Ep. 324: The Latvian Eagle's Heavy-Assed Arrow

on the weekend? Yeah, and then if if they're like, well, they sit at home watch sports all weekend, And it's like, all right, you're fine. You can think about putting your kids in sports. Yeah, you can do both. Who can sports and outdoor activities? I can't. Well, I didn't know. He a young individual, lots outdoor activities and great podcast incompatible. Here's the main thing. I have a certain bag here. I have a certain bag of tricks to bring to that I can bring to the table. Need have a

whole conversation. What are you doing? I was telling Karanta, hit the record, I'll turn the recorderback on I have a certain bag of tricks that I can bring to the table as a parent that that should be valued. Like, let's say, for instance, let's say name for me a sports figure, Michael Jordan's. Uh, Michael Jordan comes over to

spend the weekend at your house. Okay, it would make sense that if there's a basketball court and he's staying the weekend and he says, I'd love to take the kids out to shoot a few hoops as they say, you would be like, well, that makes a hell of a lot of sense, seeing that's how you're Michael Jordan's. So if you have a person that likes to hunting fish in the house, and you have hunting and fishing

to be done around home, wouldn't you extend the same logic? Sure, Okay, you wouldn't be like, hey, everybody, Michael Jordan's here for the weekend, let's go ice fishing. Maybe you'd be like, hey, Michael, He's like, no, I wanted to shoot some hoops the kids. No, no, no, no, no, no no no no no, take them ice fishing. Clearly, you don't understand that Michael Jordan's actually just a degenerate gambler. That's all I really want to do. When he was

at Man, I watched that whole movie. Listen, I watched it. That's why I know a lot about this. I came away from that like with deep admiration for the guy. Did none of that. You didn't come away thinking he was an asshole. None of that bad stuff resonated with me. None of that bad stuff resonated with me. Last dance. Yeah, I like all that. I like all that. Playing for keeps like, I like all that all. I liked all

that stuff, all of it. Okay, turn around, Phil, that was all free content for everyone for you six No, that was free. No, I think we should publish that as a free bonus extra. Yeah when no lead in just launched straight in middle free, don't say we never gave you nothing free. Be great. If we could have Carrie here and Katie here to help down here, then look, I'm just not wasting on my weekends on that kind of ship. And Carrie doesn't like it. When I put it that way, I almost had to go sleep on

the couch about this, Doris. I did is that kind of fell asleep? But I was laying or thinking about you know what I'm gonna do to really make my point, I'm gonna sleep on the couch. How did that work out? I tell sleep? Do you wake up soaring feeling guilty the next morning? No? No No, No, I'm saying I was in bed thinking about storming out and going to the couch. You never made but I fell asleep. I never got to, like,

do make your point? Yeah? Have you have you heard Mitch hed Burgh's deal about why he doesn't like camping because it's too hard to express his anger When he tries to, he tries to angrily zip the tent. He's like, fuck you, we need to have a bigger conversation about Did you know that I was helping him coach my girls basketball team the last two months? Yeah? But let me ask you this. Not on the weekends. No weekend. I don't care. That's what I've told everybody. I don't

care what to do. What I've been very on the weekdays. I've been very supportive of all the kids are in swim. They swim two days a week. I'm hot and now they're like little river otters, all of them, very strong swimmers. They'll swim till they die. They will not play sports when they're eighty, they'll still be swimming. There's no way he already quit tea ball. Yeah, but he might be come by. That argument makes no sense at all. Oh, I agree, man, you shouldn't do something that they're gonna

do until they're dead. Exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying. Okay, develop some lifelong skills and skills that are developed in team sports too. We can't discount that they always they're always telling you that, They're always telling you that I want you to go, fine, Okay, I want you to go like, Okay, find a way to measure cooperation, Like,

how do you measure co operation? They? I wanted to go randomly, sample randomly, select a hundred Americans, spend a week with them, and give them a cooperation score, and then correlate it for me. Show me the correl the correlation that they're like, Oh, the top scorers all wrestled in high school. I bet that studies toughness. If you do a toughness if you were to do a toughness like tests, like mentally toughness, I think that wrestling would be up there. I think you want to have them.

Do you have a contest about who's mentally more tough out of you and me. How how do we set it up? Bill? Turn them with scientifically legitimate record contest, No, no blanking. We don't have a baseline, we don't have it bored. Yeah, this is a riveting podcast, alight. I know you guys can't see us staring at each other, but I just I like, if you, if the parents like it, I think that you should do it. I'm not against it. I think you should do it. I

don't what I'm against our wives or husbands. I'm gonna cut it right there. When I'm against, I'm against wives or husbands forcing their spouse into doing things with their kids that they hate. When the big win, they want to do a different thing with their kids. I can see if he's like, I don't want do anything. I want to sit here and be a bad parent, then I'd be like, listen, that's not gonna fly. Take him

to basketball. But if they're like, trucks loaded, dude, we're gonna camp in, we're gonna fish, we're gonna make a fire, we're gonna go look up on what's up on top of that hill. No, you can't because you gotta go to t ball. Bullshit, man, a little bullshit? At what point does it shift though, Like if as your child ages, when they when the child has a passion for something that like like what if they just really like baseball? Like I don't know, he didn't make the sacrifice. Had

to do a similar thing. The other day, I was telling my kids about the genre of jokes called dirty Dan okay, And I told him the layout of a dirty Dan joke where they're in class and they have and the teachers doing the alphabet and they do a letter and the kid has to raise his hand and then have a word that starts with the letter and then use it in a sentence. And she's like hey and run away. Dirty Dance handles up. He's like I got it, got it, I got it right. But she

can't call on him. She's dirty Dance and she knows what he's gonna say. So she's like, uh, Susie, and she's like apple, my grandmother established an apple orchard, right, and she's like beat dirty Dance, like oh right, but she's like I know I can't do that. No, he's gonna say, and she's like Billy and he's in baseball. So, as I was telling the kids. It gets to our

no one raises their hand, not even Dirty Dan. But very slowly, eventually Dirty Dan's hand goes up and she's like, well, there's nothing, there's no r there's nothing to do with our And so she finally agrees to call on Dirty Dan. And I said, I can't tell you what Dirty Dance says, though, and we agreed that when they get their learners permit to drive, I will tell them what Dirty give them the punchline. So now they like to speculate what Derry Dan says. I was like, you'll never get You'll never

get what Dan says. So when they get their learners permit, if they choose to participate in weekend sports, I will consider it, knowing that they're soon able to drive themselves. And if they make it to a championship, I will probably go the final championships. It's the doing something, one thing that screws up the thing for the whole family

that the whole family enjoys. It for sure does. Like my my brother in law is a is an ex professional athlete and his kids are like extremely into sports because David is extremely into sports in my opinion, um, but their weekends ship. Their week days are cannibalized with NonStop sporting events like it's I don't even know how they fucking manage it. It just seems like a nightmare to me. And I like sports, care about sports, but

not at this level. It's Truely, I can't tell the punch line because Phil, Phil, I'll tell the punch line and just bleep, I wipe it out the parts. Okay, so Dirty Dance slowly raises his hand and no one else raises their hand, and teachers like there's nothing. He can totally say it because there's nothing can say. It's Dirty Dangles rats big like this, and it's a double joke. It's a double joke because that's not even a sentence. Okay, uh, do you guys see that I'm a holding news. This

is where the show is starting, though. This is me eat your podcast coming at you, shirtless, severely, bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You can't predict anything presented by fur like creating proven versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear for every hunt, First life, Go farther, stay longer. I'm holding a new red dot that I gonna put on a shotgun. Um, people are gonna think this is a paid advertisement, but

this is it's not. You just have to trust me. Uh guess. With the battery life, it's a vortex what's called a spark solar red Dotice just did a big video on this the solar. Yeah, did you explain the battery life? Yeah? Do you believe it? I do believe it, but you have to understand how it works properly before you spout out, because it's not just the battery life with the conjunction. Yeah, it's a it's a red dot with This is a solar panel I gather, but it's

like not it's it's indiscernible from a northern world. I mean it's like a little teeny bigger than a normal red dot. Uh. It stays on when you turn around, it stays on for fourteen hours. If you move the gun, it comes the light comes back on. You can just turn If you were to not move your your gun for fourteen hours, it would turn off automatically in fourteen hours, So that prevents you from leaving the gun in the safe. All that's right, Well, they are a night Let me

try explain something here. Their night we went out. There's a thing that I have heard works extraordinarily well, and I can now attest you sneak up to a raccoon d entry in the dark and set up a caller and play a coon fight, which is a crazy noise. It's too raccoons. Yeah. So me and Garrett went out to a known coon d entry and Sean Weaver was saying, when you turn that thing on and get ready, and I thought he meant like, you know, kind of get ready.

We get off to a tree with a red light and that coon coller on and turn that coon fight on, and holy shit, they just came pouring out one a bore. I mean, he come out like there was no time to even think. And he's not only out of the hole, out of the tree, on the ground, coming at us, and I realized I hadn't turned the damn red dot on.

He goes back, sees us, goes back up, gets worked up all over again, and comes back down, at which point I had that you're ready for him then, And that got me being like, and I even said to Garrett, said, if you're using the red diet, yeah, I actually like pay attention to what's going on. It's like the only you know, if you like spend your whole life, you not used like turning your sight on. But and I was bitching about it, and so he put this on my desk. Where as soon as you move it and

hunting raccoon's at night. Obviously it's different because there's no sun, but hundred fifty thousand hours of runtimely ship with the battery in the sun, you buy that ye hundred fifty hours. To figure out how many days that is, you'd never be able to figure that out. You'd have to divide one hundred and fifty thousands in your head. No one's going to do that a lot days. It's somewhere around seven hundred no weight, No, seven thousand five? Correct? What

do we got? Somebody? This is amazing. Some things are just best. Two hundred and fifty days, I mean years of that. How you're getting in now? It's getting ridiculous. No, this is interesting. Seventeen point one years on one battery. Yeah, it's called the spark solar red dot. Yeah, I've got exactly.

So I want to make sure every fortnight everybody understands that that is up to by using like a lot of ambient uh, you know solar power like Arizona and late like if you're if you're only hunting coons at night, Uh, it's probably going to be closer to like thirty thousand, which is with the red dots that you know I both use the venom. That's what their battery life is. Still very impressed. Yeah, yeah, this is like how um

e vs like range. It's like four fifty miles and you're like if you're driving very slow downhill the whole way, like yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um, one more question about this thing. Uh, it's not running is it? Is it storing solar? No? Oh so it's like actually like running on solar. So it's just basically not in the battery. Said, thus the battery life is that's a surprise matter. You're you're putting a Joe blow Walgreen's coin battery in there.

I was like, how's that? Okay? Yeah, it's running m automatically, which is the cool part. Right, it's just always using the solar that's available to it if it can. Okay, now that we're really starting to show joined by Kevin Gillespie, we're arguing about this dr day. Do you like a jug or a guh, it's a guy. It's definitely not a job. I don't think that's right, like my parents or grandparents decided it. And I don't really get to weigh in because well, I've had this conversation hard times

that Clay. I don't think Clay knows what his last name is. What do you think his last name is? His last day's Newcombe? He thinks it's Newcomb. Yeah, it's not your last name, says I think that. I think that's called um regional dialect accent. But you go with a gun. I was arguing and it's and it's yeah, exactly gun, not gil not yet I had a person doing a job. Yeah, a lot of people do Gillespie j and an hard eye shut that ship down hard and then periodically people in t s a pronounce it Giuseppi.

But I'm not really sure that's like that points to larger issues. It's not really my name being the problem. I like that as a nickname though, totally. Yeah, and me and all of my Italian heritage. Yeah, you just called me just Seppi Brody Anderson. Hello, fixing to say something divisive among the dog lovers of the world. Oh, I got something for you. What we'll do it later.

That's something that came to mind the other day. Philarant Uh, just the divesters here Midwestern Chester, the midwester Seth Morrison and our very own beloved honest Hotels. Who's gonna fill in about his whole journey of discovery about heavy asked arrows? Is that a great good way to put it? Oh, we can go down that rabbit hole if you if you like, no, we'll get to it. We're gonna get to a hardcore. But we gotta do a few things up top, all right, we gotta. We gotta like speed Demon,

speed Demon through a lot of stuffs. We allow stuff to get after you guys. Ready, here's one. The Meat Podcast is smarter than doctors. That's right. You heard it right. A guy uh was eating some venison with his family eating it very rare. Whole family gets sick. He gets to thinking about the symptomology lethargy, very high fever, chills, body aches, headaches. He's like, I feel like I heard about this on Meat Eater Podcast. I think I got toxoplasmosis.

