Ep. 415: The Element

Alamo because those dudes weren't Texans. Not really a lot of more like like Crockett, he did he just We've covered this. Crockett had just shown up in town. Dude, how do you die? Yeah? Was he there? He was there? And I think he quit me too. I think he's surrendered. Yep. Texans don't like embrace Crockett. I don't think like some of the movies make the ALBUMO thing out to be,

Oh you're not. Oh see, I get a whole different Like Jesse Griffiths, he gets he gets visibly uncomfortable when he started talking about he's South Texan though, you know so yeah, so you guys are so so layout We're like, well, first of all, I cover out, we're gonna get to your Texas. You guys are both born in like actual Texas, real Texans. But then this is Jordan's Sailers first time. So are you pronounced your name Stillers? Stillers yea. I

used to think of Silers just from reading it too much. Stillers. It's actually a very uncommon last name. Uh, You're not You're you're barely even American. Man. Yeah, I live in Texas. Now I've been embraced. I've married into the state. You could say, born in Winnipeg, Canada. Up. Born in Winnipeg. Um, lived there for well, lived in Calgary, actually for five years in Alberta, and then moved to Texas when I was seven. And then we moved to Virginia when I

was eleven. Um, and that's where my parents still are. But now I live in Texas. Why were they Why were they doing all that moving around for my dad to go to grad school and then Virginia is where he found a job out of college. If you go, if you spend much time on our website, you've probably read many of Jordan's uh caliber battles, gun battles. Yeah,

that's me, he writes. The comparison contrast dude. The other day, I was actually doing a little comparison contrast research and I want to just from Google Search, I want to read one of your damn articles. Good, good, that's what we want. We want it showing right up there, showing right up. Yeah, I read it for real. Yeah. Yeah. I had a buddy just tell me the other day. He was like, I'm trying to figure out whether I forget. It was like three or eight or six five, and

I found this article. I started reading it and I looked up and I realized, hey, I know that guy. So yeah, trying to think about when I was digging into I think I was digging into the um two fifty seven weather be versus the the whether the man. I've written a lot of these. I'd have to look it at. There's like a twenty six on six right or something like that, Like, would it makes sense that I was comparing the two seven weather be with the six Yeah? I think so they're both caliber cost difference

on the AMMO. Yeah. Yeah, that's big. That's big. And that's something I think people don't often like think about when they're buying a gun. Yeah, and then they go try to buy m O and because it I think it has to be cheap enough to pray just with. You know, you want to be able to go out and practice with the gun. You're gonna you're gonna use hunting and if the AMMO is too expensive, you can't really do that. So how do you get when you're doing a caliber battle? How do you break it down? Uh?

So the first categories ballistics UM, which is just like how fast is the bullet going, what is it weigh what's the energy? Um? And then the second is shootability. So we talked about um the recoil, so we we say how much does it hurt your shoulder and your wallet? Um? So, how much does it recoil? And then how much does the AMMO cost? And then we look at versatility. It's the last one. You know what I think is the least shootable gun on the planet, even though I've owned

him and like them. Yeah is the seven? Yeah? How is? It doesn't make sense? It is the fastest punch to the head. It's like it's the most accelerated punch to your jaw comes so fast. Yeah, for a while I was shooting, is said, have a millimane or three s h and three SEV and H kicks, but it's like it takes five minutes for the kick to play out. Yeah, so it's not that bad. It's like yeah, yeah, it depends on the weight of the gun to seven MILLI like pop, that's what I was purchased as my first

deer off like nine years old. Oh yeah, it's like, why are my teeth? I'm surprised. I'm surprised you stuck with it. I'm a bone hunter now. The Yeah, so shootability, which is that yep? And then versatility. We talked about kind of the range of animals that can be taken with, which comes out on how many loads you can get for it. In some respects, Yeah, a lot of times

it's like the range of bullet weights. Um so if you have something that can go down to kind of those light varmint bullets and then up to like you know, elk and moose, then it's it has a good range. I was thinking today you should do like, um, like imagine it all that ship's like the playoffs? Right no, no, no, that was all regular season, right sports sports analogies, God bless you for trying to you know, someone should start

app it'd be a great app. Politicians will be able to use it and stuff where you type in the thing and then it generates a sports analogy. That's good. Yeah, So you could be like, if you're just trying to connect with the common man, I could use that. You can like type it in and it's spit out like a like a yeah, great sports analogy, new kind of yeah,

a new kind of AI. So to put into sports analogy, it has been the regular season, Yeah yeah, you're gonna have the playoffs and then you're gonna have the ind five so close and then you're gonna have Yeah. Yeah, I've thought about doing a kind of March Madness like Brackett, you know, just just to throw another analogy out there. Yeah. Yeah. It starts to be tricky because like if you're comparing like a like a twenty too long rifle, it's like

a three o eight. It's like it's hard to really but I think that you would wind up doing um, like you know, like small game. Yeah, there you go, different greatest of the greatest, like verse, you could do the greatest versatile big game gun. There you go, like you're gonna buy one of them, Lord knows, who knows what you're gonna go do with it. Yeah. Uh another question for it would be too late now Auxid already came out. Yeah, but you're you're you guys are working

on a big expose. Yeah, the beaver expose. Yeah, the beaver letter right yeah, um yeah, it's coming out today the day we're recording the podcast. So, um, you only just go into it, no, just give it a quick like a quick of course. Okay. Yeah. So um uh this letter from an organization called the Western Watersheds Project. They're gonna send a letter to the President Joe Biden, um requesting that he's uh past an executive order that bands beaver hunting and trapping on all federal public land

in the US. Um. So the article, we we're kind of going to break that down and and investigate that. So meaning uh one wildlife manager put it like, uh, you're taking a sledge hammer to an issue that requires a scalpel. Yeah. We had a little bit of chuckle about this. Can we just can we talk about this at all? Yeah? I think so what they're saying is there's some that they're they're saying that like, because of climate change issues, it's better to have more beavers out there.

Holding back more water. Um. But then simultaneous with them writing this letter is a out of reporting coming out of the Arctic where beavers are invading the Arctic because the climate change and they're exacerbating climate change because of their activities in the Arctic. So then here you have

these guys making this really ham handed. This gets this gets funny in the minute, making this very ham handed thing, like all federally managed public lands, well the American Arctic is I don't know what nine federally managed public lands. So you're saying to mitigate climate change, we're going to remove a tool you would use to address climate change. And then Jordan goes to them for comments and they're like, oh, we didn't really think about that. Hold on, will adjust

the letter? Yeah yeah. They they say they haven't seen the adjusted that they haven't seen the adjusted letter. Yeah yeah, which by the time, you know, by the time you're listening to this, maybe they've made those adjustments. But yeah, and I pointed, in our own state, you have very fine tuned management of the resource. And I counted up, so you have they're managed across seven regions. Eleven counties have closures. This is not a thing that they no

one's willy nilly about the management of the resource. Yeah, you have state for bear biologist, you know. I mean to be like, well, I'm gonna talk to him, President Biden, and he's going to end the whole thing. Yeah. No, do you people know what you're doing? Yeah, I mean they have a sound like, well they do. I mean,

that's pretty much what they say that. They have a line in the letter that talks about how state game agencies are kind of beholden to hunters, and that's why it's interesting that they say that Native they they feel that Native Americans would still be allowed to hunt beavers. Yeah, they because those ones, those beavers don't help climate change. Yeah, yeah, they have. Those beavers are not helpful. They have a few exceptions, one of which are our Native Americans. Yeah,

those beavers, like bro I was gonna hurt climate change. Um. Jordan's also a huge help on Cal's Weekend Review as well. So I just want to throw that out there, rock Star. Yeah, I've been I've been helping Cale with that podcast for a long time. That's really fun. Hunter Spencer's here. Tell him about the work you've been doing on the blue collar Scholars Uh. The Wild mill uh Wild milking Uh competition. Tommy Edson, the blue collar scholar, has been on the

show before as as a trivia guest. He thought he kicks acid trivia. We had him out. He got beat bad. I later learned that part of his secret is that he pauses to think, and explaining he pauses to think, so that's a problem. He is on a is the rodeo event I didn't know about where you hold down cows and milk him. Yeah. I think the guy like it. It looks like it's like a team of three or four.

I think two of them are supposed to be able to go out there and and rope it in some form or grab it by by the head, and whoever you can get And then you've got the guy that's got the milk you know the container. Um, Yeah, and whoever gets the milk fastest and sprints back to the judge. Yeah, he's got a team. He wanted. We're gonna sponsor his team. You know how much cost a sponsor his Wild Milk team Bucks. However, he says he's going to donate all the windings back that will roll into the l A.

I so we could come out ahead. Is he a raw milk drinker? That's a great question. I bet he gets a little in there. I'm just n no, Yeah, he might be at the bottom of the horse you so, uh yeah, yeah, there might be a gnome writing a wild Well, yeah, I want. I wanted to Hunter to be like, dude, you need to make a logo for his milk rodeo team. And then a Hunter was supposed to be doing normal stuffer his job. Someone found out, someone named Tracy found out that I've done this half

a plectic that I would have taken Tommy Wild. I was like, we need a logo for Tommy's Wild Milk team. And then I later learned you're supposed to have You had other stuff you're supposed to be working on. But it's the it's our nome friend riding a big milk and cow with a jug of milk, and it's bucking. He's riding a bucking milk cow. Ye celebratory lap around

the ring with his h jugging milk. Dude. I think that people are gonna when we when we finished that T shirt, that's gonna be a hot selling T shirt. It's gonna be I don't know if it messes up Tommy that his team will have a shirt that's like widely available to the public. I think it'll go on an audience sports put this into the sports analogy. We're going back to that that that professional sports players. You drank milk when you win the ND five. D Oh

you do it? Champagne? Yeah, champagne. No, there's like all milk drinking thing. Yeah, it's like, yeah, if your leg tols a tolerant or allergic to dairy milk. We gotta put the bottom of the horseshoe on that shirt and then it'll be very applicable when people show you what's on a dollar bill, all the crazy ship and symbolism on there, you know, like the yeah, I'll have a little horseshoe on there and people are looking at it. You know what that means, don't you? Um? Okay, keep

the guys from the Element are here. Can you guys introduce yourselves. Then we gotta do a couple of things that we're gonna dig in heavy duty. I'm Tyler Jones, and um, I've got two kids in a while, and I like to bow hunt deer. There you go, yeah, says it all Um Casey Smith and Tyler Jones took my answer. So, yeah, Texas. You guys each have a wife and two kids yesterday, and you both like to hunt deer. Absolutely, so we're gonna we're gonna spend a

bunch of time with the with Tyler Casey. But if you go into YouTube whatever type in the element, you'll find find a lot of these guys, uh dear bow hunting materials all over the place. Do a little bit of that of Texas land public well some no, yeah, a little bit. Um. What's kind of how we had to start. Not to say a lot of Texas public land is a little bit a misnomer there. Yeah, well just uh that's where we kind of started doing this

stuff and filming and all that, because you had to. Yeah, it's what's close to home, and we're kind of priced out of the leasing game, you know, So that's what we started doing together. Old I started hunting public land and Texas when I was about toil Thank for white tails. Yeah. I grew up duck hunting public around mostly that's what that's. My dad owns a fishing lodge on like fork and you know, naturally there's the birds around. So grew up

hunting like fork for ducks, and you guys both got started. Yon, Yeah, I was probably. I started warter fou hunting about eight so deer hunting next year after that, and bo hunting about sixteen. That's great, we're gonna dig into that. We gotta talk. So Cran, you want to talk abou the bottom of the Horseshoe. Okay, the guy rode in. You're gonna do it? Oh you just you just didn't you just say that. I'd love it if you did it. No, I don't want to do it. You need to practice.

