Ep. 403: Rattling Bucks with Joe Rogan

This year, we are partnering with the Trust for Public Lands to support the Montana Great Outdoors Project. Remember last time we did something all the way across the country over in Maine. This time we're doing it in Montana, the Montana Great Outdoors Project. This project consists of a sea areas of permanent easements across one fourteen thousand acres of Timber Company land. These easements will prevent development and

ensure continued access to hunting and fishing and perpetuity. Getting these easements in place not only provides direct access to one fourteen thousand acres of private property, but increased access to the existing public lands that surround the area. So there you have it. That's what the two thousand and twenty two Meat Eater Land Access Initiative funds are going to try to start off. How how was it getting your first um, your first wild hawk. Oh, it's fantastic.

H it was fast. It was fast. It was unexpected because we headed out with the intent of Joe hunting Nil guy and you guys getting some white tail. And the first thing that we saw were a couple of pigs. And you're a lot, grab the riffle, let's go. So how far were we was from the road to the pigs couple hundred yards and you took off and I just followed you, and we're trying to get close enough to them and out of wind down wind, and then you said, we probably got to about a hundred yards.

You set up those stick that stick tripod for me, and uh, you're making sure that I I saw the largest one in my sites, which was a black one. I think there was like a pink, two pinks. I think there were three, all white tand I didn't see a red tan. That's kind of a I mean a neutral color. I don't know. I thought lighter. It wasn't

a pink one that we're scoping out. So's this larger black one, and it looked from that distance huge, because everything seems to look really really large when you're far away from it. But I think you maybe thought I was gonna take a little bit more time to set up because you were still talking to me, and I'm like, no, no no, no, like I'm going to shoot, and you're still talking to me. I'm like, I'm going to shoot. And then it was quartered away from me, and uh.

I was a little shaky on the on the tripod, but I just I shot, and you know when you hear that, like, so I knew I hit it. Father described as hitting the pumpkin with a bat m. That was his noise for whenever he's telling how good, yeah, how good? He hits on with Uh. But I made a mistake and then I didn't continue to look through the scope. I raised my head and I didn't automatically

rack another one. So for the future, I mean, that's just always something that I should remember when you shoot once, you know, just you know, because it might not be dead. And in this case, that pig wasn't dead and he ran off. I panicked a little bit. I couldn't get off another shot because I had did I had done made some little mistakes right after, and uh, we took off trying to find him, and you were preparing me for the fact that we really might not find him

because he ran off. Kind of I knew that he was hit, but I didn't know how injured he really was. Um, and then we kind of got to the end. Uh we got to the start of the tree line, and like ten yards in there he was and that is it. But he wasn't. Yeah, well you were all tore up about it. But let me point this out to you. Had you had you shot and I had said, Okay, we're just gonna wait ten minutes and then we'll go check. Right,

you're gonna learn him and laying there dead. It's just that you got over there quick enough to see what was. You witnessed what you have to do, which is always going to happen anyways of you just having to witness it happened, and he felt bad about it, but you would never You wouldn't have known if you hadn't have been there, Like it was mortally wounded and it died and it was maybe like ing it through the brain,

you know, that's the that's the process. Yeah, it was just hard to see my little zodiac Chinese zodiac spirit animal. But you're gonna do a bunch of Chinese stuff with it. I would love to do some because you're not gonna do Jewish off with it. That's that's right. Here's how the rab. No. I would love to try to do a little bit of char shoe, which is like the roast roast pork. Unfortunately, oftentimes when you see it in restaurants, uh, it's got that horrible red food coloring die around, which

I will not not do. Um, but just just salt peter, Is that what they're putting in there? No, it's red food. Yeah, it's just like, yeah, I haven't thought about that too much. Yeah, Um, I actually I'll probably maybe I'll ask you, Jesse, or ask one of my Chinese chef friends the best way to do that, because I've ever I've never made something like that when you were gonna at home, Let's say you make ten meals. How many of them are sort of like somewhat informed by Chinese cooking? Um, probably a

fair amount. Um. I wouldn't call me myself like great in the kitchen, but I grew up on just real simple stir fries that my mom, mads would always be steam rice. Um. There would always be some kind of vegetable, typically a Chinese vegetable stir fry, you know, onions, garlic, and either like a back choy or like nap a cabbage, um, any kind of Chinese leafy green or um like sauteid

string beans. And then a protein, often pork or beef, sometimes chicken, but um my mom, and it's just like really that standard marinade of like soy Chinese cooking wine, a little bit of corn starch, uh, maybe a little bit of oyster sauce. Um, what am I forgetting? Sometimes maybe like a five spice powder in that some sesame oil and you just leave that for a short amount of time to a longer amount of time to overnight you know, um, and then just kind of like high

heat and a walk. And that's what I ate almost all the time. Yeah. So the Chinese don't call Chinese five spice powder Chinese right, right, probably just called it five spice patter. Um. But yeah, so a fair amount of stuff that I cook at home is just like a is a stir fry. So the wild game that I have in the f in the freezers is not really ground. Like last year with my dear and this year with my dear, I didn't grind a bit of it, um, because I'll just do all the different cuts kind of

in a stir fry, in a braise. I've got nothing against sausage and burger I love it, but I just I just don't really grind. And I it's not that Asian cooking doesn't incorporate like ground meat, but I just haven't haven't gone in that direction. Yeah. Also joined by Jesse Griffiths and uh, Mr Joe Rogan, Hi, what um, what are your impressions of of what are your impressions

of of hanging out down here? Joe? This is my first time doing like a real Texas hunting ranch experience, because everybody tells you it's like I've been here, I've living here for two years and everyone's like, have you a hunted in Texas yet? Of here? So now I can finally say I have, and uh, it's very interesting. It's like seeing all these exotic animals and this enormous ranch. It's it's really cool. It's really cool. And uh, the coolest by far was the rattling in of the white tails.

That's the coolest thing ever. That is the coolest thing ever. The way it works so well, it's it's bonkers, like I've I've never seen a thing works so well. Everything. Yeah, don't you wish like all well, I guess of all game calling work like that all the time, there wouldn't be any game right, especially we had a rifle. I mean, if you imagine if like ELK calling was that effective. It's like, watch, we're just gonna sit here. I saw an elk. We're just gonna sit here and make a

noise and we're gonna come running. They come running for the folks who have never done this before. Steve was rattling and within fifteen seconds sometimes deer are coming in full clip. And the one deer, the biggest deer that we saw was at the end of the day on Tuesday. This guy comes running in in a full sprint and he was a big sucker. He saw you and he's like not today, and he came running out. So I had him at sixteen yards and I had no shot.

I couldn't get him a slow down. I was going map, map, map, It's like no, just like YouTube, just like every white till they get a shot on YouTube got well, every white teller get shot on YouTube that you know, it's usually understand and they're walking and and then that he's already like half paranoid ship, you know, and you just

trying to slow him down. Uh for um. The first time I came down in this place was Jesse introduced Jesse's friends with the guy that owns the place, or shud, it's not fair to say, you know, Jesse's friends with a guy who's part of the family that owns the place. And we came down to we're doing some other Texas ship and came and wanted hunt Nil Guy. And there's an outfitter that works here. So he went out with

one of the outfitters. Um until guy had a great time, and there was a lot of Nil Guy back then. But we were dicking around and then like like Janice had picked up a set of sheds or something or another and had on a couple of occasions just rattled off next to the truck and got some interest. And

one time we were laughing because he was rattling. He rattled in the buck that already knew we were there, like the box, like, oh, there's some dudes in the truck and yeah, he rattled and he just starts coming a little ways, and then I got the idea, man, we gotta come back and try to rattle deer and eventually, uh, we're allowed to come back kind of you know, do our own thing a little bit. And came back and

did it. But it wasn't like it is like I feel like it was the the I feel like there's no way it could be better, Like there's if there's a day in the year or two days in the year, they're gonna be like, how could it get better than it was? Right, we made a pack to come back last night, like this time, this time next year, this is the time. It's like, you know, you got that September what it's probably September sixt for like the elk Rut.

There's like this time where everything just goes hey wire and if you are lucky and you're in the woods during that time, it gets nuts. And if I felt like December four, like whatever that day was like it was just lined up perfectly. We were we were setting up and having uh to three of them come Yeah once we did, had no idea where in the area. We're just storming in full balls running when I got that one buck, the first buck, and then that was the third buck that came in inside of five minutes.

Like we we we decided to try again because the two bucks came in and one was real close and another big one came just running right past us, and uh, we were like, wow, I guess we blew these guys out of here. And we're like, well, let's just give it another couple of minutes, and then before you know what, another guy shows up. We kept it kept not working because it was working too good. Like you, you kind of think that his ass could come and like stop

thirty forty yards out, but they don't stop till they're in. You. You almost have to be at full draw when you're done rattling. You almost have to like rattle for like thirty seconds and then go ahead and then just hold full draw, you know, like with like a modern boat you can kind of hold full draw for a couple of minutes. I think, if you're really gonna get serious about it would be like a eight seventy with buckshot. Yes, yes, yeah.

Because there were so many times that they were coming in behind us, to the side of us, and we kept trying to game. It would be like, okay, well that one clearly wanted to be down wind, so you go down wind, and then he'd go down wind and I'd rattle and then people like in my face. And

then the next one is whatever. Well, the one that we rattled in that was over near the lake, that was pretty wild because he was on the whole other side of that pond and he heard us and you just see running from hundreds of yards away and he did a full circle to get down wind of us, and it was pretty quick. And then he's like, I

don't like it. And it's like the place gets hunted for sure, because there's an outfitter that has excluded like an exclusive for outfited stuff, and then the family has friends and people that hunted, but at no one hunts it like that because it's kind of like a Safari style hunting, no blinds, no feeders. Well, when we went out, Joe, so Joe was talking to one of the guides and weird. The question was basically, how many times have guys bow hunted? And he says never and she was like no, I

mean like ever never, they never had. He had never had. The guy that guides had never had an archery client, so I think that like a wait, it's so it's it's not that it doesn't get hunted, because it gets hunted, but it doesn't get hunted like that. So I don't think they're hearing like here. I don't think they're hearing that. Yeah.