Can't scratch fever cat scrash fever calls the doctor, doctor, like, you can't get that off, dear meat, and he's like, you want to bet I learned it on the podcast. Turns out they all had toxico plasmosis. He could have died. Another guy wrote in he was in Florida, of all places, on a long run, long boat run, fishing tuna, long wet ride. Uh. All of a sudden, his body inexplicably is acting real weird and he's like, this reminds me of the story I heard about the caribou hunting guide

on meetators Close Calls audiobook. And he was able to diagnose the guy, and sure enough, the guy was having in Florida where you'd never expected. His buddy had gotten his clothes to wet and was in hypothermia so bad he became incoherent. But he recognized that. He's like, I could think, I know what's happened to this guy. Huh. So, if you just feel like you're sitting around your thumb and your arts right now, you're actually learning how to

save lives. Yeah, if you haven't, if you haven't listened to those close call stories, you're missing out. Um South Dakota. This has been going on for a while, but just a quick reminder. We keep talking about you know, it comes up all the time for prices affecting you know, meso predator populations and like raccoon and skunk prices being really low. So we're seeing this like dramatic upswing over the last few decades and meso predators and what that

means for predation on duck ness and all that. South Dakota. This is contentious, is all get out. South Dakota is opening up a bounty program. They've been talking about it. They're doing it. Kids get their own bounty season. Man, this would be great if I would love it if I was there with my kids. Kids get an exclusive headstart period starting on March one for a month. Uh raccoons, striped skunks, badgers, a possums, and red fox Ten bucks per tay, that's cool. Jimmy would be all over that. Oh,

he'd make a killing. Participants must submit the tailbone and entire tail to receive payment. Nine bucks for the tails per household. I'd like to know why it's that number. I don't know. Regular South Dakota residents April one to July one. See how they're timing it for nesting April one,

July one. Obviously very contentious. It was, I should point out just to be fair to history here it was bounty programs intended to eliminate predators that we have to thank for the fact that we eliminated the mountain lion across its range. He's destroyed the grizzly bear across the lower forty eight, removed black bears for a time across a massive part of their range. Um and modern day bounties have proven to be pretty ineffective way of dealing

with coyotes. So they're going out on a limb here. And as Sean pointed out in a recent Duck report, to do this kind of work, it has to be done in a very focused way, Like you asked me, like, do does kyote control work for fawn crops? Right? And researchers will tell you yes if. And it has to do with when you're doing it, how you're doing it. It's done with like when when done with a high level of precision, like timing wise spatially wise in a

certain way, it can have an impact. Randomly done um, not as much, but looks like that's happening if I live to state where it was happening. If I look in the state where they were kicking it around, I would be like, let's think about this for another second. But if I was living in a state where it did happen, I would and I wouldn't. I would get my kids into it. Yeah, this particular program is let's take advantage of the situation. You make a little jingle, Okay, Brodie,

quick pen raise pheasants. Why the hubbub um? In Montana, there's been a bill proposed by a politician, it's a state representative, uh HB six thirty seven, which includes some like other stuff that people are pretty fired up about. But what we're focused on here is the proposal to spend one million dollars to stock penn raised pheasants, you know, around Montana from the state prison. That's right, Um, And

that's a question. First off, they're already stock pheasants. If they didn't stock peasants, wouldn't be peasants here there from China. Well yeah, okay, yeah, but this is would be a program to go and release I don't know how many pheasants. I'm assuming a million dollars, we'll get to quite a

few of them. Um, half of the money would come from license sales and half from Pittman Robinson Robertson Fund, which is all that stuff generally works like that usually comes as matching, so that that's like money that's already been earmarked for FWP for wildlife conservation, hunting and fishing,

you know, improvements things like that access. UM, And this proposal is to take a million million bucks and and start a pen raised bird release program in Montana, like not meant to establish a population, but just to put birds on the ground. And it's being done as it's being done to boost our three efforts. UM, I'm not sure how you know releasing birds translates to recruiting more hunters in a state that has extremely good wild peasant hunting.

Extremely good pheasants are extremely good hunting for other upland species, Like there's what four species of grouse here, hungarian partridge, So there's there's all kinds of upland opportunities that already exist. So there there's some questions about whether this is a

good use of always easy and this is easy. Well, I'm saying that'd be the argument, right, But the other argument is you're paying a million dollars to feed coyotes, bobcats, boxes, raptors because these farm raised birds have no survival skills.

So a lot of people are pretty fired up because they feel like this is, you know, a waste of money, and that perhaps a better way to spend a million dollars in a better way to bring in more hunters would be to spend it on access programs or improving habitat uh where you know, for pheasant hunting that would also benefit a whole bunch of other wildlife. Maybe, like, maybe investing a million dollars is better than just flushing a million bucks down the drain with some pen raised

birds that are gonna be dead very quickly. Yeah. I also think, and we've explored this in a lot of facets, I also think, like considering COVID, I just don't think that that activities for to spend agency money or habitat money on things that have the sole purpose of growing hunter numbers seems unnecessary at the moment. Well, I think it's all it's a popular way to get something done,

right because it sounds good. Like if you if you're if you're a politician angling to get something like this done, you throw the R three thing and it's hard to like argue against. But I mean, like why not just like put a million bucks into habitat exactly which is gonna just have a because long lasting benefit for buying I could see it, Like I could definitely see it like buying a million bucks with the birds to sort of like foe hunt them, like to kind of like

have a pretend hunt. It's like it's like I see what I did for hunters kind of thing, you know. Um, But I like I'd like to clarify, like this isn't fish, wildlife and parks that like a lot of people like to drag their state game agencies through the mud for doing ship they don't agree with. This is not that. This is a bill that's being proposed that that f w P would then have to follow through on if it if it passes, and there was a comment period

that's closed and now it's whatever. Yeah, yeah, so we'll find out hopefully. Okay, moving on a little news from New Mexico. This is good news from New Mexico. This has been a thing that's going on for a long time. Has to do a stream axis. So as we all know, a lot of states whatever imagine you're on a river. Take a big river where it's true everywhere. May iagine

you're floating down the Mississippi River. Right as you're floating down the Mississippi River, you are not expecting that someone would run out of their house and come say, hey, you're on my land. You'd say, oh, no, I'm in the river. Okay. That's like an extreme version because we all, of course, everyone knows you can float down the Mississippi

River without needing to get permission from someone. But in some states, as rivers get smaller and smaller and smaller, you get to a point where you cannot float down the river or walk along the river or whatever in the water without securing permission from the landowner. Inevitably you will have landowners who don't like looking out their window and seeing some scruffy whatever, or a bunch of people on a floating trip, drink a beer, whatever, fishing. They

don't want to see it. They're like, how can I own the banks? But some dirt bag can float down through my property? And so they will always seek ways to reduce your stream access and to argue that Unlike the Mississippi River, where there's like interstate commerce happening. This isn't a commerce river. I don't want people just recreating

in front of my house. I want them out of here. Um. In New Mexico, there had always been an understood stream access rule walk in below the high water be like you stay below the high water mark, you can fish, float whatever. It's always been understood, but it hadn't been like popular pop properly codified into law. Now we've had Senator Martin Heinrich from New Mexico on this show to talk about this this issue. It's like it's sort of

in the spirit of the law in New Mexico. It's always been understood to be true, but certain well healed landowners have been pushing to narrow those definitions and lock up more streams than rivers as private property for themselves. Just the other day, New Mexico's Supreme Court ruled that the states listen to what I'm gonna stay carefully. New Mexico Supreme Court ruled that the state's game commissioned decision allowing landowners to restrict access to water that flows through

their property is unconstitutional. Shut that's a clock. That's a hard sentence to follow. The Game Commission to come out and said, yes, if a landowner wants to challenge stream access on their own private stream and make it their own private little deal, no one can float through their fish. They can push for that with the state. They can go to the state and ask for that exemption. The Supreme Court came in and just nipped that whole conversation

in the bud. They're like, your decision to let people argue that is unconstitutional. So dreams where you're hanging out right now, floating, kayaking, canoeing, rafting, waiting in the water. Um, there's been a block in the road for people looking to ah cut you off of that and and restrict

access to places you've traditionally enjoyed it. So now, Brodie, it's like Montana just but I think that had been they were trying to find a path to make it, not that they're trying to like this should just seal the deal for a while. Yeah, and the same thing had been true. I don't don't want get too like Montana centric people, but it's a great it's a great case point. Years ago it had been understood in Montana

and some people were tolling with undoing it. It comes up every so often, and some people like very deliberate. There's a great story about this because some people you know now and then you'll like push something in order

to like push it to get to the courts. Uh. When they tested it in Montana, instead of having Fisherman, they had I think it was like they had a bunch of girls from a high school go float down a river in tubes through a landowner that kept trying to get people sited for floating down what he argued was a private stream, and everybody would float the stream all the time. So like we're not gonna take it to court with Fisherman're gonna take it to court with

like high school girls. The girls getting their tubes float through, the guy calls cops, Cops give him a citation, It goes to and it comes out codified and law that like it was codified, like as everybody understood it to be true. They just wanted to like push it to a point where it was tested in the courts. As Senator Heindrich explained, it's widely understood in New Mexico that we have open stream access, but there are people always like dicking around, Well maybe we can try this, well,

maybe you can try that. When you look at this stuff, it always comes from a be Like a wealthy person buys land, they buy a luxury property, they buy some old ranch, and the first thing on their mind is getting rid of the assholes who come flow. It's always that way. Yeah, I've got I've got a well, you know, I got We've got a buddy who sells large, kind

of large ranches. And uh, those real estate agents very much against stream access because you know, it's a lot easier to sell a ranch if you can say three miles of Trout River. It sells a hell of a lot better. Um. Back to the Montana desk, we reported about how Governor Genforte in Montana recently got in trouble. It's kind of funny story. I'll relay the story, even

though we recovered it already. One day someone hands me I find a headline that says Montana's governor kills a yellow Stone wolf, and I think to myself, wow, um, that is extremely surprising that our state's governor went and a Yellowstone National Park and shot a wolf. Like you'd think he'd know better. But you read the article and in fact he didn't. It was on a ranch, it was on private property. Why was it Yelsa wolf, Because it's safe to assume that in that wolve's life it

had been on the park. And there there's a contingent of Americans and their significant to like to think that anything that spends some part of its life in mynd in Yelsa National Park becomes yellow Stones X, and therefore we should enjoy this sort of like de facto protection no matter where it goes, like it carries with it this sort of like this specific blessing and should be preserved forever. So Montana's Governor Greg Jane four to in the news again. This time again he's made, uh what

would appear to be a horrible mistake. Yani has the headline pulled up. Here's a headline. It's from the Climate and Environment Desk, oddly Washington Post Washington Posts Climate and Environment Desk. The headline is hounds chased a Yellowstone National Park mountain lion into a tree. Then Montana Governor Greg Ganforte shot it. Except not he was hunting on national forest land, not in the park. It's like except not the like I I don't like to say it, because

it became such thing like the fake news ship. It's like, I'm sorry, Like I'm not I don't run around the fake news fake news, but you have to have some sympathy for people who run around being fake news fake news because it's just not true. It's not true at all. It's like, how can you say that? Yeah, listen, and I am one that usually will air on the side of a liberal news source, and I will personally trust

it more. Yeah, and and people like this, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna call this guy out by his name. You can go find out who wrote it. But it's just like, man, like you're eroting my trust in like what I figured it should be, like good journalism from like you know, the um key journalistic entities of our country, and yet here he is just like like I when I ask the guy, I wish he would come on the podcast and just be like, why did you write this? What was your goal here? Why did you word it

the way you worded it? But yeah, well that's the beginning. But then the rest of it is like what's the outcome of your article? Like what like are you just an anti hunter or you just an anti Greg? There's also so much that's loaded into that hounds chase cat up tree as though that doesn't happen as part of cat hunting or using houndste there's this you mean it, there's this strong situation that something naughty was going on, and then it goes on to talk about how rare.

Then they do a disservice by time, like they get like park officials to talk about how rare mountain lion sighting is. There are a lot of things that are i u c N species of least concern, like globally categorized by a global Wildlife organization as a species of least concern that you don't lay eyes on because of myriad reasons. How many martins do you see? Most people will go their entire life and never lay eyes on the martin. Why because they're out at night and they're secretive.

They don't even know they exist i u c N species of least concerned. But the whole like the condemning part about this article is that these these jokers from the park don't see that many lions. Tell them what you heard from actual park biologist Yohni. Why might they not be seeing a lot of lions in the park. Well,

it wasn't from park biologists. It was from hound handlers that helped park biologists that are helping right now with the probably the study that is they're talking about in this article right they've got collared mountain lions and these hound handlers help them catch collar recatch when the collars go down, etcetera, etcetera. So they're a big part of

this study. But and you can read about this in a wonderful article that was written on the meter UH website by Jordan Stiller's titled study show mounta Lions have Unexpected predator where they're basically showing saying that like mount lion numbers have dropped by half and like the last ten years in the park because wolves not only do they kill in um, they don't think they kill them to eat them, but they just kill them because they're

like competition mountain lion kittens. But that because they're um displacing the elk out of where they used to be, where they accessible by mountain lions being like more in the mountains in forested areas, pushing them out into more open areas where cats do not like to spend time and and don't go um that the cats are having a much harder time, you know, finding and and and then killing their prey. Um. On top of that, the wolves steal the kills that they made, so they're getting

hit like three ways. They're getting at, their foods, getting displaced, and their food is getting stolen exactly by the wolves, which leads me to believe I want to clarify to like, just like is your point out? I want to clarify too. I don't agree with everything that our governor does. I don't think this has anything to do with that. It's just a way that stuff gets reported. That's maddening to me.

