Ep. 301: It Ain’t Just Chickens That Are Dinosaurs

sick are you hearing about Jurassic Park? A little bit? Not at all? Well, I think I've had enough of it, if that's what you mean. That's what I mean, like, because here I am sitting here like as a as a host, right, I'm in a real bind because I'm like, uh, everyone on the planet, everyone on the planet, um knows about that. And you've got to be pretty when did that movie come out? You have to be either you

love it or you hate it. The people are like, you know, Jack Horner, Jurassic Park, you burned out on it. I don't know. You know, I've seen it, but I don't know. It was fun to make, It was fun to work with Steven Spielberg. It was, you know, fun to work with everybody. But you know, I like my science better. You're saying it's not representative, So you you weren't tempted after doing that, You weren't tempted to be like, you know what, piss on this science. I'm gonna go

into the I'm gonna go into the movie consultant business. No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't. It wouldn't have rated my job for any of theirs, for anything in this world. All right, So you know what I'm gonna do. This is just by way of introduction. I'm not gonna mention that ship at all anymore. So I just had to get it out of the way. Listen, you know how, who's the guy that wrote all the songs that uh, Eric Clapton

made famous? J J Klee? Right. J J. Kle would write a song you do it, no one care, and then Captain Clapton to do it, and it'd be a big hit. So after a while you'd start thinking j. J. Klee either hates Eric Clapton or likes Eric Clapton, and someone put it to him, and he's basically like, that ship made me a lot of money, right, all the class and songs, not that one about his kid in the window and all that, but most of the class

captain songs. We're j jkle tunes. H Moving on, Jack, We're gonna talk about of some stuff that has nothing to do with your groove book, but please because there might be some things you might a w in X what we're talking about, some disease things. I don't know if you have a gender. If you're like interested in mammalogy at all, I like all oologies. It's good accept astrology. Astrology like the kind where you like use it to

the plant is to pick your face. I was just about to ask what that is, some dude, have you covered off on astrology before? I'm not buying it. I'm gonna go out like I know it's a it's a rare opinion, but I'm not buying it. It has to do with the moon, Steve, that's right, you like the moon. But here's the thing, man, If I was gonna make if I was going to break the people of the planet into twelve groups, and these groups would help them figure out how their day was going to go, I

would have groups like this. You'd be like there'd be a group called your father was an alcoholic, can beat you? Okay, and then you're your thing for the day would be like today, you'll probably have some trust issues, right, and I would like have a goal like that, like you're

extraordinarily wealthy. And then it might be like today you'll probably have some existential crisis, but you probably won't be too worried about finances, and it'd be like and it would just be like so much more helpful then some crazy shit about you know what I mean, you should write a self help book because that seems I'm gonna break the world population into twelve groups. Every day. Those people will wake up look and they'll be like, oh,

that's how today we'll go. Right. Yeah, it'd be like you suffer from debilitating depression would be one of the signs. And it'll be like today is gonna be rough. Today it's gonna be rough. Uh, but it will am someday It'll all be over. Uh. Oh, we're gonna promo. We're gonna promo our like our our tremendous proliferation of YouTube content.

Where should we start sourced with? Daniel Prue is just wrapping up, dude, I just found out a thing about Danielle today that I want to talk about so bad, but I didn't check with her if it's okay to talk about. It has to do with the It has to do with the very pugnacious, very sensitive German hunting dog community. Oh is this something we've already tackled new news?

Just how fussy, how fussy and feisty. Yeah, like if her dog sneezed and lost its facial hair, it would be called a totally different dog and highly regarded by another set of very pugnacious German hunting dog aficionados. Yeah, like what happened to Snort? How Snort lost hair on its ear? They would come and they'd be like, um, they'd want to come execute Snort her in a bag and butt her in a river. She no longer represents you know, right, You think those people would have got

over that kind of thing in the thirties. That's a hell of a retrieve. But look at that tooth. But I won't talk about until Danielle says we can talk about it. But holy cow, it trumps all other crazy, fussy, feisty German hunting dogs stuff we've covered. Well, it's a rich story, but she might be a little pissed if we talk about it. Uh. Um yeah, So Sourced with daniel Prue was just wrapping up. Cal was on up. Cal. Explain you were on an episode of Source. Talk about

that please. Um. So you know, Danielle is is very food first oriented, very great at asking questions and and finding out the why on what makes food good and interesting? And um, I actually watched the last couple episodes last night and um yeah yeah, super fun and and pick up It entertaining, but it's also educational if if you

like to play around with with cooking wild game. So like one of my favorite episodes is the episode with Leeway and it's on dry edge fish, dry edge fish, and um, there's it was hilarious because I was pulling out some reef fish from Hawaii that had been marinating in their own juices, and that was very high on the list of things not to do in the episode. He wasn't really crazy about that. No, No, dry fish, Um,

as fast as possible. He doesn't like when you catch fish put in the ziplock bag and then it kind of thaws a couple of times. Yeah, and then later you heavy kids, you do what your kids would catch up that would that would that would be listed as not the way. Um. But yeah, great, great series entertaining really pretty like very pretty food um, and then you know plenty of very pretty getting outside uh and getting you in the mindset of how you get that food.

We also got B side Fishing with our very own Joel Ster Mellie Sooe. Joe hosts the Bent podcast and uh season two A B side Fishing is out. Um. Episode one was on shad. Episode two is on Snakehead Uh snakehead fish, which Joe is like a big snakehead apologist. Um, dude's funnier in hell. I love that guy. Check that one out. And then right now, which is which is uh I'm super high on is the one week in November series you bolways listen, you always could have messed

that whole thing up, but you didn't. How could have we mess it up by all of you going out and not getting anything? You guys toured a new one. Yeah, you guys like almost mess it up because you got shipped too quick too. They get too me dear, I mean not to me dear, because it's it's just like a dear per Parson, but still it is just white tails though, yeah, you know, just white tails. I didn't counter some mule deer on my hunts, so you got that. Like,

give everybody the premise of One Week in November. We have four hunters kill five bucks across seven different states for one week in November, and met Eater hasn't done anything like this before where they wrap up filming something and ten days later it's on YouTube been available. So this was really like targeting the seasonality of November and being excited about the rout by the time this episode comes out. Episode one and one and two of One

Week in November will be available. On the first episode, Tony gets to start it by killing a mega eight point buck in Minnesota. Really, Tony Peterson, that's correct. The other hunters on the show where me, Mark Kenyon and Clay newcome, you got you know what you should have done is hired that dude that reads like at a time, right and it had been in the world one week, four states or something like that. So I don't I don't think you did a good job lean off that.

Just the whole premise though, Okay, like probably see see grade. Okay, I'll take another stab at here. Everyone likes hunt white tails. They live for the first week in November. Right, America's most popular big game animal, America's most popular big game animals. You're gonna do it one week out of the year. You do it first week in November, you know, I know. There's like so, yeah, there's some fluctuations and all that. There's some variations and the weather could impact blah blah blah.

But generally, if you had to like throw a pick a calendar date range, that's the date range. Is there date out there that shows like the one week out of the year where there's the most hunters in the woods. Yes, So road kill fertility studies have been done on does that were like smashed on the side of the road, and then they can date back to like when the fetus was conceived or whatever. And I think in the Midwest they on average saw like no is being the average.

So we're hunting a little bit ahead of what would be like peak breeding. Oh that's when most doughs get bred. When do most milder dolls get bred? You know, I don't know, I don't know. And I surveyed ten big buck killers like five years ago I asked them what their favorite day of the road days, and I think seven out of ten picked a day between November seven and November ten. So there's first two weeks in November are the best two weeks for most white tail hunters.

November thirteen is the main day they get fertilized. That was in like Indiana, which was pretty well representative of you know, anything from New England to the West, you know. I think that with humans, I think that the summer sols to score is real high. I can you remove like holiday stuff, No, I think it does. Like the summer sols, this is a high score. That's when we're running. If you're doing yeah, if you're doing one about people, you call it one day in June, one day in

late June, it's good. Um, so we have we have me hunting in Montana, Wyoming. But it's it all plays out real time. That's right. It was like the day right, So you've got four dudes and four different places and like episode one is that day, it's right? Episode two is that day? It's right? And in like episode one day, why why am I doing better at explain it to like watch later, I'll be like talking about dinosaurs and Jack and be like, no, ship on day one, You're

gonna see me in Montana. You're gonna see Clay Nucom in Arkansas. You're gonna see Tony Peterson in Minnesota, and Mark Kenyon in Iowa. There you go, it's getting better now, it's right. You guys got dear Chram all over the place. We really liked it and Chester watched it together. Oh great, new episodes every Tuesday through the end of the year. Um and in those seven episodes, I'll tell you this, we kill five bucks, so there's action to be had.

I would also be a bad member of the production team if I didn't mention how awesome it is that this show is airing as quickly as it is. Yeah, when the product, but it doesn't lose its production but not at all. No. I mean Jack can tell you all about making movies. He loves it. But normally you shoot something for a few years sometimes, but I mean

it's getting turned around a week or two. Very talented crew, every minute matter, to the point where like when we would get done filming November one, memory cards were like getting overnighted back to the office so those folks could have them by the morning in November two. The long and short of it, really all the stuff are top is subscribe to our YouTube channel and all this stuff

will just get hand delivered to you. And hold up and uh, when when I'm in Montana, Wyoming, I find some really special rocks and petrified wood and egg it's that are going to enter the auction House of Oddities as a one week in November giveaway. One rock that I find in Wyoming is one of the coolest pieces of petrified would've ever found. It's like almost opalized. It's about the size of a softball. That's going to be in our auction house coming up later this year. Wait,

can you describe the opal eyes? Because I know what an opal looks like. So does it look like iridescent? And maybe jack Jack is not? And there there's common there's common opal, and there's uncommon opal. Right, Well, I don't know, I don't know my op. I don't know opal, but I know opalized, you know would and sometimes even you know, dinosaur bones can be opalized. Make it hell.

The rock that I have, the peace specrified wood, is common opal, so it's not very iridescent um, but it still has like this very nice, waxy ambery look to it. It's going to be in our rockers. There's opalized there's opalized wood um right here in the valley. Spencer's gonna find it. No, it's right that podcast wraps are going to have to tell us what you're like a secret hotspot. I got it by that dump. I got a rock story.

I got a rock story. It'll titilate you, Spencer. And then I happen to be in a place where there's a big outcropping of green rock. There's a spring flowing out. Seth can back me up on this. There's a spring flowing out, flowing with it looked like it looked like St. Patty's Day. The water flowing out from under that thing was green. Seth. Yeah, I even remember asked Steve. I was like, is this because that was gonna be our our water source for the night. Remember, because we're playing

on camp. He's a little nervous about drinking that green, was like, and we're already caught him that, We're already calling that. Remember that old ad, set doesn't remember you be an ad for Irish spring soap. We're like this dude, like this old Raddy woolf sweater. He's got a jackknife out and he cuts into the He's like standing out by a spring, apparently in Ireland, and he takes his jackknife and cuts a hunk of the shaving of the soap off to show that it's apparently the soaps uniform color.

