Ep. 598: MeatEater Radio Live! Eating Beaver, Mystery Meat, and Duck DNA (Who’s Your Daddy?)

Smell us now, Lady, Welcome to meat Eater Trivia.

Meat Eater Podcast.

Welcome to meat Eater Radio Live. It's eleven am Mountain Time on September the twelfth, and we're live from Meat Eater Headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. I'm your host, Brent Reeves and joined today by our colleagues Seth Morris, senior photographer and Max Parter Videographer. On today's show, we'll talk to

Well, judging off of your Instagram content, I could take a wild guess something to do with squirrels.

Man. Let me tell you. It was in Springdale, Arkansas, the World Championship Squirrel cookoff Reeva Hanson and I went down there. My wife Alexis and daughter Bailey came up along with about three thousand of our closest friends.

That's awesome.

How long has this been going on?

I think it spent There was some There was some time during the COVID dilemma that you know that it everything shout they shut it down. But it's been going on for several years now and I can't like ten years, and I may be they may not even be close, but it's been going on long enough that now it's more like a family reunion than anything else. And it just keeps getting bigger every year.

That's Fun's what's your favorite thing about that event?

Yeah?

Walk us through like a day. Is it a weekend or just one one day?

It's on Saturday, and I don't know if they got the date set for next year, but it's one day. It starts at nine in the morning. Teams get there at like eight thirty. They have a meeting, and then they commenced to cooking at nine and the public is welcome at nine o'clock and it goes to five and it is just all you can eat squirrel and anything else you can imagine during that period that time period, and it's just there's kids running around.

It's pretty nuts.

Huh oh, it's wild. It's yeah, it's acre nuts.

How do they get all those squirrels? Just people donating them or.

A lot of folks bring their own with it. There's a long list of very regulated criteria of what the squirrels have to be, the condition they have to be in, all inspected. Everything is good to go. But now they will supplast squirrels of folks that don't have them. There was a team last year from Alaska, Alaska.

Yeah, oh yeah, they're not bringing squirrels.

They're not bringing squirrels. So they bunch of a bunch of squirrel hunters killed a bunch of squirrels and they have them there for the squirrel skinning contest and cool all that. So they let them have it.

Man, that sounds like a blast. They gotta make it down there one of these years. How many people.

Is there total? And how many people are like traveling from different states?

Uh, there was folks there a couple of years ago from I think New Zealand maybe.

Oh wow, I didn't know this is such a big thing in England.

I talked to people from all over the US, Man, Oregon, Wisconsin. I mean, you just point in any direction you want to point from Arkansas and there was folks there from it. That's cool, all having a good time.

Are you going to compete next year? No about Clay.

You know, he was going to compete in the squirrel skinning contest this year and he was He bragged all year long. He said, you know, I can take it if they let me use my clippers, and they would have Dad and gummt. When he got there, he said, I forgot my clippers. I want to tell you Clifton Jackson is the guy that has won it for the I think since God was in junior high school. Clifton has been taking the trophy every year. And he had some good competition this year, but he smashed it pretty well.

I think Clay Newcomb should practice all year. Yeah and get in there and whoop some button next year.

Yeah, put his skin squirrel where his mouth is.

Yeah, there you go, Come on, Clay.

All right, now onto our first guess joining us on the line first are Jake and Riley Debo from New Hampshire. They are founders of New England Naturals, or company that sells a variety of beaver based products. Jake and Riley Welcome to the show.

How's it going, guys?

Good?

Yeah, this is awesome. Give Jake Riley, y'all give us a rundown of what's going on and what you guys are doing as far as trapping beavers and how y'all use and what y'all do with them.

Sure, well, right now, it's all prep work, so you know, it takes a lot to lead up to get towards trapping season. So we're dipping and dying traps and making sure everything's tuned up. But come October fifteen, our beaver trapping season opens up, and so from then on we do take a break duringto your hunting season to dedicate our time there, but we'll be chasing beaver's open water in through the ice. Of course, we're using the fur from them, but we're also harshing a lot of meat.

Sometimes, how'd you get? How'd you get? Where did this come from? Do y'all come have a background and eating wild game and trapping?

I wouldn't say that we have a background in I mean I grew up hunting right so venison your white tailed deer kind of classic.

Table fare.

As far as beaver, we got into trapping kind of together when we first got married, and we.

Didn't want to waste the meat, and we tried it one night in a stir fry, and that just changed our entire perception on this meat. And since then we've been just trying new recipes, trying new cuts, and just getting more and more people comfortable with eating beaver meat. Jokes aside, it's a great, great resource.

If you could compare beaver meat to a different kind of meat, what would you compare it to?

You usually say beef, like a really rich like beef, But I compare it to lamb a lot because it's really really rich in color. It's a very dark colored meat, and it doesn't have a distinctive taste.

I don't think maybe maybe.

Closer to beef, but I think when you're looking at it, it looks a lot like a lamb.

What's your guys go to with the beaver meat? Like, what are you doing with it?

Steaks?

Man steaks are our beaver steaks are something that we don't share. I mean those are those are in the freezer and those are just for us year round. But beaver legs we make a variety different croc pot dishes out of, or we used to make beaver grind.

We actually have some.

We're going to a family event this weekend where you know, we need to bring a dish and so our go to the barbecue pulled beaver and the timing of this just happened to be that we've got some here that we can show you guys.

Yeah, I would love to I love to see.

Yeah, let's see it on on the in the first on the skin and table.

I can smell it from you what beaver meat.

Looks like, and it's really it's you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a pulled brisket. I'm gon serve this on some Hawaiian buns with a little bit of cheese and meet some cool slof you have it and it's Uh, it's.

