Hello, Welcome to the Media Show. I'm Carol and Russo filling in for Jack Howton. This week Big Show Ahead, as the ABC admits it ignored a warning about serious errors in its coverage of an Afghanistan war story. But first on Wednesday night, the Loewy Institute Media Lecture was delivered by ABC chair Kim Williams. The tenor of this lecture is to discuss the connection between journalism and Australia's
place in the world. The content of William's speech sounded like a benign and obvious common sense to me, with the caveat that the walk means more than the talk. But in the context of the bonkers world we live in, and depending on your view of that world, it could have been considered as elite leftist propaganda or a right wing Zionus conspiracy the joys of the widening Overton window. In his speech, william spoke of the importance of trustworthy news and how the truth really matters.
My address today is on the vital importance of trustworthy news and coverage about international affairs. It has a simple theme. The truth matters, and I mean really matters, especially right now. One can't approach this subject without reference to undoubtedly the deepest thinker of the last one hundred years on the
relationship between politics and the truth. George Orwell or Will famously served in the Spanish Civil War and noted how while in Spain he continuously read news stories about things that quite obviously never actually happened. Small skirmishers he participated in involving a few dozen soldiers were written up as huge battles complete with tanks and aircraft. People he knew to be loyal were announced as traitors and accused of conspiracy to betray the republic. He himself was denounced as
a fascist. All of it pure invention, made up by propagandists to suit the needs of fascists, communists, and others. Famously, he described this trend towards inventing facts for political ends as frightening because and I quote it often gives me the feeling that the very concept of objective truth is fading out of the world.
Pertinent way to kick things off, and who better to be a historical reference to George Orwell, the genius author of the dystopian novel nineteen eighty four, which warned us all of the ministry of truth. It was interesting him speaking about populous demagogues, the communists and the fascists and how they use news to broadcast what they think should have happened according to the politics of the day. And while he opined that fascists and communists were the worst, he said they were not alone.
And I think that is probably right.
People may not carry those precise monikers or fit neatly in those boxes, but they can carry those tendencies and will attempt to exercise power where there's a failure to protect freedom of speech, where political expediency takes priority over objective truth. Williams went on to speak about news broadcast during World War Two and how the BBC was considered the least censored and the most trustworthy news.
The BBC the truth, reliable, facts, trust. These things went together along with freedom and still do. The story of the BBC in World War II tells us something. Freedom and the truth go together, and when truth is absent, tyranny is never far away.
Absolutely right, and are the good old days? A far cry from a headline this week where the BBC allegedly told the director of the Nova Massacre film we Will Dance Again, not to discribe Mussus terrorists what should they have been described as freedom fighters? Pastry chefs. Like the ABC, the BBC is a shadow of its former self and one can only rely on a glorious legacy for so long. Anyway,
Williams went on. He spoke about how a strong media, led by people who believe in professional journalistic ethics is one of our most important democratic assets. Yep, agreed, no objection from me, and that misinformation has become politics by another means, and disinformation has become war by another means. Interesting analysis. More on that with my panel, and then he said this.
The task for people like me is to create more opportunities for you three and your journalistic colleagues to investigate, inform and report. It's my intention as the chair of the ABC, with my colleagues on the board of the ABC, to do just that. I, like many others, live in eternal hope.
And then towards the back end of his speech, he made two following comments.
First, this Australia has an interest in a duty as an affluent democratic and former imperialist nation in our region to do all we can to promote a thriving democratic media and counter the spread of misinformation, disinformation.
And censorship, and a bit later this.
And it's why everyone who cares about Australian, regional and global democracy, no matter what news organization they work for, must also fight to ensure George Orwell's nightmare vision of a world in which objective truth cannot survive does not come true.
Objective truth.
Ironically, words like misinformation and disinformation are offer banded around in order to conceal objective truth. And that's the issue. It's a suppressive, ill conceived solution to a problem which can be better remedied by more openness, more ideas and frankly a lot less government. Overall, William's speech it hit the right notes. It told me everything I wanted to hear. But as I said earlier, the walk is more important
than the talk. And my gratuitous advice to Kim Williams in the immortal words of Limp Biscuit, don't write checks your ass can't cash. Joining me on the show this week is six PR radio hosts Oliver Peterson and the Australians Darren Davidson. Darren, what were your overall thoughts on the speech and misinformation? Is it the new politics and disinformation the new War.
