Ep. 237: A Face No Longer Attached

you're theft. Yeah, when you're recovering all your things that were stolen from your house, when you uh, very judiciously or or you know the opposite of that, didn't shoot the people as as they stole your stuff, but you recover some of it. It turned up, yes, Cal's stolen goods. Yeah. And and folks out there, if you've been anxiously waiting for news of this, you were doing a lot better than I was. I'd just fully given up on anything,

but I got a couple of things happened. I got a letter from the credit bureau letting me know that I had been turned down for a Victoria's Secret Pink credit card due to um my credit being frozen, which is something I did uh to prevent any sort of theft because personal information. Not understand what you're talking about. So a bunch of my personal information was stolen. Right.

So I was trying to refinance my place and get all my taxes done and I was just laying out and they just scooped that whole package up took off with it. Oh and then they, masquerading as you, tried to get a Victoria's Secret Pink credit card. Correct. I don't know there was such a thing. Neither did. All the benefits were great. Um, and uh, so that was one thing that happened. And then so I called Boseman

p D And said, hey, that's going on. And then uh, a little while later or several months later, this all happened back in March. Um July fourth weekend. Um, I guess. The Monday after July fourth weekend, I get a phone call from a bank in Billings, Montana, saying, hey, we have your passport here. Did you try to cash your check on Friday? I was like nope, and they're like, yeah, we thought it was a little suspicious. And when we said it was suspicious, the folks trying to cash the

check through the drive through just took off. I was like, okay, and your passport laying there they checks, No, they had, so they had forged a check from a local gas station to me like like a paid like a paste up check payment check with my name on it, and then attempted to cash that using my passport as a valid idea. Um. So I was like, well, that's good information, and had them called the police and gave him the

case number. Then I called the police and and then, um, all of a sudden, they became pretty interested in it because I think it like elevated the crime a little bit, and because now they're out forging checks and they ultimately did make an arrest. And it was just really and I just learned of this today because I finally got somewhere back. Yeah, are you gonna get to confront them?

I doubt it. But it was so funny because the detectives like, yeah, I would really watch your credit because, uh, this guy told me that he's been doing this five days a week, eight hours a day. He puts a full week, he puts in a full week. He's like, just like you are right clocking in at the office. He's like, he has been forging checks eight hours a day, five days a week. Huh. Yeah, how local is he local? Is he the dude that actually stole your ship? Or

do they give your stuff to this dude? I'm telling you from what I saw happen in my garage, Yeah, they would have had to have found a new path in life still in the criminal line of things. Uh, to elevate to check forgery from what I saw in the garage, the folks who robbed the garage, I don't think you're capable of the foragery game. The forty hour week foragery game week for so you might get to

meet someone involved in this criminal enterprise. It's yeah, it's possible if for some reason they want me to test fire or something like that. No, uh, of your heard this story the flip flop Flusher's granddad had a hunting cabin and some criminals, some crooks robbed his hunting cabin. Later the cops caught the guys and this is an interesting move. The cops then bring the guy over, just

drive him over to visit with the grandfather. So says that his grandfather gets a cop comes to the door and says, hey, we got the guy that robbed your place. He's handcuffed in the back of my car. So seth grandfather just gets to go out to lay his eyes on him, poke him with the stack. Yeah, and Seth said that his grandfather said to the guy, you know, I would have killed you if I caught you, And that was how they left it. Wow that that that's great. Always tell that to him to and be like, boy,

you just don't know how closed you were. You didn't have it in me to shoot you. Man. Yeah, what if? Just a funky deal. But anyway, passports back, so it fine. If I was a detective, I would dust that they did. Yeah, so it was dusting it for fingers and I did have a fingerprint on it. Yeah yeah, I assume not mine. Um so, so, uh is it cool at the State Department? Do you get to keep on using your passport even

though it was like compassport number? Okay? Yeah, so no matter what kind of shenanigans they were trying to pull with your passport, It's not like a credit card where they'd like issue you a new one all of a sudden. You just get to keep running. I mean you can go through, jump through a bunch of hoops and get like a new Social Security number, new passport number. But it it takes some some effort and from what like I called the Social Social Security Administration and actually just

phenomenal customer service. Um. But the fellow I talked to, he's like, you know, he's like, this is what we've done for you, Like it's flagged in the system. Um. The way this works is a little funky. Is like, it's still gonna be very frustrating to you. Um. But what we see is somebody's going to hold down a job for a year and not pay their taxes with your Social Security number, and then we'll call you and

be like, why aren't you paying your taxes? And then you'll say, well, actually I have, but here's and then we'll look back in your record, we'll see the thing and you'll be fine. He's like, it's not gonna be fun. You're not gonna like it. But he's like, you'll be fine. You really take it all this quite well. Cal I think it's just so far out of my hands, you know. It's like, I got other things to worry about. And this is like five months in the making. It was March. Yeah, yeah, Spencer,

you don't have c one niner. I don't fresh from the testing ground. I I have the proven cleanest bill of health in this room for COVID. I would imagine when they come in and tell you don't have it, I love it. Do you have did you have a scare? Um? So, my wife and I had cold symptoms over the weekend. But the issue with COVID, right is if you look up symptoms, it's like everything except stubbing your toe is

on the list. So body a headache, cough, And if there wasn't a global pandemic, you would just be like, oh, this is a head giral and and fine enough to like even go into work. Um, but we have a wedding coming up in three days. We wanted to the responsible thing get tested. So we did and he right, Steve like I didn't have any anxiety leading up to

were pretty confident. But then like that fifteen minute wait between like getting swabbed and then like them coming in, then it like starts to build and build and build. Oh yeah, and you get free. They're gonna throw a false positive at fifteen minute. Wait, you can you can get rapid testing, right, there's like standard testing. It's like five to ten days, three days. Ye. Well yeah, the state of Alaska now won't accept rapid tests. They did say it's it is less accurate than the other ones.

It throws a lot of falls. I've heard, I heard, I heard it's get that throws a lot of false positives. Well, that's got a it's got a reputation. I don't know that's true or not. That wouldn't come to me for your COVID information. Uh we So I was telling Calda's

two nights ago? Was it two nights ago? We went down to where my kid fishes suckers and took a spear gun down there and got into the um, got into the water with a spear gun, and like you could see about twelve inches, so the spear guns like two ft long, So all the suckers are zipping in front of your face like sort of between you had to hold a spear gun back behind your head and reach back and pull the trigger in order to shoot the soccers that you can see scooting across your face

mask as you dive through the holes. Somewhere in the manual recommends against that. And then I would, I would. I My buddy Greg Fonds is supposed to be sending me a new Hawaiian, a real stubby. I want a short nose Hawaiian sling. I got an eight footer in the garage. I need a snub nose Hawaiian slang for close work. So we gave up on that. That water is so cold it was it was degrees. My kid didn't think it was cold. Like kids, I don't know what their problem is they getting the cold water down't

know what it's cold. I was so cold I couldn't breathe through my snorkel because we were wearing one. We were wearing one creek where a small mountain stream flows into a bigger stream, and the bigger stream is much warmer, and that small mountain stream is flowing in all silty and cold, and the suckers are all laying in the hole created by the inlet. So when you dive down in that hole, yeah, I got any. I had like forced myself to be able to breathe through a snorkel.

There was that cold. Now the follow up question is going to be what are you doing with suckers? Sucker cakes? Yeah, so I think you should explain sucker cakes because I've I've had some of that. You're amalgamous dip between your um multi species bag that you get sometimes, well, I'll get to the sucker cake thing in a minute, yeah, but I'll walk through that so when you dive down and follow the bottom contour of the whole, like I said, it's just suckers like kind of like banging into your

face masks, but you can't do anything about it. And I was telling my kid, if you misidentify it hit a white fish, you don't fish again for the rest of our lives or whatever, because we'd be in a serious violation because it's a game fish. Anyhow, we bailed on that, much to his disappointment, and came back the next night with rods and reels and after micro scouting, like we knew that this whole head suckers, but our understanding of that whole improved to where like like let's say,

I like, I'm looking at my laptop right now. I used to know there are suckers like on the laptop, but now I know that the suckers are at the letter G. And we went back last night bam bam. He went back with his neighborhood buddy this morning, Bam bam, bam. Mountains suckers in our fridge now and we always talk about in the big game world, like if for a second you could just suck all the trees off the mountain just real quick, because you know there's something there,

but it'd just be nice to know exactly where. I have a different version of that, and it's that if all the animals, you can do it by species, So like all black bears had to shoot a flare up in there, a pink one, and the deer was shooting green one, and that would just be like color blind people, yanni, yeah, so yeah, some kind of whatever, some kind of yeah thing that's new that that's support. So even like Mark Kenyon could participate, and we talked about it back in

the days of Pac Country. We would just imagine just if you're a giant and you could just pick up the mountain that we hunted a lot and jake and turn it upside down and shake it and just see what fell all of it as little kids are la. I'll get back to my soccer story. But the lake we grew up on, our dream was that, um, it was complicated because it required that everybody had to go away. Everybody lived on the lake had to leave because we don't want other people seeing what we were about to see.

Everyone would leave and our lake would drain, and we would have an hour or so to run out and see what all is there, just to take stock, not even to pick anything up, but to take stock of what's there. And we talked about this a lot, and my kid doesn't nobody just talk about this. And we're up at our fish shack, and he was saying, wouldn't it be amazing if we could drain all the water

out of cove and see what's in there? I think about that too, because you're always like, you know, you fish a little bit harder when you're like, I know, if I just try a little something different or whatever, like I'm gonna find like that big one. Wouldn't you just be disheartening if you're like, oh, it turns out the perch in this lake do only get six inches? Because there was a guy named Mr. Playing who lived he had a cabin across from our house's mostly summer cottages.

At the time, Mr Playing had developed a pioneer to technology he called speed trolling. He liked this troll real fast for northerns and he had one of those old fish finders that took a pencil. Whoa you ever see those? We used to have one to my dad had when I was a little kid. It's like a pencil and at the end of fishing, you can take the whole damn scroll of paper and walk around showing people the scroll. It spits out a never ending six inch wide scroll

paper with the pencil. Oh yeah. Mr Playing used to run around with a hunk of this scroll showing that. He's like, there's a five ft in northern in that lake, and everybody bleed him because like technology doesn't lie. It was a big pencil mark and Mr. Playing scroll, So if you drained it, you'd be able to be like, is it or is it not? That guy used to catch shiploaded pike. I'll tell you what speed drawn we We had a version of that that's not quite as satisfying.

It's just like draining the entire water body. But whenever, for the U S Fish and Wireless Service, we had a lake in southeastern South Dakota that it got too over on with trash fish like every type of carp grass carp common carp silver car big head carp um, and then they just like cleaned out all the vegetation was an incredibly popular body of water for people in

that area, so they decided to kill off the entire lake. Um. So we went out there with roting known which is like takes I think it takes the oxygen out of the water and it kills all the fish and then everything comes on the surface. Well what is it. It's derived from a South American plant. Oh, and it inhibits the fish's ability to remove oxygen the water. So it's like it's like messing with their gills. You mean you don't even fish like that. Yeah, I've seen the video. Yeah,

but we did that, and it's like steel poisoners. We did that in this entire lake and you're like, oh, while I in here, like, oh man, there are way more perch than you would think, and like, well, like this the rosier picture than what you expected. Um, with the exception everything being dead. Yeah, that's right, that's right. Uh. And they don't they don't come back to life like when you're shocking them. When well, that may or may not be because where we witnessed it, the effects wear off.