Wow, that's fantastic. A few years ago, Steve and I made a bunch of Italian sausage out of beaver and it was fantastic. And yeah, I just need to start exploring more with some beaver meat.

I think about all the years of my brother and I've been trapping beavers and all the groceries that we wasted just by getting the beavers out and selling the hides. That is, because you can tell them look at by looking at me that I like to eat.

Going back to trapping, what's the largest beaver you guys have ever ever trapped it?

Last year?

Yeah, Connor personal best last year was sixty points six pounds and it was a big female.

So we've been flirting.

We've had quite a few in that fifty eight fifty nine, but we just couldn't break the sixty pounds.

We finally did this last year.

That's cool you guys. I've been watching on on Instagram and you guys have that tail wall, right.

Yeah, yeah, it's actually right.

You give us a little sneak peak of that.

Yeah, this is where so essentially any beaver that's over fifty pounds makes it on the wall.

Cool.

We'd like to, you know, show it off because you can see all these nicks and different kayo fleshing board out of the way, all the different you know, wounds on these beavers and different sizes, and that the story of each beaver.

So what we're looking at for the folks that they can't see, they're not watching, they can't see the video is Jake and Riley have made an outline of the of the big beaver tails that they've called what what what's the requirement to get traced onto the wall?

Jake, It's got to be over fifty pounds.

Over fifty pounds and there's a there's like a whole wall right there. That's awesome.

Is gonna make a nice print for like a shirt to have a bunch of beaver tails on it?

Oh?

Yeah, that'd be cool.

Yeah, cal hunter.

Spencer, I'm kind of a rookie to trapping. But is there is there a limit on beavers in the trappings?

Not in this area.

There regulated by the length of the season, and that season is really long, but the majority of the season there's ice and so it's hard to catch beavers and so kind of buy conditions and length of seasons how the fishal wildlife agencies you know, monitor that.

But we've gotten extremely robust beaver population.

That's great.

I'd say we're.

Kind of saturated as far as habitat goes, and so they start popping up in roadside ditches and stuff like that. But yeah, so there's there's no limit and there's also no shortage of them.

Very cool.

I remember last last winter was my first time ever experiencing it with Seth and Steven. I just thought it was so cool. The bubble lines underneath the ice.

Yep, learn how to read the sign.

Yeah, that was the coolest part.

I think how many beavers you guys taking a year on average?

Last year we caught ninety.

The year prior to that, I think we were in the high sixties, and we've kind of been inching.

Our way up.

Cool.

We'd like to I'd like to see triple digits next year.

If you can there you go to shoot for Yeah, no doubt. What about you getting your y'all getting ready now? Trapping season opens next month if if that's correct, that's right, Tell how you what are you doing with your traps to get them ready?

Yeah, So the biggest thing is just you know, So this is a brand new body grip trap. So it's silver, just fresh metal for those that can't see. And it needs a couple of things. First, it needs to trap tags. That's an identifying tag that attaches you to it. We actually add two inline swivels to our body grips. That's not a legal requirement, it's just something we like to do. And then we dip them and by dipping or dying,

And we're also prepping our bait. We're using the beaver caster that we harvested from last year to make the bait that we're going to use or the lure that we're going to use this year to catch more beavers.

Interesting, is it a factor fiction? Do you use beaver caster or do they use beaver caster in like vanilla asterakt or like perfumes and stuff.

Right, Yeah, they do expensive perfumes and vanilla and vanilla extract. But I think the vanilla world is moving a little towards other sources that are cheaper to use for the artificial vanilla smell. But beaver was used for a very long time to have that smell.

H very cool. What else are you guys targeting throughout the year.

So we'll start with raccoons, so we actually are are kind of annual thing is raccoons from October fifteen until deer season and three weeks of deer hunting, and then that usually ends the first couple of days of December, and from December until April ten, it'll be mostly beaver, but otter muskrat. Right as we messed around muskrat over the last couple of years and getting better and better at that, a little bit of mink trapped, mostly water critters.

Cool any no coyotes at all or anything or fox.

Yeah, I mean i'd like to get into that.

I've messed around with canine trapping in the in the past, but the reality is best three weeks of kyo trapping are the best three weeks of deer tracking here in the Northeast.

Hey tell me that you you caught ninety beavers last year? What did you do with the hat?

So we sent them all out to the tannery, and so they're going to be back here, hopefully in the next week or two, and then we make them into finished products.

So we also have a fur of your shop. We bought a first.

Sewing machine, and we make mittens and hats, and we can make blankets and all sorts of things of that nature. So we're we're making final products with the beavers that we're catching.

That's cool, y'all.

They're using everything on the beaver except the chewing that he does. That's awesome.

That is awesome.

That is cool.

Uh.

One one Valentine's Uh one year on Valentine's Day, I got my girlfriend a pair of beaver mittens.

I bet you like that.

Yellow making those there in house there, it's your pluf.

Oh yeah yeah.

Start to finish from catching the beaver to shipping out that final package. We're the only ones handling it besides the tanning. That's a whole other well.

And this all started because when we first started trapping together the fur market, you weren't getting a lot for each pelt, but we were putting in hours and hours of work not just trapping, but also scanning and fleshing and putting up that fur. So we sold our pelts into the market for one year, and then the next year we said we got to do something different because we put so much work and love into this just for a tin o be shipped out for a very

Oh, that's outstanding and they absolutely have of one of the most seth You and I were talking about it earlier. Yeah, you guys are running a school on from start to finish, prepping for into the finished product of anything to do with with trapping and fur and fur. And then it's just it's really good. It's it's something that is much maligned and it gets it's the low hanging fruit. Is when people want to start working anti anything into the

Yeah. On on that note, guys, this is this is Phil and the the audio engineer over here. We have a question from Nate who is asking, this is kind of putting you guys on the spot, but he asks his trappers tend to be under fire from animal rights activists, what groups can they follow invest in in order to help you guys have any sort of conservation groups that specifically are beaver or trapping, orient to.

