15: How To Use Storytelling To Grow Your Business

People don't buy what you do. They buy who you are. We like to do business with people that we know, like, and trust. And the way for people to know, like, and trust you is for them to know who you are, what you stand for, like what you stand for, and trust that you can provide a solution to their needs. How does video storytelling allow you to do that?
Again, it just invites them into your world. It invites them into getting to know you, and that becomes your differentiator. Instagram is flooded with interior designers who just show the finished product. So if you're competing thinking that you have the best picture, you have lost that immediately. 
Hey y'all it's time for the designer within podcast episode number 15. 
 
Hello, everybody. Welcome to episode 15. So happy to have you here. I'm recording this late September and. Fall is slowly creeping in and I am excited about it. I don't know about you, but I love the fall weather and I hope that you're as excited about it as I am. I'm also excited about this episode today. Today I have Jude Charles on and Jude is. Storytellers extraordinaire. This man. We'll help you to tell stories that you didn't even know were inside of you. I love this interview so much, and if you've ever wondered to yourself, do I even have a story? How do I even tell that story? Jude's ability to. Help extract that story from you and then a place that story on the format of a beautiful video is amazing. I first heard of Jude when he recorded a beautiful docu series for my friend, Luann Nigara. And if you haven't seen that yet, you can go to Louann's YouTube and still watch it. And I believe Jude also has it on his website, but it was just so well done. And I thought, wow, this guy really knows his stuff. I learned things about LuAnn that I had never known before. And then at Las Vegas market, I was chatting with Luanne and there was Jude and we got a chance to meet each other. 
So it turned out that he could be on the podcast today. But the story that he has is so strong about how he started out and. And I love how he sprinkles his stories. Throughout the interview in a way that not only lets us know more about him as a person, but also him as a business. And I think that is the key to true storytelling is when we, as business owners can weave our personal stories into our business lives. Right. So we'll gonna talk about a lot of stuff today. 
We're going to talk about what a story hook is. If you don't know what that is, how one aha moment that Jude has a really, really aha moment of desperation. And that he had pulled him out and realized that he needs to value his work more, something that I preach all the time as well. We're going to talk about after market marketing and how you should continue to market yourself, which is a great format for videos. And also how to overcome the fear of being on camera and sharing your story. Even if you have never considered a professionally recorded video, you should still listen to this episode because there are so many great nuggets to extract for you, just to record yourself on your Instagram stories or any other format of video that you would want to show to potential clients. 
For over 17 years, Jude Charles has been producing documentaries for entrepreneurs. He has produced stories for Google's Steve Harvey and dozens of visionary CEOs. Jude is also the author of dramatic demonstration. This book is a roadmap that teaches you how to dig deep and find compelling stories that no one else knows. 
And then leverage those stories to grow your business. Jude's mission is to lead and empower entrepreneurs to have relentless. Lists unwavering courage. And I think you will hear that today. And now I'm happy to introduce you to Jude Charles. 
Hi Jude. I
wanna welcome you to the designer within podcast. I'm so happy to have you here.
John, I'm happy to, to be here with you as well. I was glad to meet you in person in Vegas, Las Vegas market, and now we're getting an opportunity to sit down and, and talk and geek out about storytelling. So definitely looking forward to it. 
I
can geek out about a lot of things and I will tell you storytelling is definitely one of them.
I.
was just mentioning to you that I always, I. Emphasize storytelling with my students and my program and myself and, and you were right. We met through our, our friend Luann Nigara, and you produced a, just a beautiful, I guess the best title will be docuseries for her, which, which I watched live, by the way, on the viewing party, and was so impressed.
It was, it was beautifully done, it was insightful and
funny and.
raw. And honestly, I learned a lot about. Lou that I didn't even know before, which kudos to you on doing your job for that. but also what I loved was that it, that was my introduction again, and it, and it was, it, it felt very on brand for her.
It I didn't know these things about her. But it felt very much like something that would come out of her mouth just in a very A very natural way, so, so I wanted to tell you, first of all, just great job on that, on that docuseries for Luann.
It was just really well done.
Thank you for that. Thank you. And thank you for joining live too. It, for the people that did watch it live, it was a lot of fun to, 'cause Luann interacted while that was happening, and it was a lot of fun for that to happen and, and to see the, the response, right. And even yourself, like you, like you're saying, you got to learn her in a way that you didn't learn her before.
That's always my goal, right. Is to, as I'm telling the story of the entrepreneur, . Becoming. I want you to feel like this is a person that even if you, maybe you knew them a little bit, you get to know, learn them in a deeper way. And so thank you for that. Thank you for sharing that. It actually mission accomplished
and side note, I think these live premieres should be part of the new plan going forward. They were just, it was really fun. Just
really fun. So, moving on, , moving on from that, I was like, oh,
get the Popcorn.
Let's listen to Luann and let everybody's chatting and Jude's here. It was really fun.
Jude, we have Jude, the, the video documentarian. We have Jude, the entrepreneur. But as you said, I feel most importantly we have Jude Charles, the storyteller. Do you agree with that sort of, uh, hierarchy of, uh, descriptions about yourself?
Yeah, absolutely. I think. For me, I've always been a storyteller. I, at eight years old, I used to write 100 page books of what I thought my future life would look like. So I wrote books like The Police Life of Jew, Charles. 'cause growing up I wanted to be a police officer, but that never happened. Um, I also wrote the Baseball Life of Jew Charles, which also I wanted to be a ba, a baseball player.
And I was like, what would life look like if I played baseball? And so in all, I wrote 11 books. But like that is at my core. That is who I am. I'm the storyteller. I . started by writing stories and then filming stories, and now I'm on a podcast telling more stories, and that's, that's just who I am. That's what I've always done.
Well, I, love your story and you just touched on a little bit of it you mentioned a story to me and and for those who haven't heard it, I wanted to talk about it. But tell everyone your story from those high school days of how you started to see this career and this passion unfold for yourself. 
Yeah, I want you to imagine that you're 17 years old sitting in a TV production classroom. Thinking about what you will do with your future life, like where are you gonna go to college and and what career would you wanna choose? Well, that was me and I took a class called TV production. And in this TV production class, I had a teacher, Mrs.
