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boosted odds. Restrictions and TNCs apply. BeGambleAware.org. Take time to think. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East. Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to The Megan Kelly Show. Happy Valentine's Day and happy Friday. And nothing says love like inviting on your show one of your frenemies.
No, he's not a friend. I'm just kidding. But you guys may remember Jason Calacanis of the All In Podcast and I have a kind of special relationship. It goes all the way back to his first and only appearance on our show. as about almost what, three years ago, June of 2022, episode 337, when I ended up calling him a prick. That's not nice, but our relationship has really evolved. I actually really like him.
I think we've put our differences in the past, though we'll find out today, including spending some time together at the All In Summit last September. I'll just give you a little like. memory lane before we bring him on along with his co-host chamath because you may remember this funny exchange it got a lot of attention here's the longer one when he was on the show three years ago
What I'm trying to dispute is the attempt to now say we've got to get guns because of all the mass shootings. The mass shootings are what justify our newfound push on, quote, gun control and what it is to me.
is a dodge on the rising crime rates, which have been a drag on the Democratic ticket and are going to take them down come the midterm elections in October. It's gaslighting. So how many people do need to die in a mass shooting for it to be? Why don't you answer my question since you're here as the guest? What was the question? Was there a question? Yeah.
I think you're conflating a lot of different issues in a very partisan way to get ratings. That's bullshit. Don't question my motives. This is where you turn into sort of an asshole. That's what I said. That's what I think. I'm giving you my honest analysis. And for you to say that I am misleading the audience for ratings is a prick thing to say. You don't know me. All right. I've made my name and I've made my business based on honest journalism. I realize you may be number 26 world.
wide, but you've never done real journalism at the level I have. So that's how our first meeting went. That's just good fun. And then he was gracious enough. to have me at the All In Summit along with Chamath and, of course, David Sachs, who was the other person in that, if you're watching on YouTube, you'll see who's part of that show as well. And now he's working for the Trump administration.
David is. But in any event, those guys all had me out to the all in summit last September, which was really fun and enlightening. The guests were amazing. I really enjoyed myself. And Jason got a lot of guff for the exchange I'm about to show you, but. I saw it very differently. I did not think he deserved all the guff he got because he knew I was a lawyer. He knew that I knew what I was talking about. I think he was being a generous host. I think he was trying.
to let me show some of my knowledge on this case. And people were like, he's an idiot, people on the right who didn't like him. But I think they misunderstood that he was actually being generous to me. Here's the exchange that literally went everywhere.
We look at the five cases, you know, six months from now, a year from now. Let's assume all five of them go to trial. He's guilty of three so far. What do you mean he's guilty of three so far? He's been convicted of three. Sorry. What do you mean? No, he hasn't. I love the.
No, E. Jean Carroll was guilty. That was not a conviction. That was a civil case. Well, yeah, so that's what I'm talking about. Okay, but there's a big difference. Yeah, and the Trump organization, they're guilty there. Again, it was civil, liable, liable. Yes, of course.
These are the cases we're talking about. And then the third one. You don't see the lawyer, right? Yeah. You said three convictions. Now you're walking it back. I'm not walking it back. There's three in which he was. You should walk it back. I'm so glad Megan is here to dispel this. Three of them, he's either guilty or.
He got a bad result. Yeah, got a bad result. There are two more. If he is found guilty of those two more, will you chalk all five up in your mind to five different jurisdictions, five different prosecutors, five different juries and or judges? all conspiring to get him 100 okay all right and then i went on to list why and that that went to a lot of places on the internet but here's the interesting thing on my
My impression is, and we're going to ask him in two seconds, that Jason has gone full on MAGA. I mean, he is like ready to move in with Steve Bannon. They seem very tight. No, he just seems very pro-Trump. And it's been an evolution. You know, it's been an evolution for me, too. It's been an evolution for a lot of people. But that's perfect because his bestie, David Sachs, is now the crypto czar.
in the Trump administration. So joining me today for the very first time, well, second time since all of that is Jason. And then also for the first time is Jason's co-host on the hit tech.
podcast, all in. Chamath Palihapitiya, first time here. Chamath is one of those evil billionaires the Democrats are always warning us about, but he's a self-made billionaire, having started his career out many years ago at Burger King, which we are told is a good thing that you were supposed to celebrate unless you actually do parlay it into true billionaire ship, in which case you're bad.
In addition to all in, Chamath is CEO of Social Capital. Jason is general partner at Launch. We continue to face uncertainty when it comes to the economy. with a perfect storm brewing as Social Security and Medicare hit a breaking point, as the largest generation is, of course, hitting retirement.
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Birch Gold has earned the trust of countless Americans looking to safeguard their savings and diversify them. Text my initials MK to the number 989898 to learn more today. Guys, welcome to the show. Oh, thanks for having us, Megan. Look at this walk through memory lane and you inviting me on Valentine's Day. Stop. It's too much. Stop. I mean, it's so great to be here.
Well, the good news is, you know, you said we were 27. Now we're top 10 right up there with you, Megan, right up there in the top 10 of the ratings with you. And, you know, I think that Trump, just to get right to it. You know, great respect for you as a broadcaster, obviously. And I love having challenging conversations. The Trump lawfare one was a great one. And I think, you know, if we look at Trump 2.0 versus Trump 1.0.
It's pretty clear he's put a different group of people around him and you evoke the name Steve Bannon. You know, like comparing the team he has now to that team, those guys were kind of losers, I'll be totally honest, and xenophobic. And I don't agree with a lot of the Trump 1.0 agenda. But if the Trump 2.0 agenda is let's have less government, balance the budget.
free speech and stop wars, I'm here for it. So Trump has evolved massively. His positions are completely different this time around. And I always want to support the president, whoever wins. I'm not a partisan guy. I'm actually an independent. I voted Republican about a third. of the time in my life and Democratic two thirds. And so I am a big fan of supporting our president, whoever it is, as best you can, and then assessing what they're actually doing.
I don't think we should deport 20 million people. I do think we should deport the 500,000 who are like hardened criminals. And so there's nuance to all these issues. And I'm really excited to be here, especially with Chamath, to discuss the nuance in a lot of these positions. Megan, I just dropped my kids off. Wait, wait, before I get to you, Chamath, who is a loser in Trump 2.1? 1.0 or 2.0? In 1.0, sorry. Yeah.
You know, I think the xenophobic people I disagree with a ton. Who's that? Steve Miller says stuff like America is for Americans and Americans only. I think that kind of rhetoric. You know, he's running policy for Trump now. I do. I do. Yeah. He's he's the one I disagree with. And I know Steve. His big thing is the border. And, you know, border crossings are down between 90 and 95 percent.
Sure. So again, like we get into the nuance. I think all Americans like 80, 90 percent are in favor of closing the border and having an orderly immigration process. But I think this country was actually built. by immigrants for immigrants. And so when Steve Miller says something like xenophobic, like, oh, America's only for Americans, Americans only, he's pulling up the ladder. We should actually, Megan, be recruiting.
the smartest people in the world to come to this country. And that's really at the heart of this Trump 1.0 MAGA OGs. versus the techies. And you saw J.D. Vance sort of tackling this head on on Twitter this week. I think the soul of MAGA is probably being debated. Should we? Do you believe?
We should drag the other 19 million hardworking immigrants in this country out of the country. You think the nannies, the dishwashers, the people who've been here for 20 years and built a life, you think all 20 million should be dragged out of the country.
Yeah. And that has majority support amongst the American people. I mean, I'll say this. Stephen Miller has been so demonized by the left and he is absolutely brilliant. The last thing you can get away with is calling that guy a loser. He's gotten helped get Trump elected. twice. And he's behind not just the immigration policy, but he was in part behind the brilliant EO on gender and biological sex. Stephen Miller is extremely smart, extremely cunning, and those gifts are being unleashed.
our behalf right now. So, okay. Sorry to make you wait so long. Hold on, stand by. It's not just you and me. We want to get it. Take it easy. Would you just relax? Just relax. Sorry, Megan. Jamath, happy Valentine's Day. Thank you. How are you feeling about the show so far?
You know, this is incredible because Jason never gets to talk this much on our own podcast. So I understand now why he's just frothing at the mouth. But I was going to tell you a little story, which is I dropped my kids off today. my wife and I. And it reminds me that in grade school, you know how you used to...
treat the person you had a secret crush on the worst. That's Jason's relationship with DJT. So I just think that at some point what's happened is Jason has finally realized that he's actually secretly, he admires him so much and now he doesn't know what to do.
do. So now he's just going for it because now he's got cover where most people with a rational brain have said, oh, give this guy a chance. So that's really what's happening. We have some of that actually, just to make your point. I think this is a bit of his evolution that we've captured in the following. Sound bite. Let's take a listen to sound three. Here we go. It is all about me. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the All In Podcast, the number one.
MAGA. I was a never Trumper. And now I'm rooting for him wholeheartedly to do great work. I will say, publicans are fun. Fashion was off the hook. And all credit to Trump for winning and running an incredible campaign. I mean, just... They they crushed us as somebody who was a never Trumper, as you all know, in the audience. And now somebody who is supporting him relentlessly. He's also.
Done an incredible job with the border. 2025's biggest political winner. I said Gen X and the elder millennials. You got Elon with Doge. You got Sachs, obviously. Marco Rubio. My God, it just goes down. And then if you look at the elder millennials, J.D. Vance, Vivek, Tulsi, just a lot of young people. And this is going to be absolutely fantastic, I think. Shamath.
