Ep. 382: The Making of MeatEater

Just go around the rumor, but say who you are and how many years you've been on the show, or again, any kind of rough estimate of how many episodes you've done? Rick Smith and I think I started work in two thousand and sixteen was the first episode, which was season maybe the end of season six, started season seven, and I don't I don't know how many total. Was your first one when we went to Mexico with Garrett? Yeah, the first one about night terrors for the first time.

That was my first one. Yeah. I had done Apex Predator with Remy Warren, a couple of episodes of that. Let's try out. They're skeptical of I don't know, skeptical, but we have we have to be intellect So he passed. I don't know. We could talk about just that trip for an hour and it would be funny. There should talk about Garrett's night tears. I was sharing the tent with him. Yeah, it was terrifying on the mountains and Cartel Country. No night tears. That was the thing. What

was the thing that you said that night? Avalanche? Avalanche? Yeah, I thought it was an avalanche. Woke up, grab war gear and screaming. It's like, dude, we're in Mexico. Yeah, tells us. Yeah, you guys can't give me snickers right before bed? No, sweet Lauren. Yeah. Uh. My first show was Washington ELK with you guys. Maybe eighteen, I'm guessing remember that one. Oh so your new relative newbie remember that? I mean four years? I guess, I don't know five

if I didn't doing something. But you've been filmed for a long time. You bet you filmed that show Mountain Man for a million years, ten years on Mountain Men. Then I was with Newberg Randy Newburg on on Your Own Adventures when he started. That was seven seasons. I think that we did and kept a couple of tolls in the beer business. Yeah, until just recently. No, Yeah, threw in the reins on the selling of beer. No longer going to sell, just gonna be, you know, the

regular peer pressure guy. I wanted to bring bloodies this morning, but nobody really was into it. So NK a bloody man, for sure. He's never filmed anything. I did work on mountain men though, Uh, Rich, Uh, I think I started in I remember your first trip, that's when you got the name Rich Pounder. Yea. Yeah. Although I was telling these guys, I feel like when I got in my thirties that I've kind of like phased out of that. You lost I kind of lost it. Yeah, I lost

a little edge. Uh So I liked you because you were a good walker and you and you were real enthusiastic about that soup can full of bacon grease here that mac in grease, man, We'd add that to house. It was great. I hadn't There was a lot of first for me on that trip. I hadn't, like really, I hadn't hiked off of a trail in the woods, hadn't pooped, never pooped outdoors, never never pooped outdoors before.

No first time. Yeah, that was a big moment. Uh. And then Land went on your suspenders, did you know? I no, I got. I got feel when you're wearing when you're wearing your suspenders, it's right, just a little my shoe hasn't happened here. Stories Yeah, yeah, what else do we do on that one? Hell of an intro to the woods? That trip? Yeah, wet ass snow, British Columbia. Yeah, bears, bears. Although you know, it's like we were on a grizzly hunt, but we didn't see that many grizzlies. We saw the

one like the first night. I think I'm remembering right, And then we saw one I should have got. I should have just in hindsight, it's the best opportunity we had. It was, Yeah, but there was like you didn't know if it was male or female or whatever. It was something. And then we saw one like way later. But you can't do that the ground check it. Yeah, that's right. That hunt is, that's a that hone is no more past. I think it might. I've been getting some intel. I

don't know. I shouldn't say that it's gonna come back in some form, some new form. I don't know if that's true. Yeah, can anyone listening understand that? I don't know if that's true. A lot of people writing and yeah, um, just a quick question when you like, how did you feel accepting that job, like going to Grizzly Hunt not having pooped out in the woods. Oh, I was so stoked.

I'd already done a lot of like filming in like pretty tough places and tough conditions, so I kind of like I was into the the tough stuff, so that wasn't scary. And I had seen some episodes and I had a buddy who had worked on this show on Meat Eater that brought me on and I was like, oh, yeah, I'd be down to work on it. And then yeah, but like pursuing Grizzly, like getting close to them on purpose was like not a deterrent. When I was that age,

I like, really wasn't that scary. Like now, I'd probably be a little more hesitant based on some of the experiences that we've had working on the show, But at that time, I was like pretty into getting into like some I just I just wasn't as worried. It's like you're kind of young and not really you don't know what to worry about yet. Yeah, it wasn't like, oh, Grizzly could maull my face off. I was like, oh, it's a bear, like whatever. We got guns and stuff. Well,

all right. But when I was younger, I didn't care if I lived or not. Yeah, I wasn't really thinking of mortality in the same way. It just was no, it's just you know, I know I had zero not zero. I just didn't matter if I stayed alive. Yeah, well, just before you had kids and Mary and yeah, I hadn't really like I don't have kids now, but I'm very happy in my life, so I calculate risk differently. Back then, I was like, oh whatever. Summer I got married.

Right before I got married was the first time I had a feeling of not wanting to of like really not wanting to die. And it was the last time I topped a big tree out, Oh your last arborist, the last time I talked. While I was just doing it for a neighbor up in Alaska, we topped a big sick of spruce out. I climbed up there and knocked top out, and I when that tree stopped going, I realized that something had changed and I didn't like it, and I was never gonna do it again. And I

think it was great. How old were you, Steve when I, I don't know, I got married, I don't know, somewhere around. Yeah, I think you can started thinking about it different then, you know, when you're younger, you're coming here and I don't think you're there yet, buddy, No, no I care if I look, I just don't. I don't worry about the next day as much as the present day. You know, Yeah, because I don't mean not like you're I don't mean like SUICIDALITES mean, you're not the thing in your head,

isn't boy? I better not die. That's gonna be horrible and everybody, um, which is something I think now about with my family. Yeah, yeah, you don't really think about it. Yeah. That was a good shoot though. That was a fun trip, especially because my wife, UM tells me what she's gonna do if I do die. What's she gonna do? She laid out the life plan and she made it just despicable to men, just to keep getting off the rails

in my death. It's so bad. He doesn't want to repeat it, but we talked about it a couple of episodes ago, like you die spear fishing. Here's what I'm going to do. At least I'm going to marry, so bear that in mind. It's gonna nothing but team sports or something. Yeah, he's really in the golf paint the house, Dan Vil, Broncos colors, Okay, dirt. I think two thousand fifteen as well was my first season, maybe two thousand fourteen,

little caveat. I put a door in the meat Eater office before I started filming with the old office and the ZPC West office. You were there as you were there as a contractor. No, I was there as me. I interviewed with Yanni and this guy Dan, and he said, how about putting that door? Yeah? I said, well, we don't really need us. Well, it's like, you know, I'm

around to work and uh. I had a background in photography and also building, and they're like, well, until we need someone in the field, can you put a door in the office. I was like, yeah, remember that. Didn't they meet your first Yeah, so Steve had yeah, yeah, yeah, my dad worked on wild within ye boat operation. Yeah, we had to run a boat and man it was we're having a lot of problems with the jet intake on this boat. You wouldn't try. It was the stupidest

weeds and stuff. Yeah, he had to strip down and get in the water. And this is November. He had to strip down under the boat to clean the intake out. Oh my god, dude. So that that that kind of cleared the way from me. Once I threw that name out there, I was like, if he's half as tough as as this old man. But then yeah, that was put that door and then uh got on a shoot just out of I guess fate. Yeah, you remember which one. He was your first one. He had the Turkey Hunt

Nappa with Joe and Briant. I was like, holy shit, man, this is this is fun. Did you get bad poison? Ivy No, But that was when Joanni had that like two months two months stin of it. I didn't get it that trip, but I think i've since then now. I think I'm like over sixty you've done. He's done a lot. How many total of the episodes? Oh god, o Yann? But not to not. I don't think Joanni was around before any guys were around. Oh ye's been o g baby yeah Fairbanks right. Oh, I don't know

what year. Yeah, was the first year we met. You were supposed to be having a ten year anniversary party, just you and I going. I don't know what we're gonna do, Go watch a movie or something good. I love that. We're also joined by Danny Bolton from Hawaii who happens to be in town and he's on some He's on a couple of the new episodes we have coming out, and we're gonna cover some other stuff that we're gonna get into the life of bad Country camera man.

And I think these guys are prepared to tell the thing they appreciate most about working on the show and the thing they like most about me. That's what the said. Yeah, my understanding is what's gonna happen here today? Chester? It is not here? So Chester is a divester. Did you guys hear about this? His boy had a baby a month early. Chester almost uh. I thought he's going to deliver the baby. It was just wham whoa baby month early. If anybody could do it, Chester could do Yeah, he couldn't.