Donnelley, who taught me everything she knew about video production. And then at the end of the school year, my junior year in high school, Mrs. Donny looks at me. She says, Jude, you're really, really talented at video production. You should start a business. Well, John, I'm the youngest of 10 children. My father 
10. Oh my gosh.
10 children, My father worked as a construction worker. Um, my mom worked at a chair factory, and I didn't know anything about being an entrepreneur. I didn't know what it meant to run a business. But the following day, May 5th, 2006, Mrs. Donnelley came into the classroom. With a yellow envelope. And she handed it to me and I was like, what is this?
And she said, look inside. Well, when I look inside of this yellow envelope, John, it is my very first set of business cards, and that is how I got started in video production. It was a teacher, a video production teacher who believed in me so much that she went out and purchased a set of business cards for me.
I wanna know, I wanna know, what did they say? What what was on the business card? Was it, you know, Jude Charles, business extraordinaire, ? What was
on there?
I'm just curious, what was she calling
So, the original, the original, uh, business card, I still have one to this day. It says, 
uh, video Precision by Charles. It says, 
video Precision by Charles, and it was . It was my first name, first and last name, and then, um, the address of the house that I lived in at the time. And then this was the, I think to me the funniest part was my email address, which was Jude Charles eighty8@yahoo.com at the time.
so she 
had, she had all that information in there. Um, But she, and, and it's, it's interesting because she had asked me that day, she told me I should started business. She asked me, but I didn't tell her yes or no. But she asked me, well, what would you name it if you could? And that's, that was the name I came up with.
It's video Precision by Charles. 
Don't ask me how, I don't remember how, but that 
is not the name I go by today. The name I go by today, the name, company name, at least it's Jew, Charles and Company. But, um, that is, yeah, that's the business card. That's what was on there.
That's so cool. I love it. I think, I mean, teachers, that's a whole other subject. They're so powerful and such an influence on our lives, and I I love that this teacher saw that in you and Oh my gosh, I feel, do you, I mean, don't you feel like that was just this, uh, starting point for you where you're like, okay, someone, I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but I maybe it felt like someone believes in me, like, now I can do this.
I, I do have the capabilities of doing this because, It's nice to be validated sometimes from someone on the outside who has really no stake necessarily in what you're doing. Right?
No, absolutely. There's no doubt that had Ms. Donnelley not believed in me so much that she bought business cards from me. I would not continue. I would not be doing this today. I didn't have it in my mind to start a business again. My, I 
didn't come from a family of entrepreneurs. I. I enjoyed working. My family, my parents were blue collar workers, so I enjoyed work and I knew that's what would come for me next.
But throughout like my career, I have been in business 17 years now as we're recording this. And I can tell you it was at least the first five years was definitely like I have to go through with this because Mrs. Donnelley believed in me like I have to. And so, yeah, there's no doubt that I wouldn't, I wouldn't be here today with, without Mrs.
Donnelley.
we should have done some sort of accountability recording for her so that we can go and you know, five years later, here's where I am and then, then 10 years later, here's where she would've loved that. I think
Well, I still, I still talk to Mrs. Donnelley today. She's almost close 
to 
way. 
but I 
still talk to her today. She's still teaching, um, still teaching video production, actually not at the same school, but still teaching video production. And I still talk 
to her because again, that she's very proud for sure, knowing, like, and I, I always give her credit saying that it was, it wasn't, you know, me, it was because of her.
But she's, she also says that she, Believes that if I had not, like if it wasn't me, I would like, it's up to me to go through with it. All she did was provided the, the inspiration, but I went through with it and, but I still talk to her. I still talk to her and, and 
remind her like, this is everything that I have done is because of this one moment in time.
Like
any Wonderful.
teacher, they don't take the credit for it. They, They, they
just say that I gave you the tools and you've excelled from there. So that's wonderful. Now that being said, nothing I feel is worth pursuing is Rarely ever easy, and you can attest to that as well. But had some struggles during your first five years in business, 
And I 
wanted. 
to talk about that. 
I, I'm all about practicality. I'm all about, you know, here is some definite things that will help people in their business and some that we can apply things right now. But I'm also about the mindset behind things and how we get to where we are and how we overcome things.
But what helped you? In, in your business and in and in your life, and tell me a little bit more about that and, and how that worked out for you.
first five years, I struggled to make $20,000 a year. Um, I struggled to get clients consistently. I struggled to, um, be able to be paid what I felt like I was worth at the time. I remember, um, after five years in business, this is about 2011, waking up one morning to the sounds of chains, hitting the floor.
and it had always been a nightmare for me to hear these chains hitting the floor. But when I jumped up outta bed, looked out the front window, what it was was a tow truck driver coming and repossessed my car for the second time in eight months.
Wow.
But John, I go back in my room, I sit on the edge of my bed and I'm in a soup of anxiety because I'm like, what is this?
Like this can't be life. I am struggling to make money. I'm struggling to keep up with bills. And as I'm sitting there, I get a phone call from a client that I had been working with for a year at that point. Her name is Keisha Dior. And Keisha Dior calls me in excitement. She's like, Jude, Jude, you won't believe it.
You won't believe it. And I'm like, what happened, Keisha? And she said, I just got off the phone with my accountant and he told me we did it. We crossed over the seven figure mark. We've made a million dollars with John . At that point, again, I'm struggling to make $20,000. I had produced this documentary series for Keisha, but I only got paid $3,000 to produce this documentary.
And Keisha in one year of running her business, she was running a cosmetic business and one year of running this cosmetic business had made $1 million. And I'm like, what is happening right now? ? I had a decision to look at this through two different lenses, and one lens was, here's proof. Here's proof that you know what Jude, you don't know what you're doing.
You should call it quits. Here's a client that's made a million dollars in one year. You're struggling to make $20,000 in five years. the second lens I could look at here is proof that I provide value. 
And if I could just learn what . Allowed Keisha to not only invest in my, in me producing this documentary for her, but also learn how she was able to make a million dollars.
What was the secret ingredient? Then I could turn things around. Well, John, I decided to look at things through the second lens, and I took a year off. I learned sales and marketing and order to continue to grow the business. How or what was the mindset that got me through that? It was understanding that I was in my own way and that I wasn't asking for help.
I wasn't, um, going to like online courses. I wasn't going to like, uh, workshops or looking at online courses. And so I realized like, okay, I just need to take a step back 'cause there's proof that it's possible if I just learned the right way to do it,
Wow. that applies to any business, to any person no matter if you are an entrepreneur, which most of my listeners are, or whether you work for someone else that can apply to anyone, is just to value what you bring to the table for other people. And I hate trading time for dollars.