He's been red pilled. He spent all his time with you guys. Purple. Full red pill. Well, you know, you said something really important at the beginning, which is you used the word MAGA 2.0. And I actually think that that's... the right observation. MAGA 2.0 is a very different coalition than MAGA 1.0, which explains, I think, why they did so well at the polls. And the way that I describe it in my own framework is...
MAGA 2.0 are the working and middle class people that are asset light. And I think that that is important, meaning there's a lot of people. that aren't getting stock options that don't work at a startup that don't necessarily own a home and are still renting that don't have these overflowing 401ks and that's a lot of where the
tension with the American economy and society comes from, right? So I think MAGA speaks to them. I think they now speak to patriotic business owners and they also were able to get these tech leaders and innovators. That's a really unique coalition. And I think that that is very discombobulating for the Democrats. And I think it explains a little bit why.
they're on their heels and a little confused and don't exactly know how to react in any moment. But that MAGA 2.0 coalition, if it holds, I think is multi-generationally relevant. Mm-hmm. Can I ask you, Jason, what, you say purple, not red. So what caused, what was the red that was mixed in with your former blue that made you purple now? Like what specifically was it that made you start migrating a bit?
Yeah, I mean, I've always been a moderate and voted, like I said, maybe living in New York and in California most of my life. I didn't have the opportunity to vote for a Republican that many times, but about one out of three, I vote a Republican. And having lived in New York, Los Angeles, and San Francisco, you don't have to do too much research.
to see how far the woke left and these radical socialist kind of borderline communists in San Francisco, how ineffective they've been at running those cities. Watching New York go from when I grew up in the 70s. and 80s being pretty dangerous, then Giuliani and Bloomberg cleaning the place up. And then now, gosh, it's just gone back into chaos every time I go to New York.
And I left San Francisco and I live now on a horse ranch here in Texas in Austin. And it's a lovely purple combination, I think, of what I loved about New York, L.A. and San Francisco and, you know, this Texas culture, which it feels to me. like the pure American culture, which is...
You know, it's great to be an entrepreneur. It's great to celebrate entrepreneurship and creation, which is the business I'm in. I invest in 100 new companies per year, as well as doing four podcasts a week. So I'm kind of like a broadcaster and an angel investor. I really was disheartened by what I saw happen with the Democratic Party and how they related to entrepreneurs specifically. Myself, Elon, Joe Rogan, Chamath.
We're all Democrats or left leaning. Right. We believed in freedom, supporting gay rights, supporting a woman's right to choose these kind of issues. And then the Democratic Party basically kicked Joe Rogan out. They kicked Elon out and none of us passed their ridiculous woke mind virus test. And I'm for freedom. I'm for freedom of speech. I'm a Second Amendment fan.
That party just went so far left. So I feel like I've always been right here in the middle, fiscally responsible, kind of Clinton Democrat. And then I feel like the Democratic Party just went off the deep end. Like I'm not down with, you know. giving surgery to children who are confused about their gender. Like that's crazy. If you ask 90, if you ask 100 parents, 99 would say. Are you crazy giving surgery to a child who's confused and has gender dysphoria? That's crazy. And now we're seeing...
Many countries in Europe and in fact here in the United States, some states saying, hey, yeah, no more of this. And doctors are being sued and the detransitioning movement is just heartbreaking. Why wouldn't a child wait till they're 18, 19, 20 years old? So those were kind of the issues that pushed me out of the Democratic Party. And, you know, with Trump and some of the things he does, I don't agree with. But when he put his agenda out for this term.
With the exception, again, we talked about it before, of taking hardworking, non-criminal immigrants out of the country, which I think would cause massive inflation and all kinds of problems for us and would be cruel and inhumane. I'm down with less government. I've always been for less government. I've always been for balancing the budget as an individual, as a company or as a country. And so when he decided he would bring, you know, Elon, who's a close personal friend of mine and.
Sacks, close personal friend of mine, and other folks in our circle into this administration. To do hard work and important work around supporting entrepreneurs and stopping waste, fraud and abuse. I mean, that's kind of my wheelhouse. So if Trump's going to evolve.
And he's going to stop being Captain Chaos. And he's going to stop putting people like Bannon around him. And he's going to put incredible entrepreneurs and the smartest people I know around him. I have no I have no choice but to support him. Right. I don't like some of the things he does.
stylistically but i'm not i don't really care about style points when it comes to The fact that I believe the country is on such an unsustainable path in terms of spending $36 trillion in debt, adding a trillion or two, and the amount of waste and fraud that's going to come out of Doge. I mean, I've had conversations with Elon. He's been very public about it. He had a presser with Trump in the Oval Office.
The stuff that's going to come out is going to be mind boggling. The amount of grift, the amount of criminal behavior and obviously wasted and waste is just so staggering. And we have to turn this around, Megan, if we don't get. this debt under control, it's existential. They have the saying, how did you go bankrupt? Slowly and then all at once. And that's where our country is. We need to stop.
the waste, fraud, abuse, and spending, and it's going to take collective austerity, but we have no choice. And it's going to take really bold leadership. It's unpopular to cut services. It's unpopular to stop spending. But Trump's on a free roll right now. He is. By definition, lame duck, right? He's not running again. So I'm here for it. I want to say one word in defense of Steve Bannon, with whom I've had a very interesting past 10 years. Oh, you have. I think Steve Bannon is actually very...
Very brilliant and was integral to Trump's, especially his first victory. But I think the second victory, too. And I know you may you may not like him, but I know that he's had quite a hand in staffing up Trump point. 2.0. And he's always there behind the scenes. He's a brilliant strategist. He may not be your cup of tea. He's not everybody's, but he is very important to Trump's success and has been, in my opinion. I want to say this on the subject of the illegals.
It is 59% of the American public approved deporting all of them, not just the criminals. The criminals is way up. That's extremely hard. But just anybody who's here illegally. 59%. I mean, that's huge to have 60% of the country agreeing on an issue like that. So that's why Tom Homan is saying they're all going. Now, realistically, are they all going? No, because it's impossible. We're having a difficult time even finding the ones who have committed.
felonies on top of being here unlawfully. It's just that's why it was so egregious for Biden to allow them in in the first place. We're just never going to get. all these people, even Homan's out this week saying, look, we've gotten a bunch of them, but it's not going as quickly as I'd like it to. And it's very frustrating for all of us. Here's one other thing. Let me ask you about this one, Shamath. I love the guys over at National Review, and they sometimes offer a sober reality to the...
joy that I hear more in the MAGA circles. You know, these are conservative Republicans who are not, they're not anti-Trump, but they're not like super pro-Trumpy. They had a great discussion on their editor's podcast this week about what's actually going to happen to the budget.
Right. Trump's going to make these cutbacks, even if Elon's allowed to go wild, which, as you know, they're filing lawsuits every day to try to stop the cuts that he and Trump are doing. But let's just say they withdraw all the lawfare. And all the cuts go forward, USAID, Department of Education, and on. Their point was, we're still going to run a deficit.
The budget's still going to go up this year versus where it was last year. It just won't be up as much as it otherwise would have been. We're not going to touch entitlement spending. And I got to be honest, you listen and you're like, ah. To Jason's point, slowly and then all of a sudden, we're still going to be on that course. We're in a really difficult spot. So I think it's important for your listeners and viewers to know this.
The last couple of years, the Biden administration, and specifically Biden and Yellen, did one thing that I hope no government afterwards ever does, which is they were effectively speculating on rates. And what they did was, you know, the Treasury's job is to finance the government, right? Their job is to go into the bond market, sell bonds.
use that money and redirect it to HHS, to Social Security, to defense, wherever. They financed it with all of this short-term paper. And part of it was they believed that Inflation would be in check and interest rates in the future would fall. So whatever happened, we would be able to go back into the markets and borrow later for cheaper. It turned out that was an enormously incorrect assumption.
And they should not have made that decision. So today, what Trump and Besant have to do is extremely difficult. They have about $10 trillion. So call it 25, 30% of our total debt. We have to refinance in the next six to nine months. And we're doing it against the backdrop where now inflation is ticking back up and rates are ticking back up. So why is that important? It's important.
Because now all of a sudden, like, what does this budget bill look like and what can we actually accomplish? There's the Senate version, which is super light. And it says, let's just deal with border security and military. And then there's what sort of Trump has asked for, which is the House version, which is this, quote unquote, one big, beautiful bill. The problem is those two things are on a collision course. And the big bill.
may be a little bit too early in the sense that to exactly your point, we don't know how bad the situation is. And if Besant goes into the market and gets clubbed over the head. And now all of a sudden we have $10 trillion that we have to borrow at five or five and a half percent. I think it's going to be really bad for the US economy, in which case there will be no choice except to make very deep cuts to.
in a broad-based way. So we almost need to buy some time and figure out how bad this situation is, which is why we need the air cover to sort of see how much Doge uncovers, because that'll make the problem less at the end of the day, right? Because cutting that stuff will mean that's...
fewer fixed programs we have to cut. So that's kind of where we are. So I think we're in a delicate 60 to 90 day period, I think. He's not only trying to find cuts, but he's having some fun with tariffs too, which could... be another source of income. I mean, Trump announcing yesterday, no one's tariffing us without us tariffing them. I'm using it as a verb, right? Like you slept 10% tariffs on any goods you sell in the United States, 100% guaranteed. That's what you'll get.
on your goods coming in here. And that just makes sense to me. I mean, like that, I think as a matter of fairness, most people are like, yeah. And even Trump admitted yesterday, there may be some short-term pain. He said there may not be. They're actually, but he's like, trust me, long term, this is going to work out well for us. How do you guys view the tariff threat and action? There is some short term wins already. So, you know, he slapped a tariff, I think, on.