And he's like, I can't who can do an Irish accent? I can't do any accent defensive? Come on, come on, phil, Oh it's a it's a chunk of soap. Okay, do say say clean as a whistle, that's Irish spring. Clean as a whistle, that's Irish spring. We found a spring. It was a dead ringer that like that. You could have filmed that soap commercial at the spring. We were on in one part of the continent, were you North America,

Upper Upper North America. So the head one of the head waters of this was this green rock with green water oozing out of the hillside. I'm not lying on top of it. I don't wanna get too many details. Anyways, I pick up a hunk of this green rock and I'm thinking, I don't know what it is, but I take up a little chunk and then I got sick. Carrying that chunk and busted that chunk and had a little or chunk to take home. What is it like? Copper? So I gave it to a body mine who's kind

of tied into the arts world, sculpture and whatnot. He gives it to a former student of his who's a jeweler, and I said, I wanted a piece for my wife, and I wanted a piece for my daughter made out of that rock. He comes back all excited because it's a green Jasper, Green Jasper. Now I'm having necklaces made one of them. Is Seth's gonna too? But now Seth cans. He's like a homeowner and a cabine owner can't be blowing all his money. But half elk Ivory, half Jasper.

My daughter doesn't want a tooth in hers, she said, So she's just getting straight up Jasper. What do you buy that rock? Story? Spencer God alright, moving on to our recurring me Eater Auction House of Oddities, which we're on number group group five, Group five people. So here here's the here's the lineup on group five. Remember we had Dr John Karpowski, the squirrel Researcher, on the podcast. His book which is like, if you're a squirrel enthusiast,

nukeam North American tree Squirrels. We have that book signed by Dr John Kaprowski. If you're not obsessed with tree squirrels, this is gonna get you that way. I don't know why anyone would hope that they became obsessed with tree squirrels. Do you know what I mean? It's like when you read about people real quick, think about this. If you read about things that are meant to increase ones sexual appetite, mhm, Like if you don't like, if you don't have one,

do you wish you did? Like? It would be like it'd be like, here's a here's a pill that makes you want something you don't want. Now. I think there's kind of a social pressure to want to have sex, but I don't think there's a social pressure to want to love tree squirrels. You hear saying like if I said no, no, let's say I said, let's say Phil, do you wish you had a red sports car? Not particularly? Oh, take this pill and you'll want a red sports car? I got you. Would you take the pill? No, because

you're not gonna get it? Read sports car? So here's the deal. So I'm saying, if someone's not obsessed with squirrel hunt, I don't know that they want to go get a book to make them such. So this is more what I'm speaking to here is people that are already This is for people that are already obsessed with squirrel inflation. But it could maybe convert you. Like I wasn't previously obsessed with squirrels, and now I'm obsessed with squirrels. Did you want to be obsessed with squirrels or was

it affliction? I fell into it. I fell into it. Yeah, Okay, So back what I was saying. If you don't love squirrels but wish you did, here's a great book for you. More appropriately, if you love squirrels, mo everything about him, this is the one you want. Also another meat crafter now we learned about like the meat craft are are

are the Stephen rounella meatcrafter. Addition, meatcrafter from bench made like when we sold them, we had a bunch they sold, people loved them, some people like a lot of money and it was but then some guy on ebayse sells one for like twelve bucks because today and bad he wants to donate money to conservation when we call him out on it. Anyways, Now they're super valuable. Real people are people are selling the damn things for on eBay and getting thirty six bits. It's like an n f

T you can hold in your hands. It's like an n f TV can cut your finger off with. So, dude, when I was with Jordan Bud the other day, she saw mine. Now she really wants one, but we were putting them up on the auction house very value when they go for good money. Hybrid hunting fixed blade knife like a bony knife, currently out of stock on Bench Made's website, but you can find one here at the auction house of Oddity's Beautiful Knife. We got a one

Week in November package. This is pretty sweet. It's a collection of gear and memorabilia that comes straight from the first season of our latest YouTube series, One Week in November, featuring our very own Mark Kenyon are very own, Spencer New Heart are very own, Tony Peterson are very own. Clay Nucom spent seven days hunting in seven different states.

Pieces include Marks Tethered, Phantom Tree Saddle and Predator Platform, Tony's Prime bow, a bloodied arrow from Clay's white tail buck, and a collection of goods from Spencer, including some wood and egg as he found deering the hunt, his blaze, orange me eater vest, his benchmate hinted hidden canyon hunter knife, his first light, large dirt bag, duffel, and a bullet he extracted from his white tail buck. I'm a bit

on that, sucker man. Then we got Blue Hour, which is a ram painting inspired by the beauty, intensity, and unniable presence of bighorn sheep residing in the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem. Artist the flip Flop Flesher's fiance. That's some serious f aliteration, even though fiance flip flop fleshers man, she should start out that's she should change sure from Instagram. She's like k ray John's. She should be the f F f's f quadruple, the f s just squad or just quad

f She should rebrand. So uh, Seth Morris our beloved, Seth Morris, the flip flop flash her He's getting married to the wildlife Artist Kelsey Johnson takes beautiful Pictures uses that to base paintings off of. Anyways, Blue Hour beautiful one from hers twelve by sixteen oil on canvas board. Beautiful. Then check this one out. Polished petrified wood bookends. Spencer new Hearth and his wife Shelby Huber found some pieces of petrified wood near the Yellowstone River fifty million years ago.

These things were formed. Spencer and Shelby picked them. They hand cut them, They hand polished him into perfection. There are only two other sets of book ends like these in existence. One belongs to Spencer, the other belongs to me, So we usually say these are one of a kind items. It's one of three. Spencer has a set. I complained about him having a set and I didn't have a set. He gave me a set. Set number three is here. Pedestals of petrified wood cut flat on the bottom that

use as like book ends. They are choice from our very own Spencer the Rockhound new Heart. Check this one out. This for you folks down in Atlanta or their bouts are headed to Atlanta a night for four at Kevin Gillespie's Gun Show restaurant in Atlanta. Enjoy a decadent dinner for four at Chef Kevin Gillespie's famed Atlanta restaurant guns Show.

During this interactive dining experience. Chefs prepare meals in an open air kitchen and present them directly to patrons, and cocktails are craft a table side on a rolling bar cart. The value of the dinner roughly estimates to one fifty bucks per person, but it's like worth a ton more than that. Got a deer leg bottle opener. You heard

that right. Brodie Henderson won this impressive bottle opener from Spencer new Heart during a highly competitive, uncomfortably heated white elephant gift exchange at I was just holding this thing in my hand. This thing is hefty. You could beat a intruder, yeah, and then if he had a bottle of beer, you'd open it. Spencer bought it online from an unnamed taxidermist for the occasion of our holiday party. It has opened many a beer at many a met

eater function. The hoof, dew, clause and fur are in perfect condition, and the opener is made of sturdy metal for even the toughest bottle opening jobs. It's got a warning that the only your dog and ahold it now that it has any smell to you know what dogs are. Finally, we got the giveaway, so the at the auction house. The way the giveaways work is there's stuff you've been on like with money, and you bid it and buy it. And there's stuff you just signed up and win for free.

The white Tail gear giveaway. So we did a giveaway with the Doss Boat to boat. We did a giveaway with me and Sess Bottle of Skunk Accidence. This is the giveaway. Now, Okay, get yourself completely rigged up while you're waiting. Check out one week in November to see this gear in action. Uh. Someone wrote, and we're covering off pretty heavy with when Dirkin was on about Gordon Lightfoot and the record the Van Fitzgerald. You've wrote that song, Jack, I am and we got I got the humming some

lines from Sundown. A guy rolled in, I don't know if I don't know if like Gordon Lightfoot, historians know this about Gordon Lightfoot. A guy wrote in about who Sundown is? Sundown? You did you keep playing a little quick liick of that? Uh whatever, Phil sun Um. So this guy writes this recently on the podcast Gordon Lightfoot has been a subject on some of the podcast. That sentence could have been cleaned up and as someone who is from or really Gordon's hometown. I feel like I

can shed some light on whose Sundown likely is. Paul Donnelly, who has now passed away, was the local big drug dealer, one of the biggest in the province, or so he claimed. Paul was responsible for the important export of illegal goods into the country direct from Central and South America. This is important to note because Paul and Gordon were friends of sorts. I always thought Gordon was a wholesome feller. But wait until what comes next. This guy says it

very matter of fact. The this is widely known. While Gordon was cheating on his wife with Kathy Smith. Now listen to this sentence. You want to talk about sentence that makes its own gravy. While Gordon was cheating on his wife with Kathy Smith, who infamously killed John Belushi, and it's thought to be Gordon's muse for Sundown, Paul Donnelly, the drug dealer, was also cheating on his wife with Kathy Smith. HM, think about that. You see how John

Belushi got worked into this whole thing. He died of an overdose, right, So is this kind of a hot Let's saying that Kathy Smith was maybe supplying him with his eight balls or whatever. No, no, you're right. Can you see that in the Irish bofe place? He goes on and saying, I know this because Paul was my grandparents neighbor for forty years. Anyways, I thought you might like to know who Sundown probably was. Soun cream wats everybody bought your first your first newly buck? Oh yeah, yes,

so I got my first buck. Earlier this week I went on my first solo hunt. I had been to this plot of public before. It's really not far from town. I wouldn't be giving I wouldn't be going into a whole hell of a a lot of detail personally. Okay, fine, I wasn't gonna say much more than that, except to except to say that it wasn't like in this area where I would be too afraid of bears, um, because then I probably wouldn't have gone. But myself a little

bit bear annoyed. I am very bar annoyed. Yeah, I'm pretty bear annoyed. Um. I feel like I would probably have a heart attack and die before being charged by the bear. Yeah, I'm really that you don't want to die that way? We do on my drive and I always feel like if I'm out hiking, even if I'm an area, in an area where that's wooded but that probably doesn't have bears, I have that sense of like maybe it's looking at me through the trees, like maybe it's there. I always have this like kind of a

little anxiety. And he's and he's very baronnoid. You guys can start like a Baronnoia support group and then we should we shouldn't go out together and expose ourselves and um, yeah, so this was a place where so um, I was familiar with this plot. And I pulled up. There weren't any other cars. I was very happy. I was like, a great choice, careing you're going on Monday, don't do

this weekend thing anymore. And so to describe the area, it's like it is a little more than left right, and from front to back it's and and you kind of have these I got a question left right from traditionally we go north north, you would go north southeast west, okay, right, with depending hell of a lot on what way you walked into it from. There's really only one way to walk in. This is also like overly descriptive of your spot. Yeah, I would go in and d out a lot of

what you said. I've already found it on on X. You showed up to your spot, there's nobody there, and then I wouldn't even get founded here. It doesn't matter. Just like I'm trying to describe proxim in your town dimensions, what it's commonly used for. Okay. How many plots of public land very near town? All of them too. Okay, you showed up, there's nobody there, and you found Dear Phil, can you just do because I want to keep this lesson in there? Can you just make it be like? Okay,

lesson learn? So um gracious? So I at you know what, when I left my house, I checked my adometer two point seven miles down not to give it away. Well, okay, put the on x pin in the show notes where Korean got it. Okay, So a way to do it would be like there I was there, I was, So I was there, and um I hiked up to one area, and of course when I got up to kind of this this field area and offense, all of the smart deer were on private land. So um I decided to glass as far as I could see in the kind

of opposite direction. And at about three quarters of a mile was one deer kind of close to the other side of the fence, which was private. Um, but I think it was basically one deer on this entire plot. And I got very excited, and it was kind of windy, so it's hard for me to see if there were antlers or not, and there were so um, I went down way before I probably needed to. I started. I got on my belly to start to crawl, and there was a whole lot of just crawling on my belly.

