough the boys can see. You want, mate, go for it please? Actually, I just love the way you pour it, the way you do the whole thing. You do everything like with such like.
Well, I think that's what it's about. It is. It's all about the theater, and it's all about the occasion in the moment.
Definitely.
I think it's pretty important in order to make sure that it's a big deal.
Thanks mate, Cheers, cheer. It's wonderful. Give yourself one.
Thank you.
I haven't had one for ages, haven't you No?
What's wrong with you?
Oh my god? It's gold. Look at that.
It is, isn't it. I'm pretty proud of it.
Whoa, that's fucking good? How good it is? It's so easy it is, isn't it. Yeah?
Man?
You want to go back? So, I mean, obviously we're in this together, but it's your show today, so I'm just going to I'm going to be playing my role, my roles you know the podcast. You know, I'm doing the questions and I'm not really going to participate much in the answer I got either all come from you. Of course you're talking on all of our behalfs. But it's about the story of how this business started off and you know where, and probably most importantly where do
where do you come from? So tell us about Paul Charles. First, talk about yourself. I know it's painful, talk about it.
I'm a I'm a Melbourne boy, born and braised my whole life. I got two older brothers and a twin brother, revolved around football, had a.
Twin brother after all these years, yeah.
Yeah, twin brother and two older brothers, and the two older brothers sort of made their life and set up the family by playing football. So all I wanted to do was play football, a football. Yeah, and the age of fifteen, I got kicked their head and got a fractured skull and a blood clot and a brain hemorrhage and fell into a coma. So my football dream sort
of went out the door. Yeah, sort of potted around at school and was sort of so lucky and so fortunate I ended up sort of overseas, working overseas for nearly a decade.
And what we're doing overseas, of all things.
I was in advertising was I was a model.
I know that.
Embarrassed to say. Can I just tell you it's nearly as old as a whisky. It's like a thousand BC. It was. It was that long ago, So and partner or one of the places or one of the destinations where I spent majority of my time was Japan, and that's where I developed my love for whiskey. Basically, really yeah, I'm the ritually what they did in Japan, I mean, which you know this because of you as well. That's it's based on the Japanese formula to be jalicate. It's
not peedy and what have you. But I'm big on ritual and big on the habits, and I'm big on tradition and stuff, and the Japanese it was just sort of part and parcel of their tradition and ritual whiskey, and that's where I developed my taste for whiskey. I mean, I mean, like, you know, growing up in a football environment and you know you're aiding into around you know, twenty five or thirty, whatever it may be. I sort of found as though alcohol and that's what we're in.
We're in the alcohol business, and you have to be careful. But sort of went from beer, and then as I've got a bit older and a bit more cultured, it
sort of shifted to wine. But I've always sort of loved whiskey, So whiskey has always sort of been my passion basically sort of thing, and probably was probably I mean, I've known you for what thirty years, but I think it was around ten years ago that, you know, we sort of were at an event and and you sort of turned around, said, are you guys interested in doing whiskey? And my ears pricked up straight away because been a
whiskey lover and things. And then all of a sudden we sort of got talking from there, and it sort of just sort of basically evolved from there, the fact type of thing that you're a whiskey bit of a connoisseur as well, and love it, and so did I. And Andrew's always loved it, even though his background has been wine and stuff, and we sort of put it all together, but there was there there there were certain
criterias that we wanted. Part and parcel number one was the fact that we wanted to make it a delicate whiskey. We didn't want to make it pety, we wanted to make it in the Japanese style. We wanted to make something that appealed to females as well sort of things. So and that's basically what we came up with, which has been an amazing ride and an amazing journey.
One of the things I found. I do remember sitting in the cellar door restaurant here around the close where we are at the moment, and I remember sitting there and talking to you and Nurge and Andrew, and we started it's funny how businesses can get cooked up. And we were just sort of throwing crap around, the stuff the crap around place. And and when the whiskey idea was sort of sort of becoming developed, we thought to ourselves,
what type of whiskey does it going to be? Is it going to be like you Jim Bean Marry style whiskey, Scottish type whiskey, and some of which is that peak type, heavy peat, smoky taste, and then the Japanese style whiskey. And there's probably other types two sky around with the Japanese type whiskey, which is sort of where you decided to go to when we're talking about that one of the things you just mentioned that is appealing to females. Now, I'm not a good at marketing alcohol because I don't
know markets alcohol, alcoholic markets. You guys do you and androw do? I mean, whine is your territory and you study these areas. Why did you say at the Times years ago? But why did you say the taste profile should also appeal appeal to females. Why did you think that was important?
Well, I mean, for a fiscal point of view, it's another fifty center of the market. But more so I was in the fact we I sort of found, as though, you know, that that females shifted from wines to Gin's and then they decided to sort of move to whiskey. They sort of wanted something that was just a little bit something they could sip, you put a rock in it. They like the sound of all this sort of thing. And more so I was in the fact as well that I just seemed to think it's pretty important to
have to offer a product that appeals to females. I mean I'm a bit like you as well. You know, and Andrews are saying, you know, we're in touch with our feminine side, and you know, the wine component of the business, Andrews business, you know, the large percentage of that is females as well, and I just think it's pretty important in order to have a product to watch for that beyond.