They would go to a side slough and they would rock off the tributary leading into the side. Slow poison the side slough and they were saying that if you open a back up and let water come in, the fish will pull out and be fine. Yeah, and that was part of this. This lake had some like natural springs that we had to constantly keep wroteing known like right there where that fresh water was coming in, gotcha to keep it lethal. Have you ever shocked fish when

you're in that old job? Oh yeah, plenty. Yeah, that's interesting too, that you can you can shock fish and not kill them, but you get your settings a certain way, and a beaver might come by and you'll like waylay that beaver because the voltage is set where would be lethal for a beaver but not lethal for a fish. One of the really uh like surprising parts of that is we shocked for flatheads specifically one day, and they take like a much lower voltage than most fish, which

was bigger, really surprising. You would think that like, uh, like, okay, we're gonna go find pan fish, right, so let's just like crank this thing down. But now we're gonna go seek out flatheads, so we gotta crank it way up and just make sure we're like shocking everything in the area. But that's not the case, it's bigger at once lower like if you jumped in there, you'd be screwed. If

you got to shock at small fisher situation too. Uh. Shocked the South Fork of the Snake, like extremely extremely popular Stretcher River um on the South Fork of the Snake in Idaho, and shocked with Idaho fishing game. And it was with the head of Fisheries and Brent High or Brett High and uh, he's he's like a local Blackfoot, Idaho guy, and I'm just amazed at how many fish come up to the surface in this very small side

channel that we wasn't shocked. And he's like, oh yeah, He's like everybody talks about how there's four thousand trout per mile. He's like, but there's also seven thousand white fish per mile, He's like. And then he's kind of like went on and on and on. It was just an insane amount of life, but it is um. Yeah, unless you get to witness shocking, it's like you just can't fathom how much life is in some of this stuff.

I was in the Philippines and we're doing Uh. I was doing a magazine story where I was with this crew and they were doing like a first descent, you know, down the river, which is cool. It was fun and in Central Highlands will lose on island and one day we're just camped down the river bank and we're with this. It's this area that's like the Klinga tribe lives there, so you have to kind of get permission from the Klingon and then the Klingon would make you take other

like take Klinga dudes. We have these two dudes, these two Kolinga dudes with us on this trip. And some guy they know we were camped down the beach and some guy comes along. They knew who the guy was. And this guy comes along. He's got a giant he's got a backpack made out of a giant thing of a giant detergent bottle, like if you bought a huge square thing of laundry detergent kind of container, right, and he had it made into a backpack with ropes and

in it. He had car batteries coming off the car batteries. He had two handheld wands, and he's got a dude with him that has like a beat packing two batteries. He's got two batteries, two car batteries damned, and a backpack and two metal wands, and he's got a dude with him who's got a mini beach saying hooked on

two sticks. And these guys come down the river and he would get up on a rock and his body to get up on a rock, and then his body would stick that beach saying down below the rock, and then he would wave those wands all around under that rock and it come in and slow that dude to lift that beach saying up and ship loads of shrimp and crabs in there like electro shocking them out of there.

And they got a big it's a long story. We wand up with a bunch of this stuff, the shrimp crabs, and the guy's gotta they get a big log burning and they roll the log over so it's ember side up and then just lay all that ship down that log on the glowing embers and just lay there for a while. Then that's a great move. No, yeah, And I had all my fish and equipment with me because I was like, I'm gonna catch so many fish, like first ascent of a river. Like listen, man, there's not

a thing in those rivers. Everything is dead you'd go to a fish market there. It's like their fish market is stuff the size of your pinky, like, oh, and a whale shark, but like there's no sort of like all the things because they fish with poison, fish with explosives. It's like a myth that, um, the myth that like developing nations would somehow have uh you know, pristine resource pools. It's a myth. People are hungry, man, They just kill

everything anyway you can get your hands on it. Buddy of mine is fishing the Ontaman Islands, which is uh like uh kind of a border uh series of islands owned by India, And the guy was explaining to him the fishery, like why that spot is so good. He's like, yeah, there's no arsenic fishing here m hm. And yeah Michigan kid, buddy of mine is like arsenic fishing. And I was like, yeah, no, arsenic like gets a big deal. And he's like, hey, yeah, I would imagine it's a bad Her back to my

soccer is real quick. The so I think I'm making a video tonight with my kid on how we make soccer cakes. So hear me out, you flay the socker. You got a sucker flay. Then you remove the rib from the soccer, just like take the rib bone off. Then you skin the soccer. Now you have a sucker flay that's still riddled with the insane number of bones that live in soccer flays. Then we cue it up

and like half inch pieces. Put that raw, pack it into a food processor raw and you put a bunch of trout in there too, pack it if you want, pack it in the food processor and turn the food process around and leave it in there until that raw fish has turned into a batter. It's like a batter of raw fish. While you making that face, it's not it doesn't sound very appetizing. Okay, let me put it this way, and then you make a moose m O U S s. Yeah, but still U S s out

of raw fish moose. Still doesn't sound appetizing. But but I'm I'm following there's a version where raw fish batter doesn't sound. I'm sure it's gonna get good. This is the best recipe, perhaps the best recipe ever invented. But I'm just telling you, there's nobody that right now is now listening in their car. And when you described food processing soccer meat and drought meat raw. They're like, oh,

did I take my raw fish? And I pull it out and I put it into a mixing bowl to which I add bread crumb, eggs, prepared horse radish, mayo, herbs, and all kinds of other good ship to eat, little sour cream if you feel like whatever, hot sauce. How does the fish batter smell? It smells very clean clean. Yeah, it smells very clean. Um, they are a wonderful The problems with sucker I should start by saying that's the

problems with suckers are that the texture. People people are not crazy about the texture, and people are definitely not crazy about the bones. So it's a mushy piece of fish that's bony. But by going through this process that I'm here talking about, those things become not an issue. So I got my bread crumb, egg good stuff to eat, horse radish and all that. Then I make little little teeny uh flattened patties. So I take I make about what you a meatball? I make a meatball with this batter.

I flatten the meat ball into something that resembles the sort of dimensions, the relative dimensions of a pancake. But it's much smaller fits in the palm of your hand. I then roll this and coat that and panco then I cook it in a pan until the pan was golden brown. Then you now have something that's like if if the people at Long john Silver's actually knew how to cook. It's that crispy, right, crispy outside, beautiful like

fluffy inside. You've taken us, You've transported us, dude. Is one of the best recipes to ever be invented, and I'm thinking about filming it tonight. So what fish can't you do this with? I don't know, do with anything? You do with anything. We call them soccer cakes for the reason. You know what I screwed up. I screwed up a big chunk of halibut that you gave me the other day. By the way, you're I mean, I'd do it the same way because you just get sick of bag and fish. But my god, that's a huge

Those are giant portions. Well those are those are family packs, man, They're not meant for a single man. So I take you know, it's I'm like, I wanted to take on the challenge of cooking this whole huge chunk al but um, you know perfectly, and I had a thermometer in there and was doing it on the trigger um, which I believe gives you even more leeway. And uh consequently pulled it before the thing even got to Tampa according in the temperature, because I just knew something wasn't right, and

sure enough it was super dry. But I turned that into uh, you know, basically like fish sandwich. Yeah, and absolutely phenomenal, very very good, to the point where I'm like, this is what aliment should be good. Yeah. I feel like with those big chunks, you gotta slice him in a half sideways. Yeah, Oh, I Spencer explain. I can't figure which of these things I want to explain first, Oh, bad news for the um the squirrels eating dots off other squirrels, and even reveal this now that I think

it's for another time. Spencer has not like that you even brought it up. Spencer has not found a researcher yet who knows what he's talking about. You need to keep You need to do what you're doing science. When you get an answer, you don't want to go to the next researcher. Eventually you wind up. You need what you'll do what corporations do is you'll need to go hire a researcher and tell him I need you to demonstrate to me that X is true. Got it? And

they're like, got it? So we'll leave that one hanging. Our article forthcoming on if if squirrels bite the nuts off of other squirrels and just say that yes, knowing that they do, it'll be an exploration of of the truth of that, the truth of that, And you better keep working until you find the right person to talk to who satisfies my curiosity. But in the meantime, explain, explain the zone of death situation. The Zone of Death

is part of our Barroom Banter series. And I'm biased, but our barroom manter stuff is my favorite stuff on the Meat Eat Your website. Actually, I'll make a number two Pet Dirk and anything Pat Dirkin writes is number one. That's my favorite, and then barbroom banter stuff is my second favorite. And barroom banter is meant to be wisdom that will make you seem smart and interesting from a bar stool when you're shooting the ship with your buddies

and you're like, well, did you know this? Do you know squirrels we'll actually bite like that stuff like that exactly. Who's who's playing on my toes? Oh yeah, sorry? So the the zone of death. Um, first, when you talk about yellow Stone actual park and it's mapping. If you're not familiar, you don't live in bow has been like us. Um, you might not know this, but Yellowstone extends into three states. Of it is in Wyoming, two is in Montana, and one percentage in Idaho. And this is bad. Never heard

the percentages before? This is because but but it predates the states. Yes, eighty two Yellowston National Park was created. It wasn't until twenty years later that those three states gained statehood. So does unless I've never understood this well either, But are you gonna explain how like where, how the like what the state's role actually is in these states? The states don't have much of a role at all, it turns out, and that's that's all sort of part

of what creates this zone of death. Okay, So I would I would argue that the most interesting part of Yellowstone is that one percent in Idaho, despite it not having a road, it has one road that's sort of like goes through the very corner of it and that's it. Other than that, it has some trails, It doesn't have any campgrounds. Um, it has like one notable lake, it butts up to some other like notable things like the

Nada Falls. It's very popular hiking destination in that part of Yellowstone, but it's not technically in Idaho or the Zone of death. So I'm following. Okay. When Wyoming was created, the US Court System decided to give all of Yellowstone to Wyoming's District Court. So the entire National Park, including the sections that are in Montana and in Idaho, are part of the Wyoming Court district. Okay, got it? Um? Should I say my questions? Um? I think so? I

think so. Alright, So, so all of all of Yellowstone is in the Wyoming Court District. Looks utterly baffled. Well, I'm waiting patiently. Okay, okay, all of Yellowstone is in Wyoming's Court district, despite the park being in three different states. Now here's what would happen in this Zone of death if you murdered somebody. Okay, say you were in the Idaho portion of Yellowstone and you murdered somebody. How did we get there? This? This will explain there. Yeah, this.