I think no one would ready disagree with the argument that Kim Williams put forward. The timing is very unfortunate. The ABC appears to have just been caught red handed tampering with video footage to amplify force charges against SAS former SAS platoon leader Heston Russell's so Kim himself in the speech acknowledged that there's not going to investigation into that.
I think the thing that a lot of people would take issue with is the fact that one the ABC has argued that we've drawn the video, but the management has argued that the reporters involved in the story were not actually involved in the doctoring of the footage, which I think is a very hard position to argue given the high personal state those reporters had in the story. They should be across the brief, they should know what's going into the video and be across the editing process
as part of that package that story. And I think the second thing is that Kim and others tend to position all of this as being part of a cultural war, when in fact it's really just shoddy journalism. And you know that goes all the way to the top and people should be held accountable for that. You know, lots of media outlets make a state. It's an unfortunate part of the process from time to time. And the ABC's got a fortunate track record of making a lot of these big, high profile mistakes lately.
And Olie hard to argue with a lot of things in that speech, but you know, the ABC is quite the staff run collective. Does Williams have the opportunity or the ability to actually hold his own organization to the fundamentals that he's talking about.
Well, he's come out of the blocks, hasn't her Carrow since he's been the chair. And you know, as you mentioned before, you can talk the talk, but now he's got to walk the walk with this. And as Darren just said, the timing of this with the Heston Russell example, is just a terrible time for.
Kim Williams to be doing this speech.
But you know what, it sends a shot across the bows all the journalists at the ABC that they have been put on notice. And King has not been backward in coming forward since he's been in the position. He's been talking about the impartiality, the requirements under the charter for what ABC journalists must hear too in their coverage of whatever it is. So look, I think he's obviously ruffling a few fits. He's going to be upsetting a lot of the rank and file, and particularly those journalists
at the ABC who have been there for decades. But he's got a task, he's got a job to do and I think this is probably what a lot of Australia has actually been crying out for in the leadership of the ABC. And obviously he's making changes, he's got a new managing director coming in, He's the news division is on notice. The Heston Russell example, though, it is just beggars belief that this could ever go to air. The fact that stuff came into the lawyers and was
not passed on. What's going on in the process is there, and that the fundamentally the team has been let down, but the buck stops with the producer of the program, the reporter of the program. They're going through a warts and all process through October and it is, yes, embarrassing, but something that we want to hold the higher standards obviously in the Australian Broadcasting Corporation and.
Perhaps something like this happening kind of also sends a bit of a shot across.
The bout to the staff.
Absolutely, because you know, it's framing what his leadership intends to look like so that we don't have issues like this cropping up. So I think while it's unfortunate, it's probably equally a very good example, one example that we wish never happen, a very good example of what happens when you don't hit those notes.
Yeah, it does.
And I think you know, we all operate in this twenty four to seven cycle. We all operate obviously in a social media cycle now as well, where every single thing everybody says he's scrutinized, whether you work in the
commercial or the public media. And I know that, you know, when we get into the Disinformation Bill and the like, it is a minefield for everybody to navigate at the moments, at every particular contributor or stakeholder within our industry, Carrow is under more scrutiny than they probably ever have there.
Absolutely, and speaking of the ABC and not getting it quite right, and this alleged doctored footage Debarker, well, it continues to be the gift that keeps on giving anyway, it turns out the ABC was notified multiple times and not just once, as it has claimed about serious errors in its coverage of this military operation involving Australian soldiers in Afghanistan in twenty twelve, but it failed to address
the problems. And although the ABC has announced there'll be an independent investigation into this incident, David Anderson, the managing director of the ABC, has admitted that their legal team was notified about the issue with this audio, but did not pass on this information to the news team, Darren. David Anderson has made quite the admission here. How much does this affect the ABC's credibility.
It's very bad. It sharp's public trust in public broadcast journalism and the roads audience numbers and underpins the declines they've had, particularly on radio. So it's a really bad result all around them. And ultimately, as you've just noted, Kim and management must take responsibility for this. That story that you mentioned that that was the story that was
broken in The Australian last Monday. It's absolutely extraordinary and I think we eagerly await the outcome of the investigation to this incident and to find out exactly what happened there and why that information, that vital information wasn't passed along the chain.
