Ep. 602: Are Suppressors Good or Bad for Hunters and Hunting?

This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast. You can't predict anything. The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting for el First Light has performance apparel to support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light dot com. F I R S T L I T E dot com. All Right, everybody, I just

Right, Hey blame Jason Bourne. I mean really like that's that's the perception of what those things do to a gun, is that you can just go around and wax people and nobody hears you.

To help us understand, as we have our resident audiologist Grace stirred Evan, who's been on the show a bunch of times, from Auto Pro Auto Pro Autopro to joining us from Mississippi. Grace, is she allowed to say hi right now? Filler? She's not hooked up?

Oh, she's she's hooked up.

Say hi, Grace.

I can say Hi, Hi, thank you. It's an honor to be a resident audiologist.

And I don't care if you say audo pro or auto pro or stirred event or stirred event or.

However you want to say it, got it. I'll be a resident audiologist anytime, calling it all the.

Way from Mississippi. We're also joined by a couple fellas from Silence or Central, Brandon Maddocks and Lucas van Lockin Lacking, Lacking, Ben Lacking, Okay lacking, Steve Oh, the ft up ol Shitters Calendar is out. It's our third in the Fucked Up Old Series, one being deer Stands. I can't remember what year that was. Twenty twenty one, was deer Stands, twenty twenty two, was Fucked Up Old Taxi Dremy twenty twenty four as old Shitters and this is a beautiful

I think it's got to be cleaning stations.

Well, if it is, there needs to be a scratch and sniff component, then you can scratch it and smell the fish cleaning station, which is gonna be like a hard technical thing to figure out. It's available.

Now, why didn't we do that for the old shitters?

Because they smell great, Because it's not gross, it's not people sent us gross photos. We didn't use gross photos. Some photos are so gross I didn't even get to see them. Seth filtered them out. These are great. There's one that's a we talked about it. There's one. It's a it's a western red seedar that's been howled out like the e walks or using it as a shitter. Beautiful like Arctic shitters. Huh, I mean like gorgeous, telling.

You the best of the best.

I can't decide. Last night, I was so fired up about this article that's on the metater dot com that I was gonna read the whole thing, but that would take so long.

Yeah, speaking of governor's tags, these are like backdoor governor's tags. Okay, is that the one you're talking about.

Yeah.

Yeah, So here's the headline. Cala Hans quoted heavily in it case against Idaho man exposes black market for big game tags? Did it? Always? Cals is fair to say you want to take a stab at this? Should I tee it up?

No? Go for it.

In Idaho. No, you go explain what a black Explain how they work, what they call them, and what it is in Idaho.

So I'm gonna say some redundant things here because it's just hard not not to. But it's the I'm already starting LAP land Owner Appreciation Program. LAP LAP is what it is. But I always say, like LAP program, which, how many programs do you need?

When I was in the trades, we would get a per diem and all the guys would say that you get twenty five dollars per diem per day, not knowing that per diem is Latin for per day. And I would point this out.

They're like, no, it means money. It needs lunch money per day. So uh yeah. A lot of states have some form of this, but basically it is an incentive. It's a tool that the state agency has that incentivizes land owners to either allow access or just use best practices like wildlife friendly fencing, habitat, you know, keeping good habitat,

Tag and then the issue it in your name.

Yep, then it's in your name. And in Idaho's case, this tag is not good just for the private property. It's good for the unit. So they're unit wide tags. Now this system gets corrupt and it I don't know this for a fact, but I've been aware of these dealings for so long.

You've mentioned this to me in the past. Oh yeah, before this case came out where it's like, I mean, this is this is like smoking gun shit right here.

This is smoking gun stuff because it's a very high profile case. It's extremely well documented. The officer in this case took things very slowly and got everything you could possibly think of to you know, cross or Teas and daughter Eyse here. So, but the issue is it's illegal to either market the sale of a landowner tag or sell a landowner tag right there. They're not to be

Carl Stuter, Carl stud forty three. Who this guy's out of control. I want this guys out of control.

I want nothing more than to let things settle down. Let this guy get out of the high positions that he's in because he's on several boards, high profile electric boards, and and have just a real good on the record sit down with him because he is kind of you know, hometown dude went to Lineman school. Agg family went to Lineman school, you know, not like an Ivy League school. And the guy's making crazy big bucks sitting on these major electric boards CFO title or CEO titles and stuff

So here's something. The wardens they did a bunch of electronic you know, confiscations on X accounts. Everything he do something from his personal eye call out. He has a folder tags bought for twenty twenty three Ryan Smith ELK Muzzy fifty four fifteen K cash, Williams Elk Archery fifty four forty K cash, Ryan Smith fifty two a ELK rifle and Deer Muzzy ten K check Camus Creek Tags number one cash muzzy deer forty five fifteen K rifle, deer forty five fifteen K rifle, ELK forty five to

Yeah, so he's in illegal possession of wildlife he harvested. Like Montana, for instance, you could legally get more deer tags in the state of Montana if he took advantage of all the opportunities that are out there, then the state actually allows an individual to harvest. So there's actually a cap in Montana of maximum allowable deer you can take, even though you can get legal tags that you pay it for for more. In Idaho, as the same thing.

It says the third one exceeded as beat.

Okay, the third one yeah, so yeah, I mean he was just doing some flat out poaching in there too. You can kind of read into this and just just this guy got onto a tear of throwing consequences out the window or just not karing.

Some of the text exchanges. I found a fifty four muzzle loader tag open September twenty fifth bull elk. I'll take it, can you get it? Fifteen k? Yes, sir done, I'll take it for sure. Perfect will that be for you?

So that's the other interesting thing here. There's like an intent to sell again, so he's setting himself up to be the middleman to then sell these tags at a higher price again. And there's some marketing going on here too, So it's something that's been known. It's hard to really for you know, these game wards are very widely distributed

Jordan Siller's article goes on about a month after stud shot his second elk, he went hunting with his son, who shot an elk but couldn't recover it. Studter's son went home while Studter continued tracking the animal. At eight twenty five pm in October thirty, twenty twenty three, another of Stuter's son's texted his dad to ask whether he'd found the wounded elk. Studter said he couldn't find the original elk, but he quote shot a monster at one

Yep, put him into illegal possession of game.

Then he's in a bunch of trouble too for driving around with a half dead antelope in the back of this truck.

Yeah, that which is just like not condonable, explainable in any any fashion. But he shot an antelope. And you know, the zone that he's in is a real interesting one because a rifle tag in there is extremely hard to get. He's in that the Stanley Basin extremely hard to get. And the landowners up there, there's several that are just like not they're like hunting their preserves, they're not they're not hunting friendly landowners. So getting a land owner tag up there would be real tough.

So he incriminated him off in a text message too. Yeah, big guys showed up seven hundred and sixty yards and wiped him out. But he passed out and woke up in the back of the Tacoma. He's a little bit old for Tacoma. Usually that's young whipper snappers. No, he's probably sitting on the edge forty.

Five Yeah, real man of the people, you know sitting on the edge. Yeah. So yeah, Like I said, Mat, I think he would be a phenomenal like psychological case study for poaching and stuff once things cool down and he can speak for you.

If convicted of all seventeen misdemeanors and all three felonies, faces a potential fine of hundreds of thousands of dollars in over twenty years in prison. That will not happen.

Oh absolutely not.

No.

I mean he can stroke a check, but I think that's never gonna happen. The thing that would make that would sting, right is they do right. This is a he could have stopped a long time ago and still gotten slapped with a hunting suspension, and so he is looking at a lifetime hunting bam, which you know, folks in that tax bracket they just go to New Zealander places where you don't need a hunting license or places that don't have that aren't part of the interstate compact.

But you would think that I would hope that it would sting if he couldn't hunt in the United States of America.

Any real bumber, dude.

You always asked the questions, Yeah, oh, he's an enthusiast, right, it's just like, but.

What he just like, I don't know how much the guy does, But does he just create instead of fish Shack South, he just creates his hunting camp South Africa and just does six months a year over there. And it's like.

Whatever, Sure listen, and that's that's just right.

Yeah, yeah, sure, But there's no way. I mean this this stings. Yeah, I mean this is like embarrassing.

Oh, it's definitely embarrassing. Yeah.