Start join your local Trappers Association in your state, and then join the one in the neighboring state and the neighboring state and the National trapp Association for Takers of America.

They're really on the front line. And beyond that, there's.

All sorts of great organizations that we're seeing on social media right now like CRWM and how for Wildlife. So follow along on those social medias, help spread those messages. But also, you know, we need our local trapper associations. They need money, so they need your you know, donations

Very good advice, very good advice. All right, where can we find you guys online? Where can folks find y'all?

You can find us that New England Naturals on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, but then you can also find our products on New England Naturals dot net.

That's awesome. Jake and Raley, thank you so much.

For thanks guys.

Thank you.

All right, we are on to the next segment, and it's called Mystery Meat.

Don't know what is this meat?

Is it?

Is it?

What time?

What is this meat?

Fantastic?

Yeah, all right, Mac, we we haven't done this before. So, uh, mystery Meat. I cooked a piece of meat which Seth and Bran will blind taste test and then they'll guess what kind of meat it is. And uh yeah, so put on your blindfolds. You might have to take off your glasses there. So yeah, this is going to be very interesting and hopefully they like it.

So uh, hopefully this isn't a trick.

No, this is not a trick and it's not beaver actually, so keep that off the list. I'll just yeah, we'll just god do.

One of these. This is a demonstrating I'm going to do all this is this?

Is this a toothpick? Should not eat the where's my mic?

Here?

We go only toothpick?

Alright, toothick I'm going for.

Yeah, it's tender.

Mm hmm. Okay, what are first impressions here? What are we the initial notes? What do we have in the in the in the bouquet?

And texture doesn't seem like an ungulate just my opinion.

Interesting?

Interesting, So cooking this, Phil, can we see.

Some bring up the photos here?

Sorry, I'm doing right into the mic. So yeah, watching right now.

This is fantastic.

There is a picture of the meat on the cutting board. And what I did I did a little trimming.

Armadillo.

No, yeah, I did a little trimming, just cleaned it up a little bit and then I just seasoned it up. I call it my Holy Trinity, salt, pepper, and garlic. It's pretty easy.

Someone from down the Bayou.

Yeah, but yeah, then I just threw it on the grill, just cooked it both sides.

And is this something that you got yourself? Max?

I don't know if I should answer that.

All right, Okay, just keep thinking. Well, it's it's got a It's hard for me to distinguish. It doesn't taste like what I would think or what I remember waterfowl tasting like, or the texture. But I think that's what I'm gonna I think I've got a guess.

I have a gas based off of just me knowing what Max likes to do.

Okay, before I say, you guys, give your guesses, and then before you reveal Max, I'm gonna list off kind of what the most popular guess is from the audience here. I don't want their I don't want the audience's guesses to influence them. So how about we hear from Brent and Seth first, and then we'll bring up Yeah, I'm all right, Brent, what do you think the mystery meat is?

I think I think the mystery meat is Canada goose.

Okay, Seth, what do you think mystery meat is san Hill crane. Alright, well, we have people guessing goose Brent Brent on the and the audience says goose. Uh sled Saint says crane crane. It's a lot of geese and crane. Those are the popular answer. Hunter Spencer says, speckle belly.

I don't think it's diver ducks. I'm not getting a fish taste.

All right, Well, yes, I took my mask off, you did.

Seth's going to keep his mask on the whole time.

No, if you give me, if you if you give me one sect here, Max, I can I can cue up a drum roll. It's gonna be worth it all this time. Hold on here, Okay, I'm gonna give you a drum roll, and then I would like for you to reveal the mystery.

Meat sounds great?

Are you ready?

It's really good?

Oh, it is Sandhill crane. Seth has had it before.

I was out just out of town here the other day and went out to look at some milk and saw some out there, and every you know, everybody always describes them as being the rabbie in the sky. That is. I would have never guessed that.

Have you had it before?

No, that's it.

That's the first time you can have the rest of that.

Taking it home. That is man, that's good.

It was.

I was always you know, I always think something's over exaggerated for years and years and years. I mean all the time I was in a guiding business. Folks that would hunt with me would say, man, you gotta go out and shoot the sand hill cranes Rebbie in the sky. And I thought, after all these years, I'm going to eventually eat it and go That tastes like spam, which is also good.

No, I mean they're great to eat and they're super fun to hunt to. Last September, I drew a tag for out here and I ended up shooting a couple and yeah, it was a great time. Like watching decoys is so cool too. They're such a big animal.

Now, will they come to goose decoys or you've got to have specific decoys.

Just growing up in North Kota, I never really hunted them, but they would come into the goose decoys just as long as like they're feeding in that field. But last fall I hunted them over sand hill decoys.

Yeah.

Yeah, they're a lot bigger than I thought they were seeing them.

Oh, they're huge.

Yeah yards.

You know, I've multiple times been like, oh, there's a deer over there and like pull up your ocatars, like, no, that's not deer.

And they also like retrievers. They'll put safety goggles on own retrievers.

Yeah. So last fall when I hunted, I made sure they're dead and just ached and then I sent my dog after him because I didn't have goggles.

So yeah, Brent, we have a very direct message from an Alexis Reeves saying you're not allowed to bring anything else home.

We're running out of room.

It's funny.

Oh that's good.

Yeah, that was fantastic.

Good.

I'm glad you guys enjoyed it.