You need to practice. Present here we go. Do you want me to do it? I think you should do it. I think it's funnier if you do it. Yeah, you'll be reading the list out loud and chuckling about it. So we had an episode called lung King. Oh it was named after the liver King, but I think there was there like a big liver King expose. Oh yeah, he's totally up. Everybody knows that. I mean, just look,

he had ad implants. He did that too. He was just a really heavy socle and was saying, you know, all the raw meat was what was making him big. Fellow Tex for sure, yeah, I should have had him in here. Well, you know what I need to talk about? Can you hear me from it? I forgot a whole thing top about Tommy Edson. He like he like like he's like Seth and he seems to be like he's always shopping for a boat, like perpetually shops for boats. How many does he own? I don't know one. I

don't know. He's always shopping for boats. He sent me. I gotta I gotta slightly edit this. He sent me a boat listing for a boat that's up for sale right now on offer up. Does he want need to check to see if it's like legit? No, I gotta edit it because it's um. Remember in the movie Spinal Tap, he gets accused of being sexes, but he doesn't know what it means and thinks he says, what's wrong with being sexy? No, didn't see a spinal Tap. It's in my top five movies of all time. I gotta slightly

eye at this. Tommy sent me this boat he wants. This boat listed is my sixteen foot tracker deep v pro. This boat is a fish killing bastard. It should be outlawed. And forty nine of fifty states, why not all fifty because no one fishes in California. Here's the thing, though, I looked it up this morning. California has twice as many fishermen as Washington. California has just over two million fishermen. Washington has less than a million. It's easy, my mom,

I was, I was watching. My mom gets news only from one place, Like she only watches Fox News because it doesn't even go read other news like that elsewhere. So in her mind, the news is what they cover. She said to be there morning, we're watching Fox News, and she said this countr would be a lot better if they got rid of New York California. And I said, what do you mean, mom, because of the crime. Yes,

So I said, well, let's take a look. So I started researching violent crime and I didn't spend much time on it, but I found one thing that's like, Mom, if you're gonna ditch states because of violent crime, you gotta get rid of Arkansas. First. Well, I don't know about that. I was like, here's filer crime per hundred thousand people, and there you can't even like like if I was like, California's like eleven. Oh, there's a lot of hate, a bunch of people like Clay running around

in Arkansas. Crime that is an oxym. I'm not gonna read the rest of it. It's a great boat description, but just strive me like how just casually you can throw hate their way. You know, facts be damned not to mention it's a huge large mouth bass fisher. That'll tell you. Yeah. We had a big conversation with two airline pilots on the way over yesterday, one of them

from California, and we were names. Um. We were just talk about word from and we told him kind of what we did and he was like, oh, yeah, I know some people at fish or something like that. You know. So the pilot says, you, where are you from? Yeah? We and we we talked about like four yeah, because people know we're like four yeah. Yeah. To give you the little wings that you can pin under your used to give it out with peanuts. But my kids, when I was a kid, I had that on the wall.

I had this, they do I've been seen one since I was a child. Well there's a reason for that. Do you ask the tour of the cockpit, I do not. I'm the long King episode. We got to talking about the bottom of the horse shoe, where the right and the left come back together and meet. You're following me, like picture of horse shoes, hang with the open end up, and he's like, the political right the political left, Well, there's areas where they get along at the bottom of it.

This guy says, I've worked in politics in various shapes and forms for more than fifteen years, and working in a legislative office. A number of staff members have noticed this phenomenon over the years based on the context we have received in our office. Here's some of the topics to include pro raw milk, let's go, pro home schooling, anti five G, anti fluoride and water, pro home baked

and other goods. Wait, but the parenthetical statement parenthetical for sale at farmers market and not prepared and an inspected commercial kitchen. I get that carrot cake and banana bread from the hutter rights all the time at the local Anti contrails, chemtrails, COVID you and Agenda one, natural pathic doctors,

and essential oils. So when I write my book called the Bottom of the Horseshoe, which is an exploration of where we how areas where we all get along, we'll be able to include those in there on raw milk another man, So there was was there a lot of a lot of raw milk? A lot of feedback? Guys says, I like the perspective of Dr Reisman on episode four O nine. Is refreshing to hear doctor questions some of

the norms without being a pseudo scientist quack. I grew up farming and we always drank fresh, raw milk for practical reasons. I never thought much of it until I fell in love with and married a city girl. When we settled down and started a family, naturally, I bought a cow, as one does pretty quickly float Pretty quickly, folks, including my wife, had me questioning whether it was safe for my children to drink the milk from my cow.

One day, I was on the phone feeling guilty with a farmer friend, debating if I wasn't irresponsible parent because I was giving my kids raw milk. Can I interject real quick? My dad would bring home raw milk and we called it cow's milk. He's like, it's all cow's milk, But for some reason in our head, raw milk is cow's milk to be differentiated from milk, which came from heaven like the suck he brought home. Dude had like

grass floating it. Man, it was his body was a dairy farmer named Mr Overley, and he brought home milk. You had like this milk? Would like separate out right? Um back to the letter. As I was standing there on the phone, my one point five year old son was crawling around the are next to me. I was pretty stressed out when I looked down to try and figure out what my son was so focused on. As I watched him, he was crawling behind the barnyard ducks

with a determined look on his face. As the ducks would take a ship, he would quickly grab it up and eat it, then proceed to continue following the ducks, obviously looking for more. I cut my friend off on the phone and said, he says a naughty word here. He said, to hell with it. The milk is not going to hurt him. It's good thinking. Have your kids ever eating duck poop? One time we were squirrel hunting, and my daughter we told the story last night at

the dinner table, We're duck hunting. I turned around. My dag's spitting yeah, eating dear ship. Look like little chocolates and I was like rosy eating this and I held up for dear ship and she's it looked brown M and m' you got you got you guys ready for ethics one. Absolutely, it's about tree stance song and put it to the I'm gonna put it to the to the element. Boys here, why you why are you justtured towards your colleague, because we've had some experience with this

and you'll have some good anecdotal thoughts here. Do you guys know we we have a thing called Chatticotte, which is Chester. If you combine Chester and etiquette, chat makes sense. That's one of our favorite things today is to find two words. Yeah, we did all time. Also, if you have a series of three words, will take the first letter of each of those and yeah, which happens more often than you think in the English language, like little buck down. Yeah, there's a like a an adjective, a noun,

and a verb. It's a thing that happens in the English language. So yeah, like h b H yeah or b h A. They have a new one for that. They're telling me this morning. Shoot at guys. Yeah, So there's this like orzation out there called b h A. Are you familiar with it? It's called the Bozeman Had Association. So it's you and this is Tyler's by the way, this is how you came up with this. He's the genius here. But like there's a certain membership here in

Bozeman of hat wearers that are unlike other places. Right, So, like if you're a member of the Bozeman Had Association, there's a couple of qualifications, a couple of what do they call them, um, you know, different groups within the group, right, um. But there's like the flat bill like cowboy hat but not that's kind of felt. And then there's like another cowboy hat but not it's like Montana like that wolf

felt kind of hat. Yeah, like Indiana Jones head yeah kind of yeah yeah yeah, but I mean a lot of gals wear that I guess would be like, oh yeah, will wear it for sure. Yeah. It's it's got a bigger brand than in Fedora. Yeah yeah yeah. And then it's kind of like yeah, it's like you're kind of half hopping through the Daisies kind of half Western yeah yeah, yeah,

yeah yeah, those are members of the Daisies. And then there's like maybe like a a chet hat or somebody like that that has like it's kind of like the fly fish and hat that has a rope across you know, kind of the between the bill and the top there. In other words, when we were at d f W, that's not that's an Austin hat bro Well those places there are h members in Austin. For the Branch Act.

We knew the gate that we were supposed to be in just by looking at the v h A. Membership at the gate W changed a few times and we followed the we have to see what because yeah, the rope pad is retro you're like harkening back to a simpler time when old men had those hats like that cat usually one by people who can't remember those times. Actually the second hand information, no, I think they're a little aware that it's like harkening back to a different times.

There's all of the that there's a t T bit of irony. M hmm. Irony makes it fun for sure. Yeah. Yeah, So those are the two main categories. Yeah, those are two main ones. And and then there's like a bridge between all that where it's like if it has a little bit of like jade on it or something like that. You know what like that whatever the bluestone is, um, you know kind of a design turise turquoise, yeah, not turquoise. Yeah.

What about when you you get yourself a king rope pad even though you've never been within fifty ft of a of a of a rope being used. I'm not faguing with a king Rob Pad. What does that? Somehow I don't understand it. Well, it's a company that makes roping ropes. Okay, yeah, but if you like to ski a lot, you get yourself a king rope pat as though you're roping. Well, there's a little bit of correlation. You do a little more, Yes, got to spend more time.

Deal You're you're you're definitely assuming that being a text it makes you cowboy. That's what they're talking about, the king Rob pad. If you google it, it's exactly what they're talking about. That. Like with the it's like a little flat where the forehead is, and then it's like a shorter bill and there's a rope across and it's like two toned, often including corduroy. Got you so skiers

do that? Here? It means you like to ski a lot? Okay, which is weird because there's a big ski area here near here called Big Sky, and if you go to the hotel there, they don't dress up like their skiing. They dress up like their cattle ranchers. They make the valets and stuff dress like their cattle ranchers. When you're sort of like the antithesis, it's the throwback still second information. There's like a thing it would be like if you were at a place trying to think of it. Put

this into the sports analogy. Let's go to be up to work in Big Sky with a cattle rancher outfit on would be like if you worked at Peda and wore a ink coat. Mm hmm. That's not sports. No, it's different. You guys right for this check question. I have a cheka question to submit to the council. But you guys are honorary right now. I hung a climb and stand on public land in October, about a mile from the road. I killed a buck from it. In November.

I hunted one day in early I'm already getting confused. I gotta back up. I didn't I was gonna get this complicated. Those dates don't matter too much. I hung a no, No, I'm paying attention to Sometimes I go into things thinking the not complicating. I hung a climb and stand on public land in October a mile from the road, killed a buck from it in November. I hunted one day in early December. Guess track. Up to that point, I had seen no sign of other hunters

in the area. After each set, I left the stand at the bottom of the tree. I hunted today and when I got to my stand, someone had hung a climber. I love it. Yeah, I'm sorry. Today when I got to my stand, so I had hung a climber in the same tree above my stand. I love it, dude, I've never heard of that happening. I had to unhook my stand and reattach it above the other stand to climb the tree. That's a great story. I ended up shooting a dough right at dusk and climbed down in

a hurry because it wasn't sure how good the hit was. Well, it doesn't make a help less sense. True. It depends on where you here. Yeah, whatever, whatever about the story. Maybe you want to just go look at their Maybe you need something we don't. I intended to put my stamp. I like that that you're sticking up for the guy. It's good. So you're not like people on social media. No matter what you do, they find a problem. You

should be liked. Be great social media for Sona. Instead of being like, I wouldn't skin it that way, I wouldn't do that that way, be like, um, just be like a kind of guy who goes on social in the comments to actually be like, uh, you know, really interesting. I'm sure he had a wonderful I'm sure he had a great justification for the way he did it. No, he's a supportive soul. He does youth ministry. Yea sometimes Uh probably am just being nice because you know, who knows?

Who knows? Uh, you have a what's the comment that um that guy made on So we have a pretty viral video of Tyler shooting a big buck at a long range and smoked it right, But it's still there's always somebody who's like, oh, it's the guts, you know, it's kind of ridiculous. But this dude was like, it wouldn't matter if you smoked a deer he died inside. You use the same broadhead to skin him and gut even packed him out on your back. There'd be somebody

telling you use the wrong product. Yeah, okay, So back to our back to our individual the lead the tree stand leap froggers. I ended up shooting a doll right at dust and climbed down in a hurry because I wasn't sure how good the hit was. I intended to put my stand back. I intended to put my stand back on the bottom, thinking the other hunter would probably the next one he used the tree, but in the heat of the moment, I forgot. So now he has left his stand on top of the other man stand.

So my question is, what is the move if someone does this? Have I potentially escalated the situation by leap frogging the others hunters stand after he leap frogged mine, goes on, I'm gonna I'm gonna go on. He has a couple of clarifying points. I have a toddler and pregnant wife at home. Here he's playing the sympathy card, so I rarely get the scout hunt. I've also killed two deer from this stand, and I'm not eager to

give up my spot. I'm happy to share its public land, but I'm not sure what my next move should be. I should point out that none of my stuff was bothered or stolen, so take that into consideration when assessing potential etiquette violations. I got a lot to safe, would take it away. I love this question man um. Sometimes without getting too deep tactically, the tree is the tree. You have to be in that tree to kill deer

in that spot. I feel like as a bow hunter with a gun, it's a little less maybe so, but I can see I've actually been in this this position before the leap froggerum or the leap frog. So I killed a deer from a tree in and the next year there was a tree stand in that tree. And you can't claim a spot in the state with a tree stand. You can you can legally hunt somebody else's tree stand if they're not there. So, but this is the tree, and this state does not have a lot

of trees in it. So it's one of those situations where I have continue to hunt that tree some um. But I don't know, it's just, uh, it's it's really like as far as what he's asking, um, I mean, you never know if you're gonna escalated situation. You don't know what that guy's thinking, right, So Um, you try not to, certainly, but it's kind of weird when guys are walking around with deadly weapons out in the woods

and you don't know what their demeanor is, you know. Um, I just think that if there's nothing messed up, this is the same it's the same situation like leaving trail cameras out you you, you know, try to be respectful of other people's trail cameras and hope that they do the same for you. You see, Guys, we actually had a guy moon our trail cameras the other day. Understand that. Yeah, yeah, I've I like that movie. Um, but yeah I don't. I'm like, I know what's going on out here in

the woods. People do time White till by the moon, So maybe he was given This guy's situation is like an ethical net zero. I don't think there's any wrong done in any of this that he's talking about. Now, I can see where if he's I'm assuming this guy is honest because I don't know him, so I'd like to assume that, Um, if he's honest, that he didn't mean to like, you know, stack the stand on top the other guy. Then you know whatever, I think. I

like these two guys A lot. I think that you would do it like I have a Like many guys. I argue with my wife about toilet seat, I always feel like, uh, I think that each user should position it for their use according to the immediate need. Like that's what I do. If I come in and find the seat down, I adjust it according to what I'm gonna do. I don't go like, well it's down now, I have to live with it being down and then p on the seat. So I adjusted ahead of time,

and I'm migrant. Why don't you? I tell my wife, why don't you make these adjustments as need be and not a plan on other people, anticipating who might use it next, and then leave it fit for them to what She'll point out that, like sitting down. If you make a mistake and sit down when the seats up,

it's bad, it's not good. I could see him, if he's really trying to I could see him taking my wife's approach to toilet seat placement and being an extra gentleman and move your movie or stand back down to the bottom. I think I really appreciate you, like it's all ready for you, my friend. Neither of these guys touched each other stands. Well, that's what I was gonna say.