And it's like again and again and again. But you take this thing with like how mountain lion numbers have gone down as wolves. I'm not and I'm not saying I support wolves on the landscape. I'm not anti wolf. But why didn't this person write an article when when G and four take killed a wolf? Why didn't he write an article about what a nice thing he did for mountain lions? Or could you could have made a salacious headline, you could have taken as many liberties and

said uh. Montana's Governor Greg Ganforte saves many Yellowstone National Park mountain lions and he'd like, oh, that's interesting, and he'd really be like, oh, he killed a wolf. I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what though, he should consider it, like maybe not shooting collared animals, like because because the attention it draws, sure, and like he could have walked up to that line and said he's got

a collar on it. Maybe I should just let that one go for science purposes, like you know, and then go find another line, like I'm just playing devil, right. They immediately reported, they immediately called a game warden. Yeah, you'll point this out too. Here's why you don't really know that because remember when Florida was doing a mortality study on deer and he had a bunch of deer run around with collars. It was a mortality study and the state was trying to implore people, don't shoot it

cause it has a collar. Don't not shoot it because it has a collar. I'm trying to find out what kills stuff. Just try to act normal. I'm just saying, if you're poking around near the borders of Yellowstone National Park and there's a wolf for a line with a collar, and you're the governor, yeah, I could see. I would personally, it would just depend on a lot of things unless I knew what the collering project was all about. And

I don't know. I don't know what they do because a lot of times the stuff that's wearing a collar and it's not good anymore, they don't even care. It's like it's a collar from years ago. They haven't they haven't retranked it to pull the collar or putt new batteries that I don't know enough about it. I personally, I've said a thousand times on this podcast at least three Um, I'm I like a banded duck more than

the next guy. But I would not shoot a banded big game animal with a collar on it because it would feel like touched. It wouldn't feel it would feel like it had already been. Uh, it was like less magical and wild. So if you were called in a big six point bowl and the Missouri River breaks and he's standing there broadside with your bow, you wouldn't shoot him and he had if he had a caller on it. Big bull sixty, Yeah, unless three of them and one

had a collar and the bigger one didn't. My thing is like, I don't know, there's a lot of things that are like even cheap are introduced, and they've been reintroduced, reintroduced. Excuse me, um, you know, like in that population has been touched in a way. We're influencing everything basically humans. I think, just like like you said, just being normal and doing what you would normally do when you you know,

when you're hunting. Not letting that influence too much because that study at the very point that study that they're putting collars on they want to see how many are killed by hunters. We don't know that what you think right, Well, in the case of this Florida dear thing, I don't know why this thing had a Colorado. It might have been a mortality study. If it's a mortality study, um, and it was a big time, then whoever put that collar on it, it's probably glad. They probably got their

collar back now they know. If it was some other study, they might be like, damn it, it's expensive to get the collars out. We got the collar out. But in the case in my sheep hunt, like I had multiple people that we're working on these this herd that we're

calling them and had just recently collared them. So the study had just kicked off, and they very very nicely but implored me not to shoot at one with the collar on it because just because of the hours it had taken to get all that worked on, the money invested in it, and in the end they're like, look, it's your tag, it's not a lead, have at it. But it would be great if you shot one without

a collar. It's very species dependent to where you're at. Yeah, yeah, I feel like this is this is in my mind, it's a relevant story because it's like you have a person, like you have a person he's in a high profile position, you have he there's a person that enjoys going hunting,

goes out and does something and nothing happens. Like he goes out and does something like according to law and as set up by the Game Commission, you know, as enforced by the Montana state thing, and it has to be reported upon it as though you did something wrong. And the wolf thing, it was reported that he did something wrong, but it was reported like he tried. If you get a normal trapping license in Montana, it's just

an over the counter transaction. If you're gonna trap wolves, you need to go online and take a free you watch this free online video. He hadn't watched the he hadn't done the online video, the Wolf certification online video. There's no fine for it. It's a free video. He hadn't watched the video was told to go watch the video. You'd have thought, you know, I thought it was presented. You thought there had been like some heinous violation. There

was a minor violation. And then if you went and people are like shocked at the how low the punishment was. But then the wardens are like, no, the punishment is perfectly in keeping with what we do. When you don't watch the video, you gonta watch the video. I thought you couldn't get it tag Now, like when you're getting those licenses without doing like you gotta do that video. You have to get Wolf vetano that hasn't gone to

effect yet. You'd have to get a Wolf validation. You get the Wolf validation by doing the free online thing. The guy had not done the online thing, which is against the law, and was called out for such in this case. And I'm not saying like, I'm not serious to be like he should not have watched the video. Of course he should have watched the video. And it's fair to point it out, but in this case, nothing happened,

and it's this thing. It's like it's like the thing that like it's like a thing coming from the media where in certain circles, like if it involves Yellowstone and if it involves wildlife, it's just this this, this idea that seems to be growing and spreading that, um, while the state management of wildlife is bad and naughty and it should be managed by the National Park Service. I don't even know if people understand that. I mean, I

totally agree with Yanni. I don't even I don't even know if people understand it to that extent, and they've made such a nuanced argument in their mind. I think sadly, there's it's it's not even that it's misleading and biased. It's like I would I would really hope that various media sources can cover information like this in a more

educational way. So, for example, same story NBC News Tim Fitzimmons, the headline is Montana Governor Gen Forte hunts kills National Park Service tract mountain lions, and then you can go through his article, um, and it just seems to serve up information that is educational I don't even think that that that that headline doesn't bother me. There's a there's a there's an extra grind, but at least it's like, yeah, that's I would give him like a high, a much

higher fairness and headlines. Right, It's like, what is information being relayed versus what is a headline whose language um is just kind of twists or has a backstory or kind of colors or ship something in a way it has a purpose? Right? What else pisses me off about it? Now? I mean to go on all night about it. Day it's just lit like night. Like I said, we have a lighting issue. It's all lamplet in here. I'm getting like thirst for beer. It's not beard feels like a board,

don't night so um. He also says that it prompting an outcry among environmentalists. Those aren't environmentalists. What you're talking about our animal rights activists. And I would really appreciate people not confuse those two things they have overlap. They're not the same thing. Not the same thing. No, no,

but listen, listen, I think we we do. I would like to just point out that out of all the critters in this lovely state, that we reside in the hunt in Uh, there's probably none other that are managed more than mountain lions. Oh um. Yeah, it's so much so that people don't even bother because they can't understand the regulatory structure. Body. I mean, every morning that I go out to like even just go look for tracks, I'm gonna check the quota in the region that I'm

gonna go in and see where it's at. Some of them are like a total quota where it's like, yeah, ten total can be killed. That's a high one. It's probably more like, you know, between five and seven and most but some of them are like, oh it's seven, but only three can be females. Some of them is completely opposite where it's seven but only four can be males. And like you've really got to know what's going on. They're they're almost managing them like by the hour or

the day like that closely. You know, they're keeping such a close eye on them. Yeah, whereas deer you got a damn gas station by a deer license. Yeah, yeah, even like bears, you know over the counter tag here. You know, there's like one small place in Montana where there's a quota and they should especially not be hacking on I don't mean to be like, oh, like pro Montana, I don't know. I guess I don't mind. But here's the thing they should be hacking on this day, because

there's a lot of states to still run lion. They still manage lions as vermin Texas. I think they still manage lions like they have like no management plan on lions. They still got like kill them all that God sort

them out attitude. In this state for decade just managed them as it like a tightly managed big game animal, which gives which is like way better for if you if you like mountain lions and you like what I could be like hunting lions, like seeing lions, I would applaud a state that runs them like a big game animal, not a state that runs them like coyotes. In a lot of places in the Southwest still treat them with about the same they treat with the same matterite they

treat coyotes. They don't track it, they don't know what's going on. Huge seasons used to be able to shoot like a female with kids. Here's here's where it all comes back around. Here's where it all comes back around. I'm gonna get to that story because it's a good one. You're gonna love my mountain lion story. But it all

comes back around too. If we didn't have hound handlers that were interested in in mountain lions, they're probably there, maybe wouldn't be any not only in Montana, but in the park itself, because as we heard from Jim Williams, go and listen to the podcast, I love it. It's one of my favorites. Number of the puma Jim Williams, who worked for Montana Sate for a long time, maybe one of the world's leading exactly, might not be anybody that's messed around with cats of all kinds more than

he has. He said it in the podcast. If it wasn't for the hound handlers of Montana, that probably wouldn't be cats here. Get lucky enough to see one in the park or outside of the park or wherever. Thank those people that every now and then chase the hounds chase went into a tree, and then and then someone comes and kills it. More times than not they get chased into a tree, everybody looks at it, takes a picture,

and everybody walks away. Uh. To paraphrase the guests you're talking about he's not a lion hunter, but the paraphrase, but he said, he's like basically, I tread real light when it comes to hack and on Houndsman, because it was Houndsman that were sounding the alarm a long time ago about the need to manage mountain lions and get out of the business of bounty hunting. I'm poison and I'm killing them. They were the ones that wanted up.

They were the ones saying, man, we gotta get grip on the program and protect lions for for for punishment. For this guy having such a dumb headline, he should he Probably the thing is he didn't write that headline. Whoever did the headline, they should be tasked to write an article for every elk, every one of Yellowstones elk that gets killed legally in Montana every year. He get writers cramped and then he spent the rest of his life just writing articles about people shooting legal elk. Yeah,

every day of the season. He had to be like, hundreds of Yellowstone elk killed over in Cody, Wyoming. There just needs to be a little bit more education in, you know, among those folks writing headlines from the environmental and climate desk. Yeah, well that makes me bad because I'm an environmentalist. Uh, I self identify as an environmentalist, and I just I just it just kills me to see this frame in that way. All right, speaking of

mountain lions, Yohnning. Now we're digging in on Johnny here. Let me let me start with a Here's I want to start with this question? Has play Phil play the Mingus song Trampled by Turtles inga has Mingus? Um, gimme Mingus is current resume. He's currently been under approximately a dozen ten to a dozen if you count all all of them. But yeah, roughly a dozen trees with mountain lions in them, which means you have Yeah, that's pretty

that's great. Now when you start to you know, purposely pursue it, you know, more often than just once when you just were making a show about it with your buddy, then yeah, you start to see him more. Are you beyond the holy shit? It's the tree face a little bit, but not too much, not too much. Yeah, you still get like like like by god. Yeah, but I would say that the reason being that I don't quite you know, I'm not as fascinated by that line as much anymore

is because the attention of my dog. My dog's taking my attention because I'm there. I'm like, oh my god, my dog's there at the bottom of that tree. Yeah, and he's like, no, he like sees the line, he's barking the line. He's doing what he's supposed to be doing. And but no, I always still take a few quite

a few minutes to sit there and awe. When you get to see one sitting in a tree, it's pretty Specially when I saw one, it was like so snowy, you know, and like for days you're just looking at green and white timber and snow never ending expanses, and there's the thing, like the most alive, reddish brownish thing that like has ever existed on a limb, and it just is burned in my mind. Yeah, you're talking about

this is from the Idahome hunt. Yeah, just like there's a lions standard in that tree and I can look at it for as long as I want. No, I mean, and just we just heard how rare and elusive they are from uh, you know, the prior thing we just talked about. And you know, the only guy I know it's seen a whole bunch of lions. And it's not a hound hunter doesn't really do that much, is Jay Scott.

But that's because he sits behind giant binoculars, right for like, you know how many hours are in a year, Broady, and he spent a lot of a lot of hours just glass and glass and glass, and and that's how I had seen two of the three mount lions. I think I had seen three before I started doing hound hunting, and two or three binoculars. One was one just you know, jumping across the road in the headlights. One came up to your turkey hunt. Oh I know, but that was

after I started, you know how hot. But yeah, you just don't get to see him otherwise, you know, it's a special deal. So, uh, your dog now knows that that's what it's that at the end of this trail. Is that thing in a tree? Correct? But is it participating in the catch? It's a spectator? Um, my friends and mentors tell me that he is. I'm still novice enough for it. I think someone us have a hard

time but looking at the GPS and actually knowing. But like being with Bart George, being with uh our buddy Jake, like they're always like Oh yeah, Mingus is right there. He might have not been the first dog of the tree, but he was there two seconds later. You know, like he knows what's up, he's doing in the job. And I think that I just and that's why hopefully in the next week or two, I'm gonna do a little bit of hunting, just he and I because that's we're

sort of at this place. For me to answer this question, I need to go out there find the track for myself, which is a big thing that I haven't yet to even do, is just like find one identify as a lion, and then just put Mingus on it, and then just the two of us go and do it and see what happens in the area that's closed. When there's a unit that's closed because of quota, can you run? Correct? You still can't? You can still run? Oh yeah until April. I think it's four. Uh do do like, do the

people around you if if Mingus was never gonna make it? Um? Well, the people around you say that, yeah, But I think that most people would experience hounds, hound handlers would tell you that it's not the dog, it's just that you haven't done enough work with a dog. They all have it in him. And the more I've done this, I've heard about like little uh weener dogs that run tracks.