I mean, I'm just trying to sort of scratch around here and you on you because I'm actually curious because I've never really known the answer because it wasn't something that I thought of. I mean, I agree with it, but it wasn't something I thought of him initially. And apart from the obvious things fifty cent of the market,
Apart from that, what is it? Do you do you feel as though, particularly given your experience in the wine game, do you feel as though there's been women have evolved in terms of what they're prepared to be seen as tasty? Because like, if I go back to when I was a young guy and if a woman asked for whiskey, she's a drunk. I mean, I don't mean a disparaging but when I'm going back forty years, right, but today it would seem to be completely acceptable for women to ask for whiskey.
Definitely. I mean men were, even though he's sort of seen as a drunk too, you know, I mean used to used the old madman days. You used to walk in the first thing, and my dad was the same, used to walk in st thing. The first thing wasn't how young kids or anything like that. They're the own private bar and bang they needed a hit of something in order to just function. Slow down. Yeah, So so I think I think it's I think they've always just shifted.
I mean everything psychlical and everything moves in you know, in in trends and stuff. When we're dealing with a product here or too. You know, this particular product is in whiskey. That's it was created in the thirteen hundred, so it's two thousand years old. Wine was probably before that, was in the twelfth and thirteenth hundreds that century that
they say. So that's pushing even more so. It's been round for years and years and years, and everything will have its time in the sun, you know, trends and whatever it may be. And it was gin and tonics and you know, chardonnay was big, and now it's moved to savignon blanc, and then you know, so everything everyone's everyone's everyone's palette changes to a certain extent as they
get older as well. I always say that, you know, if I turn round in my future son and Lauren say come mate, let's go downstairs and have a beer, he'd be like, Oh, fantastic, this conversation is going to be football, surfing, weather, whatever it may be. If I turn around to turn around and say kind that we're going to go downstairs and have a glass of red wine, he'd be like, Oh, we're going to talk about architecture and art and a bit more cultured thing, a bit
more theater. If I turn around him and say, nope, we're going down having a whiskey, he doesn't know. What is not really confessional, you know what I mean?
It's you and I enough, definitely confessional.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I just find as it draws, the conversation is a lot deeper. I find as the everyone's emotions, they feel as though it's a bit easier in order to talk and get a bit deeper in the in relation to the conversation and stuff that's both male and female. So I love what it represents and I think I sort of made that observation when I was in Japan.
You know, when you when you're when you're when you're in the work environment, and they work hard over there that you know, if they'd have a have a beer, it was a little bit more lighter in conversation, what have you. And they have a sarky after that, and they just sort of start to ramp up a little bit. But once they sort of had whiskey, it was just like they really sort of they let go of a lot things and they just they were really deep in
their conversation. I was used to used to think, Wow, that's you know, is it because of their drunker or is it because of the product itself. And as I, you know, as I drank more whiskey, and as I obviously you know, got into the manufacturing side of it, I sort of find as I was just one of those things, there's something about the smell, the taste, the theater of what we just did before and the sound of the rock and stuff, and sit down. It's not a slurp it down as much as you can and
quick and so it can't slow. It's medicinal. It's you know, it's it's a bit like red wine as well. I just want to find it though. It's just got that serves its purpose in relation, and that's you know, it's three ingredients. It's water, barley and you know, an old barleyon. It's yeast, and that's it. You know, you think that you can make something so pure and so beautiful out of out of three ingredients. And it's been around, as
I said, since you know, thirteen thirteen hundreds. I mean, it's a long time in order to have a product around there, and as wine's are same, you know, wine's probably older. You know, it's been around for a lot a lot longer. And all it is is a grape, you know, at the end of the day.
So so if it's interesting, I part from the theater and you just sort of demonstrate the theater. And you do you think that it is much more conducive to deeper conversations or even slow, slower conversations because the nature of the way you drink it, you sip it as opposed to wine you drink and beer as you golp it. Even sort of other sparkly sort of drinks with mix mixed types, drinks like you know, gim bean and coca something. You're sort of.
Drinking this, you sip the quick yeah, on the very A lot of the times you sort of don't even sip. A lot of the times I just sort of put it to my lip sort of thing and then take it back. And then it's the flavor component that sits there. You know, you don't do that with with with with red wine and beer. It's like gold gold, gold, gold golp. So there's sort of you know, plus all I suppose you know the sugar component as well. It's a bit you know, it's a bit like quick quick quick. At
the conversation with this is just slow down. Let's just slow down.
And so how important do you think that is for today? So because I've done a number of shows here in Adelaide. We're in the Adelaid Hills, but like I was in the bruss Valley this morning, various other places doing various shows, and the theme of every one was take a breath, sit back and slow down the most important and get back in touch connect with people with nature, you know, with what nature provides, which is that's what nature provides provided that to us. I know it's people say it's
bad here and all that sort of stuff. It's not the devil incarnade. It's what something comes from nature. Sure, if you drink too much, if you do much, but the art of conversation. Do you feel as though that is being slightly lost and we need to sort of if that's something that is a mechanism whereby we can connect again, it's worthwhile.