And where I got to a spot where I felt like I was hidden enough lying on my belly and being able to see like part of its antlers and part of its ears, is where I stopped. And I could tell that he could sense something like he kept kind of he seemed to be alert, but couldn't see where I was. And um, at one point he moved such that I had maybe like a third broadside. And this is this is a lesson that I will take going forward. When I the next time I go target shooting,

I will not shoot bullseye targets. I will And I called Cal and we talked about this, and I think it's so important for people to practice on dear targets to know where you need to aim based upon how you are positioned and how the animals position. So everyone talks about broadside, but what if it's not broadside? And what if you can't get a broadside shot? What if it's nose? Two knows? Like where do you aim on the chest to get a heart or long shot? If

it's kind of back to you? Backside is to you? Where do you so that that's real what I'll need? You have to crack open The Complete Guide to Hunting, Butchering, and Cooking Wild Game, Volume one, Big Game. I will do that. I will do that. I got all, yeah, that's that I think I will need at the shooting at the shooting range, I will not just shoot bull's

eyes anymore. So I took a shot and it ended up being a little bit low, so it was a gut shot, but I didn't know that because it went down immediately, and I was like, oh my god, really I did I did? I just do it like I was very excited, but I did not get up and I just lay there and waited because I know that from working on this podcast, and if you approach a deer, if you approach a buck or a bull, uh, and it's not dead. You may get um gordon, you might

get you might get totally gored by its antlers. So I just stayed lying down and thirty seconds later it stood up and I was it was my heart sunk. I started to get very nervous. I didn't know where to take the next shot. It was nose to nose to me, there was just all the I didn't kill it, it's suffering. What am I supposed to do? Um? And I ended up taking a not very good shot another not very good shot, and I almost destroyed a little bit of backshot but didn't. It was like a couple

inches to the right of its spine. Um. And then I felt like an idiot and needed to take a third shot. Or I just waited for a little bit um and thought that I needed to take a third shot or slit its throat or something. My gun jammed. It was a whole disaster. Was freaking out for a

little bit. And finally he turned to be almost broadside to me on the other side, on his opposite side, and I shot him again and he went down and he eventually died, but he didn't die immediately, and while he was not dying immediately, I wondered if I needed to let it start. I've heard of people who, you know, to put the creature out of its misery sooner rather than later, to do that, but I remembered, you know, because I was myself, I didn't feel like compromising my

own safety to end its life sooner. I knew that it was going to die, but I made the choy. I was sitting there like, buddy, I'm really sorry, and I was upset about it, but I still stayed. You know, he's got two exactly um and he died a few minutes later and that was it. And then I gutted him and called my boyfriend and we carried it out on our shoulders and and then I cried at who

I am in the shower after there was no I hadn't. Yeah, it was really funny, like it kind of hit me after I called Hayden, like we you know, there was a kind of um, you know, quartering quartering party and uh yeah, way later, I you know, I think I think like when the smell of its like scent gland was washing out of my hairs when I was which when it kind of hit me a little bit, um, But I think there were so many things that I did wrong that learning experience, Like there's a lot of

things you did right. Yeah, it's hard to figure. I mean, it's hard to go figure stuff. And most people will never go do not most people a lot of people won't go do something by themselves. They don't understand well because they're so paralyzed by the idea they're going to do it wrong. Yeah, I mean I was, Um, there were certain things that I was really proud of myself in the moment, just how I was trying to like read where I needed to be to take a shot, or how close I needed to be, or you know,

being really quiet and and trying to be patient. But it was some of the you know it's in the moment when you're adrenaline is like coursing through your veins or stress hormones and trying to just get it done in one shot. I mean, it was close enough I could have I mean, you know, I could have um, but it didn't. It didn't happen that way. So definitely lessons for the next time that I do it corintext of me yesterday because she's trying to figure out how

to make a freedom mount and head cheese. Oh yeah, yeah, which I told you not exclusive, you can head cheese, he said. You remember how they had to rebrand French fries because then they didn't want us to do in bait Iraq, I rebranded euro Like, I don't know what the hell has to do in Europe. That's school, that's totally totally doable. But I feel like I feel like people.

It seems like people way east, so like the average I mean, you guys have known this, but it's like the average person seems to waste so much meat and I'm like trying to pick every little bit of flesh out, like it's going to go to my dog or it's going to go to soup. Like I don't, well, you stare deep enough into those ears and nose gonna Oh yeah I did. I did. I cleaned out this large,

pinky sized larva. I actually actually cleaned some of the ear wax out of its ears, and they were like, even though you're amounting it, I was just like so interested. So I was looking I was looking in in it, and then um, they were still like there are a number of mites, you know, crawling out. You know, they're interesting. Place to find painful looking stuff on deer is in the corner of their eyes, oh like little like little like I pooh, yeah, No, they get like a pocket

of like weird material in there. It looks like sawdust. I don't understand what that that episode six of One Week in November, Tony Peter Sin kills a white tail whose eyes are all messed up? Is he packed full stuff from rubbing his antlers or something. I don't know. I've only seen pictures of it, but I'm sure it'll be addressed on the episode. That's a good cliff there. Um,

that's good man. I don't know, you see like all tore up about it, but I mean here, here's look at I need to do better on Yeah, Like I don't want to do it, but I could tell that story real quick. But can you set a template for me? I'd be like, Okay, you really want me to? Yeah, seriously, because like I totally bored myself to death. I got this little spot at hunt. It's really small, it's close town. Um usually go out there and you just see deer

like on other people's properties. But I went out there and like, holy sh it, there's a deer like on the part I can Hunt, which really surprised me. So I crept up on it and I got a couple of bad hits, but it died. It was so good. I will will point out that Korean told me the story. I think we were at the thirty seven minute mark, but by the time we were wrapped up, that would be a great no. The hunt was from the time I saw it to the time I got it was a little over an hour. I used to want to

start a business version for you. I want to start a business where people that are trying to rationalize something that doesn't make any sense would call you up and you'd help them rationalize it, or that they want to buy a certain car but they're already in debt and everything. And I'd be like, hey, listen, man, let's try this one on. Um. You do best when you feel good about yourself, Right, You'd like to feel like a winner, and that helps you perform like a winner. So maybe

you need this car to become a winner. Right, I'll help you, like rationalized ship. Better business might be people call um, They're like, dude, I got a hunting story, but I don't know how to tell it, and then they tell it, and then you're like, okay, let's work out of here. What you do start like this good little business. I'll be like hit one for rationalizations, hit

two for lengthy hunts. But I think you did a great I think you just you know, it's it's however you want to say at time in the woods, time in the saddle, you know, you just need more repetition. And even with a lot of repetition, you can end up in a situation where you're like, yeah, a couple of bad hits, and but I got it. I know what I was gonna tell you to make you feel better,

not make you feel better. But here's the thing. Let's say your bowl hunting and you hit it here it runs off, and you got okay, you're not We're gonna wait an hour, okay, So later you go trail it, and as you're trailing it, you're like, oh, here's where it stopped for a while, And there's like a pipe hate size pool of blood dried on the leaves, and you go a little bit like, oh, it stopped here for a while, And you go a little bit. Now you're a hundred yards away from where you hit it

and here it is dead. Uh, that might not have happened. That might have happened over an hour, but it's out of sight. So that person then finds and there's nothing but happy they didn't have to witness what went on during that hour. The reason they're waiting an hour. They're waiting an hour because it might not be dead. If it was a foregone conclusion that was laying there dead, you wouldn't need to wait an hour. You're like letting

it die, do you know what I'm saying. So you were witnessed to something that is it is like, if you're not comfortable with that, then don't shoot at things. If you're witnessing, you're witnessing something that is is like people just assume it's happening out of their view in thick country. Well here's a question. After you maybe take a bad shot and it goes down and it comes up slowly, and I think, like it's just trying to gather itself. It might die if you just still watch, Okay, okay,

if it comes back shot okay. So guy was listening to the podcast at his camp fire and he got and he was listening to chaster singing his who yep, who yep a song and it called in a black bear and two cups that song should uh put that on a fox bro or something I know, put it on a predator caller Chester going called one in, um oh dirt, miss body shot a bear. It took it to get checked and they just had tranquilized and relocated

the bear. Which when someone gets a bear, in the back of your mind you're thinking like, hey, must be a good hunter. But then when he gets a bear that's been recently relocated, it paints this entirely different picture where it's like, what the hell is that bear doing there? Right? There's figuring things out. So he got had recently been had lived where he's lived for ten days, and um,

you know, you know, kudos him. So the fishing game says, we just tranquilized that bear, don't eat it, to which I said, that's just someone trying to cover their ass, like there's no way that's gonna make you sick. And then we talked about people we've known that have been hit by tranquilizer darts and they were fine. Kind of Uh. Someone wrote him to say someone from Minnesota's DNR who

unnecessary unesthetizes bears. He says, there isn't a lot of literature on the subject, but the thirty day window is usually derived from the retention time of drugs in the muscles of domestic animals are captain wildlife. The use of domestic animals is a good proxy for wild animals because getting a good replicated sample of wild critters to test on would be different. Minnesota dnr US utilizes the thirty

day guideline as such. He's where it gets interesting. We don't drug animals within a month of the bear season opener for research, but if a bear is anesthetized in that window by us d A Wildlife Services, it is marked with ear tags that say do not eat by which is hilarious. Hilarious. It's like finding a bear with an expiration date on it half a fingerweight. In they have a thirty day rule of not eating tranquilized bears.

In Arizona, if we do have to drug a bear within thirty days of a hunting season, we put ear tags on them that that that's say call a z g f D, which is the state's Fish and Game Department call a z g f D. Do not consume Let's say it's hard restend. Three years later, still wearing this ear tag, you're calling in, They'll say, go ahead and disregard. The drug is metabolized out of their system in ten to fourteen days. But agencies like to play it safe. That that was my I was like, man,

I'd eat that bear. But I can completely and totally understand why state employee would tell you do not eat that bear. Oh yeah, They're never gonna be like, yeah, go ahead, thanks for calling in. Of course they're gonna be like, uh, no, no answer, no ah. So Jack, you were born in Montana according to my parents, Yes, how long did you live here? How long did you live here before you went away? Because then you came back and tried college here. No, I was I was

born and raised in Shelby. Um. I graduated from high school there, and then I went to the universe you have Montana and Missoula and flunked out almost immediately and uh and then got drafted. Can you can you flunked out on what grounds? Like? You know what I mean? Like what was going on? Well? Yeah, like like I think at the end of my first two semesters, I had a zero point zero six great average like that bad?