I hate that. So I feel like if we just. What you did here had this realization of like, oh my goodness, I, first of all, I didn't charge enough for this because she got so much out of this and now she's hitting this mark and I'm sitting here having my car repossessed and you know, that had to be a wake up moment for you, but also the fact of, like you said, of what you delivered to her. In exchange for what she got out of that. And what you got out of that was two different scenarios. You finally realized once you saw her being successful, I guess is, is when you realized like, wow, there is value in what I'm bringing. did it make you understand at that point that you did need to, uh, basically correlate a fee to the value of what you're charging versus saying like, oh, I'm just going to charge, you know, this low fee, because That's how I valued myself at that time.
Yeah, it definitely made me think that, because what I noticed with Keisha Dior is that. For one, she bought into the vision of what I wanted to create for her. So when Keisha originally came to me, she wanted to do a vlog video, and I was just like, I don't wanna do vlog videos. So instead I presented a different idea of doing a documentary, just showing behind the scenes and more specifically getting into the mind of the entrepreneur.
Not just, okay, we see her picking out lipsticks, but like, why are you doing this? What is the bigger idea behind this? . And so that was the one thing, but the, so she bought into the vision. But the second thing that I noticed working on Keisha's project is once she bought into that vision, she didn't stop telling her story.
And that is truly how she made the million dollars. It's like over and over and over again, Keisha would tell the same story and she 
would market that story. Like once we were, the reason the documentary made a million dollars and I. Knew that the documentary was a big part of that is because we put a, um, and I shouldn't say we 'cause it was really her idea.
She put a, uh, discount code at the end of the documentary so that she could track sales. Now, mind you, this is 2010. This is not 
like, this is not popular. Yeah. This is not popular to, to track sales in this way, but she did it to track sales and so that's how I knew like part of the, the documentary was a part of this million dollar journey.
But again, it was like she did the documentary. She told her story and then she marketed it over and over. John, we produced this documentary series from 2010, 2013.
Hmm.
2017, I went back to her Facebook page and she was still promoting the last one we did in 2013. Right. But these were the things I learned from her that as an entrepreneur, You have to be relentless about promoting yourself.
You have to be, and not just promoting yourself. Your story specifically. I wasn't 
doing that back in 20 20 10. That was part of the reason, even though I was helping entrepreneurs with their story, I wasn't telling my own story. And yeah, and I think those are the, the, the key points that I took from working on that project that I was like, no, you're right there.
You're, you clearly know how to tell a story. You clearly know how to help your clients get to success. What if you just learned sales and marketing? You learned how to pitch a vision and to actually communicate what the value is that you're bringing, so that instead of asking for 3000, what I did the next time is ask for 15,000.
How do I communicate that with confidence, right? 
Like, how do I communicate? And that's, that is what I learned. That is what I took away from that is, you know what, just try one more time. Try one more time to do this in a different way and see if it works.
Yeah, two things there. I, I think that you are exactly right. You, you're, you're selling it with confidence and then you also Are understanding what deliverables you're bringing to the table. Now you're understanding like, oh, here's what value I have and I'm going to tell the client, here's what I can bring to you and here's what I'm going to do for you. Versus sometimes we just assume that our client might understand what we're doing and they do not. I tell my team all the time, overexplain, I don't care if you've said it a. Thousand times. Say it again? Because that client needs to hear the value in what we're bringing to them. And the other takeaway I had was, I call it after market marketing.
Because I love what you're saying is that she just kept using this and using this and using this, and I say it all the time as well, as a designer, if we are in a magazine or if we're featured in an article or whatever, I. That's not the end of that. We have to promote it in our newsletter.
We have to promote it on our blog. We have to promote it on social media. That thing has legs beyond that first initial, outcome and the same with your video. I mean those, that story I. I'm sure there's stories that can be broken up into so many different segments that can appeal to different people on a different day. And like I approach my social media posting for instance, with how I'm feeling. So, that day if I'm feeling a little melancholy or if I'm feeling motivated, you know, and I feel like you could break up someone's story. Possibly into those segments, and you can probably speak more to that, but there's, there's a, there's an arc to everyone's story, and if you sort of extract those pieces out, you do have a lot to promote after the fact.
And, and your client was, living proof of that.
Yeah, absolutely. you talk about aftermarket marketing, and John, I have to tell you the story. So I told you I went from 3000 to 15,000.
Well, the, the client that I charged 15,000, his name was William, and William was actually an interior designer. He came to me because he, we had worked on a different project, uh, parallel together.
I had worked on a project, uh, with the city of Pompano Beach telling the story of their 100 year anniversary. And, uh, William had worked on a different part of the project, but he didn't work on the documentary and so he remembered me a few years later, . and he said to me, you know what, Jude, I need what you did with Keisha.
He had actually watched Keisha's documentary and he was just like, I need what you did with Keisha. Well, I met with William. I sat down with him, asked him a bunch of questions. That was something I had learned in my sales and marketing, uh, courses that I had taken is learned. What does the client need and provide that as the value.
And then I remember pitching him, John and . In this pitch meeting, it took me a, a month to come up with a proposal and then I decided to pitch him and I'm telling him everything about what I'm getting ready to do. And then at the very end is where I ask for, I tell him what the investment is going to be and I tell him the investment is gonna be $15.
And then I learned you have to shut up right after you say the number , right? And so his next words shocked me though. He said, great. When do we get started? Now John, in my, at that point, six years of being an entrepreneur, I'd never had a client just go right away with, when do we get started? 
and you were saying 15,000.
right? 
15,000, right? 
Yeah. 
And the, my first thought was definitely not charging enough. But the second thought was, why did he say yes so quickly? And when you talk about aftermarket marketing, I asked him that a week later. I went back to William. I was like, William, look, I, I'm excited to work on this project. I'm grateful that you said yes, but what made you say yes to me?
There is an aftermarket marketing that happens where you go back to your client and you understand how they think, or why they think the way that they, they think.
Mm.
And William told me, . The reason that he decided to say yes so quickly is because part of my presentation, I did a storyboard and he was like, the moment he saw the storyboard, he understood that I was the only person for the job.
'cause I had a vision. Like I could say all the right words and I could, and I could definitely tell him like, you know, that I've been doing this for multiple years. But the fact that I put this storyboard together and then proceeded to tell a story, it helped him understand that nope, Jude's got it under control.