European car imports or whatnot, and they capitulated and they lowered their import tariff for American cars to match their own. So effectively, he said it was 5x greater. So if you tried to take a Ford F-150 into Europe. And now that import tariff is effectively the same as what we charge European cars on the way in. So to your point, there's already been some early wins. And then when you look at like Canada and Mexico.
the threat of that 20 or 25% tariff essentially caused them to capitulate. So on the one hand, there's trade normalization. On the other hand, it's a negotiating gambit for other things that are more important in the moment, specifically border security and drugs and all of that stuff in the case of Mexico and Canada. But the reality is like that revenue source.
If you offset it somehow, it doesn't really do much to make the problem any better. Meaning, if you get a bunch of money in with tariffs, But then you also cut corporate taxes or you extend the tax cuts for individuals and make them permanent. The reality is all you're doing is sort of like, you know,
taking from Peter to pay Paul. It doesn't make the structural issue any better. And the structural issue is what Jason said, which is we have a huge debt wall that we are about to hit and we have to find a... permanent way out of it. And I think that's where the president is right, that there's going to be some short term pain, because I don't see how all of these things.
actually get to the core structural issue, which is we're just spending too much. Congress is appropriating too much money to things that we can't account for. And the law says once Congress says go, you can't say no. We have to go back into this. He wants to make the Trump tax cuts permanent, which I think most Americans will support. Even Joe Biden was saying he would keep the Trump tax...
cuts in place for those making under $400,000 a year. But he wanted to revoke them for those making over, which honestly is just silly because those are the business owners. Those are the employers who, you know, I'm an employer. I'm a small business owner. tax me more, I'm probably going to get rid of somebody.
I'm not just going to pay it to the federal government. Somebody's probably going to go. So that's how it works. So he's going to make the tax cuts permanent. He's also wanting other tax cuts, as you guys know, no taxes on tips. And I had a conversation with...
Senate Majority Leader John Thune earlier this week. I think that's a priority for them to get that no taxes on tips thing. And don't forget on the Trump tax cuts, Trump is calling for a return to the SALT deduction that those of us have in New York, Connecticut, which they...
didn't give us the first time when they cut the taxes because they were like, you're not going to get that too. That's too big a tax cut for you. But then the truth is my taxes went up. My accountant was like, you're actually doing better without these tax cuts, but it's fine. Anyway, my point is there's...
And it sounds good to say tax cuts, and I like it too. But there's a question about whether we can afford all these tax cuts. And no one, no one will talk about Medicare or Social Security, Jason. especially Trump. He's not dumb politically. He knows that's toxic. That's like, let me play in this nuclear waste dump. So fun. Yeah. So
This is exactly correct, Megan. You have two ways to cut this massive deficit we have every year and the national debt. You can either increase the amount of money coming in. through taxes, or you can cut spending. And you've nailed it. There are some big ticket items. And Medicare, Social Security, and of course, military spending are the big three. We haven't gotten to those yet. But I think that there will be... a moment in time when it will become tenable to talk about these.
Maybe just on the margins rethinking them. If you look at the last 10 years when Biden came into office, we're at $16, $17 trillion in debt. Now we've basically doubled it. Both parties are out of control with their spending and they've added two trillion a year. It's not sustainable. Everybody knows that it's about to break. And so it's going to take collective across both sides of the aisle looking at. Not just Doge.
But military spending, and this is where actually Trump does have a superpower. He's very good at talking to Xi Jinping and Putin and other dictators. You can make whatever joke you want to make there about how they vibe. But what he did with North Korea.
And going and talking to Kim Jong-un was just spectacular. This idea that you don't talk to – dictators is a huge colossal mistake in foreign policy and if he can get everybody to start rethinking how much we're spending globally on defense and maybe paring that back a little bit and then we can talk to americans about maybe instead of social security doing what they
do in australia which is called super annotation um we're based annuation rather, superannuation, or they just refer to it as supers in that country, if you've ever been there, instead of giving your money to the government and then the government giving it back to you when you retire. You're forced to put a little bit of money, 10%, 12% every year into essentially a directed 401k, but public equities. And if we started moving the country to that.
Then we could be like Australia eventually where the government's not in the business of providing retirement funds. You do that. You're forced to put money into the markets and then you get the money back as opposed to the government, which is really not.
great at capital allocation. By the way, did you see what Trump said yesterday, which was incredible on your first point? He said, once we get all of this Middle East stuff sorted out, my next order of business is to sit down with Putin and Xi Jinping. Yeah. We should figure out...
Yeah, we should be spending 50% less, he said. I was stunned that he said that. I mean, 10% less would be mind-blowing. 50% would be in trouble. 50% is like, but I love the way he negotiates. I mean, that is his best quality. Is there any world in which- the Chinese who have been working so steadily over the past 20 years to build up their military actually do that. He would deserve the Nobel Peace Prize if he were to make that happen.
They have systematic problems there, Megan. Like they got serious problems. Yeah, they do. But that military is important to them. The problem is that we have. like two versions of the military. We have the old school neocon version, which is still the dominant version on the ground, which is the projection of power, right? How do you project power?
you know, aircraft carriers and you have these F-35 planes and you have these huge frigates and all of this stuff, right? The Navy just announced, you know, a 30-year program. They're going to spend $1.2 trillion. They'll get 365 boats. Which is like, okay. It's crazy. But the real version is what Andrew is doing, which is everything is drone warfare. Everything is about AIs. You see it on the ground today in the Ukraine and Russia, which is that's how you fight a modern war.
that costs meaningfully less. And it's not necessarily a projection of power as much as it is a projection of capability and skill. So if you take the latter approach, you could easily spend 50% less. The former approach... really is about building big iron and big metal. And we all know that's complicated and it takes a long time. So you need a philosophical shift in how people think about geopolitics and the projection of power. This is why.
This is not exactly the same thing, but it's consistent with the new approach that this administration is taking. We have, of course, a new defense secretary, and it's not a big deal, but he is every morning out there. working out with troops. When he was back stateside, he was doing it. Now he's over in Poland. He's doing it. He posted this video today of him running with troops over in Poland saying, you know, fitness readiness starts in the beginning of the day.
There's no, you know, do we have a slot? We'll run it. It's just pictures. Okay. It's just pictures. By the way, he needs pants. It's too cold in Poland to run with just shorts. Is he running in shorts? He's running in shorts. He's running in shorts. It's snowy and it's Poland. I like it. But in any event. I like it too. I have to say, you know, like Lloyd Austin with all due respect was overweight, was in the hospital.
unaccounted for for like a week. We didn't know what was wrong with him. It's great to see a young, robust. defense chief and just a juxtaposition in the messaging. Now we, he's saying that we've had a record sign up and increase in troop numbers in December in anticipation of Trump taking office. And now in January, once Trump has.
And he points to specifically, among other things, the difference in recruiting efforts. Like, look at the ad that they just put out for special forces under the Trump DOD. listening audience, it says US Army, this enormous guy lifting enormous weights. Storm people are harder to kill. Strong people are harder to kill. That seems right. Just so you have the full picture. Stand by. Here's what they were running under Joe Biden. Although I had a fairly typical childhood, took ballet.
played violin. I also marched for equality. But as graduation approached, I began feeling like I'd been handed so much in life. A sorority girl stereotype. Sure, I'd spent my life around inspiring women. But what had I really achieved on my own? I needed my own adventures. My own challenge. And after meeting with an army recruiter, I found it. A way to prove my inner strength.
and maybe shatter some stereotypes along the way. Oh my gosh. The difference. Guys. It's crazy. I mean, as men, you must see the difference in messaging and why the numbers are going up. Well, look, I think that it's like there was like this fever and I think it's broken. And the thing is, it should be OK to be able to look at certain job categories.
and basically say, what is it that we need? So what should firefighters be able to do more than anything else? They should be able to put out fires and everything that that entails. What should a spec ops person be able to do? They should be able to kill with precision. And somehow we lost that where you weren't allowed to say those things anymore. And now I think we're getting back to just the common sense of it all. And there are other jobs, by the way.
that should be governed by empathy and compassion, and you should optimize for those. That's like a well-functioning society. And I don't know how we lost that script, but I think we're slowly getting back to that. This is a big omission, Megan, because I don't know if you've ever seen Chamath's thirst trap that he posted on social media, but he has very thin legs. His legs are not capable of carrying. He would not be a great firefighter. Megan, Megan, we can't carry anybody.
Is that what you're saying? No, Megan, I'm tall. He's tall, but he's got very thin legs. No, that's not true. Show the photo. Cut the photo in. Please go find the photo to my team. We're getting it right now. The military issue really is that what's going to happen on future military excursions, we're going to have to go on and go look like the Ukraine. We're going to look like Ukraine. Sorry to put the thought in there. You are going to have drones and there's.
A good friend of mine, Palmer Luckey, has a company called Andrel that's doing particularly well in this regard. There's another one, Vantan Systems, V-A-T-N. I'm not an investor or anything, but I had them on my podcast. And they were showing me their underwater drones. You can cut in a video of it. It's really cool, Venton Systems. They are producing these underwater drones for 75, 85% less than what the military spends now.
This is exactly what Elon did for putting people in space. And he lowered the cost by 90 percent. Those opportunities exist. And so if we can reimagine the military, we could have. more capability. We could be more competitive and we can do it at literally 50, 60, 70% less if.
