Welcome, this is the Men Church Stuff Podcast. This is the show where brothers -in -law DJ Culp and Brad Coleman talk about stuff from our perspective as men. It's a show for anyone who wants to hear how Christians interact with the world. And don't worry, we're real. We've grown up in church, and we want to share our experiences with you. We'll talk life stuff, church stuff, man stuff, and stuff stuff. Here we go. Greetings, listeners here and there and everywhere all across the
land. This is the Men Church Stuff Podcast. I'm one of your hosts, DJ Colt. As always, here with my beloved brother -in -law, Brad Coleman. Brad, what is up, man? You know, sitting here, chilling with my brother -in -law, drinking some coffee, just enjoying this weather. Are you enjoying the weather, Brad? I mean, what do you think about this weather? What's the weather like down there in Tennessee? It's pretty good. So before I explain, Brad, what the weather is really like
here in Tennessee. Listeners, if you have not done so, we encourage you, please go to our Facebook group page, the Men's Church Stuff podcast. I have posted a question, and we are going to start with this. Name a song that you would like me, DJ, to read dramatically. And the winner today, we've had four responses, and Brad chose that the winner today, The Weather in Jackson, Tennessee. Just so happens Fred is raining tacos. So we, Timothy Michael, Timothy is a fiance of one of
my students. Great, great guy. I'm so excited for him and Natalie. Shout out to both of them. But we are going to start today's show with a dramatic reading. Of It's Raining Tacos. Now, Brad, here's the thing. When this show drops, what I'm going to do is behind this, I will actually add some mood music. So I'll have something going on in the back. So let's go ahead and get that
music cranked. it's raining tacos from out of the sky tacos no need to ask why just open your mouth and close your eyes it's raining tacos It's raining tacos out in the street. Tacos. All you can eat. If this is a dream, I don't want to wake up. Lettuce. And shells. Cheese and meat. It's raining tacos. Yum. Yum. Yum, yum, yummity yum. It's like a dream. Yum, yum. Yum, yum. Yummity yum. Bring your sour cream. Shell, meat, lettuce, cheese. I say again, shell,
meat, lettuce, cheese. Amen, brother. Shell, meat, cheese, cheese, cheese, cheese, cheese. It's raining tacos. Taco Bell, we got your next commercial right here. Raining tacos. Raining tacos. It's raining tacos. It's raining tacos. Raining tacos. Raining tacos. Shell meat lettuce and cheese. Shell meat lettuce. Cheese. It's raining tacos. That's the dumbest thing. That's amazing. Makes me want to go to Tennessee. It's raining rain here. I'll get tacos. So dumb. I bet Taco Bell
hates that. We're not going to sell anything today. Oh my goodness. Thank you, Timothy. Thank you, Timothy. So if you have a song, listeners, that you would like for me to give a dramatic reading of, just go ahead and share it in the group. If a DJ's rendition of It's Raining Tacos has touched you deeply in some way, please let us know. We'd like to hear about it. And if anybody knows the marketing department at Taco Bell. Love to get a commercial deal. That's right.
Yeah, I'll be happy to give you a voiceover for a Taco Bell commercial. Taco Bell in collaboration with the Men Church Stuff podcast presents. You know, I don't know the answer to this question, but I have a suspicion, Brad, that they probably don't align with all the values that we represent here. But I mean, could be. There are going to be tacos in heaven. I wonder if there's going to be tacos in heaven. Dude, that would be the
best taco cart in the world. You're just walking along with Jesus, just talking about all the mysteries of the universe. And Jesus says, all right, hang on. You've got to try tacos from the stand. I mean, what is it? What do you think? Maybe Peter, Andrew, somebody, one of his disciples. Makes tacos. And according to you, Brad, they would probably be fish tacos. You know that. Matthew is very mathematical. Right, yeah. So he's taking the chef position. Yeah. The right
balance. Every bite. Every bite. That's awesome. All right. Enough of it. Let's get to it, Brad. Oh gosh, that's funny. Thank you, Timothy. Seriously, to think that that's a song goes beyond me. Like how on earth that became a hit, it makes no sense. So today's topic, Brad and I, I think it's safe to say that every single human being needs to be able to think through this, but Brad and I, we just need this conversation today. The topic today is that the Lord does not waste a storm.