And also I think probably when the deer don't hear gunshots, maybe they stay a little more calm because like, no one's getting killed, because they probably associate boom with danger and death. But there's never a boom while we're here, so maybe they're like a little bit more relaxed. Yeah. Uh, the there's a guy, there's a cowboy out here that runs cattle. I don't know if you call him a cowboy. I guess you can call m a cowboy, the guy that runs cattle. He said, Uh. He had a good

way of expressing it. He said, um, they're coming to horns. I thought it was a good way of putting it, with ratling. They're coming to horns. It works. It's the most fun way to hunt ever. I think it is because it's so exciting, Like where are they coming from? They're running in? Yeah, I've never you know, I have never ever ever I've seen anything like that. I wonder if it's particular to this area. I think that that's

that's a yeah, I think it is. I got a friend of South care I shouldn't even say this what stady listen because he does it, and he does it on public ground. South Carolina is a big place. I got a friend of South Carolina there. That's how they hunt man um. That's how they hunt deer. They climb up in a tree standing, they rattle, and they really consistently killed box on public land, rattling hard to hunt because in his view, up until this very moment, in

his view, people aren't doing it. M in this area. He goes, Okay, He's like in he's in public swamp land. He's like, people aren't doing it. They probably just don't know. So deer are edgy, they're jumping, but they're not hearing that. And when they hear that, it means one thing to him. But I've no because you know, I've rattled in a couple of deer, Like in Montana, I rattled in a couple of deer after a lot of attempts. I know they're hearing it, and it could be that for whatever reason.

It could be that they don't want to get killed and they're thinking that that they're always on their mind. Is like that which I wonder about that like associate that sound with danger or they don't give a ship. And that used to be the thing I used to think with elk calling, like anytime you couldn't call in an elk, I was like, he thinks it's people, you know, And Phelps He's like, I don't think he thinks. I think he's not interested. He's not interested. It's not that

he's like there's a lot of time. Sure there might be times when he thinks it's people, but as a lot of times he's not gonna come anyway. And this book there's this book, The Tent Legion by Colonel Tom Kelly about turkeys, and he talks about that same thing. He always thought when you when Tom won't come, it's because he's afraid of getting killed and thinks it's a person. But then one day he described, I was watching it, Tom,

He's watching a bunch of hens. He's watching the Tom cruising along, and the Hens are doing all the ship that he would do to try to call in the Tom. They're doing the calling they're doing everything. And he said the tom never gave a ship, never lifted its head up, and it's like it's real hands a real time, and some things just don't give a ship. So whatever it is with the age demographics, I don't know pressure, what's

that pressure on deer here is minimal? Oh, because people are hunting the exotics, you know, That's what I'm saying. But like you remove, like whatever it does, they're not thinking they're gonna get killed. But I'm saying, even in the absence of the thought that you're gonna get killed, there's probably times when they don't hear two bucks fighting and think they need to come running over because of

whatever ship. He's like, like, I don't really know what goes into I don't know why they're so like why these particular deer in this particular spot are fired up about two bucks fighting. It's really interesting to see the difference in the behavior of the animals when you look

at the animals that are hunted the most. There's all these animals that are living together, but the animals that are hunted the most are clearly the ones that behave differently when they see people like the Neil guy for sure, the most spooky, they're the most spooky. The least spooky is probably the Havelina. They're the least spookie. They're they're like basically not interested in you for the most part. You're not going to pick them up. Yeah, you're not

gonna pick them up. But they're the least scared of you. And Neil guy, I just don't wanna have nothing to do with you. They see you, they're like, this is it, We're out of here. And then the water buck are like they're probably not hunted as much and they're a lot more relaxed. When I told when I told our friend here that we wanted to come down that Joe wanted to uh get uh try to get a Neil guy with a bow. Um, he right away was like

nervous about it's hard to do. And Yanni came down and just spent time on his own doing it and did it. But he had a bunch of days that he put into it and killed one of the bow and uh, we had a shorter period of time and Brad had said listen, uh if need be, I'll have one of the guides that that that does bring clients out to God. I'll have him come out and show you guys what's up. And after we even spent one day, know when we just had a couple of days to hunt,

we spent one day. Uh, I was kind of like, I don't know, man, like other than just sort of want other than just sort of wandering around waiting for some kind of like weird opportunity present itself. I was a little bit I was kind of at a loss. I could be like, yeah, I can see, man, if you at a week and you're just out for a week,

something's gonna happen. But I couldn't think of how to deliberately, how to sort of deliberately make it happen, being like with the deer, like I'll deliberately make it happen by rattling. But the nail guy is like, I don't know, I don't know enough about him to know how you deliberately be like we're gonna go out and try to get a shot, other than we're just gonna kind of stumble

around and see if a crazy opportunity presents itself. So we had the guy come, um, what did you what would your take on his his attitude about it, his approach about it. Well, first of all, he said he was wearing a black shirt, and he was wearing a black shirt on purpose. He was like, the reason why I dressed like this is because when they see me with the black cowboy hat and a black shirt, like, they might think that I'm a Neil guy. And if I wolf at him like, they might come towards me.

And it was so interesting because you at one point said to me, what noises do they make? And I said, I don't know about any. I'm not saying there aren't any. I don't know about any noises. Yeah, I didn't know that. Whoa, Well, that's what he was doing. And one of the stopped and there was one bull and maybe about eight or nine cows and he We crawled about a hundred and thirty hundred and forty yards to get to this area

that was like before the clearing. So we got into this one area that was like sparsely treed, and then we crawled through that area where we're kind of out in the open but not really and to get to this field that's completely open. It was dry, like a dried up late that grew up, and the closest we could get was about a hundred and ten yards, and so we were hoping that they would come around, and the closest one of the cows came around was probably

like ninety yards somewhere around then. And so then we were trying to debate how to handle this, and so he said, you know what, this is not gonna work because the cow, the cows, and the bull seemed to be moved being in a general direction of away from us. They weren't awhere. We were there. It took a long time to crawl there. So he says, let's just get up. We'll go back and then they'll know that we're there. And then I'm going to wolf at him through the trees.

So I'm gonna follow him through the tree line and wolf at him. And he followed him through the tree line, and this one lone bull hit me with the noise he makes. Who that's what he was doing. It was like he was like wolfing, almost like a dog before he starts. You know, they're like dogs in your house, like his warm up, his warm up mark, like your dog woke up in your bedroom and he kind of

hears something different. Yeah, my dogs used to do that when they would hear coyote in the distance, but hey, man, shut the funk up. So when uh so, when he wolfed they started, he was paying attention, he was moving towards He goes man, he goes to give this guy another week or two, and he would come charged at us, like what's up. When he said, I didn't know that that was a Yeah, it's a thing. It's a thing. So we uh we we settled with stalking and ambushing.

So like the whole thing was just like get it, finding them that they didn't know you were there, and then slowly creeping around edges without them noticing you and get to a place where and eventually the way I got the Neil guy was he spotted this group of bulls and um they were there, were with these turkeys, and they were around the edge of this corner, but only about like a hundred yards around the edge, and I was like, that's so close. We could just get

to that corner. I think we could sneak up close enough to get a shot. And so we did that and we got about ninety yards away, and then we went into the woods and then we got I got to about maybe like seventy or eighty and then I cree real slowly the rest of the way, But it was just very fortunate because the bull had his butt to me completely had no idea I was there. The turkeys knew, and they started they started like what what's happening?

What's going on? They were like moving around a little bit, and I was like, these bitches better not give me up because I was slowly creeping up to him. And then look at It was really exciting to hear. For you, those moments, the spotting stock moments are so exciting because like when the animal turns and goes broadside and you're like, whoa, now is the time It's like this is like who who.

It's like your heart starts beating and your adrenaline starts kicking and you're like, okay, keep it together, keep it together. I should point out real quick, uh that when I brought up the bow hunt Vanila guy, there's like a second complication is uh, we'll get into this, but there's the first complication that our friend was that it's hard to get close to him. You know, it's just hard. The second thing is is there uh. I don't want to say it's regarded as a no note to try

to get one of the bowl. But like anyone that's a familiar with Nil guy, when you talk about with the bowl, they're kind of like, yeah, I don't know, because you know, they can really take a hit and they want to run. They don't want to bleed. And what what's the hell is the word they used for the brush patches? Here? Man? It's not like mot what's the word mott? No, it's not what Brad? Yeah, what the hell is that? Uh? Like a brush patch kind of maybe a little elevation and he calls it the month?

They like any like the brushy areas? Yeah, yeah, you got your senderos, senderos and months, Yeah, the roads and if it's not a Sindero, it might be what's the giant opening at an opening? Oh, the the plan Grande? What the hell's that? That means the great plane? Okay? And then everything else is the the brush, the month, the Yeah. The fear is that you're gonna hit the nil guy in his his ask is gonna run into this brush, which is this serious brush. And that's exactly

what happened. When I was explaining to you how thick that brush is. My kid chased the turkey into that brush, and the turkey got snagged up at the brush and couldn't fly away. They got a turkey got tangled up in the brush. That's crazy, some thick ass brush. So you're you're trying to hit one, and there's a lot of like, it's not like, it's not that you're gonna wing it and assume you'll find it. No, No, there was.

It was fraught with peril. When it wound up working out well, I said to you at the end of the night, when I was very relieved that we got the nil guy, I was like, I think I might be one and done with bo hunt and nil guy. I'm stressful. I think you want to hit these suckers with a rifle. Because Jason was to tell me then when he hits one, Jason, great guy. I love him.

So Jason was saying that when he has a client, he'll have one in the chamber so and then the client hits it, and he'll hit him after the client hits it. Gun hunt, gun hunt, that's super common. I've I've watched it. I've actually watched it in this pasture. He didn't tell me that until we were trying to find blood and there was no, by the ways, and when I hit the I've you know, I've seen animals run when you hit him before. I have never seen an animal run like this said, it was like a cheetah.

