Ep. 482: Flinging Arrows with Levi Morgan

This is the meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast, you can't predict anything. The meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting for el, First Light has performance apparel to support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light dot com. F I R S T L I t E dot com. All rightybody, welcome to the

I guess so well.

It's not even a debatable point right now.

I mean, it depends on who you ask. If you ask some of my competitors, they'd probably argue that, but but you beat them sometimes.

Listen. It's just we're just gonna run with this. It's the best impounding the table, the best archer in the world is here. Who I just found out I don't know till this morning that Levi Morgan's wife is a competitive archer and they shot. They played against each other at when they were nine. Yeah, she wouldn't give them the time of day.

No, she wouldn't. I even called one of the organizations and like tried to get her number, and they wouldn't give it to me. So then, uh, but when I when I I quit in high school and when I came back in two thousand and six, she was the reigning women's pro World champion at the time. What mm hmm. So then we started dating after that, But then you finally won her heart finally. Uh, she's still in it now.

God, and then she just kind of things got a little tough.

She just wanted to be mom.

So you guys got four kids, four Yeah, we're gonna dig it into all that. We're gonna dig into what it takes to be the best archer in the world. And also the thing I'm interested is how that translates to hitting white tails.

Okay, it's probably a big difference. There's a big, big difference.

Yeah, No, I've heard you talk about. We're gonna talk about that also, Nick Pinazota, am I saying this right? Penizada? That's Italian? Italian? Yes, good, we're brothers from the National Deer Association, who you guys have heard us talk about handful of times. He's also here. He's gonna talk about an upcoming film that his organization did with various state wildlife agencies about white tail deer. White tail deer Management hit us with a couple points about that film.

Yeah, so it's nothing like this has ever really been done. A lot of people take whitetail deer and deer hunting for granted, and the reality is there are a lot of challenges and when you look at the amount of money that deer generate for all species conservation, even threatening endangered species, it's huge. The eight out of ten people that buy a hunting license hunt deer. The next closest is turkey, like three out of ten.

Oh wow.

Yeah, so when you add turkey, elk, you know, another species, it's still not half a white tail. So yeah, the film seeks to get this in front of people. Deer hunters, first of all, who have most of them have no idea about that. But you know, suburbanites too, people that care about any wildlife need to understand that if it weren't for deer, the management of those species would be in trouble.

Now, you know Jim half a Finger.

Oh, we just spend some time with him in Calgary this week.

Yep, he's going to write a thing about him. I'm in. Uh Dirk and Pat Dirk and the white Tail writer are insistent that you now and then at least nod towards saying white tailed deer not white tails. White tails is a colloquialism. It's the it's the white tailed deer. Do you really sound like you know what you're talking about when you run around saying I like to hunt white tailed deer.

My wife just that's how he likes it A hard time about that exact thing before I left.

So yes, and you got to put the hyphen in there. I do it with a pause. The White Tailed Deer Live Tour, I'm pitching. I'll just pitching uh Levitt Morgan on our live tour date that we have coming up in Uh, you're closer to Pittsburgh, right, Yeah, in Pittsburgh and Chester. If I'm understanding right, you're in for all shows.

I just uh, just as of this morning, chatted with Katie. You confirmed and I confirmed.

So our live tour has mainly become a Chester concert. I already the minute Chester when I found out that you were gonna be able to open at all the shows and play music at all the live shows. My first call he didn't pick up the phone, was the Hunter Spencer, because I want him to make a Chester concert t shirt like the old style that has the dates listed on the back.

Wow, that's big, So.

You gotta get we need it. Can you take a picture of him with his glasses on? Something with his lave glasses. This can be the this is gonna be your concert shirt.

Badass, be emblazoned on the side of the tour bus.

If he can have do you have your guitar? If you can hold your guitar and have those those rubber goggles on, it'd be a great concert.

T shirt standing next to this thing.

Chester. So December sixth to seventeen is the live show we're doing. This is the order of dates. Now we take a day off here and there. I wish I had it all lined up up. Denver is December sixth, Kansas City is December seven, Pearl Harbor Anniversary, but that's nothing to do with the show. Davenport, Iowa. Then we go on to Kalamazoo, Michigan. Oh, this is in order. This is the most messed up list I've ever seen in my life. Where's Detroit?

I put et cetera?

Come on, this is like I supposed to announce a tour with et cetera. This is only eight. You quit at like one. There's there's five six. Et Cetera is too the crin shows not to include.

Okay, what what are we missing there? There's the Pittsburgh there's.

No there's no show in Illinois.

I can name it.

You can find all of these on the me dot com.

Right now, we've got Denver in the Mission ball room.

Great, this is what I'm talking Gotchester.

We got Kansas City at the Folly Theater December.

That's December seventh, December.

Sixth, December ninth at the Capitol Theater in Davenport. Okay, we've got them.

Great job.

Then Kalamazoo December tenth State Theater at the Kalamazoo State Theater.

We did State Theater before, and I've been there and as I told the story many times, I've been there before and I saw I think he's passed away. This would be a good person for dead or Alive. Dylan died or is he not dead, Bob Dylton, he's alive, that'd be a great person for the game Dead or Alive. I saw Bob Dylan there at the State Theater WOW a long time ago, and then we did a we did a live show there years ago. In twenty nineteen. We did a live show there.

It's a I think it's a pretty interesting great theater. It was kind of like, I don't know, it's all decorated up. It's the one that I'm thinking.

Of if I had more time, I tell you a good story about something to happen at that theater with my late friend Eric Kern.

Go on December eleventh, Detroit at the Royal Oak Music Theater in Michigan. There and then we've got Cleveland on December thirteenth.

You know who's going to join us for the Cleveland show. I'm lining up like local guests. That's why I'm pitching Levi Morgan on it for the ones you haven't got to yet. Yeah, you know who we got for who I was just talking to for the to see if he'll come to the Cleveland show.

I think I've got a guess, A good guess who we got weights and fish the Walleye got.

Yeah, ye, I'm gonna I might bring him his own jersey and he can put his own jersey on. Jason Fisher. I was pitching it. I was pitching him on this idea of the other day. So I think hopefully we get him at the Cleveland show.

That'd be awesome.

Kevin Murphy, World's greatest small game hunter. He wants he wants to throw in on Cleveland, so he'll be on stage at Cleveland.

Ok.

Great, Yeah, are we going to get an extra day in there to actually fish.

Or I have to look at the layout. Then keep going on?

All right, Pittsburgh. That is December.

Fourteenth, what's Cleveland? What day is Cleveland? Chess has got those cheap rubber for you people listening. Chess has got those cheap rubber safety glasses because he's gonna tell us, He's gonna tell us just how tender a white tail fawn is everybody knows they're tender, but how tender.

We're going to tell you that's Cleveland is December thirteenth at the Agora Theater. And then what's the next day, December fourteenth.

And that is there's no there's no day to walleye fish gotcha. We'd have to get up early in the morning and fish Walleyes. We'll figure it out.

December fourteenth, we're in one Hall, Pennsylvania.

That's the Greater Philadelphia area. No, the Greater Pittsburgh are that's the Greater Pittsburgh area. Mess that up every time, and that's when I'm trying to That's when we're trying to get Levi Morgan to come on stage and shoot his bow. You know, Nugent got in trouble for that.

You're kidding me, No, but we'll see you.

But well, we'll talk about whether or not. We'll have various audience members hold up little targets and LEVI I'll shoot those targets. So we have to check insurance adjusters. Or maybe Chester could do like an apple on his head. We'll figure it out.

Keep going December fifteenth in Philadelphia at the Kenswick Theater that's in Glenn'side, Pennsylvania, December fifteenth.

And when the show opens, everybody will come in. The show's gonna open. The show's gonna with some music by Chester, and then we'll get the show started.

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what kind of music I should play.

I'm gonna be very heavily involved in that decision. Speaking of live shows, this is the most important one I want, like at least like consulting on it.

Sure, I've got I've got some good ideas for specific cities.

Oh yeah, that's is Clay going to join on stage? Because after that thing you posted it on instag?

Yeah, do you think you can maybe play with Clay a little bit, because Clay's coming to show will be there forever like like, uh, Chester will be there for every show. Yannis is there for every show. We're lining up Gas. We got Jordan Budd coming to a show. I'm I'm gonna start working phones. Kevin Murphy's throwing down on two shows he's coming to, so he'll be on stage for a couple of shows. The shows occur in sections. All shows will have a trivia component for audience, give

So Phil's a thespian, incredibly amateur. Hey, I just do it for fun.

Well no I did, But I learned the other day that Phil makes a little jingle on this stuff occasionally. Yeah. Yeah, he's a he's a he's a like a what's what's what sits between amateur and pro semi pro or semi amateur. He's a semi pro thespian. Yeah, yeah, that's right. I'm doing a little the little play. This just in three weeks.

Three weeks.

Yeah, uh, so you guys are doing Phil's doing a comedy.

Yeah.

Phil's always involved in some in community theater of some sort. Is it fair to call it community theater.

I'd say, like local, yeah, community. Yeah, there's a bunch of different things. I mean I just started doing it last year just for fun, because my kid's getting into theater. So I auditioned with him kind of to make him feel comfortable. That wasn't the first thing you did well since college? Yeah, first thing in like ten years.