So, Brad, let me get it kicked off this way. In your experience with, you know, as as I've heard it put before, and most people as a man of the cloth. In your experience. Do. Do. Most church attenders, most church congregants, or maybe even just maybe better yet, let's just be more broad here. Just do human beings in general. Do we see value from your perspective? Do we
see value in storms? So I think that most people, most Christians, whether they want to own it or not, and I think I have been just as guilty of this. Kind of play into the idea that if I just appease God, if I'm obedient enough, if I do the right things enough, if he's happy with me, then I will avoid the storms. The God won't send me the storms. I'll be coming in my boat, and the storm's just going to go away, which
is not biblical at all. very true um i think really it probably i mean some of it probably just has its roots in in human nature and our desire but i think you see kind of that idea in a lot of other religions that oh like yeah just don't make the gods mad Right. And you'll be happy. Yeah. And God does talk about how he's going to bless us. And he does definitely bless obedience and all that stuff. But I think sometimes we can't see that sometimes the storm is the
blessing. Right. Because we don't want it. And I think it's okay that we don't want it. I don't want to be in the storm. I don't want that stuff to be the struggle and all that. But so I think most people will sit there and I think I have to find myself there, too, because I go when I'm facing storms sometimes. What's my go to? God, are you mad at me? Right. Are you mad at me? You know, and does God use storms as discipline sometimes? Sure. But I think God is a good father
and he is. kind of out front about those things. And I've used this example before. If I walk into my son's room and I'm just like, you're grounded for a month. You get no technology and all that stuff. And I just walk out. Don't tell him what he's done. He has no idea. You know, there was no context before. It's not helpful for him. It's just frustrating because if I'm getting disciplined, I need to know what I'm getting disciplined for. Otherwise, it's not
very effective because. okay, what do I need to not do again? Because, you know, versus he's in the middle of it, I catch him. Yeah. Or I say, hey, look, this is why. Not that I just regularly ground my kids for a month. You don't do that? I thought that was parenting. I thought that's what we're supposed to do. Once a year, I pick a month. It's like, I know you've done some stuff behind my back that I don't know about. So this year, June, it's really going to be horrible
for you. I'm going to have to just change my parenting style altogether then, Brad. Just keep on guessing. That's great parenting. Never let them have stability. I want to interject something real quick. I think it's very, very worth unpacking the way that you said that he doesn't discipline us for no reason. And when I say I want to unpack that, I think that's an obvious like, okay, so that means that God would have a reason for disciplining on any occasion that he would deem so. Okay,
yes. It can get the conversation can get pretty hairy if, you know, skeptic if there's a skeptic that's listening or if someone's going through something that is that's not that's not a storm, but like a monsoon or a hurricane. You know, I mean, I think that it's really easy for us to. I think it's easy for us to to to want to throw at people that want to talk to us about
about. spiritual storms and and i'll use i'll use um my my wife's situation that that happened uh eight years ago as example of this right you know what i'm gonna say when adam when her brother adam died i think it's really easy for people to say so you're telling me through this conversation that god is disciplining me by By taking the life of somebody else. No, no, no. That's not
what I'm talking about. But I also think that it's very important for us to look at the storm not through the lens of, you know, listeners, if you're a parent, you'll get this. If you're not a parent, then think back to when you were disciplined in whatever stage of life by somebody. I think it's really easy for us. If you're a child, you may be disciplined right now. If you're a child, that's right, listening to this show for whatever reason. Your parents are disciplining
you right now. This second, that's right. By making you listen to this show. I think it's easy for us to think back to the discipline as I'm being disciplined because I did this. And so the discipline. I'm trying to think of how to word this right, but it is kind of the end of the transaction. It's the end of that little stage. I don't think God, personally, Brad, I
don't think God works that way. I don't think that he, like using spanking just as a generic metaphor, I don't think that God spanks us and then sets us back down. I think that the storms that God puts us through, do they sometimes, if not always, I can't speak to that, but do they serve to discipline us as a loving parent
would? Yeah. But I also think that there are things in the storm that we are supposed to learn that will benefit us way beyond just, well, you know, you really did this and sorry, but this is happening. You know what I mean? And sometimes the storm is not a punishment or discipline at all. Like you look at Job. Job's doing good. Job's doing well. God is pleased with Job. I mean, God says, you know, he's bragging on Job. You know, there's none like him. Right. On the
earth. You know, he's an upright man. He's mature. You know, sometimes we use the word perfect, but it's complete, you know, I think is a better term. Because when we think perfect, we think, oh, Jesus is perfect. And that's true. He is perfect and complete. But, you know, God's going, Job's a mature guy. And like, he runs from evil. All these things. And so, that's... Why he gets sent these storms because Satan's like, oh, well, he's going to, you know, he'll just curse you
if you if you take away the goodness. So it's like, no, no, he won't. Brad and Brad, to that point, I know I've had I've had these moments in my life where I feel like. I feel a storm coming on and there have been points in time where. I'm going to I'm going to say it. assuming that it really is this way, I really felt the Spirit letting me know briefly, this storm's about to happen, not because you did something wrong, but because your faith is strong enough