It's like, we know that the guy that wrote it in is considered, but it seems as if potentially the other guy was too, because he could have taken that guy's stand off and just laid it by the trade. But he didn't take his off. But it could have been the same situation this guy that if forgot too, because it's not a natural thing. If you plan on leaving a stand, you don't usally take it off the tree and put it back on again under another stand But I'm just saying if he wanted to go extra.

But see, the thing I would worry about is I would worry about psychologically. I would want him to know that I'd been there and got one. So I could picture taking my stand, moving it down, putting his up, and then maybe scratching like a little notch or something, and then have a little note that says I scratched this not I make a notch every time I get a deer. Here. Notice there's two fresh notches. So that that person doesn't go thinking, you know, I'd want him

to know who he's dealing with, cold blooded killer. You could have a a yearly banter back and forth, just you just keep up with it out the same tree, you know. It kind of like, let's have a little journal and share our experiences. Especially if it's annymous. You never actually meet the guy. He's just a hypothetical dude who hung the stand. You know, they won't really know until they both walk out there someday at three o'clock and they both like there they are, Then they're gonna

have to start it out. I think actually was that that's a good rom comment the making. We had a guy right in one time that was having one of these disputes of someone and one day there's like two trees kind of together, and he's up in one and the guy comes and I mean literally climbs up right behind him, and they sat quite awkwardly, him looking out one way and the guy looking out the other way. Yeah. One of our camera guys in Illinois last year, same thing.

They sat like twenty yards from each other. Yeah, it's like the second guy is just there to ruin the experience for the first guy so that he doesn't come back. It's kind of silly. Yeah, not my favorite. It kind of ruins it for me, though, like too. Uh, And I'm not a big like who who kind of experienced guy too much. I just like to hunt here, but um,

it does. I don't like to sit in another person stand in particular, like one time in a tree, a person and used screens, So we're gonna take those out and be hard to hang my own steps in the tree. So I used the screens, but then hung my own stand next to the stand that was in the tree, partially because I don't like the position that I was in better than the way he'd hung it. But I just don't like sitting on it, and you don't. There's

like a safety factor too. You don't know if this person is using you know, from you're pretty safe, Yeah, usually his and safety is my number one concerned. Yeah, it's kind of weird. We're gonna do one last thing. We're gonna talk about one last thing before we talk about what we're gonna talk about. Uh, this guy's thought about you know, I don't know uh what I'm trying

to say. I thought about having him on the show before because I read this book guy wrote in about a bad experience he had with one of his works on Amazon recently, Um, about what he's you know, I don't know if it's is its censorship. I guess it's censorship. Censorship let me at the end of the day. Yeah, yeah, people confuse their's censorship like First Amendment censorship that would come from the government, right, and then there's just private

companies doing what private companies want to do. So meaning if someone wrote a big article about how all the reasons that like hunting should be outlawed, and we said, I'm I don't feel like publishing that article on our website. That's not gonna it's I don't that's not gonna go over well where they'd be like, you're censoring me. You'd be like, no, it's just we have It's like we own our own thing and we just do with our

own thing what we want. I'm not censoring you. It's more like their standards for what is acceptable and allowable are you know, questionable. We're talking about organization that sits one rung below the government, which is Amazon. Given another thirty years, I think they're coming. They're like they're sort of you know, like how our military will have that the red phone to the Chinese military, they probably have like a red emergency phone. Talking between Amazon and the government.

So the guy goes on to write, in my newest book, more than Wolverine, an Alaska wilderness trap line on the cover. He's got a there's a picture of him holding the wolverine trapped in the in the bush, no blood, no gore, animals, harvest responsibly found, state regulations displayed in a respectful manner. He had an ad campaign for an Amazon canceled My ad campaign blows their message following my appeal kind of blew me away. Anybody, just heads up when designing your

future book covers. M Hello from Amazon Advertiser Support. When we were seeved your ad campaign more than Wolverine, we determine that your cover contains images of excessive violence. The image contains graphic depictions of cadavers m hm. And also not just that, and also we determine that your ad contained violent content. To ensure a good customer experience, we don't allow ads containing images of human or animal abuse, mistreatment,

or distress. Because your ad uses the cover image on your book, you'll need to update the cover of your book in order to be eligible for Amazon advertising. A quick note, I had something about this kind of burned my ass here to day. One of our senators in Montana has his profile picture. It's him and his wife, Senator Danes. It's him his wife and an antelope. So

him and his wife with an antelope. And he got booted off Twitter, which just struck me as weird because the whole thing with Elon must Buy and Twitters, they're supposed to quit screw with everybody about like stupid stuff. Anyways, his thing got reinstated. I put the picture up on it on Instagram, so I thought it was interesting that that is excessive violence. Yeah, I read the musk. Reached out to him personally to talk about it. Yeah, Kal thought I was being stupid. It's like, what's the Elon

must have to do with this? I said, well, I don't know if you've been following this with somebody. It's like, I think your account got hacked. Dude, he bought Twitter. The whole thing is he's gonna make Twitter not cracking down on everybody all the time for like like totally objective or sorry for totally subjective stuff. And then I sent him a headline that says that he put it back, made it back right again. I said, ha, that's what

I wrote, I put like multiple exclama. If you look at three of them in there, things you'll get dinged for as bad as Facebook is. If say they've got a list of fifteen things Instagram, maybe like eight. You get to Twitter and it's probably like a list of twenty and fractions, you know, from alcohol to one down

the line, you know, for getting restricted on. Oh, but I have a book I have so I have books published with I feel like it's like, I don't Well, you've got a book that in particular makes me think of this guy's situation. Well, I have two books. I have a book of holding a grailing. It's a vertebrate. I'm holding it a grailing that's no longer alive. So it's where I have a turkey, right, another vertebrate sentient being no longer alive, published by the world's biggest book publisher,

Penguin Random House. Uh, but then they they messed with this, dude, what's your what's your? Don't you have a thing about eyelashes? You know? If the animal has I forgot about my own rule? I wonder I wonder if us calling this out on this podcast will have uh, you know, we'll get some kind of Amazon message about those books being up and maybe needing to be taken down, and then Hunter will have to redesign a cover of you like

cuddling a turkey that's alive, like animal like thing. To us bringing it up was gonna flag my books, not fix this guy's situation. Maybe. Yeah, I guess I have not too much hope When I sent Cal the article that that um after a little bit of public pressure, Senator Gaines's Twitter account got put back up with his grip and grind of his antelope, and Cal said, did they credit you when they they they had pointed out

they had pointed out ted Ted Cruz. That's like stolen valor on Ted Cruizes to have because it was me mans stolen valid. What was the nature that was that? A profile picture change that triggered it or put up a new profile picture of him? Is why for then antelope not a speck of blood to be seen? You could almost thought the animope was still alive if you

don't know what you're looking at. Yeah, So what you what you take Hunter as a designer, Well, we could do a whole podcast on this, but I mean the situations that we've run into and it's kind of even hard to quantify because it doesn't make sense. But so for example, if I had a shot of you in the field with a meat crafter and we used it in an ad versus a shot of a meat crafter on a cutting board, one's getting dinged. One isn't the

same exact thing promoting the same exact thing. But contextually, I've taken out out of one situation into another because it looks like I'm fixing the knife someone yea or or or you're you're using it in a in a violent way, you know, be it, you know, skinning. So you're saying like, if you have a picture of a piece of raw meat, right, or let's say a deer's leg and you're making an opening cut a dude being in there, it's bad. But if it's a knife in

an opening cut in a culinary sense, you're fine. Um. I was talking to Ben Rummery about this and a couple other situations like f HF has a lot of trouble because older always in trouble because it's all things that are accessories to modify a weapon. So you're promoting the use or sale of a weapon. UM I mean like if you have a little bullet holster, yeah, or a little cartridge holder. The worst one is the bear

spray holster. No, whether you show it in the field or you just show because it's harming the bear as opposed to saving potentially saving your own life. Pepper spray. Oh, pepper spray. Yeah. What So that's like one of the ones at the top that nobody even bothers doing because they're thinking of pepper spray being used in like a militious sort of environment rather than like for protections. I would assume yeah, yeah, Um. Now here's one that's puzzling.

Um that we were talking about this morning was obsidian pants for the longest time would get dinged. And what ends up happening is so when they go just a plane picture someone, Yeah you don't have to show. Yeah, the ad could just be of the pant. But I think what I guess it happened over time is when they go to scan that ad, they're also checking the landing page to where that ad is taking you to.

So if that it was you know, the city, and pant takes you to a page where that you in a hunting situation, then that gives them cause to paying that ad. So it's it's not just visually what that ad looks like, but it's a lot of times you know,

the loophole where it's taking you too. Yeah, because the way that they justify those is you don't want to be scrolling through necessarily and see something that is offensive you don't like, right, But if they're also looking at the landing page, that says it's about the product itself, not just your user experience. Correct, correct, Like we've never we don't seem to have issues promoting Vortex in a sense when you're not necessarily showing it on a weapon. However,

sig no go. And I don't know if that's tied to because of it being uh, you know, they're thinking in terms of you know, the I mean rifle and stuff like that, pistols, right, So I don't know if Vortex gets Vortex makes optics and optics right, and that could be for you know, golf, birding, whatever. There's got

to be some kind of workaround. Is there like a universal symbol or visual of a thing that is like so neutral or like, I don't know, a box of lucky charms and we just put that in the background of every picture that we put up. Yeah, until they find out, until General Mills comes out to you. Yea. Um, but yeah, it's it's Traine. I mean you just eventually

kind of learned, you know. Ah, I mean it's it's it makes it a little tough in certain situations, Like I said, with like rifle slings and things like that. I mean, how do you how do you promote or use that? Um? Uh? Yeah. The meat crafter was definitely, uh a unique and tough one. So a lot of times I'll just take my own meat crafter and photograph it. You know. She'd called the tofu crafter promoted for you absolutely. See, man, you know what the problem is, Like, I got like

two things that are happening at the same time. I'm getting older and Ship's getting more ridiculous. And when you're older, you get less tolerant or ridiculous stuff. And I feel like at trajectory if you're just on an exponential Yeah, it's a war on Christmas. It's like that's like you know what I mean, I'm there. I'll probably say it not as a joke next year, you know what I mean? Like the besieged feeling, Yeah, but it's like that plays in are gonna be on a balcony like Steller and

waldor from the mupp That's just me a brody. But I started to think called besiege the old Men. But that's a good point about the grailing, because it does make me wonder, like visually, you know, I don't recall any dangs with anything spear fishing related, you know any Yeah, no eyelashes. What if you shave the eyelashes off your deer? Now you're gonna do it? Yeah, here's a trip watch this transition. Do you guys ever get in trouble at the element for stuff you put on the Internet? Yeah,

I mean mean by trouble like just flash demonetized. I dealt with Google for weeks one time, and of course the people I'm in touch with are foreign and the I mean, I couldn't figure out why our ads weren't running, and essentially just came to my own conclusions that it was being censored. There was no I was never told that it's you know what I mean, like algorithm in

the AI. It's just and the people on the other end of the line could never tell me that either, for they don't they don't know exactly right, Yeah, so I just came to a conclusion that way we would stop running ads pretty much. There's other individual times to where a certain video of the demonetized and a personal appeal would change that. So that get flagged by AI for having something. And then if you send in the

you know, we eat all the meat. You know, you you you give a personal appeal to justification of what you're doing it it would work. You know a lot of times what you guys used to do pred your control work. As me tell about that, Clay, Clay told me to ask you about it, all right, thanks Clay. I worked for the government, which is just a red flag, right,

but I like state or apist our for a fist. Yeah, well so we're try funding so um, A portion of the funding for me as a state trapper came from APHIS support, portion came from the state which was Wildlife Services, and a portion incomes from the county that I worked within. Do we just clarify what APHIS stands for and we'll plant Health Inspection Service. Yeah, we've had some We've had

some APIs big wigs on the show. Yeah. If this has got some cool people over there, man, yeah, and it was like, the thing we brought up is that they don't they don't get credit for they don't get credit for a lot of good work they do. People just take some stuff they do and make it seem like as controversial as possible. But then they eliminate invasive neutrius from Chesapeake Bay and yeah, exactly, it's how weird.