Yeah, now I got another reason to come back. We're moving on to the next segment, One minute Fishing.

Do I feel lucky?

We'll do.

You go ahead.

Make my cast.

All right. Our next segment is one minute Fishing. It's one minute fishing is where we go live to someone who's fishing and they have one minute to catch a fish, and if they're successful, we'll make a five hundred dollars donation to a conservation group. This week, our angler is colleague Corey Hawkins, who's the content coordinator here at meat Eater. If you saw the Buffer Zone episode on it was last season's Mediater show, you would have watched him on

Hello?

You look taller.

Because my feet as the water.

There you go, all right, man? You looks like you got some good weather. Is this on a scale of one to ten? Is this where are we at on fishing weather? Ten being the best?

You know, it's been super hot now as of the last twenty four hours of strops twenty degrees uh so not ideal, but this heavy.

Overcast could be really good.

I fished my way down here with a little white streamer and wrecked them. But you know what they say, went in doubt, nymph them out, So I got a little bobber going.

Now, what's on the end of the bobber?

I got a couple of little nymphs, got a little frenchy tungsten bead. Heead mainly to help my little size twenty pheasant tail get down and deep right where I need it.

Well, Corey is he's an experience fly fishing and hunting guy too, So really, if you doesn't catch a fish here, it's nobody's fault. But Corey's this.

That's true story. Corey, what's your scale?

One to ten?

You know I'd probably give it a nine. Okay, I like that, So go big or go home?

Right? All right? We ready with the clock.

Yeah, I've got I've got a I've got some music that is exactly one minute long. It's fairly epic. So Corey, you're gonna have to live up to this orchestration here. But when the song is over, that's your one minute and we'll see how it goes.

You ready, I'm ready?

All right, let's see it. Okay, I that's a false cast. Oh he's going okay, in there, tight tight loops.

He's got it in the water, seeing it out set the hook.

I'm hoping you guys can see every move.

Oh, yeah, we got you.

He's casting again and cast is out. He's got it right in this scene. Oh, I'm waiting in the back stream. But the stripping another cast, another cast, gotta be getting close. Come on, Corey, come.

On, Frenchy. That was a hook set?

Come on?

Yeah? What do I got all the time?

Boy?

Just gotta wait those songs.

You're right for three? Two?

One?

Okay, awesome? I tay to do. That was a that was given it the old college drive. It ever was one? Did you catch one?

No?

Well thanks Corey, Uh, drop me a pin before you leave there in your top secret place. It was. That was a good effort, my man. So yeah, did you have a pretty good strike?

I did?

Yeah, Bobara went down. Had to have been a fish set the hook and he wasn't there.

Who knows.

I'm fishing barblous size twenty nymphs, so it's easy to hook them.

It wasn't one of those rock fish, was it.

I don't think so. Man. If it was, he was a big one.

Hey.

You know what they say, hook sets are free, that's right?

Yeah all day.

Yeah. I fished last year with Corey on the Yellowstone and me and Chili, and he knows what he's doing, so it ain't it Just it ain't that easy. It's a lot of you get one minute, you know.

You're literally on the clock.

Yeah, literally for sure, thank you, brother, I'll get back to work.

Yeah, you got it, guys, I'll see it you don't catch.

Some more fish?

Ah phail, Yes, sir, we got any listener feedback that we can we do?

Yeah, let's take a take a few here. Here's one from Mogor. I think I'm not sure how I pronounce his name, but he says he'd love to see the whole crew after a no shave November. I don't know. Yeah, me too, Max, I just kind of wanted to, like, Seth, you've had the mustache for as long as I've known you. Have you ever gone like full go tee any sort of beard beard action?

I mean I have in the past, but uh man, I haven't. The longest longest I let it go is when I spend two weeks in Alaska every summer and I don't shave that all the time. But yeah, other than that, Yeah.

Max, this is kind of a this is an incredibly open question, but you can kind of tackle all you want. But Jacob's wondering what your main strategy hunting ducks in southwest Montana is.

My main strategy is scout, scout, scout, even before the hunt start. That's where all my preparation goes into. And I typically don't like hunting if there's not going to be any birds there.

Ye, so, but that can go over It can change overnight too, Yeah for sure.

But yeah, I scout my butt off, and I think my wife will say the same thing. I spend more time scouting than I do hunting.

So oh yeah, and watching the whaler.

Yeah in the weather some too, ye so but yeah, scout find some open water. That's that's what I have to offer.

So sounds good. Spencer chimed in when we were talking to Jake and Riley and said they are so cool. I agree, Oh no, diagree as well. Those two seemed awesome. And on that note, this is more for Seth since since they had to we had to get Jake and Riley had to had to run. But how does one get started in in trapping? We have a plethora of beavers in the creek we irrigate out of, and the old man asked me to manage that. That's a question from Brett.

Well, nowadays you can kind of go to any sporting goods store or pick up a couple of traps. First off, check your regulations in your state. See what's legal. Different states have different regulations for what you can use, what you can't use. Jall size that that kind of stuff. But yeah, just go pick up some traps. There's a lot of resources online these days, especially Jake and Riley. They have a good Instagram channel where U Instagram page where and YouTube and stuff where you can learn a

You YouTube university, right, Yeah, Jake always has a premium choice and headwear. Anytime I see him.

On there, you know.

He's wearing it today too.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

All right, yeah, I think it's that's good for Q and A. Right now, if you guys have anything else at the end of the show, please go ahead and ask or comment in the chat.

All right, Next hot tipoff, Hot tip off time. We've got too hot tip offs today. Now, after we play them both, we're going away in about what we liked and who had the hotter tip. Then we're going to declare a winner and vote on which one we think is better. Phil hit us with that first tip man.