to handle it. And God is ever -strengthening our faith. I mean, I just preached out of James 1. which is, again, not one of my favorite verses, probably not one of a lot of people's favorite verses, where James goes, consider it all joy when you face various trials. Yeah. No thanks is kind of my first thing. Can I just not have that? But think about it. All right, so when these big, huge storms come and they cause these big waves, You know, there's a group of people
that get excited about that. There's a group of crazy surfers. Oh, yeah. Yeah, dude. There's some of these guys. I'm not suggesting you do this to anybody. All right. And be like, hey, I listen to this podcast and I knew it was the Lord telling me to go surf that hurricane. No, no, no. That's not what I'm saying. But I mean, there are people that do. You go out and surf these hurricane level like waves where everybody
else is. You know, like hunkering down and getting, you know, in their storm shelter, which is probably what you should do. Correct. Yeah. In the physical sense. Right. These guys are out being excited because here are these waves that don't happen. Now, what if we took that more trusted God and on that spiritual sense? Not the physical, the spiritual sense. When these crazy waves are happening, we just got excited because we're going to ride the wave. Because you don't fight the wave when
you're surfing. You ride on top of it. Yeah, the wave will win every time. So you just go with the flow. So if God is sending the storm, God is allowing the storm, what if we just ride the wave? And get a little excited. Now, I say all that going, I need to do that. I need to get excited. And I think on some level, that's what James is saying. Hey, it's not going to be fun, necessarily. But know what God is doing
through it is awesome. Where God is going to take you with that wave, he's going to work on your patience. Because that's the most fun thing to work on. You work on patience. You got to aggravate the patience. And that like right there, I'm going to go pop culture quote. I think that's one of the best points that ever came out of Bruce Almighty. If you pray for patience, do you think God's just going to give you patience or is he going to give you opportunities to be
patient? I'm not saying that Bruce Almighty is scripturally sound, but theologically he's a little iffy. But nonetheless, I think that point is true. And, you know, if our faith is going to be tested, period, then it is – it's so – dude, you're right. It's so hard. I mean, it's completely counterintuitive. To be joyful when all you want to do is say, my life sucks right now. You know, like this, I'm going through something that is, that is like, it's, it's permeating
everything and I can't run away from it. I can try, but like it, it just follows me. And, uh, And it is, it's completely counterintuitive to be joyful. I don't think that that means that we should ignore the storm either, Brad, you know, to that point, I don't think that we should, that, that, that, you know, that, that we should have the warm fuzzies by any means, but I think there's something to be said. And this, I just need to say this, man, I don't fully understand
the psyche behind this, how the disciples. When they were being persecuted, they had these moments of epiphany like, we're being persecuted for Jesus' name. This is awesome. You know, like, I can't get there. That's something that's beyond me. I don't think that they were like, wow, I'm so happy this is happening. And I mean, there's a difference again. I just I guess it's like for my understanding. OK, is there's a difference
between happiness and joy? Because joy is tied to the truth that look, this like whatever that
truth is. Yeah. Like it is an honor to be. persecuted for the name of christ you know we saw yeah there you go we saw him resurrected and all of that we know that our our life here on earth is is temporal that god has promised us the eternity and that god is going to use this to you know in in his will and his way so i don't i don't think like on that level that like they're they're being stoned like they were like yes Ooh, that
one hurt. Do it again. Yeah, like, no. I've been trying to get you guys to steal me or crucify me all day. Like, no. What's it going to take? Their hope is that these people will accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, that they'll come over. Like, we're sharing this not so you'll persecute us, but so that you'll be saved, so that you'll hear the gospel. Yeah. But we're going to go, like, it's not wasted. I think that is the thing that
God is using this, the persecution. Paul said, hey, he recognized that there were other people that were being more bold in their sharing of faith because he was in prison. It's like there's something like their boldness is strengthened. So did he like being in prison? I don't think so. Do you wish he wasn't in prison? I think he did. I have a very strong suspicion that if you were to say, Paul, are you enjoying yourself
right now? His answer would be no. Yeah, if God would have been like, hey, Paul, you want to get out of prison? He'd be like, yes. Yes, please. Yeah, I actually do. I mean, some of his letters, he writes like, you know, I hope to come to you soon. You know, some of those are like from. Wait, but Paul, aren't you supposed to, aren't you supposed to like love where you're at at all times? Yeah. I'm in a pit. It's dark. No, I don't enjoy being in dirt. This guy keeps smacking
me. Yeah, sure, that's great. Paul is not a masochist, ladies and gentlemen. I don't think James is either. James isn't saying, hey, be happy about it. Your life sucks. You should be happy about it. Because God is using it. No, he's saying be joyful because you know that God is using those things. He's using those things like in
your life to make you better. So to that point, Brad, I would then argue or like semantically, I want to start arguing that you can mourn, M -O -U -R -N, you can mourn, you can have grief. And actually be joyful at the same time. Oh, yeah. And I think that semantically that we as people don't like to open that door. You know what I mean? Like joy, I think we want to limit its definition to being related to happy because we want to feel both. I think that joy is not.
