Hi. Good to see you. It's so nice to attend this program. Big fan of yours. I've been following you since those daily love, emails. Back in the days. And, I love that. So I, figured out that I'm stuck in healer dominance. Yes. And I have done, like, a lot of, like I feel like everything you said in healer dominance was was pointing out to me to the tee. How do I come out of it? When you're in healer dominance, it's sometimes in a way harder than
when you're in achiever dominance. And here's what I mean by that. Okay? Achiever dominance has a bias towards action. Right? And so in a way, there's a it's not it's it's not like it's better, but there's usually some momentum. And with people who are in achiever dominance, it's actually harder for them to open up and
feel their feelings. So they have a different problem set. Okay? When you're in healer dominance, what happens is you you experience so much emotion that you think that getting your emotions right is what's gonna have to happen before you take action. And the simplest thing to understand is that taking action I'm gonna say this now. Okay? Do you have a I'm assuming you have a background in some type of relationship with, like, somatic work or
bottom up work or parts work or something like that. Is that true? Yes. Okay. Okay. So so taking action is bottom up. It is somatic. Does that make sense? Fascinating with that. Like I understand. Because you're a healer all day long. Right? Now check this out. Why do you think you're procrastinating? I think deep down, I still feel that I need to, like, learn more Yes. Do more to to take action. I deep down, I feel I'm not good enough. That's right.
Because in your history dumb. Maybe. In your history, I bet that there was value relationally in you being the person who could understand other people. Is that true? Yes. Yes? Yes? Okay. So I don't know. Let's check. Do you have a lot of conditioning in your history that says when I take action and choose myself, people around me are happy about it? I'm not sure. Okay. Blanked out, so my answer is probably I'm like, let's try that again. Okay. I'm a
say it again. Okay? By the way, you know you're on a blind spot when somebody checks out like that. Okay? So it's okay. It's okay. So let me say it again. In your history, okay, in the past, certainly when you were younger, but even in the recent past, do you have experiences? Have you been conditioned that when you choose yourself, when you move forward, when you take action, whether it's right or wrong, that the people around you endorse that, celebrate it, and want you to do those
things? Choosing yourself. Not really. It is neutral. Okay. So you weren't rewarded for action. You were rewarded for feelings and for understanding others. Is that true? Yes. Okay. So you don't have not been conditioned that I can be successful. I can have people in my life that celebrate me taking action. What your nervous system defaults to is, let me be the one who understands, and understanding is my pathway forward. Right?
And if I can't understand it or if I can't take if I can't process it, then that's a sign to stop because I have to process it first. And we wanna balance that out with recognizing there's only certain things we can understand through action. So the the what's hard about, people who are more into healer dominance when we look at the neuroscience is that when people are are are I'll talk about achievers. When when achievers are in, like, achiever doesn't go mode, right, their brain
is taking so much information and saying, not right now. Does that make sense? Right? Mhmm. And and there's there's a there's a it's almost like a muscle that gets built. It could be dissociation sometimes. It could certainly be, suppression. Okay? But when we're a more in a healer frame, our brain is more under practiced at that. So there when we're more a healer or bottom up person, we don't have as much practicing, not right now. In fact, not right now can feel dismissive. It can
feel bypassing. It can feel like it's not like, you're not important. But check this out. Okay? In your somatic and bottom up work, have you ever encountered the phenomenon of dissociation? Has anyone ever talked about, like, you know, fragmented parts or things you're not aware of or bringing things out of your consciousness that were unconscious back back into consciousness. Have you ever encountered that idea of dissociation? No. I I have just, like,
heard some somatic, speakers. I haven't really done a course formally and some yoga. So, no, I'm not Have you heard the of the term dissociation before? Yes. I have. Okay. So when I say the word dissociation, what's the first thing that comes to mind for you? That I get disassociated with? I don't know. But what's the what what would you this is kind of a tricky question. What what do you associate with dissociation? What is it what does it mean to you? Like, what's happening right now almost?