This looks like I say to Johnny, I'm like, hey, you know good uh huckleberry spot Yep, yep, you might want to go there at Monday at ten. I'm more men like explaining district courts to murder. Okay, so this this this hypothetically you drive, Yeah, this this hypothetical, we're steven. Yeah, logical. Well you know about the states, the percentages and then the killing of another human being, so obviously you're thing Okay,

So yeah, ford Za connection, Forza connection. This place, there's this place in it happens Steve and Yanni are looking for huckleberries over there illegally. I imagine you can't go pick huckleberries and yellows. No, like there's a lot of Yellowstone is a place where you can't. You go to not be able to do things. But I believe that you can. I think can pick a berry. I can't pick up a deer antler. I was just there with a park biologist and we found several arrowheads, bunch of

shed antlers. We touch that stuff, can't touch. It can't touch shed antlers, can't touch. I believe you can same way that you can catch fish in certain areas and keep them. Like, in fact, if you catch lake trout and Yelston Lake, you can't not keep it. The fish is a good comparison. That's that's a good You can eat a are in that park. Okay. I'm not sticking up for the park. I wish it would just become national forces. We can start close to it, Okay, on

ideological grounds. So you guys, you guys are legally or illegally looking for huckleberries in Idaho's portion, say let's let's keep the story going and just say that, Uh, you don't know what we're doing with them, but we are looking for huckle bay Okay, not necessarily picking and eating them. Identifying huckleberryes in Idaho's portion of Yellostone National Park is fifty square miles. It's really small. It's just a little slipper. You barely even see it on the map. You guys

over there looking for huckleberries. Steve Kills Yanni, why, um, just like you, I don't know, disagreement over whether you're not You guys can eat huckleberries jealous of it's more entertaining, like years of angst on us kill Steve Kills Yanni, Steven I think years of like I I like, how do I do it? And I just strangled, flat out stranglem in the huckleberry bush and then I bury him as they do in the woods in a As Norm MacDonald points out, it's always a shallow grade. That's a

great one. So I put him in the shallow grade, put the grid. It's gonna come dig me out. And Steve fest is up to it. Immediately he says, I did it. I did it. This is where he's at. I did it. Everything that you're hearing is true. Steve tells that to some sort of law enforcement. They take you to Cheyenne. Okay, Cheyenne, Cheyenne, Wyoming. That's the state capital, that is the hub of the District of Wyoming's court system. Okay, is it not a federal crime because all of Yellowstone

National Park is in the Wyoming court District. Okay, entires. So they take you four hundred seventy miles southeast to Cheyenne, Wyoming, and then Steve says, well, the sixth Amendment allows me to have a speedy, uh and fair trial. Right. So then they're like, okay, well here we go. We're gonna get this trial set up Now there is also the vicinage clause, which means that you have the right to a jury that comes from the district and the state

where you committed your crime. So what we now have is this incredibly tight ven diagram of the state where you committed the crime is Idaho, and the court district where you committed the crime is Wyoming. So now the prosecutors have to find a jury from within that fifty square mile stretch of Idaho. Being on the jury that's Elliston. Now here's the probably in there. There's there's not a

single person that lives there. So you are now allowed to go free because they cannot give you a fair drawer, a fair trial made up of your peers that came from the court or excuse me, that came from the court district and the state because they could only exist in that fifty square mile area. You know, you run the fact Checker series, you run the barroom Banner series. I think that there needs to be sort of a post modern sort of mash up where fact Checker fact

checks barroom. So this this because I just don't I don't believe it. This legal loophole was brought up by a Michigan State law professor in two thousand five in an article that he published. I called him yesterday to talk about this, and Uh, I had asked him, like, if there's been any more in the Georgetown let me find the Georgetown Law Review or something. Georgetown Law Journal two thousand five. Brian coult is his name, and he's like he wrote a piece being like, hey, you know

what murder someone. Initially he was looking at, um, how if you come in a crime within a certain distance of like a county line in a lot of states, you can actually be tried in the other county despite it not happening in that county. And he was looking at how that can cause issues with The example he was looking at was a crime that happened in Detroit that was like kind of in the suburbs, but sort of in an urban area, and it had a lot

of racial tension in that area. And so depending on where this crime, UH was prosecuted at, would like totally change what the outcome could be. That's what he was starting to look at. And then he came across, UH, this whole thing with Yellowstone and this issue. Now this would not happen, say you guys had the same scenario, but this happened in the Montana portion of Yellowstone, that two percent of the Yellowstone National Park that's in mind. We'd have a we'd have it would be all people

from Gardener. There's actually forty one people, forty one adults that live in that zone. So they could you'd have you telling me you'd have to go and that's your jury pool. Yes, yep, they they would have to find so and this this was actually in two thousand you know, is if this ever happened, it could only be it could only be tried to find that amount of times, because the first thing they ask you during your juror interview is have you ever served on a Yeah, you

could try. You could do it three times, assuming that all forty of those people are eligible jurors and nobody knew moves into the area. That's right as well. So Brian Coult brought up this issue in his two thousand five or article, and it was actually used in the court of law. I think it was in two thousand seven or two thousand eight. Somebody killed an elk in Montana's portion of Yellowstone National Park and his lawyer, who

is now deceased. UM had brought up this Brian called paper about the zone of death UM and how his trial should have to take place in the Yellowstone portion of Montana because that's where the crime happened at and how they would have to get a jury from that area. UM. The prosecutors had acknowledged that, like, this is an issue. We this is going to be like a lot of work for us to make this happen and like bring

charges on this person who shot this elk. And so they offered this guy a plea deal, basically saying that like, you can't fight this any further, UM, and you know, if you take this then it's over with, right. But he had said that, like this issue came up then and it was a big problem unresolved. It was left unresolved. And so I said, when in me killing Yanni, I could do like I'll do aggravated assault, but I'm not

doing murder. They'd be like, okay, bro it it would be it would it would like certainly drag out much longer than that. And this guy who shot the elk chose that option. He chose not to drag it out and just took the plea deal. But this probably caught believes that he could have uh forced their hand and made them have the trial in this portion of Montana

where he killed the elk. Now. I asked Brian if he would feel responsible for something or like what what his feelings would be if Steve did gil go kill Yanni while they were searching for huckle berries, and he said, it's been it's been fifteen years. He would be really really piste off if this happened because the government has not acted on it. And Congress, he said, if they decided tomorrow they wanted to change this, they could changes it would take like three lines that he his example,

he said to take five minutes. Wouldn't literally take five minutes, but he said he would take five minutes. That's how quick this would be to fix this issue. Who said to the zone of death? He didn't because he discovered it and and his discovery of this has like uh it it inspired a best selling novel, a New York Times bestselling novel called free Fire, and author from Wyoming wrote a book where an attorney goes and he kills four campers in a zone of Yellowstone that has no

jurisdiction over Huckleberry's I don't know. It also inspired a movie. I can't remember what it's called, like One Provision or something like that. And now people are telling me, are you guys familiar with the TV series Yellowstone? Yeah, that show it. It came up in the Sunday episode like three days ago. They talked about They refer to it as the train station. I believe so that it's not for a lack of awareness that the government hasn't changes.

He said, they just um like drag their feet. They don't think it's a big deal. They think that if something did happen, they could still like manipulate wording and understandings to still get a prosecution. And he just basically said that's no way to treat the constitution. And so he would be really piste off if something happened, but basically said the blood would be on the government's hands,

not his own. Mm hmm. It's dark. Yeah, work on your hypothetical though, because you could have just had Steve killing Elk and it would have been fine. Let's work

on this. This is more exciting thought. It's not that it's not the zone of death, not the zone of Elk death, all right, right, And they're like, Okay, the cost to the county or the state of Wyoming in order to to prosecute this the way it should be is going to far exceed what we what we can afford, basically, So I asked Brian if like their lack of changing this is just pure laziness or what it is, and he said, it's it's a lot laziness, but there is

a point to be made where someone didn't feel inspired to change this. A few years after, Brian brought everyone like national attention to in two thousand five, and he said when they looked into changing it, that what would then happen is Yellowstone would have some portions that are now in the ninth Court Circuit and not the tenth.

Wyoming is in the tenth Montana and Idaho or in the ninth and when it comes to like environmental issues, that could like cause a lot of problems and open up like some potentially big things that could happen because now Yellowstone things can like but that already has they already bring it to the ninth because they bring they bring those lawsuits to the ninth because they know they the like the anti hunting crowd brings lawsuits to the

is it the ninth that's in Missoula. Yeah, Like, if you suon against the grizzly bear de listing or soon against wolf de listing, you always want to make sure it lands in Missoula because then you'll get a judge who was like, oh, I don't want anybody to hurt those poor things. And if you sue in the lands of Wyoming, they'll be like, Wow, we're gonna go with

States Rights Mountain wildlife management. So that was that was never the intention of this too, Like we're gonna manipulate the so it gets in the tenth Court District or anything like that. That's just like now a product, product of it, and a reason that they likely will never change it. Okay, two more geographical ones for him, walk me through. Um, mcfarthest, mcfarthest. Have you guys heard of this before? Only from you, buddy? Okay, Oh you didn't

coin that term. No, No, A statician did. In two thousand nine. He coined mcfarthest statistician statistician good correction. Uh. He coined that term in two thousand nine when he was looking for what he thought might be the most remote place in the lower forty eight. How how would you guys measure remoteness. Oh, I've been to the most remote place on the continent. No, we're talking lower for well, I can tell you they did. There was a lot of factors that went into it. It was like proximity

human population, proximity to road, proximity to fuel. And they came out with this thing that it was. You know, in the um if you go up the Koebuck River to the head of the Koebuck River and then over top of the Brooks Range and get to the other side, I think you wind up in this little area they call like the remotest place in the continent. But no, I don't know. He goes by how he goes by how far it is from a McDonald's. That's that's what

he wanted to say. There's a number of different ways you can measure this, right, Like, if you want to do the furthest you can get from a road. Uh now a segue here that would actually land in Yellowstone in the other corner of the park. Yeah, yeah, in the southeast corner where the zone of death is in the southwest corner. Gotcha. So that's that's one way you can measure it. Uh, surprisingly like you wind up in the you'd wind up in the um thoroughfare. M hmm.

What that zone is called other ways as far from a road, that's the furthest from a road in the lower forty eight in the southeast corner of Yellowstone. If you want to look for the least populous county. This really surprised me and landed in Texas. Love County has a hundred and thirty four people. That's point one six seven residents per square mile. No ship, Yeah, that sounds like Cal's kind of place. Is that the Panhandle of Texas or in the you know, the stake planes there.

I couldn't tell you, Yana Sticato, Loving County, Texas, Yanni, if you wanna, if you wanna find it, no kidding. Yeah, So that's because Alaska doesn't have counties, they have boroughs. That's a couple of ways you can measure remoteness. But this this person decided it's the furthest you can get from McDonald's. And the cool thing about it makes his

job really really easy. The cool thing about measuring remoteness that way is that it can move around then and whatever that spot would be is then mc furthest so in his first version of the map in two thousand nine, he found that mcfarthest landed in northwestern South Dakota, which is basically the same when we talked about three toes of the Wolf or where Hugh Glass got mauled. Right there on the ground on the right, right there. Yep,

that's where the first inclination of mcfarthest landed. But then he looked back at the data about a decade later and realized that there was a McDonald's closure in Nevada that then moved this. Why were they clothes of McDonald's. So I touched on this in the barroom banter. I went to their YELP page, which still existed despite them being closed for a number of years, and it had like, uh, let me see he it had fifteen YELP reviews averaging one point five stars. I'm gonna read you some of

the quotes here from from the reviews. Uh Spencer, Spencer, thank you, thank you, so, Wendy said, she said, quite possibly the worst McDonald's on the planet. Paul said, atmosphere three stars, food, one star, service two stars, but the whole, the whole brand, and promise that McDonald's is just the same. No, it's like it's it's the same no matter where you go, Like,

how do you mess it up? Like we we give you the giant bag of fries, do you take the fries and put it in our proprietary oil blend, in our proprietary friar. This it's meant to rule out, it's meant to like rule out human error. This seems as I was like a culture thing, like it just didn't didn't work there. So Jason in his review said, my worst McDonald's experience ever. And then what's interesting about the reviews is they're coming from people who like McDonald's. They're

coming from mcmcdonald's fans. They know the baseline of McDonald's. These aren't people like I had never heard of this place, but my god, these are play people who are like let down, let down by the McDonald's experience at that particular McDonald's go on. My favorite review, though, came from Allison, was one of the last reviews left of this McDonald's. She said the cashier Cody was more stoned than a boulder. He had hickeys all over his neck. Well done, Cody's girlfriend.