And for me, the way I understand joy and biblical joy, and if I'm wrong, you know, you guys can correct me or don't believe me or whatever. Any listeners out there, feel free to well actually. Joy is not an emotion. Correct. Happiness is an emotion. Now, happiness tends to tag on with joy. Right. But when I look at joy as the understanding of the truth and then the emotions that go with it. Right. Like often that is happy. Right. But. But I can rejoice. Again, God says we don't grieve.
In 2 Thessalonians, we don't grieve like those who have no hope. So when someone dies, we don't grieve like those who have no hope. So I'm grieving, but I can have joy. When my dad passed away, it was one of the hardest times of my life. It was difficult. It still hurts. But I have joy that my dad is with Jesus. He's in heaven. One day I will join him and we will serve and love and be in the presence of Jesus forever. So that brings me joy, even in the grief. Now, I wasn't
smiling at his funeral. No. I was weeping. Like, yeah. But that joy was in there. It wasn't happy at that time. It was like, yes. My dad's dead, but he's in heaven, so I'm so happy. I'm joyful. And does that at times now, as the time progressed, produce some happiness in that moment? Sure. But in that moment, it sure wasn't. Like the first thing when I knew for sure my dad was gone, I wasn't like, yes, because he's with Jesus. No, I was happy for him. Right. Yeah. I'm still
sad for me. I still have to go back to that's not fair. You know what my mom and dad taught me? Life's not fair. Yeah. Like, so I can't even say that. Like, of course it's not. Well, it's not fair that Jesus died for your sins. That's not fair. Oh, dude, I know we've said it on the show before, but one of the greatest lyrics ever written comes from Reliant K. The beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair. Going back to
storms, right? We're talking storms. There's this quote that I've heard, and I don't know who this guy is. I don't know the context. I like the quote, all right? So don't put anything further than that. I'm not supporting or not supporting this guy because I don't know. I think there's some truth in the quote. Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. I've read that too. Here recently, yeah.
Yeah. And that's by G. Michael Hoff. Again, know nothing about the guy. Everything else he wrote could be horrible. Or it might be great. I don't know. But I say that to say that what we, I think, sometimes would want, if we had control, was for us to never face storms. Or kids. We'd shelter them if we had the ability. I'm glad. I'm thankful we don't have the ability. We'd give them everything. We would take away every hardship. But in doing so. We're crippling them. We would. We'd create
horrible human beings. So, Brad, I'm sure that you've probably heard of this, but have you heard of lawnmower parenting? Yes. Okay. For listeners out there that are unfamiliar with this. The type, the style, I think the predominant style of parenting now in this generation is called lawnmower parenting. Helicopter parenting, which is what we came out of, is parents that would try to keep tabs on everything that their kids were doing. So, you know, basically complete
and utter invasion of privacy at all costs. But lawnmower parenting is where the parents – I don't know how this happens. I don't know how this works. But the parents apparently do everything in their power to remove every single obstacle out of their kid's way so everything is easygoing. And, Brad, you're exactly right, man. The problem is that, like, there is no such thing as a coping mechanism now, right? They don't learn how to do anything. They don't learn how to handle any
problem. That's exactly right. They don't know. And dude, they don't know what to do with their own emotions under those particular types of environments. I've heard stories from people who are like managers, who's having people who are adult people working for them, like in their 20s. And when there's a situation that person's mom calls. Oh my gosh. Like, I'm going to tell you 100%, if I was still a manager and somebody's mom called, I'd be like, well, you need to tell
them to come talk to me about it. Yeah, go, like, uh -uh, grow up. Yeah. And, of course, me, I'd be like, well, ma 'am, you know, it's not legal for me to talk to you about that because you are not their legal representative anymore because they're an adult. They have to deal with these things, you know. But, right, but it's like, no. And that's what you're talking about. That's a lawnmower parent. Yeah. Like, oh, did you get
it? you know in trouble because you were late well i'll call your manager but you know he was like look look lady and i'll do respect stop yeah doing that but i mean i think you see you see that in school right you see these lawnmower parents too where it's like oh my kid got a bad grade why did you give my kid a bad grade because your kid earned a bad grade that's your kid because your kid didn't turn it or let me show you what they turned in For their three -page essay that
they were supposed to write on Abraham Lincoln. It is a picture poorly drawn of Abraham Lincoln on what I can only imagine is a horse. Do you want to see it? So I gave them an F. That's right. Because they did not do the assignment at all. Well, but it's obviously Abraham Lincoln. Look at that. Yep, you're right. I'm giving you an F, too. You also get an F. You get an F. That's
right. I award like I'm Billy Madison. One of the things I realized, though, in fairness, though, our love for our kids, right, makes us want to do good things, makes us want for them not to hurt and those kind of things. So we have to understand that through wisdom. Right. Hannah was having an issue yesterday. Just she was just kind of emotional about some stuff. And then she was making like she wanted some cookie dough. I'm like, no, we're not going to go to the store.