On a recent episode, I was talking about how some names you can just people are loaded, Like when your name's like Von Thurston, like like certain last names attract wealth in disguis.

I wish that was the case.

If it was Von and in a space Von Walking, I'd be like, that's a rich guy.

Yeah, I'd go over all right.

This dude wrote in my name is Mark rich and I'm broke. So I said you. What if your theory worked, why would I not be loaded?

Uh?

One more quick hit we've been having. I've been having this debate with myself about whether uh like I had heard I don't know what it was long ago, I can't remember I heard. I had heard that the insurance companies car insurance companies advocate to reduce deer populations because they get sick of pan out all them, thanks Durkin. Then I said, but then I read somewhere that that's not actually true, and pack Dirkins said, where you read that, it's not true as you read it in my article

Just got to add the bomb and.

Then the money. We'll call uh, he says below us. This is so funny. Okay, he sends us in below is a link to Kentucky Farm Bureau Insurance Priorities go. So here's the web page. I'm on it.

Okay, Oh you can read it.

Well, I'm on it. I'm like it's like, no, yeah, I'm looking at Kentucky Farm Bureau. Big on commitment. Do they spell commitment right? Yeah, big on commitment. And then what it says in black and white or whatever the hell you call it on your computer screen. It says, reduce the wildlife population, just like, no details, just reduce the wildlife population. End of sentence.

Oh no, no, no it's not You're still on the email. This is what it says no under wildlife management on their State Priorities page, which is the state Priority issues for the Kentucky Farm Bureau for twenty twenty four. Under wildlife management, it states seek effective wildlife management that will reduce the wildlife population in an effort to alleviate continued crop in, livestock losses, automobile accidents, human injuries, and loss of life.

So last session less legislative session in Kentucky, there was a bill that came through that would make it law that the board, the fishing game board in Kentucky would be under the jurisdiction of the Agriculture Committee. And yeah, and this line right here was like a huge, huge talking point. So Kentucky BHA and the Kentucky chapter of Safari Club International actually got together formed a basically like a lobbying group and just hammered the legislature over this the whole time to.

Using that statement as evidence of objective.

Yes, to say, hey, if the egg Committee is going to run fishing game, we're gonna probably have some conflict in the future. Yeah, and the build in pass it was a big, big win.

Hmm.

Yeah, thanks coming down day, Cal. And here's an interesting one out of New York New York's meat transportation laws. I live in western New York near the Pennsylvania border. Myself and many others hunt both New York and PA. New York recently changed their laws to which now you are only allowed to transport d boned meat into the state, but a cleaned listen to this detail, A cleaned skull cap is allowed. It used to be you couldn't try transport the spinal column in brain matter. He says. I

Do you feel like he broke that law not knowing?

I don't think I knew that. And I'll tell you what that was a case of Michigan. You would even go out on opening day because thirty minutes into the season you get a sink and feeling, wow, I had no idea.

That's funny.

You had to wait till actual sunrise. That's the best thirty minutes of the best. Well, when you take the morning of the night, that's the best sixty minutes.

That's how you feel hunting ducks, Yeah, same feeling.

Yeah, go hunting on the reservation. That's their their.

Laws to he. He appreciates it did that. He appreciates they lowered the age to start big game hunting because he has three kids and likes to spend time with the mount hunting. He likes the mandatory hunter orange. Now in fire season, he find firearm season, he's shocked that it wasn't He's shocked that that wasn't written in the law. And he likes the process of doing electronic licensing and not needing to wear a backtack. He's what he's doing.

I lose a little patience with the hunters, saying like, well, it's too much of a pain in the ass. You what ninety nine percent of people on this planet think is too much of a pain in the ass getting up at three point thirty four in the morning, getting a bunch of crap together, going out in the woods, sitting there till light finally pops up, freezing your butt off, God forbid you get something. Then the real pain in the ass starts, you know, I mean, come on.

Oh, like when you factor all that out and then there's this other little additive thing.

Yeah you could like now you can just hop online and have your groceries delivered to your front door.

Yeah right. Comparatively with my little analogy about the pandemic, I'll also point out there were people that obviously got high on power. They got high on power, but there were a lot of people that were just trying to find a way to be helpful and solve the problem, and they didn't get everything right. And you know, down the road, we'll look back and be like, Ah, that probably didn't really have any real impact on CWD spread, but that sure did. Right, It'll be like that, yep.

I mean when we do like that Frank Church trip, like we boil skulls because of the law. I like, traveling across state lines, We'll bring in another little burner and a pot and boil skulls. They're on the air strip, you know. I mean, I do that, But then I literally take the lymph nodes in a little baggy mm hmm and fly those out, oh to submit them, drive them to the place, drop them in the thing. You know.

Okay, you ready to dig in?

You ready, Grace, Oh, I'm ready.

Okay, give it. Give us your spiel on how you how when you shoot guns, your your your what. I don't know where to start. You can start with why when when someone touches one off next to your head and the duck blind? Why do you hear for a couple of days?

Okay, I can start there when you told me just to jump in, I'm going where because they're there is so much to talk about. But that's a good starting point. So what is happening when you blast yourself or when you find yourself in the wrong place at the split second of the wrong time and then your ears are screaming? Well,

Sometimes they can even.

Be ejected from the membrane in which they sit. So depending on how loud that blast is and when those hair cells are bent over, there's a metabolic process.

Where they're trying to recover.

Same way when you fatigue your muscles and you recover, you know you're not going to run a marathon two days in a row. I mean, when you're blasting these things over and over, you're weakening them every time.

So that damage is cumulative over a lifetime.

And so when those are lying down and the brain is missing that signal because during that time that they're trying to recover, they're not transducing sound. That's when your brain makes you hear instead of the sounds around you. So does that is that coherent?

Yeah?

And I have tonight as Yeah, and you I had this problem. When someone explains a health problem to me that they're having, I start feeling their health problem. Like if say, yeah, I have, you know, like a lump on my testicle, I'd be like, oh my god, I have a serious groin ache. All of a sudden, as you're talking, I'm getting more tonightis noue. Oh my god, I can hear it too, and.

It's Tenadus is an area that is fascinating because it's hard to pinpoint. There's no cure, but there are management strategies. And at first, when you first hear these strategies, it's gonna sound a little bit like mumbo jumbo, yeah, yeah, whatever. But honestly, because our cortisol levels, our stress levels, salt, caffeine can all affect the chemical gating s stum that's working hard to suppress that ringing.

And when your frontal lobe is focused on.

Something else, that's why I tell people, as simple as it is, try not to focus on the ringing or else.

It will sound louder. When you can distract your frontal.

Lobe and focus on something else with your brain, then you can put it into the background.

I might have accidentally hit on a thing that you might recommend, and I'll explain. In starting my kids shooting, my young kids shooting, I have a nine year old, eleven year old, and fourteen year old, and starting them shooting big game rifles. I started them out shooting like like they have sig crosses in a six or five creed More And I start them out shooting a suppressor and hearing protection because they can like they conflate the kick with the sound. It's all they're not distinct things.

Right, And so I wanted to red will reduce the felt recoil.

Yes, So I put a suppressor on, I put hearing protection on them. They lay down and shoot, and when they shoot, they laugh the same way like they you laugh getting off. They laugh because they were so like you know, then they shoot.

You're like, ah, I don't know, it's like that, right, Yeah, but well you've actually hit on what I mean, spoiler alert. My do you remember when I first came to see you guys, and I talked about how, you know, my job is an audiologist and someone who values the hunting tradition is to equip you with the most realistic tools

To double up.

God, that's kind of interested to hear.

What the Silencer Central guys have to say about that theory. It goes against some of the stuff I'm reading on their website and all other websites for suppressors. But looking at the data and all of the variables, which I'm happy I would love to get into the nitty gritty of that.

That's what I'm seeing.

That you're recommending that ear recommending both. Yes, well that's what I that's what I'm saying. I accidentally hit on.

Yeah, that is what you can do it.

I'm both dead like to deaden my kids to the to the experience, right, which is very well.

And remember, let me umbrella this whole conversation with the fact that we cannot rely on our perception of how loud something is to objectively determine whether it's too loud. Just because your ears don't ring, just because it doesn't bother you, does not mean that that sound pressure was not objectively damaging the physical strung pictures of your ear and your hearing ability.

Got it, Brandon, you want to jump in here?