Yeah, but I'm talking about the casts over. You buy a ticket and go down. I mean it's a professional production. Yeah sure, yeah, Yeah, I buy a ticket. They're going to see your kids.

Like, there are ushers, you can buy some play, you can buy some house wine in the lobby.

Drake wine. You gotta buy. You gotta pay to see him. So Phil's doing this, Yeah, and he's doing that right now. He's doing a comedy. Yeahs Ellen Theater. And we did a live show at the Ellen Theater before.

Yeah, I was not there. I think I was before I started working here.

But so Phil's doing this. If you're a team, I get a nineteen thirty slapstick comedy.

Yeah, it's called you Can't Take It with You. It's a great cast. Yeah, I mean, And then also met our tickets on sale? Yeah, tickets are on sale.

And when when are the shows? It's the end of October.

Starts October twentieth and runs for two weekends. This information applies for people who live in Bozeman and are into community theater. So no, I'm not sure the percentage of your audience.

What I like about is this is that time of year and when you got like a lot of rotten tomatoes in your garden, you know, Oh that seasons winding down. I got one on, I got one, I got setting off to the side for Phil. I didn't bring down down on the show. No, it'd be good. How much are there still tickets left? How much our tickets? Phil?

Yeah, I think tickets started around either like upper twenties, early thirties. That's not how you talk about prices, low thirties, not talking about the year.

You know, I'm talking about Chester. Now you're talking about the Uh yeah, so go go down in support Phil. When Phil steps out, it's a comedy, so I think you could probably applaud and Phil steps out.

No, yeah, please please do. I desperately need it because I definitely don't get that attention around this office.

What were you? What were you? What's your costume?

Oh?

I took a buttoned up suit. I think my character comes home from like a ballet. So we're all we're dressed up to the nines.

And people will recognize you. I think so you will.

I'm not wearing a masker deformed like I'm not playing John Merrick or anything.

Got it? So go support Phil? Uh here's a topic meet either podcast saves lives. Now, this is incredible.

We haven't hit this in a while. We haven't saved a life in a while.

But no, but we don't know. We should have like a thing where we track how many lives we saved, because what was another life? We saved tourniquets, multiple tournique because we had we had an emergency room doctor on just imploring people to carry tourniquets. And then we did the Campfire Story's close calls about tourniquets and and a number of people wrote in either that they it informed how they applied tourniquets or at least they got a tourniquet.

Was the Great Toilet Rescue, an American Hero, a stuck man, and something something I forgot the rest of that.

We had some folks on the show who had rescued a man from a toilet vault where he climbed down there to get his phone out and got stuck. This led to a lot of people writing in about other situations where people have gone into toilet vaults at boat launches and got stuck in the vault. A state trooper from Michigan wrote.

In, No, but this was recent because that episode was like.

No, no, this is fresh news. This is like hot news. This is hot news.

It's so baffling to me.

Well, okay, I am a trooper with Michigan State Police. Here's so if you get pulled over Michigan for speed, and it's probably this guy. Uh, he says. Today a d NR officer, my sergeant, and I were dispatched to a boat launch within my post area. So they get an emergency call from a boat launch. He his sergeant and a d NR officer aka game Ward and get dispass. It was reported. This is him telling the story. It was reported that someone was yelling for help one of

So I just googled.

An Apple watch cost between like three hundred and six hundred dollars, Like, you could not pay me that much to touch that blue goo?

No, I would, It's not just blue goop.

Well, you know that's what everything's swimming in. Like there.

You don't have.

Children, no, your your relationship with your relationship with fecal matter changes so much kids, And.

I've never changed a diaper. I have a niece.

It goes from like it just it goes from something that's just a no go to being like it's not pleasant. But I mean it's not the end of the world. It's kind of the attitude you get. I would.

I think it's different with your own kids, though, you learn how.

To walk through your house like this to the bathroom, Yeah, don't touch anything.

I feel like adult fecal matter has to be different then like children it's different.

Oh yeah.

But when I hear someone getting mauled, or when I hear someone getting gored by a buffalo in the park, I'm like, yeah, I see that. When I hear someone get stuck in the toilet vaul because their phone, I'm like, yeah, I can see that. But could just be it's not It's not the cost, it's the inconvenience.

If you're on the road, what does your Apple watch even do that you need to survive?

Like, but I think of it as her phone.

I think I think we should also just point out that the Michigan State Police put out a news release. M hm, you know, so, I guess this gets This goes out to all uh to all state police and detailing the situation. But then just at the end, there's another public service announce announcement. If you lose an item in an outhouse toilet, do not attempt to venture inside

Yeah, and there's a there's a public safety element to this too, because the guy that got rescued from the one here in Montana right into the river. First stop, she.

Went right into the river too. Oh this this news release says that she was when she was lifted out with a strap, she went right into the river to wash herself off.

That's right, head.

And if you're on a boat, you maybe have a fishing pole, Like, could you get a little more inventive than just sticking your body down?

I think, well, the guy that did it, the guy that got stuck here, was just traveling and just pulled into the you know, wasn't fishing Okay, Ready, Chester. Ready, Okay, Chester is going to so this is the thing we've been messing with for a long time. Karin and I actually feel bad. Box. We wasted. Now let's just say wasted.

We've got a yearling white tail, right Karinn yep, and Karinn seared this up last night, just got the pan real hot, seared it on each side evenly, and we're looking at it. About a rare cut, you know, hold it up, yep. It's about rare and the way you do it is you take We're going to take four core samples here that I board out with this here a little contraption so.

If you're watching online you'll be able to see the core amply. If not, it's like like a core exactly. It's like a little stainless steel hole cutter.

Yep, and I cut the meat. I cut an inch off of this little piece here, and I made these core samples, and I went with the grain. I cut with the grains. They're all consistent and that's.

So it goes into the shear. To measure its tenderness, it'll be cutting.

Cross grain against the grain, which is important. And this thing measures in kilograms of force, which is an international standard for tests and how tender meat is. So we're gonna throw it in there and we're gonna do four I don't know, maybe three. There's three good cores here. We'll do three tests forced tests, and then we'll get you know, will average these out and we'll get how actual tender this meat is.

Got it. What's interesting about this is one of the things we're going to cover today is a letter just went out from the Michigan DNR basically begging deer hunters to kill dose the dough. I can't believe this. The dough harvest in Michigan is actually down the dough. When I was a kid growing up Michigan, if you drew a dough tag, you were so you would like apply for dough tags and wait in the like licking your

It's a national problem. Yeah, we put an article just yesterday talking nationally about that issue, people not shooting enough dose. We're both Levi I and both from Pennsylvania. We had the same system you put in for a dough tag. Maybe you got one, maybe you didn't. Now you can get six, and we know that most hunters won't even shoot one. And so we're seeing that trend nationally where the buck harvest is actually equal to or even higher than the alis harvest.

YEP.

And it's a problem.

I don't I don't what do you what do you think it is.

I think it's a lot of things. I think you have more people really prioritizing mature bucks, which is, you know, good from the recreational end of things. But what happens is they're they're sitting there making a judgment, Well, I'd really like to fill this dough tag. But if I shoot that dough is Buckham after right behind her? Am I going to ruin that?

Ye?

And then they say things like, well, I'm gonna do it in the late season. Well, then the late season comes and everybody's burned out and nobody does it.

But my friends are serious about Like friends of mine that are serious about land management on their properties, they hunt during the rut, they hunt bucks. Later, they get serious about dough killing. You know, my buddy Doug Dirnell, they kill thirty dolls a year. I got another friend they kill twenty plus dos a year off their property. I got a friend in Texas they kill hundreds of

They're educated managers, and I think it's the difference uneducated managers prioritize that buck so much that they don't understand that they're actually hurting their chances at a mature buck by not shooting dose.

You know that's funny. Like this friend of mine in Texas, he's in an area there's no egg Okay, so it's not it's not like a egg issue. It's not protecting alfalf on corn. He's in a non egg air are very rural. There's not like a highway collision issue. You asked those guys while they killed those they killed dose. They like big bucks, and he's like, they try and lower stress. They're like lowering stress, lowering over population, and it's all about buck managing.

I think PA has just they made it so hard to get dough tagged forever. You had to go to the courthouse and get them and then like buy.

It just went away this year.

Yeah, now we can finally buy dough tags over the counter. So mm hmm. I got my whole, my son's whole baseball team buying dough tags for the unit my farm's in. I'm don't really take all the kids and just turn them.

That sounds like a blast, Yeah, a.

Good way to introduce kids donting.

Oh for sure, man, kids, it's so excited about doos. All right, Chester tell kay walkers through. That was an interlude.

So we're looking at a scale from like two to six. Here on my guess on what this is gonna be five?

Meat?

Starting at five it's it's like kind of unacceptable that meaning it's gonna be tough.

Well, we had that meat scientist from Purdue on Nebraska, just from University of Nebraska. Okay, what did I say, Perdue? What the hell's that? Sounds like that's a big egg school University of Nebraska. That's what he was talking about. Is when you when a customer goes and buys a steak and they're dissatisfied with their steak because it was too tough.

It's a what now, like a five meaning I think what what that means in the kilograms of force? It's like unacceptable, got it to a to a paying customer or whatever.

Unacceptable beef.