Won't you make some? So she went and looked up a recipe, but she gets like all of this together and it's supposed to be finished. And it doesn't look like it's supposed to do. And, you know, it's too powdery. And like she she broke down in tears. And was just, you know, it's not. And so Tabby just helped her. Okay, well, what? Did you do all the things? Yeah, I did it all. You know, and I'm not making fun of my daughter anyway. We've all had those moments. I've had those moments.
It's exactly right. Where, like, it doesn't go the way it's supposed to. You're already having a rough day. So, but, you know, Tabby helped her figure out what she needed to do because she had followed the recipe. But, you know, sometimes the humidity and stuff. It changes that. I mean, it was simple. She just needed to add a little more milk or something. But to her, it was crushing. And the first time she walked back up to try what Tabby had said, I looked at Tabby, and I
was like, this is so hard for me. I want to just drop everything, jump in the truck, and go buy her some cookie dough. But I've also lived long enough, and God has given me enough wisdom to know that is the last thing that she needs right now. But what she did need was for her mom to help her. Right. You know, and then she went back up and she came back down and it's still not right. It's like, well, just bring it, bring
it down, show mommy. She brings it down and Tammy's like, oh baby, no, this is almost what it needs to be. We just need to just, just, she said, this is what you're going to do. She said, you're going to go upstairs, you're going to wash your hands, you're going to take this, and then you're going to knead the rest of it with your hands because the stirring is not going to work. And it's going to be perfect. And that's what she did. And I didn't hear another tear from her.
Yeah. And so, like, I think kind of, you know.
wrapping back in or looking back at the topic of you know god doesn't waste a storm the lord does not waste a storm i think you're exactly right that when a storm comes and let's see let's even say brad that it's not one of the storms that comes that we're not that we're not ready for let's just say that that we know that we are going to have storms right let's just let's just put in the perspective of someone not necessarily it's ready for it but that that okay, well, here's
something that sucks. Let's just spearhead it. This is reality. Let's deal with it. I think that you're exactly right that what the Lord wants ultimately is for us to return to Him. I think part of that is one of the reasons that storms even exist is for us to realize we cannot do this without Him. But let me get to where I was here. In Romans 5, where is it? I lost
it. There it is. Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have obtained access to this grace in which we stand. And we boast in our hope of sharing the glory of God. And not only that, but we also boast in our sufferings. Obviously, this is a different type of a storm,
but still a storm nonetheless. knowing that suffering produces endurance and endurance produces character and character produces hope and hope does not disappoint because God's love has been poured out, poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit that has been given to us. And so like, like it's, it's the idea that, that the storms, yes, we return to God, but, but in, in, in, in really parallel fashion, I guess is the only way I can think of how to word it. He strengthens
us. Yeah. And I find myself as a – listeners, if you're new to the show, I teach at a small Christian institution in Jackson, Tennessee. But one of the things, Brad, that I teach is
studio drum set for drum set majors. And I actually end up – Talking about like I parallel to to weight room mentality often because really You know When when you're in the weight room, which I'm not but I mean if I were right if you're in the weight room and you're lifting weights you are you are exposing yourself to a number of Uncomfortable things like lifting weights
is not comfort. It's not it's not convenient lifting weights is hard and It's a lot of times it's painful, maybe not necessarily effective. It has to cause stress. That's exactly right. Yes. And, and, and like, when I say it's painful, maybe not necessarily why you're, you're lifting, even though that's true, but, but the, the effects of it can be painful, but like the result is worth every bit of going to the weight room.