I've heard about labs that have been on a whole bunch of mountain lion tracks and in trees, like you need to teach the dog what you wanted to do. They all have these amazing noses and like you put the time in and it's gonna happen. Jay keeps telling me it takes twenty trees to have like a finished dog. When when you when your dog has been to twenty mountain lion trees, like that dog, at that point you're

gonna say either he's got it or he doesn't. Right after twenty tracks and trees, so he's got eight more and then you might be out digging a hole out back. I don't think. Well, let me ask you this though, is it fair to say that, like, because you have kids and stuff, you were gonna get a dog, right and you got out of pound puppy and it was

a hound. Knowing what you now know, do you wish you'd just gone and bought like some you know, pedigree line like it's eighteen grandfathers were all famous lion hounds no, no, I don't. I don't want to say it's cheating, but like I've enjoyed the journey, you know, with with Mingus and so, and I don't know if I would have been able to appreciate it. You know, what's the good? What's the real good? Mountain lion, pedigreed puppy go for like just I have no idea, but I bet you

could easily spend a thousand bucks. Oh yeah, bird dogs you know, like and plus man, if you'd got one of those, you'd have had such high expectations. And that's what the dog was for, Like, you know, it's everything's like Meingus exceeds expectations every day. Um say, not that I think this to happen at all, but say, for whatever reason, you get the twenty trees and he's just

like not doing it. You know, you're gonna put him back on the couch with the girls and get another hand, another one possibly, yeah, and then not going to go down to the pound again. No no, no, no, then I would be mining all my best resources. I would to go smaller. That's I mean, we love Megus in our house, but he's an eighty pound big boy and uh, you could have. You can have two or three hounds

that fit into the same package. Yeah, you know, most dogs, well, to know what's going on in the counter, they got to kind of walk with their nose up and then kind of like that dog just looks. He kind of has to just turn his head sideways a little bit and that gets in the angles. Oh, that's what's on the counter. But no, the story I've been meaning to tell you, it's kind of funny, is over the holidays. Uh, my sister and her family were visiting with four kids.

My mom was visiting, so we're quite the full house. And a couple of days we went up to Disneyland also known as h Bridger Ski Hill up there at Bridger Canyon, and uh, one day as we're leaving, right around I don't know, three thirty four, we started getting text from my mom and I'm not even getting them.

They're coming. I'm reading. I'm getting the information from like my sister and my mom and my wife, and they're like, yeah, your mom's saying that in the course of the day, she's seen like a fox, a raccoon, And now there's a couple of links trying to climb the fence to get into where the turkeys and chickens are. I'm like, holy sh it's quite them almost moved my house. Look look at us. We're up here being dumbass, is just skiing. We could have been at home, you know, seeing how

it's amazing wildlife. So, you know, I finally get my mom on the phone. I'm like, okay, tell me exactly. She's like, no, I'm for sure they had you know. She's just driving like rings on the tail of one animal. I'm like, okay, it could have been a coon, you know, and then uh this other a warm days Uh no, no it was cold. Um, but the other animals, I said, describe the links to me? Said spots. She said, no, spots. How long was the tail? And she's like, you know,

a foot or two? Like it sounds like a small lion, maybe more than likely. So she's like, well, yeah, Mingus and I were out there and he didn't even run after him, like Vengus got knocked down a note. So anyhow, we get home and uh, I like, I double check again with my mom where everything was. I'm like, okay,

I'm gonna go look for tracks. So I go out there with Mingus and going towards the chicken coop, and in like seconds, Mingus is off like kind of where you where we cut down that tree, not the two cheese together, but the single. He's off behind the garage there down the hill, um cutting loose like banging. I'm like, what the hell is I don't even make it to look for t acts. I walk over there and yeah, there's like a twenty pound mountain lion up in the tree. Yeah.

Turns out it was a pair. And now I don't know what happened, like little guys, little guys, But why did he want to chase him? The thing is is I wasn't there, so I can't for sure tell you that Mingus saw two small mountain lions and then just stood there. Maybe he didn't because I wasn't there. He didn't like think that that was the thing to do. It just doesn't seem right because that dog usually cuts out of the house like chasing after something before he's

even seen it, you know. Uh. But anyway, yeah, and I can't I don't know. I went to get a light so we could show everybody mounta lion, because I mean, you could just stand next to the garage and see this cat in the tree, and as I'm gone, either that lion gets down and runs into another tree, or there's a because there ends up being too late. Like in the next couple of days, we see two small, you know, kittens, but mingus trees another cat like a hundred yards away on that same hillside. So in one

night he got two trees. Are those counted within the dozen? Uh? Yeah? Um, you think they got orphaned? Yeah? I think so, yeah, and whether it's by We were trying to see if a female had been killed on the quota like recently. Um, and I obviously called the game one to see, hey, like what should I do about this? And he pretty much just said, man, you gotta like don't take any chances, Like if you feel like you want to put them down, put them down and just shoot him. We didn't want

to do that. We're hoping that, you know, if they got too crazy and we're trying to mess around, well, yeah, because they hung out for like another four or thirty six hours, you know, like we saw him I think two or three more times, and I was definitely getting to the point where I had a rifle at the ready and I was kind of saying like if they show up again, like I'm just gonna shoot him, you know. And uh, And they had no interest in coming out and getting them. They just like let it play out

like whatever. Well they'd I'd say, if you want us to come and take care of him, we will. But that's what taking care of would look like. Yeah, they'd euthanize them. Ah but yeah, either mom got killed by a hunter, she could have gotten struck by a car. Sometimes they'll leave I found out that they'll leave the kittens for days while they're out hunting. Then once they make the kill, they go get the kittens and then

go back to the kill. Um, so we're hoping, yeah, maybe Mom will show back up in the next couple of days. But unfortunately for those two kittens, they went up and over the ridge and found themselves under someone else's deck. Those people called the game warr and he came and youthanized him. Oh really, how did you hear that? Oh he'd called into too. He called me back just to give me the update. The warden did huh did they Did they show like any fear you guys at all?

Or Oh? Yeah, I mean they would when you went out there they'd walk away they know they weren't spotted. But yeah, so uh, that's kind of a fun little mangus cat story. We can talk about hunting cats to with Jake, but it's we didn't really get to do a lot of cat hunting. It's not a great hunting story. I'm curious other than other than catching that big old bobcat, which is like a big old bobcat, big old bobcat side, No, have you seen that little uh viral video of big

old bobcat and the kid saying big old bobcat. Nobody like YouTube, Just google it and it'll come up. It's keep saying big old bobcat. Yeah, it's gonna go viral now. I think I think it already has. But yeah, the kids like, I don't even know if he has a be begun. He might just have a stick. And he sort of plays like he's shooting his own house cat. And he goes pee pee and he throws the stick aside, grabs a bobcat who's ever running the phone. It's like,

what you got there? He's like no, After he does the shoot and he's like, that's what I'm talking about. Whole sun and it's like a four year old. He throws a stick aside, puts the cat up on his shoulder and goes got me. He's like, what do you got? You got big old? I got to play it here? Thank you. I'm coming down. What you got there? He's holding als cat. Oh man, big old bob cat. Um. Yeah.

So Jake and I went hunted made an episode hunt lions in Montana and uh we cut tracks unfortunately where the tracks were like it sometimes happens when you're filming on land that we didn't even know we could have a hunted, so we didn't try to get the film permit for it. And uh we also had tracks going into private and we try to get private access and it just didn't pan out. So we didn't really get

to run any lions on the trip. But we did get to run this one bobcat track and unfortunately Mangus didn't run that one because it was very deep snow, and Jake figured we needed all the advantage we could get. And bobcats, unlike lions, tend to be a lot more evasive and they actually when they know they're being pursued by dogs. Um. And this is according to hounds people that I talked to they actually start to make evasive maneuvers,

and I've seen it even with Mangus. The one time we did a Bobcat, just he and I had a bobcat go into a tree and then leap so far out of that tree into the nearby snow that it took me, you know, five minutes of wandering around to kind of put two and two together, because I saw the tracks going into the tree, but there were no tracks leaving the tree, and I could see the whole tree.

I'm like, where's the bobcat? And then you know, five minutes later, I could I see like what looks like a little greater you know, like twenty some feet away, and walk over there and there's the beginning of the track again. Right. So there's an example of like what they might do. Jake's dogs, two of them run silent on track, meaning like Mangus when he's on track every ten to thirty seconds. Yeah, and I like that. I

like that silent killer dog idea many well. Back in the day before GPS collars, you had to have at least one dog that that was loud on trail because you had to stay with you. There's no way to stay with your dogs you don't know where, Yeah, exactly. So now you can have that because you can always see where they are via GPS collars. Yeah that's a

good point, man, Like in the old days. Yeah, yeah, you had to be here, which I for whatever reason, I'm a little bit drawn towards that, and I'm silent killers no, no, no, I'm drawn towards for some reason, even though I've never done it, I'm nostalgic for or

like having to run. And maybe it's just because I like the physical aspect of like running around in the hills and having to like purposely do physical ship on this hunt, which would be like, yeah, you gotta stay with the dogs, you gotta keep them in earshot at all times. But I've mentioned it to both Clay and Jake. We've been doing it a long time and they did it prior to GPS, and they're like, na, not interested.

They like it just fine. Like this, Um, now when you get uh, are they when you go to run a bobcat? Um? Are they picking? They're looking for a big bobcat? Do they do they pass up small bobcat tracks? There's like any bobcat? Um? I think it would depend um. But yeah, I don't think that Jake likes to kill like small bobcats that are like the size of a house cat, so he he looks for a large track. Yeah,

he probably would if he has time. I think he'd probably still run the bomb cat because I think it's like really good training because if your dog can run a bobcat, they can just about run anything. Um, So they'll probably still run it and then just you know, walk up to the tree, say hi and walk away. You know what my theory is about that bobcat dog thing, um, because on one hand, to be like, well, how would

they ever develop the ability to evade hound dogs? But it has to be something with just the fact that all their interactions with Kyle Wits and wolves for sure, like like they got like a they get trailed by canines and have developed ways to elude a canine trailing them. It's like a thing you have to know or else you're screwed. Um. And so because the snow it was like i mean literally you know, crushed aways deep on us, the bobcat is specifically made to walk on top of

that stuff, right with giant pause. These dogs are not. And so if that bobcat gets a head start, he or she can just take their time, you know, do figure eights, climbed trees, do whatever they want to do, and the dogs are gonna be post holing and they're never gonna catch up to it or put enough pressure

on it to put it up into a tree. So he feels if you put silent dogs in there, when the bobcat knows that it's being trailed, it's the dogs are seeing it and they can immediately put that pressure on it and boom, it goes right into a tree. Like there is no you know, there's no real chase on the snow. And then you don't like to turn out at night, right, but you kind of want to get going. You're not allowed to chase at night, or you can't chase him, at least on in Montana. You

have to wait until the same thing. It's like legal shooting hours. You can't turn out until half an hour before sunrise. Oh, I didn't know that, So that's like, okay, I think there was some practical reason. Why is that for lions specifically? Yeah, it could be different for bobcats. I'd have to check the REGs. But also you can't it's not just the shooting, it's the turning out. You have to turn out doing legal light. Oh, that explains a lot would be a dirty trick. Yeah, and listen, man,

this bobcat was so special. I've heard from a multiple people that have pursued bobcats for you know, half their lives that have never gotten a bobcat like this. Like Jimmy Miller, who you know as a whole pile of bobcat hides in his house, used to trap him a lot in Colorado, which produces a lot of what he calls Lynx grade cats. He's like, I've never seen one like that. He's like, that is a very very very

special cat. You're talking about it. Yeah, and the size, but you have to have like a belly that goes like almost up onto its size and the spots go like down the insides of its legs. Um, i'd cats, good cats. I've been looking at the stuff. Good cats are still getting over Some good cats are still getting over a thousand bucks this year. What are you gonna do with that thing? I'm gonna make it into a John Hayes tax during me soft pillow? No nice? Oh yeah,

that'll be cool. No, I want I've never done any tax for me. This will be my first one ever, and I want something that is very uh approachable and like can be handled. You know, I don't know if anybody's going to actually take a nap on it and use it as Yeah I might, but like I wanted when kids come over, I wanted to be like, I'm not worried about it getting messed up. Like if in ten years it's like warn ragged from kids and people handling it, I'll consider it a win and I'll, you know,

go make another one. Right. I'm a little jealous that. I mean to be totally honestly, I'm a little jealous that Bobcat. What would you do with it? He had it wall hanger tanying it and just put up the hide trapper style. What about mingus? He's gonna be around that thing? Yeah don't. Dogs don't care. Dogs don't. I found that dogs don't like chewt that like our dog likes everything, but it doesn't like chewing tan hides. I

think it just smells like chemical. That's exact opposite. Like he's obsessed with this access deer hide in my house. Like we just basically had to give it to him. Yeah, just keep taking it, like dragging it to his spot like our dog. Won't you look at it? Man, you'd rather chew rags out in the garage. Yeah. Like I literally was like, well, I guess I gotta get another

access deer hides. Yeah, We've got a coon hide and like a couple of coyotes and a fox and he's never touched those, so I'm sure when we first bring it in and that thing looks pretty real like a's staring at him, he's probably gonna have a little reaction. Okay, let's get into this Neil guy deal. Okay, now, hundred guy one time you were there, ye uh, the whole conversation around. We should first off, do you want to do like a little Yannie book report about what Neil

guy are the honest eagle on the case we ken? Yeah, if you think that would be good. Real quick, real quick introduction. Nil Ah, it's a uh antelope species. It's best known for coming from India, although they it's found all over like the southern part of the Asian continent.