Like A two is like holy cow, that's a that's a tender piece of meat.

Uh.

Three is like you know, that's still pretty good. Four is like it's starting to get tough.

Five is like god, now, so two if you're in a place and you get a steak and you're like, my good, that steaks tender. Could be in the two, right if you're like, holy cola, steaks unpalatable, it's a five where you're like getting little bits of a steak out and put it in your napkin because you can never get it chewed through.

It's like you're chewing a piece of gum. Might be a five.

Okay, So Chester cut the core out and he loaded it into the sheer force machine. Yep, and not what happens right now?

It's not zeroed out.

Well, I've been trying to zero that thing the whole time.

We're going.

You can't get it zero. There's no tear button on there. Ter A, it's like French for zero.

It's not.

But my my scale has like, is that really French for zero? What does that mean?

Yea, from this.

That's how you zero out, both on that math or well.

The fact that we can't get zero is distressing. Is it the weight of the sheer.

It could be.

It could be, but they're all pretty consistent, so I feel like we.

Could That's okay, we'll just try subtractil.

Maybe don't see me because then people won't know that the scales that that it's off.

We see your labs. We're like in a very professional lab set up here. Everything is accurate.

Chest got our lab. I'm sweating because I got my lab coat down.

I got Krin's lab coat to the way we could do this, Krinn is just write both numbers down, the actual number and then subtract.

Yep, that sounds good.

Okay, So just so this year, when you're out there sitting there in a in a white tail, a youngster white tail fawn comes by and you're like, wow, if I shoot that, I might not have a buck. Keep this in mind, how tender is that thing that just you let us walk past?

And just by cutting into this, I think it's going to be acceptable, acceptable, exceptional.

He hit the button. Now it's shearing the meat.

Huh.

I've been very intrigued about this show that.

I think if I feel like we don't subtract it, I don't know, because it's like, I don't know, what do you guys think? It's like taking that measurement at this Chris, We'll just do both.

What are you doing both of?

And we're gonna do that number and we're gonna still record that, and then we're also going to subtract that point three.

And just just for consistency's sake, maybe we do like another one, Yeah, do one more.

Next time we do this, we're gonna get the meanest old bok you've ever seen. Man run them through there, well, like the kind of balk like eats rabbits.

We we have a little mini series called Test my Meat. Throughout the next couple of weeks, we'll have some videos on social media, on Instagram, maybe on TikTok where we test what did we test gator.

Old elk old elk meat, this bend in a freezer for a decade. Yep, we had people just sent us all people send us all kinds of stuff to test old bear meat, not old bear meat, tough bear meat. We had a guy sending a bear. He's like, you can't eat this bear, it's so tough, and we put re ran that through the Warner Braxler.

I like this idea of getting like baselines of meats because then I think we need to do like meat eater test kitchen and be like, how can we take this gnarly old meat and make it more tender?

Exactly? You hitting it Chester. Yeah, if you it'd be interesting to take a piece of shoulder meat, run it through the tender in this tester, and then slow cook one and run it through the tech.

Do you like a brine, do like a marinade, do like a slow smoke idea, That is some tender. This is what I do in my kitchen all the time. I just don't have a cool machine to test.

So that come out to one point seven seven of force two is tender. Two is tender like real tender.

So when you're looking at that white tail fall and walk by, he's more tender than tender.

He's more tender than tender or she or she based on we were just talking about, so Corin hopefully.

Yeah, button box, that's frowned.

Upon, Corin. This is a just so everyone knows. This is a backstrap, right? And when did you shoot this deer? And do you know how long? It's like ben in your freezer?

I shot this deer. Uh last Let's see, it was like Cole at the end of the season. I think it was December.

December.

I think it was December, so it was last year.

It's been sitting in there not quite a year.

Good job, Chrin. Yeah, thanks for Sharon. All right, Maggie Huddle is going to come in and since it is Whitetail Week, Maggie Huddle is going to come in and tell us about some highlights from whitetail content.

Yeah. So one of our most exciting things we've got going on is from our firearms expert, Jordan Sillers. Because we know how much everyone loves to complain about caliber battles. So now we are letting all of you listeners readers interact.

We are doing a.

White Tail Week caliber battle bracket March Madness style. It is October Madness, so you know, Shark Week, March Madness. We're ripping everybody off here. It's gonna be great. So we have a few rounds. You get to cast your vote on the meat eater dot Com in the comment section below the articles of what caliber you think is the best whitetail cartridge and whatever caliber wins that one

Best, the listener's choice, audience choice favorite will emerge.

Yes, And what's the criteria for the best. It's just your personal opinion.

Rublic, but the highest public support.

Yeah, got you?

Like?

Meaning like what takes a deer down really well without ruining the meat? Ruin as much meat? Like you know what I'm saying.

Well, yeah, it's it's a measurement of public opinion. Correct.

It's also like the article itself is structured like Jordan's other caliber battles, so he takes into account like the availability of it, the shoot ability. I forget, there's one more category in there. Gosh, I read so many of these things, you think I know it by heart. So people can read these things and kind of make up their own mind if they don't already have an opinion.

What do you predict will when Oh, it's.

People really like the six ' five creed More and they really like to talk about it. And I feel like people who like the six or five creed More are very opinionated. So that's kind of where I'm leaning towards because I feel like that's the most vocal gun support.

Group and it's pretty trendy round It's it's very trendy.

Does shoot Yeah, Oh it's great. My boyfriend's got one and I shot it the other day. I was like, did that shoot? I Like, I didn't feel it. That's are you sure you want to shoot that gun?

Honey?

No? I have my kids shoot uh sig crosses with suppressors, and my ten year old daughter is like she's like made out of cables. She's just very thin and like tough, but like thin, and she shoots that and just you can just shoot, shoot and shoot shoot not getting kicked. You know. She kind of laughs after she shoots because she's like so amped up that it's going to do something bad to her. And then just and then kids confuse too, They confuse the they confuse the noise with kick.

Man, that's awesome.

I just dread shooting my gun. Yeah, to not kid, I dreaded pulling the trick.

Yeah, learn to flinch like that, young sure.

Yeah.

Well my kids, I'm like baby, and I'm putting head like all the noise protections he's got to. My son's got a six five creed More two and my dad was like leaning me up against a tractor tire with a thirty six and.

It's good luck, you know. It's like, okay, that's why I can't hear anything either.

So I think my first rifle was like a seven mage with like no ear protection and like here you go.

You know, yeah, I remember the first time. I remember the first time I shot, first time I shot a shotgun. Of course, it was like a sowd Off twelve gage knocked me out of my ass and I was like, okay, ready to go and to deer hunting. Like my old man is Buddy Eugene or whatever, I'm remember them. I got to be old enough to hunt with a gun. I remember they filled a gallon milk jug full of water, marched across Eugene's yard, set it on a fence post,

Yeah, yeah, it's we're very proud of this. It's a great film. It's one aspect of a larger initiative called the Southeast Deer Partnership, which is made up the fifteen southeastern US states as part of the Association for Fish and Wildlife Agents. So we have a lot of partners on this. The company that we worked with to do this is called Strategic Strategic Digital Services. Joe Clemens is the executive producer. They just did not standing job. We

I sat for interviews in the film, But then now I haven't had a chance. I'm a little backed up on film watching. I sat for interviews in the film. I haven't watched the film yet, which I'm excited to do and I'm gonna do it this weekend. Clay Newcombe sits for interviews. Yep. Who else you got? I mean you got tons of biologists.

Yeah, we got funds from the states that the Southeastern states for sure, folks from my organization. Dustin Lynch, very popular country music artist, is the narrator. As you said, you and Clay are in it as well, and so really went out and got, you know, all the top people, the top voices to talk about this issue from all the different aspects. I mean, you cover a lot of very interesting aspects that I know people don't think about.

You know, it's funny about Clay. He's uh, he said, he goes, I don't want to take this wrong way, but I didn't expect it to be so good.

He loved it, Yeah, he told us. Yeah, he was at one of the premiers. So we've been premiering this thing in different places in the country. Actually be in Virginia next week.

Yeah.

Yeah, so we're doing premiers. You know, love to do one out here. Sometimes there's a possibility to do that. Yeah, so we'd love to do that. But you know, when as part of the research, state biologists were poled about what do you feel the importance is of deer to your the funding of your agency? And out of ten

Yeah, that's a good point.

Yeah, So, I mean that's the critical thing we have to have to get out there.

The film.

As I said, right now we're premiering, so doing that across the country. But it's going to be available for rent or purchase on Amazon and iTunes and Google Play on October twenty seventh, so that's coming up very soon. But the main goal of this, it's not to sell the movie as much as it is to get this in front of as many eyeballs as possible so that you know, I tell people in our organization, I have a dream someday that somebody will join the National Deer Association.

They matter.

It's important when Phil's done down there at yell, and we should do maybe we could do like a screen down there or something like that. I think about that, Phil. How how many seats are in that place?

I honestly don't know. It's a couple hundred though, Oh yeah, yeah, but.

See if you guys could bring your film to this town.

Yeah, we'll do it.

Absolutely, We'll love to devote it. That's what we want to hear.

A song even better?

Yet, were you wear the goggles.