And so I, like, I often tell my students, look, You know, when when your body does this, you got to pay attention to it. And just like the weight room, you can't do this. You got to do this. And so I walk them through, again, kind
of that weight room mentality. And the idea is not just the here and now, but rather there's there's like these last long lasting effects that I'm trying to get my students to understand that, you know, if you were if you were to incorporate this technique, if you think about this muscle group this way and so on and so forth, I'm trying
to instill in them. These these these these technique lessons that will actually not make them better players today, but better players in three years that better players in 10 years to where if you do this right, you can still be playing in 40 years. You know what I mean? And I think I think that's that's what God wants for us. The crazy thing, though, with our human mentality, right, is is oftentimes the thing that we need. To be really successful in something three or five
years down the road. Yeah. We need to start doing today. And we're not going to see the immediate value of it. Right. And it's going to just suck. It's kind of the wax on, wax off, Mr. Miyagi. Why am I doing this? But if we acknowledge that what those things are going to produce is going to make us. Be able to do those things well in three to five years and then continue to do that. If we could own that and we do it. I mean, here's one of the realities and I struggle with it.
You know, in college, I learned that if you stretch out your muscles. Just stretch your muscles. You take this time to do these, you know, 30 second stretches and stuff like before and after your workouts, like it will increase. And I don't remember the number. So I'm just making it up like it's significantly worth the stretch. Like if you do that effectively before and after your workouts and even on days when you're not doing those workouts that your strength. will like
just increase in a crazy amount. But you know how many times I did that? I didn't because it always felt like I wasn't doing anything. And because like when I was pressing up this heavy weight, it felt like I was doing something. But when I was just stretching that out, it didn't. And so it's like how much opportunity I wasted knowing I knew the truth, but not doing it. You know, when it was simple, but it was, oh, well, I don't have time for that. And I think that
a lot of times it's those things in life. It's we want the McDonald's. Well, I said on Sunday, like we're not even McDonald's anymore. We don't even want it right now. We want it yesterday. Like I decided today that I want to be strong. And so why am I not strong already? Why am I not strong? Come on, buddy. Yeah. I want to be strong. He's like, okay, you want to be strong? I'll make you strong. Get ready, buttercup. Right.
Go ahead. Well, actually, I was going to say something, but I forgot what I was going to say. So by all means. Well, we're talking about suffering and stuff, too. You know, storms and suffering in God's way. I will point this out. You know, I recently read a book by a fellow pastor, John Kirkendall. And one of the things that he pointed out, and we're. We're planning on in the future having him kind of on the show to probably talk
about his book. But one of the things that just really fits with what we're talking about was, and I'm going to paraphrase him, but he was talking about Paul and Paul's thorn in the flesh, which he had asked God to take away from him three times. And God says, no, my grace is sufficient for thee. Strength is made perfect in weakness. But he pointed out that by our mindset, that we would think, well, Paul would have been more effective if he didn't have this thorn in the
flesh. Like, well, God, if you just take away that thorn in the flesh, he would have been more effective. But God knew that our mindset's wrong. One, we're putting the... Our faith in Paul, not our faith in Christ. Right. So it may have been very destructive for Paul not to have that thorn in the flesh. I think Paul talks about his humility. I was trying to look where I wrote it in my notes. But again, just the idea that God has purpose in suffering. It does teach joy.
But God's purpose through that storm, you know, again, it wasn't to make Paul less effective, but more effective. Now, it did cause stress on Paul. It did cause suffering. But God was teaching him through that suffering to rely on him. My grace is sufficient. My grace. But, I mean, that hit me because, right, I'm saying, okay. Because that's what I've said before on
different things in my life. God, if I could just, with my ADHD, gosh, if I didn't have some of these negatives from the ADHD, I could just do this, and I could do this, and I'd be able to accomplish so much more. I'd be able to be so much better, you know, a father and a pastor and all this stuff. And it really hit me when he said that, like, that Paul probably would have thought, and we certainly would think, well, Paul would have been more effective if it wasn't
for that thorn. But really, the reality is God knows best, so it's probably not true. He wouldn't have been more effective. And so, again, it just hit me with my ADHD when it's like, okay, so maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I wouldn't be more effective. So to that point, Brad, I would argue, You know, the topic of the show is that God doesn't waste the storm. The Lord does not waste a storm. I would argue that we have the ability to do that. Do we waste the storm? Do what now? Do we waste
the storm? Yeah, we have the ability to either refuse to acknowledge what God is trying to do, or we go to the weight room once, twice. Shoot, let's get New Year's resolution -ish here. Let's go to the weight room for two weeks. When are you going to get done in two weeks? Nothing. You know what I mean? Not measurably. Not measurably. It's exactly right. You've laid a foundation, but if you quit. And again, to me, I think that
we have the ability. to waste a storm. And I think it is unbelievably mature of Paul to, as you mentioned, I love the word that you use is ownership, right? He owned that God was not going to take the thorn away. Why? Because Paul acknowledged every time that I want this thorn to go away, he retreats to God rather than saying, well, you know what? Screw it. If this is what the thorn is, then it ain't worth it. And Paul even goes farther than that, and I love this about
Paul. He goes, well, I'll just boast in my weakness. Yeah. Stick it to the man, Paul. That's the case. Yeah, just boast in it. Ooh, I'm weak. Because now you're strong. You know, what you're saying sounds a lot like James 1. And when he's saying, consider it all joy, brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. And verse four, and let endurance have its perfect result so that you may be perfect, complete, lacking in nothing.