Totally not. I mean, I think in today's day and age, you know, the most important thing and you've taught me that as well, is to be able to slow down everything so quick, everything so instantaneous, everything's like now sudden. If it's not on your table within a minute type of thing, what's going on?
You know, you blow up exactly.
And it's the thing that I love about And as you said, you know, it is alcohol and you have to be careful and any anything, you know, whether it's sugar, salt, whether it's fish and chips, any anything in excess is going to be bad for and alcohol is no different obviously sort of thing. But the thing that I love about it is what you hit the nail on the head, is that slow down. It's conversation, and you know, you throw the wine side into things there's food, there's connection,
there's love, there's family. You know what I mean. It's it's just it's one of those it's one of those products and one of those things in your life where very few of it or does it happen frequently, is the fact where it's just yeah, let's slow down, let's let's let's talk, let's get deep, let's read set type of thing, let's have some great food, tell me about this and laughter, and you know, in today's day and age, I think it's probably one of the most important things
in order to in order to slow down and more so connect, you know, not connect via phone, not to connect electronically. And I think that's what you know, wine and whiskey does, is in fact the connection. It draws people together. It's there's food on the tape, there's loved ones,
there's family, there's friends, there's conversation, you know. And I think that those particular things, at the end of the day, are they not the most important things in the whole world world about health, family, love, family, food, I think that's probably basically now to eat, isn't it.
It's funny on the way here, I mean, the guys, the team We're listening to the diary of a CEO CEO and he was interviewing a gentleman who's considered to be the godfather of artificial intelligence, and you know, he's in his late seventies. And I was just thinking, as you were speaking, then artificial intelligence is never going to have a whiskey with me. Ever, Ever, no robot, no computer, no software is are we going to sit down and
have a whiskey with me? And that's where artificial intelligence fails miserably, and that's something that's there's never going to repeat. An artificial intelligen has probably never been my plumber either. But still, you know that socialization that humans have that connection. Artificial intelligence doesn't connect to just deliver information that that is collected from certain way, but it doesn't connect and we as humans we need, we need totally do and
that an artificial intelligence will never supplant that position. And not only we see wine whiskey, but moments. Whiskey helps us deliver the moments, and that actually helps us absorb, in my view, the moments, and I think that's you know, my father passed away last year. But one of the things, as you probably recall, is One of the things I always wanted to do is create a bottle of whiskey, you know, because my father and in fact we're our very first we've got George. We've got to tuck to
for every is my dad's name. But I don't think we ever sold any know.
We've tucked away two hundred and fifty bottles. All we manufactured was two hundred and fifty bottles because we're going to bring it out of the special time and it might be your dad's you know, fifth year anniversary, or it might be ten years. And if it's it's ten years, that whisky itself will probably be twenty twenty five years old sort of thing. So we've tucked it away for a special occasion.
That's good. Hopefully the boys can get a bit of b roll later hiding because I don't know, but like, but I think I got a bottle. I got to I've got a bottle at home somewhere. But let's just go back a moment. So it's all very well, we've got whiskey and stuff like that, but like it's you know,
there's a lot goes into it. So can we just go back through operationally, because you know, you run all that, and all I ever do is respond to you send me photographs or you send me you know, you send me samples to try, and you know, we all try the samples. But it all starts with you and ends with you. And yeah it does, mate, You've done everything. You do everything, So let's just talk about how you chose, well, how you met Gareth whiskey maker. Where's the whiskey made?
It's not here right here where we are at the moment. It's made down a Fluria peninsula. Explain where that is? What's important about the fluurair peninsula in terms of you often talked about the salt in the air and I stuff like that. And I wanted then to take me through the barrels that the burdenhand has that we've tried somewhere whiskeys through and sometimes you've even put in Charonay barrels, et cetera. But they just take me through making the whiskey.
How you chose, why you chose Gareth, why that particular location, et cetera.
Well, as I said before, whiskey is only three ingredients, and the way that you get your flavor component is through. It's not too dissimilar to wine. Even though wine's more agriculture, it comes back down to temperature. It comes back down to climate, comes back down to the wood and the barrels in which it's stored in. So that's how you get your basically your flavor profile. As we said from the start of the show, we wanted our whiskey to
be Japanese and part and part of the Japanese. It's got a bit, it's got a bit of maritime about a bit of maritime, bit of saltiness and a bit of delicate and in that maritime it becomes you know, floral components and whatever it may be sort of thing. So once we got our flavor profile, what we really wanted to do, hence more so in the Japanese style,
we had to find the best distiller. We wanted the best distiller in Australia, and we got the best distiller in Australia and it so happened to be dan Fleurio Peninsula, where Andrew first when he first went into the vineyard business, you know, over a quarter of a century ago. That's where one of his first one of his first vineyards was down in that particular way. So there was connection he's also got a vineyard down that particular neck of the woods. Now, so everything sort of married up. But
the most important thing was Gareth himself. I mean, he's renowned, He's won hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of prizes and awards and just makes a fantastic whiskey. We are gonna he's going to move and we are going to fund his distiller and we are going to build a down at Finnis sort of thing.