Ta yesterday. Happy Papa right now? Yeah, they're happy. I mean they got a couple of little complications because the baby is born so early. But in the hospital. Are they at home? No, no, no, they get their hanging out in the baby. Yeah, he said, everything's good, just is just a little yeah, but there's no you know, they had to put him out some oxygen month early. That's kind of given aways. I hope. I'm not divulge you too much about Chester's personal life. But now he's

doing great. His wife's doing great, Danielle, He's gonna be a good Dad's good. They're good. No, they should be. If you had to apply to have a kid, I think that I would have approved the application. Oh yeah, Uh, that clears up for Chester. One problem is, I don't know if you guys know everybody here knows that Chester is opening for Trampled by Turtles in Atlanta. I'm going, dude, already bought tickets, okay. And there was a problem. There was a problem where if the if the birth didn't

happen right, he could have gotten in some trouble. But now he's way clear. Oh yeah, he's gonna because the baby was late, right, but now he's a okay, he'll have a month a couple of months old baby by the time he goes what's the date on ap oh, no days before Pearl is he written originals? Have you talked to him about his I'm talking about you know, all anybody does is tell him what he ought to do. Yeah, I haven't told what you ought to do late, at least I don't have an update. Every time I see

m I tell what he ought to do. I go on, what you ought to do? Something like that, and then I tell what right, and I like to contradict whatever I told him to do the last time. That sounds very familiar. I told him I was a new dad a few times ago. I told him, I said, I think you should play as Chester the molester and just embrace that situation, to embrace the molester hand and like build kind of like a career like that. You know

him so weird now that he's a dad. So yeah, we're having That's what he saved in my phone as so when I you know what you call on your vehicle that says it back to you, it makes me chuckle. At the time I'm changing out that, he's going, Oh man, I gotta go out. I might phil key pause so I can go out and change that. Oh it's right here on my phone. I'm gonna change that. That's horrible. Trampled by Turtles does have a new album out. Um so they've been uh you know, Dave Simon has been

on the show Chester's opening for them. Their new album comes out October, produced with and this is interesting Jeff Tweety from Wilco. That's a name, dude, nice makes me kind of want to hear that. Wilcome. I think they're there, like their album am and then their album being there. Damn, that's some good stuff. Good stuff d long time ago. Uh,

here's a funny story. The guy know who's a I've actually talked to him before because he's he's a Bobcat trapper and makes bobcat trapping equipment and he traps bobcats as a researcher people that are studying bobcats. He catches bobcats for that and he also traps bobcasts for the commercial markets. And he's a bobcat expert. He wrote me, no unrelated to Bobcats. His dad had a friend who's got the name that I wish I had. I might legally change it to this Donnie Mountain that years ago

his dad, so he wrote me this note. He texted me this note. Years ago, my dad had a friend, Donnie Mountain, most nervous wreck of a human you've ever been around in a violent temper. This is a great detail. He would light a cigarette while opening a gate for you while hunting, then he put it out to get back in the truck. He never killed anything all the

years we took him. Once my d Once my dad had a secretary friend make up a real official looking letter on photo copied Utah Game and Fish letterhead explaining the extensive work that goes into wildlife management and part of that utilizes hunters success, and that they respectfully asked that he not applied for a tag in the future because it takes away from other hunters opportunities that would

likely be more successful than him. He says, I'll never forget when he got it in the mail and came over just living talking about those assholes at Game Scardi Ego. After that man, another buddy of mine who's in the fur business at one time, referred to him on this podcast as Joe Beaver, which he said his wife likes quite a bit. He sent me these trail camp photos, so some guy he knows was watching this buck and he sent me these beautiful trail camp post. This is

giant white tail. And then there's a grip and grin of the dude's wife next to her car where she actually ran over and killed his target buck it driving at night. It's like the buck um. I was gonna tell a whole bunch about youth Dear Huh youth dear season. Yeah, you guys just got back hu great time, but the weather turned and I have never seen uh sloppyer gear

management in the wet and rain. Then I saw exhibited on this year's youth Dear hunt by the youth or by by the youth, mindless, overwhelmed, just no, no having a great time, just mindless gear management, all of them. It was rampant. It was particularly rampant in in my tent because I was in my tent paying attention to what was going on in there, just coated in mud. I guess I'll just go like roll around on the

sleeping bags in my rainware. Just just disaster. But all I had at the time of a lot like it doesn't it's it doesn't. They don't. They're not at a point yet where that stuff occurs to him. When you were a kid, were you fastidious about all that stuff?

The type of the kid too, because I've got to And we camped together in the same tent this weekend and I had I gave him a big like how to be a good camper speech before we started, And at some point we're like, where's Mabel And it's like, Oh, she's in the tent, cleaning up her stuff her room

at home. It's tidy and is not so much and so yeah, it has an explosion of gear in the in the tent, but Mabel's stuff was tidy, So I would say, go, I'd be like, go into the entrance of the tent, don't stop on anything, take off all of your rain wear, take off your rubber boots. Then you're good to then enter the tent area just they can't. Was it a floorless tant or yah, wonderful of your I gotta take three sleeping bags, like I take three

sleeping bags on to get them cleaned out. Yeah, I'm gonna just take him down and have someone get to try to clean them up. Dude, one of your buddies like coerce the kids, like, hey, you should you should be as dirty as you can at camp with your Dad, Did you do that? Danny? Danny is with us. Oh yeah, I just told him, like, Steve's gonna love it if you just roll right in this tan, just glad. Just

a couple of somersaults in there, a little gymnastics. But yeah, Jimmy boy was like there's a few spots where he was just crawling up the stuff hands and knees and just coated it or going down this stuff too, just sliding on his butt. You know those hand boat pumps, yeah, Bilge pumps. Yeah. Yeah. We got back from getting Jimmy's

bucking the rain and I had Danny. I had him go out on a rock in the river and I had Danny take that Bilge pump flush it, and I had him staying at rock and I hosed him down with the Bilge poem. Yeah, that was just pumping in. Steve just hosting the kids, just boots everything, hands, try to get him cleaned upside out there is rough. Oh man, I'll tell one quick story. Uh, we were hunting in

the rain and we're going into the wind. It was beautiful and we're in the great area and I was like, man, I just feel like we're gonna get a buck we're gonna get a buck and come around a corner. And I just peek around a corner. I see, Uh, it was a little forky And I didn't even look at him that long. But he doesn't seem to be aware of us, but he's kind of looking in our direction. Did you ever look at him through knocks? Yeah? Was he looking down the hill and he was kind of

looking off to the side of us. Yeah, and I and so I got Jimmy, I'll set up and he shoots the buck, and uh, I think that buck was watching a coyote because when he shoots, a kyote comes squirting out from probably thirty forty yards below that buck. And I think that Kyle was caused and just the right amount of distraction where he didn't catch a snake in around the corner. It worked out perfect. Oh, we had such a good time. We found um. Last year,

we had found a fossilized clam bed. But I didn't think you were allowed to take I didn't think off uh blm Land. I didn't think you're allowed to collect fossilized clams. But it turns out you can collect in in quote, in reasonable quantities. You can collect fossilized mollusks and we found a rock it was about fifty pounds. My daughter wanted we were a couple miles and my daughter wanted me to call it out for it was just a fifty pound rock of fossilized clams and we

want to find smaller ones. We found, uh, trilobites. I brought a big block about the size of a big platter. That's just a fossilized clam bed. It's just fossil clampossils and the little shells too. Yeah, you still see the shells in there on the on the shore line or up on the hills. Yeah. Yeah, I looked like at it. You could see the layers up above and it kind of just fallen off. And there was the little muscles too, right, the little shells. We found a skeleton that hadn't fossilized,

but it was set in rock. What kind of skeleton. I'm sure it was a bison. We we didn't hunt the youth season, but my youth hunted with me. We went out for Montana's rifle opener, but we were hunting antelope. Prong horn. Keep trying to say a prong horn, but it's so hard. I totally switched. What's the switch for christ? Technically it's a prong horn. I resist that ship normally, but I totally switched. You call a prong horn now one of the I don't call it speed goats, speed goat,

speed goat. I never heard that. What about Loper, it's it's meant to be like you're super like in the loop. One of the cool kids a shortening of Antelope. But we had we had some milestones. Uh well, they were good campers. But there's kind of three major milestones. One was that iina, uh, spend a little time skinning, and she's not like I'm not gonna be like, go ahead and skin that deer out, like that's not gonna happen. But she's showing interest and she's like working at it,

which was good to see. But then two, they're driving around the canyam, so you can just be like, after you shoot a couple of anilope, like, hey, go get to canam and drive it back up here, and they can. They can do that, so it sort of takes like a step of work out. Then I don't know how to rate these. One or the two is number one and the other ones in the number two spive milestones

for the weekend. But they're opening gates. Yes, they both have like the strength and know how to like and if it's too much for one, then the other one can pitch in. They can use They were able to get through all of the gates that we had to work over the weekend. Yes, they smoking a cigarette. Well that's funny because my twelve year old it just can't figure it out. I can't do it. You know what.

These gates, although they're old and crusty, they have the uh like the instead of just having a piece of wire around the top, they've got that latch deal. What do you call those? Yeah, I don't know, but you know I'm talking about you probably buy it murder exactly. But lastly, I was hanging in camp and they were

sort of directing the conversation. My brother in law are just kind of like kicking back, you know, having some beers, and I just realized there was a moment when I'm like, you know what, I'm just like listening and enjoying the conversation and I'm not the one having to be like, So, what was the most exciting part of the hunt today for you girls? You know, they were just sort of doing that was like, this is very fun. Yeah, it's a nice moment. My my daughter something switched in her um.