So that was one of the final interviews and likely why this McDonald's got shut down so mcfarthest because this McDonald's clothes moved eleven hundred miles southwest from northwestern South Dakota to halfway between Las Vegas and Reno. And at this new locale you can now get thirteen miles further from a big mac. What's that exact locale look like? The exact locale it is on now on BLM Land and it's actually right on the edge of Area fifty one, so you can you can go reach this place if

you wanted. Uh. So it was like a wild horse and a martian that's right standing there right now. This is what the person wrote in eighteen when they updated the make farthest location, they said, at its center, by my calculations, forty minutes of washboards south on the Extraterrestrial Highway, and a few clicks to the civilian side of the greater Area fifty one perimeter fence, you'll find lower forty eight's current mcfarthest spot, a sandy swatch of silver gate

sage brush just over one hundred twenty miles. As the crow flies from the nearest McDonald's how's the business one? It was actually pretty surprising. You would think that you can get further than a hundred and twenty miles from McDonald's.

That's it. Do you remember now? I don't know, because the reach of McDonald's really struck me when we were UM one of the Remember, I think Obama took steps to normalize, you know, normalized relations with Cuba, UM, which I think will eventually happen because I think people are most people in America have forgot, they've forgotten why we're real mad at Cuba. But anyways, they were gonna like the hatred, the hatred Waynes. But I remember hearing and

that's not a big island. I remember reading this article was talking about Western you know, or like American corporate world's plans for normalized relations with Cube, and I remember reading that McDonald's was planning on going into Cuba lightly with twenty four stores or like some plan and I was like, that's light. So then I thought there must

be just a lot of McDonald's is around. Man, if you want to go visit mcfarthest I put it's uh, I put a pin for it in the article on our website's bar room banter Colin mcfarthest the furthest you can get from McDonald's. The closest town the McDonald's that close. It's Tona, paw, Nevada. So if you do go there, you're you're still in good shape because there is a burger king and a subway in that town. Oh, they have a two they have a two s. It's a

little cute. See it's a little cute. See. I think he needs to find another way to figure out the remotest spot. I like this one. I really like this one. Um, it's a little far. It's a little outside of our wheelhouse. Uh here at me eater. But I think that a good fact checker spencer, when you finish up the squirrels, how they bite, how they do bite the balls off squirrels would be would be are there really twenty four ingredients or whatever the hell it is in McDonald's French fries.

I didn't Well, I don't know if i've heard that claim. Is that like some old marketing that I wouldn't be familiar. I don't think it's the thing that they're proud of. It's damn sure. Not a potato and some salt and oil it's they make a slurry. They make a slurry and then form that slurry back into the shape of a French fry that gets frozen and fried nineteen ingredients. Is that true? That would be a good one for you.

And I Loving County was in the Panhandle. The Yana westicado stick planes for you people that don't speak that whatever language, asticago is Okay, one more for you, Spencer, one more, one more thing I'd like you to explain. Okay, the most instagram places outdoor places in America. This is another article that I wrote as part of our Barroom Banter series. And uh, this this isn't something that's like new coverage. Um, the USA Today has looked at a

similar thing before. Other websites have looked at this. They've always looked at like the most Instagram places in the world, the most Instagram places in the United States, things like that. But nobody he has looked at the most Instagrammed outdoor places in each state. So that's that's why this list

was unique. And I gathered this by looking at what The USA Today had already done some other websites, and then also using data available from Instagram with hashtags and tags and things like that, and looked at the most instagram in places in every single state. And here's another segue. Wyoming's was, of course Yellastone National Park. So it all connects. Did did you guys look at this list at all of the most instagram places we're waiting to talk about.

I'm looking at it right now. Okay, okay, is there anything that stands out to you? Like, what do you think of Michigan's Michigan's is Silver Lake sand Dune State Park. No, that doesn't check out. No, that that doesn't surprise me, It doesn't shock me. Yeah. So from the fifty that I gathered here, there were fifteen state parks, ten national parks, eight beaches, six lakes, three city parks, three national forests or monuments, and then five miscellaneous locations. And the miscellaneous ones,

uh were examples like I think Hawaii had a volcano. Um, what was another one somebody had? Uh? There was just some some oddballs like that. But my favorite miscellaneous ones were in Nebraska and Iowa and as the South Dakota, and I'd like to rag on those states any chance I get. In this list made it real, real easy because Nebraska's most instagrammed outdoor place is Volos pumpkin Patch, which I thought was really great, really, I really enjoyed.

Why is that, I wonder? I don't know, especially when you look at the states next door right, like like south Dakotas is Badlands National Park, which is an incredible area. Uh, and then you just get a little bit south and you have Valist pumpkin Patch in Nebraska. I was, well, pumpkin patch might be one hell of a place. Maybe. I'm I'm so intrigued by finding that out. I want to go next time I'm i'm driving through car is the bridges of Madison County. Yeah, and there's a picture

of these in the article. Did you look at the picture? It's it's six of these rural bridges that are apparently very popular to go take pictures in front of and tag it's certainly like probably the most unique place. Well, you know, there's that old love movie the Bridges of Madison County. I did come across at looking the sun. I don't know if that's that's why, or if this is just like that's that's totally why. It's because of

the Old Love movie The Bridges of Madison. How old is it though, and is it would it like from my lifetime? Yeah, it does seem something appreciate that. I think this is like Sorority Girls in nearby cologies that like, I think it's a cool place. I don't think some old movie. It's a good point because the people that

love that movie probably aren't instagramming too much. Now, White Sands National Monument in New Mexico surprises me a little bit because there's so little it's a hard place to get to and there's so little traffic going through there. It's stunning. You can see it on like you know, you can see it from outer space, you can see it from real high satellite imagery like this like weird

ass patch of white in the state. But it surprises me that people that that it's that it's difficulty to get to didn't change that didn't make it a lower score. That's probably one of like there's not very many examples on this list where like we would actually want to go to and hang out. These are like very popular areas obviously, as as you can see on the list

the lakes. The Lakes were like a cool example though, because pretty much every lake on this list has like really quality fishing like Martin and Alabama, like Norman in North Carolina Lake they Ozarks and Missouri, like Mini Tanka in Minnesota, Kentucky Lake in Kentucky. Those are all like regular spots for bass fishing tournaments. They all have like some of them have good whalleye fishing. So like, as far as places we would actually want to visit, I think the lakes are are a few of the a

few of the examples on this list. Did uh when you pull this list together, did you feel, um, proud of your fellow man or did you feel disappointed by your fellow man in his predictability? Mm hmm, that's a good question. Um. Part of the list though, is like also manipulated by me, Like I could have left out beaches in city parks if I wanted, but there was just like an overwhelming like what you would count as

an outdoor place. There's just like an overwhelming amount of states where those were like head and shoulders above something like a state park or a national park or something like that. So when you see all the city parks on the list and the beaches, it's a little bit disappointing that like that those are you know, some of the most popular Instagram places, meaning like for New York to be Central Park, is the Central Park count as

an outdoor place? Right? I think that the people who go to Central Park, they would argue that it very much does. That's what I'm saying for for some people, like the beach or a city park is the outdoor So I felt like that's why those were worth including. If you want to see the full list all fifty of these again, this is on our website. Barroom Banter the most instant grammed outdoor places in each state. Thank you very much. I really like the uh the graphics

that someone did for barroom Banter. That's a whole big conspiracy that what's the conspiracy that it's based off that bar in Miles City. He told me that we used to spend a great deal of time and that is who did it. The Montana Bar. It's just called the Montana Bar. It's down the rope from the Bison Bar. I used to practically live there. In the window, they

have an audubon. They have a full sized amount of what's regarded as a as an extinct big horn sheep species, the autumn the audubon sheep, which now they also got a lot of stuffed heads of trail steers that used to do that. They used to run on the trail runs from the Texas up to Montana. For the double winter. They got some leads steers in there. There's a bullet hole in there still from when someone there was some

kind of shooting in there there. That's the thing you could do too, is famous bullet holes and bars, because you know, here's the deal is frequent in many of them. The Slippery Noodle, Independianapolis. There's a bullet hole in Lake Independence or Independence Lake by Marquette in Michigan. You know the um You know Robert Travor, the writer, and he wrote Anatomy of a Murder. You know the story Anatomy of a murder. The Anatomy of a Murder is based

off an actual murder. It's like and Jimmy Stewart. They did a film and Jimmy Stewart played the prosecutor in Anatomy of Murder. And it was written by a novelist who he was an avid fisherman and wrote a lot about fishing, but he actually not He wrote a novelization of something that actually happened to him in his life. And there was a guy and a woman living at a campground, and the guy was stationed there to work, like on a some kind of military installation, and his

wife and he's off working. Very jealous husband. He's off working, and supposedly he gets concerned that his wife is running around with some other dude who's living at the campground. On the night of the murder, she like sees a bear in the campground, gets a little scared by the bear. I could be getting certain parts that's wrong. But I've been to all these places. I slept in the campground,

went to the bar. He She gets nervous about a black bear hanging around the campground, and that's why she explains she had to head down to the bar. That's her story, the bears in the campground. Therefore I went to the bar. Other folks believe that she was down in the bar because she had taken to She had established in a morris is that is that the right word? Amorous and amorous relationship with some local heavy. The irritated husband goes down there, he kills the guy and the

bullet hole. Supposed he's still in the bar when I went in there. And I said, I want to see the bull hole. The guys said, well, the problem is, you know this is the whole everybody says is the bull hole behind the bar, But back then the bar was around that wall. So he's like, I don't know. He goes, you know, you're the first guy to come in here and asked him about the bullet hole in the bar. But yeah, the great movie Anatomy of a Murder.

Jimmy stewart'son. He's always fishing. Brook shot wrapping him up in newspaper. Have you never seen this? Never seen it? I'm in there, I'm in you haven't seen bridges in Mason County. I don't think this has Robert Travor, He's written some of the most beautiful stuff about fishing. Why are you looking at me like that? I'm okay, that's his pen name. What's his real damn name? Well, I'm somebody pull this up. People need to know about this.