That bad? You know, I had all fs and one A and swimming I'm serious, yes, and uh yeah, I got drafted and and I went to Vietnam and came back and I went back to college and flunked out six more times. But why would they keep giving you more chances to go back? Well, you have to play

to go to schools. Make a lot of money off this guy, they decided, you know, they Yeah, I when I was in high school, like, I won three of the four science fairs, and my science teacher was, you know, I couldn't understand why I was flunking science classes and winning science fairs. That is a good question. It was a good question. It turns out I'm just severely dyslexic, and reading is the hardest thing that I do still. Anyway, my father just thought I was just a dumb ship

And so what does he mean about it? He had been a valedictorian of his class, and so, you know, he just figured I was lazy. So when you're okay, if you're dyslexic, like, what's happening when you try to read? You know, it's pretty hard to explain since I don't know how what's happening when you're reading. Yeah, it's just I think most of it is just allow of of the really short term memory. I can't memorize anything, not

even like four letters or four numbers. And so when you can't retain you know, I can, I can sort of read along. I read letters rather than words, and so it just takes a long time, but then you can't retain it. So but if you're if you're listening to a book on tape, is that better? It's better, but it's still the short term memory thing is still there. So you know, my learning, most of the learning that I've done is just sort of on the job training,

right experience. So walk through how you went from not being able to keep in school to be in the foremost or one of the foremost dinosaur researchers on the planet. Like something happen, Well, nothing really happened. I was pretty be lucky. Um, the professors that you have m realized that, you know, that I had a real strong interest in paleontology. Finally they just you know, just let me take classes.

And at the end of it, I had also learned how to prepare fossils, how to clean fossils out of rock, and I was pretty good at it. And I went to college for seven years, and at the end of it, I had taken all the classes that I thought were necessary to be a paleontologist. I didn't think i'd ever really be one, but I took all the classes, and then I just started applying for jobs all over the world where where they spoke English, you know, in museums

and uh. There was a guy that had just come to the University of Montana from New Jersey, Rutgers University, and he saw some of the stuff I did, and so he put a word in for me at at Princeton University. And I got a job as a technician at Princeton University. So I went there was culture shock, as you can imagine, Shelby to New Jersey, and then I started working there in nineteen seventy five, and two years later I found one of the first dinosaur eggs

in North America. And then you know, we found baby dinosaurs the year later, and I published my first paper in Nature magazine, and they, like Nature, didn't this. They didn't have a thing that you can't publish in here if you don't have a doctorate, and you can't publish in here if you don't have a degree. They just, you know, they're just looking for good data. But but how did you know to make your how did you know to make your findings conform to what it takes

to have like a to be in a peer review journal. Well, I my boss at Princeton University, the curator there, helped me out. Helped you write it up. He didn't help me write it. He just sort of he gave me a lot of pointers. And I had learned a lot of things when I was at the University of Montana. My professors there had taught me a lot about how to write a paper, too. So yeah, so what was

that paper? It was the family structure of Dinosaurs. And I realized early on that if I studied something that no one else had ever studied, I didn't have to read very much. So no one had found baby dinosaurs before that, and no one had even gone looking for them because they at that time didn't even think they could find them. And so dinosaur behavior was sort of

something that I was interested in doing. And and then fortunately, through a whole bunch of weird circumstances, found baby dinosaurs and and it basically launched my career. And you didn't have to go read everybody else and stuff. We have to read anything. How did you find the dinosaurs? Like? What were you looking for? Something specific, a different like a type of soil or no. Um, it's sort of a history to it. Um. There were two paleontology groups.

There was a group from the Smithsonian and a group from the American Museum in New York that back in the early nineteen hundreds had found some dinosaurs in Montana and very close to Shelby where I grew up. In fact, some of them were found where I found my first dinosaur bones as a kid. And a lot of the dinosaurs that they found they named new species, but they were little. And in nineteen seventy five, the year that I got a job at Princeton, paper came out showing

that those were juvenile dinosaurs. It showed that juvenile dinosaurs looked different than adult dinosaurs, even though they looked really different. Um, even though the juveniles were pretty big, I mean, they weren't babies, they were they were pretty big. And it's kind of you know, it's like a deer, right, I mean, a young buck looks different than an older buck, right, they get up, their antlers continue to get begger each year.

And so with dinosaurs, the same sort of thing that juveniles look different than the adults, and you know, they can be pretty big, so they're retaining their juvenile characteristics. And this person published this paper, but then nobody paid any attention. I mean they did pay attention, but every time somebody would find a new dinosaur that looked different, they had still name it something different, not realizing it

could be just a juvenile of something else. And that was where I started realizing that, you know, that's what they're probably doing. And so I was out looking in that same area and didn't find what I was looking for. But one day a friend of mine said, there's a lady in buying the Montana that has some dinosaurs. She

found a dinosaur and she wanted to identified. And I was really close to where I had found my first dinosaurs, and so I said, you know, i'll go identify it for her, and I did, and as I was leaving her rock shop, she said, oh, by the way, do you have any idea what these little things are? And in her hand were the first baby dinosaurs. From North America and eggs are hatched. No, they were just tiny little fragments of skeleton. And I said, you know, I

was almost fell over. And did she just find them like on her on her property or so? She found him on a ranch near Choto and and I said, yes, I know what those are. They're really important. She gave them to me. I later talked to the landowners and got permission to go back out there and excavate. My friend Bob and I, who was a high school science teacher.

He and I went out excavated this thing and it turned out to be a nest full of baby dinosaurs and they were the first baby dinosaurs in the world. How many were in the nest? Like they were hanging out on the nest hatched and they were Yeah, they were three ft long and as an adult the adults are thirty five ft long. So a little nest of fifteen three ft long dinosaurs hanging out in the nest together. Ye.

What happened to them? How did you get killed? Well, they were probably abandoned by the parents because they couldn't walk on their own, so just like baby birds, so they weren't like engulfed in ash or something. No, they're they probably were just abandoned. Could you tell, like what the nest was made out of, Like, was that kind of a sediment? Oh? Really, they pile made a pile of dirt or something that carved it out. What was

the circumference of the nest about six ft that's pretty tight. Yeah, it was really cool. And was that the miasaur? I gotta ask you one of my hot dinosaur questions. Just has a lot to do with your research. Alright, I got a cult to have a lot to do with your research nowadays, I'm gonna I'm gonna nowadays, anytime someone that I hang out with is looking at a chicken or looking at a turkey, they go like, a you can't pull the wool over my eyes. I got his number.

That's a dinosaur, right, Yeah. Why don't they say that when they're looking at chickenees? Well they should, but why does everybody just do it for turkeys and chickens? I don't know. That's a that's a good question, but it might have something to do with, you know, the fact that I keep saying chickens are dinomas. I know, I feel like you created the problem. I probably dead you know, well, I could see, like I'll start talking about chicken eases.

You see a turkey or chicken like with the longer neck and just the way they run around looks more like a dinosaur than a chicken. Ee. But it's just starting to get it's starting to annoy me. I know what you mean, because I don't know why isn't any bird chicken an eagle? Yea, you know they all are all all birds have a common ancestor, and so you know, they're all equally a dinosaur. And this is like, this is pretty bad. This is pretty one on one stuff.

You can do that as a launch pad to talk about this whole thing is they did, Like the idea that dinosaurs went extinct is sort of like most of them all. Basically all of the dinosaurs that we think of as dinosaurs went extinct. The dinosaurs that gave rise to birds were a little they were like a little velociraptor thing. I mean, they're and you know they're called solurosaurs. We don't even you know, it's just one tiny branch

of dinosauria. Is it a genus or a family or there was a it was a family, but but but the you know, the branch that led to birds, you know, branched off during the Jurassic Period. I mean it was so birds and dinosaurs, birds and extinct the ones that would go extinct lived together and so and and they were relatively small bipedal meat eaters. Um, they gave rise

to birds. And so, yeah, walk through the steps and figure and figuring that out, Like what were the clues along the way that let someone be like that must was just because there was an absence of an other

explanation or they're like little concrete things that would happen. Well, you know, to determine be you know, to determine related us, we look at similarities, right, you can't look so for a long time, people you know, looked at dinosaurs and they looked at birds and they said, you know, they a lot of people thought they couldn't be related because there's so many differences between them, right, you know, I

mean they just don't look at all alike. Right, A robin and a Tyrannosaurus, or a robin and a Stegasaurus just have so many differences between them that nobody thought about the fact that you know that we determine relatedness by similarities and differences don't matter at all. Right, if you're going to determine whether you're related to your brother or your sister, you can't do it by looking at the differences between you. You only do it by looking

at the similarities. And so when people started actually looking for similarities, they found that that extinct dinosaurs have more similarities with birds then they have with any other group of animals. And so you hit me with a couple of the similarities. Feathers, hollow bones, hard shelled eggs. Um. I mean, you just just lots and lots of characters. Wasn't there a big like aha moment with the lungs of dinosaurs and how they're similar, like they're more similar

to birds than they are to like crocodiles. Well that's but that's a hypothesis. We don't really have the lungs of dinosaurs. So so we we do know that that a lot of dinosaurs, like long necked dinosaurs, the sauropods and the mediating dinosaurs, have a lot of hollow spaces in their bones, and that's similar to birds because birds, you know, birds actually breathe through their lungs into these air sacks that are in their skeleton much more efficient

than mammals they do. That they have is in an immediate sense, huh, Like, I mean when he the bird takes a breath, that breath is immediately moving into hollows in their bones. It goes right through their lungs into into air air sacks, and then the air in the air sacks comes back out. Basically the way birds breathe, they have fresh air in their lungs, whether they're breathing

in or breathing out, it is really efficient. We breathe in and you know, in our into our lungs, and we've got dead air space from our lungs to our nose right and then we just breathe it back out again. But birds, I say, whether they're breathing in or breathing out, there's this this sort of double passage way that that allows fresh air to always be in their lungs very efficient.

And there's a hypothesis that the dinosaur has had that characteristic at least at least the sarris ski and dinosaurs, which include all the meat eaters and all of the sauropods, the long neck dinosaurs, the others um try Sarah to this horn dinosaurs and the duckbill dinosaurs they don't have they don't seem to have those characteristics, but had something similar.

The similarity like thought processes, is really amazing to grasp because, uh, just like one example, like sandhill cranes, right, the sandhill crane that we have flying around today, that we're starting to be able to hunt again, and in a lot of these states, um in very very very very very similar to the degree of it is the same bird as the ones that's in the fossil record going back two and a half million years ago. Uh. And then there's this community that says, but that fossil is so

similar to this fossil from seventeen million years ago? Is it all just one bird? Well, it's not all just one bird. I mean, you know, evolution is an accumulation of of characteristics over time, and so it depends on where you start comparing. All Right, We'll take individual A, right, and and it's offspring is different than it is, and and then it's offspring is more different, right, And you just keep looking every generation after generation after generation comparing

back to the first one. Right, the difference gets greater and greater and greater and greater. So at what point do you define a similarity. And so that's why you know it's it's you can't pin down where a specie. The greatest change that ever occurs in evolution is the difference between your parents and you and you. You know, that's the biggest change that ever happens in evolution. There's never a point when something just pops up in one day is completely different. So so it is just an

accumulation of characteristics over long periods of time. So so you know, two million years it's possible that that the sandhill crane of today theoretically could mate with with a sandhill crane from two and a half million years ago. That's theoretically possible, but but the characteristics would be very different because the ecosystem has changed so much. This is the thing that I find confuses people all the time,

regardless what they're talking about. Like I was having a conversation there day with Clay Nucom about he's doing a series on the fulsome site where they had where ice age hunters killed an animal called bison antiquois and Clay as Clay was saying it's an extinct bison species, Like it's not an extinct bison species is if you went back twelve thousand years, that's what they looked like. It's it's our it's the one we have now. It's just