Ah a little bit of fame in that there's like more of them in Texas now than there is in India probably depending on you know, sex and maturity, anywhere from three hundred I mean obviously calves can be little, but adults probably three hundred to five fifty, maybe six hundred on a on a really big mature bowl. Uh. There's stories of a thousand pound nil guy and just like there are a thousand pounds uh, you know bulls running around Montana, which I don't think that happens that often. Um,

but yeah, um known to be very good eating. Uh for whatever reason, out of all the exotics in uh Texas, it's sort of like sits on on a pedestal above the rest, which I don't really understand the same ranch that we've been on ranches even say it like down here it's like cattle or for selling nil guy for eating. And it's because even though they're an antelope quote unquote, they're actually like a member of the same there a

bovine species like cow like cattle are. So it really has to do with like the taste preference of especially of Americans who like beef, who like cattle flavored animals, and so that's why they're so much better. But the trophy is very highly sought after. Two for sure, for some reason, which is interesting because you know it's not you wouldn't. I wouldn't originally think that would be a huge trophy for folks, just because of the fact that, yeah,

it's not like it has big horns on it. And right next to it is standing a cemetery tar Orcs which four horns on it, all curved and crazy looking, and there's something like the euro Mounts Freedom Mounts. Uh there's something rather satanic looking about Yeah, for sure. They definitely have the devil horn thing going on. For Yeah, I can't wait to like a heavy metal album cover

or something. Man. Uh, we were we covered that. We were we covered Niogai really heavy during that crazy ass Southern Arctic blast winters ago because they were I mean thousands and thousands and thousands froze to death. They just can't cope. Yeah, a little freezing weather. Did you see any like impacts from that? No? No, I think that they're um high fecundity, and uh, either they bounced back or they just weren't that that big of a die off.

They also felt that because they have um low fence on three sides of that ranch that any animals that wanted to leave could leave and maybe did and then came back. Um, they've had that happen with other species to when there's been weather events or like smoke or something that they feel like animals just like leaving the black. Um. So when we that was a good little intro when we hunted him. There's a lot about Uh, there's a lot about they can really take a hit. Um, you

gotta be very careful to try to drop them. Once they get in the in the brush, you're gonna lose them. They don't bleed their hearts in a weird place for a lot of that. Yeah, you're gonna lose him. You don't do everything exactly right if you go online. And that was one of the reasons we went to hunt them on this particular trip was that it's kind of known as the toughest animal in the lower forty eight to take down. Super tough hide soaks up the lead.

Like if you don't kill him out in the open, they run into the brush, you're never gonna find him. He's got like quick clot flowing through his veins totally. Um. And so yeah, in this episode that I went down there to shoot, I did with a fella by name of Troy Fowler. You can find him on YouTube and Instagram as the Ranch Ferry. What does that mean? The rain? Right? Yeah? I I told him multiple times. I said, buddy, it's ballsy to like and and and that's a nickname that

he gave himself. To give yourself a nickname that has ferry included. You know, um, didn't we have this conversation. Yeah, we're no strangers to double on tondres. You're going to explain that to me? Well, people are good? Do you get call it me an eater? Right? No, explain double atendra? Oh me saying something like, I'm trying to think of a good double entendre. Um. Uh do you think it? One feels good at this kind of stuff? It has

double meaning. It has double meaning so often in a sexy way, and one of the meeting one of the meetings meanings is usually a little risque or yeah, sexy, right, So Ranch Ferry. You could be like it's a person that brings magical gifts to ranches, or you could be that it's a derogatory term of like a derogatory term for someone of a particular persuasion who's residing at a ranch. Uh. He is neither of those. Um, so it's a triple. He came up with a ranch faery kind of like

at home sometimes range ranche. Then I started thinking it was range, which made more sense. But go on his family. I think actually he married into it and married into a big family that owns I can't remember how big the ranches, but they own a own a small ranch in Texas, and um, they're kind of like at your house sometimes where where the kids might be like, wow, the house is always clean. I didn't clean it. How

does it? How does it stay clean? You're like, well, when you go to bed, he little ship, I stay up and do all the dishes and clean, run around for thirty minutes yourself in the ranch ferry or the house faery cleans it all up. So he sort of has assumed the role on that ranch as when everybody else leaves and the good times are over, but the a t V is not running anymore and the one blind got knocked over by the windstorm and the pipes froze.

He fixes everything, the unseen person taking care of every I would never guess that. So yeah, when you come back, everything's fixed. Who did it? The ranch ferry I'm gonna start being the shack ferry or not me. I'm gonna find one. You need to find one. It's gonna say. If you're gonna do that, why don't you stop him? Mind that very shock freaking take care of too. Exactly exactly so, uh he volunteers with UM the Ashby Foundation.

We had on the podcast a while back at Ashby and we talked all about you know, his Uh, I get the connection though about his you know principles of what makes the best most efficient killing arrow and broadhead. It might not be the most fun arrow to shoot on league night. Nope, that's right because they're heavy, UM and they have you know, two bladed broadheads which sometimes tend to plane in the air more than uh, you know, maybe a smaller broadhead and whatever. So layout really like

just leave the neo gut thing for a minute. Sure, Layout, the UM just do not not a recap at Ashby, but that that episode, but layout sort of the emerging conflict like everything got light, like everything got light and fast, and it was celebrated like how fast, how flat? Yeah, probably in like the early two thousand's UM, I believe it was like graphite. Actually it was before carbon like, and I saw it as a hunting guide. It was a heavy illumina arrows, but nobody thought they were heavy

illuminate arrows. They were just alumina ary, that's what they were. And it was either that or would arrows well, graphite shows up and all of a sudden people started getting very high speeds of arrows. I remember being as like a hunting guide. We would shoot a lot mid mid day when we're not in the woods, and all of a sudden, guys started showing up with rigs where when they shot, you didn't even see the arrow and flight. It would just be like and then the arrowould be

a peer and the targets like holy shit, you know. Well, um, those also came around, came along with like really light broadheads. Um. And even though they were super flat shooting and like your pin gaps were super tight and you could you know, they just don't have a lot of trajectory. Um. We immediately saw it on Elk where we were getting poor penetration, and for a long time we actually figured that we

just had bad hunters. We just were like these guys like aren't practicing enough, They're not hitting him in the right spots and we never really thought we never really put it on the the equipment, you know. But uh, like I can vividly remember more like a half dozen elk that were shot in the shoulder and you'd get like three or four or five inches of penetration and you see him run off in the arrow would fall

out and you wouldn't even bothers. I like, shot elk hit the shoulder one time and as it ran off, the air was flopping and it was just like like slightly lodged into the muscle. You know, it's probably like a hundred things I did wrong, but yeah, I remember that it was like a thing like damn, yeah, you think it would well? And even I think that you were trying to think were you shooting those full metal jackets I got for you on that Blue Mountain hunt

that we did in Washington. You were so you had a fairly heavier arrow. I don't know what it was at the time. Um probably didn't have his high of foc Maybe it's like if I had to build you an arrow now. And again I don't know what broad haad you had, but like that bowl didn't go the G five Montechi Montech that arrow only went probably halfway into that animal. Right in the video you could see

half an arrow kind of hanging out. Um. Anyway, So yeah, we've had this thing where everybody went super fast, super light and would brag about speeds. Yes, exactly, And a lot of people liked it for white tail hunting because they figured it's a way to get around on the white tail um ducking or reacting to the sound of the string. Which I'll tell you funny story about that can I don't want to you don't want to name names here, but someone was a friend of mine was

not in this room, no no, no building. He was out with a rancher and the ranchers showing him around his place for deer hunting, and he's like talking about having a famous bow hunter. Um. I recently heard this story too. And the bow hunter missed the deer and he's like, oh, you jumped the string. He jumped the string, you know, And and the rancher very nonchalantly goes, but we watched the tape. He just shot under it. Um. Yeah.

That's another thing that people are trying to talk about now too, is that people for a long time have thought that it's always a sound of the bow going off at the animals reacting to um. But I recently heard a story about a guy was in Africa and when he'd have animals coming into the water hole that he didn't want to shoot opposite the water hole. He was in a blind right, so he's got a water hole on one side, but he's got windows on both

sides blind and opposite the water hole. He had a target because he wanted to test this, and so he would when an animal be sitting there at the water hole twenty yards away drinking, he would draw his bow and shoot the target. Zero reaction from these animals head down to stay in the water, kept drinking. So there's some people that are starting to think that it's actually the sound of the arrow coming towards that animal that

makes him react. And it's not just the pop of the you know the cams in the spring when people say jump, that's just so folks listening whatnot, No, we're talking about and people say jumped the string there, it's actually ducking. It's like an animal goes to load up to spring. So different than if you're trying to jump up and touch a basketball rima. Yeah, you go down for up exactly so he knows something's not right enough.

The word he's gonna get out of town. And in the time as he like gets ready to spring and you look on that. You know, people know so much stuff now because just because you can film stuff and watch it, I mean his back, I mean they drop a half body length. Yeah, you'll also hear people say duck the string like they're intentional. Like he's like, yeah, but you watch, you'll you'll watch like if you watch the slow motion, his spine winds up down where his

belly or where his brisket was. Sometimes I say, it could be a whole body, you know, vertical with at times. Um So anyways, ed Ashby from you get into that real quick, he's I don't I don't know. He's not necessarily the guy that came up with heavy arrows, but he did a bunch of work in Africa and his whole What's interesting is the reason he was doing this stuff is not that he was out there trying to prove that light and and uh fast arrows were bad.

He was trying to get uh bow hunting legalized in the whole continent. Really, there was a few countries that allowed bow hunting um just because they didn't have rules that said you couldn't bow hunt. But most of the countries were like, no, you can't bow hunt. So he was like, well, look, I'm gonna go out and study and maybe show you guys that it is a lethal way to kill an animal. Right, So that was like

his reasoning behind going and doing what he did. So they were saying you can't do it because they felt like it would be dangerous for hunters to come there and do that, or they just or yeah, maybe it wasn't just ethically you know, fair to the animal, just wasn't like a good way to bring down an animal. You know, there's still countries now where you can't bow

hunt um. So uh yeah, because sometimes I think he gets a bad rap for like he's out there just trying to like destroy you know what other people have, you know, come up these ideas that he came up and he's like, no, I'm I was just trying to prove that, like, hey, we could do this with a bow. And by the way, the results show that if you want to, you know, get maximum penetration, which he believes

is the best way to kill animals. Here is the setup that works best for that, which turns out that it's a heavy wait forward arrow um And to get weight forward you put on a heavy broadhead and you put sometimes even an insert at the tip of your arrow two more and drive you know, or pull through you know, that arrow through the animal. And for these fifty reasons having to do with physics, this is why that is. And how heavy Just for a quick like recap, like how heavy is heavy? Don't do it? And if

you do grain, some people the hell that means? No one knows what that means. Oh yeah, I don't know if I can remember the definition of where grain came from. I mean, it's like a it was literally came from like the weight of seeds way back. And how many grains are in a pound. When it comes to when you're saying that you shoot a h grain broadhead, that grain is a fraction equates to a fraction of a pound.