I'm gonna answer Yanni's question about the epic for barber Manage. He was made by Hunter Spencer, who is a listener, a reader, a watcher of meat eater uh and he is awesome at what he does. Can I interrupt. Good job Hunter. His name was John D. Volker. His pen name was Robert Traver. Go on, I'm proud of the bartender for actually telling you what's what instead of just being like, oh, yeah, here's the bullet hole, getting y'all happy about it, waiting for that five dollar tip. That

would you wanna hear someone? One of Robert travers famous quotes about fishing, he says, I fished because I love to, because I love the environs where trout are found, which are invariably beautiful, and hate the environs where crowds of people are found, which are invariably ugly. That I got, yea, So tell you what you're telling him. I already told him. What's the scandal about the sign? Well, it's just the

way that Spencer told me. He's like, I found this guy and he's really good at at design and art, and his name is Hunter Spencer. And I just thought, I thought, really, his name's Hunter Spencer, right, I wouldn't buy that we should, yeah, we should pay him to do this art for my stuff. I was like, oh yeah, it turns out it turns out I was wrong. You did get ahold of guy? Well, like we did for a while. We we had we identified one of our internet trolls. We started to think it was the flip

flop pleasure because the internet troll would know things. I'm like, how do you know that? And then I was like, Seth knows that? And everything started tod started to add up for like everything that he would say. We'd be like, guess what we're announcing next week and he'd be like, it's up, you know, And I'm like a son of a bit, I'm like, who would possibly know this? Like Seth would know that because he was in the car one day when I was talking about it. He's got

a mustach him. Oh yeah, he did. He'd get real hot. Yeah, just get real hot when we bring it up, like the like the kind of hot that only made me more. Have you disproved it? Because we were able to disprove. Hunter Spencer is a real guy, big fan of Mediator. Shout out to him, wonderful job. Yeah, like, uh, Hunter Spencer, would you just hand the check to me and I'll get it to him. There's a chance that it's a long con and Spencer has created Instagram account and been

doing it for years. He probably bought some of Cow's paperwork. Here's a so much scarity. Not that's right. I wish I was that talented he does. He does an awesome job, and you're gonna be seeing more of his stealth on our website. So he's come up with some good ship Man and Barroom Banter is also powered by Element. Powered by Element, we have a new title sponsor series, I'm Drinking It Too. Yeah, just like just like on X is a title sponsor this year, Podcast Element is a

title sponsor. A barbroom Manter. They make it all possible, Steve, I know you like their stuff. Ben really likes their stuff. Maybe too much. Yeah, snort it right off the table. Keep keeps. You will hydrate. It's what I'm telling you, Ben, Ben, you're in the now that you're well hydrated. You're in the hot seat. Now give us walk us through the Brent but the Brent Bone Bearitax story. Now, that's what

you get from reading stuff and not here, not not knowing. Yeah, we've had a few guys on our team that have helped me work on this same longer help me work on this. And he was calling him Brett Bone for about six months, where I corrected it, but Bond, Brett Bond insane story this. Yeah, I'm not. I'm you know, I'm impressed with you have a computer in front of you there, Spencer. I don't want to go too far

behind the scenes. I don't, so I'm just gonna recall this from memory, so it may not sound quite as slick Spencer's stories. But do you want to borrow his computer? No? No, I think I can get it. You guys have all seen what we'll just call it's hard to describe, although we try to describe it in in the podcast. And then everybody's seen the picture. Everybody's seen the It's like the Kennedy assassination. Everybody knows they were when they saw the picture. I can tell you where I was. Matt

Cook sent to me and I said, bullshit. Yes, that's the best part about this that every I when I first saw it. Miles Nolte, I'm sure all you guys, all the guys on our crew saw this photo because I walked around showing it to people as I'm sure you invariably do to get their reaction. Most people's reaction when they see the photo it's not a breat Bond, It's of his father, Glen Bond his he was attacked

by a bear on not the Highway in Alaska. The bear ripped through with its jaws, and its claws ripped through the kind of took a chunk out of the center of his face. You know i'd put it, how would you put it? Yeah? I thought about it a great deal. Imagine that you're imagine that you're I don't see. I don't want to do this in any way that would to be disrespectful. It be like opening up a

person's face like a pair of butt cheeks. Yeah, I'll leave, thanks that you ain't coming on that stripped away, I mean stripped away. But it's not anything like that. Tomorrow I think about it. Yeah, sorry, let'st It's not too hard to describe. It's I mean, it's like basic anatomy. And I think there's been enough sort of like gore in media like done that's so that's similar. It's like someone's face has been taken off and it's sort of

like you can still tell that there's life. It's it's almost like a skull with still muscle attached to it, and there's eyeballs that you can tell have life in them. And there our teeth there that you can still tell our attached to jaws that work, but there is no skin, and it's like it's like a more of like a skull with flesh on it as opposed to like a human face with skin. Dab, please, I just I only want to take a dab because the opening up the

butt cheeks. One, dude, that's not right. It's not even I don't know where it came from. I was trying to support this is my next dab. Okay, it would be like if you took your skin a knife and made an opening cut up the center of someone's face. So you start below their chin and make your opening incision like you're gutting a deer up and then skin down each side a little ways. How's that big? Ways? Yeah?

Skin down a ways. I think if you combine Jannie's and yours and remove the butt cheeks, you got what it is. And I think that there's a couple of things. And I said no, I said, that's like, I don't know what that is, but that's that's like a fake thing. I think there's a few. You gotta kind of start with the emotionality of seeing the photos now, there's videos as well. Brett tells me there's a minute plus video that because this is where this all began, there's a

minute plus video of his dad talking. And if you've seen the photo, you've invariably seen the clip that Brett Sheridan his Instagram of his dad talking, shards of flesh hanging down over what would be his lips. Can you back up to what exactly the pre attack or are you gonna get there the people if you need to dress like where this because you said on the highway and I think that that might lead people. Yeah, yeah,

this it's so. I think he where this all starts is the imagery, because this is the thing that that brought me to this, that brought most people to this, It certainly brought me to it. It was a strategical mission. Yes, and we'll get there, and we've we've that's show. I want to show Steve how wrong he was. Show he's showing me how little it resembles anything to do with If your butt cheeks look like that, you've got a

bigger problem than listen to this podcast. I think it looks like if you when you like have a rifle and you shoulder shoot a deer and then you skin away the hide like what you have left there. It's just like that kind of carnage. Good. So the video that that Brett Bond, So we'll just start here Brett Bond. Earlier this year March mid March, Brett Bond shares a series of images and videos on his Instagram's at BBB Alaskin. You go there and look, and at this time guy's

got a couple hundred followers, eight nine followers. He shares this video and this photo, and there's another, there's there's a series of I believe seven images. One of the images is his dad sitting on a snow machine with this big eight ft grizzly bear laying in front of him. Kind of dead, real dead. The next that's the leading photo. But then you you scroll past that, you get to

see the photo of his dad without a face. Scroll even further you get to see his dad talking, speaking rather normally muffled because of the shards of flesh that are hanging down over what would be his lips, which are peeled away, the shards of flesh that are hanging from what would have been his nose which just peeled away. One of his eyes. I mean it's gone. His face just isn't attached to his skull anymore. A curtain. Yeah, it's just it looks it's it's the most surgical. It

almost looks surgical. As you said, you could take your skin and knife, slide down the middle and peeled that thing away. Has this like weird violence to it, but also it looks surgical. And this is important for later on because how he recovered is it's important that we know that this was not this bear didn't really harm any of the bones in his face and cartilage. It's just kind of skin and flesh peeled away. So now it looks like a horror movie where he's through the

shards of flesh and blood. You can see his teeth moving, you can almost see the bone above his teeth, his gums are kind of peeled away. And he's explaining that this bear came. He said, it came fast, came at me fast. There's other clips I've seen where he's he's explaining where the bear was. And so this is the first time officially anyone has ever seen this officially ever seen this shared by the person who actually is revealed by this dude's kid so this is earlier this year.

I got sent this to me. I'm sure everyone here did a hundred times. I fund the d M s M and I think it's important to note that it's the first emotion is bullshit, No way not true, because you know, I still haven't called my buddy Matt Coach to tell him that I'm you know, he because he was coming to me for like, could this be the expert insights, which I was like, yeah, said, that's what makes us think. So there's that there's so many elements to this, but it's one of the things that makes

it so amazing. So one of the other photos in in this seven photo run on Instagram is a photo taken in a place in was Cilic called diamond D Custom Leather, and it's the owner of Diamond D, Glenn and Brett and it is roughly I think, nine days after the attack. And if you look at it, okay, Glenn Bond, seventy seven year old father of Brett Bonn,

looks like he got attacked years ago. When you see the nine days after, his face looks like it's completely gone and there's no way that it could be reconstructed or that he could survive. Nine days later, he's looking pretty good. What nine days later he's shopping. He's shopping, He's going, he's visiting a leather store. He's going, that's where I wind up having a that that's where I and I didn't even know this, but that still is

puzzling to me. There's there's there is a cascade of puzzling events that you each time you're like, no way. And I've talked to and other people on our team. I have talked to Joe Fernado and say, I'm longer than the plastic surf. They had three surgeons. We've talked all three of them. Yep. We've talked to the rescue pilot who rescued him, and we'll get to that. We've talked to other hunting guides that were on the scene.

We talked to a retired sheriff from Wyoming who was on the scene when they arrived back at the lodge. We've talked to Brett Glenn, their mother, Lorraine. I mean, so we've covered anything that you think might not be true, because a lot of this will sound like it's not true. We've covered off on it, and there's and there's people involved that are credible, have no reason to lie, and

can confirm basically every insane detail of this. And we had to do it because yeah, you like quadrup Will checked it because you had to because every time you hear it, you know there's no way it's impossible. So anyway, that's what's that funny, Like a funny thing as a journalist too, be that someone tells you something and then you have to be you have to say, um, you know, with all due respect, I'm gonna call some people to make sure you're telling me the truth. It's awkward. Yeah,

well there's an elm. Are you gonna be like? Is there someone to can corroborate this? It's kindly, well, what are you saying? Well, that brings up an important element of this story, of the many things we got to go through to get through it. This. So the photos weren't taken this year, they weren't taken last year. They weren't taken a year before the photos were taken. In four years, he said on him for four years. Four years he sat on him, as he describes, and you'll

you'll learn even more about this. This is informed by another thing that happened to Bretton he sat him because they're a private family. They did not want any fame from this. And you guys will know we cover bar tax all the time. Bar tax are a chance to get seen, to tell your story. People want to know, especially something is insane as the photos and videos that Brett Bond had on his phone. So for four years,

these things were sequestered basically on his phone. He may have texted him to a few people, he may have shown them the few people, but to his admission, that's where they stayed. Unfortunately, at the Diamond Custom Leather, which was is let's say, four years before where they took

that photo. Nine days after the attack, Brett's mom, Lorraine Phillips, who's there with them at the shop, asks if Brett doesn't mind sending some of these images to some of the family members that are there for custom of the owner of Custom d Leather he makes he makes holsters. Yeah, he makes holsters, and and Brett was using we haven't even got here and we'll get it. He was using one of these holsters Brett was when he saved his dad,