All right, for my hot tip this week, we're gonna talk about a rear rest. A lot of folks take a tripod in the woods with them, but they just use it for glass. And so how many times have you come up over the ridge and there's an elk out there and you want you found like a tree limb to set your rifle on, or in some cases you're hunt an egg. There's a fence post, just something to get the front of your rifle on, but you

So what we did.

Here, this is just like any tree. This is just imagine this is a tree limb coming out. You throw your bag down or puffy or whatever, you set your gun on it. What you're gonna do is you're gonna take your tripod. You've already got it with you, you already glassed up and elk with it. You're gonna bring it in here parallel with the target. The front two legs. Your right arm is coming in in the tripod here

Call that the long range cowboy Garrett.

Yeah, that's our colleague Garrett Long who's the last president of content here. Immediately that you in the background. That was some handsome stranger. Exactly who that guy was, but boy, he looked really smart.

I like that tip. I could have used that last fall.

Yeah, And he showed that to me out there last year when we were out there doing some shooting. I had never done that before. But they ain't kidding. It's rock solid.

What's the next one?

Phil?

The next one is from Hey, it's from Corey Calkins. If we just saw failing to catch a fish in one minute.

But he's this is how to catch a fish in one minute?

How to catch a fish?

Here?

Here we are, here's Corey.

I'm Corey Caulkins, and I got a hot tip for you. I'm out here scouting for elk just before Montana's archery opener. Also trying to get the kinks out. Make sure I'm dialed with my gear. And just realize my wind checker bottle is totally out. Must have poured it out or something last year. So instead of going back to town to buy another ten dollars plastic tube of windicator, I'm just gonna refill this. I always have some gold on or some powder with me, so I'm just gonna use this.

You got some regulations, catalog.

It's gonna get a little messy. Ideally you'd have your boots underneath here catching your extras.

That's a little tip right there.

Two hot tips works great.

Oh a checker like midday boots are soggy from sweat perspiration. You're a crossing creeks.

Pour a little bit of this onto your footbed. Hot tip. Is there nothing that guy can't do?

It for real, all right, Max, I think I'm going with Cory step all right, because.

Don't tell me yet. Don't tell me why yet, Seth.

Man, it's a tough one. I'm gonna go with Garretts.

Though, Okay, you're the I think I'm gonna go with Corey's. Tell me why why? You think?

So before you even get a shot, you got to make sure your wins right, right, So that's step one. So that's where I'm at.

Okay, I like Garrett's number one. I just love shooting rifles, and I just think a lot of people take some sketchy shots leaning off a fence posts and whatnot every year, especially like during antelope seasons kind of when I when I see it the most. And you know, if they just did this little little simple thing here, they would have a solid rest and they would either hit their animal not wounded, or they won't miss.

So right, Okay, I'm they're both really good tips.

Yeah, I agree, then they applied. But the Corey's had an extra had an extra little caveat that you could use it not only with hunting, but taking care of your feet. Yeah, you know, because like they say in the Army, you take care of your feet, your feet, and take care of.

You multiple uses big out there in the back country.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, so you're not toting a lot of a lot of different stuff. But like Garret when I were out there talking the other day, you know, if you're if you're rifle hunting, you're probably glassing from something. You're probably going to have a tripod out there. So if you can't, if you don't have a tripod with you, get a stick, get something, you know, and try to and try to do it as well as you can. Try to do what he was doing there. But I've done it and it is it's rock solid for sure.

We have a Scotty has a question in regard to Corey's hot tip, asking if if flower or fish batter would work, as they always have fish batter in the camp kitchen.

Mmmm, it might get a little uh flowers, depending on humidity, it might get a little kiky in there.

Yeah. We've got Ray saying that he uses corn.

Starch corn stars.

That's a good tip too.

Yeah. Yeah, that's why the gold bonds.

A lot of people saying Corey on there, Corey, Corey.

Okay, so really quick, we've got to I'm gonna we're gonna try something right here. I don't know how it's gonna work out, but we have a surprise call in one sick.

This is live.

Have some.

I'm gonna keep eating this crane here.

Yeah, yeah you should since I was, Since you already gave it to me, you should just keep eating.

It over there, Mac, that's a tender one.

How BIG's a breast on them? Saniel Crane Canada?

Goose bigger depends, I feel like, I mean, obviously anything there's adults in juveniles, So like, juveniles are probably pretty close to your hand, I would say, and then your adults can be just slightly bigger than a goose press ruby.

Having any trouble retrieving them back, I mean for so long.

They're super long, and like, I mean just they're just a big creature.

So yeah, hopefully through the modern technology we'll be able to pull this.

Yeah, yeah, no doubt.

You can read everything from morse code to smoke signals.

There's another uh hot tip from a listener. Uh if you want deer hunting access in a country, trap beaver.

Oh yeah, that's a good Yeah, it's a good way to get on ranches, Yeah, especially here or.

Just put your foot in the door.

Yeah, there's a lot of livestock, you know, livestock growers and stuff out here.

Yeah.

I have troubles with and.

I've done that before Kyote hunting too, before I asked permission for waterfall. It's is like, oh, Kyle, it's here for a year or two.

Hello, So all right, Korean's got somebody?

Hold on? Now's it?

Hold on?

Can I how do I put into a microphone?

Well, if you just want to hold up to the mic, that's what I want.

I wanted some more, some professionalism in this at this media company. But that's okay.

It's nothing but the best.

All right, all right, you're on Hello?

What's up?

Yeah?

Who is this?

Who's who's on the phone?

This is uh Steve.

Never heard of?

Why are you talking so quiet?