We unleash innovation and entrepreneurship. And this is the thing that pushed me out of the Democratic Party, back to the original question you had for me. We have to support founders. It is very hard to start a company. You suffer. You're doing it now, right? You got to. exist in Fox and NBC and take the Lincoln Town cars and have all this stuff. Now you're an entrepreneur, right? You got to be scrappy and you got to fight. The Democratic Party abandoned.
and shamed entrepreneurs, and they're still doing it. Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are out there every day attacking Elon for doing something he doesn't need to do right now. He's already incredibly wealthy. He's got Tesla. He's got SpaceX to work on. And he's taking a side quest for the American people. Four, five, six months. He's moving into the government. This is costing him billions. Yeah, he's moved in.
month. Here's the thing about Elon. He could have gotten the deregulation that he wants for his industries just by all the donations and the blood, sweat and treasure he gave to Trump prior to November 5th. Trump owed him enough that he would have. probably tried to help Elon roll back some of the red tape he wants rolled back without Elon doing a single thing post 10-5. Everything he's doing now is because he genuinely wants reform. He wants the government to work differently.
for all of us, not just for him. Go ahead, Shamath. There is a framework that we talk about. I've talked about it a few times now. I'll just sort of share it with your audience to the extent it's valuable. I think we all want to be and remain the most important country in the world. That should be not really controversial. But the problem is that we have somehow found a way to debate how to get there.
And I think how to get there has always been the same and will always be the same, which is America is the best when it has the most vibrant economy in the world and the most capable and powerful military in the world. That's it. any country has had those two things. If you look back in history thousands of years, they've always been the most important and the most vibrant place, whether it's Rome or whether it's the British Empire. But underneath that...
is one thing in this modern iteration, which is you must have technical supremacy. You must. If you make the best clothes, it doesn't mean much. You could have a vibrant fashion industry, but it's not going to give you economic vibrancy or military supremacy. If you have great buildings, it doesn't do anything. You need technology supremacy. And this is why...
What Jason said is so critical. So why is Elon in there? I think part of what he's in there to do is to make sure that by helping to bat back some of these regulations, it's not just him, but there's so many others that hit this air pocket now. that can actually do stuff on behalf of Team America. And if you're technically supreme, your economy will be the best. Your military will be the best. By the way, look at like two days ago.
There's a $24 billion program to arm the army with this incredible next generation vision system. Initially, it was given to Microsoft. Microsoft realized they couldn't do it. What did they do? They gave it to a startup, Anduril. Now what happens? That technical supremacy filters in through the economy, gets into our military. Our military will be that much better than everybody else. And that cycle, for whatever reason, was frozen in time for literally 15 years.
And this is what we need to undo. And in that 15 years, the biggest mistake we made was we allowed China to catch up. And now they have a level of technical supremacy that rivals ours. and in some cases exceeds us. And that was a mistake that we allowed to happen. And we need to correct it. We're in a battle with them.
on many fronts, including AI, though not so much the Europeans. One of the things that happened this week was JD Vance went over to Europe and at a conference that was dedicated to discussing... slowing the AI march, he thumbed the middle finger essentially and said, we're not slowing anything. We're the United States of America. We're leaders on this and we intend to stay leaders on this. And then.
He made some other news, which I want to get to with you, but I just want to make one point on the drones. These things can be very threatening, potentially used by us and potentially used against us. And there was a report out earlier this week on how the Iranian threat against Trump's life was.
more serious than we knew. And it was to the point where they were deploying decoy Trump planes when not Air Force One, but Trump Force One, as they used to call his private plane when he was campaigning. to where like they just have staff on the one plane. And some of these staff would later say like, whoa, what? Like we were, we were on the decoy plane trying to like say, hey, Iran, Trump's here when he wasn't really there. Like uncool.
But they were reporting that, forgive me, I'm trying to remember who broke this. It was a very good report, but it was talking about, it was Axios. Okay. And it was talking about how at one point there was a drone hovering over Trump's vehicle as he was. traveling and the security secret service opened up the sunroof and shot it, shot it down right then and there. But that's like the,
These drones are effective. It's incredible that you say this. Do you know what the largest military company in the world is now? It's DJI. This was a Chinese drone company that people... relied on just for drones when drones were this, you know, a consumer pastime. But when it turned the corner, especially in this Ukraine-Russia war, where it became the de facto method of effective attack.
They sell parts every which way. Now, I'm not saying DJI is doing anything bad. I don't think they are. They're selling drones. Somehow it gets redirected and finds itself in all these places, but it's an attack vector. And in as much as it's an attack vector, that is now the largest military company in the world. It's China. It's based in China. It's an incredible thing.
It's not Lockheed Martin. It's not anybody else. And you know what? There's a lot of scrappy people, Megan, working on this. I read a story in the Wall Street Journal about some University of Toronto students who made. a dish that uses acoustics to interfere with the components specifically of DJI drones.
It's called Prandtl Dynamics, P-R-A-N-D-T-L Dynamics. So I had them on my podcast. I talked to them a whole bunch about how the technology works, and they were just students. Terrible name, by the way, to get funded. Terrible name. Anyway. Point is, P-R-A-N-D-T-L. You can just talk. Basically, they knocked drones out of the sky.
So I talked to them. I checked out the technology. It actually works. So I actually gave them the angel investing money to start this company. Jason, tell them to call it Drone Strike. Drone Strike. Perfect. That'll be the new name. Yeah. So there's all this technology that is coming out. And, you know, venture capitalists, Megan, it was very interesting when I when I started, I don't know, I started angel investing 12, 13 years ago. It's just a side thing to support.
friends and at that time venture capitalists wouldn't invest in military technology and in fact at google you know the kind of resistance inside of Google was protesting them, even providing things like Google Docs, like Gmail, to the military. And now that's totally turned around. Silicon Valley is enamored. And investors like myself, Chamath and others, Sachs too, we're looking and saying, hey, this is actually the patriotic thing to do.
On Trump 2.0... By the way, sorry, just on that, let me tell you a quick story. So I seeded this company about eight or nine years ago to make drones for the sea. It's called... Sail Drone, yeah, great company. And, you know, Sail Drone now has contracts with the Coast Guard and the Navy and all of this stuff. But these are, as you can imagine, autonomous drones that you can deploy literally from the United States and it can get to any conflict hotspot.
And it has all of the sensor arrays it needs to collect information, send it back, et cetera. But to your point, Jason, the obvious thing five years ago would have been to add some kind of kinetic ability to those drones, right?
Those drones, by the way, one of our drones was famously intercepted by the Iranian Navy, okay? I think in the Strait of Hormuz or someplace. But the reason we weren't able to add that kinetic ability five years ago... is because sort of internally, when you're building these things in Berkeley, California, people have an opinion on that this is not cool or the patriotic thing is to actually not.
make these things happen. And somewhere along the way now, I think we've had a couple of examples, Andrew being the best, where no, the patriotic thing is to actually make sure Pax America wins. And it's incredible that it took all this time for us to be able to say that without sounding like some right-wing loon. And now we have to play catch-up, which I think is the thing that frustrates me a little bit. It makes me concerned.
quite honestly. But if we can get it done, then I think we'll be in a much better place. It's happening. All I can think of is my husband's book, The Mysterious Case of Rudolf Diesel, which is about the Elon Musk of the early 20th century, Rudolf Diesel, who was German born, spent his childhood in France.
and was this genius who designed the diesel engine. It was his engine, and diesel should be spelled with a capital D to this day. When you go to the gas station, it's diesel, capital D, fuel for a diesel engine after this guy, but he was a peacenik. He was definitely a peacenik and did not want this engine to be used in war machines. His idea, his goal was for it to be used on like small farms who could put just vegetable oil in it and it can run off vegetable oil, Willie Nelson.
powered his diesel powered, I don't know, van or camper with a corn oil. And that's really what diesel thought it would be, but it wound up becoming so important. to war vehicles, to war boats in particular, both in England and Germany and then around the world. And there's really not a massive boat on the water that's not powered by diesel now. And Doug has talked many times about how, like, what would diesel think?
if he could see how his engine wound up getting used as like the main machine of war. And I think he... believes diesel would be against it because he never had the evolution, the final stage of the evolution. You just talked about your mouth. You know, it's a lot of these inventors start off feeling more altruistic and, you know, they think their products are going to go a different way, but then it takes a while for you to.
evolve to realizing even if in a machine of war, it can be an instrument of peace in a way. No, I was going to say is like, I mean, look at what happened through the Manhattan Project that started out as a complete project of war. But if you look at the downstream positive impacts of nuclear energy, the body of knowledge that we were able to accumulate.
essentially because it was directed through a war effort. Whether you agree with that issue or not, take that off the table. But it is undisputable how productive and useful nuclear energy is all around the world, how impactful it can be to actually give people... a better life, but it would not have advanced as quickly and as safely had we not gone through those phases of the Manhattan Project. A different example is the Apollo program.
in today's dollars, a quarter of a trillion dollars getting to the moon in the late 1960s and early 70s. That is the basis of everything we touch and feel today when you look at a computer. All of these incredible inventions came out of a government program that was about excellence, in part motivated by beating a competitor of ours in Russia or the Soviet Union at the time. So to your point.
Sometimes you have to be able to take these inventions and just have a grain of humility and say, you know what, like these things take a meandering path. And as long as you can eventually direct them constructively, you got a responsibility to do it. But when you get caught up.
In all of the virtue signaling and this other stuff, I think you can really slow things down. And these things have impacts. I got to give the floor to J. Cal when we come back from this quick break. But before we go, we found the picture. We report, you decide. Let's take a look. Yeah, let's look at this. The top looks great. Zoom in on those legs. Zoom in on those legs. He's not, Megan, I know how big you are. Megan, you're, he's not going to be able.
