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What's up, man? How can we help today? Well, I wanted to to follow-up with you on the, conversation that we had regarding my, relationship situation where I, gold golden cashed my ex girlfriend. As you as you said, if it that maybe Oh, I remember. Yeah. I remember. Yeah. Yeah. So we we ended up exchanging our things, and we did have a I I did have an opportunity to apologize. Like, we talked, like you said, the mismanagement of the third party, and she
was grateful for that. She I mean, I had I kinda already done it, but, like, we talked to, you know, making it really clean and clear. Apologize for allowing some of my family scripting of, like, how my how my parents like, how I watched my parents do relationship with the codependence and and enmeshment, and how that, like, infiltrated our relationship because I I wasn't necessarily super aware of it being taking place.
And then also Yeah. And then also apologizing for, not leading us into working on the relationship through supporting it with counseling. Mhmm. Didn't really get into she she didn't really wanna do any processing. She just kinda wanted to exchange things and, like, drop it off on my porch and not see me. But the circumstance allowed for us to be able to talk. So I didn't wanna do too much, quote, unquote, processing with her. I just wanted to make these clean
apologies. So I didn't get into the individuation and differentiation thing that you had mentioned. Although, that is some really good information about how we ended up showing up by not working on the relationship as you as you had said. And there was a moment where she said, you know, I mean, I feel like we could you know, like, since we have since we've broken up and it's been this time,
she feels like the waters have cleared a little bit since some sense. And she was like, I mean, like, now we could probably do couples counseling. And I was like, yeah. Yeah. Well, I was like, yeah. I mean, we could we could enter a state of repair as you had mentioned. And quite honestly, I I would still be up for she was like, no. That's not what I'm saying. She said that's not what she wants. And in effect, she she really does wanna just move on and have so I got
crystal clear about no contacts. What do you what do you mean by that? What, you know, what is the number Hold on a second. That's that's the whole I I got confused. You're saying that she said that she would is able to do couples counseling now, but now she wants to go no contact? No. She she she just mentioned when I when I was talking about the couples counseling and apologizing for it, her
response was I mean, I asked. I was like, is that even something that you would have said yes to if we would've if I would've, like, brought that forward in a in a leadership role? And she's and she said, well, basically, I don't know. I feel like I came to this relationship with so many tools and so many things that and so much, information and podcasts and, and tools that that I I don't know what more I could have done. I don't think you were ready for what it was that I have. And
So let me understand what if I if I'm hearing you clearly. What you're telling me is that because she has tools, information, and podcasts, she thinks that she doesn't need relationship counseling. I I also see the Hold on a second. I just wanna get clear if I'm hearing it correctly. I mean, that's effectively what she when when I when I asked her, would you would you have been
open to couples counseling? Because I felt like it was kind of gonna be a no back in the day when I thought about it, and now I'm kind of asking for information after the fact, and that was her response. So and just so I'm clear, you're telling me her response was I came to this relationship with tools, information, and podcasts, and so, no, I wouldn't have done couples therapy with you because, basically, I don't need to. That's not the words you used, but that's the sense I'm getting.