Because we're on the We're on our calling now, dude.

Steve, how's it going so far?

And we lost him?

I take it all right?

We should tell what Steve's doing right now? Steve stays out hunting.

We lost him? Yeah, he's he's up in uh Interior, Alaska on a ridge right now.

Colin moose Awsome. Now that's is I assume the same places where he and Clay have been hunting. Yep, same area, would assume same area.

It's a different different spot from where Clay got his, but not far.

Okay, And it's I mean, it's about as remote as you get, and it's it's way back don.

Yep, yep, get there by plane, they drop you off.

It was kind of amazing that we were able to get that much out of it.

Yeah, that little television.

Yeah, it's weird.

You're way in there, but you get a little bit of a te and t service.

Yeah. Well we might get them back in we'll see. But until then, we have a we have another guest coming in Brent, Okay.

Joining us on the line next is doctor Phil Loretzki, a biologist, geneticist, and a duck DNA researcher with the University of Texas at El Passo. He was on episode four nine Our Wild Ducks, Really Wild of the Mediater podcast with Steve. Professor Phil Welcome to the show.

Hey, how are you.

Oh, we're good man. Tell us about what you got going on at the duck DNA lab.

Yeah, so here we are in uh in the lab right here.

I'm gonna switch over the the camera here if I can, I guess I can.

So we're right here.

We're gonna kind of showcase to everybody that of what we do here. If you're a participant of duck DNA, if you're part of the federal or other agencies that we work with, this is simply the process that we go by, uh to figure out.

What is it in your unknown meat?

I guess so if you're a duck DNA participant, you might have noticed the same thing right here. Your stuff comes in, we take it over over here where Uh.

Let me stop you there? How are you getting the duck DNA. Is this a program that you guys are sponsoring.

Yeah, that's right, that's right. So we're in our second year. I was gonna talk about it a little bit, but yeah, participant. We are taking participants right now. It's a program with Ducks Unlimited called duck DNA. You can sign up super easy on duck dna dot com.

You can go on it right there.

You just click on a button apply right now. We've got seven hundred of these kits this year to go out. It's sort of like a Western Big Game draw. Depending on how many people apply. You know, those are your chances probably better than drawing for an elk somewhere.

All right, let me ask you this, Let me ask you this. Why does this matter? Why does duck DNA matter? I mean, we're not trying to solve crimes here, tell me what?

No, yeah, what we're what we're trying to solve and understand our wildlife at the molecular level, sort of the foundation right understanding what are we working with. Do we have a lack of genetic diversity on this mountain with all these sheep versus this mountain? Do we need to move individuals? How is it occurring for the ducks. What we're trying to figure out is, you know, why are

Go ahead, let me tell you. Let me interject something right here. Twenty years ago, I was duck hunting in the green timber of Arkansas and I killed a banded mallard duck with a green leg band from duck farm in Maryland. Oh really, yeah, wow, I've still got that band on my lanyard. But I smell what you're stepping in. Do keep talking?

Well, that that individual going all the way to Arkansas is potentially the problem, because those are the individuals that are that are what we're showcasing, making babies that are not as fit as a wild wild parent, and those proportions are increasing in the Great Lakes region, northeastern area of the Atlantic Flyway. In fact, we're starting to see that trickle into the prairie potholes and into the Pacific

So Doc, this is gonna be the second year. Correct this fin that's that's right.

Okay, we are just about to pick our well, we just picked our first cohort. We got seven hundred kids. I think we picked one hundred and fifty just now. Another one hundred and a couple of weeks and we're gonna go from north to southcast hunting seasons start, you know, earlier in the north and then they later in the South.

For sure. What'd you guys learn from last year, like anything cool or anything that stuck out?

Yeah, So a few of the things that we immediately learned is that the prevalence of Mallard game farm hybrids out there is increasing across the flyways, especially Atlantic and the Mississippi in particular, but it is very specific to areas.

That you are.

So, for example, in Montana, where you guys are very low prevalence, and if I did find a hybrid, it was already way back crossed into it was mostly wild, right, just a little bit of that game farm in them. So we're trying to understand that dynamic across them. The other thing that we immediately learned, though not a ton of hybrids yet, is the Brewers duck. We actually found where the gad brewers duck. If you don't know, is

So now we know it actually happens both ways.

And now we're trying to figure out how often do those hot hybrids, those first year hybrids can they make, you know? And how how prevalent is that and whether it's always with a wild mallard or do game far mallards now have a consequence to these other species as well well?

In the drake Gadwell's defense, a female mallard and a female gadwall do Look.

How.

Did this start? What prompted this study and this investigation if you will?

Yeah, So what prompted this was the findings that my lab were starting to come out. Back in twenty nineteen we started publishing on the game far mallard problem.

We first were looking at it as a mallard black duck.

And then we understood that this was really a problem for a wild mallard popular and you know, just having a good conversation with folks and Duck's unlimited Mike braid doctor Mike Brazier specifically, we sort of started to put together this brainchild of asking the question, would hunters be interested in being that hunter scientist conservationists out there to be able to start, you know, tracking this and other other aspects of our wildlife, migratory behaviors and others. Would

Very cool.

That's awesome.

I know I participated in this. Okay, studied last year and first tell us what you do to participate?

Oh?

I signed up?

But what uh?

What the study is is you harvest a duck, a mallard, and then you cut a sample, like a quarter inch sample off their tongue, put in a little test tube, send it over to these guys down in Texas, and then they'll do all the DNA research and then after the fact, a couple of weeks later, they'll send you a certificate of what your duck is that you sent in.

As far as the species and the percentage of.

Just yeah, the percentage of wild versus game farm or if it's a hybrid, if it's like a black duck or a Mexican mallard or something like that.