I have confidence in him. Therefore, I'm gonna hire him to do the job. Now, the reason that's important though is because that was in 2012, 2013. Guess what? Every time since I do a storyboard in my presentation, when I'm presenting to a client, because marketing doesn't just happen. Visibly on social media.
Marketing happens even when you're doing the sales pitch, you could use that storyboard in marketing later to show like, this is how we're able to do the work that we're able to do. To me is also another part of this, like the part that I wanna make sure the viewers pay attention to, is that after this project was successful with Keisha, I decided to break down what works.
After I was successful with making the pitch, I decided to look at, okay, what worked here so I know what to do the next time? That, that is a very important piece to dissecting how you continue to grow your business.
Isn't that fun? And he may have not even thought that he was capable of giving you enough information to provide you to do a storyboard. Like you came out with a storyboard for him and I'm sure you have lots of intake questions that you asked to get that storyboard done, right.
Yeah, absolutely. I have a, strategy session I call road mapping, which. Today it's four to six hours. Back then it was only an hour long, but it's, it's where I asked the questions to better understand the project and what he may want to film, or what 
the process of his business is. At that point, he had a eight step process in interior design, and I was like, okay, break that down for me.
Help me understand what that looks like. And that's how I was able to put the storyboard together.
For someone who may just be starting out or maybe just want to. Try their own hand at storyboarding, or maybe just say, Hey, you know, today I'm going to show a day in my life of my world. Today I'm at the office. can you give us like a little like, quick synopsis of like how we could do our own daily storyboard?
Like could we do that on our own? Like if we just were like a little like, you know, handheld on our, on our cameras, in our offices, like throughout our day. not to the level of course, that you do it professionally, but,
but what would be some tips that you would give people to say, okay, here's a good way to, you know, follow your day and maybe give some ideas for people how to do their own storyboarding for themselves, for their own little, versions.
Yeah. There's two things to that's important to a storyboard. The first thing I would say is the story part of the storyboard. A story . Very simply is about a very specific moment in time. So I told you about the moment in time Mrs. Donnelley gave me business cards, or I told you about the moment in time that William said yes to working with me.
Or I told you about the moment in time that my car was being repossessed, but my client called me the same day to tell me she made a million dollars. Well, there's moments that happened to us every single day. So the first thing you wanna think about is what is the moment that I can capture or tell the story of what's happening?
The second thing. Are the visuals of this storyboard. Over time, I've created this, uh, methodology of the, of dramatic demonstration of proof. And in dramatic demonstration, there are five different demonstrations. There's behind the scenes. So that is like what is happening when no one's looking.
There's a live illustration, so you can use objects to be able to communicate a story. I did this presentation once where, uh, I burnt out in my career in 2020, and I talk about the idea of how I had to build things back up to where I am today. And I use a Jenga set to be able to illustrate the idea of not only building things back up, but removing things from your life.
Because when you play Jenga, you have to remove a piece and put it on top. Well, I talk about removing the piece and never putting it back on top, right? And so that's live illustration. There's social proof, which is of course we, we know about testimonials, but I think about the visual social proof. Like if we do a big reveal as interior designers, if you do a big reveal, Is your client crying on the day of the big reveal, or are they happy or are they running to give you a hug?
Like that is the social proof. It is how the person physically responds to you. Unique mechanism might be your unique system or process of how you do things. So like I talked about William with his eight step process, or myself, I have dramatic demonstration or I have road mapping. How do you visually show what those steps look like?
Another part of unique mechanism is the personal characteristics. We talked about Luann, and in her docuseries. One thing I try to focus on with Luann is that Luann is very much, a people's person and she's very interested in you and what you have going on. And one of her famous first questions are, are you making money?
Right? But she's really genuinely asking and wanting to know, What is going on with you, right? And, but that's one of her unique mechanisms. And then finally, there's transformation. Transformation is before and after. So that's easy in interior design, but I like to take it a step further and think about life.
A really quick story about that is in a, a fitness coach that I heard speak once, and she talked about how she received a picture of an empty airplane from her client. Now, this fitness coach coaches women who are over 40, and this, uh, client said in the text message with this picture of the empty airplane, she says, this is the first time in my life, and again, keep in mind, she's over 40.
This is the first time in her life she hasn't had to ask for a seatbelt extension. life after isn't just about losing weight or losing a hundred pounds, it's about possibly saving herself from the embarrassment or the anxiety of having to ask for a seatbelt extension. So John, really quick, those five demonstrations are what we can think about as we're filming a day in the life of an interior designer.
What is behind the scenes? What is happening that . Maybe you're going to pick out drapery or you're going to pick out tiles, or you're looking at, how you're designing this room. Maybe you're making a three D rendering for the day, looking at behind the scenes of what's happening that day. a live illustration, right? Again, if you're going to pick out products, maybe giving it illustration as to why. X product versus another product, right? Uh, social proof. We talked about that day of install or the big reveal, how your clients are responding to it. unique mechanism, which could either be your unique characteristic or your unique process.
And then transformation. What does life after look like for your client? Those are the five things I always look for in every project that I do. But even when I'm storyboarding, I'm looking at, okay, what are the moments that I could look for to help recreate these five demonstrations?
Holy moly. I mean,
even in your explanation, you're telling stories. Jude, you You just, it is inside of you, isn't it? it is inherent in your body to tell stories. I love it. I love it. I was getting goosebumps through some of that. I was like, oh my God, I don't even know this, this, this fake designer we're talking about.
We pulled out of the air, but I love this person already. I wanna follow their day.
You know, to that point, John, that's, that is the power of storytelling. And is why I'm so passionate about it, there's a famous quote, by Maya Angelou. People will forget what you said. They'll even forget what you did, but they'll never forget how you made them feel.
And storytelling makes you feel.
transports you into a moment in time where you are there, where you feel like you're there with the person and now you wanna follow them and now you wanna learn more. I remember, so I talk about it in the beginning of this. I didn't tell stories in the beginning of my career.
Um, but I remember when 
I
can't imagine that. I cannot imagine that.
I remember when I first started telling a story about Mrs. Donnelley and something interesting would happened when I would say, Mrs. Donnelley gave me business cards. People would lean in and they'd be like, wait, why did she give you business cards? they were just so fascinated by, and I, and I, again, I realized it created an emotion.