Seven thousand grains in a pound, So seven thousand grains in a pound when you're shooting a hundred grain broadhead, that's what they're talking about. Yeah, I got a math question for you, chatter that's yeah, you're shooting a hundred grain broadhead. What percentage of a pound? Is that h

drop some zero? No? No, this I'm doing a little a little yeah, yeah, that hundred grain broadhead be almost a couple of ounces or a couple of ounces, right, No, this is this conversion chart saying that four hundred grains is point nine ounce. Hold on, just pause all this film. I've never done that. So I've never done the conversion three seven grains and ounce of power different. So the Mediator Math podcast is really the show. So just be

clear here grain. Like when we talk about measuring a broadhead. If you go for for people at home that don't mess with broadheads, going on buy broadheads, or you start go asking me your friends, but hey, what grain broadhead did you shoot? A lot of people are gonna be like one hundred. They're gonna be like one ten. This is changing now, this is going to change in the future. It will be much higher numbers. But for the last

you might be it might might not be. But yeah, the common weights were probably Chester can help out here. He's he's on the company that does he does little, but he does toy bows. No. But when you say the most common were were like the three common broadhead weights hundreds for for a trad bow. No no, no, no, I'm I'm I'm speaking on what I know and what people use back in the day before all this technology. So I'm like compound bows and I love compound bos.

But anyways, they were like typically you'd be shooting h to like twoin broadheads, like even back in the day all those older But that's for trad but like, um, but what here's why I'm upset. If you went down to Walmart right now and they had one broadhead on the shelf, it's gonna be a hundred grain broadhead and there's a lot of it'll be those two for sure. Okay, that's what I'm saying. I'm just trying to establish the

hell of grain is what that means. What that means is what you're like, what is that unit of measurement that is a very arcane unit of measurement that has to do with like grain, like cereal grains, I believe, and it is one seven thousand of a pound is a grain, meaning you would have to buy seventy one grain broadheads and put them in a pile if you wanted to balance it on a scale with a pound

of elk. Burger that's correct, that's okay. So, yeah, the most common for probably compound shooters and and but now you're seeing a lot of people starting to shoot heavier setups. The reason it's a little contentious, controversial, whatever you want to say, is that, yeah, is that as it gets heavier, you get more trajectory out of your arrow. It becomes slower, and so you know, it falls out of the sky faster.

It's not as flat shooting. Um. And you know, people for the last twenty years twenty years have been very accustomed to shooting fast things that shoot flat, and so it's hard go the other direction, even if there's a bunch of stuff telling you that it's gonna work better. It's fair to say this kind of mimics like the same thing you'll see in rifle shooting arguments, right, like super fast, flat shooting little light bullets versus great, big,

heavy ones that shoot like a rainbow. Rick Cutton put it to me the other day. He thinks that it um. He likes to read articles about this stuff a lot. Uh. He's like, all that like super fast bullet stuff is all kind of like pre range finder mm hmm. That you'd have a gun that you could be like point of aims. Yeah, and scopes that you can dial into it with. He's like not with the range. Fun it doesn't matter anymore. You just you can shoot a heavy

bullet and you just know what it's gonna do. And the whole thing about like I can aim at it no matter what. He's like, Okay, yeah, but it's looking how far away it is. I know exactly what's gonna happen, and and I don't need like the super light flat bullet. You shoot a big heavy bullet because you was gonna go anyway, which I'm all about, like shooting a big heavy for better, you know. But the idea that you can't kill a nil guy with a arrow that isn't

sixty grains in total weight isn't true. I know for a fact it isn't true, because I've killed one with a small sure, But you can kill an ELK three to my bare hands. Right now. We're talking all right, episode of trivia for that to happen. But I don't know, I don't know where the baseline as far as like anything below this, Like when you with rifle calibers, it's it's almost easier to know, like Okay, we're now in the range of unethical maybe like when well, I don't

know what I was doing. This whole setup was led into this whole thing. I was trying to say that in my one experience with nil guy, um, and I was with we were with a guy. Um, the guide's nil guy hunts. He was very I don't want to say fixated. His thing was they just get away. They get away if everything doesn't happen perfectly. And um, he wanted big rifles, heavy bullets, close shots, careful shot placement. Drop it, don't let it get in the brush. They

just vanish, the same thing you'd see in Africa. Well, it's no, I mean you can You're not gonna meet an elk guy that wants something different sure than that? You know. Um, what Troy Austin talks about is I forgot about can your can you're set up handle what he calls like plan B when the animal reacts to the string when because the human element is introduced. And no matter how good this technology gets, the asshole shooting the boat is still the same, right, and maybe he's

not gotten smarter and not gotten better. Uh, and you shoot too far forward and you shoot too far back? Right? What happens? Then? Does your super light set up that? Sure? Like with the perfect st everything always dies like right there, they just run off and die, no big deal. But

when it's not perfect, what happens? Right? And that's the same case for why people say use enough gun is because stuff happens, and if you don't right exactly right, that bigger caliber is probably gonna, you know, be on your side at that point. My neighbor in Alaska staws hunt deer of the small caliber rifle, Like why do you they goes him in the brain? You know, I shoot another if you don't hit in the brain, I

just do this. Yeah. Yeah. A good way of thinking about like that arrow bullet thing is like for people that may not know any of this stuff, is just like thinking about me taking a brick and chucking it as hard as I can, Hey, Yanni's head, got it? Or grabbing a baseball and chucking in as hard as I can at Yanni's head, Like what's gonna do more damage? You know? And it's going to be that brick even though it's going to be going quite a bit. Sorry, Johnny,

someone's gotta take it. Listen, it's experimentation. Yeah, so you're a believer in that system. Well, yeah, yeah, and I was a believer. I've been reading Ashley stuff off and on because he wrote a lot of stuff in Traditional bowl Hunter, which I used to be a traditional bowl hunter, um. And so I've been a believer of heavy arrows and those kind of broadheads for a long time. And I've known of them, um even before I met Troy or

we did the podcast with Ed. You know, I was shooting like a five and thirty five grain set up, you know, but I didn't have that the high foc and real quickly FOC stands for forward of center. It's basically like where you're gonna if you're just gonna balance like on your finger, your arrow, if everything is equal,

it will balance exactly in the middle. But the more way you put up front, the shorter you know, the distance from your finger to the front of the arrow is going to become right that we can get it balanced. So the more way you can get up front helps

in penetration. And there's always just like dubious physics involved in these discussions where if it's heavier in the back, it pushes the arrow in or you know, I mean, like people say stuff that contradicts itself, and that's why I'm an argument and that's why I like, listen, Yeah, there's we're gonna learn a lot. We don't know everything at this point. There's a lot to be learned out there.

I'm happy that the Ashley Depth Foundation and people like Troy are taking their own free time and at least trying to do some research and and trying to figure it out, you know, because otherwise we're just working off of what you know, the latest hunting host tells you what's great and what you saw on TV, or you know, listen,

let me tell you something. Those guys, right, because all of us in this I mean, I don't know how many animals you've killed the ball, but for me it's been it's less than ten, um, you know, so I'm working off limited personal experience. I've seen maybe another thirty or forty, you know, because of of guiding archery hunters over the years. Um. But anyways, I'm just happy that

they're at least trying to figure it out. So anyways, I shot my nil guy, yeah, with a sift grain arrow with this two hundred grain single bevel head and um, I think if you want to know more about some of this, uh you know technical arrow jargon that we're going over here, going and listen to that podcast. So if you want to check out what you samos episode to eighty four and it was called the Archer's Paradox. So do we cover off on why and the arrow

is enough for you? Because I'd like to talk a little bit about the haunting the nil guy themselves, because you know when we went down there, your hunt lasted a total of two hours, maybe been a lot short, could have been shorter, because, uh, getting within a couple hundred yards of them is not an issue. Though they are generally aware of your presence, but with a rifle them being aware of your presence doesn't matter that much, right,

I mean, it doesn't matter at all. Well, do you remember exactly like when we were there, was it December December? There was like some some there were there was some grab bass going on. So it's definitely like pre rut cold mornings, some grab bass. Uh, getting within some distance of them was not hard and they would a little bit throw caution to the wind, and when they saw a movement, they would want to come kind to see what it was, but keeping their distance. I shot one

from a hundred yards. Yeah. We went just after Valentine's Day, middle of February, which is known as usually their peak rut. Jesse Griffiths told me the locals down there call them Valentine because they run around Valentine's Day. Yeah. Um, so I think I learned that and forgot it. I like that little detail. We uh, we're hoping for the rut. Zero rut activity the first four days and extreme, like I was cut to the chase. I've never hunted a

more skittish animal, Like unbelievable. We were getting busted at sometimes to three hundred yards and like they would eyeball us, and like it didn't take long until they were walking away, And would is it because you thought it'd be gravy? Certainly a little bit of that, but I mean that only Look, there's enough game more skittish than a pressured

white tail. There's enough game on this ranch that you get a lot of opportunities, right, So it didn't take long for like think walking into it, think it's gonna be gravy, for that idea to get blown out of my brain and go, Okay, you better rethink of how you're gonna get this done. And your idea was you were going to spot and stuck, like sneak in for sure, because that's what like doing and doing research for the hunt.

It was spot and stock them sit over water, sit a fence crossing because I didn't know this, but they don't jump fences. They go under them and bust a lot of fences which they trap um or they'll go through gates that are open. And then some people have had luck actually sitting over dung pile. That's what That's all I've ever done. Yeah with your bowl. Okay, yeah they have. They have a lot of fidelity to their

little ship. In spots were kind of like if you can find a big one, like it's always been sort of accidental. It's like I didn't set out on a nail guy hunt. We were doing something else. We weren't having great luck. We came up on like a big fecal pile, so you know, that's a big bowl. And then we just changed the plant set a ground blind, waited it out and waited for him to have to come. How long did you wait? Same day both times? But that it seems like the ship piles every day exactly

what I would lace. I would lace some feed with a laxative. What I'm saying, I know, I don't. I don't know what that would do for you. It might do the opposite. Increases visits to the pile for the dung pile too, Like they don't just poop anywhere. They just like you walk around and you're literally looking at little poop piles nicely, you know it. And you know

what's funny is uh, swamp rabbits. But here's my observation about about the dung piles is that chester I did when I started paying closer to tention, we did find no guy, just dung or scat spread out like you wouldn't elk and like a feeding zone. It was just like, oh, there's been nil guy in here, and there's not piles pile themselves, so they will go there's there's there's They vary in size, you know, from you know, a big platter,

food platter too, you know, like a car hood. But what I realized, and again it might because there's so many of them on this ranch, is that the difference between one that's like a steamer as we started calling them, and one that's not where you're like, oh man, someone's been here recently. Is one animal species that happened in

the in the prior twelve hours. So you can't really say, oh, this is the hot one right now, because if if the bull decides to use the next dunk pile twelve hours later, all of a sudden, that became the hot one, you know what I mean. So I never saw one where like, oh my gosh, it looks like five nil guy have taken a ship here in the last twelve hours.

It was always just like one had refreshed, had freshened it up, and it just it's like, yeah, um, if they're as skiittish as a pressured white tail, no way, probably not. But I can tell you that again, I'll cut to the taste. I had a lot of these. Again, there's a lot of game on this On on this ranch, we had great stalking uh spot still hunting conditions, not spoting stock, just moving through the brush slowly, trying to

you know, see them before they see you. High winds fifteen and twenty miles an hour, making the brush move, very steady winds, so you know you've got the wind in your favorite paces. Yeah, very and like flat ground, which can be a little bit tricky because I'm used to hunting the mountains, where you always have a horizon to work with, and like when you see something you can kind of duck behind the horizon and make a

move and getting close. When when you're hunting a ranchid is almost completely flat as a pancake, you don't have the luxury of horizons, and so you either have to use the vegetation as sort of a um instead of a horizontal horizon more of like a vertical horizon, and kind of come around corners and keep peeking around the

corners like that. But multiple times at sub a hundred yards fifty to a hundred yards when I when when when and Chris gil was filming with me, and both of us had decided like, okay, we have to be taking half steps, like no more full steps, and once we get like sub seventy five, we're going hands and knees to get in close because we're just like gonna take them, take ourselves out of that like just general view of these animals, but both on my hands and

knees and standing there multiple times in that like fifty seventy five range when I'm like, everything is perfect, the winds perfect. Um, they don't know I'm here. Their heads are down, they're feeding. There's not a bunch of animals. That's another problem. You get a bunch of animals. There's just more eyes. You're always battling, and when you think nobody's looking, somebody's looking. They catch it, right, But multiple times, like one or twosies, and I'm coming in on and

I'm like, this is it, it's gonna happen. Just half step, half step, don't get ahead of yourself, don't let your weight get over your toes. And just sitting there, and I had a cow just pick her head up, look through a tree, look at me. And again it didn't last a second and she booked. And I just feel like a white tail um an elk in those situations if you are not moving. And again Chris Kell could have been doing something behind me that I don't know.

