This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast.
You can't predict anything.
The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting for el, First Light has performance apparel to support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light dot com. F I R S T L I T E dot com. Okay, I'm on with Ryan Watson and Brian Hagrich who are in the Caribbean island nation of
Turks and Caicos, which is a British territory. You guys are currently out on bail and facing with the potential of a twelve year prison sentence for having been found to have some hunting ammunition in your respective duffel bags with no gun with them while on vacation with your families. And prior to this you two did not know each other.
No, no, not until what nine days ago? Around?
Yeah, nine days ago?
How in the you guys can decide however you want to start? Who wants to start? I guess whoever had this happen to him first? Like, how in the hell does this happen?
Well, that that would be me. So my family and I we came on vacation here February eighth. My wife, two kids, they were ages three and five at the time, came down here. It's a place we've traveled to for years. This was our fourth trip and we had a great time. I mean, this was a great time for our kids. A lot of great stuff, great memories, and then it all kind of went to hell when we came home.
I'll saying, and this is this is on the way home, the.
Way home, not on the way here, on the way home.
So you left, you depart when you can't left for your vacation. Where did you leave from?
We flew up Pittsburgh.
And uh obviously went through the TSA process in Pittsburgh.
Y Yeah, yeah, yes he did. I did. Yes.
Okay, So you checked a bag, you checked a Duffel bag from home, correct, not carried down but checked correct, got into the country, went through customs on the way in. Just Turks and Caicos.
That's the interesting part. That's yeah, they need not scan your bags upon entry into this country. Okay, the only country I've ever personally traveled to you that does not do.
That, but they scanned your bags on exit. Correct, So what happens then? Like you your vacation wraps up and you go to the airport and everything seems to be going fine. Then all of a sudden, it's not like how does this play out?
Yeah, we're about to hop on a flight, probably I don't know, half hour from boarding, and I hear my name paged overhead to come to the ticket counter and my wife stayed with our two kids. I walk up to the ticket counter and at first they weren't sure if you know what it was about or anything. This is just hang tight for a minute, and then they said, oh, you've been selected for a random bag check, which, okay,
that's fine, we've all been there at some point. Sent me over to a different area of the airport and walk in. There are two individuals there and this they had been selected for in a bag check. Do you consent to this? Is this your bag? And I said, yes it is, and absolutely I consent. So I don't know exactly how long it was that went by, but it seemed like a very long time. And their search and they're pulling out my kid's puddle jumper, their floating sunscreen,
just everything imaginable and they're looking and they're looking. And then after I would have to guess it was probably eight nine minutes, they pull up ammunition and the guy had the biggest smile on his face. It was like he just won the lottery and just looked at it and he said, is this yours? And it did a double take and it quickly became recognizable to me that, yeah, this is my ammunition I had back home, purchased legally in the US.
What was the animal six or five PRC.
And from there then it just seemed like there was a whole swarm of people that kind of ensued. People were on the phone, and I was just lost. I said, you know, I figured, okay, you know that's you can take the ammunition. You know, deal with what we need to deal with. And I fully expected at that point to still board the flight with my family. And as time went on it went on, it became more and
more apparent that that probably wasn't going to happen. And then two police officers arrived and they were all but ready to take me off too, I presume the police station or investigation And I said, wait, guys like I have. You know, my wife and my two kids are about to hop on a plane. You know, they need to know what's going on here, and they did not in
the worst kind of way. Even when to let them know what was happening anything, I had to literally plead with them to Finally where they went and got my wife. They brought her and my children over, brought us into a small room, wouldn't let the kids in, made them stand outside, and gave us, I don't know, a minute or two together where I gave her the key to the car, a few other things, and off they went. At that point, I still, you know, said hey, you know,
I'll hop on the next flight. I'll see you at home tomorrow and we'll be in touch. And as things progressed over, you know, they escorted me to the police car, different things that became apparent that I was not seeing them tomorrow.
Man, I got I got a million questions. Well, let's let's hear the other story from up top, and then we'll come back in with a couple follow up questions.