Glenn's life from the bear. And so they're there and they text a couple of these images specifically the one that you'll see of them and custom in the leather shop, the three of them, and the photo that we were just describing of the non butt cheek fully removed face. So these two things essentially the leak out onto the internet because the fit the mother wants to to be kind and share some of these images with some of the folks that they're there in the shop that day,

particularly I think the owner's daughter. But this isn't I'm not it's not clear exactly what happened. We talked to the current um guy who runs that shop and he confirmed that this happened. The Raine Phillips confirmed that this happened. They share these images on a message board. We don't

know what message board. We don't know exactly what they shared the images at the time that they were taking so we're talking April believe it's like April when they were in the shop, So somewhere in this general timeframe they share these images out onto a message board. And you guys all know how message boards are, and you know how the internet is in the in and we won't go through all the details because we've also sussed

this out pretty far. In the four years following that message board share these images that Brett Bond shares himself for the first time four years later become an urban legend. They are trafficked on many websites. There's fake stories about them. They were assigned to a gentleman named Wes Perkins who was attacked in very much the same wise Glenn Bond. I believe in two thousand eleven, so West Perkins. Somehow we were never able to like nail down the exact

moment when someone said, Hey, that's West Perkins. The Bond family believes they know who it was and and they're suing that person. But this is what kind of gets to the point where Brett Bond wants to share these images now, because four years later, this thing has been called a hoax, It's been assigned to another man, it's been spread around the internet for clickbait, it's been it's been mistreated in this way because the real story isn't out there. Can I I want to make sure I'm

getting this all. You're gonna have to do this a lot of thing and then anyone else who might just I just want to double check out a couple of things. The timeline, the mauling happens. He takes pictures the day of the malling. Nine days later, he takes pictures at the Double D Diamond Dad. Right away the Diamond D people like, hey, can we see those pictures? He shares the pictures. Then the pictures spread out over the course of years years, years and is but is the kid

that took the pictures? Is he aware? So he's aware that the photos he took her being he's aware, miss construed and agitated, but he knows that this is going on, extremely aware of it, agitated by its not a surprise. Now they're not like, oh, we didn't know I got you. So he's like, what the hell, that's that's my dad to this guy, this fellow West, that the did he somehow take ownership and make some sort of monetary gain

off these pictures? So how's he getting sued? They this is something that we've not nailed down, so I don't want to bring an It's kind of people to get sued. And then it turns out there's no standing. West isn't getting Steed sue the reporter that the Bond family believes fabricated the West Perkins story connected to the imagery is getting that's possibly getting sused. I mean they believe he fabricated the story and then sold it to other outlets

to make money. That's what they believe. So he are using using the West Perkins story in the Bond images profited, which I mean, you know West Perkins. If you we won't go through West Perkin's entire story, but if you think, if you read his story, it is eerily similar to that of Glenn Bond. But if this dude, not to get too off track here, but if this dude, if this journalist, he was using pictures to which he didn't

have permission. And I won't mention all the websites, some of them you will know they're in our industry, and we've talked to people at these websites journal journalistically. They sold these things as click bait, right West Perkins man with no face, West Perkins Man with no face all the way up to and I will mention this guy's name, Tom Mirandy. You guys know Tom Mirandy I ended myself to one time. We are two months into this investigation

and it was a legitimate investigation. And shout out to Joe and Sam for for helping with this. Tom Miranda post this is after. This is months after Brett Bond has posted these images on his Instagram. Tom Miranda post images on his Instagram and says, check out West Perkins. This is this is a month ago, check out West Perkins. No. I used to buy Tom Miranda's d not DVDs, VHS tapes. One of the kids I had like water trapping with Tom mirandas so Tom rand is the best. Just imagine

for me like that. It just highlights the fact that the Internet, you just put this stuff in the blender that is the Internet, and it shoots out weird things at weird times. And so we ended up just saying hey, just bye bye the bye. Tom. No, you're using someone else's images. You're attributing to them too, something that's not true for to get some traffic on your Instagram. And what to think about that? He said, Well, I got

it from this story from the America Shooting Journal. It was passed on to me from an outfitter in Africa. So well, that American. It's like okay, that American, yes, and that American Shooting Journal article. If you google today, I think Brett Bond bear attack it, it might come up. It comes up in the first page, and so are we gonna get to hear the actual barytax? Okay, that's where people can plain. And when we did a podcast about this that it took too long to get to

the very tach story. But there's so much I don't care. So here we go. So now we're at the point where we have the first element of this, where there is a conspiracy. There is this internet urban legend around these images. All this stuff has happened. Brett Glenn, their their mother slash wife, Lorraine. They know about this. It's agitating to them. So this, among other things, leads to Brett sharing these images. And when he shares the images,

does he share them as setting the record straight man? No, he shares them as I want to highlight bear safety. Because he's trained, he's he's taking he's trained, he's taking very constructive n he takes a very constructive and healthful tone, saying like, hey, you're in bear country. Check this out. He doesn't, I mean, I don't. I don't want to give a spoiler aler but the dudes were hunting grizzlies. Yeah, you're you're inviting a certain proximity, which that's a whole

another thing. There are there, there are some that you run into some oxym ronic stuff here, but this, there's this is so detailed and so deep that there's almost no way you're not gonna run into some stuff that just doesn't do this story. Um, you know, I stole this from someone down the road, but this is one of those stories that makes its own gravy. Yeah, it's uh,

it's full of gravy. So if you want to, if we want to just go back to the actual attack and we'll go through this briefly, because it's got a lot of stuff that it's it's lingering, it's lingering. You want to know what actually happened. So guy has no face and he uh, we know the his his his face ripped off. We also know that nine days later he's doing okay generally okay, walking around talking to people, taking photos. So now those are the kind of facts

the structure of what we know. Well, um, if you want to get to know bretton Glenn Bond. Glenn Bond is a retired teacher. They're both natives of the Solo, Alaska. Brett Brett Bond is a thirty three year old hunting guy he's been a hunting guide basically his whole life. You go to his Instagram, you look around. This dude is an Alaskans. Alaskan like he's hunting, fishing. That's what he does. He guides all year round. He guides bears, cariboo, whatever,

everything you know that to be available in Alaska. This guy's done it. Pretty hardcore outdoorsman. His dad is a similarly hardcore outdoorsman, but he was a retired teacher and also a hunting guide in his free time. These guys have had scrapes with bears over the years. His his dad was charged by a bear with a client one time. There's this whole story that you can read about or listen to in our podcast. So these guys know their

way around this country. They're not rookies. There's no way to think that they want to know exactly what they have to do. In fact, Glenn Bond has killed a charging grizzly before, so he knows he knows what to do. So these guys, they've been hunting together since Brett was seven, he's now thirty three. His dad's seventy seven, and they decided that they want to go on a bear hunt. It's in April. I think I want to say April,

yet it's and it's in early April. Bears are just coming out of their dens, are still in their dens. They're gonna take a snow machine up the DENIALI Highway into the mountains. It's not on an actual highway from a lodge twenty five miles they went on snow machine. So I'll just trying to speed this up because it take awhile a snow machine they're gonna they drive. He describes in detail that morning. He said it was it was a beautiful morning. It was just starting to get warm,

so the snow was starting to melt. So they didn't want to get too far away because they didn't want to get into a situation on two snow machines where they couldn't turn back if the snow was to melt too much. And so Brett and Glenn come upon what they think is a den hole in the side of a hill. This this hill is pretty has a pretty steep slope going down to where they have parked their

snow machines. And they see brett SE's tracks going in and then possibly tracks going around the backside of this den, this hole in the side of the mountain. So they have this conversation, what are we gonna do? They're looking for a bear. They're pretty sure there might be one in there. Brett decides he's gonna go back and check for the check for these tracks, exiting tracks to see. He goes up this hill, up this slope around the den.

He's checking for tracks. He hears screaming. His father is, as he's described it to me, behind him, maybe a hundred yards maybe less, down a slope. Glenn Bond is sitting on a snow machine like facing the den. Basically, this bear comes essentially charging out of the den. Brett remembers hearing Glenn saying he's coming out. He's coming out, He's coming out, And before he can turn, he sees

just a flash of fur. This eight foot grizzly comes out of the den and and basically as Brett describes it, takes his father like a rag doll and just throws him down there. But his dad's lining up. Try to get a crack, so his dad, so his dad has had this happened before. He's got a rifle in his hand. He gets a crack at it, as the bears running,

he pulls his rifle up and again he's done this before. Blouch, blouch. Well, it turns out the bear had just dipped down into a little depression in the space between Glenn and the den, and he shoots over the back of this spear and he's got you know, seconds, and it's on him and they're they're rolling down the hill together. And so Brett turns around and sees this happening. And the reports from

the folks that investigated the scene state fit. While they fish the investigating scene, his footprints look like an Olympic track athlete, like he doesn't, you know, as he would have describe, he doesn't really remember what exactly he did. He pulls his three fifty seven pistol from his diamond de holster. Three seven. I think it's three fifty seven. I don't want to get it. I might be wrong about that. He pulls his pistol. This is where this

is pretty. This is where the internet trolls. Yeah, they're gonna say no, They're like, oh, three seven, I'm sorry, Brett. Meg means you don't have to shoot twice or you know, I'm sorry if it was if it wasn't a three seven. I'll go, I'll I'll amend this if I need to, we can look it up. But pulls his pistol and just sprints towards it, towards his dad, his dad. At this point, the bears on top of his father. All that Brett can see is the bear and his dad

and blood. Then this is there's melee. They're screaming. As you would try to imagine what might be happening here. He runs to his dad, pulls up his pistol I think or three h something, and he dumps a couple of rounds into the vitals of the bear, and at this point the bear kind of stumbles off. His dad stands up. He shoots it in the chest. It comes

down a little bit. Then at some point in all of this, shoots it between the eyes as it's coming at him, and he describes He's like I knew, I just knew I had to keep between my dad and the bear. And at some point I knew if I didn't, if this shot didn't go exactly where it needed to, I was dead. My dad was dead. And this is all I mean, this is, you know, imagine this happens in the span of thirty seconds, who knows there's no way to tie him it out, so that all of

this happens. And if you you know, if you think about like it's it's here's a guy that's trained in survival. He's he's trained in back country medicine. He's a guy he kind of understands this. So I think some of this for him, if I was just judging his action, some of him is just what he would do for anyone. But there's an element of he gets this done. As he describes it. He describes in a pretty calm way, like hey man, I ran down the hill and boom,

boom boom. This bear is dead. So bears dead. He describes thinking he's gonna seeing his dad in a pool of blood, thinking he's gonna arrive to his father being dead, or the last moments of his father's life, you know, one or the other. Not thinking that. So he gets over there and he says that his dad is while his face is torn apart, he's got some injuries in his wrist. His dad is complaining about his wrist injury,

not really understanding. I don't think what's going on with the face, and Brett tries to do a bunch of things. He checks his father for bleeding. He determines that there's no arterial bleeding. He's not gonna bleed out in any way. That the main he did your damages to the face. So he takes off his handkerchief, tries to tie it around his dad's face as you might try to repair the damage. His dad immediately begins to choke on his own flesh, and so at this moment, at this point,

his dad is talking fairly coherently. Doesn't seem like other than him complaining about his wrists, seems like he can he can have a conversation with his son. The physical act of talking, though, looks like it would be really hard.