I know, but listen, So that dude is so skinny, Yeah, and Gil knows what he's doing. Man, one of them. If you get after him and he's so skinny, he's behind me, it's kind of like a blind right if he's behind me. But anyways, I'm telling you multiple times, like lift up their heads for no reason. I didn't pop a stick to be like, oh I screwed up. I popped a stick, just like standing there, they look up. I'm like full face mask. At this point, I was talking like the first six hours of the first day

with no face max out the window. I'm like, Okay, everybody's in full cam on. Now we're covered up gloves even though it's hot jackets no no, had I brought one, I probably would have tried it, but I didn't. I

didn't bring one. Um. But yeah, man, just like getting busted for seemingly no reason and a lot of shaking my head and a lot of frustration and every and and you know, Brad, who we know from down there, is like that's the way you do it, as you spot and start or just you know, still hunt him, you know, get on your feet and find him and get close to him. I finally said, the hell with it, we're gonna I found a spot, a whole bunch of dung piles, some fresh ones we had every time we

were in this zone. We were getting into nil guy and there was an open gate and a fence that goes you know miles in either direction, but here's an open gate and looks like pretty good crossings. So we do the whole ground blind thing, brush it in like crazy, and we gave it a full dark to dark sip. The one nil the one nil guy that came by came by on the other side of the fence and

just passed the gay. I don't know if she would have come through well if I had not been there, because as soon as she was trying to get all I would have shot any of the old guy. Um when she came by. As soon as she appeared, like there was kind of like a brushy fence throw you know, you can kind of see through it, not see you through it. And as soon as she popped into view, she swung that head and was like, what is that

thing over there? And she was probably I don't know, thirty yards Like she just pinned us, pinned the blind, not us like we had. In my opinion, like looking at it, I'll show you a picture. Its like we had a good hide. The orcs that came by didn't pin us. The white tails that came by didn't pin us. Like the white tails looked, but they would keep feeding, you know, she looked eyeballed us and just kept ride on walking and was like, I'm not I'm not bothering

with that. We saw a few bulls, but they were just out of range and they were they were just moving a direction that wasn't going to bring him through that gap. So I could have put in three days in that blind and it would have happened. Maybe I don't. I didn't have the luxury of that because it was my second to last day. So even though it didn't work that day, the next morning, I'm like, okay, morning movement, I'll give it ninety minutes. See what happens. We said

it no nil guy come through. Decided to get on our feet again. I'm like, okay, at least we're gonna get some action and hopefully we're running into some pigs. I'd like to shoot another pig. We can talk about that too. I had a blast hunting pigs with my bowl,

like I felt like a kid. Is great. But immediately leaving the blind, like ten minutes into it again, great wind, like I bust a cow pop out of the water hole, and as soon as I hit the water hole and I'm like not even like I'm not like standing on the edge of the water. I'm looking at the water from ten yards back in the brush and I look over across the water and there's three nil guy bowls looking at me like son of a bitch, and they skid her off. I'm like, well, we'll just keep hunting,

you know, go a little farther. We get to the next water hole, we think we hear a pig and so I'm like, okay, just totally going to pig mode. I thought I heard one grunt and Chris is like, yeah, I heard it too. Let's find this big. We're looking around, looking around, and we're like maybe again ten five to ten yards in the edge of a water hole. Well, from over my left shoulder, come in in the open, uh,

into this water hole. Two Nilgai bulls walk into the water and start drinking the closest ones at like fifty yards. I'm like, buddy, it's on. Somehow they had not gotten my wind when they came in from behind me. Now they're up wind and me, I'm like, this is it. I gotta make ten yards. They're out in the open, there's no brush in the way, Like, I can make that shot, no problem, And Chris is like hands and knees. I'm like, we're on a buddy, We're all we're because

we're actually looking for this pig. So we're like on, like we're already down. So we start going creeping, creeping, But you had limited yourself to a thirty yards shot. Thirty five is what I wanted to shoot. Probably in perfect conditions, I would have shot forty. Um. But yeah, I just don't like the more boning I've been doing lately.

I don't want to get into those positions where like I make I take a shot and and it's not the outcome that I want, and it just seems like, you know, there's just too even if I make the perfect shot, there's so many other variables, you know, I want to make sure it does the trick. So yeah,

forty for sure. Um, nothing past that. Uh So we start creeping and just seemingly out of the blue, the lead bowl like picks his head up and it's splashing out of the water and leaves going away from us, son of a bitch, And the other one doesn't spook but follows him too, you know. And I think now it was this third bowl that up I'm about to tell you about that comes in that got him to move, because I think he was a little bit ruddy onre maybe more dominant, and that's what got him out of there.

So this wasn't our fault. This other bull comes in and he actually crosses a gap for me. At forty I come to full draw and I don't know if it's a nil guy thing or if he was running or what, but I got into them and I'm yelling at him and he's not stopping. He just marches right on through my window and follows the path of the

two bulls. It's like, just keep hunting. So I'd go across the opening, follow them into the brush, and pop out into where it just kind of opens up a little bit and you can see fifty yards this way that way, and I see a single cow just kind

of moving and she disappears beyd some brush. I'm like, okay, I'm in the mix, and again I'm shooting any ni old guy at this point, so I kind of make a move towards her, and I can see like a pretty long opening to my left that's made ten yards wide and almost can see a hundred yards and right as we get there, three bulls pop into there. One is like kind of stuff stuff that we saw when

we were down there, all of us together. He's jumping around, prancing, tail up in the air like just poop like broadcasting out of his rear end. Yeah, which it kind of makes sense, right if they're doing the dung pile as like a set marker, it's like they're scrape that. He's gonna do that too in that situation, so just blasting

it out, yeah, like an air soft gun. The other two, we and Chris gott this on camera, full on head bashing, and one just pushes the other one like through trees like brush getting knocked over to the point where I'm like, hey, do I want to get mixed up in this right? Like because because the other thing that Armando the guy told us about was like and it kind of worked on your hunt where like sometimes they'll think you are

another nil guy sort come and inspect you. And so now I'm like, you know whatever, sixty seventy yards, I'm thinking, well, are thinking to like think I'm a nil guy instead of just inspecting me. Just do what he just did to his buddy. I don't have that inch thick hide across my chest, you know, and uh. Anyways, like I'm like, okay, we have running nil guy. This is good, and so

I kind of just stay with the group. Eventually get to where I can see like three or four cows in the brush, and I see a bull walking there with them, a little bit out of range still maybe fifties sixty, and I had already seen him a couple of times, like follow them. The cows was scored out, you know, they get a little annoyed by whatever he was doing. They'd scored out. They scored out again, I see right where they go. He comes out after him. As soon as he puts his head behind this kind

of bigger, massive vegetation. I sprint up like fifteen yards, come to full draw. When he comes from out from behind the rush, he stops just heading neck I can see. And he must have just seen something enough because when he doesn't follow the cows now, he kind of turns away from me and starts just going away. And but he's quartering but pretty hard, and at first I'm like,

I can't take the shot. And again I'm trying to stop him, but I'm thinking I don't know if I can take the shot, because he's quarner like just walking. I don't want to take a walking shot. But because he's so quartering a way so hard, he's not actually like I'm not having to move my boat to follow him, like my pins are almost just like resting on him. He's because he's kind of going straight away. And so I shoot at like twenty six yards and he was walking,

and uh, we replay the shot. I don't see him fall over. We replay the shot. Shot looks like it's a little bit far back, like it definitely enters like in the guts and but strong quarter. Yes, the very strong well turns out again. I'm gonna cut out some of the details. He went seventy yards and fell over, and uh, I was after watching the footage, I was going to back out, hook up with Troy, give it a couple of hours, and come in and try and try to look. But Chris is like, let's just do

one quick little loop. I'm like, all right, you know that's my arm, but no blood and we couldn't find the Arab blood. No blood, couldn't find the arrow, and uh, I'd already this point, you got that like pitting your stuff totally. I'm like not stoked on the situation. And as you know as a honey host, the first thing in your head is like you start to like right the lines that you're gonna have to say to the camera about how you screwed the pooch and shit happens

and blah blah blah blah bla blah blah. You know. So we recover it not long after, and um, I was very excited, I mean and surprised. I don't know if I would have been more surprised there was a leprecn standing there looking at me, you know, but like to see that dude down on the ground. Now when he again animals make it seventy yards in like, not even a full second where he died, I don't know.

Had he gone another seventy yards, it would have been very easy blood trail because he had, you know, blood coming out of his mouth and his nose. Um. It would not have come out of either of the or the one wound where the where the broad had went in, because it went in, like I said, basically in the paunch and went all like probably went through eighteen inches of grass filled belly, then went through the diaphragm, split the lungs and half cut the uh, either the A

order or the pulmonary artery. I had it in a text I can't remember now, but basically the one that can the lungs to the heart and then broke a rib on the way out went through the shoulder meat and the arrow. You could just feel the tip of the arrow through that inch thick hide right here. There's your selling point for that heavy arrow. So a little bit for sure, Like we we measured it with a tape measure were we had the luxury, as you know, on that ranch you can get a truck pretty close.

We had to drag him maybe a hundred yards by hand, got him into a truck, took him back hole, guts in and everything so that we could really do fold that cropsy on what happened, you know when that arrow hit him, And we figured we got somewhere between like thirty six and of penetration with that arrow. Um, which

is pretty good. That's great. Um. Like I said, I think had it not been that inch thick hide on his chest, the broadhead would have been poking out if not had gone all the way through, you know, but it stopped it. Um. But yeah, so it worked well and it was cool because we got to dissect it. Troy has um he used to be a respiratory therapist, so he's very uh intimate knowledge about the respiratory system

and how that all that stuff works. So it's cool hanging out with the guy that not only can just go, oh, yeah, those are lungs and that's the heart, which we all can point to and do that, but how it all comes together and the different parts of the lungs and why there's you know, three lobes of the long here and not da dada da and all that stuff, and how come it's better to hit the lungs up front here, etcetera, etcetera. Um, So yeah, that's that was a nil guy hunt. It

was hard to drag that thing. I could not drag it by myself. I can tell you that, like, not even move it for for a picture. And it took three of us. You know, he was pretty easy. Then have you guys tried to eating on it yet we did? I hate it is not well again, it's just one piece, just a loin, But I felt like yours was pretty tough. Um. Interesting, I've been I'm I mean, I've I guess I've hunted. No guy four times total, like only once was it

a dedicated no guy hunt. But I've never had tough meat, and I've served him in my restaurants. Uh, but you know from Broken Air Ranch, these are still animals that are I mean they're in high fence, but it's they're still shot. Yeah, it's a few hundred thousand acres of high fence and they're still shot. And I've never we've never, ever, ever once served tough meat and not we're not. We don't serve the loin. We start the legs um and

it's still supertendent. When we get our Warner Brunt. What's that? When we get our Warner brunsler sheer force test and bring some of that too. Yeah, you can bring some of yours in. I don't have any left of mind. I don't think I'd like to bring most of years into burger. I'd like to bring a chunk of my I got some orcs waiting for dinner to night, but I would like to bring a hunk of that and throw it on the old tester. My question for you is we should have Chester run it so he can

go back to be in Chester with the tester. Do you know me? Like the official administer Chester. I'd love to because then it would be like a great we only have to buy one lab coat. One lab coat for Chester was sort of a selling point. Um, like are you doing like a M medium rare type preparation super rare? You are, yeah, so we'll serve it as tartar a lot will serve to um and does that work that you can? But is there something like it's it's like free range gun harvested or do they trap them? No,

gun harvested. But but you'r X. You're getting out of Texas into Georgia, so you can do that. Well, I don't know if you could do it everywhere. I know that these guys that broken Ara Ranch can do it. You know they have they have that set up. But they're also so this is helicopter hunting that they're doing as well, and it's going through us D A inspection. Correct, there's the us D A processor on site. Like that's a process us so. Um, but I'm we call everything

is harvested to order. So like we call them in and say, look we're looking for you know, this is what we need. Uh, and then we have to kind of wait it out for them to go harvest him when noil guy, it's never an issue because the populations, as you said, are so huge and honestly, they already they were telling me that they're running into issues, some sort of pressure from political pressure um with nail guy

because of this um this like bovine fever tick that that. Yeah, they're doing that and they're like trying to inoculate them with these sprayers. So it's like what they explained to me is that, you know, this has been a serious issue like back in the Yeah, exactly. It's not that it it doesn't in any way actually affect the nil guy,

the nil guy or the carrier. Um. It massively affects cattle and once the thing someone looked at them it's a fever tick like they call it a cattle and yeah, I know that that's causing heat between ranchers and nil guy exactly. And it's I mean, the issue is that in the early nineteen hundreds, Texas lost like of its

cattle population to this tick. And that's why there's that quarantine zone in between the Texas and Mexico border where they literally you know, you have cowboys patrolling it every single day, pushing cattle back onto Mexico or keeping US cattle away from that zone. But the noil guy, they don't respond to bait, you know, So you can't bait him into um with cattle and white tail. They literally walk them through a like through a tick bath, and that's how they deal with it. Yeah, that we covered

on the podcast a couple of years ago. I remember we covered that a live show um where oh speaking, which we're doing a live showing buildings a couple of months three. I'll talk about that for a second. Well, yeah, what's that. Yeah, we're doing a live showing buildings I May three as part of the show. During the whole show, Seth's gonna be flashing in the flip flops. See there

you go. That's your double. There's gonna be a dramatic spotlight, like like the most dramatic theater lighting you've ever seen, and he can't talk, illuminating seths work area, and he'll be flashing and stretching for the whole show. The show sucks. The show sucks. You just watch Seth for ninety minute, and I believe believe you buy a ticket, you're gonna

get a copy of the new book with tickets. So it's that's like publication week of Outdoor Kids in an indoor Yeah, if you need it, if you need a reference point inside world. Yeah, we went back and forth in it, so damn many times. Outdoor Kids in an Inside World. That's publication week. May third live show and buildings, and we're bundling tickets with a book, and we'll talk a lot about that type of stuff and about our

kids and our sports. That's gonna flash. I wish we could think where you had a little wood stove set next year and you could be burning raccoon fat in it, but I don't know if that's the fire department. Yeah, uh Yanni. We should have a meat eater cooks with you're no guy. It's I mean, they produced a lot of meat, so you should have. So when you um, when you're selling it, what do you sell it as?