It created an emotion that wasn't just a feeling, it was now a deeper conversation, and they got to learn me in a different way or learn more about me in a different way. you are 
seeing, you're talking about it happening for you live. Now, as I give examples, and I'm telling stories 'cause like you're getting goosebumps, but again, that is like if an interior designer listening to this takes one thing away, this is the point wanna have a deeper relationship with your potential client or your current clients so that they have a deeper relationship with you.
There's a feeling there's a bigger meaning behind the conversation and the work that you're doing. One thing I like to always tell interior designers, uh, especially as a creative, sometimes you want your clients to do things, but they don't get understand really why they need to do this or why they need to turn in paperwork in time, or why they need to pick out, um, products in time.
Well, if you tell 'em a story about someone that didn't pick out. Or do the thing that was necessary in time and what happened and what went wrong, it will help paint an easier picture for them to understand, oh, this is why I need to do this in time. Right? But I just wanna make sure people, as they're listening to this, they, they see it in real time.
Like John is responding to hypotheticals, hypothetical stories that I'm sharing, but he's responding it in real time to say, oh no, I really wanna get to know that person.
Yeah. And, and the, and the things that we remember, the biggest lessons in life that we remember are the ones that are those experiences and then those stories that we Probably have told ourselves, you know, I have this, if anyone wants to go back and listen episode one, I have this horrible story of how I got started, And it was literally that, you know, tears on the bathroom floor moment. And that was where I, I had this story in my head, but I never shared that with the world. And once I started sharing that story with other people, I had people relate to this story. Like, oh my gosh, yes, I had. A similar, horrible experience with a client, or I almost lost everything, you know, my family and, and my, my financials and my life and everything. And once you start sharing those stories, that is where, as you're saying, I totally agree, that's where the power comes in and other people find little nuggets that they, that they can relate to. That story and it just empowers everybody. But I will say this, I don't feel that every story has to be that every story doesn't have to be, you know, this grand life changing story.
Sometimes it's just a story, right? Sometimes it's just a nice story how you designed a room or a home for a client as us as designers. you know, but a, a pretty room is just a pretty room a pretty room with a story behind it, whatever that story is. I think that will continue to draw people in, even after the aesthetics as excitement of it has faded down the road.
And as you said, you can just keep telling different parts of that story. as you show different rooms of that home. And that's how I love to show homes that we've designed is, you know, this room is designed for this daughter and the daughter needed a quiet space to learn. So we designed a special area of the room for her to have, you know, total quietness and total peace.
And this is where she does her homework and et cetera, et cetera. those little stories too can sometimes be as impactful as the bigger ones. Do you agree with that?
A thousand percent. I love that you brought that up, because I think some people get intimidated by the idea of storytelling in their business, but there are what I call atomic stories, these small stories that actually have big meaning, right? Or that . That again, helps you communicate easier and the stories of, like you mentioned with rooms, um, or with just working with a client.
Maybe you just really enjoyed working with the client itself and you tell the story of that. Those stories are powerful too, because again, they go so much further than just the before and after. It's like, no, this is what really went into this. This is what this person was looking for. Maybe like, William in his, uh, video, his brand story that we created.
I remember him telling a very simple, small story, but it gets the point across. He says that people are often surprised at the details that we want. And he was like, I had a client once who I asked him, you know, where he sits in the morning to drink his coffee. And he was just like, you really need to know where I sit in the morning.
But again, it's a small story. It doesn't have this big transformation, but it helps to illustrate like . Yes. Although you might be shocked that I need to know the small details, but it helps because now when that guy goes to sit and drink his coffee in the morning, he has a different experience because William thought so deep into that specific moment in time.
Right? So yeah, I agree with you a thousand percent that these stories, they don't have to be this big arching, overarching story. But there's only one thing you have to remember about a story. It is the specific moment in time. There's a difference between stories and statements. If you just say a statement of, we're gonna get the job done, or we're gonna do it right, that's a statement.
But if you tell me a story about maybe a moment in time where the project almost went awry, or maybe the vendor wasn't paying attention, but you stayed on top of it and you got it done right. , that's a very specific story, a very specific moment in time. That's all you have to focus on. Don't worry about the steps to storytelling.
Don't worry about, you know, the way that some people have complicated over time. What is the very specific moment in time, and then maybe the lesson that you learned in that moment in time. But that's it. Story, lesson, and then it communicates what you want to the client.
Now, you talked to me about a story hook. Is that what you're talking about here?
No, that's different. So the story hook is how you drop someone into the stories, right? So I talked 
about, uh, with Keisha, the Keisha di or my car being repossessed. waking up that morning to the sounds of chains, hitting the floor, Mrs. Donnelly, I started with, imagine you're 17 years old sitting in a, in a classroom, and you're thinking about what you would do in the future of life, right?
Like it's how do you drop this person into this story? That's the hook. How do you introduce it? There's many different hooks, many different ways. Sometimes you drop 'em into the middle of a story or sometimes you start at the beginning, but you wanna make sure they're paying attention. There's another story I tell John.
I call it my Spokane story. And the way that I usually start that story is I'll ask, have you ever been to Spokane, Washington? Right? Because a story actually takes place. Part of it at least takes place in Spokane, Washington. So I'll start with that. And then what that does though is that invites the person into the story with me.
So those are the different kind of story hooks that I like to think about is just how do you, . Invite this person into your world. 'cause it's a different world, right? You're inviting them into what's going on in your life, or you're inviting them into a story that has happened. How do you invite them into that?
That's how you create these hooks.
I love, oh my gosh. Okay. I'm gonna start bringing hooks into everything I do from now on. If, even if it's for a a 32nd, uh, reel on Instagram, there's, there's gonna be a hook. Thanks to you Jude So look out for my, look out for those hooks, everybody. They're gonna start happening. The power of video. Has just been increasing, increasing and increasing for a long time now, and I feel like you were there on the precipice of it before. You know, kind of, it even got to where it is now, but I think more and more people are seeing the importance of it and, and I, I don't, I have used it professionally in different homes and, and, and again, having some interviews. But not to the level and the expertise that you perform and that you bring to your clients. And I even do it on a very simple way. For instance, I record myself explaining our proposal to a client. So it's, instead of doing a live explanation of our proposal, I will video record myself and I'll lead them through the proposal and the proposal's on the screen, and it's me on camera. But even that little simple gesture I feel is You know, I can drop some stories in there as you're saying, and I even that I feel gives them a sense of the personality of myself and the firm. So video is powerful in so many different ways. And even if it's for the simplest of things, like I'm talking about, or in the grandest of ways, in the way that you produce docuseries and your documentaries and your, services for businesses.