I'm Rian Watson from Oklahoma. Two buddies of mine, we were all turning forty within a few weeks of each other. Our wives had gotten together and thought, man, let's plan a fortieth birthday forum. We started kicking around a bunch of different destinations, and the other two couples wanted to come to Turks and Caicos. My wife and I did not, which is kind of the salt in this whole thing. But yeah, so we we agreed. We're like, all right,
let's go, we'll go. We come here April seventh and with two other couples, have a great time, are leaving to go home in April twelfth. I have a rolling Duffel bag that I use, like on the weekends and such. We grabbed it the very last second when we left for the airport from Oklahoma City, just because my wife's bag felt a little heavy and she was like, we might need a place to throw extra stuff. It's like, all right, cool, I'll grab that bag, opened it up,
looked inside, gave a little shake. Nothing, So we started loading it up. Off we go. But anyways, we're on our way home. We are. It's a madhouse at the airport because a flight had been canceled. We had hired this skypass company that basically like fast traction through security, so we were cutting through. Some families are pissed that we're cutting through this security line, and so there's like a whole game of like where there's shuffling bins and such.
And you know, I'm a pretty passive guy at first glance, and so I'm like, all right, whatever, like with my wife and I get separated. I ended up going through first. I walked through nothing and like, no issue. I walk into the duty free shop and there's a glass wall and I looked through and I see my wife standing there waiting on the bag. And so I walked back and I'm like, what do you wait on? Babcon cheese? Like, oh,
your duffel bag still, like it's getting inspected, okay. So we had on the way back, we had taken her makeup bag and such out of her out of her luggage to make room for a bottle of wine, and so I threw that in my duffel bag. They are starting to rip through all that stuff, and I'm thinking, oh, it's she's got liquid in there, Like that's not a big deal. Like, and you know, my buddy's are ribbing me. They're like, oh what you got in there? And we're
all laughing. I'm sure at some point. I don't know if the security camera would be like it is, like we're laughing and ribbing and still having a good time, and they're I mean, they're searching like crazy through this bag, really looking for They take everything out, run everything through it, and then they run the bag through another time or two, and I mean they're searching like crazy, and damn near just assemble the bag. Next thing, you know, the customs
agent like pulls out like a bag they head. My wife initially thought it was like the little locks that they sometimes conclude whenever you buy luggage, and she was like, was that the little locks? I was like, I don't know, and then she turned back around. She held it up after they'd like gone and like taken photos with it, which was kind of strange because it seemed like they
were like taking selfies with it. But they turn around they show it to me and I was like, shit, like I realize exactly what that is, you know, like that's the Ammo that I buy reloaded Ammo this place in Oklahoma City, and I was like, that's a little baggie of sixty five preed more than I buy, like when I go hunting and like I'm like, oh shit. The lady walks over and I'm like, hey, I'm so sorry, Like I don't need it. It's only like a couple of rounds. It looks like in there. I was like,
you can just toss it. We'll be on our way. She's like no, she said, well here, you got to talk to the police officer before you go. And I'm like, all right, cool guy. The customs guy walks by and he's like it happens all the time. Are our laws just say that you have to talk to a police officer And he's like, you American hunters do this all the time. I'm all right, whatever, Like nothing seems like. I'm thinking I'm gonna get like a verbal reprimand we
wait there forever. Twenty minutes pass by. Finally guy walks over and playing clothes and he's like, hey, let me like he starts shuffling through my bag. He said, let me see your passport. He looks at it and he's like, hey, I just want you to know you're not going to make that flight, and he like hands it back to me like the way he did it. I was like, this guy's trying to be tough, you know, he's trying
to be intimidating, and I was like okay. So I was like, hey, I'm sorry, we'll probably gonna have to catch the next flight. We walk outside because both my wife and I. Next thing, you know, unmarked carr walks like pulls up. They jump out, They put us in the car. We don't fully understand what's going on. They take us to a kind of an unmarked building where they take us in a room and tearorgate us and and I'm you know, I'm still not like fully comprehending.
I'm like, all right, I'm about to pay a fine, you know, Like this is.
You know, when they're interrogating you, what is the line of questioning.
Do you are you licensed to carry such AMMO? And I'm like where I'm from, you don't have to have a license to have AMMO. Like I was like, I don't understand what you're talking about, Like there's not a firearm associated with that AMMO. And they're like are you a hunter? And I'm like yes, and can you prove it? And I'm like, I guess I got a bunch of gripping grins that I can show you. Like and so I'm like pulling out my phone and they're i mean
asking a litany of questions. It was a you know, and I was like, hey, I was like, can we call my parents to let them know that we're going to be late because they're watching our kids. And they were like, you don't get it, like you're both going to be arrested and you're both going to jail or going to prison for twelve years. And at which point my wife was like, I mean pleaded, like we have children, and she broke down, and I mean I quickly broke down as well, because I was like, it was very
apparent at that point that they weren't joking anymore. At first, I thought it was an intimidation tactic.
Yeah yeah, and they're.