But so I was pretty much a glorified county trapper, you know what it is is used to these uh counties would just fun to trapper, just old guy you know around there, just trapped. And in the South, trapp is different because we don't have a fur market too much, you know, coons, maybe raccoons whatever, um, and so uh, coyotes don't really have pelts that are worth anything. Um. So it's strictly for livestock protection pretty much. And then you throw the hogs in. In the last thirty years

that have become more of an issue. Um. That's I spent probably eighty percent of my time on hogs and coyotes. And then uh, the other rest of that would be like disease monitoring for avian flu or neutria or uh, you know, some ladies losing their cats in South Houston. You can go figure out what's going on there. There was disease monitoring with the hogs. To your Yeah, there was. That was kind of cool that. That was one of my favorite parts. Where so we used to do aerial

operations with hogs, with the helicopter stuff. But um, with like you know, a purpose, I guess. And who are you working for doing hogs? Uh? Freface? So you were shooting hogs from helicopter? Uh so I was not a gunner in that scenario. Now that what were you doing from a helicopter? Um, that's a different um job I had. Actually, so I was a state trapper and then previously and this is actually one of the things I put on my on my resume to kind of help me get that job as I was a I don't know what

you call it. It's a pretty much Yeah, I'm a guy told me things to ask you about. They're gonna bleed together in a minute. Yeah. Good. So. Um, I was a game capture specialist, I guess. So, you know, the exotic industry is a big thing in Texas. So we got exotics, especially in the western half of the state. There's exotics trying out a lot of portions state and so there they are treated like talking dancers. Right, yeah, I guess I don't know what is that? What do

you mean you don't tell me? Oh no, okay, okay, so azotic specialists. Uh so, yeah, I'll clarify. Um, exotic game animals and not a game animals too. Um caught some weird things, but um, there's a big industry for those.

They're treated as livestock in Texas according to the Texas um AD Commissioner or whatever, so you can freely transport them around the state and out of state too, out of country even um so, um, we pretty much would go out and we're glorified cattle wranglers except for rounding up you know, game animals mostly odd ad access in black Buck, but a lot of other stuff too, for people that wanted them out of certain areas or the

wanted them into certain areas all that. Yeah. Um so, Usually the common scenario was a landowner has a plethora of exotic game on their property, usually low fence. Uh. Our company would pay them per head of different game animals we caught, and then we were kind of a peddler of those animals. We would then find a high fenced operation that wouldn't want those animals and then sell

them to them and release them there. So the motivation on the motivation on the part of the landowner that has them might be a they want a bunch of them gone, be they just want to make some money off the resource, or see both. Usually it was a lot more of b yeah, a little bit a little bit of sea mixed in there, but um guy's wheeling and dealing. Yeah. Man, money is what drives everything, you know,

especially in Texas huge economy. U's Texas is the ninth or tenth largest economy in the world if you even look at national scales, So like the state of Texas is like a national player when it comes to world economy. So that translates to a lot of money in the state,

but also a very economically minded, like average citizen. So those people are like, yeah, sure, I'll let you fly helicopter in my place and catch sixty animals for three dollars ahead, you know, and then but there's a pretty hey be turnover there, or like the margins are good, you know, especially for bigger animals, so you guys would come in and contract on it. Yeah, we'd uh, and so are you usually? Are you usually employed by the um. You don't have to get specifics with your industry but

with your particular outfit. But the way, I just curious how the industry works. So like you, what do you? What do you are? You guys gett a percentage of sale a per animal thing. You're hired by the guy that wants them. You're hired by the guy that wants to get rid of him. So I got a daily rate.

I was, you know, just a hand pretty um. And so my old boss in this, uh, he ran a business that offered these services, and then usually the helicopter service was a different service that we would combine with. So the pilot kind of had his own bird and then we would team up with him. There would be a net gunner, a pilot, and then a ground crew. And I ran ground crew a lot until we went out west and did all that stuff. And so, h um, there's pretty much like it is a contracted service to

a landowner. And then I'm paid a daily rate. Yea. Yeah, So you swoop down. Let's say you're what was the most common an Emily dealt with, I'd say access to here, Yeah, they come in on a helicopter, come down, pah, landing, Uh, throwing net on it, shooting net onto It is that hard to get a hit right, Uh depends on the guy. It's hard to get good at but when you're good at it. Man, my buddy Chobvy he was. He was good good net gunners skill. Yes, yeah, very much obtained it.

It's kind of cool. They ran a single shot blank three O eight pistol and they have like a fabricated netgun cage that goes in the front of it. You have these four little weights that you know, one at each corner of the of the net and pound and then that thing just lies out there and the moving shot yea. And the other cool thing is the the talent of the pilot. Man. Some of those pilots are just insane because they're running at our twenty two, which

is really uh, what's the route where the very maneuverable helicopter. Um, it's a two s eat, very light weight and man,

they could just do some insane stuff. And what they're doing is they're like not only getting the guy on the animal, but they're positioning the animal to where the guy has a good shot and they're kind of directing animal to a certain direction, all while avoiding live oak trees and mesquites, and they're flying below deck man like they are like in the stuff, you know, they're not like. You can't shoot a netgun from a hundred foot up.

You gotta be probably and somebody probably knows better than me, But just in my experience, looking like forty ft or less, it's kind of where you want to be. It seemed like the shoot a little higher, but it's harder the higher you get because you're losing velocity and the animal can move more. Stuff like that, and when that that net gets them that their legs get tangled up whatever. Usually yeah, and antlered or horn critters are way easier

because you got another thing to get. Yeah, and then the ground coop runs in and you tranquilize it or you don't even bother to it. That's a different thing. It's the thing we do. But um, the anytime there's neck gun, you just stir hog time them pretty much three around three legs, leaving one leg done. You know,

a little half it's there. Usually leave the net on them unless it's easy to get off, and then you just put them in the back of like a UTV or something like that and take them back to a trailer. Do you blindfold them? Sometimes? Uh, different animals stress worse than others. Um, black buck, we're kind of bad about being stressed. Access are pretty tough addad never blindfolded alldad there, they're just toughest goats, you know. So it just goes on whether or not that thing is gonna get so

freaked out of die yea. Yeah, the African game really except for all that which are African game, but planes game, I'll say it that way. Planes game is really finicky, which black bucking access are not high stream there. Yeah. Yeah, they're high strung so like um, and they're expensive too. So one time we lost a will the Beast, which was a pretty expensive loss, you know, and it was stressed and it was even tranquilised it's still and it's

still stressed. So that's an expensive animal, fairly expensive. They're super exotics um and wilderbeast is kind of like boring on that because it's a little rarer in the scheme of exotics. But like you look at like a games buck or a z or or a giraffe or a cudo or addicts, like you're kind of in that super exotics type range there. Yeah, yeah, and then those we would usually tranquilize because tranquilization is a little safer and

easier on the animal. But with the African game, tranquilization is a little finnick. You're more finicky because you had to be really precise with your dosage, which I wasn't licensed to do that, so I was, you know, just observing this stuff, but I would see it. Uh you know,

it could go bad pretty easy. And some of those things are worth like the animals worth like eight nine thousand bucks, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, Like you take like a sable um, that's a I mean back then that was like a twenty animal and that's this ten years ago, So he's worth that alive. Yes, not just to a hunter. You have to a hunter. You're talking a big turnover there, especially a big one. I know, the ar thing Clay told me to ask you about. Tell me about it.

You got your pant leg hung up on a Yeah, I got your pant leg hung up on a one time. I did, Man, do you story on this? Let me grab a drink of water here, because this is a white whistle for this one, Ladies jump whistle. That's right. Um, So this is kind of cool because it's like one of the first few times I felt like we had

a greater objective than just economic stuff. So we were working in West Texas, um, and the big horn restoration stuff is a big deal in West Texas, and there's a ton of addad that inhabit native big horn range. Uh So what we were doing was a captured in eradication of addad so they could come in and restock native big horns. Those two things conflict, I'm sure for resources and probably for what's the ovis flu or whatever

it is that there's some sickness right, the pneumonia. Yeah, yeah, so I'm sure they conflicted this from uh moves from domestic sheep species into big horns, and that as much as as much as market hunting like that decimated big horns. Yeah, I could see that being the case because there odd ad are roamers where I've never hunted big horn had spent much time with the before to understand they don't move as much, right, I mean, is that a thing

like they kind of have their spot. They're not as uh transient as an odd ad you would say, I wouldn't ask me. Yeah, I don't know too much, but it's what it seemed at least like on that subject. Well at not those all Dad would hit the valley floor and men they take off there, you know. So the way that sets up is there's these u um plateaus out there in West Texas. They're kind of like mountains,

but they're flat on top. Everybody knows the platois and there, you know, thousand acre or something like that, and you'll have these groups of animals that live on those and there's valley floor that's completely different ecologically than what that mountain is up there. And those mountains are cool to be have. Alina's elk all kinds of stuff out there, really really neat country. Um, I love it out there. Um. Also we uh this is a side note, but um

sleeping on the ground out there. One out we heard a uh jet fly below the level of the mountain while we were out there. So there's some sketchy cartel stuff kind of going on out there. For sure. What are those mountains top off that? Like? You know, I don't remember elevation wise, but I would imagine I imagine

those are in the four range something like that. But it's like I remember being th feet of change from the valley floor to the top of the mountain and you, I mean, you gain twenty or lose twenty degrees in temperature. You'd be in short sleeves at the bottom, and by the time you get out of the truck at the top, you're putting a jacket on. Just you know, in the

summer in Texas, it's cool. So we're out there doing this all day work and we're contracted to take like twenty five rams years and then we're gonna eradicate the rest um and we are flying a our forty four helicopter which is a four seater um because of the rugged terrain. So normally you'd have a t V s ut vs running around on the ground running ground crew, but out there you can't really do that. You have to, uh have another guy in the helicopter as a jumper,

which is usually of dumbest guy. And I was a jumper so uh young, you know, and could do it. I did the whole thing and still to boots Man ab Peples like to say people that rodeo, Yeah, it's it's a drilling rush. For sure, guy's gonna ride a bulls like hell, I'll talk about and grab that thing. Yeah exactly, And then you don't sleep that night because you go out and you know, chase wild women and stuff, you know, former life, you know, just being a wild young man and so um. We were on the top

of a mountain there. I'll keep these names kind of vague, but we're on top of a mountain that you could not access by vehicle. It's a plateau um and it's about like a fifteen degree grade. It's a really heavy grade up top, and every rock has is about a basketball size, and it has let your gia growing up in between the cracks between let you Gia is a Southwestern plant. You've probably seen it. It looks like alo, but it's not um um what's it doesn't have the

juice inside of it? You know, it's pretty. Is it one of the ones that when you get in your ship it feels like you got hit by a hornet? Are? Yeah, for sure, not for long. A surprisingly short lived pain, yea. And those that have to eat that stuff, that's what they're living on. That's what their tongue must feel like. I bet it's rough. Constant pain, tough creators. Man. There they are something else. So, um, whenever you knit an animal out there, the jumper has to get out and

deal with that stuff. And back then it's more than happy to do it. Yeah yeah, and just you know, do it again next day. Whatever it comes out a kind of a brown tip. Is that the one of your tom Yeah? And it's you know, eighteen inches tall, maybe a little taller. We call it what Yankees call those. We call them. Um, if you're trying to describe where something as you go, you know that, y'all a looking thing. There's a lot of there's cool plants out there, and