So let endurance. So I would argue there, James is saying, you can waste the storm. You can enter the storm from doing what it's supposed to do. Yep. We're going to face the same storm again if we don't learn. Oh, Brad, you just opened Pandora's box. Oh, I don't want to. Yeah. No, no, no. I would say this, that I don't think it's necessarily a guarantee, but I think the chances are extremely high that if we waste a storm, we will revisit it. I think the chances
are very high. Somebody said once, I think it was in a book I read, I can't remember for the life of me who it was, but they were saying, if you continue to find yourself at the same crossroad with the same scenario, storm -wise type, maybe it's time for you to ask God, why am I here and what am I supposed to learn? And maybe he just says what he says to Paul. You're supposed to learn that my grace is sufficient
for you. And so maybe you're going to keep coming to this crossroad because it's going to keep teaching you that my grace is sufficient. But maybe there's scenarios where God's like, yeah, I've been waiting on you to say that so I can teach you. This is what I'm trying to teach you. And maybe it's patience. Like you've got to learn to not get angry. Or when you start to get angry in this scenario, I need you to check yourself
or you'll wreck yourself. Otherwise, we're just going to keep circling back until you learn this. So we don't want to oversimplify it and be like, okay, just learn what God wants you to learn, and then you'll never have to be at that crossroad again. No, that may not be the case. But I think sometimes there's some value in asking God, right? All right. What am I supposed to learn? And and I think this whole conversation is is a way that another way, Brad, that we can unpack again,
referencing Paul. I think this is another way that we can unpack Paul's running the race. Right. I mean, like the race that he's talking about, obviously, he's using the the athletic metaphor, but we're talking about the race of living life, which. Unless God takes us home tomorrow, I mean, all of us are living life on the premise, on the assumption that our lives are going to be 80 plus years. So if you go to the gym for two weeks and you're going to live 80 years, that
means that the gym does absolutely nothing. You know what I mean? And again, that comes back to the idea of... god not wasting the storm but we have to be willing to to see not the storm for what it is in the moment but rather for um five six years down the road can we look back and and see um you know like i i i'm trying to figure out how to word this I relied on God or I sought after God during this moment in time.
And now I understand. Like one of the things that it occurred to me at some point while you were talking, when you mentioned Job, I always, Brad, I love to think, I love to think, why is it that our perceptions are the way that they are? I like to play the what if game a lot. And one of the, like, if you go back and read Job, listener, if you, you know, if you go read Job, if you're reading Job right now. Or if you're not familiar with the Bible, it's Job. It's Job,
right? Yeah. Job. Job. It's pronounced Job, but yeah. So if you, if you, if you skip to the end, the narrator, right? The author of Job jumps to. And then Job, like Job received all of this stuff. Like we learn in very slow motion, really almost like play by play, Job's suffering and experience. But once that's over with, it's just kind of this, it's just sort of this conclusion, right? It's an enormous summary. I say enormous
summary. It's a summary of an enormous amount of time to where we don't actually get to see what Job's experience was like coming out of the storm, living the rest of his life. For all we know, he may have walked around going, okay, God, look, what the heck? You brought me through this stuff. What are we doing? He may have, for all I know, he may have just been walking around like on cloud nine going, you know what? Whatever God does, God does, and I'm good with it. I don't
know. I think you see, again, everything he lost, God gives him back multiples of. Now, you can argue, again, he loses kids. So, I mean, there's that grief that's going to be ongoing and maybe some post -traumatic stress. How could you not have post -traumatic stress after that, right? The thing about this, though, but if you just look at the Instagram, right? Let's just say Job was Instagramming after it's all over. Yeah. And you were to say, oh, here's God. You're reading
the first chapter and the last chapter. Oh, God and Satan are having this conversation, and God's going, hey, have you considered my servant Job? And Satan's like, you know, you've got a hedge about him. Oh, I'll take it away. Oh, well, he'll just deny you. No, he won't. And then you just skip to the end, and God blesses Job. Right. All of these camels and wealth and all this stuff, you're like, oh, wow. Man, that's awesome. And you miss everything in between of all of the
suffering and all of this stuff. And I think sometimes we do that in other people's lives. We see God's blessing on them. We see their obedience to God. We see God's blessing. And we miss their times of... Of like sitting there with the pot shirt, like scraping their wounds in agony when the people were supposed to be their friends are being like, why'd you bring this on yourself? And your wife's going, just curse God and die.