And all these things. People are gonna they're gonna show up expecting to watch, you know, be there for conservation, and then I'm to get up there and sing a song to be like, who the hell is this guy?

You need to get like a pyrotechnics package and stuff. Yeah, I need to do something, just really get and sparks and stuff shooting everywhere.

Yeah, to Clay's point real quick that I understand why he would say that, because it's even better than I thought.

It would be. Really, you you're guilty team, absolutely.

I mean it's a you know, it's a bunch of redneck deer hunters and biologist putting the film together. What could get wrong? LEVI, you know, but no, I mean that's again where I thought Strategic Digital Services really brought that professional. I mean, you watch the thing, It's as good as any documentary you'll watching anything.

So I can't wait it. So, so layout again for folks how to check it out, and so it's you tour it. You got tour dates coming.

Up right now. The last one we have a scheduled for the October fourth in Richmond, Virginia. Okay, We've already been in Kentucky, Arkansas and Nashville, And.

So that's what you thought, is it is it, you know, relevant to northern audiences?

And I think it is. We want to we want to take it there. We've just had conversations in Calgary about how do we now to make this the national.

Yeah, I like northern US, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it is.

It absolutely is relevant because the numbers, you know, they're going to be a little bit different for each region. But I think the main point is driven home that deer really matter beyond just something you shoot or avoid with your car.

Yep. Yeah. And then and then tell people again how to go. So if they want to go see it and not catch it live, how do they go see it? Yep?

So on October twenty seventh will be available on Amazon, iTunes and Google Play. And if you want to see information on the film, you just go to wildtalemovie dot com and it'll, uh, it'll show you everything you need to know to find it great.

And then tell us a little bit about National Deer Association too, because I think that like people know, and I'm a support I'm a lifetime member and supportive Rocky Mountain Out Foundation. So a lot of times hunters will have you know, hunters want to do habitat work and benefit of the things they love to hunt. So Ducks Unlimited is primarily, you know, very hunting friendly, hunter focused organization,

Yeah, So we've been terrible at promoting ourselves. Imagine that. You know, we're so focused on deer and the habitat part of it. We've been around for thirty five years. We were originally known as the Quality Deer Management Association until about three years ago when we merged with the

I was asking Mark about that recently.

Yeah, we can't get rid of Mark. But other than that, it's going great. He seems always show up there. But just this year, I think we had six, six or seven hunters on the first Field to Fork event that we had out there this year. We're successful. Was killing deer. Yeah, and we'll get back and well and we'll make six or seven more people successful. So we're taking a lot of deer there. We've now developed relationships with neighbors out there who are letting us come on their property.

Yeah.

Because when it started, and you know, this is Michigan and you've been on the property. Uh not everyone is excited about this idea We're going to bring people in and shoot all these deer in their neighborhood, right, But it's coming around and people were kind of embracing it. So we have used the back forty as a model for I think. I think we're doing with it what you all had hoped we would do with it. We're very proud of that.

I always felt that the scrorel numbers are disappointing to me out there.

I saw that episode.

How's that coming along, you guys, Squirrel improvements? I was like, bringing in one hundred year old oak trees and planting them.

We have to add that to the list. We do have a local branch out there, which is very helpful. So it's local volunteers that are managing that land. We pick on Mark, but you know, he's part of that effort that helps do that, and so we we can't you know, it's hard for us to do it from the national organization, but our branch does it, and I will put on the list Squirrel habitat great.

So you had six people get their first year, Yeah.

It might have been seven. Yeah, just our first time of the year out there.

It's fun man. Yeah, alrighty this year, this.

Year, yeah, this season, early season.

Yep, it's great and getting along with the neighbors good. It seems to be excellent, man, excellent. All right. But check out wild Tail, America's wildest conservation success story, set for release on October twenty seven on Amazon, iTunes and Google Play. So you'll go see Phil cheerm On Noah, thanks, and then and then race home and watch Wildtail. Do the dates line up for that plan that evening? That's a hell of a date night. Yeah.

I think you can make it work. Have some coffee beforehand, it'll be fine, all.

Right, Levi Morgan, I want to dig back into oh man, Megiere, we gooder, we got we got more.

We want to talk about oh for Whitetail Week.

Yeah, did that skip anything?

I mean, We've we got a whole lot that we're going to be putting out on white Tail Week. It's worth taking a look at the meat Eater site. We've got articles from Tony Peterson and Mark Kenyon. We've got a video from Levi. We've got lots of video content. Uh. Check out the meat Eater site. Check out wired to hunt. We'll be putting out fresh white tail content more then you can consume every day.

All right, perfect now, Levi Morgan, sixteen times world champion. But here's the thing I'm important is let's pick it back up with you and your wife. You competed against each other at nine years of age.

Yeah. In the IBO, there's a class called the cub class, and so when you're really you just all shoot kids, shoot against kids. And so probably till I was is she older than you? A year older?

Okay?

Yeah, and Samantha Kleine was her name back then, and it was like, man, I had a huge crush on her there, but I dominated the cup class. That was my glory days.

But I was just that part of that sixteen time.

No, that's all professional since I turned professional.

But uh huh.

Yeah, no, I was a little kid in jeans shorts and knee socks and hiking boots and a polo shirt tucked in it. So she didn't like, she wasn't impressed.

Did you say you quit for a while, Yeah, in high school? So what happened there? Yeah, I know you got into other baseball and basketball.

Yeah. So when I was I think the last tournament I shot was the IBO World Championship when I was fourteen as an amateur and won that set a world record and walked away from the sport.

What was the world record?

It was the first time that ever been cleaned, No eights, all tens through fifty air. So I never missed a ten through fifty ears, but walked away.

Yeah, I would just walked away like dramatically.

No.

No, you know, my dad was always my coach, and it was just one of those things where he always demanded if I was he was going to take me around to compete nationally, that I was going to put in the work. And it was just one of those things where I knew with high school I was starting high school, I wanted to play sports. Girls were coming into the equation.

Ohl, Amanda, Yeah, she's out of the picture though, Samanthama. Let's talk about Amanda. Amanda, Samantha Cline, Samantha A man is out of the picture at this point.

Yes, And so I just knew I wasn't gonna be able to put into the sport what I needed to compete at a high level. So I just decided, Hey, if I want to come back to it later, I will and I just focused on school and sports, and just so when I graduated, I knew like I had this desire to go back and and dig back in what was the age?

I got two things I want to know now before just set this up. First off, at what age did you shoot your first arrow at a deer?

At a deer? Would have been.

Probably like just I guess, different than hitting one.

Yeah, I would have been probably eight or nine, okay, Yeah. And where I grew up family, Oh yeah, that's that's the whole way I got into it. My dad was a big, big hunter, so he just started going to local tournaments and took me along just to get better at shooting. And we grew up in the Carolina's hunting all game lands there. So he used to tell me, you're gonna get one opportunity a year, so make it count. And it was that was the truth back then, Like

Just hunting public ground.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, got it.

And so that was his thing, was like don't let the shoot and be delimiting exactly.

Yeah, when you get an opportunity, to make it count. And I did not the first few years I bow hunted. But I think I killed my first deer with a bow when I was twelve on that game land, South Carolina, and it was a ten point and it.

Was a nice buck.

It was nice. Yeah, I mean for then, it couldn't have been any bigger than me.

You know, But so were you at were you sitting to stand by yourself at nine years of age?

Oh?

Yeah, So I shot with my first year with a rifle at ten and an old summit climber with a two seventy by myself.

Caliber battle that down for caliber battle.

I can't imagine turning point for.

The two seventy. But it was just would you get scared being up there?

No?

When I at dark, That's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, when I had when I was always murder this when I was a little kid, and I didn't start sitting a tree by myself in Michigan had be twelve to hunt with a bow. I can't remember if I started, like I started gun hunting a little bit earlier than you were supposed to. Like you're supposed to be at that time, you had to be fourteen to hunt with a gun. But we'd usually get started a little earlier.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure this was against the rules.

Yeah, it was just like a guess. My man just looked at it like, well, he was ahead of the he was ahead of the curve because in the end, the states did decide. Most states decide it's a family decision, right, Yeah, and he just made it a family decision before it was a family decision. But I remember man being in

Man.

You know, Oh, you used to scare me because I used to go. We had this big ravine on this farm. We'd hunt and you'd go down to the bottom of this ravine. Dude, it seemed like you were like in like you're like in Lewis and Clark Country you're talking about.

We had two way radios, but he did. My dad wouldn't let me talk on it. It was we had this More's code thing where I had to you had to click it because he was like, you're gonna spook.

All the deer.

So I was like, okay, I just randomly start clicking it and hoping. He answered, but yeah, so he'd come pick you up. Yeah, but like you said, some nights it's an hour after dark. I'm up there in tears like something happened. And the rule was I couldn't get down until he got there.

And every stump takes its turn looking like a bear exactly. Yeah.

Yeah, so you tough en up quick, I think.

Oh, I think so, man, Yeah, how does the tournament work, like like lay out the yardages and target size and stuffing. It's it's consistent, right, I mean, like every tournament you go to, is the what do you call it the course? I mean right, yeah, of course the course is the same, right.

No, it's totally different.

So they so like indoors it changes.

Oh no, indoor archery is would be called feed to archery or n FAA. So that's all just the same yardage, the same face, doing the same thing every shot. It's more like turn your brain off and just repeat, okay.