I got we have a Yankee camera guy. Let me explain. He now lives in Texas and he's great. But he's like, yeah, he's from north of the Red River, so he's a Yankee for he's from Illinois. Um and he um. He likes the names of stuff in Texas, so he's trying to, you know, learn this stuff. So there's Akato, there's let Guia, there's we sash Guahillo, there's what else. There's all kinds of stuff out there. And we were out hunting out there the other day and He's like, look at acaptio

over there. So I kind of just made up words, you know, just whatever stuff is, you know, just trying to be like, oh that's what that like a good cheese. Yeah. So, um, anyways, we need a you, which is a less valuable animal. Right, So like rams by the inch are worth more money. Uh, a thirty inch ram is considered a big trophy. Anything over twenty inches is worth a good bit. Anything under that it's like a banana ram or whatever. And so the use or at that time, we're three dollars or so,

so already I'm like, okay, well whatever, still like pretty good? Yeah, well a v fuel and a crew and all that stuff, you know, like you get a helicopter involved. Yeah, but I don't really care because it's not money out of my pocket. But still, you know, it's also cool just put your hands on a big ram. So you know, I'm thinking about that stuff too. Um and um, the net is less than ideal. We want to say the net, I mean like the job of the net gunning, and

my buddy does a great job on that. I'm not saying that, but it happens, right, just like bad shots and archery, it happens. Um. So she has a front leg and one horn caught in the net, which means she is still really mobile, almost more mobile than a twenty two year old casey, you know what I mean. Like, Uh, she's getting it and this is her country, right, I'm invading. I can't walk around on that stuff. Very good. So, um, I finally catch up with it. You know, I jump

out of a helicopter. Uh that's like not a big jump, but like you know, five six ft or whatever. They don't land because they can't land up there and that stuff, and uh, A chase her. She's rolling down the hill, you know, fighting, and I can already tell it's gonna be a bad one. There's good ones, bad ones, and there's in the middle, right and this she has an attitude and it's a bad situation. Okay, So oh man,

here we go. I finally chase this thing down the hill too, almost the edge of the plateau foot down cliff pretty much straight down from here, um, and we're about twenty ft from the edge for when I finally catch her in huge side relief, right, I finally because she's not that valuable, still an animal that I don't want to die for no reason and fall off the side of the mountain, and then I have to account for what I didn't get her, you know, so you don't want to be that guy. Um So a lot

of things playing in here. I get caught up to her and she's hore. So I finally get her tied up because she's not much in the net, so I have to really wrestle her to get the three legs tied up. And uh, the helicopter has a big sling rope off the bottom. Um, So you know, imagine a really thick nylon rope with the Caribbean near at the end of it. You run that through the legs of the odd ad back up to the rope, hooking in, and they sling her out to a trailer that's like

two or three miles away. You could hang up by the legs with that. Um you know hogtown there. Yeah, for sure, that's kind of like the way it's done. I word of thought. You had to cradle it somehow. Well, a lot of times, you know, there is the like super ethical way to do things, and then there's the utilitarian way that companies do stuff. If you see the state doing stuff, you would did some stuff with the

Mule Deer R Mule Deer Foundation. They they did the cradle the whole It's like a harness signals around the whole body and ideally you have the net in there too that is functioning as that, but she didn't and there's no way to get the net more around her. But yeah, she she's perfectly fine doing that. Um for sure, like a survival on this stuff is like in the

high nineties. I bet this is I'm just pulling numbers out, but I mean we hardly ever lost audad distress um so or injury, like you know, she wouldn't be limping or anything on that um and so um, I get to slip rope run through her, I give the guys the signal like we're good and um this on Reu gets one last horai at me and flings her head around.

It's like she knew I was there, you know. And her us have horns, but they're not that long, mature used like ten twelve inches probably something like that, maybe a little longer depending on the goat. Um and uh, they know how to use them because they're always there. They're not like a white tailer drops them, you know, like those horns are always there. They know exactly what they're doing with them. She flings her head around, catches the cuff of my right leg on my blue jeans,

and the helicopters going up and all. You know, this happens fast, right. I process things pretty quickly too, so this is all kind of going slow in my head. But before I know it, I'm being lifted off of the top of a mountain in West Texas, six hours plus from a hospital. Um, which I wouldn't even if this, you know, went bad. Yeah, exactly, They're gonna have to have shovels. But I'm being lifted up by my leg by an ad dad who has slung to a helicopter.

And these guys have no clue that this is happening because I'm straight below the birds. Yeah. I gave him the go ahead. We're good. And I didn't have anywhere really to go because the edge was right there and pretty unsafe anyways, you know, so like never ran through my mind, Hey, get away from the animal um, and I'm getting lifted up, and all of a sudden, I'm

off the ground. And remember I was twenty feet or so from the edge of this mountain, and I can remember having my hands straight out like this, thinking I'm hanging upside down. I'm looking down at my hands and I'm seeing the ground go further away, and I'm seeing this really close. No, man, And I had the pants for a long time still because I wanted to save them, because they about six or eight feet off the ground.

I heard that little rip and I fell down to the where I fell, I could spit over the side of the cliff foot down. Yeah, right then and there, man, its prayer time for sure, you know. Ship well I was. I was kind of at that point where it's like I need to need these plants pants to be really strong, or I need him to rip right. I don't want to rip it in like a minute. They need to

like take the whole trip or none at all, you know. So, yeah, I've had some near different experiences, but that's top five for sure. Now, if you had to wear with all the undo your bridges, I'd be impressed. I don't know, you know, under that of your belt, under that amount of pressure, not not like middle pressure, but actual physical pressure, I don't know if I could do the pants. Yeah, So, if anything, I was thinking about trying to get ahold

of the animal. But that didn't have to come to the at If I was ended up hanging out over space, I probably would have been grabbing something, you know. You know, Um, thank you. It was a lot of fun. But that a story like that probably ain't all that uncommon. Not not that that exact scenario plays itself out, but um, we actually had a film crew come out one time and film us doing this thing. They were gonna start

like some type of a you know. It was during the Deadliest Catch days, you know, so they're trying to get the next great anybody catching something, Yeah, exactly risking their catch something because we were called like they're gonna call us like modern cowboys or something chilly, you know, and and uh so like crazy stuff like that. It was always happening, you know, but that was like mine

for sure. The thing that I remember being that's when I realized I kind of almost went from young man to um, you know what, maybe need to get the stuff figured out a little bit more and not be doing this stuff too much. After that, it's great, that's a good story. Than just say that story for close calls man, Well, we can tell it again. I think if we do, I mean, that would be a great one. And I think we should cut it out of this podcast if we actually want to do. We could just

beep out the end. We can beep out the entire And then I was like, uh so, so Tyler, this is all. This is all before you guys became the elements. He wouldn't like me back then, I don't think anyway, So you were wild master, don't you were? Like you almost you were serious about football and almost at NFL. Yeah, yeah, I played. Uh, I was a power forward and at SUMME and uh, I think Steve doesn't know what that means. I don't mean sm he started power forward. Yea, it's

like a position. It's a position. Yeah yeah there on the court, on the court, on the field. Uh yeah, I played, I was. I was My dad and his dad and he had an identical twin. They all played college football, and so I guess you could say I was kind of in that line of that was in my family, you know, So that was kind of what uh like, I had some pretty good um, I had some pretty good coaching, you know, I had I had a a natural inclination to be pushed that way. I guess.

And so how did you reconcile all that fall sports playing with with hunting fishing? Yeah, that's so. I actually when I got done with football, um, I kind of debated on being a coach, and that was the hunting was the thing that I was like, I missed. I missed too much at this point, you know. But we I mean we always went like after football season, we

just that's when we deer hunted. So December you know, and so everything, you know, and then on the bye week or whatever, you know, anytime I had time that was I hunted, you know, and we fished a bunch because we lived on like fok. So you actually getting a nickname because of that, right, Uh, what's this gonna be? No, No, it's serious, Mr. December thing because you're always always I killed most of my deer in December until I was

doing That's what my dad called me. Yeah, you know, just see because I would always take it down to the wire, you know, chasing a deer. You know. It was early on deer hunting. I was very much kind

of I was. I was relegated to one property a lot of times like that was my dad had a lease in Kansas, and that was where we you know, that was where I hunted and I got to go three times a year or whatever, so I would always and that So the way they managed that is they want like five year old buck shot off of that place. It's not like strict thing, but you know, we come from Texas where you know q d M started, and that was kind of their mindset is like we want

to shoot big old deer. Is that true that q DM like took hold in Texas for its spread out. Yeah, that's uh yeah, I was down in South Texans and brush about just just so people who were talking about Quality Dear Management, which there's a thing there's like Quality Dear Management Association q DM as it's actually changed the NDIA, but yeah, but you know that was like that's an organization, but there's a set of there's a set of principles.

It was eventually exported all around the country. Yeah, And people talk about QDM meaning taking strategies popularized by q d M A and applying it basically you know, trying to select age classes and girl big bucks not just

like brown is down. So that's what that my you know, my dad and the people on that lease with him where and we basically so I was always looking for I was kind of a little man on totem pole up there, and so I'm always looking for Like I don't get to chase the big ones, you know, I get to chase the old ones that are like nine years old and have seven points or something like that. Like they'd tell you if you see this big one,

don't touch it. No. But it's a big place. And so these deer they hang out in certain areas and they my dad would for sure, but I I just didn't want to step on you know, I don't. I didn't feel right hunting his stand, you know what I mean? Just what's That's what I did sometimes? Yeah, that was

my that was what I did, you know. And and uh and then eventually, uh, towards the end a college football, I kinda I had to make a decision where I was playing in some I was playing music and so I was in a band that was kind of regionally gaining some success in Texas, and UH kind of got burnt on football a little bit. Just decided, uh not to pursue the NFL. Uh. You would send me an email and you mentioned cold Wetzel. So funny because like big like he had that whole football music. I don't

associate that stuff. Man. Well so I mean Texas football is huge and music. Yeah so, I mean those are two things that are common for like a high school boy to do, or at least in our generation. Now. I don't think people play instruments too much in high school anymore. Dude. I think if you went and took the dudes like nothing against him, I hung out with the ball, You went and took the guys from my high school to play football, right, like the good the

guys that played. You put that whole crew together. Not one of them to know how to play an instrument. I mean they might like cruise the FM dial a little bit, but they would not think of that. It's like a you know, guys are like football and music. Ted Nugent fans, Yeah yeah, man, yeah, I mean Motor City man. Man, he's but he didn't play football, Dune, No, but he's surely some Michiganders were looking at him like I want to be that. You know, tons of dudes

there was. I would say more like there was some more like hunting music cross over. I'm saying, fuck like the and maybe I just met just recently met you and me recently met CO. So I just happened to just meet two football musician people. I just don't think of that as the thing. And I'm saying, when when where I grew up, Like the football guys weren't like going home and string getting out the old six string. Yeah,

guys from my hometown. You know it's a I said, we'll ago how the uh you know, the Alamo movie kind of not but Friday out Lights. It's really how he is, man. I mean it's really close, you know. So, like part of it is like to get the girl, so you learn how to play music. But yours really

wasn't that different. Uh. I had some good friends that I had two good friends that started playing guitar, And I'm just sitting around six months later listening to them play Green Day songs and stuff, and I'm like, I wish I could do that, you know so, And until recently, I was the only guy still playing guitar at all them, you know. So, But you guys had a serious band going, Yeah, we had. I had. I was in a couple. There

was the first one came through football. Actually met a guy who was a singer, songwriter and one of the crazier people ever met. And uh, you know, he kind of forced me. I was a songwriter. He forced me to learn what some people would call lead guitar and um and kind of be a harmony singer with him and help him write and that kind of thing. So we did that for like five years, had quite a

thing going on. And it's a long story, but basically he sent an email it was not very good to somebody he didn't know was as well connected as they were, and we got like blacklisted and lost like half our schedule for the next six months. And uh up, yeah, can you go in a little more detailship, Yeah, no, there was okay, So we played a show in Manhattan, Kansas, and uh, we had we had recently had some pretty good radio success. Um told the name of the band.

The name. The name was Clay Wilson Band. You know he was. It was very like what people would call Texas country when we started out, and it became a lot more kind of I don't know, artistic or abstract or heavy rockets and some country elements. Yeah yeah, and uh, and so we went and play it. We opened for a guy I won't say his name, but just not into you know, doing that, So you wouldn't know this guy. Yeah you would know him. Uh, just kind of a regional dude that had a lot of money and had

a bus and yeah. Uh anyway, we opened for him at this place and there's like, um, it's probably like a four or five cat venue and um because of the radio single we had that like everybody showed up for us and was singing this song that was our radio single currently. It was like the first time we've ever seen this happen really, especially outside of the state, and so we were kind of taken aback by it. But like I said, he's I mean, this the lead singer.

He was at my wedding. But he's one of the craziest people I've ever met, just you know, but also like a sweet dude like you would you would he would do anything for you. He would, you know, he's a good friend, like crazy like Van Go old type stuff. Yeah, I don't I hadn't studied vand Go too much, but he would. I mean he would like put a little

of his ear off and bailed it to his girlfriend. No, not that crazy, but uh, definitely like you know, would spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars a week on alcohol, and well that kind of like party crazy, party crazy, yeah, not like um or whatever. Yeah. Um. Anyway, so we play the show, h our crowd is better than the singer, the main acts crowd and stage a little bit. Yeah and uh at the so but while he's on stage, our guys are in the you know in and in

the back party. And well there's a glass window behind the stage to the outside, this outside deck where people can hang out and stuff. You know, they're back. They're

just messing around. They're not trying to distract from a show, but they are certainly doing that because everybody looking at the stage is seeing through the back window at this party going out and just people being you know, unruly and like their butts are out potentially potentially um yeah, I I so I actually you know side note, I never even uh drank alcohol. I never tried alcohol until I was twenty two years old, just as like a discipline thing. I wanted to like prove that I could

just dude, I didn't know about the word discipline. Yeah, it's and we have we're so alike indifferent too, and a lot of specs to, which makes it would compliment pretty well. But you know I'm talking about Casey here. But um. Anyway, so they have a long story short. We get a email from his management because he complained about us causing a scene um, and she was just like, you know, hey, just ask you if they were play with him again, don't you know, don't be distracting or whatever.