Like a cheetah, That's what it's like. It was full clip. I mean they live in Asia, right, So what what part of Asia? And what kills them? Lions? No? No, no, no, what am I saying? Tigers from the Indian subcontinent in there? In there? Uh? Their historic predator is the the tiger. That makes sense. So they're like you've hunted, Access, dear. They are preposterously fast. I've never seen a thing move as fast as nothing like they're used to deal then

cat exactly. I had an arrow. I have a video of me bow hunting on the nie and I shot this. This one Access tore this. He was pretty big. Deer was feeding at eighty yards away and there was no wind, and it was like perfect conditions, and I really didn't think I'd get closer to him, and I was feeling good about the shot. It was very relaxed. So I launched this arrow. This arrow is track and perfectly towards

the vitals, and John Dudley gets it on videos. So he's filming this whole thing while it's happening, and we're like, this is gonna be the greatest shot of all time because it's like a perfect shot. And then ten yards from this access dear, the arrow is ten yards away. He's like not today and ducks and he's completely out of the frame by the time the arrow gets to him.

And I'm not exaggerating, you match, so you're talking about he's singing to himself in a couple of seconds, I'm gonna move because of this arrows like, oh jeesus, assholes shooting at me again. So I mean it's two hundred and you know whatever, two d seventy feet a second. This arrow is coming at him and from ten yards away, he's like see uh in that quick a time. And that's all because they evolve around tigers. Do you hear that?

Do you ever hear that deal about I want to get back to everything with the nil guy, But you ever hear that explanation? And I've talked about it before of like how how things experienced time being that when you go to smack a fly in your mind, you're like you're cocked back, you know, you're like a tiger. Right, You're like what, But in the fly, in his mind, he might be like, oh, what is this thing coming towards me? Right right right, I'm probably gonna need to

move out of the way. Oh yeah, it's coming. Well, he's only a weak flies only alive for a week, so it might be that he might experience that week like you do your eighty years. Yeah. Yeah, like there's that, There was that, There was that one day where that hand was coming down. Oh boy, let me get out of the way. He experienced He relished it like a roller coaster. Yeah, enjoyed it. He's like I sometimes like

to wait till it's really close. You know what always freaks me out about flies is how quickly they find a dead animal. It is so fast, like when when when an animals down, especially when there's a gut pile. It is instantaneous, like hundreds of flies out of nowhere, Like where were you? Guys? Don't even It wasn't like you were following me around. I didn't notice. It was like a fly infested area. It didn't seem like very flying. And then all of a sudden, there's flies everywhere, so

you creep. So I'm creeping up on this Neil guy. And it wasn't the best situation because I've had a problem. I have this, uh, this bow site that I really like for a lot of good reasons. It's a garment, uh, and it's a it's a range finding bow site. And what's interesting about it is instead of having a range finder and a site, it's all built into one. And uh, you you at full draw. There's a button on my riser. I hit the button and a dot goes onto the animal and then it shows me a pin. Well, yeah,

the dot it doesn't project to me. It doesn't projective. There's a lens, so you're looking through lens just like you're looking through like a traditional range finder, but it's

it's like the size of a bow site lens. It's much larger, you know, like a like a the best way to describe it, like a small sunglass lens, Like if you had a sunglass and you're looking through that and when you press a button, it gives you a dot, just like a range finder gives you a dot where you know you're you're pointing it at the area you want to hit, and then it gives you a number. It's got a little screen above it. It'll say like fifty three in this case, it was fifty three yards,

and then it shows you a pin. Well, in this it's it's been fucking up lately, and I I hit the button and it ranges. It's just fifty three yards but no pin, and I'm at full draw ranges. So you know, the moment when an animal turns broadside, you're trying to stay calm because you know this whole process of creeping up on him takes like twenty minutes or so. So during that time, your your whole you're like trying to keep your heart right down and breathing and just

like slow and steady. And when I get the shot, I'm gonna stay like this nice and calm. And so then is it trying to give you It's not trying to make a judgment. It's not giving me sh It is that like two times in a row. This has happened before, and it's not normal, but it's happened before on targets where I pressed the button and nothing happens, and I pressed the button and so I had to press it three times and finally gives me a pin.

So I'm like, okay, here we go. So I'm at full draw for a few seconds, and this is a very heavy boat. It's a ninety pound bow. So it's okay because there's a lot of let off, but you know, I'm I'm thinking now, like, jeez, how long can I hold this here? Like? How long is this gonna let I'm not gonna have to let down? All these thoughts in my mind, and then finally I get the pin. I'm like, okay, here we go. Can you hold it there for a second? Yes? Why um, you shoot a

ninety pound bow? Why? I think I've always wondered, is skinny ask guys like me, guys that could beat my ass in the fight? Why do so many people in your view hover at around like seventy pound drawways? Well, seventy pounds drawways comfortable to pull and if you don't lift weights, and if you're not a physically strong person, that's achievable. It's like you you can get there. I'm skinny,

ask guy that lifts weights. But I feel, like I said, like people that could beat my ass, they're also shooting a seventy poundbo which is it wasn't common like it was like through my whole life it wasn't common to hear someone pulling a ninety poundbo It's not common now is more common. I was just watch a video about this is that they were doing reviews on eighty pound bows and uh, the reason why I switched to a

nineties just because Cam did. Cam Haynes switched to a ninety and he had White made him a ninety, and I'm like, I'll try it. Let me try that ninety and it. I had a PSC that was last year and it was just too much. It was John Dudley tried to make the most ridiculous bow for me, you know, because he works with PSC. So he made a PSC pound bow with a very short brace hite and if you were accurate, it was ridiculous. But it was not forgiving at all because the brace site was very short.

And for for people who don't know, the brace side is the distance between the riser and the string, And if you have a good brace hide, like like seven inches, that's like more forgiving than five inches. And this was more like five inches. And but it would shoot a five hundred and thirty grain arrow three feet a second, which is really crazy, really fast, and the impact like the kinetic energy is incredible, like and you saw yesterday

with that nil guy, I mean total passed through. From looking at the animal, Uh, it was it was a quartering away. I hit it through the ribs, went through its entire body and out the front shoulder, full clean pass through and then the arrow was like thirty yards away when we found it. So we found the arrow cold.

When when I found the arl, I was pretty confident and I was like that arrow is just soaked with blood that and I was pretty confident in the hit, but I was not confident when I saw that sucker run. When I hit him, I was like whack. I'm like that looks good. And watching them run, I was like, oh no, like it's going so fast. It was going so fast. It was crazy full clip like I mean I don't know how many miles an hour, but he looked like it was going a hundred. It was just ridiculous.

And it was like then when they are running, yeah, it's so I don't want to say it's extra terrestrially. Yeah, it's like you kept saying, it's like some ship from Avatar. He didn't like a big there, like I don't know what the hell. I like a like a a short necked draft, a more athletic draft. Yeah, it didn't seem like you should be able to run that fast if he got hit good, because if you hit an elk good, like they get what like the arrow it hits some

they'll buck up and then they'll run off. But you could tell their hurt. I could not tell at all that he was hurt, like it made him healthier. It was like it's super charged him, like their will to live is insane, and it must be because they evolve around tigers. It has to be. So this sucker full clip runs off and all I could do is just sort of watch where he was going. And I was hoping that was gonna see signs of stumble and then

fall down because it was you know, he ran. Uh would you say it's about a hundred and thirty yards to where like I did a line distance on on accident? Was line distance a hundred and thirty? You know, he didn't take a securitist route to get there. It's kind of what you know, a slight arc. Yeah. So and when I saw the arc, we saw the arc, and then we started gritting, We started trying to figure out where he was me and Kran had that sh all wrong.

We're far off, yeah, but I was like, man, it'll be three in the morning, but we're gonna cover this entire By the time we're done, we'll haven't covered everything. I turned a track function on and I was telling Crane, okay, now move over twenty yards or whatever the hell was when to come back. And it would have been about three in the morning. We got over to where he gets where well Jason had We had looked and he had an application on his phone that showed a grid

of like it's the track track function. I can't remember what app he was using. So there was just one small area where he realized we didn't look earlier, and he went and looked there and he was just lying right there. But you know about that dude, Like he's good because I don't know if you noticed too when when I got the deer, I got a deer, and I was kind of a little nervous. I was like, there's no blood, but I mean I saw the it

was coming on. I saw the broadhead and the arrow coming off of his back hip like it ran the entire length of but there's no blood. And I'm like questioning what I saw, and I said to this guy, this is the guide the guides out here. I said to him, I'm like, man, he kind of went like and I showed like where he went, and it was like he wasn't listening to me. He swings way left and goes here it is, yeah, Like I was like, what, Like, what possibly were you going on? You aren't even here.

He was asking you, though, Did hear what he was asking you? He was asking you what side you hit it on. He's like, if you hit it on the right side, it's gonna go towards the left. That's the one thing he said. He was right. I show him where it went in. I was like kind of like front, like kind of strong quartering towards me in the front shoulders. So he just strikes off that way and almost like

like magnetically drawn to it, like right there. Yeah, I mean he's It's guides are interesting because you spend that much time just constantly around these animals. I think you get a sense of them that I just don't have. He's he does like he has a regular job. Yeah, he finished concrete. He has a concrete business. I think he goes, oh, it's just my part time dealing Like, well, how much eighty guys a year. I'm like, okay, well that's that's that's a lot of that's a lot of.

He loves it though. He loved the sneaking in on him, like he got all excited about it. It was was fun. It was interesting that he when he got here and I was here, I was really curious to hang out with him. I'm like, you know, I'm like, I don't know the first thing about Neil guy. I've done it a couple of times with a rifle, which is totally different experience because he's basically go out, look for one and shoot it and that's how that goes. Uh So I was really curious to see, like how could one

consistently get up close on him. But it's funny is he didn't jump out of his truck to be like, here's why I have a black shirt and a black cowboy hat on right, I just good man and black. Johnny cash fan doesn't come out and I was like, like, you might be wondering why. Now here's a cool guy, fun guy to talk to. All the minute I met him, I talking to a couple of sackers. I went until John. I'm like, this guy is cool, it'll be fun. You

always you always nervous. It was real fun. And you know when we're going around the corner, when I was creeping up on the nil guy, uh he laid back to He's like yeah, I was like slow it down. It was like, this is just better if it's just one of us, because like you know, the turkeys and all this ship. I'm like so so he just hung back. Was he giving you a bunch of input on do this and don't do that when it comes time to shoot it. No, No, he told me where their organs are,

but I had already knew that. I had done a bunch of research online. There they are. All their stuff is closer to the front than um than um like an elk or a deer, which is interesting. They're they're built differently. Yeah. Yeah, so he told me that, but I had already I was already aware of that. But uh, I think I really do think on one and done with bo hunting them. Watching the way he ran off, like you just that I hit him perfect. It was

a great show, not a back of blood nothing. And and even when we got up to it, you probably noticed this we got up to it. The in hole. There's an in hole and there's an out hole. There's no blood stain on its body. Yeah, it wasn't until we were we rolled it up. It wasn't until we rolled it up that and then by that point it had been dead for forty minutes. Wasn't ntil we rolled it up that some blood trickled out and there was clean It looked like someone had washed it. It's crazy.