Yeah, boys should put us on the spot, right.

No, I think we're on the same page. Yes, Brandon, you want to get your Do you want to quiet stuff down? Yeah?

No?

Absolutely?

Yeah, no, Yes, I am pro suppressor. I am pro silencer central. I was impressed by some of the studies that you yourself have done to try to test the different levels and to be able to put out good information. I have some questions about some of those measurements, but not in a way that's trying to be critical, just in a way that's digging in to get to the bottom of it.

Yeah.

Absolutely. So, you know, the threshold that we look at, it's like one hundred and forty decibels, and what we're told is we want our products to test below one hundred and forty right out one hundred and forty or less than. But of course it's hard to tell what the environment is. You know, if you're indoors, obviously it's louder. You know, we could show it our measures are, but someone could have different atmospheric pressures, you could have shorter barrels,

When you talk about the when you talk about the situation being different, I mean, I'm just like inviting listeners to picture this. If you're shooting in a ten mile an hour cross wind, it's less loud, right. If you're shooting, you know, not that I would have any experience with this. If you're shooting out of your truck, if you're over in the driver's seat, shooting out the passenger window, it's loud.

Oh yeah, totally, totally.

Or if just that wind is blowing from your muzzle to you yep.

Man, I think like a big moment for us Steve and I. I shot him out and go it with Steve. And that gun was a muzzle break. It wasn't suppressed this couple of years ago, and we were under a tree right there, were still ready And I have never felt like just because the environment, that tree right over top of us, and that's right next to the bark, it smoked us.

Man, it styled my hair like.

It changed everything about the way that I've hunted since. Right in suppressors and when you think of it, hearing pro like that was a bad environment for sound.

Yeah, and in South Dakota could be a split leading because prairie there, when you shoot, it's not as loud, whereas if you're an environment where you can echo, like you're saying, it's always gonna be louder.

Can you explain the CA You explain the Hearing Protection Act, sure, like where it sits and where it came from.

And yeah, sure, so Hearing Protection Act basically the premise there is that it would deregulate suppressor silencers completely and make them a regular firearm. So you would go and buy a silencer and at a regular you know, gun store, and they would treat it just like a regular long gun or handgun. You would just do a background check and you'd leave with it. So there would be no or tax stamp, no process. It's kind of you know,

Because currently there regulated like can you I guess within this explanation, can you explain what is the difference between who regulates guns, like who regulates long rifles and who regulates the suppressors that go on long rifles.

Sure, yep, so both underneath atf so they have sort of the domain over that. Some states will have different state laws, but there's not many states that have low specific to siglencers. Most states honestly don't even define them as a firearm. But at the National Farms Branch NFA branch is what regulates the actual suppressors. It's the same process you go through and you buy a machine gun.

But they were around back then.

Yes, yes, you could buy them before or without the you know, the regulatory process. I mean you know, you see the maximum advertisements and the magazines whe you could buy it and get it in the mail, and you still see them floating around occasionally. But yeah, before nineteen

Got it, and the Hearing Protection Act is not never got passed, correct.

I think a lot of people thought that it had a potential possibility when Trump first got elected, so it's sort of stealed the mark a little bit. We have two lobbyists, federal lobbyists in DC, and their feedback to me is that it would take six years of a Republican president, Republican Senate, and a Republican House to approve the Hairy Protection Act because they would have to educate

Yeah, for sure, has there been have you seen any? Are you aware of any? Has they would looked at like crime? Do you know? I mean, is there evidence of that that there's a disproportionate number of suppressors turning up in criminal activity.

You know, good questions. So right before Trump got in, uh, there was a member at the ATF pretty high up that sort of sent a letter out that said, we'd be willing to work with you the Trump administration once he was elected to deregulate them, and that's what kind of fueled the whole Hearing Protection Act. But ATF admitted at that point, you know, twenty seventeen ish that they're

There really now?

Yeah?

And how many states are you allowed to hunt with them?

So suppressors themselves are legal for ownership in forty two states. You can hunt with them in forty one states. So not many people talk about hunting in Connecticut, so that's probably not a big miss.

So that's one of them.

That's the only state you can't hunt on them with them.

Oh you mean where you can have it but not hunt with it. Correct, there's only one state you can have it but not hunt with it.

Correct.

But forty one states you can hunt with it. Yeah, Oh, I didn't know. Is that widespread? Oh yeah, numbers really growing.

Yes, leaf that you can't Connecticut, No, but that you can't.

Own eight states?

Yeah, you're right, So California, Illinois, Delaware, Rhode Island, New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts.

All those conservative bastions.

Yeah, and then he said Hawaii.

God, do you think Delaware, Rhode Island, and mass would be big proponents of suppressors.

Since that's the background of the American firearms industry.

Well, there's that, but just like the urban deer situation, the awareness of limes disease, like they're doing pretty heavy white tail suppression in those states, and and just that a density of humans.

Yeah, no, that's a good point.

It's like a good neighbor thing.

Yeah, yeah, you know, we should there's so many things that are piled up here that we need to talk about. Let's explain one thing. You know, I'm gonna fill this one to our resident gun nut gear head, Garrett. Sonic crack muzzle blast. You want to run with that one, That's.

A good one to cover because it's the.

Right Yeah, well, I mean, and I think I think actually Brandon would be the best one to run with it. But my best example of the two, of the difference of the two is shooting a three hundred blackout right, so they make like sub and supersonic rounds that that gun, that cartridge was like created around being able to shoot sub sonic ammunition. So two hundred and twenty grains is just coming right out under right underneath that that speedest sound,

I'm happy to jump in on that.

Crack.

Oh, there's two Okay, Grace, you're gonna get to go. But I'm just trying to Here's what I'm trying to set up. I wasn't too clear. There's there's two noises happening. Let's stay out of subsonic. Okay, all right, back up, Slow down, general, honey, like your your grandpa's deer rifle. There's two noises. There's the powder exploding, and then there's it being faster than the speed of sound and breaking the sound barrier. M hm, Grace, you have something to say on.

This, absolutely, and so that's important what you're actually seeing. And I hate that this isn't totally video. But there's the spectrograph of it. You have when when when when a when ammunition breaks the sound barrier, which is heavily dependent upon temperature. So when it's faster than eleven hundred feet per second at sixty eight degrees fahrenheit, you're.

Going to get an ND shaped sound.

Wave on a spectrograph just a few milliseconds before the blast from the gun happens, and that what we call an in wave or that sonic crack can reach up to one hundred and fifty to one hundred and seventy decibels and it cannot be suppressed by a suppressor.

That's what I'm trying to tea up is the whole myth of the Jason Board is part of the thing with like people looking at like, oh, suppressors would just mean you could walk around a house and like shoot everybody in the house and there's no noise for neighbors, cops, other people in the house or whatever. This sort of myth is you're ruling out that there's additional noise occurring when a firearm is shot.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to get at by saying subs and soupers, because then when you shoot a sub sonic, that is truly where you actually do get the like with Jason Bourne.

Like it's so quiet, we'll shoot I'll take my wife and kids and we'll shoot a twenty two one of those taxol like Semiauto twenty twos. With a suppressor and subsonics, the only noise you hear at the gun is you hear at the slide, and I'm not joking. You hear the beer can crinkle, yep. When you shoot, the main noise is the aluminum crinkling yep. That's quiet, yep. But normally, like if I'm shooting my three hundred wind bag suppressed and someone's off one hundred yards away, they're very aware.

You know, you're not getting rid of the sonic boom.

Yeah.

My brother described it in Wisconsin when my daughter shot at a deer last year. He said that he felt like he was just hunting nearby, you know, sitting on a stand, and he felt like he could actually hear the bullet traveling more than he ever had, Like, was he heard this that as it moved through the forest or whatever where normally it was probably muffled by the blast. But he's like he was just like it was crazy

I'm just stumbling across a sentence in this piece about the Hearing Protection Act. No one should have to sacrifice their hearing because they choose to exercise their Second Amendment rights. And it's about the Hearing Protection Act. Kriin, did we do our thing, because here's the story. I think I told this story before we started recording today. Yanni and I were talking about this. Maybe how many years ago we were in Kentucky. M hm, I don't know, eight, eight, nine, ten,

Yeah, So everyone I asked directly had to get approval, so they anticipated in the anonymous policy.

Okay, we justle the whole thing out there.