You know, so I think we got to be careful that we don't just watch the Instagram reel of people's highlights, their highlights. And then we... We go, oh, I'm the only one facing storms. I was actually talking about that this morning, Brad, in a music ed class that I teach, that I don't remember what it was called, but I think it started before COVID, but I know it inflated drastically during COVID, but I'm going to call
it the Facebook facade. I don't remember, again, what it was called, but in middle school and high school, Aged age kids. There was an enormous spike in in bouts of extreme depression and suicide because and the theory was because everybody on Facebook and on Instagram, everyone, everyone was posting all of these extremely curated pictures of how good their life was. And. kids would see that and they would look at their own lives and they would think, but I don't have those moments
when in actuality. Yeah, they do, though. They may have been massively overshadowed by negative ones. Well, what what they weren't seeing, as you were saying, what they weren't seeing was all the negative moments that those people were going through. They only they only saw like, here's my smiling face on a beach. You know what I mean? So anyways, we're off topic. But but the idea is, is that is that. Again, I want to recap. I really do believe, Brad, that we have
opportunities to waste God's storms. But God, I believe firmly, will not lead us through a storm in vain. There is no such thing. God doesn't exist in vain. God doesn't make decisions in
vain. He gives us the opportunity to... really blow it but i mean uh if we retreat to him i i i firmly believe that he that he is is faithful and and just not just to forgive us our sins but to also reveal to us in time and when i say in time it's not up to us but it's but i think that he will show us eventually you were brought through this particular storm for this particular reason. So let me, and this is very vague, because I need to be very vague in what I say right now.
I was visiting with a friend the other day, and I was kind of trying to help him walk through a situation that he's dealing with. And as I was leaving, I think I was just reminded of, when I went through a very similar situation years ago. And it was not fun. It was very difficult. It was very much a struggle. And I teared up a little bit. And I said, thank you for letting me go through that. So that I can be... Do it
for my friend. That's deep, man. Because when I think of, if I hadn't have gone through that thing and similar things, I might present differently or try to help differently. And sometimes if we're not careful, we end up like Job's friends. And my mama would say, with friends like that, who needs enemies? Do I want to go do that again? No. It didn't make me happy. But I can rejoice because I see here's just one of the ways that you're using having me go through that. Yeah.
So that when I'm trying to just help others who are going through a similar situation, I can say, yeah, there is. There is hope. There is light beyond this. And, yeah, it sucks right now. And I'm sorry. And I try not to tell people I know how you feel because we all feel differently. I usually just say we can compare notes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's exactly right. But, yeah. Well, I hate to bring this to an abrupt ending, but I teach in nine minutes. So, listeners. Yeah,
I know. Right. Listeners, hope that you've enjoyed today's episode. Hope that it has resonated with you guys. You know, and if you are in the midst of a storm, we just want to we want to remind you that God has not forgotten about you, that
he loves you. um there are people if if it's this podcast then it's this podcast brad and i we love you guys we really do but he has given you people um around you to help to to to help you um be supported in in those moments sometimes and again i don't want to this this we're closing the show here but sometimes It requires us to open up about our situations to get sort of that support that we might need. But just please don't lose sight that God has not forgotten you. He
does not abandon you. And we appreciate you hanging out with us. We love that you listen in, that you tune in every week. And, yeah, follow us on our Facebook group page, MenChurchStuff. You can follow us on Instagram, at MenChurchStuff. You can email us, ready? MenChurchStuff at gmail .com. You can even see our pretty faces on YouTube now. Our pretty faces on YouTube. Thank you, Brad. I appreciate that. Yeah, I almost forgot
about it. And last thing is, again, a reminder, if you want me to dramatically read a song, then submit it on our Facebook group page. Find the question, what song lyrics would you like DJ to read dramatically? So listeners, we love you. Brad, I love you, buddy. Love you, too. Listeners, we will catch you next time. Go be his church.