And that's like that's because that's that's what I'm trying to think of as differentiate what people might be familiar with with watching the Olympics for instance.

Right to what you're doing. Yeah, and the Olympics is the same. But outdoors it's you know, fifty meters or seventy meters whatever it is now and they just stand there and just shoot the same yardage. So what And I shoot those organizations as well, the n FAA, and I've had success there. But what I really love is is three D and so that's the course. It's like a trail shoot almost where there's no rangefinders. Every target's a different distance. It's like hunting simulation type and.

Get what do the yardages want up be? In a net case?

So it's zero to fifty approximately, and so you know, it's just one. You might go to a blackbird targets it's thirty eight and then you shoot that one score, go to the next one and it's a coyoto target at fifty one down a good canyon, you know. So it's just every shot it's different.

And then is a ten. Uh, how's it scored out?

Yeah, so you have in the ASA, it's a little different than the IBO. The ASA, the ten is always kind of par and like if you're a golfer, like that would be they say a ten's your friend, and I agree in a way, but if you want to win, it's kind of not your friend. I mean, then you have a twelve, which is a pretty risky shot. If you miss the ten, you're an eight. We miss that, you're a five, and then if you miss the whole target,

Like if you shooting, you're flirting with the eight.

Yes, you're flirting with If you hit low, you flirt with the eight. And then in the in the finals, we have what's called a fourteen, so it's a bonus and it's up by itself in the corner of the eight ring, so you're flirting with the five. It's like if you go for that, you and you miss, there's no par like you're dropping, you know. So it's uh so I know I've.

Shot in the past, and there's like I think how it works is five and then uh eight, ten and ten.

X okay, yep, So that was the old IBO rules, so it was a center X in the ten ring. And that was when Cabelas had the Nabh and the tour and they broke ties with the xes. And that when I said, when I was fourteen and shot a five hundred. So the five hundred was fifty out of fifty targets, that's all tens, and they did it was an X at that point. But they don't do the X anymore. So the IBO that's in eleven now the center ring is an eleven and asa the lower ring

And so walk folks through the what the range is like, like number of targets, how long it takes to shoot the course, how many arrows are gonna shoot?

Yeah, so for qualifying and you know, like a major three D event, we'll shoot twenty targets on a Friday, twenty targets on Saturday, so forty total. You'll have four to five man groups. Takes about three and a half to four hours to shoot the course and then at the end of that forty targets they take the top five and then we go into the final on Saturday night and then shooting for the wind and shooting so they'll be five in the open pro five and the women pro so down the line.

Yep. And uh, when you're doing that, is there the no rangefinder thing surprises me, Like that's are you commiserating with other shooters?

No?

No, no, so you keep what's in your head in your head.

Yeah, you can't talk about it, you can't hint about it, you can't do any of that.

So are you able to observe them closely the targets? No? No, are you with the other shooters? Are you standing right next to them?

Yeah, like we're standing next to each other judge and these yardages and it's just an educated guess. So I'm you keep your judgment to yourself. Oh yeah, for sure, got it. And then you know, it's like you're using everything. Everybody thinks that they call me a walking rangefinder and I'm not at all, you know, I'm not. I'm like, if you only knew like the numbers that went through my head before I shot that it's it's just a good decision. Like you're listening to how long it takes

Yeah, I was curious.

What.

Uh So let's say you're talking in the forty to fifty yard range. Obviously the exact number is helpful. Yeah, what what's just like, what's what's a good guess? Let's Lookay, the known distance is fifty one yards?

Right?

What is too far off? With your guests?

It depends on where you're aiming if and me personally, I aim at every twelve. I can't help it, like you're shooting for twelve. Yeah, so I have to play my safety with my numbers. So if it's fifty one yards, the perfect play would have been fifty one and a half for me, gives you a little bit of room to make a week shot and still hit a twelve. And if I make a perfect shot, I might clip the top of the twelve too, but it definitely keeps me in the tenering.

And then what what talk about the gear, you guys using what the regulations on gear is?

H Yeah, we were allowed you know, buyos, and we're shooting. Everybody for the most part is shooting a lens in our scopes three to five powers probably the most common. Back when I was younger, in my early twenties, I won everything with no lens. I just shot an uppen, no lens. But everybody shooting thirty five to forty inch axle, daxelbows, long stabilizer deals, you know, very stable platforms for that. But no range finders, no electronics, and our buyos, none of that stuff.

So back tension release shoot.

I go back and forth between a back tension and a thumb button because target panic still rears its head every once in a while. Dealt with them a whole life, and so I'll shoot a thumb button really light because I shoot that the best. And then when I feel those demons coming on, I switch to a Hinge release and shoot that for a year and then go back and just kind of back and forth.

Gotcha.

Uh, talk about what you use for a site.

So for tournaments, I'm using what's called an excel Achieve and so it's one pin on a mover pretty much for people to hunt.

And you got to you got to calibrated tape obviously.

Down to the I mean you can set it to the tenth of a yard kid. Yeah, And so like one click is just like so minute. And so it's just a very microadjustable tunable sight and shooting like a ten thous blue fiber so it doesn't starburst. So you can really pinpoint aiming and running a light kit to that, like an LP light that you can dim down so you can have a battery device on there on your bow. Yeah, so you can nothing that projects No, it can't project light. It can only be to light your pin.

Yep.

And so you know, now these the bows, now we're literally shooting them. I'm shooting pretty much out of the box. When I was twenty, you took them apart and rebuilt them. You know, you had to know how to pretty much build a bow back then. Limb pockets were sloppy. You were shim and cam shim and Lamb's.

You know.

I should have had a sponsor from JB. Weld when I was twenty because that's how I built stuff. So yeah, it's changed for me.

At what age were you messing with your own bow?

I was really lucky to grow up in an area had a ton of really good talent in that western North Carolina circuit. Some of the first guys that won a ton took me under their wings. My dad was really my only coach on the mental and shooting side of things. But I had some really good mentors like Scott Cope and an older guy named Dave that that took me under and just showed me how to work on bow and showed me why when things would go wrong, why, how to build arrows, how to tune. I would say

And little things from a gear standpoint.

Gear standpoint meant, you know, just the way I was attacking the range everything, but yeah, mostly just my setup type stuff.

What what percent do you think when it comes to success in a tournament? It so it'd be hard to answer what percent is equipment and what percent's mental because everybody's probably got good.

Gear, right, Yeah, it's it's ninety nine percent mental.

Because because everybody's got to access to the same stuff, there's no secrets.

Yeah no, And then you stand on the practice range of the bags, he'll be three hundred shooters and if you said pick, if you can't see the faces just off the groups in the bag, who's going to win? They all look the same. Everybody shoots just as good pretty much even through the amateur ranks at these competitions. There's incredible shooters. But it's the little things. And you're plans to.

Back that up for me, tell me that again. So if you walk up and you got three hundred shooters.

On the back like practice bags, so like there's a bag line.

Like pre tournament practice bags.

Yeah, and everybody's out there just checking tapes, checking their equipment, and like the top amateurs are shooting groups like gotcha fifty.

You would be able to stroll down groups and see like, oh, this guy's all over play. It's this guy's time.

I mean occasionally, but for the most part, the people that show up to these tournaments are very top level archers.

Like in a controlled situation, they're gonna all shoot good.

But it's when you get when that horn sounds and it's for score, you know, that's when everybody starts going away. And it's just like the pressure and knowing you can't make a mistake and people's mental approach.

It's just those little mental game man, it's gotta be.

It's insane because you know most sports you have that that adrenaline and spike. Can you use that, like football or baseball or basketball to run faster or hit harder, throw.

Further, crushing gear against your head.

Exactly, and archerie, that's your enemy, Like you got to keep that suppressed, right and.

I got down.

So with that being like such a huge factor, like being able to control your stress, how does that translate.

Into the deer woods.

Do you think it's like, are you more relaxed there than in the tournaments?

No, worse, way worse in the deer woods. Yeah, because it's such an uncontrolled environment, you know, and like you don't know how long that deer is going to stand there. And I've seen some of the best shooters in the world that couldn't hit a live deer to save their life.

Because of what They just freak out and really freaking out.

They like I think most I think it's most people's mistake deer hunting is that you feel like it's constantly about to run, you know, and so like I really when we started filming our hunts is when I learned the most about myself and hunting is because I would feel fuels so rushed and make mistakes rushing and then go back and wash it. I'm like, there was so calm, Oh, there's nothing to rush for. It was why was I in such a hurry? So I really started to slow

Do you think doing both helps?

Oh? Yeah, for sure, for sure. I Mean I've coming out of my highest stress tournament season in August and right into hunting season in September. And so I think most people bow hunting picked their bow up maybe a month before season, and they haven't felt any pressure, any stress. They shoot by themselves in the backyard, and then the first time they're under that is when that deer of a lifetime or big buck or elk is standing in front of them and they just crumble that.

That stuff about a month before in your yard by yourself really resonated.

That's just the way it is.

Or I have the high I stressing my kids. I stressed my kids kind of paying at tation.