So which is that is in the flu that's.
In the fluid Pinsul which is probably around yeah, yeah, where the three waters basically need you know, the Nurii the ocean, and that's why they call it the Fliero Peninsula. But you know it's it's about fifteen minutes from where Gareth is now. So there's you know, he's famil with everything. It still gives off that particular which we're which we wanted, you know, that that saltiness, that maritime influence, and there's actually totally not if the can get if the boys
can get a shot out there. I mean, you know, as I said to you before, the flavor comes from the wood, you know, from the barrels in which it's stored in. So sometimes you know, the barrels would be what they classify sherry barrels, it could be you know, classify as bourbon. Barrels would be classified as apex French whatever. Whatever the barrel is and what it is is you know, it's part of nature. So what wood does is it's
got a different it's got different components to it. And that's basically because as I said, there's only three ingredients. But the flavor comes from once it starts to get in the barrels. The higher the barrels, the hotter it is up the top type of thing, it will soak out and bring out more of the flavor component what the barrel has to offer in the wood in the wood. Yeah, So what we did because we wanted we want a bloodline obviously, and we wanted our own flavor. You know,
bloodline is in blood that that particular bloodline. But also we wanted our point of different so we finished off you know, once we found our flavor component, we finished off our whiskey in our nest egg chardonnay barrels. And if you know chardonnay chardon is a bit armandear, a bit nutty and slightly little bit buttery. So we finished our We finished our whiskey in our in a big hog which is two hundred and twenty five hundred and
fifty leaders. We finished it off in there just just to extract a little bit of that sharp Enney component. So when you do have a taste of it at the end, the final just that final little bit at the end, you'll sort of you'll taste that little bit of butter and that little bit of arm and in that little bit of nutty. And that's because of the fact type of thing that it sat in the sharp or for six weeks.
The barrel is made of what top would French oak.
French oak, Okay, French shoakes a little bit different to actually yeah, from France. It's it's the French oak trees there are a lot slower to to to grow where American oak type of things really quick, so they can extract the flavor out of it really quickly in relation to American where French choakes a lot more. You know, the flavor is bigger, but also it's a little bit slower and stuff you have a little bit more control.
So Burnhand uses French oise.
All our wines finished off as in franchise.
So and and then in terms of because I remember when I was getting the samples, they were clear, they weren't that color, and my god, they was strong because you know, the high high concentration levels of alcohol, and because they're just samples that it wasn't actual whiskey. And so maybe just take us through that process. So, I mean, I remember get a like example, they just kept coming and eventually we all agreed on which one it would be. I'm not sure if I actually how much influence I
had on that. I knew sort of pretty much. I was in agreement in general with what you do.
Guys, Palette, though I think you under say you but I'm.
Not sure as the one I landed on was what we ended up having. But nonetheless, so maybe you should explain how strong, because all I kept getting was a heavy alcohol. Yeah.
Cast strength is sixty five, sixty three, sixty eight percent and that's rocket fuel.
Yeah, that's absolute.
Rocket fuel and a bit it's a bit like how we I explained the architecture of the wine for you. You know, if we have a great year, it'll move into that next tier. You have a great, great, great year'll move into that next tier thing. But everything has to roll pretty well in order for the wine component, that is, in order for it to reach that level. Climate, water, the rain at the right time, harvest, you know, and
then the wine makers come in and do their particular thing. George, which will go back to the one that we named after you. That's that sits at that at that top tier is in the fact that it's a single cask. It wasn't blended with other cask in order to make that, and that is rare.
That's so the George whiskey we care.
Sat in one barrel and that and that was it and we finished it off ever so slightly sort of thing, but that is rare. So this these ones are comprised of three different barrels, twenty sixteens and twenty and seventies in order to get our flavor component. That's what Gareth does. So that one he might take and there's a lot of to and and fro, and there's a lot of tasting. So a lot of the tasting you did was let's
get the let's get the foundation right. So it's six sixty eight percent, you know, but you can sort of get an understanding of what it's going to be like to a certain extent. And then that's when Gareth comes in order the science component. It's like, okay, if I take thirty percent out of that one, take twenty six and a half percent out of that, and the rest out of that, what do I get? It's a little bit hot. Maybe it needs a little bit of that one because that one's got more of this and more
of that. So that's how that's what science within itself, even though it's three ingredients that every barrel tells a different story and office offers a different flavor profile. It's sat up there for longer, so it's extracted more. It's more heat, so it's extracted more of the flavor the barrel had, you know the thing. So that's what he basically did.
And does it get its color from the barrel? And is that from the barrels? Are from the skin of the wine, the residue inside that just.
