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Hi! How's it going? Good, how are you? Not too bad. Excellent, this is awesome by the way, those contents you've got are on fire. Thank you, thank you. So one of the things that I've been battling with has been kind of still shutting down and going to bed and then going through the stuff that you went through yesterday and filtering through, there's definitely an element of being scared to feel positive emotion. Yeah. And yeah, I'm just wondering, I don't really know what to do with that.
With how to stop shutting down and ending up in bed for days on end. And I had questions and now I'm talking to you, it's all gone. Is that part of that shutdown? I think maybe. That makes sense. It's like, don't go there. It's like, it's like you ever do this where like, like you like have like, you swear you have questions for your therapist or whatever, and then like you show up and you're like, oh, I don't even know, let's just talk about good stuff. You know? Because you're with me.
Meanwhile, it's like so much shit's hitting the fan. What I can tell you is that like, part of what we want is we want to understand where it's hard for you to assert yourself. Right? And that asserting yourself can look like all kinds of things, right? Like preferences, boundaries, saying no, saying yes, right? Saying what you want. And a lot of times when we collapse what we want, we don't even admit it to ourselves. - Yeah. - Right?
So like, I think the first thing to do is to admit to yourself what it is that you wanna work on. - Okay. I would say it's probably around not being okay to do anything that's enjoyable. That goes back a very long way to like when I was a kid I had vivid memories of coming home and being asked how my day was and I'd be like "Oh it was good" and it was like "Oh nice for you." You know really nice. That's that tall poppy vibes right?
Yeah really negative response to that. So then I started lying about having a good day, if I had a good day, because you don't want the negative. And then you wouldn't get talked to all night because you'd happen to have had a good day. But I think I've become where I just can't do it. I've shut down completely, even though it's not who I'm around anymore. Like for instance, my birthday last week. Happy belated. But like I took it on Facebook. I come into it. I didn't want to do anything.
I didn't do anything with my family. I was like, "Let's do it next week." Because I know if I say, "Let's do it next week, next week," eventually we just won't do it. And then I won't have to face it. I took my birthday on Facebook because I didn't want the responsibility of not getting back to people. I just hated that burden. It was just like, "I'm never, I don't even know you really. I'm and I'm not going to say thank you. I don't want to say thank you.
If you want to wish me a happy birthday, don't text me. Unless I invite you to my party. Other than that, don't even think about it. And also, I would say this, people really want to show up for you on your birthday, right? It really gives you an eye to their actual capacity. And I'm like, "I think you should treat me this way all the time." Right? But I hear what you're saying around the positive emotion, and that means that there's a
panic, a fear. What comes, what in abandonment, a grief? What is the feeling associated with expressing positive emotion or feelings? I think it's guilt. Guilt. So it's the guilt of feeling good. Yeah. So like I'll plan in my wellness this sort of plan that I had, the positive intentions that we set. It was to get to the beach once a week because it's good for my hips, it's good for my
mental health and everything. And other days I can do the shopping, I can do the washing, I can do the laundry, I can do all the stuff that needs to be done fine. On the day that I'm supposed to go into the beach I can't get out of bed. And that's why I found this, that's why I jumped on it, I was like, hold on, why? It doesn't make any sense. It does now. Yeah, so it does make sense. Let's update your nervous system to today.
Hit update, let it download from the server, and go okay it's today and it makes sense today. Yes, but the guilt I think, the guilt I'm not feeling like I should be. I'm letting someone down, I'm not doing something. So when I express positive emotion, I experience guilt and if I do it, I hurt them. So my joy brings somebody else pain. So just be around a lot of masochists, you'll be fine.
I'll start looking. But no, seriously, I think part of, if you think about that bottom layer, the very first layer, that transformational co-regulation, that safe co-regulation. The first step beyond having it like what you're doing here is, for example, sharing that you're having a hard time getting out of bed today because you're going to the beach with the people around you, and starting to get a feel for their capacity to be with you in different states.
There's some people that will join you, "Oh my god, you want to feel bad? I'm here for you." And there's some people like, "Oh, you want to feel good?" And there's some people that are like, "Oh my god, tell me all the great stuff. And what are you grateful for? Why is your downer?" So there's just different oriented people. There's people who are more oriented towards positive affect, and there are people who are more oriented towards negative affect.
And what we want is we want to have all of our affect available to be shared. that's the first step. So if we feel like we're in relationships that all parts are welcome, well that all of a sudden there's an immediate relief, right? So the feeling of the guilt, the feeling of the shame, the feeling of the abandonment, the feeling of all that stuff decreases significantly once it's shared with someone and really hurt. Because it's what you couldn't say that before. Yeah.
Like I don't, I'm just really resisting going to the beach today. And then to set people up in your in your life to know why so they can go, "That makes sense. We're going to do something joyful." Guess what? You being happy today is not going to bum me out. And the part of you that thinks that is also welcome here. Okay. That makes sense. And then it's like, well, do the people in your life have that capacity? I think they would, if I told them what I needed.