Yeah. So I'm like, I've had my my eleven year old. Now I'm trying to like prepare him for hunting season because this is kind of his first full season hunting tree stands with a bow. Yeah, And so I'm out there just putting the pressure on, like he's walking, I'm gonna stop him. I'm like, man like, I'm like make the shot, you know, and then he's failing. And we're

So what what what are the gear differences? So shooting tournaments?

Is it?

I used a totally different arrow set up.

Yeah, okay, arrows and tournaments are a lot bigger, so we can shoot up to like a twenty seven diameter shaft to cut lines. And that's kind of the purpose.

Oh really yeah, that little yeah.

Because so many days shooting like a even a smaller diameter because I was an interesting point, missed rings by just and you're like.

So like a thicker arrow just blows a better hole. Yeah, just cuts lines better. And so I mean by thirty seconds of inch minute.

But I so many tournaments I.

Get sitting right here, man. That's why those are some winners right there.

Well, one of my buddies actually, because there used to be no rule indoors for arrow size, and he took stabilizer bars and made arrows out of him.

You're kidding, no, I swear.

And because back then there was a million dollar prize if you didn't miss between three tournaments. You won a million dollars, and that you didn't miss the first two tournaments, and then after that third one you think he missed one or two for the million dollars, and they stable arrow over like the next year you couldn't shoot over a certain size.

Wow, I didn't.

Oh man, that's a that's a really interesting point. It's like that little bit of diameter.

Yeah, but the bigger they are, the harder it is to get him to tune. Sometimes.

Sure they get paid for a stiffer Yeah, there's a point at which doesn't help anymore for sure. So what what do you like? What do you like to use to hunt?

I use a micro diameter smallest, like a one to sixty six. We actually just finished building a whole platform out of that system because I love the system. I hated all the components that went with them in the past, but that's there. I like the really small for penetration cutting the wind.

What do you like for broadheads?

So I shoot? I've shot swackers a two inch expandable for twelve years. Really, yeah, use for everything everything from moose to elk, grizzly bear. I've shot everything with them. So Buffalo, the mechanical. But I got a thirty one inch draw shooting seventy eight pounds, and so I'm pushing a lot of energy.

Oh, with seventy eight pounds hunting with your with your tournament bows, I'd imagine you're pulling less.

A little seventy two to seventy four pounds tournaments. If you shoot FETA, it's a max of sixty, which is why I don't shoot that a lot. It's just I can't. I don't hold sixty pounds well because I never shoot sixty pounds.

Is it the same amount of leadoff as you're hunting bow then your tournament bow?

Yeah, eighty out all the way down to seventy percent tournaments. But depending on the way the cams built, Like there's seventy v's or's, you know, just regular seventies, which way the way it falls into that that valley, everybody wants a different feel, and I've just got to wear I like eighty for everything anymore.

So why do you crank up from going from tournaments to hunting? Why are you cranking up six.

Pounds because I'm only shooting one arrow hunting, so tall you know, I'm shooting a lot of arrows a day.

Yeah, I played a long game a little bit.

Yeah.

So do you train higher?

Not really, I mean for tournament season. I'll start like indoor season. I'll be shooting seventy seventy two and then just kind of and that's a lot of arrows at the beginning of the year January February, so by three D season or outdoor season, I'm in great shooting shape. And then going into hunting, going up to seventy eight pounds is not a huge huge deal, especially we don't shoot nearly as many arrows, but I like to have that little extra if I can't. This year, I actually

I think, what, what's some of the biggest mistakes you think people make hunting white tails? Shoot? Hitting white tails? Now them hitting them? They aim where they want to hit, and you're aiming low. H Hell depends on the distance. I've heard you talk I've heard you talk about this in the past.

Yeah, I think, you know, I think forty yards is the worst. Forty to fifty yards is probably the worst distance to shoot a white tail in my opinion, because they they can hear everything. They can hear the bow, they hear the arrow, but they still have time to react. Yep, once you get further than that, they can't hear the bow go off as well. They don't react that jumpy movement.

What's a big drop for a deer loading up to jump and talk about that too, is like the idea of that he like jumped the string. Yeah, like talk about what he's doing.

They're just crouching to run, you know, but they have to flex their legs to run, and so it looks like they're duck in your arrow, but they're just they're like they're just just getting out of there, you know. Yeah, he's loading up to spring run. Yeah, and so it's just I take all that into consideration. But if they're forty yards, it's dead quiet and they're keyed up. I'm aiming like belly line. Really yeah, they're they're gonna.

So you're aiming that if he didn't do anything, you're.

You're in trouble.

He's gonna do something, But I know you're gonna do something.

We filmed them on where they will. They not only do they drop, but they also load away from you. So there it almost if you're like the other direction. Yeah, so the era, we have video of the arrow just climbing. Literally just as he's falling, the arrow goes almost like a special effect, which is crazy.

Which kind of makes sense. If they're getting predator's coming, they're gonna want to.

White Tail especially doesn't need a reason. I mean, they we hunt other mule deer. I feel a little differently about they always want to check and see what's going on. White tail doesn't need a reason and it's just that immediate reaction boom. Yeah, it's insane.

Yeah, they'll wheel away and turn like there's so much to take in consideration. And I think people just shoot a deer target a ton, you know, practicing, and they just the tin ring and everything's where they want to hit to double long and then so when that deer comes out, they just put their thirty yard pin right the lungs and shoot and backstrap them or shoot over them or you know. I just think that's the probably the biggest mistake I see people make as far as the shooting aspect of it.

I'm sure you hot to ask this, take a stab at it? If at what distance? And I know there's all these variables like speed of arrow and all that, but let's say it's totally still call them out. At what distance is a deer that's just like because of the noise aspect, at what distance is it just too far to know where it's going to be when the arrow gets there.

I've seen deer completely move out of the way at forty, you know, and then I've seen deer at eighty stand there and never move at all. So it's very hard to say.

So forty one can be out of the way for sure.

I mean, depending on the speed of the bow. I mean, I'm talking about three feet from where you were aiming. You know, you might hit him in the hip type stuff. Just a very you know, bow hunting and hunting in general is just very uncontroled, and so you just have to take high percentage shots and then understand that bad things are going to happen every once in a while and you have to deal with it and do your best.

If somebody tells you that, they're probably they're probably full of it.

Yeah yeah, But I feel really comfortable shooting a white till, Like I love that sixty to eighty range because they don't move a lot, got it, And I still feel very comfortable shooting. But I mean, I've dedicated my life to that I.

Think that's your businessman.

Yeah, and so that forty to fifty makes me most nervous shoot because they're never where they were when I the release fires.

Huh. So it's like, where's he going to go talk about your aiming proce? You're not aiming at brown? No, no, no.

My dad taught me, like, so I missed a lot of deer when I was hunting those game lands from that when I said I started hunting it like started shooting at him at like eight, and then I killed my first one at twelve. Well, that four year span was not pretty, and so my dad really started that's what I was doing, like just put pins on it and shoot. And so he really like drove it into my head that I got to pick a hair. He's like, you have to pick a hair on that deer that

So that's how you're thinking about it.

Yeah, that's how I think about it.

And that's an interesting deal. You can see people might people that don't shoot bows, uh, might get this from just shut sighting your rifle at a range. Like if you're just trying to zero you gun in to one hundred yards, shoot a bullet hole and then use that. Yeah, and you'll watch your group shrink down for sure. Like if you if you got a one circle on a target and you're trying to see what your group is, like,

So I think this is where three D tournaments has helped me so much, because we're aiming at a target and you can't see the rings. There are no dots, there's no it's a blank deer target. You just have to know, like you find the rings with bios and then you get very good at aiming off of shadows and just little detailed differences. And so for me on a deer, like, I think first and foremost you have to know the anatomy of a deer and an animal really.

Well, let's do it. Then it's a forty yard shot.

Okay, forty yard shot perfectly broadside. I am going to give myself and it's all just for me. It's giving myself the most room for error, human error, the deer moving everything, so forty yards perfectly broadside. I'm gonna pick that spot just behind the elbow, about two inches an inch and a half two inches up in the deer maybe, and I'm going to burn my forty yard pin about an inch or two behind that crease, and knowing that deer is gonna move.

Yeah. See that's the thing there, man, it's like not that like I wonder if it will, but you just like it will. It's gonna be. Yeah.

Now, if the wind's blowing forty it's raining, he's looking the other way. He's chasing a dough. Everything changes that. I almost messed up last year in Mississippi. The buck was chasing a dough out of a cane. Thinket it's quiet, So in my mind I'm thinking he's gonna he's gonna drop. But when they're that keyed up and run it up on a dough, they don't hear anything.

You can.

You could scream at him. They ain't paying attention. And I hit him in that inch above, right behind the crease and hit the heart, bottom of the heart. But it's he didn't move, and it scared me to death. You know, when I shot and he just stood there and took it, I was like, oh man, but in a normal scenario, they're gonna duck five to ten inches at forty yards?

Are there shots? And let's keep it like, let's let's keep it forty or you know, forty or so Let's say you got a buck and he comes in, he gets like semi down when and he just knows something isn't right, you know, works as are you thinking, like, no way, he's too keyed up? Are you just playing you just playing on you just plan on that? Then yeah, like this dude is a flight risk at when the string board for sure?

For sure? Then then I think I think there is a time where you just have to say it's not it's not going to work. You know, if he's that keyed up looking at you at sixty, it's probably not a good you'll make.