It was just a little bit of dribble. It was coming out of the hole, but a little bubble, but none of it was on the ground. Zero on the ground. And you gotta also think about that arrow that we found. So we find this arrow. It blows through his body, so he's quartering away. It hits his ribs, goes through the entire this large body, cavity goes through the entire body, cavity out the front shoulder, goes thirty yards past his body. Nothing sprays out, nothing, zero, no, and the the arrow

is soaked with blood. Not thing comes out of his body. I was like, what a strange animal like, this is so strange. But the sheer panic that I had when I've seen him run that way, I was like, oh no, and I was It was almost like it's playing tricks in me, like maybe I didn't hit him good, like maybe I hit him bad, maybe I hit his foot or maybe, you know, maybe maybe I'm delusional like I thought it was. I had the pen right where I wanted to. My arm was steady, the release was good.

I hear swack when he hits his body, and like I got oh no. That was like literally the thought process like I got him. I didn't even finish got him because I got oh my god, look at that sucker go PM just full clip and then he just ran until he was gone. It was both of his lung so he uh, he just expired from a lack of air within a hundred thirty yards. So he probably

covered that hundred thirty yards in ten seconds too. Yeah, that's that's the funny thing about when you're when you do get into a bad situation, you're trailing something, you lose sight of, um, what it took to cover the distance versus what it took you to cover the distance. So if you have a really bad blood trail and you find it a little speck and a little speck

in a while later, you know you're into it. Forty five minutes, you haven't started circling X. You don't want to mess up, you don't want to stamp out any blood because you want to keep the trail intact. And you know, forty five minutes later, you realize you're a hundred yards away, and you're like, I don't it seems like you're on this journey. What do you think about your mind? That was seconds seconds, seconds, so it didn't

bleed for seconds. Yeah, but you're making all these you know, all this wild ideas about what's going to happen on down the blood trail or whatever. You know. I remember, like being a real little kid man in a like my dad would go hunt, or my brothers, or when I got older, I would go to when I once I turned twelve and goold bow hunt, just going on many, many, many, many blood trails, and it'd be like someone had hit

a deer. Everybody come home, you'd eat dinner, You get the Coleman lanterns out and ship and spend an hour trying to get those things going, get all the lanterns and walk out on the blood trail, and it'd either be that everybody look and they couldn't find any blood, and you get the sinking feeling like two, we're gonna be here ntil two in the morning on the fall asleep out in the woods. This is miserable, or it'd be like someone went through the woods of the spray

can of red paint and it'll just be euphoria. And I still carry with me so much to that, like when it's when you can't find blood, you're like, it ran right through here and you can't find blood. I still can never shake that just sinking feeling. Yeah, that was how I felt. But on the flip side, when we got back to the house after we found him, we got back to the house, it was the greatest feeling in the world. It was like, I'm so relaxed because I don't have that dread of like not being

able to find this animal. And the worst case scenario would be you find him, like you ran four or five yards, but now the meat is no good. Now he's just dead for no reason. It's hot ash and it's it's like you don't have you can't even joke, like even in cold weather, you're kind of like with the elk, will go find him in the morning. You're kind of bullshitting yourself because a lot of it will

be good, but you're you're gonna lose a lot. You're gonna you know, like even if it's fifty degrees you can go find in the morning, like it's something it's there's gonna be parts that are gonna be not there's parts that are probably gonna spoil um. But here you wouldn't even be able to kid yourself. Yeah, you wouldn't kid yourself. Turkey buzzards and coyotes and just whatever. If we found him in the morning, it would be a mess, would be a bloated pile. Yeah, it would be horrible.

I mean it was like it's probably eighty degrees yesterday, right, But hey, can you tell the story about the guy? Are you allowed to tell that story about the guys that killed the havelna's for for ships and giggles? Oh yeah yeah. So there in Texas you can kill to ha alina's a year and there's no tags or anything, and there they are a game animal. And so because they're a game animal, there's waste of meat their native wildlife. Yeah, you have to retain the meat. And this is anecdotal,

but I heard this story. I might I think I read it, maybe even like maybe it was on the game warden blotter or something like maybe I dreamed it. Yeah, at this point I'm completely mistrusting it now that i'm that's a great story. I like it, and if it's not true, I think it should. I think a game

warden should keep this one in his back pocket. It's a fable at least, it's you know, it's cautionary tale about going out and shooting a bunch of havelinas and dragging them to the gut pile, which is game warden checked on some hunters and ask if they shot anything, and they're like, yeah, we' just got some havolina's. I'm putting words in their mouths right now. Uh. And he's like, well, where's the meat and they're like, oh, we didn't, we didn't take any. We just drug him out to the

gut pile. And it was, you know, two or three days it transpired. And he's like, no, they're that's game animal. You have to harvest the meat from him. And he made them go after the fact, out to the gut polling quarter. These uh, rotten swollen I'd like it only the thing that would make the story better is if you grabbed him by the ear, took him by the ear and dragged him out. I really want to know what it tastes like. Yeah, you can make a taste

like meat by depending you know, trees or whatever. Yeah. I think that's what I'm gonna do. Get theresa made with it. So if you don't, if you say you want to, if you you don't, you wouldn't hunt nil guy again. Okay, that's all is gonna ask you. How how um how not interested in gun hunting already? I did like the archery stuff so much. I don't not like gun hunting. I do like gun hunting. Yeah, I

like both. Yeah, yeah, well, I mean one of the things that people don't want to admit people that are archery hunting enthusiasts is that it's not the best way to hunt. It's like, the most ethical way to hunt really is with a rifle. Like if you're counting black, if you're counting like greatest likelihood of the quickest death, yes, like I had uh Like I hunted to Hone Ranch last year and I had a really lucky first day.

I was with Evan Hafer, and Evan shot a nailk on the first day, and I shot at nilk on the first day, and uh, I was supposed to be there for six days, so uh they had pig tags that were available, so it's like, all right, let's go do some pig hunting. And they're like, you want to do rifle or bow? And I said, you know what, let's go. Let's go rifle. Let's go for fun. And I shot a pig at eight yards and he died

where he stood. Boom, it went through him. He just fell over dead, smoke coming out of his mouth, and and I thought to myself, I go, this is so

much more effective. Like if I shot that that pig with a with a bow, he would have taken off and it would have probably been you know, we have to go find him, and you're going under because in uh a lot of these ranches, you know where the pigs will live as you have like heavy bush and they get into the bushes, and so he probably would have went in there and I probably would have had to crawl in and drag him out, and then I probably would have hoped that he was dead while I

was doing this. And tunnels, yeah, like equation, but you know, like in Vietnam when he had to take a pistol and flashlight and going to those tunnels us not in any way saying the same thing, but I seen hog tunnels, which you're like, oh god, yeah, and usually not want to get one on one with a hog with a knife. Oh it was a good bore too. I mean he

had good tusks and he was a big sucker. Um. I'm not opposed to rifle hunting as a matter of fact, Like if if it got to a situation where I was so busy that I didn't never that's not true that it's never gonna happen. It was would never be a situation where I never have enough time to go on like real long hunts. I'll make sure at this point in my life because just because I enjoy it too much, and it's it's such a break for me.

It's such a like a cleansing of all the other stuff on my mind, you know, when like say, when you and I were there, you're rattling and I got an arrow knocked, and my head's on a swivel. I'm not thinking about jack shit, no anything other than what's going on. Um. But I think rifle hunting is more. It's more effect div, it's probably more humane, you know. Uh, it's it's just there's a reason why they invented guns.

They're better than bows. But in terms of satisfaction, the animals that I've killed with my bow are the most. They're hard. It's harder to do. It's just much harder to do. Like that fifty three yard shot that I hit that nil guard with, that's easy with a rifle. I could do that off hand with a rifle, no problem, confident. But with a bow, it's like, you know, there's so much going on. I'm gotta to be steady, breathe out, don't rush the shot, pull through it, the shot breaks.

Everything was perfect. But everything was perfect because of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours of practice. If you gave me a rifle, I haven't shot a rifle in a year. If you gave me a rifle right now, I'm a hundred percent confident I could shoot a nil guy at fifty three yards off hand. Yeah, I hope. So. Yeah, it's like it's it's a better weapon. But I think that people confuse when people talk about ethics, are oftentimes confusing two things there's there people be like, well, I

like to hunt with the books. It's more ethical. It'd be like, it's more challenging, challenging, it's more challenging. So that's great, But that's not you assessing um, that's not you assessing in in in weighing. However, one chooses the way animal like the welfare and well being likelihood of injuring. Yeah, I meaning if you really want to get down to like, like to take a commercial slaughter plant, how do they when they're like, hey, we want quick death, we're gonna

be ethical, what are they gonna do. They're not gonna shoot with the bowl. They're gonna take a pneumatic bolt and punch of I don't want is a three quarter diameter stainless steel rod all the way through its brain. Yeah, And they'd be like, that's humane. Yeah, I thought archery hunt was humane, Like archie hunt's hard. Yeah, it's sorry.

There's a there's a restaurant in Austin and they serve a lot of wild game meat in a lot of antelope and stuff like that, and this guy was telling me that one of the things that they do is they they hire snipers and that these snipers shoot these animals in the brain. They shoot him in the head, and uh, they're like, and Jesse, you could tell me about this. How much does it affect the flavor if an animal is stressed out, Like if an animal gets

hit and runs and has that adrenaline rush. How much of an impact does that have on the taste of the meat. It can be huge. Um, I mean I think for that reason. You know, there's I mean, a rifle shot has a more likelihood of bringing it down immediately in the case of a big bore or any animal like that. You're the larger the animal, the more likely it is it's gonna run. Um, you know, even

debilitating shot from a rifle. But I think stresses, along with just any kind of bacterial contamination, stress is going to be one of the contributing, main contributing factors to having it tastes stronger. Um. You could like different textures in the meat, you know, the lactic acid build up, stuff like that. And anecdotally, Um, you know, I've I've seen hogs shot versus caught in a snare, identical hogs.