We generally we sell We used to write nil guy, but then people they couldn't pronounce it, so like people don't order things they can't say they feel like they don't want to feel stupid, So we've got to pass up in Yeah, so we just put South Texas Antelope like and then we sell it that way. Really yeah, yeah, don't do a little parentheses. We so, you know, a gun show, we go to the table and tell you.

So we say, no guy, but on the written menu it says South Texas antelope, and so we'll go, hey, guys, this is the antelope. It's it's actually the animals, something called a nil guy, which means blue bull, roughly translated from Hindu da da da da da. We give them the explanation, so yeah, I'm with you. Sell it that way, and it sells the fucking love it. They lose their minds. Are you afraid about giving up your source? Because because no, not at all, And in fact I would act no,

I would. I would bang the drum for those guys, because um, yeah, we get black buck from them. Um, we get nil guy, we get um what else do we get from We don't actually get hogs them, but but we could certainly be getting hogs from them. Um, we can get fallow deer on occasion, on a rare occasion from them, just you know, kind of a luck of the draw thing. They'll call me and say saw a fallow dear today, like that kind of thing, So um, I'll take it. Yeah, exactly, do you buy a guy

by the pound. Yeah, it's expensive. Give me a rough ballpark. I mean, this is the part that I'm probably like throwing them, like throwing them under the bus here. Just gonna be a rough ballpark. You could be in the thirties and forties a pound, you know, so that's the meat, not live waight correct. Yeah, And I mean we mistakenly one time bought a whole Neil guy. That was not

a good decision. Turns out that's really hard to you know, when you had a restaurant, you're like, all right, well, now the rest of the walk in is just for storing this. Um Like yeah exactly. We ordered two sides of nil gay and they were like, you don't want that, and I'm like, yes, I do. We process everything in house, and they're like, all right, idiot, So they said it. Um, it's also cost the fortune. It was the most expensive thing to ship in the universe. That um now we

get now we get sometimes bone in meat. But we actually we've just worked with them for so long, forever a decade. Now that they've gotten where they will kind of custom send stuff to me. You know, if I tell them this is what I want, if I if I was in Atlanta and I walked in the Gun Show, Uh, is it on the menu right now? Actually, it might be on the menu right now. I have to look and see. We you know, Gun Show rewrites the menu

every day. Yeah, if you always got a thing going, no, we all we generally have some form of a game product at all times. Um. But I think right now we are selling Feral Hog because we just filmed Safertooth there and so we're still doing that. But that's what you know, when I was when I was talking about game and restaurants, I need to expand the list of things I think that are worth recommending to people, and you know, rather than buying like like like a lot

of stuff about of Texas. Like I always think like bison is a great thing to buy because it supports the animal, not vice versa. Um, I think no guys like that. I definitely don't like the pendelk operations, right, but there's so many like those Ferrells out of Texas. Yeah, I think, especially the exotics out of Texas. I think you really should. I think more chefs should be using them. Nil Guy especially honestly, like nil Guy populations are getting super high there are a lot of people in power

who want massive calling to take place. Um, if there was an economy behind that meat going to actually be used as opposed to just being shot and left, um, I would that would be a lot better situation. They're I mean, they're gonna have to reduce the population one way or the other, and I'd rather people be selling them in restaurants personally, do you uh, when you guys grind it? Do you ever grind it? Now? We never do. If we're grinding, you put some fat in it? Right?

Oh yeah, yeah, there's it's just non existent for the best part. So any preparation we do is always paired against a ton of fat. So that's why tartar works really great, because you're talking raw meat that's folded in with egg yolks and things like that, so it rich. It adds that richness back to it. It's actually that's one of the best preparations for super lean meat because it bounces out that fact, did you save the hide

on that thing? I did not? I I did, and I wish I would have handled mine better because later I wanted to have it laminated to that. You know that how Brad has that one it's like got that rubber stuff on the underside and it lays out like real flat and beautiful. I hadn't noticed it. You haven't seen that, dude. It's amazing, amazing, and what's the years? Just kind of wrinkly, just and I should I wish i'd.

If I could do it all over again, I would have gone in and skinned it very carefully and sent it to like a like a delicate tannery and had it laminated to that. Because the thing about those is they laminated to this rubber stuff. And that's some bitch. Lays so flat you could run a vacuum over it like flat. I just found it dulls your knives like you're processing knives like crazy because that skin is so gnarly. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, get on his flank is he's got

like a wild pig shield and that crazy hair. Yeah yeah, exactly like you decided to cut a wire brush up with your knife. Exactly. Yeah, honest, you should talk about that that patch that you that patch of hide that's super thick that you post a picture of that already did. But yeah, basically from you know, why you said tonight is because this room feels like the evening together, I was going to start dipping some strawberries and chocolate. Our

our track lighting is out. We got some mood lamps going oh yeah, dude, but yeah, basically from from lavender candle really sets it off from the tips of their shoulders wrapping around the you know, their chest, the hide goes from It's still a dang thick and tough hide behind that, you know, going towards the rear of the animal, but that chest it literally turns into darn near an inch thick. It's not like it almost looks like it's a layer of fat, but it's not. I mean, it's

an inch thick hide. And the best we can figure, well, there's probably two reasons. One when you're fighting sharp ass hordes, when you're fighting with your buddies. And yeah, the bull I killed the same thing with the bull you killed. It had three holes in it where you could take your pointer finger and just and and jam it to the second knuckle in there and then you'd feel the end of it. Right, So they're constantly getting these wounds.

But also think somebody pointed out on Instagram that like, yeah, they also where they are originally from Bengal tigers chase them around, you know, and and jump on their neck. So that could be a pat because that might be why their radar, like their long range radar, is calibrated, the risk calibration is different than the risk calibration on their short range radar. They also have not great sense

of smell. I've always been told like that, don't really worry about the wind when you're hunting nail Guy, Like they don't smell that great. But we were told that too, and I had instances where I think I felt the wind on my neck, didn't get winded, and then had instances to where I'm like, the only way we just

got busses because we got winded. So um, I was reading something a while back after the last Neil Guy hunt that I was on um about the fact that in India, you know, we call him an antelope, they consider them cattle and so they're they're sacred just like any other. Yeah, they don't eat them. Yeah, for that reason, that all of their pressure in their native environment was actually from colonialism, like from you know, English folks hunting them.

So they don't hunt them, they don't do anything with them. They just let them do their thing. Interesting. Oh ye, honest, when when can people go watch The hunt Man? May of yeah, that because that's the schedule that um only yeah, I mean I'm working to push that up a little bit. But yeah, man, this this production house is a busy production house. And and I'm filming a year out. Huh,

Janni dies, we won't even really feel it for a while. Yeah, as long as plenty of stuff coming, as long as you can come in and uh, you know, do my v O for me, Yeah, it would be good. We got plenty of time to find a stand in maybe like wow, yeah, yeah, over a year, like we're playing I'm playing anything like that. Yeah, I mean we're we're editing and putting out season three of my show, which will be out this May and then but this was already filming for season four. I can tell you three.

The last week of July, I'll be out my fish check. That's about it. That's about it, and I'll be watching Yanni's thinking May Yeah yeah, um yeah, my. I think the last thought on that, which was cool to hang out hang out with Troy, being that he knew the insides of the animal. He puts a lot of emphasis on that, like we all should know that, and it makes total sense, right, like we all kind of know, like you know where to shoot the animal, right, but

right neal boiler room. Yeah, exactly, that's like the level of detail, right. And all we heard about was how their vitals were like way up front and it's blocked by the big shoulder. Well, you know what when we did this like side view netcrop scene, literally just like left everything as it was and took the shoulder off, flipped the ridge cape cage open so you could see it all. But it turns out, no, it really wasn't tucked up more than an elk or yeah, kind of

where you think it would be. I think that's I think that's a misnomer due to this whole antelymp thing because something like a scimitar orys that's very much the case that I mean, it's it's vitals are that little orange stripe on the front of it is where they all live. And if you shoot behind that, so you're shooting in front of the front shoulder, Like if you get behind that, it's just gonna pass through and it's gonna just I mean, it will probably die eventually, but

it's just gonna trod on away. But yeah, just the importance I think that, you know, we should all take the time. Like I think now I'm gonna like netcropsy like every unless I'm just out of time and it's super dark, but like it's so educational to take the time and as you're butchering, you know, really look and see what happened inside there, what what your bullet did, what your arrow did, and try to figure it out,

you know. And I just think the next time you take a shot, you're gonna be that much more confident about Like, Okay, I'm not just aiming for the longest, I'm aiming for this specific thing. Did you settle on netcropsy after consideration of necropsy? I've heard of both ways. Well, I thought that long ago we were corrected to say netcropsy. I don't know. I think both are right. Yeah, it's like coups and cows. Yeah, I still think that you say, Bagel kind of messed up. But Bagel, I don't know

what you say it once Bagel, bagelage Bagel. You know you want to Bagel, I can't do it. Say where I'm not hearing it. It's like he's Bagel. He's corrected I think, okay, he's a bag old guy. Yeah, well I know, but yeah, I'm trying to get it right. No, I would be like ride it down to be like natural space bag bag. It's definitely big. It's a little vague bag bag, say it once, vague vague. I didn't get one of those jobs where you pronounced stuff on

the internet. You just you just you just recorded an audio book. So I'll say it all a lot of ways. Give him three for everyone, like none of these are correct. By the way, I'll start off bigging like I don't know. You could say, yeah, I think these are all fine, They're all acceptable. You should do an app like Siri where people can just like down you just record everything like questions, tast bagel crops. Before we wrap up here, I just want to mention that new Yanni's book report

jingle you heard up top. Oh that was just sent in by some guy. Yeah, his name is Barry Rigby. So thanks for writing that and sending that in serious. Yeah, yeah, Yanni pointed that out to me. Oh, next time we record, remind me to tell you the story about the fleas over at my house. My skin is still crawling. I had to get the shower, getting getting himself in trouble, a lot of trouble. Well, there's only the reason we can't talk about that around that time. It's funny story, Kevin,

Thanks man, Good seeing you by, guys. I'll be back in a couple of weeks. We'll pick up where we left off. Yeah, because I had I had a bite of your to go to gross from from gross to great. But yeah, we should have done it the other way around. Hog holiday ham Ye like wet ass s exactly. Yeah. So, by the way, those things don't taste. Did Garrett tell you that he has an extra one at his house? He probably didn't tell you that any I knew. I knew he was going to hold out on you, guys.

There's a whole other ham at his house that'll be ready to be smoked. Hold his feet over the fire on the twelve. He's got to pull that thing out of the brine and cook it. That was I'm not joking. I hope Jesse Griffiths isn't listening. That might be the best thing I ever ate. That might be the best thing I ever ate. That came off a wild pig. Did you hear that, Jesse? Hold on let me put you on speaker. No, seriously, I've got four of those hams in the freezer right now, so you could send that.

We filmed that recipe yesterday, so but I can't wait six months. No, But I mean, like I feel like you could probably get access to some of that footage. But I'll send you the recipe. It's actually if anybody like preliminarily wants that recipe. Um, if you have my second cookbook, Pure Pork Awesomeness, it's in there. It's just not set for for Farrell Hogs. But you don't need to you don't need to adjust it like you use the exact same recipe. It's in there. Go get it.

Is there still some in the fridge. So I saw Sean Wever was sacking it up. Yeah what Yeah? No, I thought he was like loaded in a sack, taking it with him to say, loading it into a double like a double ziplock, kind of a messy double zip block situation. He put it in a handkerchief and tight around a stick. And then yeah, he's like, I was planning to leave this afternoon, but turns out you can go right now. See if Bye? All right, man, guys, Thanks everybody p