You're doing great. What's happening in your system right now? Associate associate, like, can't concentrate, basically. Yeah. Okay. And when you check out, right, or you dissociate, right, where are you? Are you in your body? In my head. In your head. Right? In my head. That's right. And when you're in your head, what's that like for you? It's it's like overthinking, overwhelm. That's right. Right? And so your solution chaos. That's right. And so your solution has been to
what up until now? I'm sorry. I lost It's okay. Up until now, what has your solution been? When you feel all that chaos and all that type of stuff, the default is what? I basically just journal, process emotions, you know, go back to, like, those. Yeah. That's right. So I wanna understand all these things are overwhelming. And if I can't understand them and process them, they overwhelm me. Does that make sense? Yeah. Right? And when I'm overwhelmed and
I'm not in my body, I'm dissociated. Does that make sense? Okay. That Yeah. I'm not yeah. Say what? Yeah. You're not in your body. Okay? Now in general, here's what's crazy. In general, especially in the trauma fields, the word dissociation is sort of a negative term. Right? It's like I'm fragmented. I'm dissociated from all this trauma. I'm I have all these parts that are fragmented or whatever. Right? So this is this you can understand that you know
what I mean because your head's nodding up and down. Now did you know that when you visualize your future or when you're creating new parts of yourself, you are also dissociating? Imagine visualizing your future. That's also dissociation. Because dissociation is not being in the present moment. Right? I'm not here. I'm somewhere else. Right? Well, I could be somewhere else that's beneficial or not. And here's the thing. High performers dissociate intentionally in the moment because they
have to push through something hard. Right? So many times when we're in a healer mode, usually, you have been maybe gaslit or you're in your, reality hasn't been paid attention to or you've been, like, not, important or significant to people. And so it's your way of saying, I need to be here. And any version of dissociating or shifting from that emotional state can be seen as
a negative in your system. Does that make sense? It does. So but on the achiever side, if you wanna get more into emotional fitness, there's a time and a place to dissociate on purpose. And the difference between dissociation that heals you or helps you and dissociation that traumatizes you is is it chosen? Is it something you're doing on purpose, or were you forced? Right? Trauma forces you to dissociate
because it's overwhelming, I can't take it. Right? But if I have to push through 2 more bench presses, right, or if I have to just push through and not be in my body for a second to, like, make something happen for a short period of time, that's a good use of dissociation. If I need to separate myself from my present moment beliefs so that I can imagine a future that I wanna create, that's a good use of dissociation in the moment. Does that make sense? Right? Yeah. It's intentionally
dissociating. That's right. Which can be healing, not traumatizing. It can help you perform better. So for you, it's about Exactly. So for you, it might be about learning to dissociate from needing to figure it out and process it so that you can take action. And I'll give you a very practical example. Okay? Let's just pretend for a moment that you're dehydrated. Okay? And you need water. Okay? The healers are like, why am I dehydrated?
Was Mercury in retrograde? What about my trauma history? Why did I ask for a glass of water? Why can't I take the cup off the top of the water? Oh my god. Like, what are the mechanisms of action in the body that cause dehydration? And what happens in the brain when it's dehydrated? Does my vagus nerve get dehydrated? I don't really know. And my gut microbiome, what happens there? And then probiotics cause micro maybe it
was the gluten from yesterday. They're just, like, figuring it all out because we have to figure it out on some level because we need agency over our body. Right? But in the moment, what's useful is to drink the freaking water. Take action. And that actually solves the problem in the moment. But, Mastin, I'm a be dehydrated tomorrow. We'll drink act take water drink water again. So sometimes, we need nutrition, not an explanation, and taking action can be
nutrition. Right? It doesn't make sense, really. It's not really useful other than safety per se for survival to figure something out cognitively or sort it through emotionally when it could be solved with action, like leaving the relationship. Sense. Totally. Like posting on social media, like, whatever it might be. Now, conversely, it doesn't make any sense to take action on something that needs to be processed emotionally. You cannot outhustle your trauma. You
can't. So there's a balancing act, but emotional fitness in your nervous system says, right now, what's appropriate is actually, I don't need to figure it out. I need to take actions. And for you, that's gonna be baby steps into taking smaller and smaller pieces of action to start to build more capacity. Think about, like, going into the gym. You're not gonna pick up the 100
pound dumbbells. You're gonna pick up the 5 pound dumbbells. You're gonna warm up. You're not gonna overwhelm yourself, and you're gonna go slow, and you're gonna build more capacity over time. Right? Which is different than someone who's been training super hard for 10 years, and they need to go do physical therapy because they tore their rotator cuff or something. It's a different approach. Does that make sense? K. Beautiful. So does that answer your question? Steps. Yeah. It does.