She's like very now, very impatient to be old enough to deer hunting next year, and has like wants her own Buyos, wants her own buy no harness, wants her own backpack. She's fired up. So that's where my focus is gonna be next. So that brought up another milestone. Sorry, we're just killing it this weekend. The buy those things, I just sort of not even thinking it was like, oh, throwing a couple of sets of Buyos into the gearbag,

and then I offered him up. Oh yeah, we would like to carry by those two different times, both in the same evening, but we're I'm like driving out. They're kind of like already glass the field and like it ain't nothing here, let's keep moving. And my girls there like between me and Cameron in the canamn, like jabbing each other and fighting and just being pains in general, pains in the ass. I'm like, look around and find

some prong horn. That's what we're doing, you know, And five seconds doesn't go buying and it's like, oh, there's a herd that look, I don't see one. Like they're right there. I'm like, I don't see him. She's like, seriously right there, Glass. I'm like, oh, yeah, no ship, you know. Unfortunately, we try to pull the quick U turn and then just get behind the little ridge. But man, three weeks in the prong Horn season they take that ship anymore. But yeah, then later we're like, we try to.

We didn't know that they busted, so we put the big stock on them. Thirty minutes later, we've cleared the place out. That hurts gone and we're just moving down the ridge. I've kind of like dropped my edge and you know, on the ridge top now it's getting ready ahead to the canam again and uh maybels like they're still in the field. There's some right there and I look over. I'm like, where they're not. It's like, no, they're right there. They're bedded. Like what I'm looking looking.

She's like, I'm like where She points Glass. I'm like, oh yeah, look at that. It was getting low light and I don't know if my eyes are just going a little bit. And when those you forget too and you're so used to looking at elk were times is what I've been hunting the last month. And then you go to an animal that's like a sixth of the size and then they bed down. I mean it's like looking at a mouse out in a alf alfa field, you know. But so anyways, you had another milestone and

I'm like, I don't even have to glass anymore. I just can hang out and wait for them to be like there they are. Uh, you should introduce them to a range find or that. Oh, my kids will spend hours range ranging everything everything. It's pretty fun. And my daughter is not like a good great glass yet because a lot of times I look and I think of like the best I can tell you must be looking at her knee, or she's got him aimed up in the sky. She doesn't really, She just sort of it's fatalistic.

She just looks through whatever they happen to be aimed at. She hasn't figured out that you can kind of point them around where you want to be. She's sort of like, I guess, you know, I'll look there and take my lumps. You know. My girl's favorite is after about five minutes of regular glassing, they flip them backwards. Everything gets really far away. Oh god, you know what, We're talking a lot about how how much a human scroll you can handle? This is this this guy wrote in No, that's a

great story. He says, there was a podcast episode a while back where y'all were questioning how much weight the human scroll. He calls it a scroll I like that could take before tearing home. He says, I will tell you in confidence. Does that mean I shouldn't tell No? I think he's The way I'm reading that is he's saying that I'm telling you this confidently, like this story, this happened if I said to you, but that's not I'm not I'm not gonna say his name, so I

don't portray his trust. But if I said to you or you know what I you just think he's using it that way. But is this like a rope testing where they test like the breaking strength like roper. We had a guy send this. He had this scientific analysis and even a video, like an engineering video of what happens to your scroll if it's pulled tent sile strength not Garrett. Oh, here's a joke for you. Do you hear about Do you hear about the guy? Do you

hear about the guy that put glitter all over scrolled him. Yeah, it's pretty nuts. So he goes on to say, I will tell you. So he goes on to say, I will tell you in confidence that when my dad was younger, he worked as a framer dirts tracking and fell off a scaffold. It was caught on a picket fence by his testies. When he came to he was hanging upside down like the squirrels that I often see on Steve's

Instagram page. Or that raccoon right was raccoons. He was able to get them surgically reattached and went on to have four of the most hunting is fishing his son's. He told me he had almost completely forgotten about it until he got a vast sectomy and cried out loud when they snipped the scar. Tissue are supposed to be sedated when you have a best sector. Did I ever tell you my vast activy story? Nod you curl your hair, go umbe away. We're talking. We're talking on I can

vouch for that. Your wide away. The numbing too. Sometimes it didn't work for me. I felt a lot of it. I'll tell it real quick, dark, I gotta say this too, because Dark Colburn said that he he said it felt like someone was like start trying to start a lawnmower, like a pull start. He didn't tell me that confidence. One more thing. Now we're gonna get Okay, I tell this quick story about my tell cram my quick vast

acty story. So I've all I've long suffered from a thing in my my left side of my scroll, where I have a thing called a very castell. It's like this little nerve ball humid days man, So I never wore I don't wear boxers, so that's always bugged me. Now I go down to get my vast actomy and you're laying there and you're just shooting the breeze and they numb me up and I don't even know he started yet. And he's got a side done. Huh okay, I'm saying, so what's going on? Already did one side?

What are you guys talking about? Like Polygy got it? Yeah? And my Dennis hunts too, So he does a side and he's like, I'm not work three or four minutes and he's already done, and I can't even tell that he's gotten going yet. And we're talking, talking talking and priests. Do I realize a long time has gone by and he's still said so if he got one half done that fast, why have we been talking for twenty five minutes? And I lift my head up and look, it's just

blood everywhere. I said, nerves, it's blood vessels, that very that that little growth thing in my sack. He was having a hard time digging the pipe he's trying to find. He's having a hard time digging it out of that blood vessel sack. Oh, bleeding all over the place at one point, make here, make a quick video of this. You make a quick video, like literally, I want to act out. We'll put it on Instagram. What are you wearing like? Uh, you're wearing like a medical thing? Right? Yeah,

what are you wearing like? Are you talking about like a toilet seat cover over your area? Right? You just make it from the waist down. If I remember, the guy has like the helper dude who I kept saying yes, sir, no, sir. So he thought I'll remember he thought I was in the military. He's like, that's not part of the story. So I look up, okay, and there's just blood everywhere, and he's getting frustrated, and at one point he goes

like this, I'm gonna demonstrate what he does. So he's down there having surgery on might scrolled him and he goes like this. He's standing over me. My computer is my sack, and he does this. This is not what you want to see someone do. He goes it, goes back to work. I was the conversation after he I don't know, I've never done a vast sector me. I don't know how he will is uh unsure that he'd got the right hose. What would happen if you got the wrong hose? Well, either way. Afterward, this is the

bad part after me. Afterward, you gotta keep supplying specimens. See feels effective. But nowadays you don't need to go down there and do it, you know, do the whole thing in the bathroom there. Maybe some people still do that. When you're seeing a lot of your own blood, like you're used to seeing blood, hands are like, yeah, I was gonna ask if you had some kind of your own Like you're not feeling anything, but you're seeing stuff that should be inside of a body, and you're was it.

I don't like, I don't like. I don't mind seeing my own bloods. But I don't like people. I don't like any kind of needles and hoses and stuff getting installed in me. I was told someone I want sold a doctor. I could cut your arm off and eat it and it wouldn't bother me. But you putting in my arm is really upsetting to me. Did that doctor take it? As you know? I was just trying to explain how much I don't like. But I got over that. Eventually got over. Oh one last thing. Never get to

what we're here to talk about. I we've gotten a lot of letters from biblical scholars. I don't even know how to explain this. Someone mentioned something about a good Samaritan, okay, and I had said, my understanding in the Good Book is that Samaritans were um bad people. Okay. So the fact that the fact that a Samaritan, when you say to someone, oh, you're a good Samaritan, you're basically saying so surprising that a person as bad as you must

be as a Samaritan, did that. It's not like, if you're a good Samaritan, be like you're an unlike I had always been told, you're an unlikely candidate to do a good deed. That's why it's noteworthy, because people that you'd expect to do a good deed, I don't know what the hell. That priest comes by, he does do anything. That guy comes by, they won't do anything. And then, of all people, a Samaritan, right, it would be like saying the good bad person. Well, we got letters from

Biblical scholars. I don't know if I want to get into it, but I'm gonna do it. Yeah, biblicals this gets rich. It's complicated. I'm never gonna say a good Samaritan ever. Again. I don't say it, but anytime someone does say, I'm just gonna shut up. Biblical Samaritans were people of mixed Jewish descendency. Following the split of Israel in the Old Testament, Israel aka the Northern Kingdom was

taken into captivity by the Assyrians. While they're bloodlines mixed between Assyrians and Jews, the people of Judah a ka the Southern Kingdom, were taken captive by the Babylonians. Following their subsequent return to Jerusalem, they declared their Jewish purity by bloodline and lineage. Many of the Northern Kingdom Jews living north of Jerusalem in an area known as Samaria could no longer do this. They now had mixed ancestry between themselves as Jews and Assyrians, who took them over.