And Ollie, why do you think so they've announced an investigation, but why make that sort of a mission ahead of the investigation.
What's that about?
Well, I reckon they're trying to get in front of it now because they've been completely embarrassed by it, firstly, Caro. Secondly, they've obviously got a little bit of a predetermined outcome with Alan Sunderland coming back in to do this inquiry and report back by the end of October. We've already identified there is a problem between the legal team and the program team. So why that information was obviously never passed on for a start, that's got to be the
first question that's asked. Heads have got a role though that there's got to be responsibility in this because you know, we are ruining potentially here, and there is obviously before the courts, and there's there's allegations, there's deformation suits. But this is a very very serious charge against As Darren said here, it erodes your trust in public journalism. So if there's doctored footage that's gone to air, the eyes haven't been dotted, the t's haven't been crossed.
Where does that all stem from.
Obviously they're trying to take some heat out of what they're expecting to find by.
The end off tape of the iceberg, something that's already there.
Carrow.
I think we know we'll see sooner rather later what turns up there.
Yeah, I think it will be interesting. Anyway, we'll take a quick break and when we're back how the government's Misinformation Bill will do nothing but start feel legitimate debate. Welcome back, and we are not done on misinformation now. Let's move on to the government's insidious Misinformation Bill and the dismal fact that Albanezi and co. Are only giving Australians one week to make submissions to a Senate inquiry
on this proposed piece of legislation. LMP Senator Matt Canavan didn't miss when he posted the Labor Party is giving people just a week to make submissions on their plans to censor the Australian people. True to form, they're trying to silence people before they even have the powers to do so. Get your submissions in here asap. Submissions close on thirty six of September, So if you do want to have your peace, I politely suggest you get onto it.
In the following days, infectious diseases specialist Nick Coatesworth confirmed that he had made a submission to the inquiry. He posted on x the branding of legitimate debate on COVID as misinformation during both the pandemic and ongoing has provoked me to write a submission to the Senate Committee overseeing the Combating Misinformation and Disinformation Bill. He continued, any.
Thing that's misinformation and disinformation that affects preventive health care or for example, public health or pandemic response. And I just looked at that and thought, Gee, after what we've been through and all the uncertainty about what misinformation and disinformation was, how can we actually have a law that starts to define those sort of things in a way that can be contested in a sort of legal sense.
And if that isn't enough, he also said, let's teach our kids critical thought and how to question and debate, not how to dismiss or reject other's opinions or ideas with random accusations of misinformation. Remember, this bloke is an infectious diseases expert, not a nonpracticing GP, not a paleontologist.
Someone who's a.
Specialist in this area, and it appears someone who's sick to the back teeth of the feel good, budding authoritarian medical hoota suffocating either existing or evolving best practice by throwing around the world misinformation like confetti to silence debate. Ollie, A week feels like a conveniently short period of time.
Yeah, I think it's going to actually bypass most people and not even realize what's.
Happening here, Karen.
I think that a lot of australiay that there are so many issues on the political agenda at the moment, this is one that hasn't quite got the coverage which probably would or get the airtime that it probably would, And I think that this is something that we really need.
Some time to critically think and debate.
Absolutely, you don't want pedled artificial intelligence, fake news and the like. But as Nick Coatsworth says, there, we've got to be able to have open debate. We've got to be able to have critical thought. We can't just be truth telling and be told this is the absolute truth. You've got to be able to have that robust abate.
That's why we live in a democracy. Carrow and I think if there's something that a government of the day doesn't like that's out there and they put the pressure or a government select committee, you know, authority, whether it's act or whoever it is, says that's got to come down the pressure on those sorts of things. I just I think there is so much of a gray area in this which is not being even thoroughly explained to the Australian people right now that this one's just going
to go through when people go hold on what's happened? Why? Why can't we have that? So one week is certainly not enough and.
I feel like the overall impact is a net negative. Darren, have we learned nothing from COVID?
I totally agree that everything that you've said there. I think crossbench senators when the bill reaches the Upper House should proceed with extreme caution. You know, it's not in question that tech monopolies and the big social media platforms
should be subject to Australia's laws and regulations. But this new legislation that's been proposed, it's a powerful censorship tool which can potentially enable governments and vested interest groups the ability to actually exploit and stifle political and public debate. And that's a very very, very dangerous development. And as you've said, I think this is kind of this is kind of flown in under the radar, but it's potentially very very dangerous.