they look different. There were twenty percent bigger, their horns, their horns sweept in a different their horns sweept in a different direction. But it wasn't like they all ceased to exist. And then all of a sudden the kind we know today sprang from like Zeus's brow, right, you know, like it's it is just a it's a continuum. But how do you how do you decide where to like, how do people decide where to go? Like that ended, and this began we we we don't do that. You

guys quit doing that. We got together over a guy in fifty nine published a book in the Origin of Species. That's that's that's when they stopped doing that. Pretty good circulation on that, So that was when they, I mean it basically before that, you know, before Darwin published that book, I mean, most people just you know, it was sort of the Lenaan way of thinking that that fish and amphibians and reptiles and birds and mammals were completely different

from each other. And you could easily identify them and and they'd all been put on earth on one day, right, and so and so what Darwin did, but we showed that they actually were related, and they're related through their you know, going back generations and generations and and not talking about five generations but thousands of generations, right, and so you can just you can start linking them together

and we can do it. You know, now we can determine relatedness with d n A. Right, and from a working sense, the your example of could this breed with that? Is that a pretty good like working man's definition of Unfortunately, that is the species definition. The biologic species definition is two animals that can mate and have viable offspring. There

because you can't do fossils. Yeah, mule deer and white tails can breed, but they don't have a viable exactly, right, And you know the same goes for lions and tigers and and and you know horses and donkeys. Well, yeah, exactly, but it depends on it depends on. It depends on what the male is and what the female is. Because if you do it opposite of making a mule, you get a hymie, oh animal called a heinie so and it's like a like or a liger and a and

uh lie gone or whatever they call them. You know, it depends on who the father is and who the mother, which which species the or which organism. That's the origin of the word heinie. I feel like I've heard that when I was a kid, like my grandmother or something like you know or something like that. Yeah, yeah, there we go. Let me let me hear, let me hear the population demographics question. What Okay, let's say you were you were back in time. Okay, I'm always back in time.

You're back in time, and you're gonna go out and hunt for a transporse rex Okay, well I can. I can tell you right from the get go it's not as difficult as Karin's story about hunting this deer. I mean, the story is diff You block off ten days, okay, you go to I don't know, you go to the shore of the Great Inland Sea. Okay, you block off at ten day, hunt at the height of t rex nous. You find a good trail, you find a good overlook,

You find a good overlook where you're commanding. You can see your your your glass, and three miles out okay, and you just work this glass and nob how many do you see? And it's it's media. It's a media. Turns out it's a mediocre trip over a ten day period, ten days, a hard glass and the edge of the Great Inland Sea. How many t rexes do I pick

off with my binoculars? Quite a few, you think, so, yeah, I I'm I would hypothesize that the number of t rex is on the coastal plane at the height of of the Cretaceous, the latest Cretaceous would have been similar to hyenas on yes on on the Serengetti I would have been so. I mean that that would that would mean that the food for t rex would have to be well, let's we're gonna we might have I might have to give you a little bit of a lesson in t rex. That is really controversial. That's one of

the reasons controversy. E mail from sixth graders. It was like it was like a bald eagle. It was no, it was like a high na. So they you know high Enda's hunt. I mean, they all take down sick animal. They just take what's easy, right, I mean they're opportunists, and that's what we think That's what I think t Rex was was an opportunist because it has bone crushing teeth,

and it had to evolve. It had to select for having bone crushing teeth, which means that that it's that its ancestors had meat slicing teeth, right, and and its ancestors could run faster than t rex could, and it had its ancestors had longer grasping arms, and so t rex selected for having bone crushing teeth, having a if you compare your femur to your tibia, you'll notice. I mean, just think about us. We are half legs, right, and and yet we can't outrun anything our size. We are

adapted for long distance walking. We can probably outwalk a deer. But and a t rex is the same thing. I mean, it's got the same proportion. It's not a runner, and a bipedal animal that is a runner has a short femur and a long tibia like a chicken or or any of the birds you want to pick out. I mean, they can they run fast because of that proportion. And so t rex has selected for, you know, being able to walk long distances. It has bone crushing teeth. It's

losing its arms. And it's got this enormous old factory lobe. And and if you take, if you cat scan like a like a bloodhound, the nose of a bloodhound, it has relatively small old factory lobes, but it has this huge bunch of old factory septa in its big nose, and it can you know, can come in tomorrow and and determine whether all of us were in this room, right,

I mean, that's how good to know it. But it can't smell things at long distances, whereas a turkey vulture, if you cat scan it, it has huge old factory lobes and relatively small old factory septa, and it can smell carcass, and it can smell something twenty five miles away. So does that mean as good as smelling like it's good at smelling a thing very far away rather than

a lot of detail up close. And so those that set of characters, the bone crushing teeth and the large old factory lobes and walking all suggests that it's that it is an opportunistic animal and what it smells is stamping. Plus the exactly and plus the fact that in the fossil record to go out to eastern my antenna, and we find Tyrannosaurus rex pretty commonly. I mean, you know,

the Museum of the Rockies has twelve t rexes. I mean, you know, we hardly have any of the little We've got one or two of the little little meat eaters, you know, the kind that that have recurved claws and and and blade teeth and and short fevers and long tibias. I mean that could run fast and good grasping arms. They are rare, just like cheetahs are rare in the ecosystem. So so the number of specimens of t Rex that we find is way above what it would be if

it was an apex predator, suggesting it's an opportunist. Now, you know, like I said, little kids just hate that idea. So, uh my, my little buddy Finn Harrington was going to be in here where the kid you're supposed to have with you? Oh, I got sick. He's um unfortunately he doesn't know this is going on. But we're gonna give a little shout out and um if you can hypothesize who would win in a fight between uh t rex and velociraptor. One t rex and a veloci raptor. Yes,

well I have like six more of these. First off, the veloci raptor probably would come as a couple of a few individuals. And I think they scaled their prey so they just climb up and start eating. So they climb, They would climb in their prey, I think so. I think they scaled their prey. They've got recurved claws like cats, so they could climb, and they're climbing trees. I don't think so. I think they just scaled their prey. And didn't Jurassic Park like get their size pretty wrong? Weren't

they really small? Well yeah, yeah, but you know it was a movie, but but like what what was the reality the size? And in the show you see them like you know, theyvelociraptors about this tall. They are now kids favorite they're like kids favorite dinosaurus. When I was a kid, you like t Rex. Now kids like blossom raptors. They're they're how tall, Like yeah, they're like this the movie they're like seven feet tall. Well they but it's

it's harrowing to think they climb up the animal. So when I when I was working on Jurassic Park, Steven Spielberg asked me to bring a cast of of um of dino nikas, which is closely related to velociraptor, but bigger.

And so I brought, you know, our cast of one of our spe someone's down to the set and and people, you know, if you remember that the scene where they're sweeping sand off of a off a skeleton, we had a cast of a of a dino nicas there and and and I signed off and I said this is you know, this is perfect, and and that and it's even bigger than a velociraptor. But Spielberg came along and he says it's just not big enough. And so I got rid of that styroom. There you go, thank you,

that's why it's big. So he but but okay, so is your little body gonna accept that he wouldn't show up alone. I really really wish he was here because he's a great, great at asking questions. But you know, if t Rex, if t Rex happened to just bite him, you know, he's gonna bite him and he's gonna just swallow him all at once. So what would be a better dino matchup m t Rex and who, well, you know, clash of the titans obviously. Have you ever seen like

pictures of of hyenas and lions fighting. Yeah, that I mean, so you know, a lion is a lion has some advantages over over hyena because it's just more you know, I could just move around better, right, But a hyena has the strongest bite of almost any animal. I mean, he's got so if it so, if any piece of the lion gets into the hyena's mouth, it's gone. I mean, it just crushes it because it has bone crushing teeth. So you know, just if you stay out of the

t rex's mouth, you're fine. If you don't, whatever pieces in there has gone. How many velocity actors to take down? Well, that's good question, but you know, I it's hard to say, but you know even three or four would be fine. Dinosaurs could take down a t rex. Yeah, because because they're climbing on that is great. I mean, thank you, Spencer.

So you've seen you know, most most reptorial birds right come out of the sky, they hit their prey right on the ground and then then he just stand on it and they start eating it and the animal is usually still alive. That's like the crows and the ravens. Yeah, they I mean they you know, they're dinosaurs ancestors. They they eat their prey alive. So it makes sense that didn't do that. That poor dear. Yeah, you could have

just climbed up on it and started eating. When I was a kid, Uh, Pluto was a planet and now it's not. And similarly, I felt like you always heard that dinosaurs were cold blooded, and then like five years ago, I felt like they were headlines and like no, now they're warm blooded, and then recently it's like, no, they're neither. So in November, where do we stand? Definitely warm blood there, but they're not warm blooded like us. So there weren't

blooded like birds. We are endothermic homiotherms. That means we generate heat internally and we keep a constant body temperature, and we a lot of our food goes into actually

keeping our constant body temperature. And the reason that we our homeeothermic that keep this is because mammals evolved as nocturnal creatures and so they had to have a system to keep otherwise that they're just froze to death, right, So they had to be able to eat, generate heat internally and then keep it at a constant body temperature, and so our you know, we now could utilize the sun because we're diurnal, but we still have this leftover

physiology from being from our ancestors when we were nocturnal. Birds have always been diurnal and other reptiles and so so reptiles are are cold blooded, right, they're ectothermic heterotherms are ectothermic poikyatherrms. In other words, they don't generate heat internally. They get it from the sun and they can move around to you know, to alter that to adjust it.

Birds are endothermic heterotherms, which means that they generate heat internally, but they can fluctuate their temperature because they can also utilize the sun, right, and so so there are birds that can you know, Turkey vultures can can can fluct wait their temperature by forty degrees. You know, we if we are four degrees, we have to go to the hospital. M and so imagine just being able to drop your temperature by forty degrees. They do They do that to

save energy. Well, I mean, yeah, yeah, I mean if you can go into a short term torpor, you don't need eat as much. And so that's why birds can sit on the wire and watch cows just eat all day long, right, and they're like, what's wrong with those cows? Would they drop their temperature their internal body temperature when the sun is out in order to Yeah? Use So okay, it's just like just opportunistic, just like turning your your therometer down. Interesting, So translate this for me with uh,

because you're using diurnal nocturnal. So go back to my hypothetical hunting trip where I'm just like glassing good dinosaur. Am I seeing evidence at that time? Am I seeing evidence of like, Oh, there's a species that's that seems to be nocturnal, that one seems to be diurnal, there's a crepuscular one that hunts in low light or is it like dead at night and in the daytime everybody's out. Yeah,

I'm mostly like that. There there may have been some dinosaurs that could hunt, you know, near dust or you're dawn. I mean, they're they're probably worth something, but for the most part they were diurnal. Hmm. And the mammals at the time were nocturnal. So the you know, the all little fuzzy mammals that lived at the same time as dinosaurs, they were out at night hunting for insects or whatever, and that's how they keep safe. Well, that's that's what

I would certainly do to keep safe. Big old dinosaur walk a him not too long ago. And I even seen your name get rolled into this a little bit not too long ago. A guy maybe in the Dakota Is I can't remember his name. A guy came out and there was a lot of hooplah and he had said, Hey, I found evidence from not only the day that all the dinosaurs died from that big asteroid collision off the uk tam Penizula Mexico. I found it from the seconds

that that happened. Well that's controversial. Can you explain this to people? Though? Well, you know, like what he found according so according to the to that hypothesis, which is pretty cool, and I have to say it. For many years, I I didn't think they had enough evidence for it, But I think they do now for the for the impact of a meteor or whatever it was, huh that hit the Yucatan Peninsula, and I think they have very good evidence for it now and I would agree with it.