Over time, just over time. With wooden things, you have a look at wood like woods all ways, you can see sort of thing. There's a brown component. We love that. We love, I mean, I love the color of that. That's that honey rich particular color. You know, and you lay out we got six different whiskeys here, and laid it all out that all could have a completely different color because it's come from a different different DNA, it's come from a completely different barrel.
And then when you consider because like we often talk about tasmanium whiskeys, and in fact there's some very famous tasmanium Yeah yeah, he started it, yeah yeah, but like and it got Sullivan's too, totally, and by the way, is best whiskey is the best, And it actually is up there with Sullivan's totally, but about a third of
the price, maybe more than the third place. Because I've seen some of the Sulovon's Francho whiskeys at nine and Bucks a bottle, like I have seen those, and in fact, I got one or two of those bottles because because I should say to everybody when we're going through the process of how to bottle it and how to package, because package is important, how do we sort of land on the bird. And we'll come back to that in
a second. But I went bought I don't know, maybe fifty bottles of whiskey, and I had all the bottle, different bottle shapes, different flavor, profiles just just French, Scottish, whatever, Australian had it everywhere and I've still probably got it because I don't drink. I'm not really a big drink I don't drink much, but I just did it to see what the bottles look like. And Paul ended up recommending this bottle. So just go through why this bottle shape? Why did you land on this?
I think the most important thing he was obviously it's liquid inside. And we knew that we you know along you know, with Gareth and Andrew's palette and you know yourself and stuff like that, that we had the best juice and the best liquid. But it was it was a just there was a decision making process that needed
two things to consider. I think number one was the fact that which we spoke about before, I wanted it to appeal to females as well, and I sort of felt as though that this particular bottle shaped where others were too masculine, but I felt that there was enough masculinity in order to appeal to a male as well. So I sort of felt as though that the shape of this and you know, the weight of it and the size of it and whatever it may be everything
else is. There's a bit of Chanelle five about it. Yeah, you know, so there was that appealing factor and that that appealed to me as well, that for females, but also felt as though it was masculine enough for a man as well. It's a bit of a hip flask and a bit tough and a bit you know, and and also I just I like the width of it. I like the factor it's like to hold and what have you. And we wanted it minimal. We wanted everything minimal. We wanted no stickers, we wanted you know, we didn't
want labels on it. So that is actually car paint that goes through a three step process. It gets stamped, gets baked, and then they do it each side basically sort of thing. So it's a long process in order to have even though it looks minimal, it's a long process in order to make sure that we got it right. And that's what we know. It started with Andrew and you can see here that if the boys do a little bit of a tour later on, it's all about
the detail. And there's absolutely nothing wrong to come in with an eight point five or a nine point one, but we're always nine point nine or don't do it at all. So we're big on the attention to detail in every single thing, in every aspect. And as I said, the most important thing was the juice. And Gareth he was tarnished. He's got the same DNA. It's about the detail to the absolute nth. And then if we felt a lot of you gave me and Andrew gave me
the erection in order to explore more. And we just sort of felt as that every single detail had to be a nine point nine and that come back to the highest grade core. Even the stopper exactly the stop, highest grade pork, it's wood, it's firebranded. You know, as I said that this is you know, this is this goes through a massive process just in order to do you know, to have the logo in relation to you know,
it's car paints. It's so it's extraordinary what goes. But at the end of the day, we just wanted to make sure that we had something we were proud of, not only externally, but the most important thing was internally. And that's what people are going to pay for. You know that there's thousands of good wineries and good wines out there and there's thousands of good whiskeys out there, But what we wanted to do was just to provide
an experience. And that experience comes back down to what we spoke about before, you know, connection, conversation, people, food, family, laughter, you know, and I think that those particular things are really important. So we wanted to be authentic. Mark, I mean, you know, the thing is and that's what you taught me. You know, let's be real, let's be your in this world. I have met a more authentic person than yourself. The thing, what you see is what you get, and that's what
we wanted to do. You know, we just we always just wanted to be honest. We wanted to be honest with ourselves. We wanted to be honest with the product. We wanted to be honest to the public as well, and just be authentic, you know what I mean. It's something we were proud of it, and I think that we've achieved that.
The logo, like I can't remember how many iterations of a bird we went through and one of the things I have experienced and it's been a good experience for me and not something I would ordinarily experience. I think I know that I have had this discussion with you about this actually walking around here at one stage when I was here last, and for some reason you compete
and went for a long walk. And I have a much greater appreciation appreciation of Indigenous and First Nations people as a result of being involved with you, and Andrew.
It's important to us, it's our core. I mean, at the end of the day, and we've had this conversation before, it's like, you know, I just can't understand why is a nation that we wouldn't celebrate that where we're you know, we could really make us stand and not make a stand, but just really be proud of the fact that you know that we we think the country that you know, these people were here for sixty thousand years. You know, Navajo Indians haven't been around that long, let alone anyone else.
I mean, what a what a thing to be proud of the fact type of thing that you know, we come from a country that you know, the first type of thing with sixty thousand years old. And I mean, it's dear to Andrew's heart, you know, it's it's it's I think it's something that has to be.