She appreciates it. You wouldn't be able to carry Megan out of a burning building. Bro, of course I could. Let me tell you something. I see strong core. That lesbian fire chief in SoCal, she would do a better job. Stop. Look at those legs. She's a large lady. I mean, she's a large lesbian. All right. Stand by. She would be able to carry you. You can email me Megan at Megan Kelly dot com.
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The good news is the Ladbrokes ACCA gives you auto insurance, free bets back and big odds boosts. So whatever else lets you down, it won't be your ACCA. It's a gaffer of an ACCA from Ladbrokes. You mentioned in the first hour a passing reference to... this show and your show and my status and yours as well as an independent broadcaster. And that brought something up that I've been meaning to mention this whole week. And now's as good a time as any. So over the weekend, it was announced that
Fox News had acquired, has acquired the company called Red Seat Ventures, which sells our ads. They sell the ads for the Megyn Kelly show, Red Seat Corporation. Fox acquired this company because they sell ads not just for the Megyn Kelly show, but for the Tucker Carlson show, for Bill O'Reilly show, for now Piers Morgan, who's got a YouTube show and so on.
And that's one of the challenges when you get into the space as an independent. You kind of have to partner with some sort of somebody who's got relationships with the ad companies. It's very, very difficult to do it yourself. You can't just start calling up Genucel and saying, hey, will you?
You advertise on the MK show. So Red Seat and this guy who runs it named Chris Balfe, they've been great partners to us. And I love Chris and he's been absolutely wonderful and his whole team to work with. So they. They help us out. They sell our ads. He's been an advisor to me and my professional life as well. So the media decides to take this story and announce or at least spin it such that.
I have been acquired by Fox News that the Megyn Kelly show is now owned by Fox, that the Tucker Carlson show is now owned by Fox. They spun it as. We're going home. There was one article from Reuters. The deal brings O'Reilly, Kelly, and Carlson back into the Murdoch fold through Red Seat Ventures, though Red Seat Ventures will operate independently within Fox's 2B Media Group.
No, it doesn't. It does not bring any of us back into the Murdoch fold. Nothing against the Murdochs, nothing against Fox. Very happy for Chris and Red Sea and for Fox. But this has almost nothing to do with us other than. I guess Fox and Tubi are now eventually going to, well, they own the company or most of it. That's selling our ads. That's...
it, but it was so annoying you guys as, cause I know you've worked for every ounce of that success and for every notch you've moved up on the podcast ranking. And It maybe it would have been helpful. I never offered it and I never wanted it, but probably would have been helpful to have the backing of a company like Vox News pushing me. But I didn't have it and you didn't have it. We earned all those ranks ourselves.
For once in my professional life, Fox News had nothing to do with one single viewer I have. Right? And now they're taking credit. It was annoying. Yeah, it was annoying to see this spun everywhere as some sort of an acquisition or a sellout by yours truly or Tucker. who I'm sure would never be selling to Fox, but it makes Fox look good to make it look like they acquired us, which they didn't and whatever. So it's kind of annoying. Anyway, Chris Balfe went on.
The Semaphore Podcast with Ben Smith, formerly of the New York Times and BuzzFeed. And they talked about this. And here's a bit of the exchange that just hit today. One of the most fascinating things of the deal is that you are the platform for three of the biggest stars Fox has ever had. Megyn Kelly, Tucker Carlson, Bill O'Reilly. And Piers had a relationship with Fox, but a little different.
And you have this radically different relationship with them, which was when Fox News, when you work for Fox News, you really work for Fox News. You do whatever they say. You do not do things they don't say. They have total control over everything you do. When you work for Red Seat, like Red Seat sort of works for you. It's an inverted relationship in which the talent has a lot of power. You, you know, get to work for them to the degree that you're providing like great service for them.
Great money for them. But it's an inverse relationship where you, as the media company, just have so much less control. You're kind of an agency for talent. You're exactly right about the characterization of the relationship, right? We work for them. They don't work for us.
And, you know, we operate at the pleasure of these hosts. And the minute that they see someone who's doing better for them, who can help them monetize better or grow their show better or whatever it may be that we're doing in each individual case, then they can move.
This is the way that this business works. And so if you want to be part of the creator economy, you have to realize that creators are in charge. And it's our job to do as good of a job for them as we possibly can to make sure that they do want to be. with us and not somebody else. I can like faintly hear like shrieks coming from Fox News World as you say creators are in charge.
It's pretty funny, right? So anyway, just to set the record clear, what he said is exactly right. Red Seat's not a platform for us. You know, SiriusXM is a platform. Apple, Spotify, YouTube, that's a platform. Red Seat's a partner that sells our ads and gives us some information on the podcasting industry and BALF. personally has been a great friend. It's a service provider. The reason why the traditional media writes that article-
is that they are hoping that some of these viewers may get turned off by it and stop watching or listening to you. That's the point. They're jealous. That's the point of that. They're jealous and diminishing you. You know, that's what's really happening here is I think.
independent. It's very rare for somebody to come out of the Fox world and be able to actually start a business. I've been in publishing my whole life and really publishing is three things. You got to have talent, which you clearly have.
You have to have distribution, which has now been democratized. You just give an RSS feed to Spotify and to Apple and you're good to go. And then you need to have ad sales. I'm actually shocked that you haven't brought that in-house yet because there's 100 ad salespeople. who will send their resume to you right now. And your cost of ad sales should be 10% or lower if you had an in-house team based on my knowledge of what you're doing. A whole new future. You're laying out for me here, J. Cal.
Keep going. Well, the rep firms tend to take 25 to 40 percent, and that's fine to start out. But for you to be a truly independent media company, you need to control that piece of the puzzle. And you can very easily and you will. I guarantee you by next year. And I make millions of dollars a year off this week in startups. All in doesn't have advertising. We probably leave 25, 50 million on the table every year because my co-hosts.
refuse to let me read the ads. I keep asking them, let me read the ads. You know why, Megan? Private aviation. Private aviation. I could be in a Phenom 300. I could be in a Pilatus PC-24 if Chun Moth would let me read one goddamn ad on the show. Eat the rich. Eat the rich. And this is what is making me crazy. Private aviation. But we make our money through the events we host. And that's a great business. And you were there. Thank you for coming.
It was our new tequila. And we're going to do all in tequila. And, you know, I got to spend some time with Ben Shapiro when I went to the inauguration, who I have great respect for in his team. Are you going to make a point? Are you trying to make a point? I am. And, you know, the other thing that's very interesting is what he's doing.
with cigars, razors, et cetera. They made their own brands. I think Meg and Kelly, you need, I don't know what you drink. You drink a Sauvignon Blanc. What is Meg and Kelly drink on the weekends? What's going on tonight on a Friday night? I've actually become a big fan of gin.
to tell you the truth. I'm a big fan of gin these days. Oh, a little G&T? Yeah. You G&T? Yeah. Okay, well, this is it. Or like gin and club soda with a lemon. I actually really like that. I call it the gin haven. All right, listen, make MKs.
Gin Haven. Right now. Let's get a gin company on here. You brand it. You put it in cans, bottles, whatever. It's going to make a billion dollars. Let's get Megyn Kelly paid. That's what I'm talking about. We're doing all in.com. I love where this is going. All in.com. But I love what you guys. just said, because that's what was so annoying to me. Like Yahoo, their, their headline Yahoo finance was, um, that, that, uh, they've acquired that I've gone home, that they've acquired my home.
Red Seat, with all due respect, is not my home. My home is my show, my editorial, and I put my home out to a various, you know... degree of uh platforms right like to to you they hate you because they ain't you megan that's it they hate you because they ain't you just well i didn't want people to be confused i didn't want like if fox news if i did sell out to fox news if fox news owned the megan kelly show it would change
What they were getting at there with Ben Smith and Chris Balfe was exactly right. Fox does control everybody who works there. Trust me, I know. That's why it's so amazing to be- in the independent lane right it's like you guys say that you can say whatever the hell you want the the the thing that's changed is that the news
has become totally commoditized, right? You can basically get the same facts everywhere. And I think what people have sniffed out is that it's people's opinions, especially smart people, who are consistent. That's what matters. You're one. Tucker's one. You know, on the left, Ezra Klein is one. There's people on both sides. But my point is that what people don't care about is if you, for example.
you know, wrote an article and the byline said the New York Times, you just wouldn't care as much as you used to. And in five years, they'll care even less. And it's the same with Fox. Now, those people, for a moment... They had the right to have the business model that they did because, you know, let's take Fox as an example. They literally spent billions of dollars to build the broadcast infrastructure to get in front of people. But that's been undone.
And so now I think the next 20 or 30 years will be about people who can be articulate, consistent, interesting. You know, some people will want partisan, some people will want independent, but that sorting function is going on right now. And I think that's why the media, I don't want to say that they lie, but I think that they can be.
Their insecurity around this one thing comes through in so many articles. You see it in the Doge articles. You see it in this article about the red seat. You see it. everywhere if you're paying attention for it, which is what they're really expressing is we're not nearly as important as we used to be. And so they have to go to more and more extremes because the relaying of the news.
doesn't really add that much value. You can go on X and get that in eight seconds. And the control, Megan, this is about control. You know, you and Tucker... supremely talented. They controlled you because they gave you these giant multi-year deals. You guys were at the top of your game. Eight figure deals is extraordinary. You guys top ticked it, as we say in the business, you hit the peak. And it's scary to be talent and then start from zero again.