These partial Jews became known as Samaritans and were utterly despised razed by the pure bloods. No self respecting Jew of the time would deign to socialize with, visit with, or even help an ailing Samaritan, as they were considered to be all but dogs. This is someone else writing in I'll point out context is important on this story. This Chris Gil writing in No, this is a stranger writing in who I will not divulge their uh you take it up with them, But I'm not gonna tell

you who they are. I'm just this is someone explaining this stuff. They're all but dogs and doing someone make them ceremonial and ceremonially unclean. That said, the priests and Levite who first passed the injured man in the parable of the good Samaritan would not even touch their own countrymen, also out of fear of being made unclean, so self loathing. While the people of Samaria were of mixed descent and

also may have practiced some pagan forms of worship. There is nothing really in scripture to indicate that they were bad people, as I me Steve indicated. While there may be other reputable documentation available outside of the Bible to support this, the fact in and of itself has nothing to do with the idea of being a good Samaritan. The point was a man considered by the culture to be less than human, crossed geopolitical lines to help a man who was in need and being despised by his

own countrymen. He did something that none of the three Jews the injured man included would have done for him. Jesus point in the story all people are our neighbors, whether they're socially acceptable or not, and whether they're covered in human waste or not. That's a referral to the episode we did about the Great House Rescue. Thanks for your time. Another guy that wrote and explained that a that a scholar was trying to get Jesus in a tight spot when he told the parable and he said, Okay,

who are our neighbors? And you wanted him to try to draw some hard lines about who the Jews should be friendly with, and and as he liked to do, he answered with the story Jesus, Jesus. That's when he told the parable. Someone's like, so, who are neighbors? Mr? Smart guy, And he said, well, let's talk about that for a man, and he told the story of the good Samaritan being like, that's your neighbor at least suspecting one. Yeah. Lesson of tolerance had the thought I feel like and

the thought, all right, let's get into it. So right now, is it you that right now? Yeah? Like season eleven is where episode one is out. I've explained a thing about show business before where we license our show out. But right now you can go watch, Um, you can watch for free. I'll point out you can go to the meater dot com and watch for free. That's the first place to go see the new episodes that make

up are season eleven. It's available now. We're gonna put up one a week and one is available right now. Episode one uh Hunting Sickle Blacktail Deer in Southeast Alaska with Evan Hayford, who has been on the show a couple of times from Black Rifle Coffee Company. Was I've been on I think at least two of those hunts, maybe three. They've been extremely difficult. Did you guys, crack the puzzle all this time, crack the code. We got

a deer. But no, I'm no, I'm no. I know less about it now than really, well, you're not in the alpine. I know less about hunting the rainforest now than I ever did. You did have a breakthrough with rattling, though, Oh can you bleep that? Sorry? Just make over what he said? Does that spoiler? No, it's not a spoiler. Oh no, we show it. What am I saying? Yeah? It's I mean there was a question of if rattling would bring in I'll just come out and saying yeah,

someone will correct me. I'm sure pioneered. I believe that people will write in and being like you have to do right. I believe I'm the first person to ever rattle in a stick of blacktail deer. There. I just said it. Oh, I witnessed it. I don't know if you're the first, but he did it. I am first. Why wouldn't it work though, because as they just I don't know, because they're just goofy, little, shy little they don't come in just like they're not. They don't socialize,

they're just shy. All you hear about the people that have the epic hunts is like, oh, we just got out of the truck and blew on the call and three of them came running. I don't mean, okay, they come to call. I don't know why not. I don't know why. In my head, not in Yanni's in my head. I just don't think of them as I don't think of the boxes like social in that way and all

fired up in that they're like smashing up another. But when you're calling them, you're usually calling him using distress calls and fawn bleats and dough noises, and you're like you're generating some excitement from does that come in and carry bucks with him? I just don't think of bucks running out of the brush because there's a ratlin noise. Yeah, they've got little teen little antlers. It's just like but obviously they do get out. I don't know, I don't

know why I thought that, but it works. Apparently. Yanni lays in better Night. I think, don't know how good rattling. Well, that's the thing. It might be the misconception, and it might be the thing that is going to like turn a lot of would be successes into real successes. Might be a fluke. I mean he he was running. He was coming in like responding to it. He was coming. Yeah, there you go. He was curious. Ninth hour two or ten or twelfth whatever they say. Love's coming hard. Really

easy place to work, that miserable, especially with electronics. Okay, you guys are tasked with sharing your favorite story ever from working on the show. It's my understanding favorite story. By that, I mean like something that we're like, uh, like something I said that really stuck with you changed changed course. What was the quote you said earlier about chastity of intelligence or something like that? Was theticism is the chastity of the intellect? There you go. There's a

lot of quotes like that. I didn't call you guys something once that I had you later, I told you never to talk about it because it could give me a lot of trouble. Bitch bitches, bitches a little bitches. Yeah that. But what's great about that is that just recently came about. We're working on the shows for years. That was like, yeah, it was like a twenty nineteen or twenty official. The next day, I know, I called Annie, I texted I was like, any I don't know if

you're an HR person. I need to talk to you. But well, what's great is we've made it through years of doing the show and then the moniker comes out. It's like I can see right off the bat being like you know what you're you know, well, there's been something, there's iterations of, like the crew has changed over the course of time that I think we've all been working on it. Yanni was on it for like most of I think still you're probably on it longer than anybody.

Never never became a bit. I want to know. I'm gonna I'm gonna point this question at you. Is it bitch woke? Now? Oh? You don't say no, you don't. It's kind of come back around it like a few years ago fashion. I think they're claiming people are taking it back, like bitch is fine, Oh it is fine again. I think so, I think that someone's a sensibility call me. If it's sensibilities that someone just wants to see you bleed,

they're going to get mad about it. Yeah, but like, what what use of the word bitch, like bitch please, or like calling someone a bit? That's what I think is that anymore people don't really call females. But we have a funny story about this from the other day we do. We're doing our cookbook photo shoot and two women that we were with are driving too fast down this road and an old man comes out and yells

at him. And then they then spent the next thirty minutes trying to figure out did he say slow down a bit, as one of them thought, or did he say slow down a little bit? Very different said that said, what answer your question? I guess I can't keep up. I don't I have no idea, but I just I find it interesting that the the interpretation of a word, or like how someone perceives it when called it or when they hear it, just changes with like the weather. It's just it's silly to me. But I said, now

you're just weak, the bitchiest of bitches. I'm guessing you didn't want to hike anymore. It was probably something practical and sable. The reason the whole you know that we're there. Wait, you want to focus on something in important? Yeah, you don't want to go on a midnight death march back to camp. I'll set up. But saying I view the relationship, I view that there's there's a push and pull. Right, Um, you guys want your desire to film things sometimes prevents

there being anything to film. Yes, you're not. You're not incorrect on that, and so I'm like, do it my way and I'll show you something cool to film. But that's an infliction that I think we have on everything that we work on. That's something that I at least I'm always like, oh, we gotta do it this way. And then it's like, my wife's a director too, and

we get into a healthy conversation. It's about things. Yeah, that's why your wife, even though she's never shot a television show, she or a hunting show, she's still probably be like, oh yeah, those fucking cameras. No. She if I like tell a story and it's like, oh this is crazy, she like will usually side not with me because she knows that. It's like because if you're not getting the story, if you're only getting the images, and

it's like you don't have this. This is something that any documentary film is going to run into the problem of filming. It is preventing the thing you're doing. Hunting just is more so you add all these people to the woods, you're trying to be stealthy. It's like incompatible. But I've been talking about this a lot lately, like that Meat Eater is actually the like the only true Verte show that I work on now. Verte is like you as a camera person, are capturing events as they

are unfolding in front of you. It's like just very honest on the fly on the wall. Yeah, it's like you're just in French term that was related to just capturing truth. Yeah, but I think we keep that in mind to not prevent the success. Very like that's why it's fun to work on this show because it's like nobody does that, and it's always like, oh, we gotta set up and we're going to this place and we're gonna light it and we're gonna do this, and it's

just like okay. But there's a thing like people want to see Steve's face, but we're constantly hiking behind him. We see his ass the whole time, and as much as you the authenticity of the moment is to see him from behind, because how would a camera guy be out in front of him needs to see your face. It's just like it's what people, It's just one of those things. And so we have to find those moments where Steve lets us run ahead. Dude, I've been yelled

at for that. And so you can decide to air on the side of getting less coverage and not having Steve yelled at you, or pick pick your moment. But sometimes you pick your moment and it's not the moment. But every year we get emails from guy being like, you don't have that, you don't have you don't have this, And I'm like, guys, the main editor there's edited over a hundred episodes of the show, and yeah, if you guys don't get the coverage from the front, you will

get yelled at him. Yeah to two. And and when an editor is going through our footage often I'm sure they're like, what the funk were these guys are doing out there, because it just seems like they didn't do this and they didn't do that, you know, like all the basic things that you do and you know, documentary film, but we're just under a different constraint, even just just the walking, Like it's easy to look at something and be like that doesn't look that hard or whatever, Like

most of Alaska just you the walking and filming at the same time. It's just like an incompatible situation. You know, it's all shaky and you're like, yeah, you got camp on your back, you camp on your back, you're hunting. It doesn't come out in conversation, but I respect and understand what you guys need to do, and I uh, I could turn it right around and like give your side of the story, you know, and I honestly view it as I honestly view it as a UM team.

Yeah that there's that there's a push and pull going on. You know, if I was always if I always won all that stuff, it would be to the detriment. Like likewise, if the reason the show is good is because we can't enforce our will on the production, because then it just be like like, yeah, there's shows out there, like there a lot of a lot of fakery, like authenticity. People use that word all the time. We want authentic media or we want to like and they're so full

of ship. They don't want they don't want that. They just want to, uh write a script like block it out, like shoot this shoot that television production is based on. UM. You have a specific amount of money, specific time in the field, and so you guarantee what's going to happen, and the fact that we're hunting, there's no guarantee of anything. That's why all these hunts end with you know, quote unquote failure or the eleventh hour or the eleventh hour

because you're actually doing it. But the filmmaker part of me is like, I gotta try to control as much as I can to make sure we have these the start of a scene or the end of a scene or like but you know, and Yanni was good, Yeah, but like a little a little a little SoundBite that closes a moment, you know, like put a button on that. Yeah, So there's like some you're doing TV all the while

you're just at the whim of chaos. Yeah. Yeah, it's unlike most other productions, like the you guys already said, you know, you just you don't have all those components that you would normally have on every other show that we've worked on. You have fly on the wall, and then you've got to figure out how to make sure you're camera batteries don't run out and your tapes don't run out, media doesn't run out. I guess tapes is a little aniquated at this point, but ah, same thing.