I might have even told this story on your podcast. Uh, and how well the one that was caught in the snare was inedible, and they were There was two styles, probably about eighty pounds each. They could have come out of the same litter. One dropped with a spine shot and one was so exhausted when we came up to her she was in a snare that she couldn't even stand up when we walked up there. Uh and and that one was one of the worst tasting pigs I've

ever I've ever seen. And so I mean, I can I mean, it's not a lot of data right there. It's totally anecdotal. Plus like I got a couple of things that like to add and I don't want to in any way discredit your explanation. And you didn't say anything that's inaccurate. But we have twice. Who's that dude we had on from Purdue Chris Calkins. Was he Calkins or Caulkins? I can never call because we got one that works for us, same damn name, But they're like

insistent that they on that. I think it's whatever the hell Calkins Caulkins the same spelling as the other guy we hang out with the likes it the other way. So Calkins or Caulkins. Is it Chris it is? He's a meat scientists. He's just a meat scientists from Purdue University. He's come on the podcast twice to explain. He did a great job. Like all that ship like, okay, what is when something stressed? What is it that we're talking about?

All the ship with rigor mortists, like all the ship with temperature after death, all the ship with hang time, hang position, um, Like why do you hang it upside down? Why hang it by its neck versus by it's hot X? What happens when you bone meet out? What you're not allowing to happen when you bone it out warm and it hasn't gone through rigor on the tendon? And a lot of shit about stress, like what exactly chemically is happening to an animal that's stressed. He does a great

job explain. I mean it's this whole subject to research his whole career and um like slaughterhouse practices and all that kind of ship. He does a great job on it. The snaring hogs. I have a half dozen hogs snares that I've had that I've owned for over a decade, dying to use them. Um, have never used him. I had a guy that that is a wildlife control guy

in Hawaii that does pig removal. He said, the number one problem with using snares for hog removal is that people think they want the hogs gone until they got to listen to a hall are gonna snare all night. Then they'd lose their interest in having the hogs be gone. So that you're talking about stress, it'll have people be like, never mind, get the snares out of here. I can't handle it. Wow all night? Yeah, I can imagine. You know, we get I mean at the restaurant, we serve ferrell

hog that's been inspected. So that hog was caught in a big trap. So they went in the trap. It was having a treat and then then the gates drop and so that's it. That's a big stressor right there. And you've ever seen the videos, they go nuts. They're trying to get out any which way. Okay, they're stressed out. Okay, Now a trailer is gonna back up, a monster is gonna pull up, you know, a diesel monster with the

trailer is going to back up. And now all these hogs get escorted, you know, like on you know, like prodded by little monsters that get out and make them get up there for their first car ride, their first car ride down the highway, down the highway. That stress. Okay, so the world or you know there, it's just like a world. It's it's a it's a trip into outer space for them. They're going down the highway and then they get to their destination and what does that smell like?

It smells like death and they get put in this holding pen for however long it is before feral hog processing day, which at our processor I believe is every It's either every week or every other week, so they might be in there for for a while. Um. But the thing is is that these hogs never tastes uh like with within the attributes that you would assume that a large amount of stress would would give them. They're

fine at that point. So maybe there's some sort of plateau that happens where they're gender, they're they're acutely stressed, and then they're generally well, isn't it a different thing you're talking about. You're talking about not just stress with that snared hawk, you're talking about lactic acid. Yeah, the physical struggle is probably very different than just a psychological stress,

but the adrenaline stress versus lactic acid. I would imagine when you're fatigued to death, like literally, like you can't move when you know that people are coming to get you, that's probably just an enormous amount of lactic acid through the system. I gotta I got a question for you, Jesse. We get a lot of people right in who are confused by what they censor. These big, big contradictions in

wildlife management, particularly around the sale of wildlife parts. Okay, a couple of examples to be if you can't sell wild game, which is generally true, like you generally can't sell wild game, why can you buy a taxidermied head? Why can you buy an antler? Okay, and that would be like that's like by product, not the meat in that explanation. Why can you sell beaver meat to sled

dogs for for sled dog food? Why can you sell a beaver's fur if you're not allowed to sell wild game be like, well, because that lives under a different regulatory structure, which is it's a fur bearer, it's it's not technically a game animal. Why can you sell fish? Why can people go to the ocean sell fish. If you can't sell wild game, that's fisheries. It's like historically been under totally different regulatory structure than wild game. Why can you sell bear grease as a hair dressing but

you can't sell bear grease as a food additive? It would be because you can't it's a game animal. You can sell by product for non food. I'm speaking very general terms. You can sell by product for non food and purposes the same way I could sell you a bear hide, my old taxidermy I didn't want any more, But I couldn't have sold you edible food item marketed to you as bear meat. So there's all these like you know, it's it's complicated. It frustrates people that it

doesn't make clean sense. There's too many things that sit outside of the rule, right, it's hard to understand how the rules even came to place. But how in the hell if I go into your restaurant, how can I go in and buy nilgai and they're not they're they're they're not fenced in there, they're not domestic, Or how can I go and buy a wild pig? Like, how does that? How does that not fly in the face of this whole no wild game thing. Texas has different

laws with invasive species. They have different laws with introduced species, like species from Asian Africa. You could buy them, they sell them like they sell cattle. But yeah, but they can't go out of the state like like and you they can, okay, like break it down from me, give me break give me the version of how you get a nil guy and what the rules are, and how you get a pig and what the rules are and what can't you do, like you can't right now, like

maybe you can. Could you go right now and shoot a nil guy? Got it out and sell in your restaurant? No? Okay? So that that's what I'm like, I'm not okay, I know you're not breaking law. Explain it to have an inspector. So we're gonna let's break the pigs and uh and then everything else into two different categories. And we'll start

with the like the noil guy specifically. So these big ranches down here, you know that, you know along the South Texas coast where the nil guy are well, often if they need to call out a bunch of cows will hire an outfit, and that that outfit is generally broken arrow as a female nil guy correct, sorry sorry, uh broken arrow ranch out of Ingram, and they'll come down here and they'll shoot no guy from helicopters. UM. And the whole process has to be done very correctly

with a with an actor there. Since they're going over state lines, they're going to be U. S D A UM and so there they'll come down. They'll they'll take maybe eighty in a day. UM. And then they have these big refrigerated trailers and this crew that rolls down. What shots are they going for? Shooting head shots? Shooting head shots with presumably like from a helicopter, head shots of the rifle. And then they will process everything under inspection and then we'll take it back to their facility

in Ingram, which is in the hill country. And from there they ship all over the country. And they're probably the pre eminent supplier of wild game and especially like high quality wild game. Uh. And they do uh different species. There's access. Sometimes you can get things like I believe they sell follow and maybe red deer, but they can't do with white tails. Correct, you can't do it because that's native game. It's native and it's a protected game species.

Now I know there's white tail farms, I don't I don't know of any in Texas and I don't know the regulation around that, but you I think they can be farmed here. Plenty of other species that will fill that void, and they're typically invasive, and so it's it's best to utilize that as a resource. So your NIL guy in your access um we at the restaurant, we've had nil guy access Red David Pear, David, I'm Red Deer Pear, David Um even all dad that were cold

off of off of ranches. So when it's in your restaurant, it's been inspected on the ground correct. So and that's since they're distributing beyond state lines, that's U s d A. Now, conversely, you've got feral pigs which are trapped live like we just described that process, and they're brought into a facility in Fredericksburg where they're inspected by a state inspector because he's not going to distribute the correct an anti mortem inspection,

so before they're killed. All pigs are done that way. All Ferrell Hawgs, Yes, and so they can be either state or U. S d A. If they're not going over state. Lions they don't need to be U. S d A. And since his most of his distribution is probably to us AT, you know, and then a few other places, he's not gonna mess with the kind of the burdensome regulations that having a U. S d A

inspector in your facility comes with. You know, so your hogs and your restaurant live trapped, live trapped, state inspected, state inspected, they have a blue Texas stamp on them, got it. But there is a there is a way, there is an avenue well federal inspector to then have the you have Texas wild hogs federally inspected can go yes, And that's also common. So I mean most most Ferrell hog and Ferrell hog products in the United States are

probably coming from Texas. Yeah, And so they're they're going to be acted under. Do you know when they inspected, what they're looking for obvious signs. I know they're looking at the inside of the They're gonna be looking at the organs for indications of for what they would call condemn they would condemn that animal um and then I think just general health while it's on the hoof, you know, just make sure it's not lame or showing obvious signs

of being sick or anything. And then there's some there's something on the inside of the ribs I remember hearing about, and then the an organ inspection and then it's good to go after that. UM. But Broken Arrow is U s d A and they also do Ferrell Hawk. God, so they're USDA Farrell Hawk because their distribution is wider and so and they do it. They do a phenomenal job, like the quality of the me the aging process UM.

They do that electro stimulation UM and then they age everything really appropriately at the at the facility and then it's it's overnight. It it's it's an incredible company. Can you buy? Like if you as a restaurant guy, Uh, can you buy? Is it just cheaper for you to buy domestic pigs? By the time all that ship's done, it's about the same price. Yeah, you think Farrell Hoggs

would be dirt cheap. But because of the the trap, the trap, the trapper, the gaspel, the trailer, the processing, the distribution, UM, it's not set up in the same structure and it's not as efficient, so it does and you know, incur a bit of costs and so at the end of the day, a heritage breed pig, a large black red wattle, uh, and Ferrell hog are going to be about the same price. I gotta I gotta last question for you, Joe, where, um, where are you at as a home cook? And how has like game

meat sort of change your thing? And what what's your family's attitude towards you know, the all the all the game you guys eat. They love it because we eat so much. Um. But um, where I'm at is uh, Well, one thing I did is uh, I started cooking everything, like, not everything, but most of what I do, I cook very slowly on a smoker. I usually use a trigger, but I recently bought an actual Texas offset smoker, which I'm excited to do. You're saying someone made you one

up that you're excited about. Yeah, yeah. And I also got one of those Argentine steak grills, which is great. So I really got into wood, uh, cooking over wood. I mean, I've always loved like cooking on a trigger because I think it doesn't part like a flavor of wood to the food. But actual wood burning wood is next level and there's there's a convenience factor. Oh that

the trigger is amazing. It's just the fact that I can tell my kids, tell my kids like listen, yeah, I checked my phone and it tells you what temperature the meat is. That's incredible. But there's also these probes called meter prob Yeah, those are great, and you know you could use those and those also you can check on your phone. It gives your projection and when you're gonna be it's a pretty good projection to due to be.