You might make the call not to do it.

Yeah, yeah, but forty I think you can still make the play. He can duck, but he you know, it's it's just such a situational thing.

Yeah, you know, I'm.

Thinking of the average hunter here. Yeah, you're you're the best in the world. Okay, we've established with much Yeah. Yeah, I pounded the table, that's right.

But you were able to take.

Your mind through a thought process and a very intense situation. Yeah, the average guy realistically like twenty five yards maybe thirty.

Right, I think, you know, the high percentage stuff. Yeah, I think the average guy can get efficient enough to shoot fifty sixty yards and be very good. The problem is you in the white too, which you have to be able to process and take in so much information and then make a good decision with it like that, And that's the hard part, is making good decisions in

Maybe that's why I've had such a hard time out here.

It's hard, man.

It is just shoots homemade bows.

Oh really, yeah, I used to a lot more. I haven't had a lot of time, but I used to build bows.

But you might know about Chess. He has a bowl company, not anymore more, he did.

I wanted to tell you a story about Aim Small.

That I can't argue with that he's got an arrow tattooed on his arm.

One day. This is just a real quick story out in the elkwoods. I get out there and I always shoot in a couple of arrows with I have a judo point. So I'm at about fifteen yards and I pick out a little rock and I shoot. I just miss it. I'm like, all right, that's pretty good, you know, I'm happy with that. I walk down the trail a little bit. I see a grouse about fifteen yards. I aim at it, shoot at it, just miss it.

Yeah.

Then a little while later that day have a bull come in about twenty yards, perfectly broadside shot, all nervous, aim at it, just miss it. But it just goes to show you. It's like, come on, man, I can hit my target.

Yeah.

At twenty yards, focus gets bigger, everything exactly.

Yeah, that's set. That's this weird thing, man. I like there's so many, God, there's so many like failure stores. There's so many failure stories that when I'm trying to explain this to people, like the sort of you know, like the egg and you of trying to learn how to kill elk with a bow, Like we started hunting.

One hundred percent. I mean, it's so funny because I try to tell people all the time. They're like, how do you in those moments where even tournaments where everything is on the line, Like, how do you not let like all the negative like what could go wrong? Stuff in? Because that's what happens. It's like like the skier analogies like don't hit the tree. Don't hit the tree, you hit the tree. You know, what you're focused on is is very important?

You know, you have a There's so many different things and ways and that people teach. Do you do you have a process?

I you know, I won a lot of tournaments before I really really realize what I had a process and those those and I've watched a lot of people and I think I just got a little bit lucky too as far as having that. My dad was a really good mental coach, tough tough love type mental coach, but he was very invested in me being able to perform in high pressure. And so it's like I never really

Like you said, like you want it so bad, yes, like this what you worked.

For, this opportunity right now, this arrow, whether like this year's shooting for Worlds, Like my whole season came down to that arrow, and everything in me wanted to just get to the result now. But I literally that was probably the slowest arrow I shot all year because I was.

Like, this double this is the last era of Worlds, Yes.

The final ara. I put up on my Instagram a video of me shooting that, and I didn't like in the moment, I look so calm, but inside I was on fire, you know, because everybody's always like, dude, you are just made of ice, You like ice water in your veins. I'm like, no, I am freaking out inside. I just looked that way. And so it was really really a slow, methodical process. And if you'd have looked at me at nineteen twenty, I was still winning a lot.

And what does that look like? Walk walk through what looks like to slow yourself down? Now what it looks like? But I mean, are you are you literally talking to yourself? Yes? Okay, you're lecturing yourself?

Yes, on where I want to hit I'm gonna hit here, I'm gonna aim here. This is what's gonna happen. I'm gonna shoot it for this, I'm double checking my site tape. I'm gonna execute slowly and steady and just really affirming every positive thing that I'm going to do, not like what could happen if I don't do this, Because I've had tournaments where I let those thoughts in and it's

It's like, oh man, I'll be like, yeah, I gotta run.

Yeah.

It's like it's I've been like those stretches in your career where it's like you just can't get it. You just right there and just like five in a row where you don't you don't win, and it's just like everybody's like, oh he lost it. You hear the buzz and it's like, Okay, I gotta shut all that up and figure it out. And I think just and then I think that's why you see in a lot of sports the guys that dominate and then they just go away because it's that expectation that of other people and

Yep.

And it's a very uncomfortable feeling.

What's old for a tournament shooter.

Some of the guys that are in their fifties still shooting incredibly. You play a long time, Yeah, so I could. I don't know that I will hold you. I'm thirty six, But do you know a decade if you felt like right, yeah, I mean, if my eyes the main thing is your eyes.

Is that?

Is that what the limiting factor is.

Yeah, so a lot of the guys have had you know, different surgeries and kept their eyes really good. My eyes are still great. They change every year, but I can still see very well.

What's you deal with stuff like coffee?

You know?

Yeah, I drink coffee every morning, so I tournament shooting, I just could try to limit it until after, but I am like addicted to caffeine badly, So.

That's just factored in. Oh yeah, it's gonna be coffee.

Well, the first thing I think of whenever I shoot that final arrow that day is like I'm getting an energy drink from the closest gas station I come to after this. Yeah, but I keep it to a minimum and try to eat easy digestible foods. Yeah, give me an example, like now through something like that for breathers. I don't want like steak and eggs, you know, just because literally you can see when your body's working that hard to digest food. You can see your pin moving, your heartbeat.

It's like, you know, man, it wasn't until I never got it from Archie. It wasn't until I got into free diving Spirit official and free diving. Like my friend Greg fonce, He's like, if something's wrong with you, this is where you find out right and noticing the effects of because you're just trying to do breath holds and become conscious of your heart, noticing the effects of what you've eaten, what you drank, the hydration stress. I never

Definitely, there's a lot of things you can do to slow your heart rate. You know, I've learned all that shooting in the World Cup because I've never been under that much pressure, like shooting for the US in England and against other countries and stuff like that. It was like this immense pressure and for I was like this total redneck that went over there because everybody like you should go shoot in the World Cup. And then I

On the lee Greenwood yelling.

Just rolled through through all my buddies and now it's me and some guy from the Netherlands and they're like blowing air horns in my ear, and I'm like, Jesus is wild over here.

So when you see a buck coming, let's say, like a buck you've really been after, Yeah, and he's coming. He's still way out, but he's coming, he's lined out. Do you are you conscious about what?

Like?

Are you practicing the same mental discipline like this is gonna.

Happen right right?

So are you go like okay, I'm gonna know, yeah, getting my headspace. Are you just in the hunting game and.

You're not playing like I'm not nearly as good in that moment as I am at a tournament, just because in a tournament, I know exactly what's gonna take place for the most part, like I got twenty targets to shoot, and then once I'm in the finals, I can make a plan like this is my strategy.

Target's not gonna with you, no, I.

Mean hunting, you might hunt for two weeks and you get lulled asleep and all of a sudden, boom, there he is. He's coming, and so you don't have that. I mean, ideally you stay sharp and if he comes on this trail, like that's what I try to do. If he comes from here, this will be my plan. If he comes from here, this is what I'm gonna do.

When because you're a walking range finder. Do you uh, what do you what are you doing with deer?

Oh? I range everything? Yeah, that thing's in my hand constantly.

Got it? So what do you get up the tree? You start ranging trees and yeah, and when you visualize all your shot, like are you like, okay, I a picture shooting through that gap?

I pick?

Are you doing all that kind of stuff?

If he comes on that trail, I hit that limb over like everything, I'm trying to pick it apart when I get in a tree.

But even then could be this way, it could be that way.

But like used to, I'd range a tree like that one's forty, that one's fifty one. So if he's between it, all kind of try to gauge it. But I learned myself, and like you black out a lot in those moments, right yep, and it's right there and then you're like, wait, what was that trig?

You know?

So now I'm I'm constantly got my rangefinder, and so like I want to click it and like when I until he breaks under thirty, then I'll put it up.

You know, how do you hang your rangefinder?

I've got the you know, the chest binos and then the rangefinder holds yeah, pouch, And so like, if he's walking broadside, I'm going to click him, click and click him because I want to I need that exact for me to aim that small and focus that small in my head. I need to know exactly how far he is. Right, If you're like he's forty between forty and forty six, it's very hard to aim an inch up in him.

Yeah, you're like, you're kind of pretending, right, you're aiming, you know.

So for me, I mentally, I need to know, like he's forty two point three. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna.

But are you shooting set pins?

Then when you're hunting, you know, I got twenty thirty, forty, fifty sixty and then it's on a mover and I use my bottom pin as the gotcha.

So a lot of your shots you're shooting off pins?

Yeah?

And are you are you splitting gaps or yeah?

You do? Yeah, yeah, And it's just a practice thing.

And explain gapping real quick for people who are listening.

So like, if you if he's fifty four yards and you got a fifty and a sixty, you're splitting that where an imaginary fifty four yard panalby. So you put your fifty high or sixty low and try to gap that where exactly where it needs to be. And that's an art and that takes a lot of practice.

This is it's another thing to think about, man, it is.

So that's like one thing that you got to be really in tune with your stuff.