But you did it. And now you control it. And now Tucker controls it. But, you know, you can see their top down control ruins the editorial. You could see it in that Dominion case that Fox had to settle. It matters. Yeah. And they start. messing with you and they try to steer you in one direction or the other. It's even more subtle than that. The audience gets it. The audience understands it now. Yeah. And it's more subtle than that. You don't need a $750 million lawsuit.
to go against you. Now what you have are things like the CBS clip of 60 Minutes. Yes. All of that just suddenly chips away at people's trust. Right now, I used to watch 60 Minutes religiously on Sundays. When I was growing up as a kid, I thought, OK, this is where I, you know, watch for an hour and I'm a little bit smarter for it.
And now when you see these kinds of things, you think to yourself, what is the point of even watching these clips? And then when you see the clip being distributed, you think to yourself, well, is this yet another moment where CBS cherry picks the editing of something to portray a message? I don't want. the cognitive load of having to deal with that and figure it out. I got, you know, I have kids, I have a business, I have a family, I'm trying to live my life just.
give it to me straight. And if you're giving me an opinion, I want to know upfront that it's your opinion. But what I don't want is the manipulation. It really is. Over time, you realize who you can trust and who you cannot. And, you know, for me, it's like that's it's fine. You know, I'm happy for Chris. I'm happy for Fox. But.
It matters who controls this show. And if some were suggesting like they have an ownership, I, I own 100% of the Megan Kelly show. I don't have investors. I have nobody. I have me. And, and that's the other thing. Like they're not wrong. When I worked at Fox. You couldn't say any, if you said anything.
like to the press, Irina Briganti, that snake would be all over you. They'd be dropping hip pieces on you to try to control you. And I'm delighted to have nothing to do with this person. She, I don't know, you know, what. I don't think Fox has any delusions that they would control me because they sell ads for me in this new context.
it's delightful to be able to not worry about people like that, you know? And you guys know, maybe you don't know, because I know you had lean years. We talked about how Chamath worked at Burger King when he was a kid. But, you know, after Fox and NBC, both of those organizations tried to destroy me. 100% try to destroy me. And you have those nights in your bed where you're kind of like sad and your career is blown up and you're like, Jesus. And bit by bit, then you build it back.
And the last thing you want is for somebody to come in and be like, oh, she sold out. She sold out to one of them. Like in the end, she bent the knee and went back. That's not at all what happened. I had nothing to do with this. It wasn't my decision. And when I tweeted that out, again, not trying to antagonize Fox. I see why they're smart to have made this move, just setting the record straight. But when I tweeted it out, you guys won't be surprised to learn, everybody.
Every one of the people who follows me on Twitter was like, we got your back. We get it. We knew it. Don't worry. It's just a brand new world. Can I make a prediction? Just three legs of the stool, Megan. You have two of them. And you got half of one. You got to make that last leg of the stool very strong. I agree with that.
Chamath and I, we brainstormed and we built this infrastructure inside of All In so that we never have to bend the knee. And we have the FU money and the FU platform. There's a picture. I don't know if, Alison, you can find it, but there's a picture. of SpaceX's engines. They're the Raptor engines and they're sitting side by each. Okay. Raptor one, then Raptor version two, then Raptor version three.
I think what's happening in the creator economy is very akin to that picture, which is that if you're going to build something real, and I think the creator economy is real because mainstream media is decaying. To build something real takes at least 15 years. There's no shortcuts. There's nothing you can do about it. And what happens is the first version, all it has to do is just kind of work and hang together. And a lot of people will dunk on you.
And a lot of people think that you're still kind of, you know, wasting your time or you're working on a pet project or whatever, but you're not. Because the minute you get that version one working and you've gotten version one working, Tucker has, Ezra Kelly has kind of, but he should really leave the New York Times and do it on his own. Or Ezra Klein, sorry.
What you are then allowed to do is work on version two and version two is the first version of it. That's like a real thing that can stand alone. And then four or five years later, you get to this version three and that is just. excellence. And that's when everybody else goes out of business. And I see this pattern in so many businesses. It's going to happen in this creator economy. So you, Mr. Beast, us, Tucker.
We're on version one. It's very rough around the edges. People are figuring it out. We're all going to make mistakes. But that version two... is when there's going to be this meaningful downtick in the New York Times, in the Washington Post, in the Wall Street Journal. By the way, I said this, I had probably 15 media subscriptions.
I'm down to one, which is the Wall Street Journal. And I'm looking for every reason to just dump it. And for me, it's the anxiety of there's probably some financial news. that I will miss and I won't really get on X or with the other places. But the minute I feel like I can, I will. Now, version two has to solve a much bigger problem, though, which is in once we're all out there making opinions, the other...
problem that it will highlight is that the algorithms are brittle. And we're going to have to figure out, well, how is our... information getting in front of the right people? And how do we make sure that it's not just a bunch of million echo chambers so that we become fragmented?
That's not solved because right now we go into a centralized algorithm, right? Everything goes into one version inside of Meta or inside of X or inside of Google. And Jason's talked about this before, which is this idea like there should be... a marketplace and a competition for these algorithms as well. That's the next part of fixing the media cycle. Because some people-
may literally want to just stay in a partisan bubble, but some people want the media diet to be balanced. How do you get that? Today, it's impossible. It's funny because I was speaking with a very smart person about YouTube algorithms, and this person doesn't work for YouTube.
I was saying, well, how do you, you know, how can the Megyn Kelly show go from three and a half million subscribers to 20 million subscribers? And it later became clear to me that this person was of the left. And of course his answer was. You have to be more moderate, put on more Democrats, you know, like reach across the aisle. I'm like, okay.
How can we do it without me changing my business model? Because I must be honest. And I don't think the secret to my next level success is to populate the show with a bunch of leftists. I do have a lot of Democrats on the show, but the answer is not to change anything about my content. It's to make sure the algorithm picks up the content. The most important thing in media, and I told this to my squad on all.
And when I was, you know, in the early days, it was just hard to get these guys to show up every week. And I just sat them all down. I said, guys, the number one way to be successful in media is to show up every day. Consistency. And that's what you have. You are a juggernaut. You show up every day. You're consistent. And I subscribe to you. Congratulations on breaking 3 million. That's extraordinary in a short period of time. Consistency is the key.
And when we started out, you know, Freebird can't make this day, Chamath can't make this day, whatever. Now, nobody misses. Every Thursday, it's locked in. Nobody misses. Whether I'm in Japan skiing or Chamath's in Italy, we're all in. And that's the way to do it. And hey, when are we going to get this Megyn Kelly Con? That's what you need to do. MKCon with the G&Ts. Sell a thousand tickets, get all your fans there. I would come to MKCon.
This is where Jason just embarrasses himself. He just, he starts off so strong. I have ideas for Megan. If you had to grab your performance on this show, it starts off so hard and then it just crashes. It's the bell curve. I'm really good about our relationship. though. I feel like my relationship with J. Cal has come full circle. Look at us now. It really is. By the way, guys, just to clean up on this, there's an incredible paper.
published by TikTok, the engineers at TikTok, about how they do personalization and their algorithm. And this is what made me think about this, which is why don't I have the choice to opt into it? Now, the interesting thing that they do that nobody else does is no matter what your content preferences are, they will always seed you.
with something that's a little bit off topic slash off brand slash off interest, because they're always trying to get this, you know, this more visceral reaction to do you engage in it or not? And it's just an insight to me that even if you are one way, the most valuable algorithms that we all need to make content on top of need to get that right, which is how do you expose it? Even if you're.
exposing it to someone that just viscerally disagrees, but it just makes the content more valuable and it makes the service better. And I think that that's like the next big turn. That's the version two of that Raptor engine that we all need to get right. That makes a lot of sense. I mean, it's been interesting the past couple of years when Facebook de-emphasized news, you know, it used to be such an important platform for people who are in news really kind of before.
We all came into this space. It was very important. Like for Ben, I know when he was building his show, it was extremely important to Facebook. And then they just decided in the wake of all their woke ism and their annoying politics that they were going to stop platforming news and people.
kind of lost their newsfeed. A lot of people who use Facebook for news lost their newsfeed. And for us, we just started using Facebook to promote our more cultural content. We do a lot of cultural segments on the show and that wound up working out fine for us because. That works very well on Facebook. Facebook likes those segments. They'll recirculate them a lot. It's alternative content in the way you just described.
My wife and I went down the rabbit hole of the Blake Lively, Justin Baldoni thing. It's a good rabbit hole. Yeah. We lived inside of your clips for a while. Those were living rent-free in our head. Well, I talk to Brian Friedman all the time, and I predict it's not going to end well for Blake Lively. I don't think, I think.
This will not go to trial. It's been set for trial March of 26. There's no way they're going to let this. She's going to let this go to trial because she really will turn into Amber Heard, who had to leave the United States after that trial against Johnny. Did you guys watch? Did you guys watch the movie? Did you guys like the movie?
I did not watch the movie, nor do I have any desire. Do you know why it's so contentious, Megan? Because there's so little at stake. There's so little at stake in this Blake Lively thing. What do you mean? There's just like, who cares? There's just a bunch of like... you know, Hollywood people fighting a bunch of elites. But it's a peek behind the curtain. That's why I care. It's so interesting.
I guess so, the PR stuff. She truly, I know this gets overused now, but she did FAFO. Like she thought she could blame all of her negative press on him. He's a weakling. She's Blake Lively with Ryan Reynolds, her dragon. She decided, I can't take one month worth of negative press, which she got.
you know, generated, she says by him, he says by you and your badness. And she's so thin skinned, you know, like, look, look what happens to you. Look what happened to poor J Cal even on this show. People get picked on when they're in the public eye, right? Like look at.
just Google Megan Kelly. You'll see terrible articles about me. It's part of being in the public eye. She's just used to being Hollywood's golden girl. And she had such thin skin that after being, having a couple negative things happen to her for a month, she had to. blame him. She decided to blame him. And boy, does she open up a hornet's nest and learn, be careful what you wish for, because now you've got the fight you asked for and you're not winning it. I love my jaders.