And there's a whole bunch of other as we get down the road in the stories, a whole bunch of other things that happened that you just you don't think with an injury like that that he would be able to pull off being that cogent or at the physical act of moving your mouth up and down, when your tongue up and down and making the words come out, not just the mental state, but like actually being able to the physical words physical part. So you know, fast

forward to how this video gets made. Glenn Bond never loses control once I think he realizes he's not gonna die. Brett realizes he's not going to die. In the moment, Glenn Bond is the toughest person I've ever heard of. He never loses control. He's extructing his son what to do. He instructs his son to take this video so his moms so they can in case he dies or something,

that his mom will know what happened. And so there's somewhere out there's a minute long video of a man with no face just explaining these things, explaining what happened essentially, and so a bunch of things happen takes him about an hour, I believe, if I'm recollecting that right, about an hour to get on the snow machine and head back to the lodge where they were staying. It's about twenty four a little bit over a twenty four mile ride on a snow machine. So so Brett loads his

dad up behind him and they ride. I think it takes another hour to get back to the lodge. All the while his dad is his back there with he can't cover his face up. There's there's not a whole lot you can do other than just ride the snow machine. And to this point again in he reiterated, this guy is with it. He is telling his son what to do. He's telling his son to like, we gotta calm down, we gotta stay calm, we gotta this is what we gotta do. They were they able to radio for help

ahead of time? Yes, I believe that they did, because well, they radio for help. But they're staying at a lodge that's pretty far out there. In the story that we're working on. We continue to work and we talk about exactly how far the lodge is from the nearest town, and then the town from the nearest hospital. This all comes into play when they finally get back to the lodge. They meet a guy there named Dan, asked us, who's a sheriff in Wyoming, and he I believe his Bret's godfather.

He's got a relationship to the family. He's there, he knows them. He's the first person who sees them come back. He this is a guy who's been a sheriff. He's retired. He's been a shaff for forty years. He's seen some ship he's seen some people shot He's seen some awful things. He says, the worst thing he's ever seen his life. By the time they do a twenty a mile ride back to this lodge, the skin, the flesh that was you can see in the video, is now sluffed off

of his face. As they described it to me, the chin is exposed. Like a chin you imagine you're the bones underneath your chin is now exposed. So they now have to go to They go to the owners of lodge. They start calling for metaback helicopters to come take him hospital. They so they do all of this while this is happening.

They can't get anybody to commit to come. I think they the owners the lodge that they went through two or three phone calls before they could get somebody to commit via weather timing location that they were safe to come and pick them up and ferry them to the hospital. While this is happening, Danes is out there trying to keep everybody calm. He tries to give He describes this moment where he's trying to give He's asking Glen Bond, Hey, what can I do for him? Glen Bond says, I'd

like to get a sip of water. He puts to get some water, puts a straw in it, tries to give it to Glenn end can't get the straw in his mouth, can't get the straw through the shards of flesh, through the gore and into his mouth, and it can't drink. So that's just a moment that I'll from that, from hearing that conversation as the moment I remember, because it's just like it notes how ridiculous all of this really is. So at this point, they finally get ahold of a

guy named Brett Westcott who's a Medlife Alaska pilot. He's on a U. S. Army pilot in Iraq in a bunch of places. Great dude, badass dude. He agrees that it's safe that they can fly. They're gonna go pick him up at the lodge and ferry him to Providence Hospital, the best hospital in Alaska, most of They're gonna go there, pick him up, take him there. He lands. He describes he's got to flight medics on hand. They land there. He describes similar. This guy's seeing some ship as well.

He's been through war, he's fairy special operators into missions. He's seen some stuff. Same thing says, I've never seen anything like this in my life. I thought, this person is gonna die. There's no way. At this point, you're really like the pictures are true. Yeah, And this is where that's where it's important too, because I'm we are continuing to say like there's no way, and we're not even to the most amazing point. I don't think, but

there's no way. And then you get these people that have no reason to lie, that have no reason because we I won't I won't mention the names of the people. Along the investigation, we ran into people that said this is bullshit. People in high ranking spots in Alaska fish and game other places. They won't say this on the record. We've had I had biologists. They're saying the photos bullshit. Yep. I just thought another thing. It looks like never mind,

he had your chance. Anyway. So this Brett West got another really good interview. He really talks about what happens when they come to pick him up and you show him the picture and he says, yep, oh yeah, yep, it's worse. He picture doesn't do it justice. That's what he says. He says. By the time again, by the time, oh This is hours later when he arrives all this skin that was kind of newly ripped open, ripped off

of the skull of Glenn. Bond has kind of through a snowmobile ride through time, laying around trying to drink water, all these things has kind of like peeled itself away, fallen away. The weight of the flesh has pulled it away from the face, and so he he describes this as they're getting I don't I'm sure how to turn this over. But as they're getting Glenn onto the helicopter, Brett Bond, who has has been a hero to this point,

is taking photos as a cell phone. Now he's taking photos of the badges of the flight medics and the pilot. There's a quick verse I have to do a quick version of a story that would take a whole another podcast to tell at this point. So when Brett is taking photos of these people's name tags, the plan is to take Glenn to Providence Hospital, which again it says, the top hospital in Alaska. If your face is messed up, you're gonna want to go there. Probably Glenn and Brett

both refuse to go there. They want to go somewhere else. They will not go to Providence, and I'm gonna I have to go through this quickly. Apologies to anyone that was involved in this that really wants to the true story out there. We'll get it out, promise. The what happened years before. Brett Bond is on a bear hunt years before five six years before this attack. He's on a bear hunt. He has incredible insomnia, doesn't sleep for ten fourteen, doesn't sleep for over ten days. Comes back

to to Wasilla, goes to the hospital. They give him some some steroids in predator. They think he just has a who knows what. They think he has just terrible insomnia. This keeps getting worse. His parents bring him back to Providence Medical. Bringing back to the doctor eventually makes it the Province Medical. He goes through a psychotic break, psychotic episode that lasts months where I read a five hunder page legal document of discovery from all of the all

the doctors and nurses that treated Brett Bond. He goes through insane ordeal over six or so months, where he is he doesn't know where he is. He thinks all the doctors are FBI agents. There's there's reports in these medical documents I read where he's in a shower with his clothes on, defecating in his own pants. He has a prolonged psychological battle where they are giving him heavy doses of steroids and other drugs. His parent that his

his mom, Lraine Phillips, his dad. They're Jehovah's witnesses and so they don't believe in medicine. They believe the medicine is the problem. So they have a battle with the Providence Medical team over this. Eventually, the Providence Medical team bands the parents from the visiting their son. They only give him like a couple hours a week to medical custody.

So eventually this goes into the courts. They take metal I am skipping over so much, but they there's some serious foundation laid for them to not want to deal with Providence medicals. What do you see Their yell review that it's not it's not great. So they so I'll just say. Eventually, Lorraine Phillips, Bret's mother, they go to a different hospital. The rain is uh. A nurse is after I can't this is just gonna be bad. After

there's a legal battle the state of Alaska. It's medical custody of Brett bon because they feel like his family is threatening to allow him to die rather than have him take medicine. This is a whole another thing. Eventually, this battle gets so intense a nurse is wheeling Brett Bond into an l of Later in the hospital, according to court documents, Lorraine Phillips comes in, pushes, pushes, the nurse takes Brandon Brett in the wheelchair, pushes him away,

takes him to a rehab clinic. Uh kidnaps the kid, kidnaps her own kid. If there is such a thing as getting this is This was in the National Spotlight, International Spotlight. If you google free Brett Bond. This is pre bit, This is alway pre bar attack. This is it. It makes its own gravy. It's a civil liberties case, had been making its own grades. It's the gravies. It's three three layers already think so and I apologized Brett, Glenn, Lorraine, I just butchered that. But you guys get the idea

that there was a national story. They're still telling the abbreviated version under d arrest, under durest. So I'm asking for the brief because there's no whether this would be just hours and hours um and then folks that they're gonna be able to explore this whole thing. Yeah, yeah, we're gonna we have I have a podcast where I talked to Glenn and we went through this. But we're gonna do more because I think this this needs these more.

I've talked to Brett's lawyer, um Mario Bird up there, and he just he laid it only pretty heavy that this is a civil liberties case. There's a term called psychological rights that's now involved. There's all these other things that we could get into it another time. Anyhow, this is why Brett and Glenn do not want to go the Providence. Brett told me he's like the reason why I didn't want to go because I spent seven the way he puts it, I spent seven months behind the

walls at Providence. He describes like a prison basically in the quote that he gave me. So anyway, they get in, they get in the helicopter, they decide they're gonna go to Matt su General, which is a hospital um closer, you know, probably less suited to take on this gets his name from the Matt Nowskins who's sitting the rivers. That's why it's good to be on here. Um, here's

another point. There in the helicopter, they're flying down some random valley on the way to Matts New General Glenn Bond starts directing the pilots on which is the quickert? How what the quickest way is to get to hospital? Here's the mayo of no face. It's hours now since he was brutally attacked by a grizzly bear, and he is coaching enough, can't drink water, but still coaching enough to be like, take a left here, head over this way.

So um, there's another point now you gotta get to In the urban legend, during those four years where no one knew about this, there was a point in a messageboard post that I read where someone said I heard Glenn Bond never took any painkillers or narcotics and he medicined during this ordeal. It's true. So I talked to Dr Susan Dean, the surgeon who put his face back together. Now this is the gravy. Is you're aware of the gravy at this point, this is even more it's bubbling. Yeah,

this is even more gravy for you. This is a big pot. Dr Susan Dean is awesome. People that work for her. I talked to people in her office. They she's like a god to them. They love her. She's a bubbly, effervescent person. When we first talked to her, she said, I love the gore of plastic surgery, and I love bears. In her office hangs a sign on the front door that says bear feet Welcome. Be a r feet welcome. It's got bear signs. The floor mats have grizzly bears on him. Her business card has a

grizzly bear on it. The logo of her practice is a grizzly bear. There's grizzly bear pictures, there's cartoon grizzly bears everywhere in her office. And she describes herself as loving the gore of plastic surgery. So she happens to be at the hospital that day when when Glenn lands and needs some help. So she is she's called upon to go take a look at this guy. She goes in there, she's talking to him. He is. He basically says, just do it here, referencing the surgery. Just do it here.

They're in like an e er area. This is, as you imagine a pretty pretty complicated surgery. He's like, just do some do some local anesthetics and do it here. She has to explain to him, Hey, we kind of we have to clean this up. She makes a joke that the bear probably didn't brush his teeth before he

ripped her face off. Um. They have this conversation where she's trying to convince him to take some sort of narcotics, some sort of pain killer, something to help all the pain of what it's going to be in an incredibly invasive surgery because they must clean his face out. Been through this such a long long time, just trying to heal the pain and take a break regular this one man. Yeah, so they have this. They developed this rapport which remains today years later. He's a hard man. She is. She

sings and roses. I wasn't comment, and I was coming on healing the pain. Oh yeah, not coming on the length of the guns and roses meat. I was singing that song I've never seen before. Is that on sale? I believe it is soon dot com dot com? No, yeah, I was making the pain pain management reference. Good, have they sent me the so he does indeed refuse, He refuses.

They sent me even the local anesthetic. There's some local anesthetic involved, because I think it's impossible, it would be impossible to do with that, because it's against his religious convictions to take medicaid, to take like heavy medication. I'm hesitant to say that, but that would be the assumption. Hesitant to say because I've never talked to him, He's never spoken publicly on this. His wife, his kid, his kid, his wife, you know, talked about him a lot. So

I'm hesitant to say that's what it is. But all intensive purposes, that's likely what led him to refuse those that treatment. And they sent me the medical board in his hospital room that says, you know, no local, no narcotics, no nothing, no blood transfusions, no, nothing like that. And so he goes through I can't remember like one surgery

that lasted three or four hour hours. And if you go back to the time when you first saw that photo, if I told you that the dude's face was put back together in a couple of hours by one surgery. He had two other surgeries months later to to fix his ear. And I believe his I or knows, but these are months later. So this is one surgery with no painkillers. He gets another piece of gravy. They had.