So I just feel like video is, is powerful. Can you speak to that in general? Just the power of video and like why it is so powerful these days and how More and more of us are seeing the power of that. And, and, and also I'd like to know after we know the power of it, how do you see us using it? You mentioned all the ways that your clients used it.
Where, where would we place some of these videos if we don't have, you know, a lot of followers on YouTube, for instance, which is probably where most people think, oh, I'm gonna put a video. Where would we put these videos after they're filmed, after we hire you to do them?
Yeah, so the power of video and the reason that it has, uh, overtaken social media, it has overtaken YouTube, obviously, it's a whole platform for it is three dimensional. there is first the visual element. You can see the person on camera, right, or see the person through their screen. Then there's a audio where you can hear the person.
Now on podcasts, of course, you get to hear the person too, but . That's why I say it's three dimensional. 'cause you get the visual and the audio, but then there's a third part that you talk about, which is the feeling they get to see and feel your personality. I can get really excited about saying something and that creates a feeling.
Or I can slow down in the way I say something and that creates another feeling and that's what can happen and what does happen through video. Now, what I love that you asked me about that I spend a lot of time thinking about is. Where or how do we best leverage the video? It's not enough to create a video.
It's not enough to tell a story, but then you have to make sure people see it. Now, I mentioned this with Keisha, New York. Keisha was relentless about making sure that people saw it, even if it was five years later. Here's a reminder. Here's the video again. A few different ways that you can use video in your business.
Specifically. Video storytelling is through email marketing. So let's say someone reaches out to you and they wanna work with you and they wanna set up that first meeting. If you have a video already set up, maybe it's your brand story of who you are, the people that work with you. The kind of work that you guys love to do, that is the, you get on the phone with them.
Maybe you have the conversation, you set up the appointment. Now you send out the first email and say, this is who we are. Learned a little bit more about us. Now that video, that email that has the video in it, that video can live on your website too, but it is now being introduced to your client to get to learn more about us.
after you've met with a client and maybe they're thinking about it and they're thinking about working with you, they're just not sure. You can send them a second video of client testimonials, people that have, uh, hired you before and have loved the process of working with you. Now, here's a second video that you can use.
So what I'm talking about here is an email campaign. It could be three videos, five videos, but that's one way is through email marketing. Another way is social media. Obviously with . Smaller clips, 62nd, 32nd, and 62nd clips just showing behind the scenes of what's happening. Maybe you're, again, going to the day of install and you're taking this person on the journey with you there, their social media.
I've done the same thing as you, John, where I've done a pitch video. Where maybe I couldn't meet with a client. of my clients I get, uh, I live in Florida, but most of my clients come from outta town. So like I have a client I was pitching two weeks ago that lives in Utah. And so I created a pitch video telling my story, showing the proposal list of what I wanted to create.
But I did it through video. And that's another way, right? And so there's a lot of different ways to use video storytelling. Um, actually have 70 different ways that I talked, I talked through with my client, but those are three different ideas there where it's just e it's either email marketing and social media on your website.
sometimes even in person in one-on-one meetings. I love to show videos because again, there's just certain things you can't illustrate through talking through it, where it's better to illustrate through actually showing a video.
I agree. And then there's the emotion. If you're adding music in the background, if you're, you know, dramatic or happy or whatever, it just adds so much. To that. What do you say to someone who says, I hate being on camera. I hate filming myself. I never, ever, ever wanna see myself on, on a camera. What do you say to that person who, because I have a lot of students in my own courses, in my own program who says, I will never do an Instagram live, or I will never, you know, go on, uh, a reel and show myself. What do you say to the person that says, I'm not good on camera? Or I, or, or maybe they think I don't have an interesting story to tell.
What do you say?
Yeah. I'll start with the second question. So second part of that question. So many people diminish the stories they have, and I used to be one of those people I would think that, uh, that Mrs. Donnelley gave me business cards. So what, like, what's so ? Different or great about that. we each have a story to tell every single one of us.
We have moments in time that have happened to us that are interesting and they're interesting to other people. So that's the first thing I would say is like, just what's happened to you that day? Write it out on my desk. What lives on my desk and I spend time on it every single day is what I call a story bank, a journal.
My story bank journal is literally just random moments that have happened throughout the day that I document. So that if I come on a podcast like this today or if I'm talking to someone, I'm able to share that moment in time. So that's the first thing is just there's stories happening to you. They're interesting stories.
Just take the time to think about what they are and share them. But to the person who's afraid to be on camera or doesn't like how they look or any of those things, I, I used to, I get in some ways I used to be that I was an introvert. I still am an introvert, but I made a conscious decision in 2019 to step outta the shadows.
And as much as it was nerve wracking, I remember the very first time I did a speech, a uh, I had a talk to marketers in New York, and I had been to this conference before, but the year before, this was 2018, I went to the conference. There was only about 50 people there, so I was like, you know what? I feel comfortable.
They asked me to come and speak the next year. I feel comfortable doing this. Well, John, when I walked in to that conference center the following year, 2019, . And I was going there for rehearsal. I noticed the room was a lot bigger and they had 200 seats now set up and they were expecting 200 people there.
And I began to talk myself out of, you know what? I don't think I can really do this. Like, I had began to think, okay, I need to reach out to these organizers and just let them know, Hey, you know what, I'm kind of feeling sick. I don't think I can do this. What I decided to do instead is I recorded my entire speech.
I went back to my hotel room, recorded my entire speech 
in my phone, and then I played that recording over and over. I put headphones in and, and played that recording over and over as I slept because I was like, this will gimme the confidence to feel like I know what I'm getting ready to say. But John, I gave the speech and what surprised me, this is the first time
That I'm really like doing a, like, I'm public speaking. What surprised me is that people lined up in the back of the room to just tell me what they took away from it or tell me, like, I opened it, I opened part of my speech with, me going skydiving for my 30th birthday, and I actually showed that video and people talked about that.
Right. But what it showed me is that, They were paying attention and they actually liked it and they weren't talking about whether or not, I don't know, maybe I had crooked glasses or maybe, or not my shirt wasn't straight or maybe that I looked silly on stage. No, they were telling me all the great things they took away from it.