You know, and you have told me that there is a great deal of importance from our first Nation's partners, friends, family that about bird and how important birds are to them.
It is that was one of the things. Well you know, we got them and I just love what it represents. The You're the one that picked it up the bird, I'm saying that, yeah.
But but in some ways you can play have fun with that totally, you can give the bird, but really deep deep below that in the Whiskey conversation, as you dive deeper into it, people should realize that this is about something much more significant, Oh, totally, and.
In the way that the Indigenous. The Indigenous people look at birds and what they see the messages they come across, no matter what bird it is. I mean, for a simple to use it as an example that every time I see a feather, the Indigenous people use the feather when they see a feather on the ground that it's that someone from above. And I always think that it's my mum, a signal type of thing that's saying that I love you. So every time I will take the
dog for a walk, I'll see feathers everywhere. It's just a little sign of little signal that they use Indigenous people being as a ritual where you know, they use it as the spirit above has dropped the feather type of thing and a little reminded just saying yeah, I'm
watching your back, Yeah, I'm loving you. Yeah, you know, it's my mum, it's you know, it's my cousin who passed away, it's all those sort of people that I'm no longer with us, And I just think it just has amazing, you know, that that ritual and that tradition and that the story along those sort of lines. The thing is amazing.
And because we have often talked about, you know, how we could, with their permission, further sort of involve First Nations people in our and in a whiskey, maybe some sort of indigenous grain or something like doing something special. They're doing a one off and no one else in
the world's ever done. We often talked about that, and I think the bird is you know, we're not trying to be cute, but in some respects it's a bit of a nod to our First Nation's family and I really do believe that, and it wasn't something that I came up with. It's not something that I'll be honest I'm not even used to, but I've been exposed to
that from you two guys. I mean, for some reason, people on Adelaide or South a Stralia are much more they are aware of First Nation people than anywhere else. Maybe it's because we all grew up in the city, never saw Indigenous other than on a footy field, and we just thought them as a as a as a freak in terms of athleticism compared to us. They could do anything, and that's about it. We never really had
much involvement. But now I have a completely different view on Indigenous people as a result of knowing you and Andrew and actually having done this whiskey and having seeing around having conversations with you and Andrew about the importance of this, and I know, to you guys is really important. And funnily enough, we did a podcast this morning in Barossa Valley with a gentleman's business called the Cabins, and he also was talking about First Nations people, how important
it is to him. And I actually was talking about birds, how some birds are really important and probably the number one bird I love in the world as a Cooko Borough and he said to me that you know how important cooker borroughs are to Indigenous people and that you know, their laugh is a bit of an omen as to how things are going to be and it's going to be okay. You hear a car, everything's going to be okay.
And I actually, without even knowing that, I actually feel that every morning when if I if I don't hear a corner barreugh where I live in Sydney and and or at my farm, I sometimes think I'm not going to have a good day. I know it's weird as think, and I'm not normally a suspicious or superstitious person about many things, but that is one thing that I do get concerned about. It if I don't hear a corner borough. And because I wake up earlier like you and cook
a barro is up before daylight. They're the first burder and it's the first bird you hear at least, and to me it's it's incredibly important. And the bird whiskey the name for me, the logo is all part of it. And then you know, most people don't realize this, but which is why I thought would be a great opportunity. Now that I mean, I'd like to have a conversation with you about this, you know, like it brought together so many things. It did pour into me and my dad just but that's.
Recypical though for Andrew and I too was well not you know what I mean, you know as much as what we did that do you you did exactly the same for us as well. And I think that's what the beauty of not only this project and this friendship and stuff. But then it comes back down to that whole sit down, slow down reflection conversation, let's dig the family laughter. It just keeps coming back to those core those those core elements, doesn't it.
And we don't get enough of it, by the way, we should say, we don't make a shitload of money out of this, but it does. It breaks in and wash his face, and it's it's been a good exercise experiment for us. We are building the business, you know, we want to get more bottles out for sale, and that's really important for us because you know, ultimately these things are a passion stuff. As a passion project project.
We sit in that premium space too, and.
We are in the premium space and things a bit tough at the moment just to be but we've done everything or Paul's done everything right and because he's added, you know, this crazy thing entered into a competition. Okat first entry, we want Astray as best single malt. Yeah, that come twice, and then we want it again the year after. And now you're talking about going into some international competitions, which hopefully as we do next year. Is that right? Yeah?
Well, I think I think it'd be fairly you know, that'd be just how we evolve and stuff. I think it'd be the next the next thing in order to do. And then secondly to that which we wanted to do with, I want everyone to try this. I want everyone to be able to have whiskey. I want not so much whiskey, but I want everyone in order to slow down, reflect friends, family, laughter and stuff. And as we said, you know, we sit in this premium space at the moment, this particular product.
But you know, the last the last twelve months and the next or the last few years basically the thing. But over the next like six to eight months, we're going to bring something out that's more affordable to every to everyone. I mean, this is a special occasion drink, this is.