Is that accurate? That is yeah. Those are not the words you used, but there there was an air of I had so many things that I was that I I I had done work. I had I had all this stuff, and it wasn't like, I don't know what more I could have done to to promote us, like, doing well, effectively. We we could've gone to a couple's counseling because that's different than having all of
the things that she had. Right. I'm just trying to make sure I'm hearing what you're saying that she said as clear as possible because she's not here to represent herself, but your takeaway was, basically, I have tools, podcasts, and information, so, no, I wouldn't have gone to couples counseling. That's kinda what I'm hearing you say. Is that accurate? That yes. Okay. So Okay. So if that if that's your takeaway, let me help you
understand something. What you have discovered is that she is an island. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And that's a really beautiful discovery because that is like, if someone said that to me, right, depending on the mood I was in, okay, right, the nice way to say something back to someone who says something like that is, well, thank you for all of the tools and information in the
podcast you're doing and see how hard you're working yourself. That's part of what makes you so attractive to me, and, frankly, what you just said to me isn't a very relational statement. Right. The tools and
podcast information that I want to build are together. So it's really beautiful that you had tools, information, and podcasts to work on your nervous system, but what I'm suggesting is that we get tools, podcasts, information, experience, and counseling to work on a two nervous system situation where we were both there. Right? Versha is, like, basically, she kind of I mean, without saying it, and again, it's hard to be I don't wanna, like, create
a triangle. But if I come into a situation where I'm saying I have tools, information, and podcasts, I'm sort of claiming this, like, personal development higher ground than I'm I'm one up than you in this way. And that's like like a, major, major, major, island red flag behavior in terms of, like, being into a relationship because a relationship will keep up no matter how many tools, podcast information you have. Yeah. Yeah. Especially if you have tools,
podcast information. Because we've heard what tools, podcast information you have, and it gets even good. Because 95% of the tools, podcast information is, like, avoidant behavior. The the the the American Instagram, TikTok therapy self help world leans so avoidant in its tools, podcasts, information. Okay? Just so we're super clear. So, like
like, here's what I'll tell you. The part of you that didn't ask early in the relationship was on some level intuiting that, like, this person is probably an island, and now it's explicit. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yep. %, bro. %. I mean, it was a good conversation to have because it got brought me some clarity because I've been, like, cultivating and creating this place, building a house for this relationship that we were gonna have and this Mhmm. Eventual marriage that we were
gonna engage in. And it's like she killed it so fast. She just bulldozed it. And, like Yeah. The the untangling of my heart and all of the stuff that I was willing to compromise on for the sake of the fact that I loved her, there's a long list of things Oh, yeah. That I didn't that I didn't care about because I loved her, and I was willing to say yes to all those things. Yeah. And I'm realizing that she was not in the same she was not on the same, like, x y coordinate
pattern at all. So, yeah, the way here's what I'll say is it this will probably be the, like, the most neutral way I can say it. It seems as if she has a one nervous system orientation. Yeah. Because let me ask you a question. You have two people in a relationship. How do you know if it's a good relationship or not? If both people are engaged, I mean, first and foremost, I'd say. Basically. I'll give it slightly simpler language. If both people agree it's a
good relationship, then it is. But what happens if one person thinks it's good and the other person doesn't? Is it a good relationship? No. Okay. So if your partner has a problem, that's your problem too. Right. If you want a good relationship, unless you want a relationship oriented around just one nervous system, and that's not a relationship.
So that's what you mean by one nervous system oriented? Correct. If one person's appraisal of a relationship is that it's good and the other person says it's not good and you go with the person who says it's good, then the entire relationship is oriented towards that person and vice versa. Right? Yeah. The only way you know if you have a good relationship is if both people agree. Otherwise, it's just gonna be Philip's assessment of two people's experiences, which is 50% of
the picture. Right. But to have a healthy, happy relationship, both parties have to agree. Yeah. Let me ask you another question. Let me ask you another question while we're on the topic. Okay? Let's just say that one person is jealous in a relationship. What does that mean? Well, something's wrong with the relationship. That's right. I mean And whose responsibility is it to help that person not feel jealous? I mean, I I think there's probably responsibility on both parties, but maybe
more one than the other. And who would that be, you think? The the person that, I don't know. That's a tough question. The person that's I know. It's I mean, the the person that's feeling jealous definitely has some responsibility and understanding why. Yeah. Both people have responsibility, but who's who's, like, whose responsibility is it? What do you think? I guess it would be the you gotta own the feelings, so the person who is jealous needs is more responsible. I
thought you would say that. What if I told you that's horseshit? I mean, that's that that that's why I was waffling because I was like, I don't know if I I don't know if Can I tell you why? Let me can I tell you why? Okay? Now I'm gonna tell you why with the I think for you I did help. I I need you to understand a premise I'm operating from. Okay? I'm operating from the premise of secure functioning principles. Not insecure functioning, not avoidant functioning, not disorganized, secure
functioning principles. Okay? In secure functioning principles, if your partner has a problem, you have a problem. Yeah. And you are just as responsible as they are for fixing it no matter what it is. Their needs are your needs, and that is reciprocated between both parties. It's not one or the other. So if you have a problem, I have a problem. And if I have a problem, you have a problem. And guess what? It's inconvenient. And so is being in a relationship.