But if you can imagine, I mean, this gigantic thing hits the Yucatan, and and you know the devastation. First off, the think of the tidal wave, right, I mean it hits hits water basically, and what was it circumference? I'm sorry, it's whatever I think there. You know, it varies anywhere from two miles to you know, ten miles okay, because yeah, i'd heard eight miles eight mile wide rock and and and so you know, it creates uh nine on the

Richter scale earthquakes basically worldwide. It it throws trees and dinosaurs and water and dirt and everything into literally into the stratosphere, I mean basically into orbit for a while. You've heard the theory about there being dinosaur bones on the Moon. No, I haven't heard that. It's it's about it was in a book I read about how that's

how I blast. It put a vacuum in the atmosphere for like seconds where it just sent shrapnel into outer space, and based on rocks that they had found on the Moon, they could hypologize that there would be dinosaur bones that alternated there. I believe anything. I wasn't visioning more of a hypothesis based around using like a porta pot. No, we're a little splashback put it on the moon. I

picture of t Rex just still floating around them there somewhere. Well, there has been dinosaur bones in space, miasaurra bones, baby those baby dinosaur some of those baby be dinosaur bones that that we found in showed were taken up on the on one of the shuttles one time, just so we could say that baby dinot that bones that din dinosaurs have been in space. That warranted the expenditure of money. Somebody just took it. One of the astronauts just took

up with him just just it was. But what's his name? The astronaut that works at M s U. No, so I can't. I can only name I can only name a hand anyway, he in a similar vein, I did a story of years ago on freeze dried food, like explaining all about freeze dried food, the history, how it's made and all that, and I learned unsettling truths. No astronaut has ever eaten space ice cream and space Okay, it went up. They didn't touch it so good, they

don't need it. Why just wasn't appealing to him? They think that they they think that they brought some up. It was never consumed and space ice cream has yet to be eaten in space. A shrimp cocktail has. So what's the new evidence that supports I we should get back to the make everything die well. I want to hear more about how bad it was that day. It was. It was a bad day. I can tell you it

was a bad whop the earth off. It's uh no, I don't think so, no, no, but it but the title wave would have would have washed over most of the United States, all the way up into Illinois really and at the time there was a you know, part of a seaway that kind of went up almost Montana. And that's my and that that tidal wave is what this guy is saying is has has washed a bunch of stuff into this area in North Dakota, South Dakota

wherever it is. And and then it is a result of the tidal wave, like it was the the like depository end of the tidle wave created this great collection a junk, right exactly? Do they also think volcanoes were setting off like and that was on the opposite side of the world. So India there was a there were there's a big vulcanism event that seems to coincide with

with you know, about the same time. So like that thing cold cock the earth so hard that it caused volcanoes on the other side of the Yes, damn, that's a hit. So there was you know, there was, There would have been. It's like me hit paints. There would have been wildfires all over. I mean it just it

would have. It would have been pretty devastating and then blocked out the sun all the off the sun created like a nuclear winter, killed off the plants, killed off the ant eaters, and apparently the meat eaters as well. And and what we don't understand is why the birds survived. Did you not buy it because it was too tidy, it was too convenient? Well, it's the birds. I'm still a little concerned about how how you know, birds are are pretty fragile in the ecosystem, and I just like, why,

why how did they manage to survive? I don't I don't quite figure out where they could be to survive, because you know, they have to eat the same old things that everyone else is. Even maybe they had, but you know, they're they're nocturnal, they can they probably hibernating anyway, So I don't know, it's just you know, it's an interesting story. Um, I actually really don't care what killed the dinosaurs. Well, let me let me invite you to care for a minute. Give me another plausible, Give me

another plausible. Well, you know, theory B there the only theory B is that. I mean, it's not very good. It's environmental. You know, it's basically um an environmental change where where where the seaways retract off of the continents that had been there most of the time, which changes the the the climates and changes you know, air passages and all sort of. I mean, it just basically a pretty rapid change in the climate, which in many cases

it could do sort of a similar thing. But you would still expect some of the dinosaurs to have made it through that, and they didn't. So when you say that you don't But meteor theory makes more sense. But when you say you don't care what happened to him, how can you afford not to care what happened to him? That's like the burning deal, right, Well, not for me, it isn't. What is the burning deal for you? Well, I'm just I'm curious to know how they were so

successful for a hundred and fifty five million years. People are focusing on the wrong thing. I think so. Yeah. I think with like the asteroid thing, people who sight of that, we're closer in time to t Rex than t Rex was to like Stegasaurus. And so what people are missing with the asteroid thing is it's not like every dinosaur died that day or that week or that month. By the time t Rex came around, stegas ours fossils had been in the ground for eighty million years. A good.

That's a good. I like that one. They had like an insane run. Humans will never approach what they accomplished, and we'll never approach what Neandertalk accomplished now. And people think about the asteroid like it doesn't give them credit, like they just died in one day and they just like blinked out. But they had been around forever. That's interesting that we're as separate, we're as separated from were closer. We're clo sort of t Rex is t Rex was

to the stegosaurs. I got those two lumped together like they had lunch together. Yeah, And that's why I think like people would really appreciate they would have like a sixth grade level of appreciation if they realize that that they had quite a run. Yeah, so you know their success is pretty interesting. You had said, how you you don't particularly care about how they died off? Um, And I imagine that there's some differences in paleontology when it

comes to like different cultures or different countries. And I remember recently that like it was a big deal when Canada and I think China agreed to let each other look at what fossils they had or something like that. So how how is that like different between like I assume what Japan cares about in Canada cares about, or what Australia cares about and France cares about you mean paleonto logically with dinosaurs. Yes, you know, it's it really,

it's not my country. Really, it's my researcher. I mean, you know, I I studied dinosaur behavior. You're in dinosaur growth, and my colleague and in Canada studies. You know, he likes to find new species, and you know, other people like other things. So you know, there's not not really any competition between us because there's lots of stuff I can't have to apologists. On the other hand, you know, where there's just a few human fossils, they they tend

to duke it out there. They really duke it out because there's more researchers than there are fossils. I imagine, though you had to really burn some some folks as conclusions when you determined that new species is in fact not a new species but a juvenile of a known species. You know, there's a few people that were irritated by that, I imagine, especially because talk to that a little bit.

Well just you know, it goes back to the paper that was published in you know this this guy named Peter Dotson had had published this, and then people after that sort of forgot about it and forgot that, you know, sort of put that in the back of their mind, that that dinosaurs changed the way they looked through through their growth, just like mammals do. I mean, baby dinosaurs were probably really cute, you know, and and it's kind of that, you know, it's a releasing mechanism, just like

with us. We we will care for our kids as long as they're adorable looking. Right as soon as they reach eighteen, out the door, they go all right, they have to go get a job. But dinosaurs sort of do the same thing. So they retain their juvenile characteristics and then and then go through this pretty rapid change

and take on their characteristics. And so again hardly anyone wrote about that, and so it was it was fodder for the dyslexic guy to uh, you know, bring that up again and start sinking all these species that you know, people had named without thinking about whether they were juveniles or not. Be like analogous to if you in some future where there's no humans and someone went and excavated a household, and like, there's three kinds of people. There's

three species. Ye, these little teacy ones and a medium one and a big one. Because their face looks different, right, very different. Those those people that name those dinosaurs. Are they they look at what you found and they're like bullshit? Or are they like yeah, he's right. Uh, they're they're a little of both. So there's some some buy into it,

some don't. How many dinosaurs are at a certain time, How many dinosaurs were there as kind of the main groups, and then after more of your work and publishing, how many went away? Um, well that's yeah, it's it's hard to say. The Health Creek formation, which is the basically where t Rex comes from, and Trice Sarrah Toops in

eastern Montana. There were twelve major dinosaurs. I mean there were more than that, but twelve that we find quite a bit, and I think I took away four of them, five of them, you know, So I don't know, but you know we're still arguing about some of those. Jack the Ripper would be, you know, a college class. I

tell you he's an anthropology class. The first day, the professor was like, now when I tell you all the things that you think you know about what we do but aren't true, Like we're not all Indiana Jones and we're not all looking at dinosaurs stuff. And he had said something that stuck with me. He was like, you don't go out looking for Noah's Ark and then find

Noah's ark. You got looking for Noah's Ark and then you find the Holy Grail or like, uh, whoever discovers Bigfoot someday, if if he's real, it's not gonna be a guy on animal planet looking for Bigfoot. It's gonna be like some rancher in Texas that found one stuck in his fence because he's looking for he's looking for a lost cow. So what's what's an example like in your field of work where people are looking for A, but they found B and B was really cool. Yeah. No,

we don't. We paleontolo just don't really go out looking for anything. We we just hope that that our mind is open enough then that we're observing enough to find anything cool or anything new. I mean, you just you can't. There's fossils are so rare, I mean, you know, interesting fossils that are that are going to give us information, new information are so rare that you just can't expect

to go out and find whatever you want. I mean, I I I put together this thing called the Health Creek Project back in I guess, and it was the largest paleontological expedition in history worldwide. I mean we had a hundred people, we had we had all these donors um um putting money into it. And the idea was, you know, we were we were trying to figure out how much information we could actually get from one of these ecosystems. And the Health Creek formation has produced so

much stuff for so long. But you know, people had thirty triceratops skulls and they were trying to sort out you know, dinosaur Triceratops growth, for example. But in all of the Triceratops skulls that have been found, none of them were juveniles. All right. Museums had gone out and selectively collected the biggest ones because every museum wanted a big thing in their museum, and so in the end they ended up with none, none of the little ones.

And so our project really was to collect everything. And we went out and collected just enormous collections of stuff. I was hoping we would find a bunch of duckbill dinosaurs because that was what I was interested in studying, and and we hardly found any, but we found a bunch of those damp t rexes. And and so now the Museum of the Rockies has the largest t rex

collection in the world. Right, So I ended up studying t rex, which was not my favorite, but it's what we found, you know, And that's that's basically how the science works. You just you know, I went out to find up bills and found t rexs and triceratops. We found a hundred specimens of t of triceratops. So we learned an awful lot about triceratopsatos that preserve well well it yeah, so well, it looks like they're skulls preserved pretty well, because almost all the specimens we have are

just skulls and very few skeletons. But we realized when we were actually excavating them that, you know, the skull is gigantic and and it's easy to find and and the leg bones could be scattered around by water, right, And so we realized late in this project that if we made our excavation a lot bigger, we probably would have found the skeletons of these things. But we pretty much after we dug up the skull, we were like, let's go find another one. I can understand that. How

do you find them? You just find pieces sticking out of the ground. Most of eastern Montana is the Right Age rock, So you just have to find a place where rivers have cut through. So wherever the Missouri River is cut through, there's brakes, and those brakes are you know, form bad lands, and so those are good places because the rock is exposed there. But if you're up on top of the hills, that's the Right Age rock is

still there. It's just covered with soil and usually somebody's wheat field and they don't like you digging in those. Is there like one thing that you can like, is there is there's like one certain thing you're like that is a dinosaur bone? Because of this thing, like I I spent a lot of time out in like the brakes hell break formation, and I'm like looking at stuff all day long and I have no clue what it is. Like, is there one thing that's like they look like bones?