Our launch, this is out launch, but we launched that. But you and I only talking, were you showing me the new bottle and the new logo, and that was not new Lego's sort of similar logo.
And it might be compromised on quality as well, but it might be as the top tier in relation to whisky and stuff. That there was always part of the business plan and the journey along and again evolving was to make sure that we can that it appeal to everyone, that everyone access to it. And in order to do that, we had to bring out a product that was a little bit more cheap and a little bit more affordable. We're not compromise on quality.
But what's interesting about this pool and this is how you guys decided to go about it because you know, equally, Burdenhand has won many many, many World Best three times.
Yeah, numerous times made and the Sparklings and you know, the chardonnais and things. Yeah, there's a lot of.
That we're following is that and we've won twice and the whiskey thing. But if you can crack it by having the best quality, then you can sort of go down a step, not ship quality, but go down a step and have something affordable, more reasonably priced, which becomes your staple. Now we haven't launched it yet, and we maybe we're having a conversation with that when we get
around to launching that. But you, when you came up with that product in that bottle with that name and that logo and that taste profile and the description, and we win awards. One of the things that you were able to do which is not here in front of us, but you realize that this is the perfect we need a gift to be able to give to people, a great way to say happy Father's Day, Happy Mother's Day, Merry Christmas. Good on you do a staff member, I
do it in my always and a great business. All our award winners get one of these boys every year, like two or three times, quite a few, and it's I think you order congratulations And the process the congratulations not just you got to bother the whiskey, but the process is the unpackaging and the whole experience of not just drinking whisky, but the whole experience of opening it up and what's inside and there's a flavor profile. Maybe you can explain how what you're thinking was in relation
to the packaging. That's not the bottle, but what it comes in.
Yeah, I think it's I mean, we all love to be able to. I mean we love to the most important thing is to be able to give. But you know there's a certain part of us as well, it loves to receive as well. And I think, you know, the most important thing is the acknowledgment itself. Is in the fact type of thinking, Wow, marks given me, He recognizes. Is that recognizing thing. It's just like he understands the
work that I've done. He's rewarding me. And exactly, and it starts not just this whole there you go there it is. It starts the thing with this we make it like everything. It's it's about the theater. It's about making you feel so special. From the moment you look him in the eyes, you give him that gift type of thing, and he takes it home or whether he opens up there you know, it comes box, it comes open up the box it's velvet, you know, and then inside which is I keep come referring to the most
important thing is you know, the whisky itself. But it starts the process from the moment that you look in the eye. It's basically type of thing to unfolding the box to unhappy, pulling it out, taking off the sticker to you, and I think that all that sort of stuff is really important in front of someone else, in front of someone else's so longer form. It's just like, wow, this is a process. It's just going to take three minutes in order for me to open it up on a wrap it and it's just we all.
Love what don't today? Again, it's a big deal totally. Could you could you explain because you know wine and whiskey, we're talking about the flavor profile, but you have developed quite a sophisticated way of describing the taste. I still can't do.
It, but that comes with the wine, you know what I mean.
You can describe it like you can say notes of corm llans you started to.
Yeah, you know vanilla and Christmas spice.
Can you just go through how this one that our streamium whiskey? How is how? How do you describe it? And why?
What?
What are the tastes in early taste, back of the tongue, back of the after taste, Like what's the process that someone should be trying to look for when they have a game.
I think the first thing is the smell. That's the most important thing. And as what we said before, you know that. I think that's why the conversation around whiskey is completely different to beer, because it's a process and the type of thing it's slow, it's smell.
So what do you smell when you do that?
I can smell vanilla enimal. I can sort of smell a little bit of spice.
Spice as in the chilly oh.
No more so type of thing. Is more than come the yeah, come, come the cardam and you know, the more powdery sort of form.
Yeah.
I think that's pretty important in that that that's the process starts with the smell first. And as I said to you before, a lot of the times that you know, I'll put the glass to my lips, but actually won't swallow, because I think it's fairly important to actually sort of taste it on your lips first. I get a lot of Christmas about it, a bit a bit of a bit of Christmas pudding.
As in lakes, sultanas and raisins and.
Yeah, just that big sort of that that that big rich bold you come currants and come, you know, the whole flower and come the yeasty thing. What a Christmas pudding is you know that whole richness about it, you know, a bit maplely, that time of years syrup. Yeah, I sort of find it that bit bit of sweetness come through, and then once I do swallow, I think a lot of it comes back down to what we spoke about before with the chardonnay barrel. I find a bit almond butter.
It ends with that whole sort of caramel come. It's like where you get almonds and you get when you go to the nut shop, and you can see them in various ways. You can get those ones are coated in sugar, and those ones are coated in this, and that one's I sort of find it's like nearly nearly swelling or chewing on an almond that's been soaked in maple syrup and baked in Christmas pudding and then just sort of like pan fried in butter. But I'm not
I'm the I'm the everyone's Palett's difference. Like art, everyone sees things different and everyone's palett's a little bit different as well. But that's the basically overtone of how I how I see it and how I taste it.