My Jaders make me greater. I love them. That's Raiders, the Jaders. I love it. You branded the people that hate you. Oh, absolutely. I mean, how do you think I have so many followers? All these people who hate me, they all follow me. That's the thing. Are you speaking of David Sachs? They retweet you. You know, David, it's so funny. I was never into politics. David inserted politics into the All In podcast because it's his passion. And I've actually enjoyed.
you know, sparring with him over it, refining my positions on it. It's made me think about it. in a much deeper way because I just never liked it. And, you know, we have these, like, grand debates on Putin and Ukraine and, you know, who's that called there? That's how I first heard Shamath's name. Early on, you were early to say, I just, I'm sorry, but I don't care. Like it's, you know, you said it very plainly, but frankly, most of the country landed where you were then. Like, it's not that we.
don't care at all about what happened to the Ukrainian people, but it's like we have our own problems. We can't keep throwing good money after bad on that conflict. And don't you think that's what Trump's really been saying these past couple of days? And Hegseth has been saying like, look, it's got- to end. Of course, Russia is going to have territory. Ukraine's not getting back its entire borders.
Obviously, Ukraine's not joining NATO. Pete Hegseth got a hard time from the press for actually saying that, but we all know that. It's like, did he really give up the farm when we all know that, Chamath? No, and I think he said the quiet part out loud, and you weren't allowed to say it because it was, you know, almost like some, it was like a virtue signaling.
Test, you know, you have to maintain this line, even though everybody behind the scenes already knew to your point, the answer. I mean, the crazy thing about Russia, Ukraine is a couple of things. One is, you know, it pulled us in. to a situation where the Europeans really should have been taking the lead?
And instead, you know, we had to have the opinion. Then we became the major funder. It turns out we sent, you know, 200 plus billion dollars, of which at least 100 billion has gotten completely misplaced, which is unbelievable. And it just goes to show you that you can't even have a conversation about what's right or wrong. And so now, do we need to audit what happened over there? Probably. Do we need a resolution? Yeah, instantly. And I would rather us be able to take our mental energy.
and focus it internally. And I think that we weren't allowed to say that. To your point, when I said that, it was really more in the context of China and some of the things that are going on in China, but it also applied to Ukraine and applied to many things. you know, people tried to cancel me. And I thought, wow, this is crazy. And now it looks like, you know, most Americans, I think to your point, believe that the right thing to do is just to focus internally and get our house in order.
Trump said yesterday he had direct talks with Putin that he thinks he's ready to make a deal. He did it without Zelensky. People said, how could you do it without Zelensky? He said, I got to find out first whether Putin wants to make a deal. Now I know he does want to make a deal. And then I talked to Zelensky, who also wants to make a deal. He doesn't think that...
Zelensky doesn't think that Putin genuinely wants to make a deal, but Trump's like, we're going to make a deal. All right. And no one's going to walk away thrilled, but. we're not going to keep funding this thing. And Hegseth said, we're definitely not going to have American boots on the ground over there, maintaining security. That's going to have to be Europe. That's your, and the Europeans are like, why weren't we on the call? It's like, would you?
There's only one person who can get this done, and he happens to be in the White House Oval. And he'll get it done. The Europeans will provide the security for it. He secured all that money that Ukraine took from us with- Earth materials that we need that are in Ukraine is the one thing they can give to us. This is the key point. Right? He finally got us something for all this money. But here's the thing.
Biden, and I brought this up countless times with Sachs, and we had this very vibrant debate on it where I said, listen, this is a loan lease. They are buying these weapons on loan, and they have to pay it back. And Sachs was like, to his credit,
That's never going to happen. Biden's never going to ask for the money back. It's going to be a donation. We all know that. You know, Trump comes in. He cares about money. He cares about the balance sheet. He knows we have issues around our solvency. And he said, you know what? I want the money back. It's a loan lease.
which is what we did during World War II, and Ukraine's going to pay every dollar back. If Ukraine pays every dollar back, we do a 10, 20-year, you know, Ukraine can't join NATO for 10 years, no big deal. We can outlast Putin. And that's the thing you have to realize about these dictators. You know, they have a certain lifespan. They typically implode. They cause their own problems, as Putin and Xi and North Korea have done. The best thing is to contain them.
And you know who's great at containing them and managing them? Trump. They respect him. He's a strong man. He's crazy. He's Captain Chaos. He saber rattles. He threatens them. They respect him. And they're a little scared of him, I think. And if he gets all that money back from Ukraine, we will have protected democracy. We will have contained.
Putin and, you know, all's well that ends well. So I really hope and I actually think Trump's going to pull it off and I would give him a lot of credit when he does. I think we have a lot of good news. I mean, as good as we could ask for when it comes to wrapping up that conflict, because it's got to end. It's just at this point. Give us our money back.
The long tail of that conflict, though, guys, is going to play out over many decades in Europe. I think that, you know, the question is, can Europe change the playbook? Meaning, you know, in the middle of that conflict to basically just... torpedoed their ability to actually import energy, to then still continue down the path of turning off domestic nuclear. France was the only one that basically said, this is crazy. I'm not going to do it.
and then have to import all this energy from all over the world at all these exorbitant prices. At the same time, the economy is sort of very fragile. The European continent isn't- a lot of trouble. And these last three or four years have actually added a lot of fuel to the fire. So I think smart people need to have a better opportunity to just
Be smart in public and then have the public be able to absorb that and actually make decisions. That's why these things are nuts. Like what's happened is crazy. That's a good transition. Smart people saying smart things to J.D. Vance. back in Munich with a truth bomb in front of the Europeans who were reportedly just stunned in their seats, uncomfortable shuffling when it comes to free speech.
which is, I mean, Europe has just been absolutely abysmal on and immigration, which to take what I said about free speech times 10. So the sitting vice president of the United States goes over there. These are allies. Yes, but man. He did not mince words. Here's a little of JD Vance in Munich yesterday. Heard a lot about what you need to defend yourselves from. And of course, that's important. But what has seemed a little bit less clear to me.
and certainly I think to many of the citizens of Europe, is what exactly it is that you're defending yourselves for. What is the positive vision that animates this shared security compact that we all believe is so important? And I believe deeply that there is no security if you are afraid of the voices, the opinions, and the conscience that guide your very own people.
Europe faces many challenges, but the crisis this continent faces right now, the crisis I believe we all face together, is one of our own making. If you're running in fear of your own voters, there is nothing America can do for you. Nor for that matter, is there anything that you can do for the American people who elected me and elected President Trump. I'm sorry, that was earlier today. But it's amazing to hear him say it, no?
I think so. I think he has to basically set this agenda very, very clearly. Europeans are going to be at the forefront of like this next phase of very difficult decision making. I'll give you one example. the amount of rules and regulations that they make around climate change and the impact that it has economically all over the world, including domestically in their own countries. How are they going to deal with that now that we have to recognize?
Nothing the Europeans do actually has a meaningful impact on climate. Whether you agree with it or not agree with it, it's irrelevant. You need to look at China and India. That's where the whole game is played. If you can't say that inside of Europe, inside of the borders of Europe, how will you ever change the rules? That's an example. A second example, there is not a single company that's getting started today.
that has a desire to locate an office directly inside of the UK or Europe. Why? Because the regulatory framework will now come and really go after you if they don't like a single thing that you're doing. So what now happens to the European economy? They get deprived of their chance of having some small modicum of technological supremacy. What do you think happens to those economies?
So if you add all of these things up, it all goes back to the root cause that JD is identifying. If you can't say it, you can't fix it. And so they have to decide what page they're on. And it's even worse than that, Chamath, if you think about the fact that they're not content to just have this regulation impact their citizens and to make.
unbelievably stupid decisions like the Germans turning off three of their remaining nuclear reactors and then building a pipeline from a dictator to buy oil directly from Russia. The French figured it out. They were 90 percent at the peak nuclear. Now they're about 60 and about 20 percent renewables. They're totally energy independent. The European Union wants to.
regulate American companies. We have companies like Adobe wanted to buy a tiny company called Figma for 10, 20 billion dollars. You know who stopped it? It was the Europeans. It was the UK. It was the UK. So yeah, they're going after our companies and what we're doing. My advice to those companies were, you know what? If you're Adobe or Figma, stop selling your product. The UK, block the UK. It's a meaningless market. They're so deranged with the regulations. They want to have them apply.
to the rest of the world and to Tremont's point. Elon was battling this when it comes to free speech and X in Europe. And the free speech battle, I mean, it's a reminder of why we left. England. Why we, as Americans said, you know what? The most important thing to us, amendment number one is free speech and they don't have it anymore. It's all but dead in Europe. There was a great tablet magazine piece. I actually just pulled it.
in advance of today. And, uh, it's, it's written by a guy named Paul du Quinoy. And he goes on about what just happened in Germany with this compact magazine and how there's, there's, um, a rule in Germany. There's a law that says that they can shut you down. They can shut your speech down if they think that it is...
inconsistent with their constitutional order, the constitutional order of their country. And so they went in, they think this is a quote, far right magazine because it supports this ADL party. sorry, AFD party that is very anti-illegal immigration. And they went in, they seized, they have like 40,000 subscribers.