They do? Yeah, if you find one I found, I'll bet you have found. I'll bet you found a lot of them. Yeah, I found stuff looks like I'm like, that looks like a piece about just a big bone, but I don't know it. Well, they're they're both actually can you explain bracuolitescul vaculites. They're full of them there everywhere out there there they are, uh, an animal related to squid and octopus. So it's a mollusk and and what you're what you're finding is the shell. So have

you ever seen a nautilus? The shell nautilus? That's that's what they're closely related to, Like a cone, ice cream cone on the back and a squid coming out the front right exactly, And so you're finding the shell and and they were prolific in the in the Intercontinental Seaway that that is now Black Shale in Montana. Uh. My sister in law's father has one of those. He picked up decades ago. I was sitting on a shelf and

I was like, the hell's that? And he's like, you know, I've never been able to find out Yeah, of it. Put it on Instagram. Uh. He like works horses and stuff. He doesn't pay much attention to uh, a lot of phones and whatnot. But I put it on Instagram and like thirty seconds later, I was like, that's a what's the word? Back? Then I went to I typed into Google back of Light and hit like images and there's like shiploads of these things he has. The next day

he calls me, he's like, what was that was that? Google? Because he was with the show. Well, a lot of people call me and when I was working at the museum and say I found a rattlesnake, fossil rattlesnake, and that's usually what they were marbaculites. Uh. My kids recently found it was got staggering. Actually, they recently found a giant fossilized clam bed where I can show you, well, I mean in the in the in this state, in this state of the state, there are probably a lot

of those. When were the like I found those before me full yeah, like like like a layers stick broad clam bed. All right, Well, if you tell me the area, I can tell you what formation they're in and and how old they are. I'll show you exactly later. But we're off, we're off to something when we ran into. Just just give me a general life I found. Give me the county. I found him along the Missouri River.

You go, yeah, well in the brakes, right, So that's that that is most likely that same same shell shelle that the that the baculates come out of. And we're those clams walking around or like doing whatever they do where they like siphoning at the time of dinosaurs. Really and some of them are big, I mean there are there are. It's there's a clam called I know seramus that you know it's like the size of that wall

a clam. Yeah. Way back when Steve and I were taking a couple of l a comedians out on a mule there counting Missouri brakes, and I stopped and uh bent over and picked up a fossilized clam, showed it to counter. I said, hey, check that out. He said yeah. So I said, well, it's a fossilized clam. It's a fossil and he said yeah. So I put it back

down and kept walking. How if you look at kids books, kids books about dinosaurs, of which we have more than a few, um, the dinosaur, the more recent the book is, the more colorful the dinosaurs are, and the old books. When I was a boy, they were all green, army green. All your dinosaurs were army green. Now they're like, holy sh it, they look like parrots. Wow, where's that coming from? Well,

I help, A lot of it's coming from me. Okay, well, like what because the fossils aren't read no, so, so like I'm saying, how like, how do we deter walk me through the idea that they were brilliantly colored alright, and not army green? Okay, well, battleship gray, which is what you have to admit they used to be. And they are in Jurassic Park. Oh, their battleship gray. They're you know, they're not very colorful and Jurassic Park. And I pointed that out to Stephen, and he says, well,

he said technicolor dinosaurs aren't scary enough. He thought they'd be more scary and battleship gray. Dude, If if something to me, if if something the color of a thirty ft long or whatever ran up to me, I don't that that's plenty. Yeah. Well, so the idea is that we know now that dinosaurs were feathered, at least the mediating dinosaurs were feathered. We actually have the impression of the feathers. We find the impression of feathers on dinosaurs,

meat eating dinosaurs. We don't know about t rex yet, but but some of the bigger dinosaurs, some of the bigger meeting dinosaurs were completely feathered and kick and and you know, they gave rise to birds, and birds got their vivid coloration from their ancestors, and dinosaurs are their ancestors. So that's the that's the sort of the logic there. The birds are bright, birds have eridescence. I'll have to show you my n f T S. Did you look

up my n F T S? Did? I thought there was I want to say France, which shouldn't be a catch all, but maybe it is for fossils. But I want to say that they were able to like isolate a pigment in fossil and they determined it to be or purple. We're starting to get the melanosomes out of dinosaur feathers and we are determining some of the colors and they are vivid because there are eridescence. Yeah, there

are feather fossils. Correct, but it's an in print or yeah, that's their imprints of the feathers, right, But you can I mean it's just like just like your image. I mean, they're you know, the feathers are feathers. I mean there you can tell. You can look at the veins, you can look at all sorts of things, and you can find the melano sums in them. Hold off, I want to look at the n f T bat I got. Then we'll get into the n f T situation. I

want to see what you think they looked like. But I first, I got I got a time machine question. No one's ever hit you with the time machine question. You get one time machine token. Okay, okay, all right. It's like for an hour long you get an hour long day long visit where are you setting years for? You get to spend one day like, give me location in like time and and why that? Mm hmm. Well, two, you want to to see me being born? It was

a it was a it was a I had a girlfriend. Then, okay, in your professionalsional professionally, in a professional capacity, you know, I've I've thought about this a lot. First off, you know, there's a huge problem with time machines. I won't go into that. You know, it's it's a terrible thing. You you know, time machines pretty much have to orbit the earth otherwise you're in trouble when you go back in time.

But that aside with you that aside um. You know, I just have this terrible feeling that you know, basically anytime you pick to go back, you know something's gonna eat you just as soon as you open the door, right and so so, you know, have of all the things i'd like to see, I guess my saur I would like to see. You know, the first dinosaur I named, and I don't I don't know what that one. What's his gonnosaura? It's a duck bill dinosaur. You don't want

to go back in time and see a duck bill dinosaur. Ye, that's because because then you know it's first off, it's a friendly dinosaur, right, I mean, it's not gonna eat me, and so you know, I might be able to do some some pretty cool research with it and actually determined what it's blood temperature is and and and and look at its behavior and get something about its growth. You know, you go back with the little meat eaters and they're just gonna eat you, and you know that you're not

gonna tell your story. So that would you go back to that showdow area, yep? Would you bring knee high boots or not necessary? Nope, things canna be high and dry. What would the temperature be, Well, it was probably you know, depends on whether it's winter or summer. Right, there's like defined seasons back then, especially at that at that you know that that latitude, I mean it's a relatively high latitude. Even then, give me the hottest day of the year,

probably not as hot as it is now. It would have the temperatures would have been you know, the lower temperatures would have been higher and the higher temperatures would have been lower. So it has been but probably you know, still in the seventies, eighties, but not in the hundreds. I just envisioned everything being hot and steak. Well, it would be sticky for sure because of the inland seaway. So all of that, you know, all the moisture that builds up in the Gulf of Mexico, it was pumped

really north all the way into the Arctic. So we get alliators and crocodiles living in Alberta. M hmm. We're dinosaurs have an offspring in the spring of the year.

We don't know, but that's most likely. I mean that's when most animals do, so they would have there would have been like a hatching season or breeding season, you know how you might know the term for This is my last question before we talk about the n f your your n f T s. Uh, my last question for the n f T S. What is the term for when we have the two different there's two different

strategies parenting strategies for animals. One that their letters and I can't remember the letters, but one would be like exempt, best exemplified by an elephant who uh has their offspring are greatly spaced apart. They put enormous resources into their offspring. Um is it p N Y or something like that. Kay. And then the other extreme would be might be exemplified by uh, let's let's say a cottontail rabbit where high fecundity, big litters off in very little investment into the young UM.

And these are like two strategies. Do you do you feel that with with dinosaurs, Like, is it likely that there were dinosaurs that would spend years with their mother and there was like a like a family group that hung out. Probably, you know, they probably did. UM. We find them preserved in groups, and they probably are family groups, so they you know, they raised their babies and nests right, so they're they're putting a lot of effort into that.

And when we find out like a herd that has died catastrophically, we find you know, young ones, not not babies, but you know, young young like yearlings together with um older adults suggest like families where they're staying pretty much together. Here, take a wild ass guess at what like the biggest herded dinosaurs might have been. Well, here in Montana we have we have the largest that's been recorded so far.

It is it is a catastrophic event that is related to a volcano h and and we have at least a hundred and twenty five thousand carcasses. Yeah, that is wild. I wouldn't think there's that many carcasses in the whole world ever have been found to dinosaurs. We haven't. We haven't found them all we've we've we've sampled over this huge area and we get thirty bones per square meter

and that's from one volcano, from one event. Yeah, it could have been like you were like looking at a her to care where you could have seen like dinosaurs and numbers like that. Yep, man blows the mind. Man, How how have things changed for paleontologies when it wasn't within like the last decade where Montana declared that dinosaur fossils are minerals, which changed some things, but they that they didn't do that. They didn't do that. So how

how we're talking about doing that? And how would have that changed things if that happened, Well, that's hard to say. It would have had implications for picking them up right, and who owns the rights to him? That That was what the argument was. Does something does the person with mineral rights own them or does the person with surface rights on them? And and it they maintained it with

surface rights. Yeah, I don't it's hard to imagine what it would have been like if they hadn't changed that rule. I guess all the oil companies would all own all the dinosaurs. Oh, was that kind of like a financial

play when people were it was? We had it was a dinosaur specimen that was found in eastern Montana on a ranch, and one of the relatives owned the land, the surface rights, and another relative owned the mineral rights, and the dinosaur was up for sale, and they knew they were going to get somewhere around ten million dollars for it. So was that the Dueling dinosaurs? Yes, so what's the status of the Dueling dinosaurs? It was it was bought by North Carolina State University's museum or some

a donor for that museum. So it is now in North Carolina. Have you seen him? I haven't. No, um I commercially collected dinosaur remains are are well. I don't really want to go into all this, but well you could take off DiCaprio. But you know, the thing is is that when when we go to get a fossil, we don't go to get just a fossil. We go

to get data. We you know, we're trying to learn something and so so a specimen is for us is we learn a lot while it's still in the ground, and so we we don't dig them up very fast. We dig them up relatively slow trying to get all

this information. And people that are actually buying, you know, that are selling fossils, are trying to get them, you know, out of the ground as quick as they can with the least amount of overhead, right So, so so that data that we're interested in is basically overhead for them, and so and so they don't always keep all that information or even take all that information that we need, and so and so a out of those specimens just end up as pretty things in some museums that just

show pretty things that don't that aren't into research. And it's not always clear. I mean, you know, there's varying degrees of of of commercial collectors, right some some maybe you know, more apt to collect data, and some maybe you know, wandering onto BLM. So I mean you just never know. You never know where they're getting their stuff, and they don't like to share that information with others

because they don't want their competition. In some of those areas, we never know whether whether the information they are sharing is actually accurate and so so it's controversial. So when the dueling dinosaurs were first found, nobody was saying where it was from, and so people were asking me, well, they showed me a picture and they say, you know, how important is this? And I would say, it's not important to science at all because we don't know anything

about where it came from. And and that of course, the landowners are really mad at me for saying things like that because they were trying to sell it and it caused a big ruckas but you know, it's it just until they actually released the information and let scientists into the site to to get the data, it was useless. And it was that was kind of when I became aware of like the politics of gathering stuff like that, Like I know what happened with Sue in South Dakota.