At this point, like we've seen some success, the lead singer kind of gets the big head a little bit and he's like, he tells our manager, who's also seriously the nicest guy I've ever metched about. He tells him, Hey, if you don't send an email in twenty four hours, I'm sending an email um to this lady and it's not gonna be good. And he wants him to say these specific things like, look, if I want to disturb someone else's show, I'll pretty much my god, mind your

business kind of thing. And he's and my manager, Jared said no, I'm not gonna do that, man. And twenty four hours later, Clay sends this email. My best friend at s m U actually helped him craft the email. He said, Man, I toned it on as much as I could. It was pretty rough and essentially her husband, uh owned a company that works real tie with Toby Keith.

At the time, we didn't know that was a connection, and she was a regional radio rep and so just I mean literally, uh, within hours, it was like you didn't hear that radio single anyway? We lost uh like seriously half our shows, probably only that were on the books. And uh that was when I was like, and things have gotten crazy. Man like a little big for his bridges and like people on the band, we're bringing just gallon bags of you know, pot and on road trips.

I had a six month old, no money, I mean no money my wife. Uh, I didn't have a job at the time. Um, and so we're just broke. And I'm like, if I go to jail, we're toast. I can't do it. We can't we can't make it as a family, you know. And if I go and I knew these guys, if we got caught with drugs and stuff, I was they were gonna I was gonna go down with them, even though I wasn't do any of that stuff.

And so I just I said, you know what, I'm a songwriter two and I know I had met a few guys recently in Sulfur Springs where he grew up that were musicians, pretty good young guys. They were all like four years for five years earn me and started my band and then but I had a lot of network and connections through that, so we were able to jump start pretty well and you know, for the next four or five years did our thing was. It was fun.

That's an example of great decision making, very smart. Thank you. I uh, I guess you could say that being sober helped me. Uh Tyler in the tribe. We still record every summer, my my so we we. The reason we stopped touring was we played a big so we we turned into country music, like kind of subculture, I guess in those circles. But we we we kind of especially now have edged more rock and um we always didn't

like fit in completely, you know. So, but we did play a big show that was called uh Texas Thunder or something as a big festival with like uh big artists at the time like Florida, Georgia, Line, Brad Paisley, some of these big country artists. Um Texas Thunder sounds like a weed stream. Yeah, there's probably plenty of them. Out there. Yeah. Exc when I was growing up, there was like fruit Port Crippler, Texas. Yeah, tell them about the inauguration. It's a local here. The uh now we

played Wyoming inauguration. Yeah, yeah, pretty close here. Yeah, Governor Maade Matt Mead, Yeah, we played as inauguration one time the band I did. Yeah, yeah, they saw us. So we actually played the Republican National Governor's Convention in San Diego. Uh. They flew his first class. Who was the actor that I flew with? I can't even remember his name. Flew right next to that guy on the way back from that show. But anyway, Matt has been the most annoying

guy on the planet. And like, yeah, quoting his movie. Yeah, I don't watch any movies, so I I when they walked on the planets, like, I know that guy, I just don't know who he is, you know, and my buddy told me he was. But long story short, we played that and then Matt Mead's wife really liked We gotta back up for a second. Probably uh, perhaps the greatest movie he's in, Perhaps the greatest movie ever made. Monsome dove yep Pocalypse now the Pocalypse. Now, none of

these I've seen the other day. I was, it's just we have a guy. You'll meet him in a minute. Spencer new Heart, I've met him before, Okay, the other day he's him. The same director that made Apocalypse Now made what is perhaps the second greatest movie ever made, which is called The Godfather too. Spencer Deuhaus never seen any of the Godfather movies. He's like, well, I don't feel that bad if I haven't seen a movie that's made four I was born, Spencer, but that hurts me.

I told him I was to listen, man, you gotta make me a promise that in two weeks you'll have watched The Godfather. Yeah, he's he's he's in that, he's in. He's a conciliers. What's the word they use. He's like not Italian in the Godfather movies, he's not Italian, and he's like a outsider. He's like Irish or something. But he's like there, he's like legal counsel. He's a conciliers to the Italian mafia. He's like the only non Italian they trust. And two is like the all of the trilogy.

Neither of us have seen either of those movies. Either should write something trivia and just the best Robert movie is not some stuff he's been The second Hand Lines is one of the best ever. Michael Haley, Joel Osmond, Michael Caine, in a joking mood, I say that Ranchold He Looks was the greatest American movie ever made. In a joking mood. He wasn't a nat but he's like in.

He's in. Like if you get a bunch of critics together and stuff and they like make a list of the ten greatest movies they're made some bitches in a couple of them. Yeah, he's great. And people off often like you know, like Loan some doves highly regarded. We don't see poodles. You for being on the plane with the guy, I mean, I've had big plans him a huge favor by not saying anything to him. I was right behind him and I didn't say anything. He probably

loved you, he did. He actual guy don't talk to He was the first talking to him. Yeah, he had a he had a baseball cap on super Low and everybody walked on and he was the first one on the plane. Everybody walked right by, just sat there like this. Took his hat off when everybody loaded on and they closed the door when he wasn't incognito anymore, and they were talking about it. Yeah, I love the smell day Paul give him that one. No, No, but it was we were riding. That's the only time I've ever been

first class in a plane. It was cool because the Republican governors flew us out that way, so it's great. They booked your first class. Yeah, they booked his first class. And then, like I said, Matt Maid's wife saw us there, liked us. Julie, I can't remember it now. She's like, I feel like she's like six too, she's super tall. Yeah, she she had. Yeah. I was telling him, you ought to run for president. Yeah, nothing's gonna do it. No,

I wouldn't either. He kind of had that attitude like about He had that like old George Washington style attitude about public service, like do a thing, yeah, and then you know, do a thing, go in, dude, public service, leave public service, right yeah, let somebody else come in and yeah, And I'd be like, like, you like contribute to society, you get like reach a level of maturation, do with time in public service say goodbye? Yeah? Yeah,

because it doesn't happen anymore. So, Yeah, we played U Governor means inauguration, which was very weird, um because we're playing just head banging. No, but but there were people that were way too old to be doing that doing that, you know, so uh it was it was very interesting. You know. We tried to play some George Strait got him up there to sing, and he was not much for singing. Yeah, very reserved when he's on stage. Um. But yeah, that was that was kind of like that

was the end of that band pretty much. We started to kind of fizzle out and I could see guess the riding on the wall and then uh, my band after we started four five years later, like I said, we were playing that that festival out in Midland, Texas, out in the world country, that's a Friday light lights country, and um, I was I was supposed to have my second kid Journey. Um like any day you named your kid journey after the band, um or just after journeys. Well,

we wanted a jay name. My wife's big on the it's not alliteration. Yeah, so uh we already had one. Yeah, so the second one had to be that phenomenon they go with Jay's like I grew up with Genie, John and Jason. People that want to go all letter. They rarely break from Jay. Really, I don't think can you think of any examples. My wife's family is a bunch of kys. Oh they went with kids. That's very close

to the what comes after Jay? We're progressive here a bunch of q You ever watched um Seven Brides for Seven Brothers. It's old musical, pretty good. It's one of my favorites. So uh. The mom wanted Bible names and a dad wanted the alphabet, so they have Abraham through F and they couldn't find the F. So they named the baby Frankin. Since it's pretty good anyway, So we because she was supposed to she was do really soon. I had decided to drive her car out play the show,

and then we drove out. Um or, I drove out that night, and so I'm in the hospital and I find out there was only our tour manager. Who's this big dude from Uncertain Texas who was six ten. I don't know how or why he decided he should fit in a van and uncertain Texas. Uncertain Texas, yep, so right right on the border Louisiana and near Cattle Lake, the only natural lake in Texas, and um, just good, good dude loved him. Uh. And then two guys I think it was our drummer and our guitar player, and

the guitar player was driving. He was definitely the worst driver of us all. And I don't know if there was anything involved in this accident, but I do know they were in a like construction zone where the they put those concrete walls up, you know, to kind of like devvy you to a different direction, and um, they I guess somehow hit one of those total ur van. Um. Our guitar player also happened to be Uh. He's very introverted and didn't really hang out with us on trips

a whole lot. He puts ear phones in, you know, and just do his own thing. Um. And but we still loved him. A good guy, you know overall. And um, he apparently totals our van. He's also kind of does like a lot of our finances, whatever that means. I mean, you know, just we got we had a couple of loans. We had a loan pulled out to get our first album done, or really our second album, but our first

you know, Uh, produce. We produced our first album, we wanted a different producer and um, anyway, it was tied to the van. The van was collateral on the loan note for that album. So to get the uh the van title, UM, so that we could claim insurance, we had to pay off the note for the album and it left us with sixty seven dollars in our account and and so and then uh, two weeks later, our guitar player quit, just out of out of the blue.

And when he quit, there you know, he was good friends from high school with the other two dudes in the band, and they were like, man, I just don't really want to play without him. You know, things were going well um overall, but we were all just I always think that that the biggest like stifle to creativity

is uh, too big a workload on people. I think that's what That's what stimy's creativity, in my opinion, is when people get so busy that they don't have time to sit there and think, you know, yeah, and so I feel like that uh, we were at that point, We're like, we're all working these jobs at pizza in I was basically a glorified janitor at my dad's fishing lodge.

You know, I have a degree from s m U with a economics which is like I could go get a good job in Dallas, you know, but I'm making you know, hardly anything working for my dad just because he would let me go tour on the weekends, you know. And so uh, anyway, we're all just like kind of burnt a little bit, but we're doing good things. We're still just on this weird we're in this weird category. We're not making a whole lot of money still, um,

but we're playing some big shows a big artist. Anyway, when he quit, everybody else to kind of fell off, and uh, I truly like kind of went into I would say I went I was depressed for like eighteen months and um, and kind of had to work through that. But that was kind of the end of the whole thing.

Is just like, you know, we're playing this big festival guitar play gets in the Wreck and Totals of Van and that was But it was like at the time, I was depressed for eight teen months, But then I look back on it years later, a couple of years later, and like I got to spend all that time with my daughter as a newborn that I would not have I would have been gone all the time. You know, I was gone all the time. And my son at the time, you know, he's five at the time, four

years old whatever it is. So you know, we're just like I got to spend some like precious time with them that I would don't. I would not trade anything for good. Yeah, and so I it was definitely blessing. I'm very glad it happened. And now things are a lot more calm and have a you know, decent job, and I'm just really appreciative for that as opposed to, you know, doing the touring thing. It's hard. You probably talked co about it, so it's it's not always easy.

And he's doing he's super successful right now, so he probably gets to you know, at the time, we were loading all our own stuff in and out. I was driving the van a lot. And I don't sleep well, you know, like I mean, if I I'll wake up when it pen drops, you know. So it's just I didn't. I would go to sleep at four and wake up at six thirty, you know, and then go do it all over again. Bloodshot. It was. It was tough for a twenty five year old. Even it's tough, you know,

I can't imagine doing it right now for sure. So how did you guys meet? Funny story, you say it how you wanted. So I will always joke that we made on the internet. Um, but we didn't go to the same high school. Uh, but my wife is from the same hometown as Tyler's right up the road, you know, like uh like eighteen miles or something like that. I don't know. Um. And um, when my wife and I were dating, she was like, Hey, this guy fly fishes. You should go fly fish with him because I like

to fly fish a lot too. Um. And so I was like, okay, you made a film going fishing at the Valley of at All in New Mexico and I watched. I was like it was pretty cool. Yeah. So uh she was like, now, um, I don't think she regrets it, but now fly fishing for large mouths or you went to trout water no, So like it's funny, yeah a little bit. But um, we kind of grew up in that bass culture thing with like fancy boats, fancy trucks, and we didn't really weren't in it that much because

we were pretty poor. But like we saw that this firsthand for me because my dad had a fishing lodge and that was I mean, it was just like the nineties were crazy at Fork, like it was operation world Record. I mean they were trying to break the world record at Fork. It was like all this new, this whole new school thought as like pertaining to large mouth bass. Text parks and wildlife was trying to grow the biggest bass they could and Fork was a place that they

were supposed to do it. You know, they're a double digit every day in the spring. It felt like whenever, like in those days like that. I mean, it was just it was crazy that that fishing lodge was a large mouth bass fishing lodge. Um, they called it a bass and breakfast. It was kind of a play on words. Yeah, so um it was. It was pretty much still probably is the hot kind of the more high class, one

of the nicer places on the lake. Yeah. It's got seven rooms and my dad it was originally like a house slash real estate office for when the lake, you know, when they did eminent domain, all the lake, all the new property around the lake is all a sudden worth a lot more like it took a lot of money away from those land away from those landowners. But it also created this new lake front property that is worth a lot of money. And so this guy, this proprietor

kind of opens up this business slash his house. It's a big place. While he sold it to my dad, and my dad kind of renovated a little bit and put bathrooms in rooms and what's it called Lake FOURK Lodge pass and breakfast. So he's well, they used to make. My mom's a really good cook and and they used to make a huge breakfast for everybody stayed there at

ten thirty. So the guys would fish the morning and bring them all back in and they'd eat just you know, sixty eggs and all the biscuits and gravy and sinemon rolls and everything. My mom made everything, you know homemade. Yeah, my parents still do it, but they they have scaled back a lot because as you could imagine, phone calls at midnight from you know, they pretty much do groups, and they kind of do it more like an airbnb thing where it's like, hey, you kind of take care

of yourself where you're there this weekend. You know, So you rebelled and decided to become a trout fisherman kind of. I don't know. Originally I was fly fishing for bass because you know, at sixteen or whatever, seventeen like, but not really, I don't really. The Rockies is a whole different world, you know. Um, But if in college that's what I dreamed about. I didn't have any free time in college. I mean we were practicing like probably three fifteen thirty days a year, you know, so any time.