Or even before what you needed, but yes, what you need, but also just what So you open up you, right? So we open you up, we look into your psyche and your body, and we look at like, okay, here's the emotions that are there, guilt, shame, wanting to feel positive, yearning, shutting down the yearning, whatever's there, there's all these emotions, right? Then there's like tension, stress, all the somatic stuff, and there's just like racing mind, right?
and all the mentalizing, that's what we would see. And what we wanna be able to do is go, look at this, look, look, look, here I am, this is me, here I am. Thoughts, feelings, physical sensations, ew. - Everybody's. - And someone could go, that makes sense. That's like, you're an intimate partner or close to you, that's trusted other, now what you create is what's called a shared context. And that is extremely therapeutic or corrective. - Yeah. - Like when you, that's when you feel understood.
- Yeah. - You know, inside joke, right, inside joke is a shared context around what something means. Does that make sense? - Yeah. - There are some people in my life and I go, "Yeah, yeah!" Like they know what that means. Some people are like, "What does that even mean?" Right, right, like me and my buddy Adam have this like thing, right? So I like, like that's what that shared context about not the positive stuff, but you have a hard time sharing. Like I just feel I'm not in my stomach
I feel kind of sad and I don't want to go. That's male yeah you got me right there. Well that's like that's the first layer. Very much me. Yeah you bring the positive but what do you it's like it's like you know what I'm gonna I'm gonna kind of give you kind of a gross analogy I apologize but it's like the best thing that's
coming to mind right now. It's way easier to be positive when you take a shit when you're constipated like after you take a shit you feel way better like who here has like a dog or or something. I have to think of shit that's just fucking happy and wagging their tail and all this energy and you're like did somebody poop? Right? Like they're all happy as soon as I'm talking about. Right? They're all happy. Right? So it's the same thing except for it's like out of this
hole and it's emotion and thoughts and feelings and physical sensations. Right? And you're not emotionally constipated. Right? And someone else can just be there with you in like your literal shit in your shit and like not shame you, not make you wrong, understand, validate. That is the base of all self-regulation is that faith transformational co-regulation. Without that we're just like satellites. Does that make sense? You don't have to be in my satellite. Yeah, I do.
Because yeah, my hubby works up and stuff so he's gone before I wake up. So I've spent a lot of time on my own, especially not being... So what would it mean to you to go with a note? I'd be huge probably. So maybe let him know that. Yeah, awesome. And he would. He would do that for me. And do I, if I'm feeling sort of negative, like with that co-regulation, do I just give him a call and go, "Right, this was on my calendar. I can't get myself out of bed. Yeah, help me please.
you help me?" Right? You create like a word or a shared meaning on something. Where he knows when you say this, like with people who know me really well and like my therapist and stuff like that, my code word is like I'm in the upside down. So it's like a stranger things thing. And I remember I've been feeling the upside down my whole life, but people would get so mad at me when I was in the upside down and I'm so dissociated when I'm in the upside down,
just like check the fuck out. I don't respond. I don't talk. I don't say things. Like I maybe have the capacity to blink. And it took years of therapy for me to even know that that was happening. So it was so like defense, right? And when we finally labeled it, I was able to be asked, are you in the upside down? And I could blink my eyes and I could go, and that would be like, yes. But other than that, it's like, "Hello, are you there?" Like, "Hello?" They were more mad.
And I was just further and further away. - You're the first person I've ever heard referring to something like that. And that's sort of what happened to me when I ended up in bed for all that time. Is that just, you know, people come and go, "What do you need?" I'm like, "I couldn't even." - Yeah, so if you had the context, well, there's this thing called the upside down. And when I'm the upside down, I'm nonverbal, I'm really sad, like, I'm not far away.
I feel super neglected and abandoned and alone. It'd be really helpful if you asked me to blink my eyes and tell me I'm not alone long enough to help me get out of that and break that pattern. That'd be really great, you know? Yeah. And it's like that took me so many years to deconstruct, like, what that was. Because, like, that part of me didn't even want to be discovered. Yeah. It was really good at hiding. Yeah.
Right? And that's how you have that safe co-regulation that gives... And that's affect awareness, that's somatic awareness, that's metacognition, that's a recognition of defenses, and the restructuring is relational too. It's not just inside you, it's also relational restructuring. You're like, "Hey, there's this thing that happens in me. There's this affect somatic cognitive thing that happens in me. I'm going to label it this thing and you should know about it
and here's what to do when that happens." That's a restructuring. Interpersonal restructuring. And that co-regulation will hopefully help me to actually do the thing. And then if I do the that's like enough. I've never met someone who had lowered performance when they felt hurt. Okay. Oh my god, I feel so hurt. Let me be depressed. Like I've never met that person. I've met people who are like, oh my god, I feel so hurt. You're freaking me out.
So what I heard you say is being so hurt is freaking you out. But eventually there's like a soothing moment that happens if you do someone does a good enough job listening or vice versa, right? Like being heard and having your reality acknowledged emotionally, physically, cognitively acknowledged and taken in by somebody else is highly corrective. Yeah, it is huge. Meaning it improves for your performance. Yeah.
Right? What is gaslighting? It's the intentional denial of your emotions, thoughts and somatics, right? It's like, you don't exist. That's not real. This is real on purpose to hurt someone. Yeah. Right. What's the opposite of gaslighting? Well, on purpose acknowledgement. Yeah. Awesome. Why are you smiling? Because I have a plan. That's good. I'm happy you have a plan. It's beautiful. Yeah. So good. She has a plan! We like plans around here. [music]