No, no, no, And so everyone most everyone came back to me with a no. So then I asked colleagues, and Brent Reeve has a friend Joe Alexander, thank you so much. He reached out on my behalf to dozens of his game warden buddies, and I think it was kind of a collective effort of wardens from across different states, and he put together this bargraph.

Can I read it?

So that's what you have, and then you have a you know, he did like a kind of opinion poll as well.

But they know and they agreed that this there what they said would be part of this.

Yeah, okay, yeah. So here's the game Wharton poll that Krinn assembled for us on a scale. Here's the how it expressed them. I think I wrote this sentence, and now that I'm looking at it, I made it maybe a little bit difficult.

I'm glad you see that too, because I've read it like ten times. I'm like, I don't know what he means. It's like, this is it.

This feels like a text message between this is this is sort of the essence of me and Krin's text messages. I think it was, like I said, on a scale from one to ten, it's it's very hyperbolic. I say, on a scale from one to ten, with one being the worst thing for wildlife ever and ten being no difference to your ability to do your job? What would your number be? That got's a terrible sentence. We're asking them to say, in terms of from a game warton's perspective,

They're the ones using Facebook readily because they.

Don't need because they got Facebook. They just look for something and that were like, that's not right. Why is this guy got a big buck in July? It looks like why is this guy posted six different bucks in the middle of the night and his T shirt or a beard exe to him?

It looks like twenty six out of the twenty nine gave it a five or higher.

There you go, that's a good way of putting it. You should go on the polling Yeah, some anonymous comments game ward number one. I would have to say nine hardly affects the way I do my job. Just like a knife, suppressors are a tool. In the hands of a chef, a knife helps a chef create a fine meal. In the hands of an unsavory criminal, a knife could be a dangerous weapon used for illegal things. The same

Who's Joe, He's the guy that did the work.

Oh, bread of the work. Oh I'm sorry, thanks Joe, Thanks for doing that. Krinn that put to ease my that put that to anyonet have any comments on that?

You know we all know Eric Crawford, former l e O Wildlife l EO over there in Idaho. I was just hanging out with him earlier in the week, and I had i'd either told him that I finally have a suppressor showing up at the house or his comment, but he was like, oh, you guys and your suppressors. I was like, well, go on, tell me, tell me more, and he didn't really just didn't have a good, good comment,

You know.

You hear a shot ring out over this giant forest and you're like, Okay, I can go look for vehicles on the side of the road, but maybe that person got dropped off. I could go charging into the woods by myself a somebody who's obviously armed, you know. Yeah.

A game warden said there are certain situations that it would make it more difficult to hear a shot, but you would need to be out of your vehicle listening for a shot. Another game warden, I'm a firm believer in using suppressors for hearing protection, but there's no denying that they make our job harder at times. Another game warden, in my opinion, the use of suppressors has not changed anything about how I do my job. The sound of

I have a question because some of the game wardens responded saying or looking at suppressors in their relationship to fair Chase and if hunters are if we hunters are getting critters used to you know, the sound versus not and oft impacts fair Chase or not. And there's also a lot of pointing to thermal vision as being worse than.

One guy goes on to say thermal with a suppressor makes it very difficult to catch bad guys. Another guy he doesn't says, I don't catch him in the act anyways, My investigations are usually after the fact. Gunshots aren't the primary sign I'm looking for or listening when I'm patrolling.

Lots of comments do you feel like gett infringes on fair Chase?

Again, like like to do that, I'd I'd have to take this approach. If guns just happen to not be loud, let's just say we'll go back in history and somehow through like like the earth was designed differently and and physics were different and guns weren't loud. Would there ever be a conversation in which someone was trying to mandate or regulate that we make them louder. It's just they happen to be loud. Do you know what I'm saying. There's no one ever pointed out like a need to

The argument is is that the critters that we've been now hunting for whatever one hundred years modern firearms are accustomed to hearing a gunshot and being scared and fleeing ki.

Those band bohun or you know what, when you shoot your boat, you gotta then hit a button that makes a loud noise.

Okay, that's not fair, Chase, that's not You're not that's not oranges to oranges thirty yards away with a bow unless you're using subsonic ammunition and and you know doing that thing.

I think the animal's range of hearing is so acute that you know that that noise is going to get picked up no matter what.

And you've already shot.

That's the thing.

It's like, it's it's a hard fare chase argument when you've already shot. Like it didn't help you. Thermal is a good argument for it, right, Like that helped me find the animal and then shoot.

It, help me find it at night off a road or during the day.

Yeah, but he hasn't even normally you'd also have to do this when a deer gets hit, the noise hasn't gotten there anyways. I just think it is way ahead of the noise all the times.

It's I've.

And have that deer or elk hall ass right at me, right because they heard the impact of the bullet behind him and then turn.

I'm explaining Devil's advocate this because I'm certainly you know, I'm big pro shooting the suppressed a year round. I don't think that it I don't really think that it's going to make a difference every critter I've shot, like you're saying, they still hear something and the herd's still scattering even when I've used, you know, a suppressed rifle.

They're seeing it for yeah, and they.

Start feeding again. So if you're going to take that argument, I would say, instead of taking away suppressors, take away the ability to shoot past four hundred yards because at that point, I think, yeah, because I with like a three forty weather be I had a guy shooting at an elk one time at roughly six six and a half and the conditions all together were enough that there was a hurt of bulls, and this hurt of bulls were not afraid of these the sound that they were

No, I appreciate the Devil's advocacy. He needs to be advocated for.

No, it's it's an argument worth having.

Yeah, And I was just watching a documentary. Karin's gonna ask me later if we can cut this out, and I'm gonna say no. I was just watching a documentary of the guy that in the military that had to defend Khalid shake Muhammad, the mastermind of the nine to eleven terror tacks in the Military Commission, and how he got into the mental state to approach that job. So Devil's Advocate, thank you, yiannih.

I mean our conversation take care.

In a way, our conversation is antiquated. It's antiquated because we're having a conversation from ten years ago, as evidenced by the fact that forty one states have said okay, we give forty one states have said okay. We've heard from all the interested parties, and in the end we decided this is okay. But it remains a thing of like you know, I just got this thing the other day from the University of Texas. They found that better looking people live longer and that has to do with jobs, right,

Yeah, Yeah, it's just evolved that way since the thirties.

And where does the situation sit nowt Like can you lay out a little bit like what it used to be the first time I got one, it sat at the gun shop. The first time I got one, it sat at bob Wards for fourteen months. Yeah, before I was able to come get it. Right, where are we Why was that? And where are we at now?

Yeah? Good question. So yeah, when I first started, you know, I've been doing it twenty years. When I first started, it was really quick because no one was buying them.

Oh, just is that right?

Yeah, it was like two weeks. I mean it's people like I always say when I first started with two weeks.

You're like, how's that on twenty years ago? Two weeks?

Yeah, just because no one was buying them. There was just there was no volume. It was easy for them to approve them because there was really no volume. So really the reason why they got behind was just sheer volume. And really the NFA branch is like other government agencies where they don't get the funding that they need to be able to process them. They weren't getting the head count, they were getting the technology. They just they probably weren't getting the best employees.

Oh there's no deliberate delay.

No, No, it's a one hundred percent volume.

It was a fourteen month wait for someone to pull that file.

Well I should, So they did studies and they were touching it like a hundred times. I mean, just like one hundred percent inefficient, just you know, send it to Bob, send it to Jane, then Frank. It just kind of went around this sort of you know path. But you know, I've seen it go as high as I saw get up was about you know, that year and a half two years after Obama changed some rules. He tried to take it where it was harder to get it to

No, yeah, the individual I'm serious.

I yeah, because I say that. You know, if God himself had come down and said, Brandon, what would you like approval times to be, I'd be like, I would be happy with thirty days, sir, But to have like real time? Who would have ever thought of that?

Right, Yeah, because you can go get the damn gun real time.

Yes, Yes, So it's uh, it's really changed everything. I mean, it's it's doubled our demand.

Uh.

I mean people like there was like this sort of psychological I gotta pay for it. I'm not going to see it for a year, and then it got to me ten months, and then it was nine months, and it's sort of you know, oscillated. But now that in some cases it's literally real time. So seventy one percent of every one of them we submit is instant approval. What Yeah, because what they do is they just do your background check and if you pass it, you're automatically approved.