But then when they dueling dinosaurs happen, and uh, you were quoted saying like they're they're meaningless, like they're not special unless we can look at them. That's when became more aware of that. In the mineral rights saying why why did Mongolia? Why is Mongolia emerged as as sort of like the hot spot for the trade in dinosaur skeletons.

It's just because is it because of a lack of oversighters there like a shipload of dinosaur bones there, both, you know, I I do a lot of work there and and and I have actually Mongolian students that have come and been trained at MSU and then gone back to work in the museums there. Um. They you know, Mongolia has is one of the poorest countries in the world. And they have nothing. I mean they don't. They hardly have any exports. They export Kashmir and and charcoal briquettes.

I mean, you know, they hardly have anything, and and and so their treasures are their fossils and and their historical um stuff and so but they don't have enough people. I mean, you know, it's a it's a it's a country with three million people that's a third the size of the United States. I mean, it's a huge area and hardly anybody lives there in the end. And so poachers go into Mongolia and steal those fossils, take them into China and then ship them to the United States

and sell them. And then we you know, we started realizing and like I said, their national treasures against a law to do that, and so we started reporting, you know, the fact that we were seeing some of these Mongolian treasures in the United States, and so so Homeland Security actually stepped in and helped go out and retrieve these things from people like Leonardo Old and he had a dinosaur get taken away from him. I don't know, I don't,

I don't think was Yeah, he was just chocking. I mean, you can't imagine like that that would make for a good heist movie. Instead of gems their money, they were stealing like dinosaur or I'm there is one man, so you know, so they they I think they've pretty much shut that that down now, but you know, there's still there's a market, and people like to have dinosaurs on their you know, living room or whatever. You wouldn't or you don't, I you know, a museum. I put them

all in the museum my when I was young. My mother was always irritated that I was filling up the basement with you know, dinosaur bones. Did you have some good stuff down here? I had some pretty darn good stuff. I had to get rid of them. And you said you found your first at age five. I found my first fossil at age five. And I found my first dinosaur bone at age eight and my first dinosaur skeleton when I was thirteen. Huh, what was the first fossil? It was it was vaculated. And then what was the

first dinosaur? It's a piece of duckbill dinosaur. There you go. I mean, with all due respect, it's hard to just sitting around at How are you get excited about duck bill dinosas? Tell them how big they were? Yeah, they're they're they're they're pretty cool, and they've got big crests on their hands and you know, thirty forty ft long? You know, you know that you are? You promote that cartoon? Was it Dino Train? What the hell's that? Cartoons? Dinosaur

Trained Trained? Uh? Did you watch that? My kids? Ye watching? Did you see Dr Scott They? Yeah, yeah, he was one of my students. Oh, he'd come on in the end, kind of shucked the corner on whatever they were talking about on the duck Bill episode. Maybe you found this out on the duck Bell episode. They got those things doing like a hoop. Yes, yeah, like they could hoot

and call to one another. You're buying that? Well if that was your idea, Well, no, I think it's a general consensus that they had a large hooting noise that could make the dusky grouse of the dinosaur world. What would make you appreciate them? Sees if you look at the n f T s, I'm thinking, well, some of them make noise. The n f T S are on open c open explain what bust break it down? I I actually, well, I can break down dinosaur. I can't

break down blockchain. I don't understand it. But you are selling a non fungible of what you feel like dinosaurs should look like. What they what you feel they looked like? All right, and the audience can One of the ways to see some of the images of the n f T s is on program at Jack Horner's with an ass dinosaurs, and there people can look at what you think dinosaurs looked like, far scarier than what Spielberg did.

Well they're prettier anyway. Oh, I just want to Jack Horner's dino vision and popped up the Spencer new Heart follows it. Okay, so I want to see it. So where do I want to go? So Jack Horner's Dinosaurs, I go to Instagram Jack Horner's Dinosaurs the real life inspiration for Jurassic Parks. There is again the real life inspiration for Jurassic Parks lead character Dr Alan Grant. Jack

Horner is a world renowned vertebra paleontologists and researcher. And in here are videos and images of what you think these buggers look like? Yep, h are they different? It's differently. I thought they look like, who's this guy that's a t rex? Oh, he looked like a big old turkey. Yeah, he does, big old gobbler. Oh. And then you also have with feathery with a feathery base of his neck. Oh. You can see some of this at at Jack Corner's Yeah,

dino vision at Jack Corners Dino Vision. That one's cute. Huh man to try, Sarahtops your take on is a crazy ass looking dinosaur. Yeah, huh. What do you do with the money from the n f t S. You gonna like donate it to museums and stuff like that, or I have a yah, I have a five oh one c three ah educational foundation that goes into and then we distributed the money too paleontologists in the field and got or science education and talk about how it's

a little bit controversial that you're doing this. We've covered this controversy you have you bet your particular Yeah, just like cryptocurrencies and n f t s. Yeah, something I I don't really totally understand it, but I understand that. You know that that the so called mining of Korean Why don't you We've covered it. You're running enormous amounts of calculations and it sucks a lot of energy and IM and I'm sure it does for a lot of n f t s are released, like by the thousands.

They're talking about crypto. It's it's it's doing the computations necessary for cryptocurrencies. It's taking up a lot of energy. Yeah, yeah, I you know, and I people have been, you know, not very friendly about it. Your students said you are anti environment because you get into n f t s. Yeah. Yeah. What'd you say to them? Well, I, you know, I I told him to explain to me what it was that, you know, it was so bad about him and they and they did, and I said, well it's done. What

can I do about it? And they said, don't do it again, and so you know, huh, but it's how I'm generating money for research. So I don't you know, I'm, I'm and I and I understand that there you know, there's some concern, But I know also that there's a lot of you know, people working on reducing the the environmental impact as well. So you know, can I tell you a little something you might not have turned up in all your research? Okay, no one is pure enough

and no one's pure enough. Yeah, boy, I'll tell you not on Twitter, that's for sure. I got one last question. How does like some guy in his twenties it lives in Bozeman, say, and like works at a media company like get to go on one of these Maybe I'm just just like a hypothetical. Just just keep keep in

touch still technically in his twenties, keep in touch with you. Yeah, Okay, you're gonna take Spencer out digging dinosaurs, take me to if you send these guys home, If you send these guys home with a big tristerratops, go on to be pissed. I'll be out. I'll be out in July. I'll be back up in Montana and I will have excavation up in northern Montana and you're gonna let them bust? Is this really invite? Because don't don't put her out there. He's a rock hunting some bitch man. You bring him out,

he'll find something. You all have a standing invitation. I got my own paintbrushes. Spencer will find like a living dinosaurs. Good, nothing happens in July. You're seriously gonna go. Yeah, Oh, I'm going to Spencer's hardcore rockhound. I didn't know this about. That's a rock hound poser because we spent a lot of time together. He hasn't brought this up to me. No, listen, Spencer, we're gonna do. I'm oftentimes sending Spencer ship like what.

He's trying to establish his bona fides as a rockhound. I yeah, I'm not. I'm not Spencer for sure, but um well, one of the areas well. If Jack comes to me and he says, the boys, where where we look? We can sit on the hill look for dinosaurs and then look out at at the at the modern river and see herds of elk sting like that. You're scouting too. I'm gonna start. I'm gonna start marking spots for fine stuff and taking pictures and sending them to let me

ask you this real quick. This is my last question. I don't you know that clamp the clam bed. Yeah, it's on federal land. But let's just say a feller owned a clam bed. Is that of any significance or those things just everywhere? Yeah, they're mostly everywhere. Okay, try to explain that to my kids to reduce the heartbreak of them not being able to haul off all those clams. Well, you know, they could haul off quite a few of them, and it's okay everywhere, to the point where Blam says that,

like you can take invertebrates. Invertebrates are fine a clam and like I have vaculites from and they're gonna kill me. Because here's the thing. I was just trying to be like instilling them, like you know how you do when you have kids, and uh, well I told them you can't take those clamps. Well clamps kids can fill up a basement pretty quick. They kind of kept the clams not knowing where you were. There are certains around Fort Peck where you can't be taking stuff nothing at all. Mr. Yeah,

I could walk right back up. I could walk right back up to this thing and pass my kids DearS gut pile on the way and in order to have to drive past a lot of clamps. Oh, the spot where I found the big clam bed is right where you guys were hunting. Nah oh, I said, it was my last question. But here's my last question. This is a closer. This gives you a chance to close her out. Okay, what's the next when you crystal ball? Okay? In your field? What's the next big thing that that people need to

find out? Right? So if you have a clue, really we chunk out like this whole bird ship. That's interesting. The feathers and the colors, that's interesting. You don't have any like that that that they could blank or you know, no, no, I just I just hope we don't overlook it. So you don't have a you don't have a hunch. Nope, not a clue. What are you working on right now? I'm I'm interested in, I don't I'm interested in and how dinosaur accouterments, you know, how they grow. It's just

it's like looking at deer antlers. Do you know anything about deer antlers? I mean they are made of I mean the animal just you know, just imagine, I mean, the the animal puts a huge amount of energy into growing these things and then drops them and then starts over the next year, right, I mean a lot of accouterments are kept year after year. I mean it's it's less expensive that way. And and the big shield on

a tricerat I mean it's an enormous structure. I mean, on an adult triceratops, their skull is nine ft long and six ft wide. I mean it's just huge. And and you know, and there parts of them are paper thin, and yet you never find them broken or our heel re healed. I mean, so so it's it's just it's just interesting. We just don't know very much about them. Do you think that there was that there was probably sexual display, and there was probably protection. No, I don't

think any of those accouterments were for protection. I think they were all for display. Just look like a bad mofo to the ladies, because you know, mammals are really because mammals evolved as nocturnal creatures. Most mammals display um physically, right,

I mean, crashing into each other, button each other. I mean that a lot of physical actions and and and and that communication between them is usually olfactory, right there, sniffing one another, birds and other diurnal animals, reptiles and birds and probably dinosaurs were all visual a lot of show. So it was all show, you know, and we see that in birds. I mean, yes, birds, male birds do fight sometimes, but mostly it's the males displaying to the

females and the wild. Think of a of a dinosaur doing like like a dinosaur, like a leck and they're like displaying and strutting, strutting and dancing and singing, and you know, I think the whole works. I think every long. Wouldn't that be cool? Yeah? Well, next time someone asked you the old time machine question, why don't you put that one down breeding season? Breeding season? Yeah, well I got a good answer. I think no matter where, no matter what dinosaur you went to see, I think one

thing it would be is stinky. Yeah, I think. I think those planning dinosaurs and the meaty I just think it was pretty nasty, like the sore up the big long neck dinosaurs. I mean they were those big giant stomachs were fermenting. Oh oh my god, that they were. Yeah, that was that's when there really was a lot of methane. Methane in the atmosphere. Yeah, huh, all right, man, all right,

So I'll see some of you. Let me ask you, though, do you just take any old Tom, Dick and Harry or these guys getting like a special deal to be able to volunteer? Well they look they looked like they could work the jackhammer pretty well. All right, I can be excited to hear about I got my hours on the jackhammer. Not doing that though, No, but jack breaking rocks. Yeah, well I want to hear a report back. When you fellers get back, we're in the pockets full of looted.

You'll come over to my house, they try sere cops skulls sitting on the on the table. Where did you get this? All right? Thank thanks so much for coming out man. We've been looking forward to it. Thank you.