Like, no, you're gonna be taken to jail tonight. And the thing that got me I never said this yet, but my wife asked, am I going to be cold? And as a husband who's always considered myself a protector, I was like, I'm not letting this happen. Like I was like, she's not going in that damn jail. And so I started pushing back. I'm like, look, there's got to be another way, Like like what like, you're not serious that you're gonna take us both to jail with
kids at home. Finally they came back there like we're going to offer you a police bail, but you need to find a surety. And I'm like, I've never been I've never been arrested in my life. I don't know what that is. Like. You need to find a Turk Islander, like a local native that's willing to put up an asset equivalent to your bail.
I'm like, I don't want to bail.
Is and he's like, it'll be about ten thousand bucks. And I'm like, so I need to find a local that'll put up ten thousand bucks for me. And I was like, I've been here on a five day vacation and I'm like texting my friend. I stuck my phone in and so I was texting my buddies that we were traveling with, and they're like, oh, we're going to text Reuben, our driver. So the guy that had we'd hired to drive us around the whole week, bless his
little heart, man, he shows up. He puts the title to his car up as sure A kidding me no, And so that my wife and I can be out on bail throughout the weekend and kind of get our feet underneath us and figure out what we had to rental hotel room last second, call my parents. I'm like, this is like serious. So they fly down that sun That was Friday. They fly down that Sunday. That Monday, we're supposed to go back in give a recorded interview where I say, my bag, it's the bag that I
travel with. Those are the bullets that I use for hunting. No idea how they ended up there, but so we do that mm hmm, and they come out they're not they're just not decided on whether whether or not they're going to charge both my wife Valerie or not. And so they tell my attorney they're like, proba, we just don't know. We haven't made up her mind yet. We're going to keep them remanded to the Islands on bail.
They have to post it again. So we had the driver come back put the title of his car up again, and they kept us there for another for another week. Essentially, I went back this past Monday. They charged me. They dropped the charges of my wife. She got her passport and I told her it's like immediately go get on a plane and get off this island. I went to jail. I had kind of no idea what was going on in the outside world. I was so here, you have to go to Supreme Court in order to get bail
under the ammunitions or fire firearms charge. So it took us a while to get the Supreme Court. So I was there on Wednesday where they late Wednesday afternoon they finally approved my bail. Sure how to get surity again, which we knew our attorney kind of warned us. We put the feelers out and a guy put up the title of his restaurant. God I had never met before. I went and met him, had a beer with him, and I was like, I'm in a bad situation, dude, and he was like, I've heard you're a good person
with a really good heart. Like I'm willing to, you know, take a chance and just you know, put this up for you. And I was like, man, I don't know how to thank you, like and so he put his already for me. And I got out on bail on Wednesday, and you know, here we are. It's been wild.
What is their attitude about the fact that you're trying, that you're on your way out. So presumably if you were importing ammunition, you'd be looking for it on the way in, but you're you're leaving with it. Does that enter the conversation at all? Or is that for a later date when you have a trial.
I mean, it's our conversation here, we we.
I mean, you can't not but just sit there and rack your brain. I mean I've had I had had conversations with police officers while I was being transported, you know, in the back of the car, shackled, and they're like, you know, we don't agree with this, right, And I'm like, hard to see it from my end, you know, And they're like and I'm like, look, I was like, charge me the like set a record for the fine that
you charge somebody. I was like, I'll pay for the X rays sat on the way in so that you can actually thwart the gun crime that you're trying to like get rid of, Like I'll pay for it, like trust me, Like I'm good for it. But doing this like arresting two dads that hunt on the weekends, like it does nothing for your crime. And so yeah, I mean and they, you know, the police officers, you know, off the record, and are like, yeah, we can agree more, but.
And what is this have you heard from the State Department, the US State Department about like, uh, are they taking a position on this or are they are they trying to negotiate on your behalf or making any demands that that these two people who are obviously innocent of any kind of attempted gun crime are being harassed with this potential twelve year prison sentence. This isn't on their radar in some ways.
There's actually a third noil too, so we're just we're not too I heard about that potentially a fourth we're not sure of yet.
When I was being interrogated, they brought in a mid to late twenties presumably. I thought she was an American girl. I've since reached out to the embassy a number of times because I'm concerned about her, because this is hell right, and I mean, the fact that we've been able to link up and kind of support each other is great, and I'm like, I want to help the girl out if I can. I don't know where she is. I pressed the State Press the embassy. I got a call
back that they're doing an investigation. They do admit that they took a young female into custody, but they think that she might not be of American descent.