I was trying to get my kid a shot at a deer to syear at his bow this his first year, you know, And and I was just like a guy where, Okay, we're not gonna shoot more than twenty, you know, and if you get a shot, like just that's the that's the thing, you know. And I feel like I was limiting and I was just trying to simplify it. Yeah, right, I was trying to simplify it. I'm like, it doesn't matter if I say, go, that's the green thing. Put it there. Don't worry about all this other because he

Yeah, I think that's a good thing. That's the same way I'm doing with mine. We practiced out the thirty and I've got him like putting him in situations. But I already told him. I said, if it's over twenty, it's no go.

Yeah. We sat down and I showed him, you know, I was showing him like that that tree, if it's coming on that trail, that tree, not before that tree. But that treat is time and it's the green bear or whatever. The just keep it simple.

I grew up with the compound, Yeah, real cheap one started hunting with traditional bows. It's like so difficult. Recently I had a I was given a compound and got it all set up. Holy cow.

Cow work. Did they work real good?

You know, especially having like it's a little definitely little different mechanics, but having like good good mechanics and understanding back tension and things like that. Grabbing a compound and then being able to wrap relax a little bit at full draw was a big thing for me because I was wanting to like rip it apart, rip it apart. But like after that, like I was just like, you've got to be kidding.

I have a long bow, dude, and and I haven't ruled out that someday. I'm like I put in a PVC too with a cap on it and put it deliberately like in like mental storage. And I've so many times almost taken some of that stuff and put it on the free table here at work because someday you might return to it. But right now I just don't have the time, discipline, or dedication to do it. But someday, I'm like, I could picture someday in my old man era picking that out and being like, all right, man,

I'm like, nope, Like I do. I respect people to do that because I'm like, I would be scared to death to take a long bow out for fun.

I have.

I'm not very good to be, to be honest with you, I've done it a long time, and the more I do it, the more scared I get. Yeah with it, which sucks, But I've just seen a lot happen.

Oh yeah, that's how that won a tournament with my longbow. No, but in my age class it was only me and one other kid gotcha.

Well, win's a win.

Yeah, It's just it was just like my brother, he was the best in his in his uh sixth grade class. I beat this one boy, only one in his class.

They're fun to shoot, Yeah, I just man, And.

There's a time and place.

Yeah.

Like, so what would happen to you if you went in?

Uh?

What would have happened to you if you, knowing what you knew, went and shot?

Uh?

Like Olympic style? Gosh, have you ever messled it?

No?

Never.

Some of my good friends Brady Ellison probably the best American Olympic shooter there there ever was. I've hunted with him. He's a great guy, but I'd have no idea where to start.

Recurve.

Yeah, just a recurve with pins and fingers and clickers, and I just I got I got nothing. But he's unbelievable. Like he shoots as good as a lot of the compound professionals with his recurve.

Yeah. Is he a hunter?

Yeah?

What's he hunt with?

Uh?

He hunts with a compound, does he? Yeah? Yeah? And he can shoot with a compound like very well. Yeah, but he has to shoot like forty percent let off because he's so used to that. Oh the wall, the tension just building, is that right? Yeah? Whenever it like breaks over, it freaks him out.

You can't jump from the one to the other.

Huh Yeah, I mean maybe now time I shot with him is when I.

Shot that bowl, that compound, I couldn't let it down.

Yeah, you had that much tension built.

Yeah. Yeah, it was like he's like let it down. I'm like, you know, like.

Like it's like suspenseful.

Yeah.

Have you ever had Do you ever get jumpy from like gear malfunctions? No, like you have you have like the string junk the cam or like a problem with the release or whatever, then all of a sudden it's like some kind of like demon enters your head.

I have with mostly with release malfunction, you know, stuff that's really big because it just takes you so much out of your shot process, and then every time you're drawing the bow back for like the next hundred draws, you're thinking about it.

Yeah. I've had I've had that where I've had I've been rattled by it and a lot of self afflicted. Like I had a bowl one time. I flew with it in a hard case, but I didn't even think to check it out. Yeah, and I had no idea, But I don't know what someone jumped up down on and drove a plane over it. I don't know, right, Yeah, just bent the hell out of the top the upper cam. Yeah, pulled it back flop. Oh yeah, dude. It's just then you're like, well, I'll be living with that for a

Man.

Yeah.

I've been very lucky in tournaments to not or hunting, uh, to not have too much of that stuff going. I did a major event one time have a release miss malfunction and sent one down through the woods on the second target of the final day, and that was tough to recover from, was it? Yeah? I almost won the tournament, but it was It was just a tough mental obstacle like that.

That aarrow cost you.

Oh yeah, it cost me.

You'll get a mulligan.

No, you move on, and I would. The funny thing was I was shooting with a so at the time, I was in a peer group, the top pier group, with the pro staff coordinator for that release company. When it shot, I couldn't even yell at the release or do anything. I just had to shove it down in my palch and get a new one and go to the next one.

So yeah, that's good.

It's really the only time that's happened to me. Cost me big time.

Anyway, You got any uh, you got any tournament shooters coming up next generation?

Oh yeah, a ton of them, keeping those young guys beat down the hardest parts, putting doubts in their mind, messing with.

What I was referring to. It might be the same answer I was referring to your kids.

Oh no, I don't think so. My kid he literally looked me right in the eye and said, I'm never gonna shoot tournaments. So like, okay, that's as clear as I needed, you know.

But he HeLEX me outdoors the competitive fishing.

He's he's the most competitive. My oldest is the most competitive human being. It's like I'm trying to work with him because it's like, if like I beat him. There's some videos that I should post of him at like five where I was like beat him at air hockey and he would lose his mind and I'd make him shake my hand and tell me good job, and he did not want to do it, Like really.

Yeah.

He was like, like, you're gonna shake my hand and look me in the eyes, you know that kind of stuff. But he's a baseball kid right now. Loves it and he loves the bass fish so bess fish. Yeah, loves it. So he'll get up at four am every day to go bass fish.

So that's cool. Yeah, art now, or what do you try your kids?

I got eleven, one's about to turn six. Then I've got eighteen month old little girl and then a four month old little boy, So I don't know with my My six year old is just wild. He says he wants to hunt, but he won't practice. He's just that kid.

Yeah.

Man, Yeah, it's hard. It's hard to picture what in practice.

And it's so funny how different they are. But he's he's my comedian for sure.

That's good.

Yeah.

Well, tell people how to find you, how to check out your stuff, how to find you on social media whatever.

Yeah. I am on Instagram mostly bow Life, Underscore Levi. We have a showing the outdoor channel bow Life, and then we're doing a lot of stuff on YouTube now on Levi on Morgan YouTube and the Levi on Morgan dot Com. Uh and that's pretty much all the places.

I will be and you can shoot tournaments next year.

That's the plan. I haven't quit yet, No, not yet, not yet. I'm gonna I still don't feel finished quite yet.

How many, like, at what point? At what year mark are you undecided? You know what I'm saying? Five forty years?

You know, I wanted to be done by forty, okay, just because the age of my kids will be and I've just been gone a lot and I just want to be there with my kids. Yeah, during that span because I shoot like seventeen major events a year, so it's a lot. And this last trip that I left just gets harder every time. You know, my eleven year old ball and his eyes out and it was just tough.

Yeah. I don't do that stuff, man, It's hard. It takes a toll on you, man.

Yeah. And I sat in the driveway crying myself for like an hour, like what am I doing? So I don't know how much? Literally, you know, I love the competitiveness of it, but at some points, like how many you need to win? And before you know, I just want to I don't want to be that dad that's gone.

Being gone's tough. Man, if you have, like, we run like a tight program at my house, and so I like when I'm gone, I'm not worried. Yeah you know what I mean, Like I'm not worried about what's going on.

Right.

Yeah, I said, it's a tight show. Yeah, like very controlled program. But it's just nice to be home.

It is nice. Yeah, it's nice.

I'm just starting to get a taste of that.

Yeah. Yeah, it's not like you're worried. I'm not like worried. It's just like I want, like I just want to be Yeah, exactly, face you want to be part of the mix.

Man you have how old?

Just got a brand new one.

He's going to be a year October nineteenth. He looks he's a tiny little bugger. Yeah, he's actually here in the office right now. We got to make things work. I just left him in my office.

There.

Yeah.

I remember like when when Landa was a baby, I was like, this isn't too bad. It's hurt, but when they start crying when you leave, that's the heart that's the hardest.

Where he doesn't quite Yeah, you're almost there.

Yeah, let's not stand on the sad.

Yeah, for sure, for sure, I do get to go home today. So that's that's a good note.

Uh well, Nick, thanks coming on, man, my pleasure to think. I appreciate it, coming on. Talking about the movie Wild Tale and Levia. Thanks for coming on.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Right, I'm gonna hit you up about that live show. I'll be there all right, shooting. Let's check on the shooting part.

I'll take a ticket. It's been a while, it's Pittsburgh.

Anything goes.

Yeah, we got a guy, we got a tour man trying to ask were having someone shot a boat. We'll figure it off. Not you just have to talk or your poetry you'll all be written in arrows. We'll find out. That's fine, all right, Thanks man, Thanks everybody.

See you Gray shot unlike Silver in the Sun. Ride, Ride, Ride on, alot of Sweetheart.

We're done beat this damn horse to death, so taking a new one and ride.

We're done beat this damn horse today, so take a new one and ride on.