So I just have I haven't done I haven't done one in probably be ten eleven months or something like that. Yeah, haven't picked one up in probably a year.

Yeah, so it I mean it's pretty amazing. So the twenty nine percent that aren't getting approved real time, they've been arrested before, so they have to look and figure out what you were arrested for. Got it And there's a fellon into your state that's got the same name, so they have to make sure you're not them. So that's where it creates a little bit longer wait, and the FBI has to manually review it and that can take, you know, a couple months.

So Joe Smith has a little harder time than.

You're exactly right, that's one hundred percent correct. I used to could tell peop why their name probably how long they would have to wait if they would tell me whether they've ever been arrested before?

Oh yeah, yeah, like that dude that wrote in about how he's not rich Mark Rich. Yeah, there's probably some dude that did something bad name Mark Rich because true is a common name.

Yes, very much.

So what is the process? Uh, you know there's like a fingerprinting component. How's all that work?

Yeah?

Good question. So remember it all started in thirty four, so it's a little antiquated. But the best way I could think to explain a silence or purchase is it's a title transfer. So it's almost buying a truck. So the title to that silencer is in our name at Silence or Central, And in simplest terms, we're asking the ATF to transfer it from us to you, so for them to approve that they want fingerprints, which we do know.

Oh, it doesn't have to go through So.

Fortunately, siglences are centralized locations in all forty two states where silencers are legal. So we manage all the paperwork on the front end, and so Fall South Dakota our home base is, and then we manage it on the back end for whichever state you live in. So if you live in Montana, once it's approved, it's shipped from Montana directly to your front door. Yeah, that's good.

Where does the little interview that I do every time. Oh sure, yeah, how does that come into play? Why is that necessary?

Good question? So essentially we're filling out the paperwork for you asilence. Their central is based on the information you give us. ATF wants you to verify that the information we filled out for you is accurate.

That's it, yep.

So it's a good check step for us. I mean we do find that people love that. I mean we usually send you a review right after that because we get you know, one hundred percent five stars like that was a great That was a great process because essentially we're just saying, hey, did we get your last name right? Did we get your first name right? Are we correct? And you said you're not a fella? You know, here's the dress, here's the state you live in. Just a quick check it gives ATF. So we had to work

It's yeah, and it's quick. I mean if you as the consumer have your shit together, which means I think I can't remember now what they call it, some kind of identification number you need to have on his end and then one other.

Yeah. So basically the ATF, you're signing those documents digitally saying that what we entered with you was correct.

Yeah.

So the ATF has you sign up for that on their website. And how they determined you are who you say you are is through like, uh, you know data, that's your financial data. You know which address did you live at, what was your car payment for the you know first vehicle you bought, you know that kind of stuff. That's your digital signature. So essentially they'll give you a pen an a user name which you can't tell us, so you'll enter it in on the computer system. That's

Yeah, if I come prepared, it takes like five minutes. And if I'm not quite prepared, then they kind of talk me through it like well go to here, Yeah, go to here, find this, and then it takes maybe ten or fifteen. Yeah, it's pretty pretty easy.

Yeah, it's super turnkey.

I want to talk about some of the other rules you need to have these used tube. Do you still need to have paperwork with you when you have your suppressor with you, you know, the way you have it on your phone.

Yeah, phone's fine. So if you read the statute, it just says that you present in a reasonable period of time. So if what's interesting is that's actually a tax return, that's when a dollar tax goes to the Treasury, So the only people that can actually request it and actually get it would be a person would like say, the irs, or someone on the criminal side with ATF. So there's

But you would recommend photo a photo of that tax form. Yes, yes, weird, it's a tax form.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's got a little stamp on it.

You're right, exactly, yep, so yep. They just they say able to present in a reasonable period of time. So yeah, if you have it digitally on your phone, you're one hundred percent fine, or you could call us and we can email it to you.

Now, okay, I'm out with my kids, yes, and they're with me with me, yep, okay. And it's it's firearms that like I own, you know, but it's the guns I use for my kids. I have my suppressors on the guns. I'm standing next to them. I'm cool.

Yeah, one hundred percent. So ATF told me as long as you can still see the person you're with, they can be in possession of the silence or even if their name isn't on the paperwork, because you haven't truly lost possession if you can still see them.

Okay, yeah, all right, So we go out and I lend my buddy, or my buddy comes over my house in the morning wants to borrow my rifle and I'm like, oh, yeah, I take the suppressor. That ain't a good idea, right, so.

You know, we give away free gun trust anyone that buys a silence or from Silence or central. So if you haven't a trust a stroke of a pen, you can add them to your trust and then as long as they're eighteen or older and also not a prohibited person, they could take the suppressor right.

There, but it's not there. It's not like becoming their property still.

So think of it as when we do it to a trust, that title transfer goes from us. Silence are central to that trust, and the trust technically owns it. So when you add them to that trust, it almost be like adding someone to your LLC. They're now kind of a co owner of that trust, so yeah, they can use it. What's interesting about adding someone to a trust after you buy it, you don't have to submit anything to the ATF. There's no background check, there's no hey we got to send us to ATF. It's very

But you can also get it where you can. Also, I know I have a trust, but if you there's kind of no reason to do it.

Trust right, That's what I think, because the benefit of the trust is you can share it with that scenario you just said, but also you get to pick who gets it when you pass away. So hopefully your kids say, hey, i'd like to keep that, dad, So you put them down as a beneficiary, and then once you pass away, they keep it.

I remember the first one I got years ago. I remember needing to tell my wife. I'm like, this will probably not You're probably never gonna remember this conversation. But I gather if I was to all sudden croak, you're supposed to like call the ATF or something to come get the suppressor or some garbage like that. Well, so if you own it, it is not gonna happen, right totally.

It could be low on the priority list, right totally.

So if you own it as an individual, they else, They do have a form that your spouse can fill out and it's free. I always say you get one tax free transfer, but it's when do you die? Okay, and then you can transfer it to someone else. So it's this kind of the same paperwork we do to transfer it to you, your spouse could do that paperwork to someone else and as long as they're in the same state and they don't have to pay the twohundred bucks. Oh okay, yeah, but that's if it's as an individual.

So the garver and doesn't need to come and like seize it when they die. No, no, it's good. Yeah.

Well can you explain when you say, with a stroke of a pen, you can add somebody to your trust. Yeah, So I go to Steve's house and he's like, here's a gun. What's the supress around? And I'm like, oh, I'm on your trust. What is like the actual process to get added to Steve's trust?

Yeah, So if you called silence essential, we would just send you a form and it's pretty much plug and play. It would just say what's the name of your trust, which we would tell you. I'd want to know what data was created, which is on the trust, and then he would have to sign it since he's ahead of the trust, so it'd make you a co trustee. So essentially then you could use it.

Probably three times in the last four months I've had the conversation with somebody be like, hey, if you need a suppressor, get one right now, because they're getting approved super fast. But they're all individual trusts. Yeah yeah, right, or or sorry, individual versus trust.

Yeah. So typically individual is a little bit quicker because then ATF doesn't have to read the trust. But we're seeing the trust every day getting quicker. So the goal is eventually it'll be closer. I think as ATF is doing pretty much real time on individuals and their hopes to get it out of the less than a month. If you bought it through a trust.

Okay, and that individual though, that one is like just you. It's just you. It's in your possession, yep.

Just in your name. But you can change that. So if someone calls and says, hey, I bought it as an individual, I want to put it in a trust, so we could do it for you. It's the same paperwork, but you don't lose possession of the item. So but you do have to pay that tax stamp again, oh, changing the title of ownership from yourself to the trust. But some guys are doing that because they want to get it quick. So I got a hunting trip coming up.

Oddly enough, I wish Chester was here right now because he could tell you this is all I would say, roughly a thousand times easier than registering a boat trailer in Montana.

It seems to me that without I guess like the trends going in the right direction, without them just saying listen, it's just it's just like a gun. You can go buy it and walk out the door of it.

Totally.

They're alleviating a lot of the pain points. But what's up with the what's up with the tax? And why isn't there an equivalent when you buy a pistol or a long rifle or a shotgun.