And I think when you think about creating videos and knowing that people will gain value from what you're sharing, how you look doesn't really matter. You just have to give it a try. And that's what I try to, uh, I try to tell, um, other people who are afraid to be on camera. At the very least, start with audio.
Maybe you're doing an audio. Let's say you're an interior designer and you have just photographed a home that you just finished. Talk me through that. At least on audio, you're doing a, maybe you're doing a slideshow video, but talk me through the audio should be talking me through what happened on this project.
Right. And that's another way to begin to introduce the idea of you being on camera. You warm up to the idea, but I definitely think in, in 2023 and beyond. We should be on camera and we should be allowing the people that wanna work with us that are just waiting for us to show up. We should invite them into seeing who we are, what we're about, get to know who we are so that they will continue to work with us.
Well, if
there's.
one thing a designer can do, it's talk about why we chose that fabric, why we chose that flooring, why we chose that sofa. We can definitely talk about a project. So if anyone out there is , Feeling intimidated or worried about not having enough to say. I think all we have to say is, tell me about why you designed this room the way you did, and then we're gonna talk for hours about it, So you're, you're exactly right. You're exactly right there. let's talk about the real reason why we would all make a video other than showing the world who we are and what we do and, and about our lives in general, and telling our story. But it's really to get more clients too, at the end of the day.
Right. It's to get more business. And I always say selling is serving. I love that mantra. And I feel like your creations, I feel like they come from a place of serving the viewer as well, but they're, we're also selling something. So how, how does your work allow us to win over more clients as a, as an interior designer in our industry, as a creative.
People don't buy what you do. They buy who you are. We like to do business with people that we know, like, and trust. And the way for people to know, like, and trust you is for them to know who you are, what you stand for, like what you stand for, and trust that you can provide a solution to their needs. How does video storytelling allow you to do that?
Again, it just invites them into your world. It invites them into getting to know you, and that becomes your differentiator. We're in 2023 as we're recording this. Instagram is flooded with interior designers who just show the finished product. So if you're competing thinking that you have the best picture, you have lost that immediately.
What makes the difference is that no one, and I mean absolutely no one can duplicate who you are. There are core values that you stand on and things that you believe in. So for example, my core values are, uh, depth versus width. storytelling, obviously adventure I tend to talk about like whether I go skydiving or zip lining or different things like that.
relentless. My why is to lead and empower entrepreneurs to have relentless courage, but I talk about that in some of the videos that I create and . Even coming here on the podcast, I talk about courage and, and different things like that. So the, the core values and just again, dimensionalizing who you are, that is your differentiator, and 
that will be the one differentiator that, again, no one else can duplicate.
They can't, they could probably duplicate how you take pictures. That can probably even duplicate your style. Let's just say hypothetically you have a very specific interior design style, but they can't duplicate you. And how you lead and how you communicate that just, it's not possible. And so that's why I think it's important.
And so I think it's important to be able to, not only create these videos, but to take people on a journey so that they really get to understand who you are. I'll tell one quick story, John, that I tell at the opening of every road mapping session in. 2014, I went to Spokane, Washington because I wanted to go to this leadership conference, and I always knew that leadership was important to me.
I just didn't know how. And in 2014, I'm 25 years old at the time, and I go to this leadership conference in Spokane, Washington. Now I've already mentioned I live in Florida. At the time I was living in Pompano Beach, Florida, which Florida is the furthest southeast point of America. Washington state is the furthest northwest point of America.
Well, John, I had this crazy idea. That after the three day conference, I would take a trip back home from the furthest northwest point to the furthest southeast point, and it
Would, it would happen on a Greyhound bus.
oh my.
as you can imagine, it was one of the dumbest ideas I've had, but I, I took the trip. On day two, I got to Chicago, Illinois and I'm miserable.
I am completely miserable 'cause there's, let's just say there's just a lot of weird people on this Greyhound bus. But day two I turned back on my phone 'cause I had my phone off the whole time. I turned back on my phone and one of the very first text messages I get is from my sister and it says, call me back.
It's urgent. Well, John 2014, my dad had been diagnosed with prostate cancer and my mom was suffering from depression and had attempted suicide before. So when I get this text message from my sister, I'm bracing myself because I know this means it's either mom or dad. I call my sister. She says they found my dad unresponsive in the home.
Now she won't tell me because I'm on the road, but I know what that means. That means that he's passed away. So I take the first flight back home. I get on a plane now. I take the first flight back home from Chicago, Illinois to Fort Lauderdale, Florida. My brother James comes to pick me up from the airport.
He comes with his daughter, my niece Ayana, and I decided to sit in the backseat with my niece, Ayana. She's all of nine years old. But I feel lost. I'm looking out the windows or driving to my father's house, and I feel lost because I'm like in the youngest of 10, he'll never get to see me get married or have children.
And as we're driving Ayana again, nine years old, she looks at me, she says, uncle, why did grandpa have to die? And I stared at her. 'cause how do you respond to a nine year old asking you about death? And she said it again. Why did grandpa have to die? As we're preparing funeral arrangements and, um, deciding what to do with my father's assets, that question rang in my ear.
Why did grandpa have to die? Well, on August 9th, 2014, I got my answer when we're going to lay my father to to rest. I drew Charles, the youngest of 10 children am asked to give my father's eulogy. There are other males in my family, and obviously I'm not the oldest, I'm the youngest, but I get asked that, and it it, helps me to understand that at the most difficult moment in my family's life, they're calling on me to lead because that was part of my gift and my calling to be able to lead through difficult moments.
And now John, I tell that story at the beginning of road roadmapping because this is the way that I ended. I am not here to tell you how to tell, how to create a video or even help you to tell a story. Instead, I'm just here to lead you through this process because I'm gonna ask you difficult questions, questions that you may not have been asked before, but I understand that if you trust me, I will lead you to the right place.
Hmm.
Now, 
this story. It says so much more about me than just, Hey, I'm here to help you tell a story. I'm here to help you create a video. It creates a different frame, right? But you get to learn more about who I am and the things that I do and how I do them beyond just the thing that I do. And so when you ask like
Why should we be doing video? And yes, absolutely it's about getting clients, but when you tell the stories and you show people behind the scenes of what's going on in your business, that is what bonds them to you in a completely different way than just, oh, this is another vendor I'm working with. I have now been working with Luann for almost three years now, I believe.