Well, an article just came out about another I just remember it was a male who also had learning ammunition. So so the state So the State Department is not making you any they're not making you any promises. I mean, it just seems to me that it just seems ridiculous that this could be going on for this long.
I've been here for almost eighty days. I mean, if that's any indication.
And what what are your conversations with the with the US government.
So the State Department, We've not engaged directly with them. It's been predominantly through Senator Wayne Line for well, Mark Wayne Mark, Mark Wayne mall and I'm sorry. And the US Embassy in Nassau.
Yeah, Mark wwyn Willins from from Oklahoma has been on it. Literally he was informed while my wife and I were still being interrogated because his his niece and nephew go to the school. My wife teaches a little Christian school there. I say, his niece and nephew go to that school, and my wife had texted her principal and so Mark Wayne Mullins was already in touch with the embassy before we were ever out of the investigation. So he's been on it from the jump and has been just an
absolute bulldog about it. I've got all the faith in the world and him, I just think that you know, he's you know, these things take time, and so hit him and Governor Stead, Senator Langford as well from Oklahoma. You know, they've both absolutely taken Brian under their wing and just given him, I mean, Mark Waynemullins.
Text he called me, texted me. I mean, I can't tell you how many times at this point and what state?
What state are you from, Brian, Pennsylvania? Okay? And you've been in church with elected officials in Pennsylvania.
I have for quite some time. Yes, nothing Unfortunately, nothing has happened until Ryde here was arrested as well. And still from from my perspective, at a senator, at a governor level, there's been no contact whatsoever. But you're getting it.
You're getting you're getting it from Oklahoma now, though.
I certainly am. It's been phenomenal.
Man. I That's what blows my mind here, man is uh. I mean, I have like an automatic sympathy for you as just like a couple of hunters, and and I go hunting, I travel with my family. I'm always hounding on my thirteen year old, fourteen year old boy to you know, be careful about straight twenty two shells. When this first came out, my first caught wind of this
before I even knew how he's speaking to you. I sent him an article about this, saying, this is why I'm always on your case about having a twenty two shell in your pocket. Right, but to me, to have it be that you have no way to fire these rounds. This is not ammunition for a gun that would be even remotely available.
You are.
Leaving with it, not bringing it in. You are dealing in like these are very small quantities of ammo. You're
not a drug runner, You're headed home. It's ridiculous, yeah, that you could be going through this, And it also seems to me a little bit ridiculous that we're not able to exert more that are, you know, not that they're not doing it, but I would just imagine that there would be a full court press on the on behalf of the US government about having a couple of our citizens wrongfully detained over something that's just so obviously ridiculous.
Yeah. I think it's interesting too, because the charge is actually possession of ammunition and had nothing to do with the fact that we were in here. It's just possession. And so in the United States, possessing ammunition is all right, right, and so it is. It's just strange, you know, there's it just seems like there's such a more sensible way to deal with this, you know, any other country. It's a fine, any other sovereign country to our knowledge, and all.
These these islands, all these scribbing islands that it's dealt with in a much different way.
Yeah.
Well, listen, man, intent matters. I mean, of course, of course, I'm sure you learned your lesson. Of course it shouldn't have happened. Of course, there's there's some blame that you got to feel on your own end for I mean, you screwed up. But like intent matters, there's there's clearly obviously no intent. There's no intent to like be importing, distributing anything ammunition. I understand the charge is possession, but but it's uh, you know, like I said, man, I'll
say it for the fourth time. Intent matters, and there's no intent to do anything wrong here. It just it really feels to me like a I mean one, it's a real warning to other hunters and listen, man, I'll come out and say, this could happen to anybody. It happened to me. It happened to me in the Anchorage airport where I was walking on and we had been Ptarmigan hunting and I had a couple game twelve gauge game loads in a backpack. Right, it can happen to anyone.
It's happened to many, and many of my friends. With the fact that it could land you in a situation like this, with the with the stress of this potential long term prison sentence, I mean, I feel horrible for you guys.
Man, it's I mean for me, it's not a nightmare that is just you don't wake up from it's every single day you think, Okay, I'll wake up and I'll be at home.
And here I am so far as you guys know, what what is the next step you have a you have a A is it does it go to a jury trial? Like like when when do you next interact with the authorities?
So I'm I'm next up to bats. I have my hearing on Friday, May of the third. So we're only a few days away from that. And essentially, you know, my hearing paves the way for for Ryan, for Tyler, and anybody else that's you know, either here now that
we don't know about or others in the future. There was a Supreme Court ruling that came out in February this year that I won't say it didn't change the laws, but it did clarified in their mind what, you know, how this can be dealt with, And essentially it's it's a mine and it's a mandatory jail sentence.