Like I really like there's something about cooking over wood actual wood too, that gives you there's this caveman thing inside of you. It's like fire food. Like I remember the first time we hunted in Montana. That was I never I never killed an animal and I certainly never killed a him. Uncooked it over a fire like a camp fire, Like this is the greatest ship in the world.

Like this this is like whatever it is, Like we're talking about this the other day that this is like a door that you can open up in your brain, Like I didn't even know this door was there, Like I don't even know this was an area of my house, Like what's in here? And it was like the oh, you just hunted and killed something and now you're gonna eat it door and uh, And I was like, this is my favorite room, Like this is my favorite room of the house. I don't even know it existed before.

And that's what it feels like when I cook when it while I'm sitting there outside and I've got these elk steaks and I basted them in olive oil and I've got some some sea salt on them, and I'm just sitting them on this grill and the fires crackling and the smoke is lifting up and I could smell it. I'm in my glory. I'm having so much fun. I'm so relaxed. Maybe I have a glass of wine. I'm just chilling with my dog. It's the greatest thing in the world. And then the taste of it is so fantastic,

and um, it does impart part that smoky flavor. And my favorite way to finish them, I like to do a reverse here with game me. I've tried a bunch of different methods, but to me, especially when it comes like with elk steaks, um, the best result that I've ever found is a slow temperature like two five degrees somewhere in that range until it hits about a hundred and ten hundred and twenty internal and then a really hot cast iron pan with with beef tallow and then

I see it on the outside. But what do you but you're not talking, su Vie, like what are you doing to get it up to that initial town? I just with the Argentine grill I have, you know, so you're indirect with monitoring the temperature and the thing. That's what's very nice about the trigger because it's very uh very like you could set you set to twenty five. It gives you to like it's going to keep it there.

It's really good at that um that you can do that with the with an Argentine grill or a smoker, just a little bit more fiddling around with it um and then you know, so that's slow cook to get it up to like and then searing it. That's my favorite. But I also like to you know, cook things like stir fry things with eggs. I like to do that. That's what I'll do with like ground elk. But I feel a lot of ground elk to my dog. That's it's really like dog food is like what are you

feeding your dog? Like? What's in that? Like did you have any idea, Like it's like if you love your dog, like, would you give your friend that? Like what's in there? Like? So even if you buy expensive dog food, I'm always like, what's how I never investigated. I've never gone to a dog food plant and see how they put it together. I'm sure I'd be horrified. But what I know is the difference between the way he reacts when I put dog food down and the way he reacts when I

put ground elk down. He goes bonkers. I mean, it's not like you can't stop eating the he just dives into the food. So you know the thing, the thing we do with I don't even call my dog, my wife kids dogs. You don't like dogs. I think that's so weird that you don't like dogs. How could you? How could you not like this? Because dogs tell you

real quickly. It's not that I don't like him. I don't understand what they do all day, Like what what because Kyle Kyo wakes up, the Kyle wakes up the morning, a fox wakes up in the morning, a wolf wakes up in the morning. Some bitch has ship on his agenda. Yeah, because they have to, because they're a dog. I come home and I'm like, yeah, to come home. The dogs, Like, what do you been doing all day? He don't have

to do. It's just just chilling. It's just like the only thing in the house that doesn't have a you know, if we're taking the news up, then then I'm like, Okay. When we take the dog out, you know, I get okay, he's up to something. Have you tried leaving him a list? It's not that I don't like Listen, my kids like. My kids like the dog more than they like me. Brings endless joy to the world. All that I told him, I said, listen, that dog isnt gonna last that long.

Oh my God, don't tell him that, Jesus Christ. But anyways, here's why, here's why I'm actually nicer to the dogs than anyone else's. I anytime I braise something, uh or any kind of boiled stuff, I save just the jugs of the liquid and I put and I put a couple of slugs of that boiled meat water Already want to call it that dog. It turns that dog's attitude around about anything in its bolting. If I'm home and I'm every day dose in its food, whatever like enhancing

its food with that boiled meat liquor. It'll, uh, if I'm not there, they won't touch its food. It'll it'll starve itself into eventually wanting to approach that food again. But then like do you ask, like you like live a lot, I'll live around. Young animals are old stuff. Uh, I chop it, boil it. Dog loves it. And we had we had someone on the show. Reason they're explained. The more they all their lungs, all their kidneys, they

make their own dog food. My dog reacts to liver, like exponentially more than he reacts to even ground elk. Liver is the king with him. I give him a piece of liver, like the just the desire in his eyes. He sits staring at me, and my dog is like the furthest from like a killer that you could have. He's a golden retriever. He's just a big love sponge. You know, he's the best. But like if he well he's a killer of squirrels. I'll tell you that that's

his number one job. Like he just goes out and tries to kill squirrels and he only gets one like every four or five months, Like every four or five months, I'll get a squirrel. One time I came home from work. It was funny. I came home, I let him outside to open up the door, and I took a leak, and uh, in the time it took me to take a leak, I come out and he's standing there with a squirrel in his mouth, like, look what I got, And it just like recently dead squirrel. And I don't know.

I'm kind of conflicted. I'm like, I don't know. I don't want to cook it and eat it because it's his, and I don't want him to eat it because I don't, you know. I'm like, all right, let's uh, let's take that from you, buddy. He wanted to he wanted me to know, you know. But other than that, you know, it's not like he's out there like taken down. Well, he actually did chase a deer. We had to deer in my yard, and I've never seen him chase after

anything like you chased after these deer. The fact that he can differentiate between a deer and any other four legged animal, like a dog who's his friend. Like if he saw a dog, he'd be like, hello, dog, you're my friend. But those deer. He's like full clip chasing after me. He actually chased him into the neighbor's yard and came up big hullabaloo. Our our dog chases dear, but it got the ship kicked out of it by

turkey's a couple of times. And now like if that dog is doing something bad and that look at it and look the other way like it's like it thinks that if if it doesn't make eye contact with me, it'll be like better. And when there's turkeys around in the yard, that dog tries to look at him and tries to act like it's not looking at it looks at the turkeys at the corner of its eyes. He's like a bully at the bus stops. Like something tells

me I have to chase him. But jes those things, Oh yeah, do you do you do big bones, big game bones for your dog? Um? I did this year? This year, Um I did. Uh. I have a lot of elk bone marrow that I can't wait to that actually just got back. We chopped him up and uh you met Ryan that was at the UH when he was helped me hang up the skulls and stuff like that. He delivered it to me, so I'm I'm gonna give it to him. But we made a mistake of I didn't know that you're not supposed to give a dog

a bone once that bone has been baked. Well, yeah, I know, because they demolish it. I got swallow and then it jams up there inttional. Well yeah, I got a bunch of trouble about that ship, so with my family, because she's like, I got sick, was vomiting up a little bone. So now if I hand that dog a bone, she immediately goes to the door. She's got her head like I gotta get away before someone takes it from me, and she'll then she'd be like suck it, and she'll

go under the table to eat the bone. So now when I give her a bone, I tell the kids, like I'm gonna give the dog a bone, it's your job to take it away from it before and it gets the good pieces off, but before she starts just consuming bone fragment. So you still give her bones that have been cooked, only under supervised circumstances. I won't even mess with it anymore because I think even under supervised circumstances, if they break a piece off and swallow it. You're

not gonna be able to stop that from happening. You should only give him raw bones. I learned that out the hard way. But thankfully he's okay. But yeah, um, I'm doing a bone marrow this year, which I'm really excited about for the dog or for a year. Yeah, it's amazing, Like if you can put those the bigger bones to put them in a vice and then take a saw down and then build up a big coal bed and then just drop them cut side up right in the coals, like roast him in the bones and

just salt on top of that. Yeah, it's great. Like we'll even take a band saw or um, you know I have I have a Milwaukee Uh they come a porter band like a portable band saw, and I like to it's clean. You might you might not like this idea. It's clean, but I freeze them, yeah, and then cut

them frozen because it's just so clean that way. Caught them frozen, and then I put a little I just lay him on a foam in the oven on a cookie sheet and do like your top about and a cross cutter cross no cross cutting, not boats, little disks. And then if you're feeling real sexy. I'll take a little sprig of a little sprig of time and make it like a little tree grown out. So it's got a little tree grown out of it, and he put

salt on that ship's good. So to answer your question, I have some of the bones for him, some of the bones from me, the ones where it doesn't look like I'm gonna get much marrow out of them, you know, a little skinny leg portions. When you get those to him. Families cool on game, they love it. Yeah, but my kids have been eating wild game for I mean I started hunting with you ten years ago. Oh, so they never had to go through the like just normal to them,

just normal to them. Yeah. I mean my one daughter was four, my other one was too at the time, so you know, like I never had to talk about it. No. She She used to love telling her friends that her favorite thing to eat was bear because I use your recipe of bear candy. Oh yeah, really good, inspired off of p F. Chang's Mongolian bees. O. God, it was so delicious. It was so delicious, and we cooked it over rice, you know, I served it rather over rice. Forgot it was so good, and then it was their

favorite thing ever. They loved it. But obviously it's very sweet, you know, the sugar involved in it. But you know, so when they told their friends at school, like you should have seen my friend's face, they're like, what's your favorite thing to you know? I like bear and they're like,

kid's house I love. I remember one time when we're living in Seattle and I sent my kid down to school though muskock sandwich, and I remember saying, I'm like, I'll tell you one thing I guarantee has never happened. Every bought the muskock sandwich down to your school that you can bet on, I mean, all the things you can bet on that you can bet on. But what