Yeah, so you know that tax again was created for the machine guns and then silence has kind of got thrown into the process after the fact. You know, there is that Pittman Robertson tax on handguns or ammo, but we don't really see it because it's paid by the manufaction. Yeah, it's baked in, so it's yeah, it's I think it's some of them are ten, some of them are eleven.

Cool.

Yeah, and so the sort of the other behind the scenes is we feel like as more states, so we talked about states like potentially making them illegal in the future. We feel like if because it was so simple math, right, there'll be a million siguncers approved this year two hundred dollars each. That's two hundred million. That's a lot of money to go to conservation, and a lot of that

You know.

It's a kind of an odd little irony is that some of these states that they haven't made it legal are some of the states we would regard as the biggest sort of like what you call a nanny state. Yeah, totally, meaning when you buy like some fishing sinkers in California, right, it comes with like the death message about you know, all the bad things that come from fish and anchors, and they take so many steps, you know, like the states where you can't bump your own gas or whatever.

I like that.

It's perfect because.

It's a much bigger public health concern for noise exposure than for safety when you look at the crime statistics.

Just like you guys were talking about earlier.

I mean, what we need to save people from is the long term health impact of the hearing loss that comes as a result from guns without suppressors.

Yeah, or blowing your own kids ear drums out, which I've done a couple of times.

Yeah, Well, you know it's and I mean I don't want to derail the conversation here, but I also want to just point out a number of people that I talked to in preparation for this told me that they love suppressors, especially for their kids, because their kids aren't as afraid of the recoil. But these people are seeing some of the vernacular on the websites and in the marketing that says that with a suppressor they're hearing safe and you don't need hearing protection, when that's.

Just not true.

In fact, it's one hundred and forty dbpsbl that's considered the limit for safe impulse sound for an adult, but it's one twenty for a kid, and that's a very different measure. And if you guys want to get into the logarithmic scale and how every three dB increase is a doubling of sound pressure at your ear drum, we can get into that. But I just want to that it's a huge safety issue when you're talking about sounds that are that loud.

So it's not either or in my opinion, it's both.

And no, I got you. I got you, And and I feel like I'm trying to think of how I do it myself. I feel like I've not put any hearing protection in shooting my rifle when you're shooting your suppressor, Garrett, do you do any hearing protection.

At the range? I?

Do you do?

Yeah?

Because like if you're jamming fifty sixty rounds, it's still gonna get to you. Like or if I'm competing with a suppressor, I'll throw throw hearing pro in. It's usually it's not over ears, right, It'll just be like which is a lot more convenient. It'll either be just foamys or like an in ear.

Honey, I'm gonna challenge you a little bit because when you say it doesn't get to you, what are you facing that on?

I said, it does get to me.

Oh I thought you said, Yo, if I shoot.

Like fifty or sixty rounds, it still does get to me.

But you're saying that. Grace is saying a lot's happening before it gets to you.

Oh yeah, yeah, No, I'm tracking. But I think I think like where it's been a huge game changer. And Grace and I talked about this, like I think the first time you came to Meteor, She's like, the reality with hearing protection is people don't wear it right hunting honting, right, So like we're going up the mountain. Oh there's an elk. Hold On a second, I'm gonna throw in my hearing pro. You've done it like twice in your life, don't well.

And I think that the reason why people don't wear it is what ODO pro has been on a crusade to evangelize, which is that these don't have to be phonies that are uncomfortable and fall out and block everything. You know, we can preserve your localization ability and your ability to carry on conversation and even to be able to hear game at an advantage at a farther distance of our electronic options that are on the market.

So you know that's not a valid excuse anymore.

But when I'm looking at the stats and the data from the very best studies, some that are done by medical personnel for the military, other studies that have been done by silencer companies, and you're looking at all of these numbers with the goal of getting things to an average peak SPL of one hundred and forty so that

Brandon, do you want to talk about that a little bit about how the.

First time when you shoot a gun suppressed, it's going to be significantly louder, you.

Know, And just to clarify our testing experts here, but you know, I think it's based on design. So years ago, a lot of people would make like a monolithic silencer where it was basically one baffle inside, and those did have a louder pop because the air was colder and you had to actually heat it up. And I used to always kind of be against that because I'm like, why would you want in a hunting scenario your first shot to be the loudest. So that's why we we

I mean, I think all suppressors have some some first round pop, but it just really depends on the design to see how much do they have. You know, there's you know, when that suppressor is cold, there's oxygen in there, and then you fire that first round. That purnt unburnt gunpowder is what's exploding and creating that that noise. Then when it's really heated up, but you're firing multiple times.

But explain it just a little bit more, because I still think, like everybody's understanding, there's there's oxygen in the in the suppressor at the end of the gun, but now you've introduced unburned gunpowder, So really explain exactly what's going on that's making it louder than the next shot.

Yeah, so that that unburnt gunpowder as it exits the end of the barrel, there enters that first chamber of the firearm. Where there's the most volume of air and oxygen, and so that's where where it ignites, and and you'll you'll get that loud sound from.

Why does that go away on the second shot?

Because once that that's expelled, it almost creates a vacuum within the suppressor as that bullet exits and and the air flows through, and it expels all of that additional oxygen and air, and it's also heated up at that point in time. So if you do multiple shots in a row, you won't necessarily see that. It'll get pretty consistent. But if you then let the suppressor cool down, or you leave your action open and let airflow through it, you might see that again as you shoot again.

Got it? I wanna, I want to do a thing here, and I wanna I want to a little bit clarify what we're hearing from Grace and and and be clear. Uh, Grace, it's fair to say that from your perspective as a as an audiologist and a hearing protection evangelists and someone that like like you, like prescribe hearing aids and check people's hearing and all that kind of stuff. Right, you're saying that, Uh, you're saying you're all for suppressors, but

That's right, and I think a good way to illustrate that is to talk about what we call the three dB rule. When when you're talking about sound pressure, you're talking about decibels, and it's not a linear scale, it's not one to one, it's logarithmic, and the curve has an exponential growth pattern for sound pressure. So that means that when you're going from let's just look at decibels

But when you take that up to.

Ninety three decibels, you're only going to be allowed four hours, got it. So there's a trade off there, But that means that when you go from one hundred and thirty eight decibels to one hundred and forty one decibels on a reading which can be again influenced by temperature atmosphere where you are, those variables make a huge.

Difference in the risk to your hearing.

So when we're teetering right there on that line of does this suppressed gunshot actually fall within allowable category?

Does it?

You know what's the standard deviation there? I'm going to recommend adding earplugs every time, especially for kids.

If you want to have a fun party or at an event, have someone come out and stick that custom earwhag Grace came to our office one day and everybody got to get the she like comes with this big needle, not a.

Not a needle, not a needle, and.

She injects this hot wax into your ear.

It's not hot, she's just.

Not a needle. She molds. I'm joking. She she molds. She molds everyone's ears. So if you're having like a whatever, you're having an event, a corporate event, I don't know, she'll come out and mold everyone's ears and then give get you custom plugs because I would complain to Grace. I'll carry my ear plugs around for ten days, and then when someone at the end of the hunt, when someone finally gets to make the shot, I don't put the sun's bitches in and so have a like good ear.

You know you're you're getting better about that.

A thousand times better. I'm gonna tell you a story. I was with my kid and we were pig hunting on my buddy's ranch, and we snuck up on some pigs. His mom poundered hearing protection into him so much we snuck up on some pigs. He informs me he does not have his hearing protection. We snuck out back to the truck, got the hearing protection, snuck back in, and then shot the pig.

Wow.

And I was like, yeah, I was trying to fight against him on this and he's like, Mom said, yeah, so the next generation is going to have better hearing. I'm headed toward hearing aids like the damage is done on me.

Well, but hopefully we're going to stabilize it and slow down that progression as much as we can.

Yeah. If I yelled to someone. I had this recently when I was at our Fisheck, I'd yell to our neighbor and the neighborhood say something and I would turn to my kid and they go, he said, like, what the is he talking about? Oh? He said to whatever. I'm like, how can you hear that? Yeah?

Great? If I If I uh, if it happens to take me, say, five shots to kill my prong horn on my upcoming hunt, and every single shot registers right at one hundred and forty, you're way over, am I getting that hearing damage?

One hundred and forty is the recommendation for the limit for a peak exposure over an eight hour period of time. It's assuming you're going to shoot that gun one time.

That's gonna be a long chase.

So the answer is yes, it's five days.