Mandatory mandatory.
Yes, now they can handle that in a number of different ways. The first key component is they have to find what they consider exceptional circumstances, and that entails three different factors. One, it's your prior history. Two was their intent, and then the third factor is, you know, does the whatever the repercussions are, does it deter others from committing a similar same crime. So that's the first hurdle. Then the second hurdle is the jail time, and that's the
I'll say, essentially the wild card. Because in the past, I think there were five last year, five cases last year. There are now four this year that, you know, the five from last year, they did find exceptional circumstances. But the last individual, unfortunately, he was sentenced eight months in.
Prison here and what had that the person that did eight months in prison? What had he done?
Again? Similar but you know, slightly different. His was I believe nine millimeter ammunition. I'm not sure what type of bag it was. I don't know.
I think it was a magazine. I think it was a loaded magazine.
Yeah, but no, but no pistol.
No, no firearm.
Now, there have been two other cases where there were firearms prior to him, and essentially the individuals, I appears they were misled by either the airlines whomever they spoke with that they were allowed to bring them here, but upon exiting again were found with handguns and ammunition and they both were able to They stayed here for quite a while again, but they paid a fine and went home.
And I understand you guys have I don't know if it's one or two. You guys have a GoFundMe site set up for for folks who feel inclined to help you out. Is that true?
Yeah, my sister set one up for us. That was done while I was in jail, and so I have no idea, to be honest with you, I've I've never even clicked on the link. I've some people have shared it with me, like somebody saying, oh my gosh, Donald Trump Junior shared your I'm uncomfortable with it. Man, as somebody that's a provider for you're you know, that's always considered myself as a provider for my family, and I
wanted to help take care of others. To be in a situation where you feel like you may need help, is it's emasculating in a way, like it's just it's hard to it's hard. It's something that's hard to wear. I don't know how. I don't know how to explain it.
I'm understood, understood.
And completely grateful for everybody. And don't get me wrong, this is this to very easily financially, like just ankrupt anybody. And we were, you know, high on the hog. I mean, we we work hard and you know we do you know, okay, but like we're not. We weren't equipped to handle this, you know. I mean, it's damn expensive. And so my
sister she put that together. You know, my wife and I are both huge in our faith, and we want to be servants of the Lord, and so we've committed that, like, hey, we're going to use this to help our situation, but we want to help others as well. And so you know, we're going to see what we can do to help Tyler get bail. He's the one that's still in Grand Turk prison. We want to help Brian and his family
as best we can. I mean, I don't want to dissuade anybody from doing their own or whatever, and fully encourage people to go do that, but I also want people to know that we're not I mean, I just want to be home, like with your kids, Like I don't. I'd give it all right now, I promise. I don't know what's in there, but I checked to whoever for it so that we all three can go home. Yeah.
Man, I'd like to see you guys come home, Like I said, it just it really, uh man. I got empathy for you, but also just an awareness of how something like this could happen to anyone. And uh Ryan Watson, Brian Hagrich. I'm gonna let you guys go, but man, we're all gonna be watching.
Uh A promise on air. I will be recorded.
This goes for both of us.
By the way, if we get locked up for twelve years, you have to take our boys hunting.
On promise right now.
I'm gonna send you a picture of my boy from this this past winter, the first time shooting just be begun the weekend before.
I saw I saw one of you guys had I saw one of you guys had a boy that got a couple of turkeys this spring.
Certain that was the weekend before we came here.
Yeah, well, if it comes down to that, don't worry. I'll uh, I will personally take them all out hunting. I'll find some people to take them out hunting as well. And let's hope it doesn't come to that. And also,
listeners out there, man, this could happen to anybody. If you guys live in Pennsylvania or Oklahoma, you want to call your elected officials and try to lean on them a little bit to help get these guys back home for something that you know, it's just not something that someone should be suffering through, for a case of just an honest mistake made in the wrong place. All right, guys, best of luck. We're gonna keep following up. Jordan Sillers has a piece up on the meeater dot com about
you guys. I'm sure he'll continue to track the story. And man, I just want to wish you guys the best best of luck. There's anything we can do, let us know. And uh, like I said, the minute I saw that story, I just got a sink and feeling because how like I said, it could happen to anybody.
Yes, sir, Yeah, appreciate the time you guys.
Take care you tooks, best luck,