But my dream I would read books about fly fishing and tied flies in my own room and just you know,

that was what I wanted to do. And I don't know if it was like an active counterculture role mindset, but it probably was countercultural subconscious nudged that way a lot, you know, because you kind of just see this whole just like flash and bang of big bass fishing and ninety thousand dollar boats and ninety thousand dollar trucks and you know, all the things that come with it, and it's like, I don't know, it's a little bit of that and a little bit of also this whole mystique

and the Rockies. The inability to to buy ELK tags, when you can go get to thirty dollar fishing license, you know, that's kind of what drove me that way. Probably you guys caught wind of each other. Yeah. I was actually living on the coast, working for a fist and spending all my free time fly fishing in the bay. That's how I learned how to fly fish pretty much.

I was like Tyler, I had that you know, the warm trout, yeah, red trout and flounder, you know, and and honestly, I really like catching sheep head, which might be different than what you'll call it sheepid, but I know that. I know that about big teeth. You know, jump some tarp in too. I did jump some tarping on fly. Yeah that's kind of wild. Um. So that's how we kind of started lining up. Was m Tyler saved my name in his phone is what was it?

Uh something? Because I really wanted to catch her red fish you know at the time on the fly. So we still haven't done that. But um, I was up there. I was long distance with my girlfriend at that time, who's my wife now, and I was up visiting her and him and I planned a little fly fishing trip to a place that we have um uh striper fishery, um, you know, stock strapper fishery. I think they might reproduce there anyways, it's there's enough salinity that I think they

have reproducing population, So pretty good fishery. I actually caught one there a month before, a nice fish, like you know, twenty five in long fish and um, so we took a little trip up there, and Tyler was like, hey, man, you monify like film this and I was like sure, man, I don't care. You know, whatever sounds cool, and we like put together a little thing, you know, just kind

of for fun. And then like a month later he's like, hey, you want to come up and we'll drive to Arizona in fish for twenty four hours and then drive that home. And I was like absolutely, So then we took off across the country to go, uh catching Apache trout, which is kind of a rare native trout species. Is that a cutthroat pretty much like a subspecies of cutthroat, which, uh, your friend Mark Kennon would probably have some interesting things to say about how that all works. You know, Uh,

there's group there's groupers or lumpers, and then there's dividers split. Yeah. Um, whether no matter how you feel on that, they do look different. So it's fun to cross those off your list. And in the native fish live in some really cool places and uh really, um, we made a video from that. It's pretty cool. We called the Apache Trout like we

wanted to. And then on the way home from there, we kind of, like I don't know, also decided we like to deer hunt, and uh, Tyler kind of floated the idea of having a podcast, Um to me while we're driving home through hail storms. Yeah, how many years ago is this? That was sixteen early and six mid summer sixteen. So what do you guys do with your patchy trout video? You put it on YouTube. It's on YouTube. Ye, yeah, it's a pretty low views, like six minutes. It's gotta

a couple hundred views on it. Well, did you guys get into it thinking you're just good do it for fun? Or did you get it thinking that you were going to figure out a way to like do outdoor media. Um, but just do it on your own without We definitely had different outlooks on this. Tyler is a visionary. I mean you can sell by starting bands doing all that stuff, you know, Um, I am much more of a free spirit, which not to say he isn't. But I just was like,

this is fun cool. I kind of fly out the seat of the pants, kind of impulsive a little bit, which my wife will tell you. I'm not so I don't understand you know of stuff, but thank you by the leg of your pants. Yeah, man, Tylered experimented with the outdoor stuff a little bit before that. Yeah, I did, uh kind of having video and ducks and whatever forever. But yeah, I mean, I've always have always wanted to do what I'm doing right now for a living, Like

It's always been the goal. Even like even when I when I was chasing the music dream, I always thought if there was something one thing I could do besides music that I would rather do, it would be this. Do you'd rather do more than being a rock and roll star? Yeah, I think so. I love and I love creating music right there. Oh, this is I mean, it's what it's literally, it's who I am. Like I this is what I've done since I was I mean, I was running around one time. It was a quick

little story interjection here, Sorry, my dad. I left a red rider out in the rain and and uh leaned up against chain Lake fence and it rusted and my dad got he's a gun he's very strict with gun safety. So he got, you know, a little bit perturbed by that, and so he banned me from my gun for a long time. I don't know, it was like probably a year, but he, uh, he made me a bow out of a willow tree and it's literally like cut the branch in two spots, tie some trot line string mcnotchet, tie

some trot line string to it. And he gave me an aluminum arrow. And that was what I hunted birds with for a year. I never killed. You always do with the red riders. It would rust them out, is uh. We'd speed load them where you put all your babies in your mouth, like hundreds of babies in your mouth, then you line up your mouth to that port, blow them all in there, and you just could rust your ships. Man, I had a daisy. Everybody's got the like leave the

or maybe not everybody. A lot of people of that leave the baby gun out and get in trouble. Story. I feel like it's a thing. It's like almost a rite of patches us. It was if you left the old man's tools out. Yeah, I was getting in trouble for a roof and hammer a lot because it's kind of like a hatchet. I'd always take that bath. Uh. But I was doing that with a Daisy twenty two caliber um, you know, like bolt action, and those are lead. So as a kid, I was packing lead lead pellets

in my lip like it was snuff. And it's a great way to carry him, you know. And so yeah, if I like twitch a little bit, that's probably why I remember, Uh, my old man, we left someone left the tools out in the yard and they got rained on. And remember my old man taking me my two brothers and putting us in the bathroom with the light out, and he said, when someone's ready to tell me who left those tools on in the rain, and three of you can come out of that bathroom. And no one

had any idea. I can't hereby we're just I feel like someone had the way we remember it, someone had even to come out and be like, I didn't you know, no one had any idea. You couldn't come out of the bath roountil. Someone's gonna clarify for the two left the tools on the rain. There's such a big thing to So you were the youngest, did you get remember like that? Feeling that you'd be laying in bed and then start raining, and just the feeling a dread that

you know something's out in the rain. It's not the rain outside, just to feeling like you're gonna wake up and be like, oh no, we left that out in the rain and in all the trump but you're gonna be rain anxiety for sure. It's constant. Yeah, So that's kind of how we kind of got together, was the fly fishing thing, and then decided we deer hunt. Yeah, so how many how many how many videos have you guys made it as the Elements four hunt? I think it's OK. Yeah, I mean there's probably a few that

we made that aren't on the channel too. There's definitely some we've got something. We've got something pervace that we're going to media channel at some point, so some new ones. How did you guys come up with the name of the Element? I wanted something, so I wanted something that basically I was trying to compete with meat Eater, right,

so I needed something that was broad. I didn't because we I mean, I love deer hunting and I think I've learned a lot about it the last few years especially, but I mean what we did growing up, Like whatever season it was, that's what you did, you know, if it's smart, Yeah exactly. So, I mean we did everything, and I love doing everything. I love fishing and hunting everything. So that's what we did growing up, and that's what

I wanted to do eventually with the Element. But I also knew like if we niche down a little bit, we can gain some traction because why it tells a pretty big category. And so, um, I I left the name. It's kind of like a broad thing and uh and then we need to become a rock band that name.

Yeah yeah yeah, um so yeah, that's that's kind of the reason I wanted the name to be, to be able to represent like whatever you're doing is what you're doing, you know, but you guys have had You've guys had the most action and become known for just like on the fly wait til hunting Yeah yeah, which, like I said, it's like they tail version of running and gunning for turkeys. Yeah, I mean that's what. Yeah, I mean, that's and he's like, like he mentioned, he's always down for a good time

and he's always just like he's super optimistic. His uh just positive spin on everything, I mean, and that's like, that's a big part of this deal because uh, we had no money when we started this thing at all.

It was just like I had some cameras. I actually did wedding wedding film, wedding videography so that I could pay for cameras to do this, and basically we uh he his his kind of optimism is what got us through because we're hunting public land pressured stuff, especially in Texas where we started, lots of people, little deer, not very many bucks, low kind of low deer density areas, and that sounds great. Yeah, it's so much funny. It's

so much funny. You know, you're just sitting in a tree waiting on something to walk by, you know, and nothing does most of the time. So it was a struggle and uh like for me, h, knowing that we needed to make videos, I mean to to have any sort of traction happened that it was hard. I got

down on myself a lot about it. And so having him around is like crucial to our his like mentality to our what we that's then it's crucial to um, I try to be as optimistic as I can, and it really isn't even it's it's very inert within me. Yeah you want to try. So it's not that like I'm optimist, but I'm just always looking for the next good thing to do, and not like a not like a fix or a high. But like, if we're in a situation this is this is like the microcasm of

how we are twenty nineteen eighteen. Um. We are calling in a buck on public land, rattling them in from three fifty yards out. I'm the shooter, Tyler's the videographer. Uh rallis deer in liket yards and I take the shot and my arrow deflects off of something grass or something like that, and immediately I'm grabbing another era I'm like trying to kill it, dear still, and Tyler like, and then on the way home, I'm like, oh man,

that's s dunk. And then Tyler, you know, Tyler's kind of over it already, but like in the moment, I'm like, let's go, you know, like we just gotta get this thing done, whatever it takes to do it, which just sounds so cliche, you know, but the reason cliches exist is because a lot of times they're true. And a lot of times the thing you need to do. So yeah,

that's kind of how I operate. Just um uh Tyler, Um, you're not critical of me of this, but you've pointed out I'll put it that way, Tyler, this is great. We have a great relationship because what we do in the woods is we stand next to one another and we shoot as many holes in the boat as we can, uh proverbably not like the boat we're hunt out of, but um, until we just find run the sieve through the idea, until we find the idea of what to do hunting. And that's what we do. And so where

was I going with that? Whenever I was talking about that, I kind of got lost. You were talking about the microchasm of our Yeah, yeah, just that that's kind of how we are. So like, I'll have an idea and Tyler was like, no, we can't do that because this isn't this And like, if you learn to put your pride aside and understand that you're both trying to have

the best outcome, then you can get that. But if you're the guys like, well, why don't we want to do my idea become possessive of like like you want to own the end results, so you feel like you need to own the process. Yeah. If you can get by that, man, you can you can do some stuff. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's it. I think even in business, like that's the way to be. Like, you have to be able

to speak to another person straightforward. There's no reason to mess around, you know, like, let me tell you how I think about it, and don't get offended. And I won't. I'm not saying anything about you. I'm just saying this is my idea, So what do you think about that? And we just could constantly. That's like, that's a business thing, but it's also it's how we kill deer. What I was saying was what your critical ever bring up about me?