Right? Yeah. But it's not like, oh, you're jealous. Go fix yourself. That's dismissive avoidant. Because there's something that person's doing consciously or unconsciously that's causing that jealousy, that's making someone feel like, oh, I'm not a priority. And if you care about somebody, you wanna understand what that is and work together as a team to tackle the problem.
It's very easy. Like, don't be jealous. What are you talking about? Everything's fine. No. Dismissive, avoidant, not relational, not secure functioning. Yeah. Secure functioning is hold on. Let me lean into that with you. I I really want you to feel like you're a priority. Wait. What? Because we need to be removing as many threats as possible in a relationship dynamic, and both people wanna be working on that. And by the way, I have a hardcore me abandonment wound. Like, I
get jealous of inanimate objects. Right? Like, someone pays attention to a plate more than me. I'm like, I'm over here. Right? And it was cute. This morning, I was in a SoulCycle class this morning, and, the the the lead instructor, I really respect him. His wife was next to me. We're towards the begin we're in the front, but, like, on the very end. And which is not that far away because it's a small room. But he comes over
to her, and he's like, you're all the way over here, babe? And I was like, oh, he has abandonment problems too, you know, because he wanted her, like, two or three bikes closer, you know? And I thought that was really cute. Right? And, like, to me, that's like secure functioning where it's like I can express my neediness and security because everyone's needy. Yeah. Everyone's needy. Right?
So we have to take the other person's needs as our own in the secure functioning, and both people do that, and that creates fairness and justice. If it's just one person doing that, you're repeating childhood patterns. Yeah. I can see that. Right? So if you if so if if somebody comes to somebody and says the relationship's suffering, I think we need counseling, and the other person's like, hey, bro. I got tools, informations, and podcasts. You're not even there in the
consideration. Yeah. I mean, it was it's it's in hindsight that that she's reflecting on that, but that that, you know, that was her answer. I get that. Right. But my point is is that, like, there's a lack of awareness that, like, if my partner is in distress, I have a problem too. Yeah. Especially if you're like, I'm gonna marry this person. Like, yo, dude. That might be like the mother of your children. How she shows up to you is how she's gonna show up to them. Right? So it's like, oh, what
are you gonna do? Tell your kids to go get some podcasts? Like, no. Like, no. Right. Right? So it's like you want someone who's gonna lean in with you, and then you gotta lean in. Because if you've been more anxious and you're kinda chasing the avoidant people, if you get someone who leans in, sometimes you go avoidant. So it's about mutually leaning in. Yeah.
Right? The term that I think, my friend, Natasha Automo, came up with this term, emotional ambition, right, of leaning into a relationship, both people. That is the business right there. Yeah. So we've we've got no contact for sure. I got some clarity on that. That's good. But but based on everything you said now, like, I'm actually, like, happy that you got this clarity because now you can move on
to someone who is in an island, hopefully. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've it it's it's created some piece the piece of processing where I was like, so, hey. Is it is it is it me or is it relationship that's the problem? Like, is it is it the saddle or is it the horse that you can't get on board with? And she's like, it's an irrelevant question because I've I've decided to lay that down. I'm effectively giving that to the lord, like marriage, relationship. I'm not working on
that stuff. I'm doing me. So that that was helpful and, like, a redirection for me to be like, okay. This is, like, there is this is dead in the water. Yeah. So I wanted to follow-up with you regarding that. Thank you for that. Thank good good job. I gained the clarity. Yeah. And also for owning your part, like, your part of the street is clean, which is, like, that's some real man shit. Yeah. It did it did it was interesting for there to be no reciprocation of any kind. Like, apology.
I wasn't asking for one, but, you know, there's plenty that's that's on the other side of the street that hasn't been necessarily accounted for, which is But that's not for you. That's not for you. And, also, that gives you if look. If your side of the street is clean, you're gonna mourn. You're gonna have grief. There's gonna be loss, but you respect yourself. Does that make sense? Yeah. And you know you're taking care of you, and
you've actually, like, leveled up in that way. So you're leaving this relationship, not repeating a pattern. Well, keep putting it in bro, and great job even though it's hard. You're doing really, really beautiful work. So beautiful.