So and you get that all that stuff is through that kit that doctor Fiel's talking to about. Yep.

So last year a cool thing was my buddy shot a bandoned mallard. So we found out where it was from, how old it was. But then I cut a little piece off and really dug into its background and figured out where this mallard came from. And he ended up being like seventy five percent wild mallard and then the other twenty five percent black ducks.

So and you killed that here in Montana he did, Yeah, okay killed.

So it is cool, Doctor Field.

Can you show us around the lab there where where you're doing your work and we're going to try to describe it. We've got to describe it to the folks or if you will, what you're showing us, because there's some folks will be listening to this that that can't see the video.

That's right.

And we did a little video test before the show today and the video was was crystal clear. It's a little clogged right now, it's a little fuzzy, but we can still you sound great, and we still get a general vibe of the lab fill. So if you just want to watch it around, that'd be great.

Yeah.

Sure, No, again, you know that little kit that Max was talking about, it'd be something like this.

It comes with some biles, instructions and so forth.

We've updated that, so those folks that will be lucky enough to participate, we'll get the updated version of that soon.

And so, yeah, your samples or any other the samples that we're working on.

Again, we work on waterfowl, but we do whatever the state, federal, or private individuals need work done, whether it's on other birds, bear whales. We've done just about all of that work. And so over here your samples would cut I'm in and the first thing we would do we would extract the DNA.

Good. Yeah. Hi, my name is Daniel Wilson. I'm a NSF technician working here at Doctor and Rescue's LAMB. So here I'm doing the first step of DNA extractions, where you separate the DNA from the matter. And this is like the most critical step to assessing any living organism stances. Yeah, and that, and then what we do is we walk over here.

We're gonna put it on what's known as a gael to see did we get any good duck DNA.

So hey, y'all, I'm Laura McFarlane. I'm a PHU student in Lovetski Lab. And here we're gonna be illuminating a gel to see if the DNA shows up and it's good for sequencing or not.

Lawrence from Baton Rouge. They have a terrible football team.

Oh, it's hard to see, but if you if you look in there, we're looking for these nice little bands telling us yes, there.

Is good DNA or no, there is not interesting. And now what's gonna happen.

Is that we'll move that DNA over anything good, uh, to our PCR station over here.

Hi, my name is Kim. I'm an NSF technician also working in the rescue lab. Right now, I'm at the PCR station where we amplify the DNA so that we can properly sequence and analyze its ancestry.

I thought this was cool.

Yeah, and then if the way we amplify them, we're gonna use those little bad boys right there that they're called thermocyclers. They essentially take care of temperature gradients in a specific way where we can amplify that DNA Basically, you know, who's your daddy kind of thing.

Uh uh, same exact thing, same exact process.

And then in the end we're gonna put them into long term storage in these minus eighties. So all the dut DNA participants, all your DNA is there for future generations to work on. I know you guys talks to Colossal and Revive and restore folks about biobak. This is essentially bio baking the genetic diversity of our waterfowl populations, right, so for future use if something terrible happens, we're gonna have the genetic diversity of redheads and canvas back and bluing,

Yeah, go ahead, go ahead. And then one last.

One, last station we're gonna is where we actually analyze your ancestry, and here's where we clean our DNA sequences. So then afterwards we can analyze it and to what we got. So yeah, the old A G C T craziness over there and there.

It is confusing that.

That's what happens in U, that that's that's what happens to your DNA. So we once we figure all that out, you get a certificate like Max set saying congratulations, you harvested a whatever.

So cool. Can you give me, off the top of your head the most unique discovery that you all have made in the lab associated with DNA?

Oh, the most unique? I mean I would say one hybrid?

Yeah, so we all know that Mallard's can agree with just about everything. We did pick up actually a couple now, Mallard wood duck. We also picked up Mallard musca v out of Florida. Really, those things are so genetically different. I didn't expect them to make any babies. Now the question is is that baby a mule or is it Bible? You know who knows, but we know that that does happen.

Now.

The other cool thing is that we now actually have some Brewer duck females.

Right.

The hardest thing for all of us is to identify hybrid females because they look the same, right. So the whole question is, oh, are all hybrid's males because females are are not vible or not. Now we know for sure they're they're out there and so and now we have techniques to actually be able to figure that out.

So cool that is. That's awesome, that's crazy good. Anything else for doctor Field, Doctor Field? Anything you want to cover in thirty seconds?

That U thirty seconds?

Yeah, I just want to say, go tigers.

Unless you anyways no, uh yeah, No. What I wanted to cover is I hope folks can get online really quickly.

Get on duck dna dot com.

Put your names in there so we can see, you know, participation keep going up. Make sure that this uh, this program goes on, uh you know, into the future.

Folks have the ability to participate.

We know, we had some folks come in and say, hey, my kid wouldn't go out hunting unless you could, you know, he she uh could put their duck into duck DNA.

So we know this is a great recruitment tool.

It doesn't have to be some you know, cool ducker and it could just be your first duck.

Which is awesome.

Yeah, I just send us in, send us whatever you want and we'll do we'll make it happen to.

The Oh no, that's okay, we're right at the end.

There's back, he's back.

I'm back.

Hey, video it looks better too.

I'm in and out. Also, if you're ever interested in learning about Waterfoley College, you management, we have an online course that we're gonna be teaching.

You can look at through UTEB that I'll be teaching that you can get a certificate or.

Credit or anything like that. So please look that up.

But otherwise, yeah, keep participating, and thank you for all the hunters that have and will participate. So thank you guys.

Thanks doctor Phil, thank you.

Thanks.