Most of the rooms in the hospital were full the children, so they had to bring him to the children's section of the hospital. Lucky kid to recover. He goes into his recovery room. It's a children's room. It's full of cartoon bears, the wallpapers cartoon bears, and so he recovers. The bears already come on people with the bears. So

he recovers. And again, if you get into the relationship that Lorraine Phillips, his wife, had with the doctors of Providence during the Free Brett Bond incident, this is a very com bad relationship. It's ridiculously combat it and he gets it's it's mixed up in religious ideologies and all kinds of things, you know, civil liberties. But then you have the relationship between Glenn Bond and this doctor Susan Dean, which is all about respect, all about talking to each other,

listening to each other, and they get through this. It's clean as humanly possible. Nine days he's walking around, didn't take a didn't visit, visiting the holster shop, and so she listens to him and all that. So anyway, that's that's really not really not the end of the story even then. But let's say it's a lot. Let's say

it's a lie. What would be the motivation? Like, I don't get like what, Like I looked at it him like that's not truth, a lie, but like like if you think about it, like people that still would want to say, like, oh, it's not he didn't that didn't happen. It's fake. Yeah, what what's to gain? I thought about this a lot because I thought about my own livityes like bullshit when I first saw it. Now you'll remember, Spencer,

there was a very fake situation. It was only maybe six or eight months before we learned about this Mommy the mummy guy who was buried alive, the Russian guy who was buried alive by a bear and then discovered cashed, cashed by a bear. And there's this video online video of a guy that looks, I mean, it looks so real like a mummy, like a mummy. And so that's what immediately came to my mid and that that generated a lot of clicks I see, So you start to

think of what is going on here. Some people are just pranksters. Some people want to get clicks, some people like the macabre. Who knows. There's no way to really know, but that that came into my mind is like this that story because it was completely debunked, but it looked very real. It was very compelling. We all remember when it happened. When we were actually in the office, We're all walking around going, WHOA, see this, see this, see this, and the the origin of that to you, it was

like a motive you wouldn't even think of. It was for like the set of some low budget film that they were just like messing around and trying to figure out to make up and then this just got out on the internet. So like when you ask about a motive, right like, there's motives you can't even comprehend. That doesn't that doesn't even necessarily there's like a motive, but it's like just the way people want to put things out

into the world. And so you know, maybe this is a real photo and it got distorted, which was the actual truth? Maybe this is I had people read articles of full articles of people debunking this as Hollywood special effects, as people saying it was completely fake, obviously fake, you know, obviously a hoax. I got another question for you, who was the guy that the photo was ascribed to, West Perkins. What's the west EPs say about this? I have I'm kind of close to getting hold of West, but but

he's not active about being like, that's not me. I'm not I'm not positive if he even knows that's what's really going on. So he might not give a whole big he might not give a big ship about all this. And here's another thing this when when this happened, most bear attacks like this, especially like this one, are reported on somewhere in detail. You know, they're not all national news.

They're not. I mean, it's we kind of you. You've within twenty four hours, you usually, and so if you hang out with the right sorts of folks, you're like, oh, someone got scratched. You know, someone got scratched yesterday in Wyalming or whatever. And so that's what you know. All this stuff has kind of come back to me where a guy got attacked by a guy was riding his bike up a big guy and got ran into a

grizzly bear. Turns out this is earlier this year. Wasn't a woman point it was a guy I heard just around town. About thirteen different versions of that story before I actually read a version that he told gets out, and so that's what happened here. The West Perkins story very like I said, very similar to Bret and Glenn Bond. It was covered, it was written about, it was covered in multiple multiple real actual news sources covered that story.

This one didn't get picked up. They made sure it didn't. When Brett Bond called it in, he he didn't even name himself, he said a hunting partner. So if you go back and look, you'll see reports. This report got buried underneath another attack. I believe the teacher was attacked in the same area within a couple of days of Glen's attack, So it gets buried in some of the more national stories. I hit you with a quick bar

check yeah coverage story. My brother is going up a river in Alaska, my hunting moose, and they stop and talk to your dude for a while, and they're dragging their canoes up a river and they bullshit with the guy for a while. They go about their business. They go out on the river and hunt moose. They get home and everybody saw about a guy that got mauled

on the river. They're hunting you. It's interesting, And when they finally see the picture, it's the guy that they just talked to you who got mauled the day they talked to him. After obviously they shot the ship with him go up the river, he gets mauled, and then like ten days later they come home and hear about a guy who got mauled. Look, it was like the dude they had been rapping with. I hope you I was hoping you were gonna say he got mall and forgot to mention it before it was after it like

butterfly effect. Though at it's like, had we not taking up so much of his time? This dude stumbled on a gut pile of another moose hunter that had been claimed by a bear, and to bear scratched him up. Maybe I can't remember the dude lived or died, but he got scratched up pretty good. Anyhow, word gets out. That's I mean, there's so much that goes into this, and like if you try to really draw some conclusions from it, there's so many of them, but one of

them is give me one. Well, one of them is the way that we treat this, the way that we talk about bear attacks, the way that we want to cover them. Why are we so drawn to Barras These are sensational, These are life and death sensational stories that we're drawn to. And that and because we're drawn to him in the way that we are, we tend to embellish them, or we tend to a guy told me. And so that's one element of this I think. Also

I hit you with the one. I think that there's something to be said for knowing that there is still like real danger from wild animals out there, and that we harbor a little bit of nostalgia for that ship. Absolutely, there's that quote about you know, fighting against the wilderness until we could become civilized, and then once you're civilized, fight against civilization. Yeah, and you can hearn for the wilderness.

I talked to a neuroscientist on my show recently. God works the Mount Sinai, and he did some studies on the predator's brain. They studied mice and they there's a in the central migdala there's like a pocket of neurons

that they can they can mess with. Don't ask me to really get technical, and they can mess with turn it up or turn it down and see what happens to mice and their predatory instincts, and he was telling me, he's like, based on psychology and based on our brain works, we have this there's a duality of respect we have for predators, and you can see this in our own culture where we we both want to be them and their efficiency for killing because that's part of what how

we got to be where we are, and we also respect their beauty and their place in the ecosystem. So we have this like dual respect for them that kind of leads to maybe at some level what we see in our culture where protectionism and the hate and the vitification of predators that's happened through the decades past turn of the century and even before that. And so that's something that after this whole Brett Bond thing that I've

been looking at hard. We've talked to hilarious guyst We talked to this guy ivand Rajo, who's a who's that neuroscientist and just trying to figure out what is this thing and why do we have these opinions about predators and somewhere deep down and there's why we're so drawn to this stuff and why we turn it around and make it something it's not remind uh tell folks who of the people you just talked to you that they can go and hear the story straight from the old Uh,

straight from the I don't want to say horses mouth, straight from the mouth. Straight from the mouth, well, I mean from your from from from hunting collect from the hunt collective, right, so I can pull it up and give you numbers, but you can hear Brett Bond tell his story. I think it's one six episode. We then talked to that neuroscientists and episode eight just talked to Dr Geist last week and actually had asked they asked the eagle debut THHC. We brought it kind of resuscitated

a little bit for Yannie. What you ask him? What did you asked him? Does he think the picture is true? Yeah? We should. Yeah, I like it, but yeah, I mean there's a lot of stuff in there. We also went to um also went to Yellowstone to bring it all back. Spencer and and went out with the predator biologist Dr

Dan Steyler and tracked a mountain lion. Talked to him about his you know, he spends his entire life studying these predators, wolves, grizzlies, talk to him about that, talk to him about what he thinks they're placing the landscape. Are why we believe, why we kind of ascribe these you know, personalities to them, why we have this immense respect for them on one side and then this immense hatred on the other. So all that is kind of wrapped up in or was inspired in some way by

this Brett Bond story. We were picking huckleberries on Saturday, took our kids up with huckleberry We were we weren't going to the zone of death. Okay, did you go to my spot? But my goodness, did we get a lot of them. I heard a good year for him in saying, man, we got we picked twin berries, we picked thimbleberries, we picked huckleberries, we picked um dwarf whortleberry, we picked we'll missing gooseberry and in current which are

hard to tell part anyhow, shipload of huckleberries. But I, um, I couldn't not mention the bear situation to my kids, so I said, but I wanted to spin it right, So I said, if you're lucky enough to encounter a bear. That's how I opened it up, like, well, what if it? And then I was like we'll cross that bridge when it when we get to it, and just no one that I now mentioned it. At least let's go pick if negligent not to at least bring up the fact

that you might be lucky enough to encounter one. I probably won't happen, but you could get so engrossed in staring at a little tiny berries rustling through the brush on your own, making little squeals of joy. Yeah, my son was that the orange bear spray canister. It's like it's a thing that I'm not happy that he's so curious about. But Yeah, that's the funny thing about kids embarrass spray is like I'm like, there's the like sort of remote chance of needing to spray a bear with

this bear spray. There's the very real chance of my kids spraying each other with this. Yeah, because it's this orange cand that kid is begging to be shot at your your sibling. It looks like that string stuff that that they screw it out, what it looks like. They're like, dude, if I could only squirt that at my sister. Yeah, I put him in that little pack and we pack around and track charuk hands or whatever, and it's I

got the bear spray on my hip. He's always like I feel like I feel that little hand going down ald that thing. All right, man, good stuff? Yeah, yeah, what's going on onst You know the feeling you described, like why we're interested in bear a tax and like how it's just like the amount of danger is exciting right when I was talking, when I was talking to Brian called the person who found this legal loophole in

his oone of death. I was trying to verbalize that to him, and I was telling him, you know, from where we're sitting were five miles from that zone of death. I was telling it's like kind of liberating knowing that exists. It's like strangely exciting knowing that's just like I don't know mountain away, right, you just lure someone over there? Yeah, And I was telling I was telling him that, and he did not feel the same way. His last words to me is that he said, I just stay the

hell away. M hm m hm, stay the hell away, not us, Like he feels like maybe there's somebody lurking out there wanting to dry. He respects the zone of death so much that he would discourage anybody from going there. There's just some people out there who hate a legal loophole, and I would count him among that class. And that's the feeling that you're describing with hunting among grizzly bears. Yeah, I don't don't. I don't feel nervous. I mean I've

heard I've had other You've had other bartech victims. As I buy on my show, I feel more alert. I feel like there's a more visceral knowledge of what might happen if I get jumped but still out there. As my brother said, man, when the time comes and he's coming at you, you get him one hand on the bottom jaw, one hand on the top jaw. Oh, he just said that old, that old Latvian story about load the jaws apart until you tire them out, and then you three stoogeum right in the eyes. It's two fingers.

Do you make the three stooges noise? Yeah, he's like he lives in no fear, knowing that he's got that trick up his sleeve. Which which hand do you do the poking with? No, you wait till he's sufficiently tired. Then you pull your hand away from the lower jaw, zap him in the eyes and then back down to the bottom jaw to continue the jaws. Bread Bear safety perfect