They seized the offices. They basically took over control of the whole thing and shut it down from publishing. The thought of that happening in the United States, I mean, it's there would be a full. I'd like to think. So he's speaking to the right audience there. They do need to hear it. And I'll just give you one more soundbite before I give it back to you. You mentioned there, you know, there.
insane green energy, a commitment at the expense of their own people. JD tied that and the free speech together in SOP 30. and expressing opinions isn't election interference. Even when people express views outside your own country and even when those people are very influential.
and trust me i say this with all humor if american democracy can survive 10 years of greta thunberg scolding you guys can survive a few months of elon musk what no democracy american german or european will survive is telling millions of voters that their thoughts and concerns, their aspirations, their pleas for relief are invalid or unworthy of even being considered.
This is he's completely right. I'll give you an example of this. You know, I've I've been to 10 Downing a couple of times in the last four or five years with all of the relationships. that I've tried to build in Europe and in the UK, I think Greta Thunberg has met with more of the leaders there than I have multiplied by like 10. Now, that's fine and good for Greta Thunberg, but...
I think the point is that there is just this incredible animated energy to wrap yourself around these moral ideals without questioning whether they were legitimate. And I don't exactly know why. it happened or where it came from but jd's right if you you need at some point you just got to rip the band-aid off and course correct and i think europe's at that moment america is at that moment
We're clearly doing it. And you can tell that they are just so viscerally concerned and it just it really pushes against the grain of 20 or 30 years of embedded behavior. But I think Europeans are capable of it. They just need to figure out that it's existential as well for them. I think they're starting to feel it, though, in the same way we reached our...
boiling point and reelected Trump. You know, the woman, JD mentioned a different man who was arrested for praying outside of an abortion clinic. I remember this video. It's a woman. Her name was Isabel Vaughn Spruce. She was... silently praying, guys, in her head. She's sitting there silently praying. They come over and say, what are you praying in your head? What are you doing? She's like, I'm silently praying in my head.
outside of an abortion clinic. You have to go. They arrested her. That's what it's come to across the pond in, you know, a distant relative now. Of the United States. I don't think we can really even understand this, although we're getting a little dangerously close in incident after incident, in throwing the book at people who are praying outside of abortion clinics.
here to the point where Trump had to pardon some of them. You know, it's not nearly as bad as it is overseas, but I think you're right. What do you think, Jake, how that they're reaching their breaking point? The citizenry has had enough of this. I don't know where America... Or how we got onto this weird side quest that we had to police speech when I grew up. UCLA was out there saying, we're going to let the Ku Klux Klan march down Main Street because that's better to defend.
uncomfortable speech than lose freedom of speech. It's a reason why we put it as number one. Across party lines, we believe that. 100%. That was a Democratic position, in fact. And by the way, the border, it was the Republicans' position. But 15, 20 years ago that we should have an open border because they wanted to reap the benefits of NAFTA and free trade. So these parties have just flip flopped their positions. And the idea that Americans can't say what they want, even if it's on.
popular is crazy. You look at you brought up Zuckerberg before. He was more than willing under Biden, Kamala, everybody to ban speech on his platform. YouTube would put warnings on. The All In podcast when we talked about the science behind COVID? Like, you really need to give people a warning? Like, Friedberg's a scientist. Like...
You're warning people, blocking content. It makes no sense. If Kanye West, as but one recent example, is a racist, mentally ill, whatever he is, and he posts crazy stuff, we can all see it. Now we know. Kanye is mentally ill and or he's a huge fan of Hitler's. Great. Now we know we don't have to do business with him. I always love the fact that these idiot, racist, lunatics would out themselves. That's good.
And it's good for our kids and everybody else to see, hey, here's racist people. Here's racist evil people. They exist in the world. They're nuts. There they are. And you can ignore them. You can change the channel. If you don't like what somebody is saying, you can listen or you can create your own media today and counter it. You could write an essay. You could do your own monologue on your own podcast.
Why silence people? I don't understand what the point is. It basically says to me you can't win the argument. Or you're not willing to engage the argument. You're too scared. You're too afraid to hear the words. I agree with you on Kanye. I think he's, or Ye, he's now in the middle of another mental health episode. I think that's what this bizarre latest behavior is. It is sad. I've said it long. I don't understand.
People should stop platforming him like this. Like, you know, like he during his last meltdown, he was on News Nation and it was like that. Don't don't try to monetize his mental break, which is very clear. He's in the midst of we all know he's got this issue. It's so interesting you bring this point up as a broadcaster, broadcaster, broadcaster. I had a conversation with Lex and I was talking to Lex. He's like, should I have Kanye on? I'm going to try to get.
through to him i said i said lex you're a great interviewer we're friends he's mentally ill And you're going to platform, I guarantee you, in the first hour or two, he's going to say something so crazy, and then you're going to be responsible for propagating it. Guys, where's the balance between free speech and platforming and deplatforming then? Well, if you know the person's got mental illness, I mean-
How do you know, Jason? Have you watched him? And have you heard his family say he's having an episode? His family says he's having an episode. And she was married to him for, what, 10 years? Like, I... I take her at a word on that. And I know he's denied it. I should say that. But it does seem he goes through these bouts of very bizarre behavior that don't necessarily match up with how he is.
The rest of the time. I mean, maybe it is just him. If there's any doubt about the mental wellness of the person, I wouldn't put him on. I would be too worried about exploiting. a weak moment, you know, like a low moment for the person mentally in the same way that you can't, I don't know if you guys have ever had somebody that, you know, a friend or family who's actually dealing with mental illness. You can't get through to them. You can't say.
You're having a mental episode. Please stop saying that, you know, they're not reachable. So it's kind of like the whole thing is pointless other than for just like a voyeurism sake. Football, it has its ups and downs. There's the players who kiss the badge and kiss the club goodbye. Right after you've splashed out 100 quid to get their name on your kit. And oh, the A-list striker who always sticks it in Rosehead.
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There's another podcast with the very annoying Kara Swisher and her partner, Scott Galloway. I know that decided it would be a great idea to arrest. the doge workers under Elon. I mean, Scott Galloway openly called for them to be arrested.
And Elon responded on X saying, Swisher and Galloway are threatening talented young software engineers who gave up high compensation for death threats in order to help the American people. Shame on them, Swisher and Galloway. Cruel, mean, and deceitful human beings that they are. Then those two went back on their podcast and said the following in Sot 10.
Like they traded it because this is what they want to do and they were enthusiastically doing it. And we don't have to like them. And just by not liking them, we're not threatening them. So that's. fucking nonsense and neither you didn't threaten them in any way and it's a larger part of his strategy of intimidating journalists they're trying he's trying to shut us up if he's going to accuse me of overreach yeah then
Come after me, bitch. To go after the woman, it shows one of two things. Either you're weak. or you have an incredible bias, i.e. misogynist. Let's just get to the source here. It's just so clear the guy wants to fuck me. That's what I said. The sexual tension is palpable. I get it. I get it. And he's rich, so there is a shot. What is that? I mean, it's irrelevant. You explain it to me.
That's Kara Swisher. She says she's the tech journalist. She's the one who covers your industry better than anyone. You know, I was friendly with her for a long time with Karen Swisher. I'm sorry, Kara. Same. And, you know, she kind of when she was with Walt Mossberg, you know, she really focused on the tech, the business. She was a little spicy on the margins as a broadcaster. But when she partnered with Scott Galloway, the whole thing went really dark. And, you know, he have some simple.
for him. He's talked about mental illness, depression, whatever, very publicly on his podcast. And I think he's so desperate to get ratings. and they're making you know decent money i think from their pockets they've been talking about you know they're making eight figures with their new deal or whatever
They just do Elon for clicks, right? In the NBA, I'm a Knicks fan. We have an expression, Knicks for clicks. You get a lot of clicks if you talk about the Knicks because it's a big market. You get a lot of views if you trash Elon. But I do think- You know, they're saying some things that are truly offensive and then which is fine. But he also was like making jokes about Trump being assassinated. I thought that was incredibly poor taste. Like you really shouldn't make jokes about, you know.
Potential assassination of the president. Especially this president. Yeah, it's like happened twice. And, you know, I think he's off the deep end. You know, people send me clips and they go viral and stuff like that. But she's making a cottage industry out of being this alleged Elon expert because she's interviewed him. I mean, so has Don Lemon. Doesn't make him an Elon expert.
I was with Elon like the two or three times she interviewed him, like because we're friends and we hang and it's irrelevant. And, you know, like trading on other people's. brand, like just go build something in the world, go do something yourself. And I think these commenters are not actually in the arena, as my friend Shamoff likes to say, they're not building something. So they just want to tear people down and it's good for ratings or whatever, but.
It just seems super illogical because to what we were just talking about with Germany and Europe, they're just out of sync with how people think. We have bigger problems. They're super out of sync and they're not objective. You know, I can come on here and I can talk about, hey, here's where we differ in the border. And you can have an intelligent conversation about it. I think they're just off the deep end with Elon derangement syndrome, Trump derangement syndrome. I think they're just.
really scared of what's going to happen during this presidency i can tell you what's going to happen during this presidency exactly what happened the last time it's going to be a bit chaotic stock market's going to go up we're going to balance the budget a bit He'll stop the wars. He's good at not starting wars and he's good at stopping them. And I think it will be a relatively successful presidency. And then somebody else will win and life will go on.
This idea that Trump's going to destroy the world is crazy. He didn't destroy the world last time. They're calling JD 48, which I. like, and fully support. I got to run. I'm up against the clock. You guys, what a pleasure. Thanks so much for coming on together. This was fun.
Thanks, Megan. Good times. Happy Valentine's Day. Yeah, we could do this a Valentine's Day tradition. Absolutely. You're booked. Consider yourselves booked. See you next year. See you next year. Have a wonderful week. All right. You too. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.
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