So it's different in that respect. In that regard, it's different than every other hunting show or even television production show worked on. Well, there's always you know, there's like minutes a day. Wow, I don't know. I want to talk about other shows. There's other shows out there that are like pretty tough. But I'm always like, how hard are they really? Are they that? Are they that hard?

Because like, we're doing some pretty hard stuff. There's some hard stuff that people do, but meter's pretty You're you're juggling a lot. You're juggling a lot. That sounds like you guys should get paid more. Oh buddy, well inflation is up man. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what. Just like those contractors out there, everybody's in demand. But what do you guys? Explain the economics? Like, not the economics with exact numbers, but explain how one lives as

a freelance camera operator. Well the coin your term. We're all free trappers in this room. I think there's like, no, there's no staff like film or just film is right for me? Neater staff south staff Yeah, yeah, but we know we don't have any we don't have any staff, just camera people. But in a lot of ways, being a camera operator or director of photography, is your an independent contractor your work for higher You make a day rate,

and the day rates pretty standard yep. In terms of like nonfiction TV, there's like kind of like a there's like a threshold of low to high and it kind of operates within like a window of that and uh, you something, you can bring your own tools and rent your tools to the production camera or other equipment to kind of like bump your day rate. Yeah, you're in

that biz right to have my own gear. Yeah, depending depending on the production, which is nice because then you can work for less because your people are happier to pay for equipment than they are labor. Dude, people don't like paying. I'm always like, why are we paying like a robot man? Give me yeah, But they're like they're like, oh no, they like they like negoti you're rate. But then you're like and I'm gonna bring some gear and

they're like, oh, yeah, whatever it is. I don't know if it's like a part of capitalism or they're like, yeah, they want to argue about your value more than the value of having your camera there. Yeah, we'll find another guy and just will rent your No, I mean it's it is a funny. It's a funny economy in the sense that you know, the the UK is the biggest probably nonfiction industry. Yeah, like because until Attenborough dies, and I think it's gonna dry up Attenburgh anymore. To be

like who can do his accents? Some would be like, oh, look a whale state stay funded. Phil, you can't do it. Yea, my voice isn't I'm not doing it. Yeah, what's even sound like? Like he's got like he's like very formal, he's like he has a very still like Stilton, and he's developed the minimalist style over the years. Now he'll just come in and be like Wales I think just gets war out. Yeah, he likes a little punchy little things. You know that that whole busical when he died. But

Brits economies funded. But you know they have socialized system where they didn't probably have you know, six six figure uh student loans or whatnot. So like the the US, like we don't have healthcare. All these things add up, so our rates are generally, like a US camera man's rates are higher than because you're talking about Yeah it's freelancers. We don't have benefits. Yeah, we have to pay retirement. Yeah, like all that stuff. When people are like, what are

you doing for what do the Brits have? They just have They're not being in healthcare. They get paid a lower day rate. We get paid on the government pays them for everything else they have in Canada to Costana has healthcare. So us camera people, we got that edge to us man, Yeah, man, you gotta really scrap, you really take the cloths off and go ahut. That's what

I was telling. Uh. I was arguing with Jay Sevens about Canada, and I was saying, you know, you guys don't have that What I was gonna say, you guys don't have that edge. You know, they're just comfortable. The fact that the show he finished my sentence for me, he finished my setens for I said, you guys don't have that mindless ferocity. No. The fact that the show

happened during the pandemic, like we were in production. Dude, if it wasn't for Mediator, I'd been like, yeah, you had to go on unemployment during that because I had no No, I mean, dude, our industry shut down, everybody did. But the fact that we had that season production when everybody else was Oh dude, we were working. Yeah, we were working. I loved it. It was great man. We were up in Alaska cabin in Pennsylvania. Yeah, that was where we all got to see. We worked all through

the pandemic and um and uh. I still can't get the governor of Florida to come on the podcast. You're trying to get into Santis on here. Yeah, he'd love it if you heard that. Why wouldn't Why did we busted? Asked through the pandemic? You think keep doing here right now? Gave each other COVID. It sounds like he loves He won't come out. I don't know. He was erman. I want to talk to Hi about the Everglades. Oh yeah, he's passed some they've passed some good conation. I gotta

get on that again. Please come on, Ron. Yeah well hell, I mean they were pretty busy the last month on that. Yeah yeah, yeah, No, I'd probably less likely to happen now, But I want to talk about the Everglades and sort of like the politics of the Everglades in Florida. But the antagonistic relationship that the crew and Steve have to have it is what makes the show good. If if if Steve gave us everything we requested, the show would

be bad. It wouldn't be some actual ones like I don't know, I got an early one that actually is beneficial for us, and you, Steve, that makes me look good. It's in Mexico on that trip you're talking the first one. I remember, I was, I was very new to me eater, but understood if you didn't film and it didn't happen. And I was on the long lens at that point.

Then we're Cou's deer hunting, and remember you were talking about I think Rick and Chris were doing the cross coverage eyes on long lens and you were talking about a deer. So I was getting into position to try to shoot video of the deer and you snapped at me. Sure, yeah, but I was being because I grew up hunting, so I knew, like, you know, I don't want to spook

this thing that is the subject matter. And so after after you know, you kind of snapped at me, I said, you know, if I don't film it, it doesn't make sense, and like this this scene won't make it, and you you like you greet and you're like, okay, just be you know, just be careful, be quiet. Ye got in a fight recently, and I think you said, he snapped back, like we've done this before. Steve said, this is my fiftie episode. Bro. Yeah, oh dude, I did not say

that you the moose was. I was a little frustrated. Yeah, I was. I was more responding to being offended that you didn't think I had the savviness not to spook the moose and you were this Alaska moose just happened. Alaska moose. We got, We like had a bowl. We took his temperature. He looked interested. Yeah, and he wasn't. But for a minute he looked interested, and I just wanted I wanted us in case he came. Yeah, I wanted lockdown and I was not in lockdown mode yet.

I was like a couple of seconds for this is the other thing related to that. We film everybody that's on camera settle into position, get quiet. Oh thank you. Yeah, we were. We have a packs on people decided to sit down, be quiet. When we go to do the same thing they just did thirty seconds before we did, we get yelled at it and then we have to sit down otherwise. Goddamn it. Yeah, you guys just rustled, took off your jacket all this ship. Dude, I've gotten

so good at that, and that's what I'm settled. Yeah, they don't want over the ridge. I want to. I want to slip over the ridge and just settle. Yeah, so I slip over. I take my backpack off, put on some layers whatever, get ready to snacks out. And also I hear noise behind me and it makes me want to kill people. And also it's like russelling. It's like then there are times where it's like Okay, you get into position and you settle, and it's like okay,

we're glassing. But then you're like really hungry and you're like, I know, I got some dry mangoes in my bag, but they're in like the loudest cella yea. I try to get silent at it, but it's tough. Yeah. Yeah, But that was the situation on Moose. I think we had filmed you guys seeing it, and then I was getting in a position to cross shoes and then I was I was locked in. But yeah, that was the fight. That was all the equipment is loud, all of it,

everything everything we have. You can't just get the shot by being silent. You gotta you gotta make noise, you gotta move around. There's also like physics involved in our job, and I don't know if it's physics, it's geometry, thanks rick Um. It's like, we have to be in a position where we can see things that are happening and see people's faces and then but we also need to be in like a correlated position with the other camera person so that when you're in the when you're editing it,

everything cuts together. Well, because if you don't observe this thing called eighty degree rule, you when you cut two images together, it looks like the people are looking different directions. It doesn't look like they're talking to each other on camera. It's like, well, I think the way we explain it was the line where I had you punch one direction and then I flipped across the line and had you punch again, and your punches are going different directions, screen directions.

Remember that in Turkey, Uh, not in Turkey, but filming Turkey in South Carolina. And this was part of the argument about why you guys move around so much. Yeah, well, and it's especially true when the talent comes on and has no idea what blocking is or as ever, because you guys dance around constantly, you're constantly moving around looking at things, shifting and then a guy switched places and we have to switch places. So it's just a constant thing.

We're looking at each other's eyes. What are you on? What are you on? They moved, Oh my god, we have to move to you're shooting across the line or something not. And the editors sometimes will say, oh, don't worry about that, and then yeah, it's usually and I it's like the direction that the character on the screen is looking, and so we're just we're just aware of that in a way that it's called vector line, right,

it's a three line. Can you just explain that for like a viewer watching, it's like you're watching Steve face to the right of the screen and looked to the right at some distant critter he's just like caught sight of. And then something else happens and then you need to avoid that the next shot is suddenly that you are in a different place as a camera guy in relation to Steve, and Steve is now facing to the left of the screen. Because then as a viewer, you have

no idea what's going on. I mean, just after like hundreds of years of theater and television and film, our brains are kind of subconsciously trained to to watch movies and in a certain way. And when that one eighty line or like what you gets talking about is broken, like what Crimson cameraman is all of a sudden behind Steve when he was in front you're it kind of messes with how your brain is like visualizing like the geometry of the scene, and then it's subconsciously kind of

throws you off. The editor can can flip an image, but people don't. It looks weird. Your face looks all weird. Yeah, it doesn't like a weird mirror. So but it happens that that's the most important in conversation because if it's just you doing action on your own, Steve cooking something, you can always go to that close up shot, go right back to him, and if it's a different it might be somewhat jarring, but as long as you pop

to a different shot, it's not as jarring. Here's one thing I like you guys to explain that I've been trying to prod at recently, and I don't get it we'll film all manners stuff all the time where there's no control over what's going on. Okay, just zero control. There's nothing you can do about light, there's nothing to do about rain, there's nothing to do about where an animal comes from, when it comes, who says, what, who does what, someone misses, hits whatever. I know where you're going.