But and most people go, oh, that's beyond me. But I actually I've as I've had more and more of this over over the years, I'm actually starting to pick up those let's call them flavors or odors or whatever they are.
A nuances.
Nuances.
Yeah, if we sat down here with Andrew, obviously, because Andrew has been Vita cultures and a white maker and the owner of a bird hand along with his wife and even the white maker, the way that they think of describe is just phenomenal. Their palette is just extraordinary. Dried apriy cots come in thing with a little bit of current, then backed off with a little bit of spice, and it's finished off with a little bit of pan fry with cream. It's just like, oh, it is too.
You know, they're amazing, it's amazing. It's an amazing skill to have. But also it's a it's a train palette as well. You know, he's had tasted thousands and thousands and thousands of samples of wine. You know, you've you've tasted your hundreds of whiskeys in order to get what this was. But at the end of the day, we knew what we wanted, we knew where we wanted to sit, we knew exactly what our favorite profile was going to be.
And lucky and fortunate we got Dareth we got that way, yeah, exactly, and and and the and the lesson one that we bring out mon't be compromised on any of those components either.
More goods. We only want quality anywhere at the end of the day. In terms of winning the award, the last award, it's all blind testing because it doesn't come with our label on it. I don't know where it comes from. The chardonnay finishing off and the chardenay barrels. That's pretty unusual, I think.
I think, like with everything in business, And as I said, you know which we spoke before, we're dealing with a product here that's thousands of years old. So but as technology has changed, and as you know, everyone's lifestyles change, and what's on offer has changed as well, that people
are always experimenting with things. You know, they're experimenting. Remember you told me one time that you know, one guy was bringing blocks of ice back from the Antarctic to melt top of the thing because he wanted the water there. So they're always experimenting. In relation. You can't you're you're not going to experiment too much sort of thing. In
relation to the three components. You might be able to throw in a little bit of native in there and relationship change of over profile and stuff, but those three basically foundation ingredients will stay the same. So the only other way that you can really sort of change and explore more and experiment more is going to be via not only the barrel component sort of thing, but what's inside the barrel as well.
What's what has been previously inside the barrel, because because it will coat the.
Out Yeah, exactly, So a lot of people have been playing around, they've been playing and we were our first batch, we put it in the nest eg charraz barrel. I remember, I remember that instead of as I said, I described the flavored profile just then at the end was that chardonnay, that butty nuttery. Our first particular batch had that sort of nearly very component at the end of it where you sort of the last and.
That one also won best did that win in the water? I can remember? I think that won on ward two. That that was the first award. The second award was and and one of the things that hand is famous for globally is it is its bars like it. That's at the top of the tree. List is the top of your shelve up there. That that's the that's and that's a big advantage for us, like huge relative to any other whiskey maker in the country because they don't have that access.
That's barrel. It's a barrel. That's that's the barrel. That's that every single barrel, even though it's French oake and down the road or you know in another region might have French oak, but the French the barrel hasn't sat here.
It's completely different. We're a cool climate vineyard, yeah, you know what I mean, So sour our grapes are going to be completely different compared to somewhere over in Hunter Valley, compared to you know, down the Flurio Peninsula down to Mornington Peninsula, down over to Turnover in w A. It's a completely different climate. So our barrels are completely different. They sit which the boys might be able to get some footage of, I think, like in the room next door.
So it's a completely different process can involve in what it is type of thing in other regions.
Well, I've been I've really enjoyed because it's interesting. We're over here to do some other stuff, and the boys said, let's go down and talk to Paul and as you do a podcast ourselves in relation to mark your own products for a change.
You're always talking about other people, and I just turned around on behalf of Andrew as well, and stuff like what you've done in order for not only for us as a business, but more so for me personally. I just think that you're so humble, You're so authentic and so real and stuff that at the end of the day, from the moment that I sort of met you, probably
around thirty years ago, you changed my life. And every single day or when I speak to you, whatever it may be, once a week or whatever it is, type of thing I come out and I say to my wife, he still makes me a better person than what I was in the ten minutes before I spoke to any sort of thing. Your philosophy on life, the time that you give and what you give back to the community and the people and especially business owners and stuff as well,
is just extraordinary. And I just consider myself one of the most no I consider myself. I wake up in the morning the luckiest personal life, and I go to bed exactly the same because to be able to be bookended by the two business partners, I have a product that I'm so proud of, one one of the great visionaries of the world. With Andrew and what he's created here with wine and what he produces and stuff, and
then for you and stuff. I just consider myself so lucky and fortunate and I'm just blessed in order to be able to have that affiliation with you. And I appreciate and I don't think there's been enough said inulation what you do not only for your community and for the people within it and the small business owners, but for Australia itself too.
Man. I appreciate that. And by the way, Andrew and I would not have whiskey.
If you weren't.
You're doing it for us, I can tell you now. I pumped up, mate, Jesus mate, thank you, thank you.
Enjoy