a crazy animal that is? I mean, that's that's another animal that I feel like, if you hunted that sucker with a bow, you better keep an eye on it. You don't even find any blood. How how's it even gonna drip any blood out all that crazy fur. The upside is there's no vegetation. There's vegetation. It's ankle high, and their their impulse isn't the whole ass. There would

be more like you know we're talking about yesterday. If you oh, you know, I don't think we're rustlers, but we're amusing about if you arrow the cow right right right, Yeah, be a while, but you don't go where you're probably gonna find it. Yeah, it'll be it'll go over and stand over there. Yeah. And with the muskocks you do with the white surface to you can go hundreds of yards and I'll just be standing here watching it. Uh. Yeah, that was a good time. And there's a when I

hunted muskok um on. I did it one time where I drew up tag to hunt muskots on noon Nevak Island, uh with the chupic eskimo. And I always like to point out that when they're butchering the muskoks, they will say, this is a good part. It's chewy. H And where I was like, this is a good part, it's tender. Yeah. They like that. They're like, oh, I like the neck

because it's chewy. Have you ever seen where anthropologists break down and biologists break down the problems that people are having with their jaws and their teeth and crowding of teeth in the diminishing of size of the lower jaw. Yeah, that the dentist and early twentieth century went around and documented native peoples around the world and there, I mean, the healthiest ones were the ones eating like high meat diets,

followed by high fish diets, and then it just went down. Yeah, it's not just health, it's actually the physical shape of the jaw. But it was attributed like general health started, I mean, his whole thing was started with the jaw, and you're in the shape of the teeth. So ea, Chewing tough meat was always a part of humans, and that's the reason why we look at like a robust, square jaw as being something that's attractive genetically. That's someone

who's had good meat you've been chewing. Now, if you look at people that live in areas we eat a lot of porridge and a lot of like mush, they developed fucked up teeth and they have like these little tiny ass jaws, and that's malnutrition. And it's it's also attributed to this notion that your jaw developed up in accordance to the amount of meat that you have to break down. He's got a good, strong jaw. Yeah, Yeah, isn't that fine, But that's what that's. Yeah, and there's

a guy named mew um I forget. His last day was first name around there, but his last name is Mew And he's a dentist, and he was trying to figure out I believe he's dentist, but he's a doctor. He's trying to figure out, like what is causing this um grouping of teeth like to be smashed in together and all all funked up, and what's causing them? And is there a way to mitigate that? And so he developed a method called mewing. And this method is where

you're like literally pressing your tongue down. I don't I don't know what the method is, um exactly, I've never tried it, but this, uh, this, there's a lot of people that have actually changed the shape of their jaw through mewing, because it turns out your your jaw is actually some thing that can be manipulated. It's not like all the other bones like you you can buy this method. There's like before and afters where people can like make

their teeth more spaced out. His idea was like this thing of like just use braces, Like why why is it happening? I wonder why is it happening? Why are the teeth bunching? Up, and his belief is that they're bunching up because people don't have access to difficult things to chew, where the jaw gets like more robust. One thing you'll notice with weightlifters too, um and and people who clamp down on mouthpieces a lot, like over the

course of time, they will develop a thicker jaw. Like it's something that that happens to you from Like if you think about it, like a lot of people lift weights with um mouthpieces. Um, it's really good idea. Actually, weeth develop microfractures. I might have microfractures almost all when I used to when I used to booze it up too much partying. Um, that was one of the things that the microfractures in my teeth because I clenched my jaw at night. That's such a weird thing, so hard

it'll hurt so um. These weightlifters that do that that, like bite down on mouthpieces, it actually makes your jaw thicker and stronger, to the point where there's a product that you can buy. I actually have. It's called jaws or size, and it looks like like a golf ball maybe with like two divots in it where your teeth slide in and you put it in your mouth and it's weightlifting for your mouth. So you put this thing in you like this and you're crunching down on this

rubber ball. Yeah, so you can go. You abs gluten and your job and it makes your job muscles stronger, which would be really good for a fighter because like part of the problem is the jaw being dislocated and moved it. It's like that's one of the ways you

get knocked out. You get hit in the jaw. And if your jaw is more sturdy and it's more muscle there, it might prevent you from certain knockouts when you protect you rather so if you're if you if a fella is doing that, you put that in and it's like

you gonna spend ten minutes or whatever. Yeah, you would do it like you know, you do sit ups in the morning, do your jaw, do sit ups, work your jaw muscles, do your chin ups, do your push ups, do your calistenics, whatever you do, and also do your jaw and there's there after what's that No, a ball gag. It's the opposite because it's like to hide how he's trying to hide how jack his jaws. Everybody's gonna think he's been messing with that ball. Funny thing, the desire

for a square jaw. But it's it. Uh. They believe it really has to do with people not eating tough meat anymore, because you know, primarily are diets at one point in time where when we were hunting gatherers, if you were successful, your diet was meat. If you were unsuccessful, your diet was bullshit. You know, like you just were just surviving on you know, whatever little berries and ship

you could eat, and you didn't have strong jaw muscles. Um, totally, Yeah, I want to chew on like, did you get No, No, I got the thing I wanted to mention. Get one of them. Jaws are sized things, Like it's really cool. I forgot there's the thing I wanted to mention, which is the the coolest word. Then we gotta cut some

deer up and we got a long drive. Right. But don't remember me telling you the other day when I was on your show, I was telling me about the book I'm reading about the guy that traveled with the guy that was assigned to the black Feet by the Hudson Bay Company. Uh, I'm probably gonna hit people with a million tidbits. It's out of this book. It's fascinating. The word their word for a moose, which is somewhat

of a rarity in their area. Their word for a moose six s so six So I'm not pronouncing it right, I'm sure sixty so phonetic um. Black going out of sight. Mm hmm. That's so poetic, like a big black rump going outside, vanishes into the willow, black going out of sight. She is so good, man. I heard a word. There's a there's a native word. I don't I don't even know what tribe. There's a Native American word they called the bitter Root. So they were west of the bitter Roots.

So they were in the Pacific drainage, the Continental the Continental divide. The other side of that was the land or like the place beyond which there are no salmon. Ah. Yeah, you have the place of salmon and place. It's like, it's all you need to know. Did you got me into I went on to kick a couple of years back of like multiple books on Native Americans. Um, because I read uh Empire the Summer Moon, and I told

you about it, and you're like, that's good. But you're at this and then you turn me on to Sun of the Morning Star. Oh my god. This books are so heavy. And when you read those books and then um Black Elk Speaks is another great one. You read those books and you just imagine the hard scrabble life, the difficulty those people faced, the horrors, the hardships. It's just it's amazing how that wasn't that long ago. But how soft we are now. We are so different, We're

we're almost complete. If you Sam Bankman freed and then imagine him surviving on the planes with the comanches that he's might well, we can't fig Basically, Almita was moving and he's on amphetamines, and he weighs eight pounds. He's basically made out of the same texture of whatever his tissue is, like a jelly donuts. If you boil a moose joint, if you and then grab a handful of the sun comes off, that's a perfect that's a perfect disagreeation.

He's mush um and his jaws non existent. I mean right, like, that's that's what a human is like. One of the most until this Ponzi scheme fell apart, one of the most successful humans amongst us, right, and number two donor to the Democratic Party like that, that's a that's a hume, a thirty year old, robust in his prime, male human being. Of there's a lot of there's a lot of candidates thinking like, I'm not gonna be getting that check again. Yeah,

that's a wrap. We're gonna have to fund ourselves through honest living. It's it's but it's it's amazing how quickly the world has changed and how quickly life has changed, and that what we're doing, you know, with this, I mean, we're doing a modern version of hunter gatherer. Right. The modern version is so much easier, like what I was saying, like about bow hunting, that it's rifle hunting is more effective.

It's probably more ethical in that there's less of a likelihood of injury an animal, particularly if you're in a closer distance and you're proficient. It's easier to achieve proficiency, I think, although still very difficult to make no mistake about. And I think also let me just say this that rifle hunting on public land is probably more difficulty, more difficult than doing the kind of bow hunting that I enjoy, because bow hunting on private land you have more opportunities.

These are more um, really wild animals in the sense that they're not pressured and they're not accustomed to being chased by human beings because there's much less of them, much different public land. There's a thing. I mean, I admire the people that are very successful in public land, and I admire that attitude that like, hey, you know, I got this done on public land. What bothers me is these animals are unnaturally pressured by swarms of people who go out there at a specific time of the year.

I'm like, is that normal? Is that? Like they're not They're they're wild, right, but they're wild in this very strange sense where they're just constantly being fun with by people and they don't bugle anymore, and they kind of they're like kind of hiding. And it's just a totally different experience than if you were like Lewis and Clark and you were making a way across the country and you encountered like a herd of elk. I what I would give to be around back then, just to see

what it was like. What was it like before there were cities, before there was you know, any sort of wildlife management, Just what was it, like I mean, and again not that long ago, just a few hundred years ago. Uh, there's a couple of great books to understand that Osborne Russell's Journal, Journal of a trapp or whatever. Where the hell Osborne Russell's Journal, which is a lot of times there was a lot to eat and a lot of times. Ain't shitty that there's a book Land of Feast and Famine.

Um like in the es living off land in Canada. It's like sometimes you can't there's so much you can't even process at all in a lot of times screwed. Well. That's also why a lot of those planes Indians they would find these massive herds of buffalo. It's like, look, gos, fuck stay and put where they go we go. Let's

just keep moving and and fall behind. But what we're doing with this modern version of hunting and gathering is uh again what I said about like opening up that door in your brain, it is beyond It's the most satisfying way to acquire protein and to get meat and to feed your family. It's the best food that I've ever eaten, certainly in terms of nutrition, but even in terms of like taste. I absolutely prefer it to everything else, and you know, you and you bringing me into that

has completely changed my life. And it's been ten years now, um since that first hunt that we went on, you know that was that was ten years ago this year and it changed every it was like ten years ago two months ago. Well, you and you introduced me to the idea of doing a podcast, so we're even yeah, well I'm glad you do because I like listening to it.