Then all of a sudden, something will happen, and you guys act like you guys act like there's a thousand variables that you now need to control. Why is this scenes? It's mostly the meal scenes. I feel like we're like, we're gonna talk about something that we kind of know we're gonna talk about. Yeah, if you're just setting up like a dialogue beat and we're so like, okay, we gotta explain what's going on. So and then all of a sudden, where was all this for the rest of

the undered hours of stuff you guys filmed. Because there's a thing I think it's like we can work in those environments where there is no control and you kind of like our our brains kind of just be like, Okay, don't worry about the fact that, like the light is terrible right now, because there's no, you cannot have control. But as soon as you let like a little crack of control can come in, it's just like we'll just grab at it and then we'll just start talking food,

food and green light. Nobody wants to eat that food. So, yeah, certain foods on a headlamp, like doesn't look great. It just doesn't look appetizing. You know, there's these conventions of how people have gotten used to looking at food and if it looks bad, it's gonna taste bad. Nobody can taste the food. If it looks good, it's gonna taste good. It's just like it's a visual medium. Nobody can smell

the smells or whatever. So if it all has like a greenish tint to it, like under some fluorescent light, maybe the experiences that's the actual experience of where you guys are eating. That doesn't work for TV. Let's say it's too Yeah to that point, and so this is going to be a stretch because I'm spit balling. But as a hunter, you go out preseason, you go scout, you take your time, you do you know, you do everything you kind of can pre pre actual hunt. You

go site in your rifle. You know, maybe at a shooting range with a bench and a target in place, so you're putting all this time into that that part of the hunt. And then when you're out in the field and you know there's there's a game coming over the ridge and you're in a weird spot to shoot, but you still like that's that's happening real time. There's no arguing with it. Yeah, you just have to you have to do what you can do. And that's kind

of the same. If we do have the chance to like make something look good, to tell the story better, we're gonna we're gonna put in that effort, whereas those other times we just you can't. You kind of just wallow the pill. Jared Andrew Cannis, who's a producer over at zero point zero, he told me early on in my producer career that there's only two scenes that you

can really control. When you go out and do make a meat eater, and that's the intro of the show, and then the meal scene, which is usually our outro, and everything in the middle you're just gonna have to, you know, roll the dice and spray and pray and get the best you can spray and praise not true these guys aren't praying usually when they shoot, but you know what I mean, those are the two times though, and when you can slow down a little bit and just make sure you really nail it and to give

two nice bookends to an episode, dude. And there is no worse feeling. I mean, there's probably worse feelings, but it's it is so brutal to be like looking at your monitor and looking at just like a potato and I'd say potato, not like a real like just like a real dogshit frame and you're just like, oh my god, it's it's torture. It's to you're just like looking at it and you're just like, I know what I need to do to make this not look good, but we can't.

And I'm just like a buddy, this is hard. That's a hard pill to swallow. That's one of the other camera man has an acronym for that. It's called nimming. Tyler Emmett is one of the other camera guys. Is not here, but uh, what are you doing over there? Tyler? He's like, oh, nimmon, what do you what do you mean? Nimmon? Not in movie. I'm shooting something that will not be let me ask you guys nother question. Uh. I'll start

out with set a scene for you. You know what you go to when you're at home depot or someplace like that, and someone wants a product that's up on the high shelf and they got six people. They've got people with flags, he's got orange vests. The guy buckled into the scissor lift was buckled into the fork lift, and you know, there's a siren going off and he's gonna like extract a grill from the up left, you know, and it looks like they're, you know, getting ready to

arm a nuclear warhead. With the amount of staff and safety pro safety protocol, they shut down that whole quadit accordion metal fence up. Yeah. Man, okay, Uh, you don't work in that environment, not regularly. So how what's your attitude? Uh? What are your attitudes with risk? Because there's like pretty

real risk about injury. Yeah. Well, like we were talking about my attitude change because we had that goat hunt and I'm not I'm not ashamed to say it, but we got into a spot where we were like crampons. This was the Mountain goat hunt, Like to when was that? Was it last year might be in Yeah, I think

it was season ten. Yeah. We got into a spot where you took a shot at that goat and we've been hiking all day and uh we got we were like in an avalanche shot where it was like I don't know how how big was that she from like where we were scrambling around to like the bottom which was just like giant down timber that was like thousand I mean that whole drainage was probably but if you took a slip and rolled the hill down, how deep? Yeah, So I was that to me, I felt the dead

but like a mess. You'd be real banged up. And that was I think that was the only time I bailed on a stock. I was like, I didn't. I just was not feeling it that day and not used to cramp. Yeah, cramp on and so I calculate risk and more now than I did. But when we were in grizzly country, we slept on this hon I just did with Yanni. Yannie was the only dude sleeping outside of the bear fence. That bear fence is only for your mind, dude. I kind of looked down on you

for him. The picture of that bear that they put on that bear fence is just like there's no I thought you had it for keeping your caribou meat safe. No, when they yeah, we around, it's like he just don't. But I mean like I wasn't really thinking about risk. I'm not really thinking about it in that environment. It's like more like if I have control, I don't know. It's hard to explain. I mean, you guys did get attacked by a grizzly bear. Yeah, we got charged by

a grizzly bear. Yeah, that story has been That story has been told. You know what me and Chris were talking about. That's a shame on that. On the fog Knack trip, the fishing was freaking amazing, and I always forget to like think of talk about what you think about that. Oh, you guys get some gravy. It's because you wrote a grizzlyberger kind of Yeah, you guys get some amazing opportunities. Oh dude, that's more messages being like thanks for the amazing fishing. Don't you have to pay

for my own healthcare? But know that that shoe we did up at the fish shack, that was like during like Pete COVID deal. That was like July. That was where we went up fishing and there was a moment where we're on the boat. We were like tethered to Steven. Janni were on camera and we were tethered to your guys boat and if you guys hooked up, we'd quickly like pull the line on our bow to get up

to your boat to film it. And then that was like kind of like we were dicking around a lot, and then there was a moment you're like, all right, we're gonna fish, We're gonna film, and we're like that trip was amazing. Man, that was a good trip. So that was the one where I where I feel like I did not hit the mark as the producer because the show there was Steve teaching you guys all how to fish. I felt like we did like I don't want to say lackluster, but it wasn't our best performance.

We pulled a great episode out of that, but that was that was also the happiest I've ever seen that how many having a baby get married? The black hats number one, You're pretty stoked on that moose this last trip or two ago. I was not like that black cod though, dude, that black hot I mean it was. It was funny that you were that it worked up about it, because like the process of doing that is

so underwhelming, and it's so like there's a PostScript to that. Yeah, I thought it was going to be um, oh yes, I mean visually I thought learning how to catch black cod I thought it was going to be very very hard to get good at it. Right then we caught one right away, and I was happy because it turned out that it wasn't gonna be very hard to learn how to do it, and it has been nothing but downhill from there. Really, it's, in fact, turned out to

be harder than I ever thought it was. And you caught me at a moment of false symptimism that was like a total fluke beginner's luck, total fluke. Whoa fluke? No, I haven't heard that. Whoa, I didn't know that. That makes it even better. Every time I go, I get worse at it. Really, So I was like, this is gonna be a decade long process, right to learn how to deep drop black out. And I'm like, oh, I thought I was gonna have to spend ten years trying

to figure this out. Here it is, well, yeah, you're getting ready to make a new show called Drop Boys. So we're gonna travel the world to the deepest places and drop that electric rod down. See if we catch de drop Boys. I think they're still Yeah, there's still a market for that. Yeah, I wouldn't abandon that, Garrett, tell me, what's the prettiest scene that you shot in season eleven? Man, remind me of what those would have been. The season to the next is like so arbitrary because

notes com prepared. I mean I only worked on one episode and season eleven, so it's easy for me to think, Okay, well in uh in uh the tur turkey, Yeah, walking through those stands of ponderosa up high to that place with like really tall grass and the like the light on the grass in the mornings in the evening, Steve walking through it slow motion. Man, we had different trips on that, different experiences much totally. You suffered way more than I did. It was beautiful though, Yeah, but that's

pretty stuff. And the and when you got your turkey, Steve. I think that stuff made the show real. Pretty back lit area we were in first, that was a wilderness area before they had wilderness areas, so they made the HeLa. They had some other name for it. Eldo Leopold advocated for it. They made the HeLa. They didn't have the right. They came here. What they called it. They made it a wilderness. It was the Forest Services only area that

had that level of protection. Then later when they passed the Wilderness Act, they rolled the helo was the first thing they rolled into it. So we were doing a thing about the helo and the way fire shapes the landscape, and uh, yeah, it was a beautiful place. I mean