That's what I was saying. The um, I'm kind of a little bit too optimistic sometimes, so It'll be the last day of a hunt eleven am and I'm still like trying to rattle in dear on the way out of the woods or something like that. That's that's me. I'm that guy, like got you're slow to switch it into the holy ship mode. I don't. I don't take my release off pretty much till I get back to the truck, you know, yeah, and where Tyler's like, Okay, let's get home and see the family, you know, which

is a good thing. Uh So just you know, a different way we operate. You guys, ever get in to a fist fight. Never fist fight, no, no, never even yelled at each other. But we've had our disagreements, for sure. We Uh, this thing Tyler remarks about a lot. And I think it's kind of interesting is we're both Christians. Uh, we kind of try to live by a certain set of standards and uh, you'll never this. Now, this stuff only happens between us, right, We we usually keep these

disagreements pretty private. Um, but you'll never see two grown men like be very vehemient with one another and not say a single cuss word the whole time. It's yeah, yeah, So it's like we have a lot of pauses like like what do I say? And it kind of goes back to like the leap for all Triestians, like how

do I not escalate the situation? You know? That's right, that's right, And honestly, we we um, we still have disagreements from time to time, but we haven't really ever had like a knockdown drag out, I'm not doing this anymore too much kind of deal. Were you guys? Were you guys raised the religious households? Yeah? Yeah, there was a moment, uh though, just to go back to what you said, where I was like I was pretty much

done with the element. There was a moment, yeah, Like I got to the point where no, I just we So at postseason there's always this kind of like postseason drag where you're like, man, it's cold, there's nothing to do. We didn't have as good a season we wanted as we wanted maybe uh, like early on especially, and and we're in that same mode where I was talking about with my band earlier. We're like, uh, we have to go work jobs and then also do this part time.

You know, however we can make ends meet. And so you know, he did a lot of um, he did a lot of carpentry work because that's kind of where he grew up, was in that that space and so uh and so the reason that I ended up doing a lot of the the editing and stuff like that for videos UM was I had like we had sold a house in um the house that my wife and I bought when we first got married, and uh, we took like everything I made off of that she worked as a teacher, which is not a very good income,

but it's okay, you know, and then took all the money that we made, which wasn't a bunch, and that's what we lived on for the next few years while I just edited every day. He didn't have a job, and so like full transparency, you know, it feels like he's going out and making money. I'm editing and not making any money and keeping this thing afloat, and and it's just a hard time right in like a business owner of proprietor's life. And it was like just a struggle.

And so it came down like after the season where I told my wife, I was like, I'm not I would rather than lose a friend and be like angry at him or him be angry at me and me all have to make a passive aggressive statement or whatever. I'd rather just say done with this, you know, and finding find a decent job or whatever, you know, we wanted to do at the time. And so I had gotten to that point and that was like probably the last one of the last times that he and I

had like a an argument. Yeah, And so when during these years when you were being so like I I appreciate all the elbow greef so like. I think it like a principled existence where you're you were going to be. You pursued music, you pursued you know, being an outdoor media like stuff. That's hard. Did your wife ever was shiver like listen, man, I heard the phone companies hiring.

There was definitely sometimes oh yeah, like towards probably she was really like, I mean at this point, like I've been out of college for ten or twelve years or whatever it is. I can't even think about it right now, but it's been a while, and and the whole time we've lived very poor. Like I've sat with my hand my head in my hands in the driveway thinking how am I gonna pay for you know, five mortgage? And

I said, cheap mortgage, you know what I mean. We had a little house, so I mean not a little house, but at a cheap house that we bought in the recession. And uh, it came it came down to where she was like, listen, we got to put an ultimatum on this thing, Like there's got to be a time where you say, okay, you don't have to quit, but like maybe time to get a more stable job, you know. And I don't know if we ever came to a date or terms with that. The season I think is whenever.

Like that was kind of the make or break year, and you and I both had kind of make or break experiences in the woods that kind of because I was like, um, kind of excited about you taking that job that we would take some of the heat off of that situation. I was a newly with I forgot I didn't even mention the job that I had when the works and so like I had to work. My wife met me before the element, so pretty much Tyler video on my wedding, okay, So like that was like

kind of how it all started at the same time. Yeah, a smoking deal. Um. So and like my wife is like, hold on, this is not what I was like, you know, nuptualate, innuptuating or whatever, you know. So uh um uh we junglingly say you gotta thought with your wife. Sometimes, Um, I'll just say I say that I'm not gonna I've been there. We're married too. Wonderful women by the way,

Uh they're great. Um. But like in the year twenty it was somewhat of a make or break year because it was like, man, we've got a things are moving slow as far as like element stuff goes. I got I'm trying to put my wife through grad school. You're working, you know, doing editing pretty much full time. Caylee is you know, uh, the one income on your end, and like we're like, man, what do we do? And then we kill some deer that year and like it was like, man,

we can actually do this. So it's self filming too. This is we had got an intern that year and he washed out before November got here, and so it's like, gosh, you know, what are we gonna do? So we end up to self filming ourselves a like that year, put some things together and then man, it was a good year.

It's a good year. It's kind of it was kind of like I had a job, so I was actually with my church was trying to hire me to like lead the music portion of the services, you know, yeah and do and do a church podcast and that kind of you know. So uh my wife is like, yes, he'll do it, you know, and I'm like, I'm like pretty much. I was like, man, I don't know, like

things are going okay, you know. And then I killed five bucks a year and it was three of them were like wall hangers, I mean, big year, you know. And uh, I remember that my church kind of gave me this, like, uh hey, by the end of November, can you let us know something, you know, where you gonna do this? I had. I had already been basically starting in COVID like that's when I started leading the music stuff there and I was just doing it as like an interim, you know, and uh they wanted me

to continue, and I told him. I was like, oh yeah, I guess I was hoping we could get through the season and see how the Element is doing it, you know, in January or something, and uh so, but they wanted to do it by December. So I literally killed my fourth buck on November and it it's the video. We just reached a million views on that video. But it's our you know, biggest deer video, I guess you could say.

And when I killed that buck, I was pretty much like I found that as a sign as I should probably decline that job and kind of do the Element thing, you know. Yeah. Yeah, So and then killed another deer at the end of December that is like our second

biggest video. So we had a pretty good talk on Cyculotyer on November twenty three that year, and uh, we were both driving back in separate vehicles and we had a pretty good talk that was kind of like, you know what, let's just go and just do this thing, you know, and which again cliche, but you know, that was like, we can we can make this happen with hard work. If we continue this on you know, um,

we'll have some doors open up. And if not, you know, we can still scrape it together and make it work. And well, yeah, we're scrappy. Yeah, that's a that's a that goes you know, I gotta gotta be scrappy to kill deer, that's right. Yeah, you guys got Michigan elbow grease all we're done in Texas. Yeah up, well guys, we're running out of tanks. We gotta do the trivia show Man. We'll tell people what you got coming because now you now you're you got some stuff that's gonna

come out on Meat Eator's channels. You got some stuff that's coming on in your own channels. Yeah, I appreciate that. So um we uh, at the end of the year one, I shot a deal on public ground in Oklahoma, and uh, well to back it up, there was a nickname being thrown around that year of the buck truck, the truck I was in. You could chuck joking around. It seemed to be that there were bucks around when that truck

would show up, you know, his truck. He got COVID in South Dakota in a tent, you know, and so with a bunch of other guys. Well, we also have another guy on the team that uh, he's not a morning person, so he doesn't get up and hunt in the morning. Sometimes. Well, they were buddies, you know, riding around the truck in the mornings because he you know, he was hacking all night. Just felt terrible. So they get up, you know about sun sunrise, and go sea

bucks out of the truck. So they started bragging on themselves about how they were the buck truck truck and all the kid we're in the woods plays music, yeah, actually ground calls come out of Yeah. But then uh, Tyler and I teamed up at the end of that season in one and killed that deer on public ground in texts, I mean in Oklahoma, and uh, the buck truck like really was cemented. Then was like, hey, this is a thing. So we decided to maybe put a little effort into it and have a little bit more

direction with that. So we're gonna have a series that comes out this May, I believe, called The Buck Truck, where it's just you know, two best friends traveling in the country hunting deer and you're just watching the buck Truck and you guys like, could hear each other shooting? Yeah, that's pretty sick. Yeah, it's funny when he realized some of that heard his buddy shooting arrow. That's some small parcelo. Man. It was. We were in tight quarters of both shot

and nice bucks. It was kind of kind of man, crazy things happen whenever you go out there and actually put some effort into it. And so I always like to say, man, it's great coverage. Yeah. Yeah, our guys did a killer job. That was the first. That was the first one of those episodes that we did too, so the camera work gets better throughout. We did. We had really good deer footage. We did seven episodes. It's not like, oh, if you look real carefully, you kind

of see you deer. It's like good, Yeah, they kill it they eyelashes never, that's right. So uh yeah. I always like to say you've got to give amazing a chance to happen. And that's kind of what we did that not you know, two guys set up eight yards from each other, kind of on a I don't know, tough hunt. It's kind of hot, you know, late September smoke, couple deer, you know, eight pizza back country bag them out.

When you have a bunch of camera guys, you tell the one of them to bring a pizza a mile back into the woods, you know, eight them and didn't work on your deer. Nothing like a three thirty uh a, m you know, bead roll. That was good. You know those those nights are sure you appreciate them. It's memories. Yeah, yeah, you got some with Claylor recently. Yeah, that's on that series. Yeah, so that'll that'll release in May as well. Thinking, Yeah,

it's we're in Arkansas. They're a bunch of boating around. It's cool, not swearing exactly. A bunch of America's last three non swear to throw Spanish at Clay because he tries to play along with it, you know a little bit. Yeah, I'm from South yeah, so's I love Yeah, good dude. Al Right, guys, so everybody check them out at just type in the Element, yeah yeah, type in media or

the Element. Type in the Element. You'll find him. You guys, you give all your social media handles too, So see Element Wild a lot of times where you'll see to the Element podcast depending, um that's gonna be where you find us at on you know, a hard Apple all that to podcast exactly and then the YouTube channels called the Element and the Element podcast gets pretty heavy into white tails y. Yeah, yeah, it's uh, it's still kind of has that Element vibe of like, you know, the

seasonal thing or whatever. We actually just did a pretty pretty cool podcast about access hunting in Texas because it's uh kind of did it a little bit of deep dive into you know the history of that and that sort of thing. So you know it'll be a little bit seasonal, but always some white tail stuff for sure. And uh, the meat eater dot Com you find all Jordan's Stiller's writing, the gun battles, beaver battles, beaver battles, color battles, and if you're looking at something that looks

like someone designed, it's probably hunter spencer. Yeah. Yeah, and the shirt will be out, the milk and shirt. Yeah. Can we auto with Born for a time and can you just like maybe give give us a little spiel? Thank you for that. I would love to do that. Um I, so this is The Food Fighters are my favorite band. Um, sorry I mnna interrupt you. I listened to your track a couple of days ago and Cran sent it to me and I was like, this sounds like the Food Fighters. Well, thank you, Yeah, that's what

I was aiming. Oh, thank you. I Uh, I just feel old and washed really, but uh, basically, when their drummer, Taylor Hawkins died recently, um, I kind of I don't know, it's a very weird. It's very weird way that I wrote this song. I feel like it's not like a very typical and sometimes I think what gets me into trouble is that like creativity. I want this creativity and

it's not super digestible by most people. And so but I don't care anymore because I'm not trying to make money off of music, you know, and so um I wrote this song basically it's almost like uh, my perceived relationship of Dave and Taylor, who are like best friends in the band together, and but I'm like speaking towards Dave as like, hey, this is a terrible thing that happened, but you also have like a big platform and an opportunity to say something to the world here, you know,

like and basically taking esther four fourteen saying like you were born for a time to do something very powerful, and maybe this is that time. So that's why I wrote a song. Is the hook line is maybe you're born for a time such as this. Oh it's great, man. I listened to the tune. I liked it. Thanks, man. I was surprised where I don't look like very good at things do I no, no, no, I don't mean surprised by it being good. I just I was surprised

by um because it didn't sound like country. Yeah. I was expecting more, you know, I thought it would be more what what most people would identify to be more like leaning in the country genre. We definitely have UM the sense we have stopped like touring and pursuing a career in music. We've basically just don't what we wanted to do and stopped worrying about like what people would like. So it's way more fun. Just make make tunes you like and don't worry about what bucket it's in. Yeah, alright,

we're gonna kick off. We're gonna end off with it. Thanks man. So find these boys at the Element, Element Wild on social Yeah, that's it. I'll track it down and the Element podcast anywhere podcasts are found, stay tuned. Thanks guys. Trivia, oh one nice question. Do you think you'll win or not? I'm fired up. He's got a good shot. You're gonna win. I like trivia. You want to do a side bet? Yeah, I don't know. I'll pay for it. Can we do something non monetary? You

don't want to do a five dollar side? But I mean that's that's almost not worth it. We'll talk about Yeah, we're visiting with like. I like the I like it to be a little bit more meaty when it comes to you want something like that. I really like and don't want to give up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll talk about it. Thanks guys. You were born for this a time in a place it seems like mess. I want to des appair hurt so bad. Don't want these but streams long build over night, hed up your eyes is

energy gave you lie he roll in this sky. You question why a second time? Wookay soside if you as your best friend again, maybe you were more born times such as theirs. You all that you live, your whisper, you can feel in. Maybe we're born born time suggest thes do you all, lady? Love them because you're best friend you can get. Maybe are more time, maybe more times such as they