Which is.

You start asking yourself the question of did you have that crack from supersonic ammunition on top of that that was not suppressed. That's another one hundred and fifty to one hundred and seventy just before the actual blast of the gun. So your ears having to take on that assault as well. So why not us join forces. Let's odo pro and silence are central. Put out some PSA where you get a pack of earplugs with every suppressor because the two are better together. That's what I in reading a lot.

Of Better Together.

I think Jack Jack Johnson has a great song with Better Together.

It's always been oh you would, Oh you would Jack Johnson?

Please, I just.

Jack Johnson view. But honestly, it's like that's that's the PSA right there. It's that when you combine some great hearing protection that still allows you to maintain localization, conversation, game awareness, and just the sounds you enjoy in nature, and you pair that with a with a suppressors, that's going to get you down close to one. Then now we're talking. Now we're talking, let's put.

That man actually speaking of great combinations, grace and great pairings. We have a meat Eater silenced or central suppressor on the table. It's gonna do the industry.

Well, you know what. Meat eater dot com also carries the oudopro impulse, which should.

Just be.

Concert.

We'll make it a thing, Grace that we'll offer a combo package at some point when we start slinging these things, Grace.

Com I hear you. I'm using my words carefully. I hear you. And you when you came and sat in our studio, it like it. It changed my It was it was the pep talk. I needed to start getting serious about my ears. Awesome. A little late, a little late, but for the next generation.

But not too late because to your point from the beginning of the episode, if you're listening to this right now, you're using your ears.

Yes, let's talk about the suppressors in front of us.

Yeah, all right. So we have like kind of a timeline of suppressors here that we worked silence at Central on to back up. Brandon and the team came to us a couple of years ago and they're like, man, we should build like a suppressor together. See one of those supressers that this is the final product there, Steve.

That's why.

Oh yeah, Uh Brandon and the team introduced us to Lucas and uh that piece is gone, oh man and uh and they were like, no, like really, let's build this thing how you want to build us wrestler. So Jannis cal and I had kind of the first introduction call with Lucas and the engineers at Silence are Central and provided a bunch of feedback on length weight suppressors. We like supressers, we don't how important the sound level

Right.

So the other thing that we wanted, knowing that a lot of us are hunting with bigger calibers, is a decent level of recoil reduction that isn't seen on the market right now in suppressors. But not only that, being able to tune the break that you see on the end of the suppressor to make the gases disperse the

Yeah, I want to explain that thing about about being able to tune them, yeah, or go ahead and explain, because you know, let's say you're aiming at a target a couple hundred yards away at the range, and you shoot, and every time in your gun settles it'll usually be and this is a function of posture and other things, it'll usually be. Then what lands You'll find that it's always to the.

Right, right, So you like a lefty shooter.

Yeah, yeah, we were talking about that the other day. Yep. Uh, it's gonna bounce in some some predictable fashion. In the perfect world, it bounces and lands back and when you when everything settles, you're right back on the target. Yep. And you don't have to go look for what happened. That's how people miss. Yeah, they don't. They're not tracking what's going on. At the end of it. They shoot. They never see what happened. All of a sudden, the animals is gone. They don't know if it fell over,

Yeah, So like if you screw a muzzle break on, because that's like the most drastic if you look at your break and on that like if it's directional, it just has the side ports on it, that break is like at a forty five degree angle. It's going to be a pretty drastic like shift in that rifle. When it reads jump, it's going to jump one way or the other, depending on how you have that right. So when you talk about tuning a break, like a lot of them have like a locking caliber on there where

Back down, which is pretty satisfying.

It's amazing. Yeah, what we wanted with this is to create something similar with with this break to where you could make it to where not all these ports are open, and then you can adjust how that recoil is gonna disperse or how those gases are going to disperse out the end of the barrel, and how you feel that recoil and how that thatkind jumps, which has never been

Is everybody clear that we combined a break with a suppressor? Is that clear? So we feel like that's clear?

Honestly, That's what I was like hanging on. I'm going is that is that what they're saying?

It's both.

Yeah, So the brake is on the end of the suppressor, so it's it's acting as part of the suppressor, but also the ability to adjust it as you're shooting. You know, every time you put this, you know, put this silence around a different firearm, it's going to be rotated differently once you thread that all the way on the barrel.

Yeah, and get if you hand him the suppress or there, Steve, I think you should talk through like how you solve for that.

Yeah, so you know, like a normal radio break on a suppressor. We've got holes all the way throughout this this end cap here, but there's a sleeve inside of it that gives the shooter the option to adjust it to their firearm, so it specifically tuned to their gun no matter how they're shooting it. So this this sleeve inside can be adjusted to only open the ports on the side and the ports on the top, close the ports on the bottom, depending how that's installed onto the gun.

Yeah, bought that same piece there. If you want, you can bit right and then take the break out completely.

Yep.

So going back to to how do we get this thing as quiet as possible to reduce as much noise and hearing damage as possible. If you're not as concerned with the recoil, you can flip this piece around and put it in here and it will shut off all of these ports. So that's gonna make it as quiet quite as possible, because when those ports are open, they're letting additional gas out that would have been trapped in that silencer for longer.

So less noise, more recoil. Correct yep, gotcha. Yeah.

You know.

The thing I think that should be pointed out on suppressors too.

Is.

You can just because you're shooting a suppressor doesn't mean you can't turn around and shoot unsuppressed, like whatever difference you find in your rifle between your suppressor and not as fixed like it's you're gonna be when you put your supressor on, You're gonna be a little lower than your normal point of impact, but it's gonna be predictable. You could take that thing off shoot, put it on shoot, take an off shoot, put it on shoot, take it off off shoot, and you're gonna wind up with two

Yep, yep, yeah, because you're just dealing basically like gravity.

That's just right.

And if you give like really nerd out where that changes as angles because gravity has a different pull on it.

It's a good point.

So if you have a suppressor on the end of your barrel and then you point up, that's gonna pull different than if you're you know, parallel with the ground and vice versa. It could be lighter, right if if you don't have suppressor on there, that's a little different nerd out.

But no, like Garrett gave me the best nerd out I'd ever heard of their day, gun nut nerd out, check this out. Yeah, listen, your bullet comes out at spinning clockwise from your perspective. Okay, if there's a cross wind, your bullet splinting. So you're you're the shooter. I think of this as yourself shooting. You're shooting your bullets flying towards target. It's spinning clockwise. If there's a wind coming from your right, that bullet is gonna I'm gonna say, climb.

Yeah.

And it's also dependent on like the twist rate of your barrel. So if you have a one to eight twist, that's gonna climb or drop faster than if you had one ten or one twelve.

This is all stuff I'm going to factor in when i'm shooting bucks ate hundred yards too, right, Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, no, it's you can nerd out on that. I think where we had a lot of fun with this one man, and we got to test it with Giannis yesterday. We did a little experiment. Man, it doesn't seem like this little break on the end of this suppressor is a huge factor. But like Lucas said, when you have that break engaged, it's a ten percent more reduction in recoil, which when you're shooting a three hundred wind mag like you'll take everything you can get, right, but you lose like,

Yeah, open or closed. I was impressed. We shot three hundred win mag yesterday, one hundred and eighty grain bullet and uh. The main other suppressor that I used is a nine inch Banish thirty that the Monal name and uh so consumerably bigger than this one. And I would say that this one, like, I don't I didn't shoot it right next to each other, but it seemed as though it was almost apples to apples and like it really quieted down and the requil was like that gun

Cal brought that up duck hunt with my kids, But I put all the hearing protection on my kids, you know, and there's nothing you can yell at them.

Come back here?

What are you doing?

They just are going.

Yeah, they're like they're like on a space walk essentially.

I think a lot of Do we have an MSRP yet for the one that we're making?

Yeah? What is? What is? Tell people? What does this suppressor cost?

Yeah, so this one's going to be twelve ninety nine?

Okay, okay, seems like a lot of people are gonna say it seems like a lot of money for like a metal tube. Why does the suppressor cost one thousand dollars?

It's one hundred percent titanium. Titanium is hard to source a machine. You saw him take it apart. People want to take him apart and clean them. There's not many of them out there you can take apart and clean.

Okay.