I think, yeah, like every place we go. I mean not every place, because there's sometimes we'd every place because you were always The cool thing about this show is like we're always up and out before the sunrise typically, and so you get to go and like very remote places and see it and experience it at like the best times because you're usually out after sunset because you're hunting till last light and you're up before first light, and you're just seeing like the most like I've seen

the most amazing ship working on this show, like landscapes and nature and just things that we observe that I even like personally, it's still like don't go out and go as hard as we do on on the show, So it's like always a real treat to go see something like even the first one that stretch up in BC was like, dude, there was like that day where the kind of the clouds broke and it was kind

of like that that spin drip. Oh and in the on the Goat Hunt when we had that crazy oh my god, God shining down the craziest thing I've ever seen in my life. It's like stunning. I'm goose bumps. There's so many like you're saying, yeah, you just see like really amazing, amazing stuff. I don't know if we capture it to the level that we're experiencing, and I hope we do, but we try. It almost leaves you

with a feeling of failure a little bit. And when you see stuff like that, you're just like, dude, that's all like pretty beautiful places and things, landscapes. What about like a scene where you caught that veritate moment of a human having having an emotional experience or having experiencing you were there to capture it. I got I got one Based on Season eleven, for sure. I think about a lot is when when you and Evan when he ended up, you know, you guys were in position and

he shot that blacktail. The elation in like like uh, the celebration was like so cool, and I think we got that. You guys like can brace in and being like man, we just kept putting it, you know, putting the coals to the fire and it paid off just that, like unhindered joy. That was cool. Yeah, similar in the in the Moose experience to it when Clay laid that thing down. I mean, you guys were hugging and high

five and it was crazy in the moment. You know, like we'll see how it all ends up in the edit, but I mean that was definitely high in that hunt. It sounds cliche to say it, but I yeah, I just it's it's like it's just getting to it's probably it's like a thing of aging, I guess, but it's just fun to watch people get stuff. Man, that it's fun to watch people get stuff, especially after you've worked

all that time where we thought we were done. You know, we thought after nine and a half days, we're going on for an afternoon, let's glass on the place where we haven't seen any moose. And it comes together. I mean that is next level. Those are the best man, because that's said, yeah, where you get like the best emotion. And so I think like outside of the success or failure ultimately, like you're and too, I'd like to think of us as production crew. We're all in good enough shape.

Like there's not a ton of struggle in the field, like visually, like that would be another kind of cool thing if you were like all disheveled and tired and like no no, yeah, so there's not really like an emotion in that and the like lead up process. Oh yeah, if you if I could produce that for season twelve, Yeah, Steve on some skis out there, some more dirt on his face. We gotta put more dirt on his face.

Two kept together, so that just like cruising. I mean even even back to the the episode one of season eleven, I mean that was brutal, but I don't think it seeing it. I don't know what part of the cut I saw off it was the final, But it doesn't

the suffrage. It doesn't read because you guys are just kept together kind of and you're watching a week turned into twenty two minutes exactly with a lot of So if you just took the twenty two minute or whatever the hell Now we don't you know, we're not like wed to the twenty two minute things much. But if you just took it and made it like people hiking through the rain for twenty two minutes, make it look you get the right dismal feeling. But how much can

you really devote to it. It's like you can't capture it's it's really hard to capture. How much time is spent on a glass and knob, yeah, because because I edit, Yeah, yeah, I mean, you spend like four days on some glass and tit. How much is that actually? How much of the show does it actually make? You know? I attempted

to do that in the last gay. I took a time lapse of you sitting there glassing, which will not make it obviously with people in them laps people time lapses of any vertebrate except migrating caribou were okay, oh yeah.

I thought maybe if it was you, just you by yourself, maybe they're But I don't think that's because it's because of the subject matter, because I feel the same way it looks weird about whether it's a human or a tree blowing in the wind, and time laps, it just shakes in the frame, and it's one of the ugliest things you could put on television. H you need the end, you need to slow that shutter, telling the story of

how long you were sitting there. That's the only reason I took that shot because it definitely paints a picture of how long during that nine days we sat there

and not didn't move just a class. There's things that I think that there's things people work on where it's not hard, but they they're making it seem There's like media products, products where they're trying to make something seem hard that's not yeah, And I think one of the frustrations of working on stuff is that, um, there's stuff that you watch later and you're like, why can't you can't? Like why can't you? And this is no, this isn't

the too. In saying this, it's not to criticize the coverage, it's just why can't you capture certain amounts of annoyance? You know, like being just in very high wind? What what being in very high wind for five or six days feels like you can't get there, you can't feel what it feels like just to wake up and be like, oh, I'm gonna go and try to find the fortitude to sit on this to sit on this hill and watch the valley blow, despite all indicators that nothing is gonna happen,

that you'll go do that and there's an experience you're living. Um, you just can't you can't get to it because because of the of the time limit. It's what kind of makes that stuff interesting. We've joked about it is that stuff they're into in Northern Europe, right, isn't Northern Europe? They're big into it. Where you just watched like a fire slow TV TV. Yeah, oh yeah, I mean I'm into that. You're in slow TV train? What do you

watch on slow TV? Yeah? He was like a train going through like the Alps or something for three hours. You know, you could drone like like just long drone footage going over like cities, canyons slow TV. I think so I like that because that's what our that's what our TV goes to you when you're not doing anything.

It's like shots shorelines or drone shots of mountaintops, or just like underwater as though like you know, you were free diving or you had a scuba tank with like unlimited amount of you know, uh and you're just like going for hours, like swimming under like maybe it's home from like a submarine or something a TV. I don't think we capture very well as well, we don't because we put the cameras awa. Time gets dark and we're

going back to camp. Often the most like not exciting, but like the adventure part of the venture starts as soon as like we're like, okay, let's pack up the cameras because it's dark. Don't anything that brings us back to full circle to year in Garrett's first trip when we walked by supposedly the same rock in the darkness where it goes, we've that rock right there. Don't listen to that. Steve always says it's not a death march

until you disagree about where you're going. Yeah, finally, a death is not a death march until there's a fight and there's like there's a fight and there's people that are going to branch off and go their own direction. We're not sticking together as a team anymore. Boys that you guys can go that way, we'll see it camp. Well, we ended up we ended up walking out a different way than we came in. Uh. After I got his bucket, right, Yeah, that night, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, And it was not

it was not the ideal route. Technology has changed death marches because what here's what used to drive What used to drive a death marches is what drove a death marches. This. You are in difficult to navigate terrain and you're operating with GPS with no mapping or track function, right, So you wander around all day being like I'm gonna go around that cactus patch and there's a little pass through the hill, right and and that looks like a horrible

little ditch that I should not go around. And then at dark, all you know is you know a point that you made where campus, and so then it's like, I guess we'll just walked straight to that point. That's not how you got there. There are so many nights and we've been walking. I'm just like walking behind you, like a couple of people behind you. And then all of a sudden we stopped. I see the GPS come out, and I'm like, ship, we're not anywhere and we're not

close to home. Boys. Started keeping my own track once you could do that, because I just started to mistrust the what was the one in Colorado? We did with Rourke that it was like that wasn't a full There was one with Brody we got a big fight was on that one down to the golf course. That now that night, that was a good one. I enjoyed that one.

But earlier we did some We went to the It's always easy to go down to the to the bottom of a draw easically, think it's easier walking for a little bit until it turns into a waterfall and then you're like, oh, this wasn't the right right. Yeah, I do think I'll stand by this. I do think that um that people don't like my route selection, but it's not haphazard. Okay, it's not. I'm factoring in. I'm probably

factoring in more things than you're factoring in. It's probably It's probably true, which is I don't care if I'm lost or not. That's one of the things which is good because when I first started, I did not like walking a night. Really, I hadn't done a lot of it. I have the sense of like I could be back to the spot. There's no you don't need to be anywhere. We have all this, but there's a sense that I've gotta get back. Yeah, it's like I think it's ingrained

in US as a whatever. There's no you don't need to be anywhere. It really opens up possibilities when you say, Okay, I'll hike for three hours in the dark or yeah, or just it's fine, it's gonna be fine. Like there's no sense of you need to be here at a certain time or do you think all the listeners understand them, like or maybe people that don't hunt much like hunting

and Western hunting is like there's generally no trails. I just like I think, but I think of people who don't hunt or haven't really spent a lot of time out west in the mountains and stuff. Yeah, it's like most of it's not on a trail. So we're talking about like hiking back in the night. It's like you're just you're walking on the Yeah, you're bushwhacking. Yeah, And

that's like I can wear you down. Some of my five some of my best, um, some of my happiest, my mentally happiest moments would be not filming anything, but when you got just enough moonlight to do a good no headland night hike. I like that. It was nice. That was a really nice when when when you when everybody's just running dark a few miles like that. Yeah, that happened on the go hunt. I feel like a couple of times with that the snow, the snow is

bright enough no headlamps to kind of bugging you. Yea, I love it. The headland can be a little disorienting because you only have like your little tube a light that you can look through. You know, so if you kind of let your eyes, if it's not pitch black out, if you let your eyes aggest, you can end up seeing a lot which is cool. Um. I was just wondering.