Yeah.
Absolutely, Now moving on, one of my favorite pastimes is watching the left of our itself. Now, you would all be aware of the Robodett Royal Commission, and you may know that journalist and author Rick Morton.
Wrote a book about it.
He titled A Meanstreak, a moral vacuum, a dodgy debt generator, and a multi billion dollar government shakedown. Now, Morton, to his credit, is scathing of everyone involved or connected with Robodet. And whether you agree with the premise of his arguments, that's totally another matter, but it's fair to say no one escapes criticism. Morton is also a senior reporter at the Sat Day Paper, and this week he took a swing at his own masthead for an opinion piece he
described as unethical and a betrayal of actual reporting. The piece in question, well, Chris Wallace, a professor at the University of Canberra and a columnist for the paper, appendant opinion piece defending her longtime friend and former Department of Human Services Secretary Rane Leon regarding her involvement in robodebt Moreton and accusus Wallace of misrepresenting the findings of the Royal Commission, following which Waller said she was happy to
discuss forty years of neoliberal corrosion of the public service over a kuppa. It was incredible to watch.
Ollie.
You might not agree with everything that Rick has said in his book or what.
He said on me.
He's said a lot about the Royal Commission. He's definitely not run cover for anyone.
No, And he's brave, isn't he Like he's very brave to be taking on his own publication. But you know what, I cherdn good on him, Like if that's if that's the the line he wants to take, you want to speak out against his own publication. Again, it's a brave it's a brave mood that I think he's made. But you know, good luck to him. I know he said subsequently had a really bad weekend, he had an ill dog, and that was obviously contributing to where he was personally
when he decided to fire off those tweets. But this is, you know, very interesting when you see.
That play out publicly.
Now, that's the sort of that's the sort of line I might take up internally and not necessarily put it out on social media. Might just have a quiet chat to my content manager or do I you know, radio director, to say, oh, what are.
We doing here? Right?
I think these are sometimes conversations we can take off air carrows so we don't have to have the public meltdown.
Yeah, yeah, it's it's unusual how that doesn't happen probably often as it should. In the premise of Wallace's article though, it was quite something. It was a very interesting position for her to take.
Yeah.
Look, I mean, I don't think which is a great place to take these kind of personal spats with other journalists. I don't think it's a great look in front of the readers, partners and other kind of stakeholders in your paper, And it just doesn't look very professional. And you know, noted that Rick said he had a bad week that were being said. I think, you know, he just looks like he's getting a bit too. The story is far
too personal for him. He is very passionate journalist and he's a very good journalist as well, but it's just not a great look, and I think, you know, he
should just let his journey as did the talking. And you know, the great thing about newspapers is that you know, when they're working really really well, that they have views from both sides and representing lots of different positions across the spectrum, and that that should be fine and he should have confidence in Money's doing that he can be an opposing view even if he doesn't agree with that. So yeah, I think he should just take that offline and hopefully we don't see that again.
Yeah, fair enough. Now, before we finish up tonight, I want to get to your stories of the week.
Ollie.
Let's start with you.
What's yours? It has to be negative gearing, Carrow. I mean, it really does.
How in the world the government thought, with all the issues on the agenda at the moment, they thought it was a good idea to fly the kite on negative gearing and see which way the wind blows. I'm actually just gobsmack sitting here on a Friday night thinking that the Prime.
Minister and the Treasurer thought let's just float it.
Out there for twenty four to forty eight hours and confuse all Australians because I tell you what talk back radio I was.
Going to be lit up in meltdown certainly did fabulous. That does not surprised me.
Darren.
Your story of the.
Week Storry from Caroline Overingturning in The Australian Today, head of the Grand Final tomorrow. It's I know too, you know, brash confidence, swaggering Sydney and other Swaneas before they take on the lines tomorrow. That's not it doesn't make great reading for anyone in Melbourne where I am right now, but it's a it's a fun read and yeah, go the Swaneas.
Beautiful Darren Davidson, Oliver Peterson, thank you so much for your time this evening. That's all we've got time for tonight. The Media Show will be back next Friday at the same time.