But um yeah, again, it's like I'm very well, I'm very aware of even though uh compared to like a Sam Bank from mac bankman Freed, I'm like a completely different kind of man. But compared to the people that actually made their way across this country and people that, like whether it's the plains, Indians or the settlers, people that we're trying to hunt and gather in a time where you didn't have on X maps, you didn't have you know, you didn't have GPS tracking and both sites

that ranged for you. And you know, it's what it's it's just amazing how far things have changed and how much things have changed. And I don't know if it's for the better or for the worst, but I know that for my life, if I can. The more I can introduce of being embedded into actual wild nature, the

better I feel. Yeah, I don't think, and I've never thought that I'm approximating a a actual hunter gather experience as lived by hunter gatherers that were pre market environment like like like self like people that were in a

self contained economy. However, it's like I do an activity, I engage in an activity, and I gauge in a dietary practice that has overlap, and my understanding of what I'm doing is very heavily is very heavily influenced by or enhanced by an understanding of how people did it. But I don't. I don't equate them. You know, I could read all day about um ancestral hunter gathers like and and there, and I'll learn things that that make my experience better. But I'm not don't. I'm not learning

tips and tricks. I'm learning that a way to think about a moose, okay, or it's just it's like a way to think about a movies like are the word moves? I don't know what that means m O O s E. Like I don't know to think about the experience of of a word that means black going out of sight. I'm like, fun, that's good, you know, it's just it's it's just it enhances like that bit of knowledge. I'll never live as the person that had that language. I'll

never know what language meant to them. I'll never know what they felt when they saw a moose, But like that enhances my experience. But one thing that you are doing is you are letting more po bowle become aware of the benefits of eating that kind of food and living that kind of life and experiencing hunting in a modern context, and that that's it's it's fascinating to see that there has been a resurgence in hunting over the last few years. It's it's quite a bit of a resurgence.

And I think there was also a resurgence during the pandemic that was a lot of people recognizing, like, hey, this whole supply chain thing and this is not as robust as I thought, This is not a stable as I thought. Maybe be a good idea to at least have some understanding of how to acquire food in the wild. But I'm I'm happy that there are so many people

that are experiencing that. But for the people that are doing it, and they're doing it on public land, they're also realizing, well, boy, this is uh really ramped up the amount of people that are interested in doing this, and it's made it this thing that you enjoy doing so much more popular, and that means there's much more pressure. That means so this pros and cons to it, changing practices everything. Yeah, but my my take on that is like,

I want more people to know about it. Is it going to cause problems, Yes, but it's gonna cause a lot less problems than if they take it away. And if less people do it, the more likely that it gets taken away, that the probability of that becomes higher and higher. And that that scares a ship out of me, because I've had conversations with educated, intelligent people and they were like, no one needs to hunt today, and and

I'm like, you don't. You really have no idea what you're saying, And you have no idea where this this train of thought goes, and you you have no idea why it would be satisfying to those people. And I guarantee you if you went and you experienced it, if you're a meat eater and you say this this is a foolish notion that no one needs to hunt today. No one needs to hunt. Your right, you can go to the grocery store. But to say no one needs to hunt, like you should stop. You don't know what

you're talking about. Yeah, i'd even argue that man like needs, I don't. I guess needs is a weird word. Yeah, it is hard because but they say it like you shouldn't do it. It will never happen in my lifetime. I sure should hope it don't. And I don't even

know when I would hit the threshold. But if I had to, um if I lost faith, and how the regulatory structure if I lost faith, and how the regulatory structure is laid out like right now in the United States of America, across all fifty state game and fish agencies, a couple of plates like California. I'm beginning to have questions about Washington State. I'm beginning to have questions about But when I look at Jere, I'm like, I'm just I'm on board with wildlife management. I'm an advocate of it.

The models we have UM as long as you're like, we want to have sustainable populations of wild game that can support limited harvest and we're gonna help and regulate. Are are citizens who want to participate in that harvest? Like, great if you do that, and you say that there's no uh, there's no elk tags this year. Elk tags are lower this year, and I can see that why that's the case, and like numbers are down and here's the factors. I'm okay, cool, totally on board, as long

as it's managed by wildlife biologists. You're letting people vote on this stuff. That's what gets crazy. And that's what happened in Vancouver when they got rid of the grizzly hunt. You're letting people vote on it. They have zero experience with grizzlies, and they're not wildlife biologists. They don't know what they're voting on. They just don't want bears to die.

So they're like, yeah, let's stop bears from dying. And so they vote on the idea that a person who's uninformed, who just happens to be a voting age can change wildlife management practices. That's insane and that should be separate. You should not be able to vote for that. You should be able to vote for if you think that the wildlife biologists are doing a bad job, and the

the organization is doing a bad job. You should vote for politicians that want to hire better people and do a better job and fit and fix it and make it more more science based. But there's a lot of places where they're acting entirely on the whim of the public that are loathsomely uninformed. Yeah, I would like I hope it doesn't happen. I don't think it will happen in my lifetime. But I could picture becoming like I could picture rather than quit hunting, I to become a

vigilante hunter, like the punisher. No, Like like an Elks call in your shirt. No, like the people that continued to drink during prohibition. If I was like, this is you know, it's misguided, it's a mistake, it's not coming from the right place, I guess I'm gonna be the kind of person that that made wine in their own bathtub during the prohibition. Yeah, that's when we vote in Ted Digit for president. That's when we go listen. Recruitment.

That's why recruitment is so important. Like, right now, what you're doing is fantastic. Well, I mean hunters too, right, But what you're doing. Jesse's fantastic because you actually teach people. Now the best thing, man, the best thing is that is that you're never like it's never like you're not gonna if if we go by like sort of like a very rough understanding of democracy where it's like fIF right, it's not that it's not that you need hunters to

win legislative battles. You need that because that's it's not going to be like all the hunters versus everybody else, because even in the best case scenario, you're gonna lose eight. It's the people that don't hunt. What do they think

about it? Right? Well, a lot of people that that might hunt, especially in in this state in particular, they might go hunt once, but then you've they've opened the door and they've gone into the room that you were talking about, and then now they see that, and then they tell other people, and it's like that's how that they're less likely to bone you on the referendum. That's like, wait a minute, you know what, I used to think that hunting was on are unnecessary, But then I know

someone that went and did it had the opportunity. They never would have had that opportunity before, and then that's how you're going to change the minds. I think it's just too I mean, because it's just education. Yeah, Like I've I've served a lot of bear meat to a lot of people that will never hunt a bear. They'll

never hunt anything. I like to think I like to hope that they're sitting there and they go down to the vote or they're filling out their ship at their kitchen table, and they get to some part about well, it would you know, ban the ability to hunt bears, and you're looking at some shit about whether or not you should vote for some judge you never heard of before,

and like how you feel about the millages increase? You know, you don't have any kids in school, and you're like, I feel like I should say yeah, but I don't have any kids in school. And then you get down to the one about some ship about band and bear hunting. I like to think they'd go like if I canna put down though, well, I think it's interesting with putting in New Jersey. You know, they brought it back. They brought it back. That guy ran on the premise, that's

part of what he was running on. I'm the band the bear hunt that was part of his platform better education. Uh, no bear hunt, but the human human bearing interactions went up two hundred percent. They just extended the season good. I was gunning for that guy and he was one. Like I was like, if I could, if I could get one, if I could make one politician be voted out of office. I had it in my head that was gonna be that murder. That is the one of

the most foolish things that governor has ever done. Because there's are there more black bears per capita in New Jersey than anywhere else in the state in the States,

I'm not sure about that. I think that's true. And it was, and they totally screwed with their bear hunters, and they make the bear hunters go and check their bears at public places so that people would freak out, so you could make a media spectacle like when you go to check a bear like Montana for instance, Right, well, you check a sheep in Alaska, check a bear in Montana. You go to fishing game, you go inside, you notify

someone that you have a bear to check. They have you drive around back, you go into the structure or garage, whatever the hell it is, and you privately conduct the investigation in New Jersey of like here ye hear ye, all bear hunters will be bringing their bears down to s X rest area, come on down and down. Yeah, they made it like a nightmare. God, so those people are mandatory checking. But they turned it into like a media spectacle and and like vict and and turned to

everybody into villains. Anyways, he's this, we we gotta end up. I know everybody's gotta go, but I'll end on this. Murphy's you had another politician ran on that bear stuff. He's had an our top politician who got busted maskless with a bunch of people in the restaurant. Yeah, see that video. The woman's got a camera on him. It's a great quote, Murphy, You're such a dick. That's funny.

And he's like hanging out with everybody with no mask and mean, while everybody else is supposed to be mask up, mask up. And I do not condone going up to people and like scramming a camera your face like it's bad, Like you don't do it. But I just thought that was a funny, like opening line of that. And I thought she was talking about the I thought she's talking about the bear hunt, but she was in fact talking about the she's talking about the masking. But they got it. Florida,

they had a bear hunt. Uh, it went way better than I expected. They had a quote. It's like, it's crazy they made a quota. They hit the quotter really fast. I would be like, oh, if you hit the quotter really fast, you must have a lot more bears then you thought. But then it wanted being bad. Did they hit the quota. It's like, we hit the quota fast. No more bear hunts ever, because everybody's astounded that they hit the quarter so fast. Yeah, I understand they killed

blank thousand bales a bear dying per second. Or that's all the dummies moving from New York to Florida because they want to save on taxes. Well, it's that, and it's also like the COVID regulations. There's a lot of people that were very upset or I'm I don't, I don't have I'm a I'm a big Florida fan, man, I don't. I would never hack on Florida, but I would hack on how they handle that damn bear hunt. Yeah, well, get to Santis on the podcast, bring that up to him.

Funny well, I told you that's my that's my life's goal. Funny, interesting that you brought that up. That's my life's goal. Uh, all right, guys, we gotta go. What time is it? Ye? Yeah, I gotta wrap. I gotta cut a couple of deer up. Thank you very much, Joe, thanks for having me, and thank you Jesse for all the great cooking. Dude, you're such a good chef and you're a good cook. Thanks. Man. Now I like that. That's that that is like, that's a great cook cooking for your friends. Man, Yeah, that's

curry less. Night was insane so good. The only thing I can do better than you is make a tone and the ducks that we went off on the duck earlier, the ducks you way better. Everything to me, And someday I can show you how to handle the beef to That's very kind. I a forciate al right, guys, Thanks