I know we don't have uh, Justin Turkowski here, paren James Hare, but for any of you guys who have done like surface water filming, I don't think any of you guys have done underwater filming or have you. If someone could speak a little bit, yeah, I mean I can't speak to Justin and parents. They're like real, like the real deal. I will say to their cover is just amazing. A little bit I did. I ended up burning up a camera, So yeah, you've done speaking of

the like difficulty of keeping gear running for sure. No, But the thing I think Justin it was really impressive because when we were down this is not this is season ten. I think I didn't do the season eleven hawaii wan but we were down there with a similar crew. You came up, Steve, and you were talking about how like you guys were on some fish you shot and then surfaced to catch air and then went back down and justin like stayed down the whole time, and like

you on that to be very impressive. Yeah. I was like, dude, that is because it's like, yeah, his coverage on that I don't and I don't see parents, but I'm sure it's like absolutely just as insane. It's like it's like we talked about were bitchy little bitches, but like, dude, the underwater stuff is a whole different deal. Like his coverage is so impressive because he's able to like connect everything kind of in one shot. And I think it's also the way things are set up underwater and going

to play out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's really cool. I guess in that way, it seems like the skill of the camera operators need to be equal to or surpass the skills of the hunter, right, which is the case. Yeah, in the room, I'm just gonna ask who like didn't who hasn't hunted or didn't grow up hunting, and then now because they've been like following Steve and Janice and the rest of our gang, Like who could just pick it up and do it? I didn't grow up hunting,

but I could. I could I get something down if I had to. I think, I don't know, not nothing, maybe not a wall hanger, but I could shoot it up. Steve, what do you think I mean? I don't know. I mean, unless you're just kicked in the head by a mutle, I don't know how you would not have picked up like a lot of little points. Yeah, you know that's that's a funny point. Because we were in Alaska and I had this on our Texas deal too with Johannis thing. It was like I really enjoyed the hunting side of

it more than the filming side of it. Like I wanted to not film. I just wanted to like be hunting caribou because I like, I feel like I have a knowledge of hunting now that I didn't have when I started. Took a long time to get it, but yeah, I feel like I spotted some game on that one. I had some good some good eyes We just made a video of an episode we tried to make for season eleven, but it was just lots of problems with weather equipment, COVID. UH. It was an ice fishing episode.

So we made a ten minute We made a ten minute video about the episode that never will be in an explanation of why I'll never being. It's kind of a it's a little bit of a condemnation. I sent

it to UH. I sent to a friend of mine who was friends with UM, a friend of mine whose friends with Jim Harrison, and I sent it to him to watch and he had to laugh about it, and he said, you've read Harrison's piece about ice fishing called the moronic sport, right, But of all the things, uh, what is the hardest thing that What is the hardest thing to make seem interesting with a camera? Ice fishing and white tailed deer standard and white tailed deer stand

That's crazy because that's that's you're talking about. Probably of the outdoor television he has made his white tailed deer stands, and all of it's like pretty formulaic because there's only something. There's really so much you can do, like you can't you're stuck in a spot. You know you can't cover it. You can't. You're not walking around, you're not glass and

there's not like new things. You're usually solitary, so there's no conversations with like another person that you can do the way you can with like a Western style hunt or if you're fishing or something. It's like, yeah, it's pretty much. A friend described it to me as whisper whisper shoot. That's pretty accurate. Yeah, ice fishing in white tail deer home, anytime you're anytime you're stuck in one spot, it's really hard to just give a variety of angles.

Menasitor has a hard time because you just don't have you don't have like the coverage. It's just limited. You have like one viewpoint. Yeah, I feel like the talent is going to carry that the whole way through. The white tail hunter with that camera in his face, talking about what's going on is your content because otherwise you're looking at time lapses, leaf shots, maybe some deer. There's been so many times when you're up on like our eight of just sitting in a saddle and you're just like,

I guess I'll film some more bark. That's never gonna make it to ye. Yeah, yeah, yeah, those are tough. I remember one time I got we were doing a Michigan hunt much. I don't know if that episode came out that there was three the other day, said to I said to it, I forgot. There's been three that we didn't do. Out of the d fifty whatever, there's been three we didn't cut, but that was that was one we didn't cut that. Yeah, well, Chris, I asked Steve,

I said, did that show not make it? Because Chris had to get out of the stand take No, I hadn't take a leak, man, I climbed down. The other debate about the tree stand hunting is like if you're in the same tree or the not the same tree, but you snake it out and just peak, yeah and basically touching. If I was in a tree stand, it's easy to take a leak. But I was in a blind on somebody else's property, and I was like, well, I'm not just gonna like pee in this side of

this dude's blind, right, because that's kind of messed up. Yeah, in a box blind and you were in a tree that I could you were like, I don't know, twenty yards away from me. Lass on and we hadn't seen anything all morning, and I'm like, okay, really I gotta take a leak. So I climbed down. I'd left I made a rookie mistake. I'd left my camera in the blind because I didn't want to make noise climbing down the ladder and like banging everything around. So I leave

the camera. I get down. I get down the ladder. All of a sudden, I see Steve do like the antler hands up and I'm just like, and I can hear this thing like crunching the leaves, and I'm like, and I just I like take out my cell phone and I'm like, try slowly race up my iPhone like it's gonna make it in. That was That was a that was the lesson to learn. Man, I knew better leave my camera too. I was like bummed out about that. Yeah, that was one of the That was probably the coldest.

That was one of the coldest I've ever That's that wet Midwest. Yeah that was cold. That was cold. Yeah, that was a tough one. Well man, We've got to go out and make some more shows. Oh, please do it? Please do I do have to say I'm old for two on this season. I was supposed to do two of them, and I got way laid for various reasons. Um, without a doubt, Like all of us have been saying, it's like amazing being out in the field filming this show.

Every time I learned something, whether it's hunting or tenacity or you know, I just can't say enough about how how big of an influence. This last seven years of filming this with you has been positive, all positive, best job, best job I've ever had. For sure. I thought of doubt. You guys have all taken your little breaks too and going on to you know stuff, air quotes, you know better things, and then I wouldn't say better well at

the time you did. And then six months later I get an email, our phone call, so I got scratches different at all, scratches different. Yeah, No, I've it's been I've had I've had just a wonderful time with you guys. Man. Um. As much as I like I love knocking around with my kids, um, I like just going doing stuff for fun, but I really, uh yeah, the time, the time we've all spent in the field has been pretty special, and

we've seen a lot of crazy ship yeah, real adventure. Yeah, there's no there's there's Yeah, there's nothing else I do for work that's like there's like kind of created or constructed adventure. This is real adventure. Every time you don't know what's gonna happen? Is it? Is it? Drug Store Cowboys? That Gus Vand's Aunt movie where the guys always says, uh, the things we've seen, Bob, the things we've seen, I always quote that it's crazy shit. Well that other cool

thing too. And we've all talked about like the most positive feedback from the general public anything I've nobody cares about anything else. They're like, you know, Steve Ornel, Yeah, like, uh, can I get you to sign you know, I have something signed. Yeah. It's been fun, man, things we've seen and the things we'll see, things will sing in the future. Ye No. And the cast of characters that come come along with the show, like Danny Yep and everybody else

that we've gotten to meet over the years. I value all those Oh. I mean you could just spend time like I didn't know col and then all of a sudden you you spend all day every day for like a week ago. Cal Yeah, you're like, oh, I know this guy. Yeah great, Yeah, it's right. How many guys are sticking around for Tribuae. I got nowhere to go, I got nowhere to be. You're not a local and not a local. So when you're watching season eleven or any of the show is going back a long long time.

These are some of the These are the voices you will not hear occusially Gill's voices in there. Maybe in the background. It was a cameo now and then, but it's like the people behind it. I once it was of a different camera guy that went back to the one of the guys that shot the very first episodes, very first episodes. I once uh remarked that I thought that the amount of walking it was like the per the me is a bird hunter and the cameraman was the bird dog. And the amount of miles put on, Yeah,

putting some miles on. So when you're watching the show, uh, that's who's putting the miles on. And um, we'll be rolling out an episode every week, I don't know how eight shows. Uh we uh some some great spearfish and stuff, big game hunting stuff, turkey stuff, the usual mix, great characters and uh, we'll be seen first again for free. I keep the get people seeing that they think where it's like a chart, it's for free. That's a good deal, man, that's a good deal watching. Go watch you watch all

kinds of stuff on there available there. We'll have a lot of auxiliary stuff and watch out for our episode where we deconstruct why an episode doesn't become an episode that is an episode that's a full episode. No, it's just a YouTube video. It's ten minutes long. But it's about why Yannie doesn't think it's funny. But Yanni's like has taken to negging me all the time. He thinks it's two inside baseball. But I think it's funny. It's funny. I'm honest, it's very it's a very it's a funny

thing about why ice fishing is the white whale. I'd say it's the white whale, which is a Moby Dick reference. You guys aren't well read why it's the white whale? Aboutdoor TV. It can't be captured. That's in there. Yeah, that was in there. That's in there. That's probably the video. You can't if it's not spearing. It's like, it's the white whale. Ice fish you cannot be captured. Um, and so we'll release that and you'll and you'll see about that. But season eleven good as ever. Meat dot Com check

it out and stay tuned for trivia. We'll see what these guys have picked up over the years. Oh not much, No no, I got a expectations from my performance. I think there's gonna be some strong performance. Thanks everybody for joining