One thing we didn't talk about is we let people pay why they wait. I know, we get quicker turnarounds, but some guys are gonna take a few months to get it if he's the guy that's been arrested or whatever. We let you pay. Why you wait, so you don't do it all at once, okay.

But to answer the question, then it would be because of the design. Yeah, it goes into it, yeah, absolutely, and the materials.

Yeah, there's a lot of small parts there.

Yeah. And everything that we do is you know, precision machined, So just a lot of time and quality that goes into it to make make the product like it is.

Which which adds to that, where do you guys do all that work? All?

We got two.

Facilities that we do in the Midwest that that we work really closely with that that do the machining for us.

I want to make of that. What do they start with?

It's all started from either a solid bar or tube and then they make each of the components.

All right, man, so tell people how to find you guys.

No, first, I want to know about cleaning them. We touch on cleaning them.

Because everybody's actually going to clean one of those.

You have to.

You have to because mine right now, I have one, the Vanish thirty, which you can change it from nine to seven inches. You probably own one of those two, do uh? And I'm guessing since you haven't cleaned it, yours also is locked up and you can't take it apart right now.

Like mine, I wouldn't know because I don't have gone and cleaned it. Yeah, so I should be cleaning it.

Yeah, let's talk through that, because I think that's really important because right now I'm comny shots.

You know, the clean So they usually base it on the fact that it may not need cleaning, but if you wait too long, it's harder to get it apart. God, so they say every couple hundred rounds.

Okay.

The thing that seems to work the best for cleaning the eggs is taking all the baffles out and putting it like a CLR that calcium lime rust remover. It's basically acid. It'll eat the carbon right off of it. Some people do a fifty to fifty mix, but you probably don't want to use it on soak the whole tube in there because it can mess up the Sarah coding.

Just the baffles.

Yeah, and you can run a brush through it to get it out. But yeah, you can let the baffles. I mean they're one hundred percent titano.

So that's Sarah Codd titanium.

Yeah, yep. Absolutely. You can see this. So the logo sticks out. It's two layers of Sarah cotes, so you have a different color. So when it gets engraved, you can see the bottom layer as well.

Well that's cool.

Yeah, but so it's that easy unscrew the yeah, the back you know, we have baffles out.

Yeah, and we have a baffle removal tool if they do get carbon up or you can actually push them out. It's a little device that you turn and it pushes the baffles out yep. And then you just basically put it in cleaner overnight. It's going to eat it up.

I feel like a jackass, and then just rinse them to differ exactly.

Yeah, exactly, your your zero will shift.

To just like if you have just like if your gun's filthy.

Yeah, that's why he hasn't done it yet.

Yeah, and also you can because maybe it was aware of that, but just being dumb, I don't know.

It starts messing with your volume too, So if you're decreasing the volume and your signs or it can potentially get louder so to be able to open up the volume again.

Right, here's another I got another question too, are you good on cleaning? What's the at what point will there be more of a discussion about suppressed shotguns and like will you ever have it be that you can still have a site of a flat plane on top.

I know what's on our R and D list, Like how do.

You aim it? Do you know what I mean? Like, it's like think about what to do to like traditional shotgun shooting to have a raised Yeah, so.

Yeah, you got to keep it under under that site picture that you have on just your normal rifles today. But you also don't don't want too much weight out there to to impact your swing as you're you're pulling ye bird either. So it's kind of a delicate, delicate situation to design around on how do you how do you keep it as small and light as possible but still cut down that the sound on you know, your twelve gage with a three inch magnum shell in there

Well indoor country for old man. He had a sweet one.

Yeah. Do you hear the sound out of that?

Yeah, So that that could be a thing in the future.

Yeah, absolutely, there's a there's a couple out on the market today, but really trying to find one that works for all hunting, all hunters and all aspects of you know, whether that's turkey, de goose to duck or anything.

Yeah. Well, I know one guy that shoots the suppress around the shotgun for turkeys, but then he runs he runs a red dot on an elevated platform to get up and over the thing. But that has no for like, wing shooting is just not a yeah, not a thing.

Oh it's about to be, you think, So are you just talking to say talking about Yeah, yeah, it becoming a thing people in the industry that are like trying it and going, oh my god, that works good.

Oh okay. I still think of that as a very loud activity.

Wing shooting, shooting ducks.

Oh, I'm talking about the elevated sights on shotguns.

Oh yeah, okay, I think it meant like a way that you'd ever solve you'd ever be able to wing shoot with traditional form wing shoot a suppressed shotgun, because think about it, like the can on the end would change everything. It'd be above your rib. It'd be above your rib and your bead.

Although technically you're not looking at that anyways.

Right, Okay, you know if your will primos apparently not. I am aware of my bead when I shoot, even though I should apparently should not be. All right, Well, Grace, tell people how to find you so they can so they can get some some they can talk through their options on hearing protection. And I'm gonna if my wife gets her way, I'm going to be coming to you from my hearing aids pretty soon.

There you go. So the best way to find us is online.

Our woll will take care of you of you stave Odoprotechnologies dot com. That's O T O p R O Technologies dot com.

And then our.

Telephone number is seven sixty nine two three zero zero eight three four.

My buddy Pat Dirkin, who I mentioned, he said he's got a setting on his hearing aids where he can make his grandkids basically vanish.

Yeah, that wouldn't be too hard to do. Actually, you just you find the picture of their voices and just turn it down out.

He said, he can mess with his He can make it that he can't hear his wife. He can make it that he only hears the TV. He can make it that he doesn't hear his grandkids in the background.

So tell me here.

Hearing aids have become pretty cool little techie devices.

They're not what your grandma were.

Yeah, exactly. And then let's talk about how to find Silence a central and how to begin the process of getting a suppressor if you're in one of the four fifths of states that allow you to do so.

Yeah, you just go to silence orcentral dot com or do Google search or silence are Central. And like you said, we can mail the meat eater suppressor. After they do the paperwork, it gets approved right to the front door, so making it super convenient.

No, fourteen months.

We haven't seen any that long in a long time, which is great.

No, it's sitting in some weird backroom at the sporting good store for fourteen months.

No, Nope, it's super quick. I mean, like I said, we're seeing three to five days on transfers. Yeah, it's changed everything. Really. I mean we were talking about the Hare Protection Act earlier. I think that there's less of an argument for the Haring Protection Act, like you said, now that you're getting up so quickly, because that was the big plant, you know, the big pain point was

But I do like that little hook you were talking about of being like, Okay, let's throw this into.

Pittman roberts On hundred percent.

Throw that two hundred bucks into that pile.

Yeah, it's growing at forty percent per year, and that'd be two hundred million this year. So that's a that's a lot of money to go into conservation.

Yeah, I mean, what's Pittman Robbins normally come in at a billion? Yeah, somewhere around.

A billion in the last couple of years. Yeah, that's a huge.

Yeah, it's the biggest I'm no mathematician, but big individual.

Well, we just threw out four fifth, so I was trying to do that math, but yeah, I.

Can't help with that like that.

I mean a good time to point out though too, like Brandon and Silence through Central have been huge supporters of conservation. They're donating a ton of suppressors for a bunch of different groups that are kicking ass out there.

And.

A lot of good a lot of goods and services.

So yeah, we're up to seven point six million dollars since we started it. Really yeah, right, Yeah, the push is anyone out there that has local conservation type activities where they need a fundraiser, we give away free silencers and we let them keep one hundred percent of the proceeds.

So and then you guys run the process for whoever wins it.

Yep, exactly exactly, And our hope is they buy more or people at the event hear about us, and it's just kind of a you know, came up as a word of mouth where it creates a win win where you benefit conservation and also it benefits us to get the word out that you can hunt with suppressors. Because think we first started doing this, most people thought they were illegal and most people thought you couldn't hunt with them.

Yeah, that's awesome.

And the day this drops, the uh that suppress will be available.

Oh it will. Yep.

We're taking bets internally on how long it lasts before it sells out. I mean, it's this is a big deal. This is impressive. I appreciate you guys coming to the table and helping us create this. It's awesome.

Yeah, it's a great one.

Well thanks for coming on. Man, everybody, protect your ears. And I don't know if you got if you got little kids, protect your little kids ears. Man, I think of the all town. I'm laying in bed at night listening to my ears go. Yeah, all right, thank you guys.

Yeah, thanks Steve, Thanks guys, appreciate it absolutely.

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And super states.

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I leave type brandad.

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