And it's because of that exact story that I started with. The exact one, and it's the one that I continue to share over and over so that people understand who I am beyond just video production or beyond just storytelling.
Well, it, it's a very powerful story and I've, I can think we all can take a lot of lessons from storytelling in general, especially from you, and I'm thankful that you want to work with us crazy designers, that you're willing to tell our stories because I know, I know we all have Stories to tell. And we all have a reason for why we're in this industry and why we do what we do and why we design the way we design and why we run our businesses the way that we run them.
And so thank you for, you know, helping us spread the word in such a, a beautiful way. And if you haven't been to Jude's website, please go. It is, it's your, your video on there. They speak for themselves. Frankly, that's, they literally are beautifully done and they are just storytelling. At its best, but, tell me about, before we close out, I wanna talk about your book.
Uh, tell me about it, first of all, and then where we can find your book. Tell everyone about that.
Yeah, so I wrote a book called Dramatic Demonstration, how to Attract Premium Clients and Scale Your Business With Visual Storytelling. It walks you through step by step, many of the things that we talked about today. It walks you through that step by step. You can find that book@judecharles.co, which is my website.
Um, and there are three different clients, three different case studies that I walk you through exactly how they did it. Like I helped them do it in their business, the results that they've gotten. And then again, on page 33, I believe it, on page 67, sorry, there are 33 questions that walk you through how to do this for yourself.
yeah. And then that's, that's been my life's work. It is. Much of what I talked about today, the five different dramatic demonstrations, but it walks you through this road mapping process so that you create a roadmap for yourself and to be able to communicate to your clients, uh, confidently with clarity, and also to be able to communicate with your team as well.
I love it and, and is that the best place for people to find you to reach out as well? Just go to your website.
Yeah. Jude charles.co. Um, reach out to me. I am, uh, available and I am passionate about working with interior designers. Thanks to Luann Nigara I worked on her docuseries and we continue to work together. But, um, y yes, interior designers are an interesting bunch, but it's also like, it, it takes me back to my roots.
And I mentioned William at the beginning of this, um, who was also an interior designer. And I am just passionate about continuing to help interior designers bring their story to life, continue to grow, and, um, what interior designers are doing are literally changing lives. You're creating . Beautiful homes and spaces for families, and I just wanna, I play a small role in that and I wanna continue to play a small role in that.
And that's why the synergy between what you do and what we do is so powerful and it works so well together. You mentioned to me that you might have a little freebie for everyone listening. What would that be? 
Yeah. So I have, 10 storytelling prompts for interior designers, specifically for interior designers. Like, if you're serious about this and you, you're like, you know what? I still don't know where to get started. 10 storytelling prompts. You go to jude charles.co/lead, l e a d, and that is where you're able to get the 10 storytelling prompts for, uh, for interior designers.
There's also other examples in there, so it helps you. . I understand how to actually craft the stories, and it's, it's, it again, walks you through step by step. I not only get on podcasts to continue to share my mission and, and help others with storytelling, but I create these, these, uh, documents and books as well to help with that.
So drew charles.co/lead. and that will help you get to the storytelling prompts.
Wonderful. Well, Jude, thank you so much for joining me today and for being open and Sharing all of this fabulous information. I know my audience has learned a lot, and I can tell that your story is just beginning, sir, and I would love to have you back to see the full evolution of it, if you don't mind.
Oh, I would love to. I would absolutely love to. Uh, thank you again for, having me on the podcast and really having a great conversation. Like that is what you're doing and I know, um, this podcast is, is, uh, . Fairly new, but at, at least at the time, we're recording. But what you're doing is, is amazing, and I know you have a book as well that you've come out with and you have extensive knowledge and experience in this industry.
So thank you for having me on to share with your audience.
It's a blast. Thank you for being here today, Jude. 
 
 
 
Wow. Wasn't that great. You guys. I hoped you learned. From Jude and his stories. The power that good storytelling has. And what I learned from this episode was that storytelling can find its way into everyday conversations. It can find its way into our conversations with our clients, with our family, with our friends, anybody. And it just goes to really prove lots of points as we are having these conversations. So the power of storytelling is a real thing in our lives and in our business. and I also loved how Jude broke down the process of creating our own storyboards. Right. So we can create our own storyboards. And our everyday lives. And how cool is that? That even if you're recording just a reel of yourself for Instagram, you can create a storyboard of your day and of course I love the story of Jude's. Teacher Mrs. Donnelley giving him those business cards. It's always inspiring to hear a beautiful story like that. Of someone who believes in us and who sees the ability in us when we don't even see it in ourselves. So I urge you today. Go out there. Start small. If you want try some videos out on your own video is the future. I'm telling you, it is the way to get noticed right now, because it is growing in popularity. As Jude said, if you're simply showing photos on social media, on your Instagram, you are not going to compete with everyone else out there who is showing video video is the popular medium right now. And you really do need to try it out. I love this tip as well about if you're a little timid about being on camera, you can just record your voice. So record a voiceover as you're showing images or video of your projects that you're working on at the end of our project. When you do your final install, take a video around the house and you don't even have to record your audio. At that time, you can just record the video and just simply walk through the house, showing slowly every room and then record your audio later. 
Or if you want, you can record the audio at the same time, but I liked Jude's way of easing. And yourself into the actual process of being on camera. By using your audio ahead of time. So lots and lots of good tips there. thanks again to Jude for joining me, head over to his website, Jude Charles.CO and grab that freebie that he has for you there as well. And thank you again for listening today. I want to hear your story as well. So let me know what you think about the podcast. If you haven't left me a review yet, I would love for you to do that. 
Or if you want to hear a specific topic. Discussed on the podcast. Please let me know that as well. you can shoot me a message in my DM on Instagram, on Facebook, wherever, but I would love to hear any specific topic because this podcast again is for you. Thank you for listening to my friend and I will see you next time. Make it a great day.
Thanks for sticking with me to the end of the designer within podcast. It means the world to me. If you're ready to dive deeper into the topics that we've discussed here, be sure to check out my online courses and coaching program, the designer within business. You will join other like minded creatives in various phases of their own businesses.
Whether just starting out or career veterans who are enjoying the freedoms and profits that can come from an organized and structured business. Now's the time to make the change for you and your company. And I'll be right by your side the entire way. Learn more at johnmcclain. co that's johnmcclain. co