Yeah, I think our Phil put some links in the comments section, and I know you can find out more information on Ducks and Limited. There a big partner in this, so run over to their website and yeah, so apply and like I said, this is a super cool project to work on.

All the folks there in the lab. Thank you all very much.

Who thanks guys, Thanks guys, thank you see y'all.

All right, we're on to our next segment, which is the enddefensible law. What key were you in? Give me an R? All right, this is the indefensible law is where we pitch hunting and fishing laws that are indefensible. So we'll try to convince each other why it's a good idea. Anyway, I'll go first.

Let's here.

I got to thinking about it yesterday. I am not I know I'm gonna get some hate for this, but muscle loaders season, you got muscle loaders and then you got in line mussele loading rifle. Now, to me, that's not a mussle loader. A mussleloader I looked in the dictionary. Musselel loader is something that you load from the same end that the bullet comes out of. So my idea would be that if it's a if you have a mussleloader season, you should be shooting a mussle loader and inline rifles don't count.

Changed my mind, Max, I don't know much about it, So you're gonna talk to Seth about that.

I grew up in a state where flint Lock Hunton was king, so I'm there with you.

And that's a primitive weapon. Primitive now in Arkansas this year, in Arkansas this year they included straight walled cartridges in the mussloter season, and I thought, well, that's not a mussleloader. So what they did was it changed the name to alternative weapon. Which that's that's exactly what it is, an

There you go.

That's a good one, yeah, Maxie.

Oh so mine is going to be geared towards hunters that use dogs. So before hunting season, obviously you buy a license, right, my law is going to be I wanted to create a license option so you can buy a license for your dog. So you go on the field, whether you're up on hunting, duck hunting, square hunting, for you, you get a limit.

Right.

But with that, with that second license, your dog also gets all the hard work.

Now, in Arkansas years ago, if you had a hunting dog, he had to have a hunting license. Oh so you should have a limit to that. That that's going away. But my dad would be right here with you right now, because he was running like ten or fifteen water dogs at a time, you know, chasing coats, and he had to have an individual license for each one, so I can't get expensive. Yeah, but I see what you mean.

I mean, they're doing all the hard work, So why not read the roard a little bit?

So what do you think, Seth, Well, I think there's gonna be a lot of people in the comments arguing.

With populationamely a bunch of game warders.

Yeah, I do like the license for the dog idea. Yeah, Riley says that.

What does he say, dog? That's not what I want to depress with the god with having a license, I feel like people would take advantage of that with like ten dogs.

Yeah, taking this up so you could take some puppies out there dead ducks.

Yeah, maybe maybe we shouldn't do that. Well, it was good thought.

That's that is defensible there.

Mine is. Well. A couple was about a month ago. I was out fishing and came back to the boat ramp to pull my boat out of the water and head home, and some guy back down the ramp was taking his time slowly got his boat trailer and then it's a it's a one lane boat ramp. He decided to pull his boat up and stop about halfway up and continue to put all his rods away and put his make sure his boat was covered. And it should

Pull your boat out. Yeah, do it quick.

And there was there's about ten people behind me waiting.

Oh and this guy is watching now.

Yeah, no, he's taking his time.

He just didn't care.

I mean, he knows that y'all are there, and he's just doing his own.

Yeah, just doing his own thing. So you should get a ticket. You should get fined if you're blocking a boat ramp.

And other fishermen should be able to write those tickets.

There you go, Yeah, yeah, I can't. I can't argue with that. That just goes back to you can't legislate manners, and you ought to be able to, you know you did. You got to look out for everybody else. We're all in this thing together. And I'm sorry I didn't see. I really wasn't paying attention. So I'll try to be faster next time. I thought it looked like, yeah we should. Uh did anybody come in with hot tips or or indefensible laws in the comments section field.

I'm not getting any sort of original ones, just some some uh West Slope Outdoors says I'm with Seth.

Yeah, yeah, there we go. Yeah. Yeah.

Then we've got Michael Hutchison saying that Pennsylvania people shouldn't complain about bad drivers.

Okay, I'm just fine. It's New Jersey. That's ralph on drivers.

Yeah, I think you're right funny.

All right, what about any other listener feedback?

Let's see here, what do we got?

Uh? Kuran, we've got more demand for the Werner Bratzler. Where's a meat cutting test? They brought in mystery meat? Why not test it?

That's that's a tender one. It would have scored.

Well yeah, yeah, that would would have been nice. Let's see Brian's asking if Max has ever shot a legitimate triple.

Oh, that's a funny story. Yeah, one time I shot a triple and I told all my hunting buddies. I was like, yeah, that was a legitimate triple And there's just kind of a funny backstory and kind of had had to be their moment.

So yeah, no, one believed you. No one believed me.

Huh, yeah, we've We've got nick in here with which I don't think this is that indefensible Sunday hunting in Pa.

Oh, that should absolutely be a thing. It's crazy that it's not.

Yeah, it's all about opportunity and and folks have limited opportunities. And that's I mean, that's an extra day right there that you can get someone who doesn't normally get to go hunting or kids to get them in there. Yep, so that's yeah.

West Slope also says that inlines should be allowed during a rifle season only.

I can't argue. I can't. I'm with you, brother, yep. Yeah, anyway, all right, good deal.

Yeah.

I think that was a good show, guys.

A lot of fun, learned a lot of stuff that dunk DNA thing and see Jake and Riley up in New England. This good stuff, all right. Next week's Meat Eater Radio, Giannis, Spencer and Randa will be discussing Project Grizzly for the Meat Eater Movie Club. If you want to join in on their discussion, you can watch that documentary on YouTube for free. That's it for Live Today, Thank y'all. So much for joining.

I'll be here later, folks.